Jump to content

Repowering RIB, want more HP


Recommended Posts

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We used a tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke on a Achilles 3m air floor (rated for either 6 or 8hp).

Being able to plane 4 people is nice. We managed not to flip it, but the boy child and I went close.

An engine only puts out as much hp as you twist your wrist. It's torque that puts the most force on the boat, so don't give it full noise at low speed.

You'll be fine. Or not, up to you really.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

https://www.readysetboat.com/honda-4-and-5hp-to-6hp-upgrade-carburetor.html
 

An easy way to get a little more power

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 thoughts... it's relatively easy to reinforce the transom without adding hardly any weight.

And the prop. If the engine can hit full revs with the boat loaded, the prop is not putting all the engines HP into the water.

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another low cost  almost no weight option is Doel Fin or equal attached to the outboard.  No experience with RIB, but mad a big difference in time to plane on our small fishing boat

https://www.amazon.com/Davis-Doel-Fin-Outboard-Outdrive-Stabilizer/dp/B0014490TS/ref=asc_df_B0014490TS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312430092407&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10980910939462837072&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007828&hvtargid=pla-451595092777&psc=1

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

The crazy bit was going 4 stroke for weight and look at its prop size.

This.

5 hours ago, Se7en said:

We used a tohatsu 9.8 2 stroke on a Achilles 3m air floor (rated for either 6 or 8hp).

Tohatsu make the 2 stroke blocks for all manufacturers. If you can't buy 2 strokes new now due to recent emmision regulation changes buy second hand. Parts will be available for decades, they sit on every small fishing boat in Asia and the developing world.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link to the Honda upgrade.  I will definitely do that in the meantime.

I have my eye on the Tohatsu 9.8 2-stroke, but am finding its hard to find used.  Will keep my eyes peeled.  Buying a new one seems out of reach with the closest ones being sold in the Caribbean.

On the flip side, the 4-stroke Tohastu 9.8 weighs in at 82 lbs.  With a max rating of 70lbs on the dinghy, will the extra 12lbs really cause a problem?  Or is this a diminishing returns problem with the added weight on the stern?

Link to post
Share on other sites

2.4m RIBs are pretty squirrely on plane. They planing surface is very short. So proceed with caution.

Depending on your weight 8 HP might be enough for 2 medium size adults.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been inspected by LEO and USCG more in dinghies/skiffs than in the mother-ships and at least once they looked at the HP rating...  

4YLC2_AS01?$mdmain$

:ph34r:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha. Americans and cops/CG

The only time in Canada I have been inspected by anybody - it was Fisheries officials who came alongside in very remote BC coast. They wanted to know if we were fishing and if so, did we have a license. We were not but did have a license. Didn't actually ask to see it. Then gave us a 12 lb salmon they had seized from someone else.

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Ha. Americans and cops/CG

The only time in Canada I have been inspected by anybody - it was Fisheries officials who came alongside in very remote BC coast. They wanted to know if we were fishing and if so, did we have a license. We were not but did have a license. Didn't actually ask to see it. Then gave us a 12 lb salmon they had seized from someone else.

sounds like socialism... can we get some of that?

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

On the flip side, the 4-stroke Tohastu 9.8 weighs in at 82 lbs.  With a max rating of 70lbs on the dinghy, will the extra 12lbs really cause a problem?  Or is this a diminishing returns problem with the added weight on the stern?

Comparing prop size is a good torque rule of thumb.

Small prop 4 stroke = less torque but and at lower revs/less fuel

Large prop 2 stroke = more torque but at higher revs/more fuel

Then factor in the motor weight difference

2 stroke will always win hands down.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the 6hp carb mentioned above plus a Doel-Fin or equivalent cavitation plate wing (if you don't already have one) might get you what you need for less than $200. You'll gain 20% more horsepower and those wings really do help, especially for lighter boats.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, IStream said:

I think the 6hp carb mentioned above plus a Doel-Fin or equivalent cavitation plate wing (if you don't already have one) might get you what you need for less than $200. You'll gain 20% more horsepower and those wings really do help, especially for lighter boats.

Yea, that's definitely my first choice and approach.  I'd rather not buy another engine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Zonker said:

Ha. Americans and cops/CG

The only time in Canada I have been inspected by anybody - it was Fisheries officials who came alongside in very remote BC coast. They wanted to know if we were fishing and if so, did we have a license. We were not but did have a license. Didn't actually ask to see it. Then gave us a 12 lb salmon they had seized from someone else.

Only time I've been "inspected" was when we were the only boat in Roscoe in September, with our prawn trap way outside in the deep water.  My wife was having a warm shower on the deck au naturel when a CG vessel steamed past the entrance on the outside - even though they were quite far away she scurried back inside when she realized they were there.  Next thing we know they are alongside reminding us how to properly identify ourselves on the float bouy for our prawn trap.  Yes, we had a license too.  I forget what we did wrong, no phone number or something.

I think they just wanted a closer look.  

Shouldn't this thread be in CA?

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

Hope you don't plan to get into any accidents, the insurance company may not be keen on paying out if you've a larger than rated o/b on the back (new carbie and fins don't count!)

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, sailak said:

I have been inspected by LEO and USCG more in dinghies/skiffs than in the mother-ships and at least once they looked at the HP rating...  

:ph34r:

Luckily the Tohatsu 6hp, 8 hp and 9.8 hp are all the same unit, with just the stickers on the cowl to identify them. If the previous owner was to have swapped the stickers, how were you to know?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe nobody has suggested a Rootes blower, or a modest turbo kit.  

This forum doesn't have as many gearheads as I had hoped.  

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2021 at 3:34 AM, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

I have a 15 HP 2-stroke on my RIB. The boat has a max power rating AND a max weight rating. If your boat is old and rating were done with two strokes in mind, you very much can go overweight at the rated HP with a 4-stroke. Conversely a newer boat rated for heavier 4-strokes might well have been rated for more under the old formulas. So TLDR; going from 6 hp 4-stroke to 9 hp 2-stroke is not something that would overly concern me. YMMV

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

I can't believe nobody has suggested a Rootes blower, or a modest turbo kit.  

This forum doesn't have as many gearheads as I had hoped.  

 

this makes me feel like i have failed my people. forgive me.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:
10 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

I can't believe nobody has suggested a Rootes blower, or a modest turbo kit.  

This forum doesn't have as many gearheads as I had hoped.  

 

this makes me feel like i have failed my people. forgive me.

As much as I love talking about Root blowers, or even better, seeing pictures, it does not seem like something that goes with outboards.

FB- Doug

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

This forum doesn't have as many gearheads as I had hoped.

Speaking of gear heads, I was talking to a 'aircraft that have piston engines' gearhead.

Came away now knowing that many piston engine aircraft engines in recent times have been simply auto engines and he listed Mercedes, Porche, Toyota and Honda etc with only the auto anciliaries removed, just like marinised diesel tractor, truck engines etc. One even had a cast iron, not alloy block.

Then he said some were diesel auto engines so they could run cheaper and more readily available diesel fuel, NOT avgas, had less engine controls and a lot easier to start in cold climates simply with glow plugs, not standalone tarmac heater/blowers that avgas apparently needs when its cold.

Then the ones that were completely new often reverted to tried and tested and simple design approaches from the 60's, as the complexity and cost attached to small volume sales having more modern piston engine aircraft designs, prototype development etc wasn't outweighed by their improved fuel usage, more power etc.

What struck me was how retro aviation engines were, when you expect naturally expect the opposite for something going through the air, especially compared to marine just sitting on plain old water.

Yet modern marine diesels, common rail, electrics etc etc and gas outboards have gone the full complexity route where today sometimes you wish for the past.

The small block Tohatsu 2 strokes just needing clean fuel, clean air and a spark discussed here a case in point. That compared to 4 strokes and things like ETech 2 strokes etc.    

Learn something every day.      

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Then he said some were diesel auto engines so they could run cheaper and more readily available diesel fuel, NOT avgas and a lot easier to start in cold climates simply with glow plugs, not standalone heater/blowers that avgas apparently needs.

Check out the Austro E4 Diesel Engines on the Diamond Twin DA62.  Based on a Mercedes diesel engine.

2 litre turbocharged common rail injected 180hp.  Uses Jet-A or diesel.  Complete EECU control managed by a Garmin 10000x.  Single push button pre-flight power cycle test.

The DA62 burns about 22 l/hr per engine at 160 knots 60% power.

The basic single and twin engine prop planes haven't changed their basic power plant in over 40 years.  

The turbo diesel is a giant leap forward.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Check out the Austro E4 Diesel Engines on the Diamond Twin DA62.  Based on a Mercedes diesel engine.

The most polite and informative reply to me you have made KSFB??

Is there a change in the air?

He was rattling off names a dime a dozen and hard to keep up but Austro was one and remembered because it is made in Austria :lol: .

The only other remembered was Rotex or similar name because the parent Company the same as Evinrudes parent who interestingly has stopped making their 2 stroke ETech.

I had a ETech which was bloody brilliant 2 stroke motor, until it started going wrong and then you needed a computer and a scientist to work out what was wrong to fix the bloody thing. Got rid of because of that and I suspect their reason for ditching it too.

I am currently gazing at my old diesel but light, OHC and turbo'd but not common rail based on a 1980's small van engine and think about replacing but never do.  

Retro often the way to go. 

Sorry for the thread drift. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He was rattling off names a dime a dozen and hard to keep up but Austro was one and remembered because it is made in Austria

The Austro E4 is a very very smart piece of machinery.  Based in the Merc OM640.

In fact the DA62 is a nice package albeit a bit pricey.  Has a ceiling of 22,000 feet and seats seven.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's likely not the weight that matters (a fat guy sitting well aft is much more than a slightly heavier outboard).

It's the HP that makes the difference. Its just that the quite short RIBs are not as controllable. Just approach with caution especially in hard turns.

I've put 15 HP on a 3m RIB only rated for 8 or 10 and no issue. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pro Tip: Most outboards come in 2 or three horsepower ratings from the same engine. The carb might be different, but the block is the same. You can see this by looking at the engine weights. You might see a 6 and a 9 that weigh almost the same, or a 10 and 15, etc. etc. That is a good way to find more power without more weight.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Speaking of gear heads, I was talking to a 'aircraft that have piston engines' gearhead.

Came away now knowing that many piston engine aircraft engines in recent times have been simply auto engines and he listed Mercedes, Porche, Toyota and Honda etc with only the auto anciliaries removed, just like marinised diesel tractor, truck engines etc. One even had a cast iron, not alloy block.

Then he said some were diesel auto engines so they could run cheaper and more readily available diesel fuel, NOT avgas, had less engine controls and a lot easier to start in cold climates simply with glow plugs, not standalone tarmac heater/blowers that avgas apparently needs when its cold.

Then the ones that were completely new often reverted to tried and tested and simple design approaches from the 60's, as the complexity and cost attached to small volume sales having more modern piston engine aircraft designs, prototype development etc wasn't outweighed by their improved fuel usage, more power etc.

What struck me was how retro aviation engines were, when you expect naturally expect the opposite for something going through the air, especially compared to marine just sitting on plain old water.

Yet modern marine diesels, common rail, electrics etc etc and gas outboards have gone the full complexity route where today sometimes you wish for the past.

The small block Tohatsu 2 strokes just needing clean fuel, clean air and a spark discussed here a case in point. That compared to 4 strokes and things like ETech 2 strokes etc.    

Learn something every day.      

Sort of kind of.

Diesel aero engines are a quite small part of the market so far. They have automotive origins, but are not even remotely close to the equivalent of a marinized car engine. There is a LOT that is different and it all costs big $$$$. Among other things they are able to run on kerosene, which is what you get at the airport. Diesel will gel at the very low temperatures found at altitude. They can run on diesel, as will any jet, as long as it doesn't get too cold ;) Preheating airplanes is a lot more about saving very expensive engines from damage by cold starts with cold oil than having them be physically impossible to start. In my experience most airplanes can be started sans preheat in colder weather than you would want to if you are paying for the repairs. As far as traditional gasoline engines go, airplane engine tech is mostly 1930s-1940s era tech with some forays into the early 60s. It turns out that big slow turning engines are actually a good way to move airplanes and the RPM range they operate in is so narrow they don't get much benefit from car-style electronics. Porsche tried selling airplane engines with poor results, the aviation version of the 911 engine just wasn't all that big of an improvement.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm involved in the Experimental Aircraft hobby groups and there is a popular thing to convert a Mazda rotary engine into an aircraft engine and put it into a Long-Ez or whatever.  Pretty cool projects.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I'm involved in the Experimental Aircraft hobby groups and there is a popular thing to convert a Mazda rotary engine into an aircraft engine and put it into a Long-Ez or whatever.  Pretty cool projects.

I followed a lot of those auto-engine conversions starting in the 80s. Too many of them seemed to result in wrecked airplanes and/or the engines being replaced by aircraft engines. It turns out that airplane engines really are really good at what they do. The only auto conversion I know of that I would think about is the Corvair conversion. It seems to do quite well.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The only auto conversion I know of that I would think about is the Corvair conversion. It seems to do quite well.

See Avweb on this topic. Interesting stuff

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

As far as traditional gasoline engines go, airplane engine tech is mostly 1930s-1940s era tech with some forays into the early 60s. It turns out that big slow turning engines are actually a good way to move airplanes and the RPM range they operate in is so narrow they don't get much benefit from car-style electronics.

The modern marine diesel is a pretty cool piece of engineering. But gee wizz just the electronics is no easy fix when in the environment they live in is tailor made for surprises.

So I wish there was a marine diesel engine manufacture that offered a 'retro line' for those that traveled to the butt end of nowhere and to fix it, it is only them and what spares/tools they have on board.

I will keep my light powerful OHC turbo, that other than that is a 60's motor, going for as long as practical because of that.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/17/2021 at 10:51 AM, MauiPunter said:

On the flip side, the 4-stroke Tohastu 9.8 weighs in at 82 lbs.  With a max rating of 70lbs on the dinghy, will the extra 12lbs really cause a problem?  Or is this a diminishing returns problem with the added weight on the stern?

Let's put 12 lbs in perspective. 2 gallons of gasoline weighs about 12 lbs. The proper anchor for a 3m rib is 12lbs. The difference in weight of a man and woman is 30 lbs.

If you keep a full fuel tank in the back of the bus next to the transom that's about 24lbs. 

You can see where this is headed. If you put the anchor &  fuel tank up in the bow and only let your girlfriend with the big tits steer, you could get away with a 25 hp outboard. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, fastyacht said:

See Avweb on this topic. Interesting stuff

The latest vid.

Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in 1940's, not in some fancy wind tunnel design thing.

They just copied the outline of the 50mm bullet because they thought it would work.

Love that job.

IMG_20210520_063716.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2021 at 4:34 AM, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

be gentle on the throtlle...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2021 at 2:34 AM, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

If you’re going to repower, just go all in. I could grab some decals from work for one of the 4 horse toys to slap on this guy so no one notices. :D

E805B2AA-24AA-480B-9432-040334A7BBD5.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

BWahahahaha...  that's fucking huge!  lol  Probably only weighs like 300lbs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

BWahahahaha...  that's fucking huge!  lol  Probably only weighs like 300lbs.

I think that is the new V12. So even if you meant 300kg you would have been still waaay short. 1260 pounds or 572 kg.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Upp3 said:

I think that is the new V12. So even if you meant 300kg you would have been still waaay short. 1260 pounds or 572 kg.

True, but I thought we all agreed that if MP moved the gas can to the front, we could get away with a little extra weight in the transom!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I dumped ('scuse the expression) my two stroke outboard 

for a more environmentally friendly four stroke (Nissan 6hp to kick my 26 ft sailboat), 

but that was a while back. I understand that now two-strokes are just as clean. 

Is that correct ??   

This is what google says . .  

Can you still buy 2 stroke outboards in USA?
 
Two-stroke outboards are not banned

The newer generation of two-stroke outboard engines are equipped with direct fuel injection technology which reduces the engines' emission level to meet the requirement of the Outboard Emissions Law. Only carburettor-based outboard motors will be banned starting July 1, 2019.
Apr 8, 2019
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/17/2021 at 3:58 AM, Lex Teredo said:

I can't believe nobody has suggested a Rootes blower, or a modest turbo kit.  

This forum doesn't have as many gearheads as I had hoped.  

 

I've tried ocean water injection. Turns out they need air in the manifold, too. Who knew?

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

I dumped ('scuse the expression) my two stroke outboard 

for a more environmentally friendly four stroke (Nissan 6hp to kick my 26 ft sailboat), 

but that was a while back. I understand that now two-strokes are just as clean. 

Is that correct ??   

This is what google says . .  

Can you still buy 2 stroke outboards in USA?
 
Two-stroke outboards are not banned

The newer generation of two-stroke outboard engines are equipped with direct fuel injection technology which reduces the engines' emission level to meet the requirement of the Outboard Emissions Law. Only carburettor-based outboard motors will be banned starting July 1, 2019.
Apr 8, 2019

I’m actually glad I hit the “view this post” button because you brought up a very valid question. The little two strokes that need premixed gas/oil are awful for the environment. The big two strokes that use oil injection got caught in the crossfire by stupid politicians. It’s pretty obvious which company I work for based on my earlier joke, but the best emissions rating we’ve ever gotten for any engine we’ve ever built was the two stroke Optimax we were forced to discontinue. Evinrude folded because of that. It was good for us, but those Evinrudes were damn nice engines. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Monkey said:

True, but I thought we all agreed that if MP moved the gas can to the front, we could get away with a little extra weight in the transom!

Should work, but I want to see what happens when the lift gets activated, we need video.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

Should work, but I want to see what happens when the lift gets activated, we need video.

I want to see it too!  :D 
 

Edit: and to cut MP some slack, when he thought that was a 300 pound engine, he had no useful scale. I’m 6’2” and that engine is at least a foot taller than I am. However, it should solve his planing issues. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Monkey said:

I’m actually glad I hit the “view this post” button because you brought up a very valid question. The little two strokes that need premixed gas/oil are awful for the environment. The big two strokes that use oil injection got caught in the crossfire by stupid politicians. It’s pretty obvious which company I work for based on my earlier joke, but the best emissions rating we’ve ever gotten for any engine we’ve ever built was the two stroke Optimax we were forced to discontinue. Evinrude folded because of that. It was good for us, but those Evinrudes were damn nice engines. 

So what do you recommend that we in the US buy ? 

And how about outside the US ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Monkey said:

Evinrude folded because of that. It was good for us, but those Evinrudes were damn nice engines. 

Yes they were and I don't know if this was the reason they folded up the ETech or was it part of the big fold up of the company?

On 5/18/2021 at 4:55 PM, jack_sparrow said:

I had a ETech which was bloody brilliant 2 stroke motor, until it started going wrong and then you needed a computer and a scientist to work out what was wrong to fix the bloody thing. Got rid of because of that and I suspect their reason for ditching it too.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

So what do you recommend that we in the US buy ? 

And how about outside the US ? 

That entirely depends on size and what you need it to do. The modern 4 strokes are still pretty clean. Setting my bias aside, I’m partial to different brands at different HP’s. A lot of that is based on experience, and a lot of it is based on having access to some insanely in-depth market research on reliability. I also really like the electric options when they fit your needs. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes they were and I don't know if this was the reason they folded up the ETech or was it part of the big fold up of the company?

 

None of us will ever know for sure, but Evinrude shut their doors six months before it was going to become illegal to sell their engines in the US. They did most of their business in the US and Canada. 
 

I’ll admit I was a little baffled when I had to spend a week with a team of engineers from Bombardier (Evinrude’s parent company) showing them all our secrets awhile ago. It all made sense when they quit making engines and gave us all their business. They’ve now copied a lot of our error proofing systems. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Monkey said:

That entirely depends on size and what you need it to do. The modern 4 strokes are still pretty clean. Setting my bias aside, I’m partial to different brands at different HP’s. A lot of that is based on experience, and a lot of it is based on having access to some insanely in-depth market research on reliability. I also really like the electric options when they fit your needs. 

Do tell.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IStream said:

Do tell.

Well, the little 2HP Honda is an absolute beast. I love that thing. Moving up, Yamaha makes some great little engines. From 75 up to 600, I’ll take a Mercury all day. I’m very biased, but warranty claims back up my bias. Suzukis just kind of lurk in the middle. They aren’t the best at anything, but they’re great bang for your buck. 
 

To be honest, if you’re going to spend more than ten grand on an engine, I’d view it exactly like buying sails. Buy whatever has local support. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, air cooling takes a lot of complexity out of the motor. If you don't mind the noise and the centrifugal clutch, the Honda 2.X units are nice.

I had a water cooled Suzuki 2.5 that was great, too. It was all of 30lb, would start on the second pull after sitting all winter for 5 years running, just sipped gas. Its only quirk was that it didn't respond well to limp wristing when pulling the cord. I sold the Suzuki with my old Walker Bay 10 and am currently in love with the 1994 Belgian Merc 15hp 2 stroke I got with an Avon 3.1 RIB I bought off Craigslist. It's 70lbs of fury.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, IStream said:

Yeah, air cooling takes a lot of complexity out of the motor. If you don't mind the noise and the centrifugal clutch, the Honda 2.X units are nice.

I had a water cooled Suzuki 2.5 that was great, too. It was all of 30lb, would start on the second pull after sitting all winter for 5 years running, just sipped gas. Its only quirk was that it didn't respond well to limp wristing when pulling the cord. I sold the Suzuki with my old Walker Bay 10 and am currently in love with the 1994 Belgian Merc 15hp 2 stroke I got with an Avon 3.1 RIB I bought off Craigslist. It's 70lbs of fury.

Mercury 15s used to be made by Tohatsu. Haven't checked lately whether things have changed. (Also Nissan is Tohatsu).

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Monkey said:

Well, the little 2HP Honda is an absolute beast. I love that thing. Moving up, Yamaha makes some great little engines. From 75 up to 600, I’ll take a Mercury all day. I’m very biased, but warranty claims back up my bias. Suzukis just kind of lurk in the middle. They aren’t the best at anything, but they’re great bang for your buck. 
 

To be honest, if you’re going to spend more than ten grand on an engine, I’d view it exactly like buying sails. Buy whatever has local support. 

i took my 2.5 hp merc and with a small internet fix  turned it into a 3.5hp merc..still cant my rib to plane ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2021 at 3:34 AM, MauiPunter said:

I currently have a Honda 5HP 4-stroke outboard on my Achilles HB-240LX RIB and find that it will only plane when its just me in the boat.  The RIB is rated to 5HP and max engine weight of 66-70lbs.  The 5HP 4-stroke weighs 60lbs, so, all good.   

But, I really want more horsepower to help get the dinghy planing with both of aboard.

I found some 9-10 HP 2-strokes that weigh in around 55-60 lbs.  Seems like it would do the job.

Is this a sound idea, or am I crazy and asking for trouble.

2 strokes are all hiding out south of the boarder 

 

It’s possible to buy used in the US 

Ask an outboard motor repair shop , the 8 and 9.8 models were very popular and have a long service life  

18377761-3F70-4A40-BA7A-1F972971CEBC.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Mercury 15s used to be made by Tohatsu. Haven't checked lately whether things have changed. (Also Nissan is Tohatsu

All big manufactures small block 2 strokes made by Tohatsu

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
On 5/22/2021 at 8:56 AM, Monkey said:

Evinrude folded because of that. It was good for us, but those Evinrudes were damn nice engines. 

Yes they were and I don't know if this was the reason they folded up the ETech or was it part of the big fold up of the company?

On 5/18/2021 at 4:55 PM, jack_sparrow said:

I had a ETech which was bloody brilliant 2 stroke motor, until it started going wrong and then you needed a computer and a scientist to work out what was wrong to fix the bloody thing. Got rid of because of that and I suspect their reason for ditching it too.

54 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I was told Evinrude folded because of too many problems with their hi-tech engines.

My experience says it was a contributing factor??

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does Budget Marine ship?   I noticed those, but, man, shipping up from Caribbean will probably cost as much the engine itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Mercury 15s used to be made by Tohatsu. Haven't checked lately whether things have changed. (Also Nissan is Tohatsu).

Mercury, Tohatsu, and Nissan are all identical below 60 HP. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Mercury, Tohatsu, and Nissan are all identical below 60 HP. 

I was aware of this but don't recall when it started. When did Merc sign up with Tohatsu for the smaller motors and what's the story on the Merc Belgium factory? Is it now just a distribution center?

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, IStream said:

I was aware of this but don't recall when it started. When did Merc sign up with Tohatsu for the smaller motors and what's the story on the Merc Belgium factory? Is it now just a distribution center?

The partnership started before my time, and I’ve been there ten years. We don’t build anything in Belgium, so I’d guess it’s just distribution. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just did some digging and it looks like Merc and Tohatsu have been in business together since 1987, though it's unclear on how and when that might've affected Belgian production. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys have missed the cheap and cheerful option, tiller extensions, particulalry on the short ribs where getting body and load weight foward until a bit of speed is on is sooooo the right thing to do.

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/helmsmate-extendable-88-125cm-outboard-tiller-extension/p8148?gclid=Cj0KCQjwna2FBhDPARIsACAEc_XLRSEkxRpdiitFcPh2Z-O0MgVClXNc1slqq65lqnE-eoyo2jOJno4aAocvEALw_wcB

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2021 at 1:17 AM, Monkey said:

None of us will ever know for sure, but Evinrude shut their doors six months before it was going to become illegal to sell their engines in the US. They did most of their business in the US and Canada. 
 

I’ll admit I was a little baffled when I had to spend a week with a team of engineers from Bombardier (Evinrude’s parent company) showing them all our secrets awhile ago. It all made sense when they quit making engines and gave us all their business. They’ve now copied a lot of our error proofing systems. 

so the quiet rider will be more Merc than E-tec?
PS never heard they would become illegal, even Greta loves them as they produced 50% less CO than a 4 slug as I am sure you know

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Does Budget Marine ship?   I noticed those, but, man, shipping up from Caribbean will probably cost as much the engine itself.

I don’t think so

 

I’ve always bought outboards in person .. Caribbean , South America , Eastern Europe 

the rest of the world uses two strokes

many internet sites that sell two stroke .. and claim worldwide shipping 

do some googling 

give them a call 

http://www.yamaha-outboardsale.com/yamaha-2-stroke-outboard-c-114.html

 

those 2 stroke 8hp Yamahas are the best tenders motors 

 

 

 

 

 

74B00256-E496-435B-8D40-DA20F9AAC12C.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

You guys have missed the cheap and cheerful option, tiller extensions, particulalry on the short ribs where getting body and load weight foward until a bit of speed is on is sooooo the right thing to do.

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/helmsmate-extendable-88-125cm-outboard-tiller-extension/p8148?gclid=Cj0KCQjwna2FBhDPARIsACAEc_XLRSEkxRpdiitFcPh2Z-O0MgVClXNc1slqq65lqnE-eoyo2jOJno4aAocvEALw_wcB

I got one of those.  Works good, but, still need more juice.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I don’t think so

 

I’ve always bought outboards in person .. Caribbean , South America , Eastern Europe 

the rest of the world uses two strokes

many internet sites that sell two stroke .. and claim worldwide shipping 

do some googling 

give them a call 

http://www.yamaha-outboardsale.com/yamaha-2-stroke-outboard-c-114.html

 

those 2 stroke 8hp Yamahas are the best tenders motors 

 

 

 

 

 

74B00256-E496-435B-8D40-DA20F9AAC12C.png

Their selling price for a NEW 15 HP Yamaha is about what I would get for my 22 year old USED Yamaha 15. Maybe shipping is big $$$$ ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/17/2021 at 8:10 AM, Se7en said:

Luckily the Tohatsu 6hp, 8 hp and 9.8 hp are all the same unit, with just the stickers on the cowl to identify them. If the previous owner was to have swapped the stickers, how were you to know?

Are you talking about two strokes? For four strokes, the 6 is a one cylinder engine and the others have two cylinders.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2021 at 1:25 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Their selling price for a NEW 15 HP Yamaha is about what I would get for my 22 year old USED Yamaha 15. Maybe shipping is big $$$$ ?

I don’t know 

you must call

the internet is difficult to use because it only searches locally ..your region 

shift your search region and type in foreign language 

i believe that all the new 2 strokes are sold as “used “ or some other description  like commercial when exported 

https://www.ribs.co.uk/outboard-motors-yamaha-mercury-mariner-suzuki-tohatsu-lehr/commercial-use-2-stroke-outboard-motors-yamaha-tohatsu-mercury-mariner/

 

 

 

 

 

 

A2209869-C6E6-4EBD-9276-A1719EAB3A04.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

Are you talking about two strokes? For four strokes, the 6 is a one cylinder engine and the others have two cylinders.

Yes, 2 stroke. I see nothing but downsides with going 4 stroke for small outboard engines.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Se7en said:

Yes, 2 stroke. I see nothing but downsides with going 4 stroke for small outboard engines.

I wish they were easier to buy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The APBA sells motors retired from the para-mutual Japanese racing circuit, but I doubt they are suitable for a tender. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd pay big bucks for a new Yamaha 2 hp 2 stroke, in case anyone's coming back from one of those countries that let you dump oil into the water through your outboard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/24/2021 at 1:25 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Their selling price for a NEW 15 HP Yamaha is about what I would get for my 22 year old USED Yamaha 15. Maybe shipping is big $$$$ ?

Vpn. Change cointries. Also change language if needed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

I'd pay big bucks for a new Yamaha 2 hp 2 stroke, in case anyone's coming back from one of those countries that let you dump oil into the water through your outboard.

I'm curious as to why. The Suzuki 2.5 four stroke is only 9 pounds heavier (30lb vs 21lb), is easily handled, extremely reliable, and doesn't put out oil or smoke. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, IStream said:

I'm curious as to why. The Suzuki 2.5 four stroke is only 9 pounds heavier (30lb vs 21lb), is easily handled, extremely reliable, and doesn't put out oil or smoke. 

It's much bigger and won't fit into the hull on my new 20 hp powercat. Need a "get home" motor for long trips, but never had one before, so I'm not sure why.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

It's much bigger and won't fit into the hull on my new 20 hp powercat. Need a "get home" motor for long trips, but never had one before, so I'm not sure why.

I forgot that you'd mentioned this before.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...