Jump to content

Stanford re-instates varsity sailing...


Recommended Posts

This was in our e-mail today, from the Uni. newspaper.

=======

Stanford will reinstate all 11 varsity programs slated to be discontinued following the 2020-21 academic year, in a shocking reversal that follows months of student, athlete and alumni activism.

The sports; men's and women's fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men's rowing, co-ed and women's sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men's volleyball and wrestling will all retain varsity status next fall, athletes confirmed to The Daily.

Athletes from at least one of the affected teams were informed of the reversal by coaches this morning. The decision was first reported by the San Francisco Chronicle, and an official announcement from the University is expected later today.

=======

 

I'm glad for the athletes and the now re-employed coaches, but the ARROGANCE of the Stanford Athletics department is beyond belief.  I work at the University and I've had the experience of walking into the ~Extremely~ plush Athletics Department offices. The reception area looks like some multibillion dollar corporation. Walk in, and you'll be entirely ignored. It's really eerie actually....like you don't even exist. I guess alumni with million-dollar donations don't get ignored, but the IT guy there to make sure their funding database is clearly no better than dirt.

The original announcement, made a year ago, pointedly stated that the decision was final, that no amount of lobbying or fundraising was going to change the decision...and basically told the athletes to just STFU and deal with it.  It reinforced my low opinion of Stanford Athletics, generally.  I'm glad for the athletes that a year of raising hell has finally dented a couple of football-mad coaches/administrators brains.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect they found out (from their Alumni) that most Alumni athletes were not Football Players, but rather, sailors, fencers, volleyball players, etc.  They are happy to support Athletics, and the football program AS LONG as their sport is also supported...Stop supporting their sport, and their support as an alumni dries up!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It probably didn't hurt that during COVID, all football practice was stopped. There have been exactly zero football games in over a year. The stadium has been repurposed as an outdoor fitness center for students and staff.  So much for the big "Revenue Generating Sport", but they're still paying out those full-ride scholarships to third-string linebackers.  Mind you, I know one of those ex "third string" players, a center who was a big guy but played backup to a truly enormous MoFo who went on to a Pro career.  Bert got playing time, I think four times in four years in the local game against San Jose State...a non-conference exhibition.   He's  a good guy, competed in the Highland Games with me after his scholarship obligations ran out but the University laid out about $130,000 dollars to have him train for four years to "add depth" to the team.

$130,000 could buy a whole lot of flying juniors for the sailing team, or new masks and suits for the fencing team.

Link to post
Share on other sites

certainly shameful that john took the fall for the university, the athletic director got away free and clean, and the university kept the money (but supposedly donated it *rolling eyes*)

 

on a selfish note, i was happy to hear the sport has been reinstated by the university as it is nice to be able to watch my kids at multiple college regattas a year very close to home

 

 

 

 

ps...long time alan, hope all is well with you and the family

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that it's particularly relevant, but Stanford, like the rest of the Pac12, did play a 6 game football schedule last fall. It was shortened and shifted to late in the year due to Covid. Glad to see that sailing and other non-revenue generating sports were brought back.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if anyone is asking, but I'll go ahead and answer the question posed by the (mythical) FP headline: in the US, college sailing has coed (i.e. open - there's no rule on the gender split) and women's divisions. It's actually a really good example of how the boat class, which is just a tad too small for two average college-age men, can force gender parity, at least in numbers. It also makes the sport easier to market to the AD as it counts as a women's sport for Title IX purposes (I think).

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

Not sure if anyone is asking, but I'll go ahead and answer the question posed by the (mythical) FP headline: in the US, college sailing has coed (i.e. open - there's no rule on the gender split) and women's divisions. It's actually a really good example of how the boat class, which is just a tad too small for two average college-age men, can force gender parity, at least in numbers. It also makes the sport easier to market to the AD as it counts as a women's sport for Title IX purposes (I think).

Even if there was a separate men's sailing, the answer would be simple. Title IX, which is a good thing. Plus the fact that there are 85 freaking football scholarships allowed, which is not.

So when any div one school in particular drops any men's sport and blames title IX, they are LYING.

I'm sorry, but the answer isn't that Title IX forced them to do it. The answer is that there aren't enough athletic directors willing to stand up and question whether football really needs the equivalent of four full teams on scholarship at all times? Wouldn't 50 or 60 be enough? Like it our not, that's two or three men's sports right there that could be "saved". They choose not to fix this disparity, and try to blame Title IX for their own failings.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This honestly probably saved the entire Stanford program. They fly to regattas almost every weekend - hard to imagine doing that on a club sport budget. The real question is, do they have anyone left to sail? I think a good deal of their students fucked off to do olympic campaigns during 2020

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a weird, rushed decision in the first place. A large part of Stanford's identity is tied up in the fact that it's won the (née Sears) Directors Cup - for the top overall athletic program in Division I - every year for nearly three decades, which allows a fairly nerdy school with only occasional success in the money sports to cultivate an image as an athletic powerhouse.  The university is crawling with Olympians in random sports working on Human Biology majors between training sessions.

That said, my main memory of the sailing program when I was there was a fairly stand-offish group of preppy kids who drank beer out of overturned frisbees in parties that nobody else was invited to.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ChrisJD said:

my main memory of the sailing program when I was there was a fairly stand-offish group of preppy kids who drank beer out of overturned frisbees in parties that nobody else was invited to.

Actually, everyone was invited except you. B)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, crashtack said:

This honestly probably saved the entire Stanford program. They fly to regattas almost every weekend - hard to imagine doing that on a club sport budget. The real question is, do they have anyone left to sail? I think a good deal of their students fucked off to do olympic campaigns during 2020

A few sailors took the year off, but they still have plenty of talent. The women's team just finished fifth at Dinghy Nationals and second at singlehanded. The coed and team race teams should do just as well if not better in the next two weeks.  Recent Stanford grad Luke Muller is gearing up to represent USA in the Finn class in Tokyo.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, ChrisJD said:

It was a weird, rushed decision in the first place. A large part of Stanford's identity is tied up in the fact that it's won the (née Sears) Directors Cup - for the top overall athletic program in Division I - every year for nearly three decades, which allows a fairly nerdy school with only occasional success in the money sports to cultivate an image as an athletic powerhouse.  The university is crawling with Olympians in random sports working on Human Biology majors between training sessions.

That said, my main memory of the sailing program when I was there was a fairly stand-offish group of preppy kids who drank beer out of overturned frisbees in parties that nobody else was invited to.

Granted it was 20 years ago, but I remember going to Stanford's post race party. If I recall correctly, most (if not all) of the teams were there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Football eats all the mens scholarship at any major football school and at schools w/o football, Mens Basketball does roughly the same thing.  In general, Mens Football and Mens Basketball are really the only sports with substantial alumni support.   Certainly exception to this but in most places, this is the draw.   These are the sports that bring the presiege which draws donor money.    Woman have roughly double the number of scholarships in most of the non-commerical sport (e.g. track, cross country, soccer, tennis, etc.) to offset the number of scholarships that these two mens sports chew up.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2021 at 1:28 PM, Crash said:

I suspect they found out (from their Alumni) that most Alumni athletes were not Football Players, but rather, sailors, fencers, volleyball players, etc.  They are happy to support Athletics, and the football program AS LONG as their sport is also supported...Stop supporting their sport, and their support as an alumni dries up!

Interesting observation and I would have to concur. Football and male basketball players that end up making the HUGE $$$ view college as their stepping stone. Most don't get anywhere close to a degree. They'll never donate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2021 at 2:21 PM, aA said:

certainly shameful that john took the fall for the university, the athletic director got away free and clean, and the university kept the money (but supposedly donated it *rolling eyes*)

If the coach knew that sailors on his team were there only because of their family's $'s. 

He was doing wrong. 

Funny how those lofty principles of meritocracy get tossed out the window when it comes to the kids of our corporate overlords. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, keving said:

Granted it was 20 years ago, but I remember going to Stanford's post race party. If I recall correctly, most (if not all) of the teams were there.

I'm a current college sailor on the pacific coast, and this doesn't happen anymore. Stanford only hosts parties for themselves, and they don't go to parties hosted by other schools either unfortunately.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

If the coach knew that sailors on his team were there only because of their family's $'s. 

He was doing wrong. 

There is no evidence that anyone was ever on the team, or even admitted because of donations.  John V. Has stated that there were not.

 

The AD on the other hand seems to have been doing all sorts of dealings.

 

Who is the more likely culprit of a pay to admit scheme - a regular Joe sailing coach (who can’t give scholarships) or an AD of a huge football and basketball team used to wheeling and dealing on the shady edge of the NCAA?

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a Netflix video (Operation Varsity Blues?). John V is the only coach that appears on the film. His impression of the athletics department is pretty much as the OP describes. The only thing he was asked when he saw the AD was how much do you have in donations. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things.

1. It wasn't just sailing that was cut, right?  I mean.... WRESTLING was cut. While wrestling doesn't bring in big bucks, what major US University doesn't have a varsity wrestling program?  We're all sailing-crazy but keep in mind that not just sailing was cut. Synchronized Swimming was cut.  You might hate Synchro and say it's not a sport, but Half the freaking US National Sychro team is Stanford graduates. I personally know a guy who volunteers time for Stanford wrestling, he puts in HOURS at Stanfords summer wrestling camp.  He's a former Stanford heavyweight.  He was NOT happy about this.  A whole lot of the affected athletes, coaches and sports alumni are calling for the AD to be fired for not supporting all the programs across the board.

It's not just sailing.

2.)  The President of the university wrote a letter to the whole University trying to back himself out of this, saying that alumni stepped up with funding and support. Funny.....but the original announcement said "These sports are cut, doesn't matter if you find more funding or not, the decision is final".

Backtracking, much? BULLSHITTING, much?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jimx said:

There is no evidence that anyone was ever on the team, or even admitted because of donations.  John V. Has stated that there were not.

Thanks for the clarification - I am happy to be mistaken , , 

Prolly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2021 at 11:18 AM, Donkey687 said:

A few sailors took the year off, but they still have plenty of talent. The women's team just finished fifth at Dinghy Nationals and second at singlehanded. The coed and team race teams should do just as well if not better in the next two weeks.  Recent Stanford grad Luke Muller is gearing up to represent USA in the Finn class in Tokyo.

Muller, like so many other talented Stanford sailors, quit the team early to focus on campaigning if I'm not incorrect.

Regardless, we NEED Stanford or else literally anyone good in youth sailing with half a brain will go to Yale

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, jimx said:

There is no evidence that anyone was ever on the team, or even admitted because of donations.  John V. Has stated that there were not.

I think that is fishy. He had to have known that two yoot on the team had no sailing experience. 

He did not take money himself, but he was part of the scam. 

Vandemoer pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit racketeering for arranging bribes of $110,000 and $160,000 to the sailing program and then designating two applicants, who had no sailing experience, as sailing recruits, according to his criminal complaint.Jun 12, 2019

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2021 at 7:32 PM, kai_ said:

I'm a current college sailor on the pacific coast, and this doesn't happen anymore. Stanford only hosts parties for themselves, and they don't go to parties hosted by other schools either unfortunately.

That's totally lame.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the party thing... Remember that Stanford has dealt with a couple of seriously high-profile rape cases in the past couple of years.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/04/brock-turner-stanford-rape-case-chanel-miller-survivor-emily-doe/2207106001/

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/ncaa/ex-stanford-swimmer-rapist-released-after-serving-half-his-term

and that is just one of several big-news sexual assaults that have put Stanford in the spotlight, in a manner which Deans and Presidents don't much like, over the past six-seven years. Never mind the fact that the woman involved has been traumatized for a couple of decades, and the young men have had their promising lives totally screwed up as well.

I can't tell you the shockwaves the Brock Turner case sent through the University hierarchy, and rightly so. However, much of the uppermost echelon of Stanford academic management is REALLY concerned with Stanfords "Reputation".  They've had to deal with some really damaging incidents.  The Hospital is even more concerned with Stanford immaculate reputation, phrasing it as "patients trust relations". Cynical me is relatively sure that senior academic management here is MUCH more concerned with The Stanford Reputation, and the endowment and the grant-getting track record than any personal agony suffered by a young woman or a young man, but maybe I'm just being an ass about that.

All that has to happen at an inter-college athletic party is for some dumbass to do something 'effing stupid and POW, there's another public relations nightmare on the Presidents hands. I'm sure that the coaches have heard, loud 'n clear from the AD that official "parties" will be  tightly regulated and supervised.

They can't do much about the unofficial ones, of course.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's something you have to understand about Stanford.... there's a "drive" to "leave a legacy" and in most cases that means building more buildings. Perfectly good academic, teaching, Library and research buildings are levelled around here on a regular basis so that the Dean and some donor can have their name on a new building. The push is more...more...more...more...  the expansion and infill is insane and now sprawls far beyond the main campus.  I work here, though I'm at home most of the time now, and when I go to the gym, I go to Stanford Redwood City.  That single facility, mostly healthcare, is bigger than some entire Universities.      In the over 20 years that I've worked here, I cannot remember a time when traffic wasn't screwed up somewhere on campus with construction. IT...NEVER....ENDS.  Private companies with extremely tight ties to Stanford are started on a weekly basis.  As of 2018, Stanford was the second largest employer on the San Francisco Peninsula.

There is nothing quite like it. Harvard builds new facilities but they don't build multiple new buildings ALL...THE...TIME...

The Endowment is 27 BILLION dollars.

And the obviously overwhelming drive is to GROW..  go get MORE.  The public relations management issues are huge. In light of that enormous priority....the Dean MUST have his name on a new building or he's a failure.... some Stanford Sailing Team parties kind of don't matter very much. The potential damage done to Stanford by someone that Stanford couldn't discipline because they attend another University, is HUGE.  And the "management" is terrified of it.

I mean, my God. They might have to stop building for a couple of years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

About the parties - well things are different in college sailing now.  It ain’t the 80s anymore. Varsity team athletes, for many teams, are required to act like varsity athletes and one red cup picture during a regatta weekend could get you kicked off the team.

It ain’t the 80s. Schools are taking their programs seriously and that’s a good thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jimx said:

one red cup picture during a regatta weekend could get you kicked off the team.

It ain’t the 80s. Schools are taking their programs seriously and that’s a good thing.

This seems like the opposite of a good thing.

Take the sailing seriously? Dead fucking right.

Learn to socialize with other teams in a quasi-adult way?  I would hope so. Why do we have college sports? These kids aren't going to the NBA.

I learned a lot about sailing on the Stanford sailing team. 100 starts a week throughout college will do that. I also learned a lot about things OTHER than sailing from being on a college sports team. It would completely defeat the purpose if they remove the social aspect entirely.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The world could learn allot from Stanford. Including it's mistakes. Stanford isn't perfect, no one is.

( sailing is not NCAA) , but looking at NCAA, PAC 12 and football, Stanford has said years ago that if collage sports go "professional" they'll most likely bow out, they'll find a alternative. Big money, and the athletic department does not run the university.

For those who don't know, whether its USC or Standard,  these are private schools, as private schools, they set their own goals and standards.  Even though they're 2 of  the PAC12, they are flagship, and the PAC 12 falls apart without them.  Stanford, carries some the biggest clout in the NCAA overall.

At the end of the day, i guess my point is,  Stanford man/women's up, runs their house, defines who they are, then they get on with it.   Which really is a skill, that is in shortage these days.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/24/2021 at 11:08 PM, SF Woody Sailor said:

This seems like the opposite of a good thing.

Take the sailing seriously? Dead fucking right.

Learn to socialize with other teams in a quasi-adult way?  I would hope so. Why do we have college sports? These kids aren't going to the NBA.

I learned a lot about sailing on the Stanford sailing team. 100 starts a week throughout college will do that. I also learned a lot about things OTHER than sailing from being on a college sports team. It would completely defeat the purpose if they remove the social aspect entirely.

In a general, college is about learning and growing up and weren't the 80's great, kinda way I agree with you.  But it isn't the 80s anymore. If sailing wants to be a sport, it needs to be a sport. And sports in 2020 is not about socializing and drinking and parties. Sports is about professional performance.

So we probably agree that maybe that sucks and the America of 1980 was way better than the America of today. But we live in the America of today. And if we want sailing to be a sport we need to get with the program and put down the red cups.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...