There is no fuel (east coast U.S). How will that affect prices of (all) boats?

[hannibalhouse 33]

Big picture.  All recreational toys will be parked.  Many “Covid boats” will be dumped on market, no buyers.  RVs, jet skis, sailboats and what all.  Pass the popcorn.

[hannibalhouse 33]

'Out of gas:' Drivers in the Southeast are scrambling for gas as stations run empty

Stephanie Asymkos

·Reporter

Tue, May 11, 2021, 1:01 PM

 

 

Gas outages are spreading across the Southeast as motorists rush to fill up their cars days after the biggest U.S. fuel pipeline temporarily shut down following a cyberattack.

While industry experts try to reassure the public, saying hoarding or stockpiling gas will only exacerbate the issue, drivers appear to be panicking. Both the governors of North Carolina and Georgia issued states of emergency.

“We ran out. We were out of gas before it all started,” a manager of a Shell gas station in Robbinsville, N.C., told Yahoo Money, referring to Gov. Roy Cooper's(D-NC) executive order on Monday. “We got an email saying that it could be without gas [for] extended periods of time because of the pipeline shut down.”

 

A view of empty gas pumps covered by bags in Charlotte, North Carolina, September 29, 2008. REUTERS/Chris Keane (UNITED STATES)

The worst of it appears concentrated in Virginia where 7.6% of stations are out of gas; North Carolina where 5.8% of stations have run out; and Georgia where 4.06% of stations are reportedly empty, according to Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy.

Gas demand across the U.S. jumped nearly 20% week over week on Monday, with a more than a 40% increase in Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. The national average hit $2.97 per gallon, matching the highest since 2018, GasBuddy found.

 

U.S. pipeline infrastructure for Colonial Pipeline. (Graphic: Colonial Pipeline)

The volume of those desperate to fill up their tanks is also overwhelming GasBuddy, an app used to find gas. As of Tuesday morning, a company spokesperson announced it was powering down “non-vital services” to accommodate the “intense traffic.”

The scramble comes after the Colonial Pipeline halted delivery over the weekend after a ransomware hack by a Russian criminal network. It has yet to announce when its mainline will be fully operational. The affected pipeline runs from Texas to New York and delivers about 45% of all fuel to the East Coast.

Photos and reports from the Southeast are flooding Twitter, showing long stretches of cars waiting for turns at the pump with some drivers bringing gas containers.

 

 

[Israel Hands 1,242]

Around here in ENC it has the feel of a moderate pre-hurricane panic. But there is still gasoline to be found.

This will all be over by next week.

 

[Sail4beer 3,414]

39 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

This will all be over by next week.

 ...Said the horsewhip salesman...

[Commercial Boater 126]

A great time to practice sailing on and off of my mooring!

[Snaggletooth 5,170]

Ime am thickeng increasse of 25 - 35 centes per gallone of dissplacemente...........                     

[Israel Hands 1,242]

21 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

 ...Said the horsewhip salesman...

Huh?  Not selling anything, just trying to tamp down the panic that has led to this shortage. 

The only dog I have in this fight is a small business that includes some contracted trucking, and my own fuel consumption commuting to work.  In speaking with trucking lines with this morning, trying to gauge the situation, the consensus was that supply should be okay so long as pipeline is back up and running by end of week.

[Sail4beer 3,414]

Its a bit of humor.

It’s what the horsewhip buggy people said about the automobile. Thought it was a fad.

They were out of business in a few years!

 

[Israel Hands 1,242]

I knew the ref but missed the point.    But I agree that longer term, our current system has problems!  

One thing I think is already changing is that a large % of young people living in cities don't feel the need to own cars. My kids find themselves driving a lot less than they expected, and are happy to Uber around to events on weekends. So I'm not so sure the big shift will be to electric vehicles, so much as it will be away from vehicle ownership entirely in cities.

[h20man 70]

I suspect that we have a bit longer then a week.  The compromise of the systems is far greater then they at first let on.

It is CRIMINAL that in the United States, the land of silicone and software (and silicone implants), the government (knowing that it was a matter of time before this was going to happen) has allowed the insecurity in the information sector.

The problem is not just the pipleline...  IT (Information Technology) is behind everything.

The United States (and probably the whole western worlds) energy transmission network is compromised. No way to fix. So the response by the Americans is to attempt to plant cyber bombs into the Russian Grid... to 'stalemate' and ensure no issues...

I know the above sounds like a conspiracy theory from the dark web.. But the link leads to a NYTIMES story...

The big problem is that security is an afterthought.... instead of a design consideration.

But security is unimportant.. until it is.

Kind of like safety on a sailboat... 

 

sorry about the rant..

 

[h20man 70]

For those that want (or care) to know more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/politics/russian-hacking-government.html

 

[SloopJonB 12,586]

I guess we can expect prices to rise in Vancouver.

[Ishmael 10,598]

25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I guess we can expect prices to rise in Vancouver.

Gas has actually dropped by a couple of cents here, but any emergency anywhere will drive up prices here, like it always does.

[Caliente 25]

This is a Black Swan event designed to prop up the price of oil. Expect more to come, as the inescapable rampant inflation will be blamed on energy costs/covid and not the frenzy of the money printing presses. People are working from home, the economy is in free-fall, people are being paid by the government to stay home and not work as occurred during the Weimar Republic, and the price of oil goes... up? One can explain all of this insanity on the central banks manipulating the currency at the end of a debt cycle. 

There is a glut of oil... and government debt.

[Mid 4,409]

[Borax Johnson 107]

An old adage from the investment biz: "the first news is never the worst news". "Bad news always comes on the installment pan". Plan on weeks or months if they ware saying days.

Nothing to see here until the tanks run dry, the FBI says we are stuck (yet again) and Washington DC goes radio silent. 

[Keith 1,500]

yawn

[El Borracho 2,626]

1 hour ago, Caliente said:

This is a Black Swan event designed to prop up the price of oil. Expect more to come, as the inescapable rampant inflation will be blamed on energy costs/covid and not the frenzy of the money printing presses. People are working from home, the economy is in free-fall, people are being paid by the government to stay home and not work as occurred during the Weimar Republic, and the price of oil goes... up? One can explain all of this insanity on the central banks manipulating the currency at the end of a debt cycle. 

There is a glut of oil... and government debt.

I'm confused. I thought Soros or the Rothschilds would be behind this? Work them in somehow and you'll really have something.

[SloopJonB 12,586]

38 minutes ago, Borracho said:

1 hour ago, Caliente said:

This is a Black Swan event designed to prop up the price of oil. Expect more to come, as the inescapable rampant inflation will be blamed on energy costs/covid and not the frenzy of the money printing presses. People are working from home, the economy is in free-fall, people are being paid by the government to stay home and not work as occurred during the Weimar Republic, and the price of oil goes... up? One can explain all of this insanity on the central banks manipulating the currency at the end of a debt cycle. 

There is a glut of oil... and government debt.

I'm confused. I thought Soros or the Rothschilds would be behind this? Work them in somehow and you'll really have something.

The Jewish space lasers caused the pipeline shutdown?

[Rain Man 1,971]

This is like toilet paper in the pandemic.  There never was a shortage of toilet paper, there was a shortage of intelligent people listening to the suppliers telling them there was no shortage.  So, off they went to greedy up all the supplies because somebody heard somebody else say something.

This is the human race at its most pathetic.

At the first hint of a possible shortage reported in the news, an artificial shortage is created by human stupidity.

[apophenia 263]

Quote

"Our goal is to make money and not creating problems for society," DarkSide wrote on its website.

Those hackers should have made like a Venetian and bought the Doge instead.

 

[Israel Hands 1,242]

4 hours ago, Rain Man said:

This is like toilet paper in the pandemic.  There never was a shortage of toilet paper, there was a shortage of intelligent people listening to the suppliers telling them there was no shortage.  So, off they went to greedy up all the supplies because somebody heard somebody else say something.

This is the human race at its most pathetic.

At the first hint of a possible shortage reported in the news, an artificial shortage is created by human stupidity.

^^^This.  I must say that the local news here in ENC added, ahem, gasoline to the fire on this issue. Yesterday most of the local gas stations were out of gas, and there were lines at the remaining ones. This morning I fueled up (mid-grade and premium were available) at the local Speedway, no lines.  I think that Speedway and Sheetz stations must have received deliveries overnight.

[Blue Crab 2,454]

5 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

^^^This.  I must say that the local news here in ENC added, ahem, gasoline to the fire on this issue. Yesterday most of the local gas stations were out of gas, and there were lines at the remaining ones. This morning I fueled up (mid-grade and premium were available) at the local Speedway, no lines.  I think that Speedway and Sheetz stations must have received deliveries overnight.

Hope you're correct. Our Speedway ran dry Monday. I filled the lawnmower and it ran like crap all afternoon: doubtless got some water at the bitter bottom. The concern here isn't about the price hikes but availability at all.  I was hoping to drive to Hilton Head next week ... maybe not happening.

[Israel Hands 1,242]

1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

 I was hoping to drive to Hilton Head next week ... maybe not happening.

Was thinking to drive to Charleston this weekend. A contact said there didn't seem to be a shortage at all there. He attributed that to Charleston's having a terminal (?)

[Midfleet 27]

35 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Hope you're correct. Our Speedway ran dry Monday. I filled the lawnmower and it ran like crap all afternoon: doubtless got some water at the bitter bottom. The concern here isn't about the price hikes but availability at all.  I was hoping to drive to Hilton Head next week ... maybe not happening.

I was in Hilton Head yesterday. Every station at the north end had lines out onto the road, making 278 a bigger shit show than normal...  Good luck.

[hannibalhouse 33]

“This will all be over by next week.“

That is comforting to know.  With 65% of gas stations in NC out of gas.

[climenuts 240]

7 minutes ago, hannibalhouse said:

“This will all be over by next week.“

That is comforting to know.  With 65% of gas stations in NC out of gas.

I think that number is closer to 6.5% not 65%.

[hannibalhouse 33]

From The WASHINGTON POST:

Gas shortages intensify in Southeast, with 65 percent of North Carolina stations now dry

[Monkey 2,375]

1 hour ago, climenuts said:

I think that number is closer to 6.5% not 65%.

Nope. The nutters did their hoarding thing. 

[JohnMB 560]

3 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Nope. The nutters did their hoarding thing. 

It's a sad day when the CPSC has to point out that storing gasoline in a plastic bag is a bad idea.

[bridhb 918]

NE Florida, at least west of the St Johns, seemed to be sort of normal for pre rush hour.  

[sailman 412]

2 minutes ago, bridhb said:

NE Florida, at least west of the St Johns, seemed to be sort of normal for pre rush hour.  

Florida isn’t on the pipeline, they get theirs by sea.

[B dock 88]

Lots of EV charging stations between Outer banks and Hilton Head.  Food for thought. We need to sever our hydrocarbon dependence, the sooner the better.  I am exclusively EV now.  PGE gives me money each year, I get a break on taxes, and I can drive in the Carpool lane.  Really no maintenance  accept tires and wipers.  It has an insane amount of torque, and cheap to lease.  If you are a two car family living in a reasonable suburban /urban area there are really few good reasons not to lease or own one now.

[bridhb 918]

1 minute ago, sailman said:

Florida isn’t on the pipeline, they get theirs by sea.

Yep, but watching the news this morning, there were stations in FL out.  Guess people are freaking out in some places.  Gov relaxed "summer blend" and truck weight requirements.

[Snaggletooth 5,170]

18 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Pipeline comes back online or came back online at 5 PM.

wiche time zone?

[Snaggletooth 5,170]

15 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

22 minutes ago, B dock said:

Lots of EV charging stations between Outer banks and Hilton Head.  Food for thought. We need to sever our hydrocarbon dependence, the sooner the better.  I am exclusively EV now.  PGE gives me money each year, I get a break on taxes, and I can drive in the Carpool lane.  Really no maintenance  accept tires and wipers.  It has an insane amount of torque, and cheap to lease.  If you are a two car family living in a reasonable suburban /urban area there are really few good reasons not to lease or own one now.

You do know that isn't even remotely realistic, right?

It isn't necessarily about motor vehicles but all the other things in life that are petro-chemically based or dependent.

Our you sayeng the 'rose collorded' glassis our made of petrochimicalle plastices?

[B dock 88]

I agree reducing hydrocarbon dependence is going to be a huge challenge, but given the the immense long-term costs and threats to human survival, it is something we need to strive for. You have to start somewhere.  The next biggest target is the petroleum businesses who have been lying to the world for 80 years about its impact on the earth.  We should help them pivot to renewable resources but a lot people will see that as a big rich person/corporate buy off.  I personally have not sacrificed any convenience with my EV switch, in fact it has improved the quality of my life. I have been trying to consciously reduce my plastic consumption, it makes you notice how much of our consumer goods utilize hydrocarbons in one form or another.  I refuse to be fatalistic and will continue to use my vote, my wallet, and my behavior to influence change.

[Schnappi 126]

1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

It's a sad day when the CPSC has to point out that storing gasoline in a plastic bag is a bad idea.

 

Home Depot buckets are the way to go.

[Dex Sawash 722]

Pumped a total of 10 gallons out of 3 different junk cars at work today. We've had a rash of cars needing  major repairs that have been abandoned the last few months. The crushing man was supposed to show up to clear out a dozen cars last week. Haven't syphoned wrecks since Katrina.

[kent_island_sailor 5,289]

No problem buying gas here and the pipeline is back on.

[PeterRoss 35]

I left Vero Beach yesterday 2 pm headed to RI. Full tank 550 mile range. Topped off first station I could see from the highway, exit 3 Georgia. No lines,  yet.

 Drove to Lumberton NC and grabbed a hotel. Every station I was able to see from the highway showed normal activity, no lines, yet.

 5:30 AM tried to fill up at station across street from motel. All pumps, out of order. I asked an employee who was putting yellow socks of the pumps if they were out. Nope, pumps were really out of order. They had plenty of gas.

 Drove across local highway and to next station. No lines. Pumped gas and left. 550 mile range would easily get me out of the "hyped danger zone."

Final fill up Maryland House. Got home at 4:30 pm.

 Biggest issue on 95 in the SouthEast is the dangerous new speeds and the incredible high number of Left Lane Lizards holding up traffic. 

 Station employee at Loves said gas just travels above ground like the good old days.

[PaulK 596]

Colonial now reports pipeline has been restarted.  " It will take several days for the product delivery supply chain to return to normal ". 

[toddster 927]

2 hours ago, PeterRoss said:

 

 Station employee at Loves said gas just travels above ground like the good old days.

From the terminals to the stations, it goes by truck.  In between refineries and terminals is where the large volume stuff kicks in.  Ours comes by ship and goes up the river in big barges.  

 

 

So I suppose piracy is an option...

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,151]

On 5/11/2021 at 5:33 PM, h20man said:

I suspect that we have a bit longer then a week.  The compromise of the systems is far greater then they at first let on.

It is CRIMINAL that in the United States, the land of silicone and software (and silicone implants), the government (knowing that it was a matter of time before this was going to happen) has allowed the insecurity in the information sector.

The problem is not just the pipleline...  IT (Information Technology) is behind everything.

The United States (and probably the whole western worlds) energy transmission network is compromised. No way to fix. So the response by the Americans is to attempt to plant cyber bombs into the Russian Grid... to 'stalemate' and ensure no issues...

I know the above sounds like a conspiracy theory from the dark web.. But the link leads to a NYTIMES story...

The big problem is that security is an afterthought.... instead of a design consideration.

But security is unimportant.. until it is.

Kind of like safety on a sailboat... 

 

sorry about the rant..

 

that's got to be one of the dumbest statements ever... so you're expecting the feds to scan every email for a threat ?  a lot of the hackers tools were developed by the US government..   and blaming the IT folks because some dumbshit opened a link or attachment, lol... you must be in managment...  clueless to the end..

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,151]

[h20man 70]

8 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

that's got to be one of the dumbest statements ever... so you're expecting the feds to scan every email for a threat ?  a lot of the hackers tools were developed by the US government..   and blaming the IT folks because some dumbshit opened a link or attachment, lol... you must be in managment...  clueless to the end..

Wow..  I realize I was not clear if that is what you think.   I am not expecting the feds to open every email for a threat.. Yet... if the government can legislate 'goodness' by ensuring that an oil refinery can not dump toxic waste into sewers...  or dump barrels of DDT into Los Angeles Federal Waters (ok, they did not have legislation prohibiting this in the past.. but now one cannot dump toxic waste offshore)...  or the Government can mandate seat belts and airbags in cars.....  They should also start mandating good practice in IT deployment and design.

Just as 70 years ago it was no big deal to sell cars with no seat belts...  as society realized the drawback and societal cost for the lack of safety.... The government legislated safety.

The tragic part of IT is that most people have NO idea of how it works... and how it should be deployed.  Turns out the Colonial pipeline was looking for a IT security manager prior to this breach... but it was never a priority.....

 

 

I am not in favour of a nanny state that shall tell all of us what to do...

Yet... there should be certain actions that each individual/group is prohibited from doing, if it is detrimental to society as a whole... 

If  a company is providing a needed service to society... it should follow best practices.  Best practices are what a good sailor does as well. 

Not just making sure your kit is in good form, checked and ready... YET ALSO having a plan in case something goes wrong.. (like having a life raft that has been serviced and checked on the boat, as well as having a ditch bag.. ).

This preparedness was lacking in the colonial pipeline debacle... 

Just as many on this forum can see a disaster in the making (like Hot Rod and his homebuilt 65 by 32 foot catamaran ) the lack of preparedness in companies using IT is a disaster in the making.  

Anyway.. hope this helps clarify what I was thinking...

[h20man 70]

@Grande Mastere Dreade

In case you it helps you see that Colonial had some serious issues with an absolute lack of 'best practices' here is a quote that you may find enlightening.

 

from: Tech Audit of Colonial Pipeline Found ‘Glaring’ Problems

Quote

An outside audit three years ago of the major East Coast pipeline company hit by a cyberattack found “atrocious” information management practices and “a patchwork of poorly connected and secured systems,” its author told The Associated Press.

“We found glaring deficiencies and big problems,” said Robert F. Smallwood, whose consulting firm delivered an 89-page report in January 2018 after a six-month audit. “I mean an eighth-grader could have hacked into that system.”

To be fair, they claim to have done some upgrades.. yet the lack of having someone in charge of cybersecurity (proven by the posted job offering over a month ago) is a serious red flag.

[Santanasailor 643]

15 hours ago, sailman said:

Florida isn’t on the pipeline, they get theirs by sea.

Maybe so, but people were panic buying on Tuesday evening. We had to leave on Wednesday and our little truck shocked us with the mileage it obtained on the drive home.  (By actual measurement 23+ MPG, pretty good for a V-8 half ton) 

Still between Northwest Florida and North Central Louisiana, we saw no evidence of people lining up at the service stations or any panic buying.  (Brenda did see on the internment that there was a problem in Gulf Shore, but we don’t go there.).

[bridhb 918]

18 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Our you sayeng the 'rose collorded' glassis our made of petrochimicalle plastices?

I remember some professor I had, way back when, during the Carter gas line time, saying something about oil was too valuable for use in other things to burn as fuel.

[Santanasailor 643]

1 hour ago, bridhb said:

I remember some professor I had, way back when, during the Carter gas line time, saying something about oil was too valuable for use in other things to burn as fuel.

During those years I saw that quoted several time in several places as well.  Today, however, No one ever seems to consider any alternative than permanent rare earth batteries. 

[bridhb 918]

Friend of mine and his wife just stopped by to pick up their RV to go to a motorcycle race in Savannah, GA this weekend, that was canceled due to the gas situation, then put back on as things are improving.  Anyway, she use to work as a controller on that pipeline. Had no idea that they sent the different products through the same pipeline with the desired product being diverted to the correct storage tanks as it comes in.  The small "mixed" quantity gets diverted to a tank for reprocessing.  I imagine there is a lot of opportunity to screw with that system!

[Israel Hands 1,242]

10 minutes ago, Santana20AE said:

 Today, however, No one ever seems to consider any alternative than permanent rare earth batteries. 

Well at least we can feel good here about using wind for our sailboats.

4 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Had no idea that they sent the different products through the same pipeline with the desired product being diverted to the correct storage tanks as it comes in.  The small "mixed" quantity gets diverted to a tank for reprocessing. 

Yep. Proof that retail gasoline is virtually the same across the brands, when comparing like products.

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,151]

when you fill 5 jerry cans put them in your POS and then light up a cig..

[IStream 3,416]

19 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

when you fill 5 jerry cans put them in your POS and then light up a cig..

Nature is healing.

[CapDave 214]

3 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

No one ever seems to consider any alternative than permanent rare earth batteries. 

That's not even wrong.....if you worked on it for a while, it might rise to being wrong, but maybe not...

[apophenia 263]

A classic documentary on oil pipeline hacking techniques:
 

 

[slap 978]

8 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

Well at least we can feel good here about using wind for our sailboats.

Yep. Proof that retail gasoline is virtually the same across the brands, when comparing like products.

As I understand it the basic gas is the same - it's the additives that are different between brands.

[Marcjsmith 1,006]

challenge for the day.

buy 5 gallons of gas, one sheet of 3/4" plywood and a box of 9mm hollow points... for less than 100 bucks....

i don't get the panic. either.  its not like the tank farms went dry overnight.  I could see if you were down to a 1/4 of tank and had things to do and places to be.  Ok lets go buy some gas.  but folks filling up garbage bags?  Please dear god let darwin win some....

 

[Blue Crab 2,454]

Darwin is mighty busy clearing out the anti-vaxxers.

[ryley 683]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:48 PM, Caliente said:

This is a Black Swan event designed to prop up the price of oil.

it can't be a black swan *and* designed. 

[Blue Crab 2,454]

7 hours ago, ryley said:

it can't be a black swan *and* designed. 

I googled it! 

[LionessRacing 670]

Local stations in MB were quickly out of gas, but still had diesel this morning. I was able to get a tank at a Circle K and was last at the pump as they were down to the level where you would be getting water with your gas. 

The idiots have filled their available storage, and the resupply is happening overnight as normal. 

Just take this as an object lesson on critical supplies and plan accordingly. 

Those who prattle about EV's should think about how vulnerable the Grid is.

Those who use sufficient fuel in their sailboats to care have my sympathy, we have a 5 mile motor to/from the ocean, so we use about 1/2 gal each way, with a 45 gal tank, I might need fuel next year

 

[Grande Mastere Dreade 4,151]

so now that all the shit has settled down..  I hope that all the gas hoarders who bought at inflated prices get to take a bath in their gas as prices drop down...      in fact , it was pretty much a hoax... the shortages that is..

Quote

The cyber attack that shutdown the Colonial pipeline causing a gas panic and stoking fears of gasoline shortages, didn’t actually shut down the pipeline. It impacted the billing system at the Colonial Pipeline Co., which shut it down because they were worried about how they’d collect payments.

Yes, the fuel-carrying pipeline was shut down last week in order to prevent a company that is entrusted with what should be a public utility from enduring an accounting headache.

 

[Blue Crab 2,454]

10 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

so now that all the shit has settled down..  I hope that all the gas hoarders who bought at inflated prices get to take a bath in their gas as prices drop down...      in fact , it was pretty much a hoax... the shortages that is..

 

Plus gas gets old fast

[Breamerly 110]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:43 AM, hannibalhouse said:

Big picture.  All recreational toys will be parked.  Many “Covid boats” will be dumped on market, no buyers.  RVs, jet skis, sailboats and what all.  Pass the popcorn.

This is, in retrospect, an awesome prediction. 

Pass the popcorn folks, this is going to be an epic shutdown of monumentally epic proportions.

[Blue Crab 2,454]

I bumped my trip to Hilton Head til tomorrow and rented a car with super mileage rather than use my crap mileage truck. This am 60% of area stations had gas. We shall see.