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thru hulls close or open


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Hello    

coming from the darkside ( Trimaran ) where thru hulls were not an issue. However now I am on a lead I am wondering what you guys and gals do with your boats during the week.  I am glad to close all the big red thru hulls all over the boat..   However, what about the tiny screw type on the sail drive portion of the Yanmar....   That thing is the pits to close and open ....  what is your opinion 

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Close it. if the hose leaks, comes off  or the pump leaks it is going down. check to see if your Yanmar valve closes all the way and actually stops the water. I have had  valve that seemed to work and close but it was not closing at all. it closed down to about 1/4" still open and was still open enough to run the engine. older boats we would hang the start key on the thur hull so we did not forget to open the valve. can't do that on the new Yanmar , no key, so we do the same thing with a key float as a reminder 

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And for older boats with a shaft, strut and propeller, for gawd's sake check the stern gland before you go ashore.  Bitter experience on this one.

Working for Swan in the Med in the 70s, I brought a Swan 38 back from yard work ashore in Villefranche, and tied her up to her Monaco swinging mooring.  Going ashore in the dinghy I realized I'd left my passport in the nav table, so cursed, and rowed back.  Open the hatch, down the companionway, and splash into water over my ankles.  The nut on the stern gland hadn't been secured, and had spun backwards as I reversed.  Lots of fun reaching down into that deep S&S bilge with one nostril above water to wind it up again.

Hours of hand pumping, and back to the yard in the morning to dry out and secure it properly.

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Old school... we keep the motor intake open all the time. All the rest are closed when it on the boat. 
 

the bulge pump is just above the WL so we leave that open along with the galley sink again above the waterline. 

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Yup, same here.  Double clamp the raw water intake for engine cooling and keep it open.  You will never overheat your engine when you're in a hurry to get off the mooring.

 

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Can you replace the gate (screw) valve with a ball valve? I will still be hard to get to but only turning 1/4 turn and knowing it's closed would be worth the investment to me. 

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I find it hard to believe that there is even any question about this.
You close the ones you are not using and you leave open the ones you must.

Bilge pumps, cockpit drains get left open if present. All others are closed.

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11 hours ago, Zonker said:

Close them. Costs a few seconds, keeps the valve moving and may prevent the boat sinking.

I agree and do, peace of mind when away from boat that sinking by through hull is one less thing to worry about, plus they should be opened and closed all the time to keep them working.

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2 hours ago, Peenstone said:

Yup, same here.  Double clamp the raw water intake for engine cooling and keep it open.  You will never overheat your engine when you're in a hurry to get off the mooring.

 

the old keep it closed and hang the keys from it always works, how fast do you need to get away??

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I've always wondered about this double clamping business.  More often than not, there's barely enough room to get one jubilee clip on let alone two.  Also, when you have to change the hoses invariably you have to cut the hose as its welded to the skin fitting.  I close all my seacocks when I leave the boat for any length of time. Cockpit drains excepted.

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Just now, Whinging Pom said:

Also, when you have to change the hoses invariably you have to cut the hose as its welded to the skin fitting. 

So? If you're changing the hose why does it matter?

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50 minutes ago, Whinging Pom said:

Also, when you have to change the hoses invariably you have to cut the hose as its welded to the skin fitting. 

I've had to cut hoses but there are these magic tools for removing stubborn hoses. They are for working with car radiator hoses and the top one is more useful but they do work.

 

image.png.5d47ae06bb1943e2ab204ff568a5523a.png

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I'm surprised at the number of people that actually close their valves... When I first bought the boat I would close them all before leaving but I haven't bothered for quite some time. I think Winter 2019 was the last time I left the valves closed since I would go 3-4 weeks without a check. We exercise them every few weeks but we're using the boat every other weekend at most and don't bother closing them.

I think it's highly unreasonable to assume a hose is going to come loose at rest at the dock. I think it would be much more reasonable to start with having them closed when underway and not in use or when sleeping on board. You're probably more likely to break the valve off breaking your fall from a wave while trying to operate it than a hose randomly falling off.

Exercise the valves and give the hose a solid tug every couple weeks is my $0.02.

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I keep them closed if they aren't being used.

No matter how you look at it, they are pretty big holes in the bottom of your boat.

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5 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

I've always wondered about this double clamping business.  More often than not, there's barely enough room to get one jubilee clip on let alone two.  Also, when you have to change the hoses invariably you have to cut the hose as its welded to the skin fitting.  I close all my seacocks when I leave the boat for any length of time. Cockpit drains excepted.

There is no standard that I am aware of that calls for double clamping hull plumbing hoses.  Fuel tank fill hoses on the other hand............

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7 hours ago, GH41 said:

Can you replace the gate (screw) valve with a ball valve? I will still be hard to get to but only turning 1/4 turn and knowing it's closed would be worth the investment to me. 

+1, gate valve have no place on thru-hull fittings. The screw drive can break giving no indication whether it is open or closed.

Valves, or just about anything else for that matter, should be open when in use, otherwise closed............

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1 hour ago, Hitchhiker said:

There is no standard that I am aware of that calls for double clamping hull plumbing hoses.  Fuel tank fill hoses on the other hand............

ABYC standard has been for double clamps below the waterline like, forever. Hope you dont plan on getting an insurance survey any time soon! https://www.boats.com/how-to/double-hose-clamps-abyc-required/

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5 hours ago, Zonker said:

I've had to cut hoses but there are these magic tools for removing stubborn hoses. They are for working with car radiator hoses and the top one is more useful but they do work.

 

image.png.5d47ae06bb1943e2ab204ff568a5523a.png

Zonker, you've earned your keep for the month.  I'm getting ready to replaceable the engine hoses and these look like just the ticket.  Heck, I worked for several years as an ASE auto mechanic, but never encountered these.  However, that was many decades ago.  New tool tech!

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From this site:

https://pbase.com/mainecruising/double_hose_clamps

 

MYTH: "The surveyor flagged our boat for not having two hose clamps for a below water line seacock? The insurance company is now insisting we install two hose clamps based on ABYC standards."
 
TRUTH: Two hose clamps are not required for seacocks under the ABYC standards. Double hose clamps are required for fuel fills, both gasoline & diesel, and for exhaust hose but not for seacocks
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7 hours ago, Mark Set said:

ABYC standard has been for double clamps below the waterline like, forever. Hope you dont plan on getting an insurance survey any time soon! https://www.boats.com/how-to/double-hose-clamps-abyc-required/

Are you positive about that?

https://www.boats.com/how-to/hose-clamps-surveyors-and-the-abyc/

 

 

 

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I am astonished that manufacturers have not moved to putting the seacocks in more accessible locations. Each one I have had the raw water one was buried under berths and mattresses. This encourages you not to use it! 

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On 5/26/2021 at 1:34 PM, Zonker said:

keeps the valve moving

here endith the lesson

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2 minutes ago, danstanford said:

I am astonished that manufacturers have not moved to putting the seacocks in more accessible locations. Each one I have had the raw water one was buried under berths and mattresses. This encourages you not to use it! 

want to have a little think about this ?

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Perhaps you could do the thinking for me. If the thru-hull were moved more to the center line on two of the ones I had, while still at the same height relative to the engine I could have reached it from under the engine cover. 

Why wouldn't this work? 

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24 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Why wouldn't this work? 

It would , my point is that the thru hulls are fitted before the furniture not after .

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18 hours ago, Zonker said:

I've had to cut hoses but there are these magic tools for removing stubborn hoses. They are for working with car radiator hoses and the top one is more useful but they do work.

 

image.png.5d47ae06bb1943e2ab204ff568a5523a.png

I have a 30 year old Snap-on Brake Tool which does the trick as well. It is also beyond useful for pulling cotter pins.

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thanks for all the answers.... keep in mind that I close ALL big red lever thru hulls every weekend.  The only one I have question about i s the pitifull small on the saildrive raw water intake . it takes 40 ? ???  turns   

its basically internally and no lines are attached  .... hence I assume that the water circulated within the motor above the waterline before it gets to the waterpump and eventually back out the exhaust ... 

Thanks Thor

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4 hours ago, danstanford said:

I am astonished that manufacturers have not moved to putting the seacocks in more accessible locations. Each one I have had the raw water one was buried under berths and mattresses. This encourages you not to use it! 

That's one of the nicest design bits on a friends 38' Hunter. The galley and head are on either side of side the companionway and the engine is under it so all the seacocks, filters etc.  are gathered in a well under the galley sole.

All labelled and super easy access. Keeps the hose runs as short as possible too.

Naturally the naysayers criticize this as a weak spot in the hull but after more than a decade of sailing on it I can declare that attitude to be unmitigated bullshit.

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59 minutes ago, THOR said:

its basically internally and no lines are attached  .... hence I assume that the water circulated within the motor above the waterline before it gets to the waterpump and eventually back out the exhaust ... 

Thanks Thor

My experience with Yanmar saidrives is limited, but I have never seen a set up like you describe. The raw water intake looks to be part of a T fitting with a hose off the opposite side that runs to the raw water pump, hopefully with a strainer in-between. If it is all internal there would be no way to have a strainer and the set up for the raw water pump would have to be completely different than any small marine diesel I have seen.

Is it possible the prior owner bypassed the intake built into the saildive and the boat now has a dedicated seacock through the hull to the water pump? In that case the gate valve fitting on the saildrive would be non-functional and should always be closed.

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On 5/25/2021 at 2:36 PM, Overbored said:

Close it. if the hose leaks, comes off  or the pump leaks it is going down. check to see if your Yanmar valve closes all the way and actually stops the water. I have had  valve that seemed to work and close but it was not closing at all. it closed down to about 1/4" still open and was still open enough to run the engine. older boats we would hang the start key on the thur hull so we did not forget to open the valve. can't do that on the new Yanmar , no key, so we do the same thing with a key float as a reminder 

i still close water intake and hang my key on it

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's one of the nicest design bits on a friends 38' Hunter. The galley and head are on either side of side the companionway and the engine is under it so all the seacocks, filters etc.  are gathered in a well under the galley sole.

All labelled and super easy access. Keeps the hose runs as short as possible too.

Naturally the naysayers criticize this as a weak spot in the hull but after more than a decade of sailing on it I can declare that attitude to be unmitigated bullshit.

Similar to a sea chest on a ship? 

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5 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

Similar to a sea chest on a ship? 

No, just the usual assortment of seacocks for different functions, just all gathered in one tidy and convenient place.

A sea chest setup like Bob put on the carbon cutters would be even better but pretty well requires a bigger boat.

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When I bought my boat, PO said he didn’t close the seacocks in 20 years. One for the galley, two for the head. (No inboard motor.)

I think I’ll leave them in their, ummm, natural position for this season and will have a closer look next winter... :rolleyes: 

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