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update from RC...all boats will be sailing the short course (Plum Island course)  and not leave LIS....

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Looking like it is going to be sporty out there.  Will be cold tomorrow night too.  Not sure I am even going to bother getting out of my foulies after they go on, except maybe to change to a dry shirt.

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How does one get to join the storm try sail club if you don’t even get a chance to use your try sail ? 
 

on the bright side I’ll be home sooner 

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Well as Butch Ulmer rightly pointed out. With modern forecasting and a more litigious society, the chances of race committees sending boats off into the potential of being in harms way, it was only a matter of time before STC would cease to exist.  Thus the bylaws were changed to include 'sailing in significant conditions under greatly reduced sail' as the standard for membership.

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Block Island Race Cancelled:  Oakcliff invites ALL competitors to meet at MidSound Buoy 32A. Warning Signal at 1pm - Start at 1:05.  Course is: upwind until you have sailed with #3, changed to #4, put up Storm Jib and Storm TrySail and then friggin' send it back downwind with A4s only.   Finish line is a far as you want to go ...and then motor home.  Please Check in with Oakcliff RC VHF 69

.

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9 minutes ago, dacapo said:

Block Island Race Cancelled:  Oakcliff invites ALL competitors to meet at MidSound Buoy 32A. Warning Signal at 1pm - Start at 1:05.  Course is: upwind until you have sailed with #3, changed to #4, put up Storm Jib and Storm TrySail and then friggin' send it back downwind with A4s only.   Finish line is a far as you want to go ...and then motor home.  Please Check in with Oakcliff RC VHF 69

.

Are you serious about this?

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Maybe STC needs to strike the burgee and call it a day.
A once great sailing club is going the way of The Corinthians.
Dang shame and dang embarrassing to call the race because the forecast calls for the breeze to get up to 20 knots.

What the hell ever happened to, "A boat shall start or continue at the skipper's discretion"?

Letters will be written. 

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50 minutes ago, sunseeker said:

Are you serious about this?

it came for Oakcliff facebook page...and IYAC reposted

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11 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Well at least everyone will get a full entry fee refund, so that’s good. 

Well thank goodness they didn't cancel the party..... as per the newsletter received this morning.

Mr. Caesar, it isn't about the damn party!

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4 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

WLIS buoy yesterday afternoon

 

dawn.jpg

We practiced for a few hours, tested a few sails.  Our instruments read into the mid-20' but might have been over-reading a bit.  Definitely not boat-breaking conditions.  Kudos to Dawn for getting her teams some useful experience.  
I see both sides to the cancelation.  I lean towards "Should have started" -- but that's a cheap vote after the fact.  

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The problem is not the boats breaking

mostly it's the people

I saw 46 degrees when i woke up this morning at about 6am at my house close to LIS.

It was _pouring_ rain last night.

It blew sustained 30kts at the turning mark for a while last night

waves were probably 6-8ft

46 degrees + 30kts + heavy rain + getting soaked by waves = possible hypothermia for crew on the rail for hours of upwind sailing.

How many people even own appropriate foul weather gear for those conditions? Even crew in the cockpit were going to get soaked.

I was on a boat with a hypothermic crew in temperatures warmer than last night. The guy barely knew his own name and had a lot of difficulty speaking. It ended up that he was okay, but I was scared.

I'm not saying I fully support the STC decision, but I don't think it was completely wrong either.

Certainly some boats were ready, with people and equipment, to do the race safely, and one can always argue that it's up to the boats who aren't equipped to know who they are and stay home.

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1 hour ago, us7070 said:

The problem is not the boats breaking

mostly it's the people

I saw 46 degrees when i woke up this morning at about 6am at my house close to LIS.

It was _pouring_ rain last night.

It blew sustained 30kts at the turning mark for a while last night

waves were probably 6-8ft

46 degrees + 30kts + heavy rain + getting soaked by waves = possible hypothermia for crew on the rail for hours of upwind sailing.

How many people even own appropriate foul weather gear for those conditions? Even crew in the cockpit were going to get soaked.

I was on a boat with a hypothermic crew in temperatures warmer than last night. The guy barely knew his own name and had a lot of difficulty speaking. It ended up that he was okay, but I was scared.

I'm not saying I fully support the STC decision, but I don't think it was completely wrong either.

Certainly some boats were ready, with people and equipment, to do the race safely, and one can always argue that it's up to the boats who aren't equipped to know who they are and stay home.

Shite..... I remember rounding Block in a snow squall back in like 1973. Spinnaker up, very reduced visibility and decent breeze.

Again, continuing to race is at the skipper's discretion, not the PRO or RC.

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Like a dozen and a half years ago, back when MBYC Fall Series was near its pinnacle, the forecast was for breeze in the low 20's with pops into the low 30's.

MBYC pulled the trigger and killed the racing...... letters were written and from that point forward Fall Series has lost its sparkle.

We were sailing on an Express 37 and while heading back into the harbor, Rich DuMoulin came along side in Lora Ann and hailed us. He suggested we take Soulmates back out, with the crews of the two boat combined (those who desired) and sail under storm trysail and storm jib.

About 2/3s the combined crew participated and IIRC we sailed for 4+ hours in the western sound in 25-35 knots of breeze.

There was not a person who didn't learn some, and some a great deal, about sailing under reduced canvass in higher than normal conditions.

Tip of the hat to Ms. Riley. She got this exactly right. The reason people get hurt and boats break in heavy weather is because they have not worked to develop the skillsets necessary to sail safe.

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I'm getting worried about STC Block Island Race Week. If the races are cancelled each day that the wind exceeds 20 knots, there may not be any racing at all. 

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4 minutes ago, mcg00 said:

I'm getting worried about STC Block Island Race Week. If the races are cancelled each day that the wind exceeds 20 knots, there may not be any racing at all. 

 

In fairness to STC.., the forecast was not 20kts...

the friday morning forecast for the PI mark from say 2am to 5am when most of the boats would have been there was ~30-35 kt gusting 45kt, with gusts of 50 possible. pouring rain, air temp in mid-high 40's, so wind chill in 30's

Visibility would have been pretty close to 0 in heavy rain, with boats going downwind at 15kts plus BSP into boats still coming upwind.

I was out on the water Saturday afternoon - the notion that the conditions then were anything like what was happening later than night out east is entirely wrong.

Saturday afternoon on WLIS was 15-20, seas 2-3ft, still pretty warm and sunny - a beautiful day for sailing

So, again - I'm not saying I am 100% comfortable with the STC decision - but let's not keep saying they cancelled for 20kts.

I would have done the race with complete confidence in the crew and the boat that I was racing with.

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Seaworthiness is worth discussing here. In my opinion, boats are becoming less seaworthy. People entering day race boats in races where it regularly blows 25+ kts should be ready to drop out before starting in those conditions.

If STC is going to claim that many crews in the fleet are inexperienced in those conditions, as a predication for cancelation, they should also shine the light on themselves and their stipulations for entering a boat in a race. 

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Seaworthiness is worth discussing here. In my opinion, boats are becoming less seaworthy. People entering day race boats in races where it regularly blows 25+ kts should be ready to drop out before starting in those conditions.

If STC is going to claim that many crews in the fleet are inexperienced in those conditions, as a predication for cancelation, they should also shine the light on themselves and their stipulations for entering a boat in a race. 

From the STC site:

“The Storm Trysail Club — open only to those sailors who had proved capable of handling themselves offshore in the worst weather imaginable.”

canceling an offshore regatta they are sponsoring because of weather diminishes their brand

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5 minutes ago, sailman said:

From the STC site:

“The Storm Trysail Club — open only to those sailors who had proved capable of handling themselves offshore in the worst weather imaginable.”

canceling an offshore regatta they are sponsoring because of weather diminishes their brand

I think it curious that STC decided a letter of explanation necessary to the membership. Sort of screams that some found their inboxes filled this morning.
I also thought it interesting that only the commodore, vice and rear's names appeared as signatories of said letter.......

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This race requires either a #4 jib or a storm jib and second reef as a condition of entry. On our sail chart, the #4 starts at 28 and goes past 40. With a second reef kicking in at 30 and going just as far. We put up the #4 and SJ the weekend before this event based on long range forecasts to ensure that we had the proper lead settings noted. We put up the ST and noted some changes we wanted done by the loft before the race for ease of use and those were done by Friday AM. 

Other participating boats were seen to be practicing their setups in April and early-May 

This decision was a major statement to two groups: It tells owners and crews who put their time and money into preparing for offshore sailing that those efforts are not taken seriously by organizers. Then it tells owners and crews who choose to not prepare for those conditions that they will be covered and cut slack for doing so. 
 

 

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24 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

........ into preparing for offshore sailing that those efforts are not taken seriously by organizers.

I don't know why people keep referring to the Block Island Race (or Vineyard for that matter) as offshore races, the are coastal at best. When the RC, PRO make a decision to go "short course" they clearly become inshore, overnight races.

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7 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

It was claimed Sailflow reported sustained winds in the 40's (knots)  and gusts over 50 (knots) at both Eatons Neck and Great Gull. However both WLIS and ELIS NOAA buoys show one max gusts at 44 (MPH), with most high gusts in the 30s (MPH) and sustained winds in high 20s (MPH) for the worst period. Wonder what weather stations they used?  I don't think I ever saw any forecast with  a '50' in it and would  agree a postponement is in order if 50 was expected.  Speaking of postponement, a 24 hour postponement would have worked fine and they still could have had a party. Wonder if that was considered?      

How about this for the Vineyard Race which is effectively follows the same mgt.  But its not required for Block.  Last year it was pointed out several  podium finishers did not meet this requirement, but it was not addressed.  Why have it other than to sell seminars if it wont be enforced?  Will they require certificates be produced this year?   15.1 For all classes, at least 75% of those aboard the boat shall have attended a US SAILING Safety at Sea Seminar after December 31,  2014. Such seminars may be attended online (ussailing.org/safety) provided at least 30%, but not fewer than two members of the crew, including the person in charge, have attended an International Offshore Safety at Sea Course with Hands-on Training or a US Sailing sanctioned In-person Offshore Safety at Sea Seminar after December 31, 2014. If the 30% requirement cannot be met due to a “Safety at Sea with hands-on training” course not being available, the requirement may be met by completing the US Sailing “Online Offshore Safety at Sea” course.

Could it be the Around Long Island Race has reclaimed its position as the premier ocean race in the United States?  

Premier ocean race in the US is Transpac. 

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Question is what do these hacks do if it rains and the wind blows 30-40 during the Annapolis to Newport or Bermuda race?

Does everyone just seek shelter? 

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3 hours ago, jesposito said:

Question is what do these hacks do if it rains and the wind blows 30-40 during the Annapolis to Newport or Bermuda race?

Does everyone just seek shelter? 

Are you talking about just the Figawai or everybody?

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4 hours ago, jesposito said:

Question is what do these hacks do if it rains and the wind blows 30-40 during the Annapolis to Newport or Bermuda race?

Does everyone just seek shelter? 

I will Pull into city island and ride bikes with you!    

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7 hours ago, jesposito said:

Question is what do these hacks do if it rains and the wind blows 30-40 during the Annapolis to Newport or Bermuda race?

Does everyone just seek shelter? 

You mean the last A2N race? The fragile and poorly maintained boats broke, the well prepared, sturdy, boats finished in the silver. 

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1) About the STC “diminishing their brand” by canceling the race: I think on the contrary, they acted as people who know what adverse weather is.

For instance, I think that comments above in this thread  on hypothermia are spot on.


2) Yes, Mrs Riley did the right thing sending her boats, in still manageable conditions, to train the crews. Right move indeed, in controlled conditions that were nothing like round BI on early Sat. morning. Please note, she took the care of telling us that the crews were happy to go back to shore when the exercise was done.

3) Regarding how the race would have been in the 70s, 60s...well yes in absence of forecast the start might have been given. My guess is that the racing strategy would have been to take shelter/hove to, etc. when the conditions deteriorated, and resumed at just the right time. If this assumption is correct, that would actually reinforce that these were not condition you race in. 

4) So maybe the attraction is for some to sail into heavy weather ? Well, absolutely nothing was preventing anyone from setting off to Block Friday 14:00. Does anyone has a good report to give us ? 

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Don't know about that. 1972 Vineyard we rounded the tower in 35 knots after beating 48 hours to get to the corner. Set a chicken chute and flew back down to South East corner. Doused and set number 3, doused the main and were back in Stamford in like 12 hours from the tower rounding. This was in a 35 footer that when PHRF came into being rated 120. We rounded with 4 or 5 of our sister ships abreast. As a wee lad doing my first Vineyard back then, it was a great experience.

My Dad and his old salt cronies had things well in hand. Most of the fleet completed the course. IIRC three of the crew on Dad's boat were in the 1960 Bermuda Race which saw them qualify to be STC members. The forecast was well known ahead of time and people came out prepared to race in the conditions forecast. I would argue that with modern forecasting we have better tools now to be at the ready for difficult conditions. Crews that show up ill prepared are not a good excuse for those ready to race being told to go home. That only reinforces folks not being well prepared, ready to race.

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Don't know about that. 1972 Vineyard [snip]

You can't be serious, tough guy, comparing a Vineyard Race to a Block Island Race.

The average water temp in Long Island Sound in May is about 58 degrees F. In September -- when the Vineyard Race happens, as you know -- it is in the 70 degree range. You lose dexterity in less than 15 minutes in May. You get a couple of hours in September.

Subtract a few degrees for Block Island Sound. You might have 5 minutes of dexterity in May.

Water temp is not a factor to be ignored.

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20 hours ago, crashtestdummy said:

I will Pull into city island and ride bikes with you!    

Perfect

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21 hours ago, Parma said:

Are you talking about just the Figawai or everybody?

Not Fagawi

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2 hours ago, sailforbeer said:

You can't be serious, tough guy, comparing a Vineyard Race to a Block Island Race.

The average water temp in Long Island Sound in May is about 58 degrees F. In September -- when the Vineyard Race happens, as you know -- it is in the 70 degree range. You lose dexterity in less than 15 minutes in May. You get a couple of hours in September.

Subtract a few degrees for Block Island Sound. You might have 5 minutes of dexterity in May.

Water temp is not a factor to be ignored.

And besides that, don't the Figawai already live on BI ?

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4 hours ago, sailforbeer said:

You can't be serious, tough guy, comparing a Vineyard Race to a Block Island Race.

The average water temp in Long Island Sound in May is about 58 degrees F. In September -- when the Vineyard Race happens, as you know -- it is in the 70 degree range. You lose dexterity in less than 15 minutes in May. You get a couple of hours in September.

Subtract a few degrees for Block Island Sound. You might have 5 minutes of dexterity in May.

Water temp is not a factor to be ignored.

Well the water temp is a valid point. In those conditions you should be clipped in in any event and PHRF Regs IIRC require it in those conditions.
Again, the point is if people never ever sail in trying conditions, they will never develop the skillset to survive in more extreme conditions.

As for the tough guy swipe, meh.

 

And no Parma, the Figawi are from a bit more to the east.

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On 5/31/2021 at 10:19 AM, Parma said:

What is Figawai

where the figawi ?   its in Haaaaavad yahhhhd

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https://wetasschronicles.substack.com/p/feeling-abandoned

 

more on the abandonment....

Quote

 But reality set in when I listened in to a weather briefing call by Ken Campbell of Commander’s Weather on Thursday morning, as I drove north.

Campbell explained that we were basically looking at a winter weather pattern, when coastal lows and strong northeasterlies commonly pound the Atlantic coast. He warned that the highest winds would occur when the fleet was most exposed in Block Island Sound, that wind chills would be in the 30s, and that we might see short 10-foot waves exiting Long Island Sound, where the highest tides of the year would be ebbing hard against the strong easterlies. “In the 30 years I have been doing this, I’ve seen worse,” he said. “But this looks pretty bad.” For good measure he signed off with a wry “I’m glad I won’t be out there.” Alrighty then.

 

Quote

After the race had been abandoned, the same gentleman was at the club when we returned the Yellowbrick tracker. Curious, I asked him about the decision to abandon, saying “Thirty years ago I can imagine a Race Committee might have simply proceeded with the race and left it up to skippers to decide whether to sail.”

“Well,” he responded. “I have actually been doing this for thirty years, and the big difference is that today we have much better information on what the weather will be.” I hadn’t considered that point, and it is a good one. It is one thing to send a fleet out when there is uncertainty about how bad the weather will be. It is quite another to do the same thing when you know that the weather could be dangerous. He added an additional consideration. “We know our fleet,” he told me. “And there are a lot of new COVID boat owners, and crews that are not that experienced signed up for the race. In these conditions someone would get hurt.”

In short, he finished, to send the fleet out in conditions that had even Ken Campbell shaking his head “would have been irresponsible.”

 

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7 hours ago, Kevlar Edge said:

Covid boat owners? We had a pandemic so I bought a sailboat to race? Is that a thing?

It’s a thing 

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5 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

I also wondered whether the RC might have been able to postpone the start until Saturday noon, when the conditions would still be horrible, but much more sailable. In fact, on Thursday evening, after we had been given our Yellowbrick tracker at the Stamford Yacht Club, I said “Thanks, now where do we go to lobby the Race Committee to postpone the start until Saturday noon.” “I am on the Race Committee,” a friendly guy replied. “But we can only postpone the start to 8 am Saturday, when conditions would still be pretty bad.” I wasn’t sure why the postponement would be limited to 8 am, but appreciated the answer. 

 

Hunter Biden' IPAD was found on the RC boat. Raises some questions the liberal media refuses to address.  

The race organizers said Sailflow stations reported 50 knot gusts seen at Eatons Neck and Great Gull Island. Both historical NOAA weather buoys data in the area say something very different.  

Sat winds incl gusts were 15-20 and little rain 

Was a reason ever given for not being able or willing to postpone? 

Has Commander's ever been wrong?    

 

Has Commander's ever been right?

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4 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

no.. i was trying to be generous and kind.. their fuckups are legendary and often.  the 2016 Bermuda Race was their crowning achievement  

 

He has had a tendency to latch onto and amplify the worst case scenario forecast in the last 5+ years. Perhaps his tendency to do a lot of work routing for cruisers and deliveries has shifted his risk profile to be more conservative.

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18 hours ago, dacapo said:

It’s a thing 

Although it would be fantastic if all those covid owners kept sailing, I'm assuming we are going to have an awesome buyer's market for used boats in 2 years

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42 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Is the rumor true the lawyers have ordered that all race documents will now add 'Weather Permitting' and 'This event may be moved indoors in the event of inclement weather'?  Like a church picnic?   

RC boats on a mill pond

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9 hours ago, PHM said:

 I'm assuming we are going to have an awesome buyer's market for used boats in 2 years

I think that may very well be likely. The conundrum is that although there may be a lot of cheap boats to choose from in 2-3 yrs, the value of your own boat will have also go down so although you may buy cheap you will also have to sell cheap likely resulting in a zero benefit

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