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I’m not sure if you’ve seen the FP post (https://sailinganarchy.com/2021/05/31/sharkskin/) but Shockwave is for sale. I’ve had the opportunity to sail on her a lot over the last 10 years and she might be my favorite boat. Luckily the owner has asked me to help sell her. The boat is tough as nails, fast, and A LOT more comfortable down below than you’d expect. She deserves a great home and will be a great purchase for someone. 
 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2010/marsaudon-composites-trimaran-3840783/

 

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The boat is absolutely stunning!

I spent a couple hours in my dinghy taking pictures and studying her when she was new out of the box in Newport, RI, I guess ten years ago. Since then she has been fine tuned for the target purpose just getting better and better.

Wish I was 20 years younger - - -

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54 minutes ago, boardhead said:

The boat is absolutely stunning!

I spent a couple hours in my dinghy taking pictures and studying her when she was new out of the box in Newport, RI, I guess ten years ago. Since then she has been fine tuned for the target purpose just getting better and better.

Wish I was 20 years younger - - -

And about $1.5 million richer with spare change annual cash flow of about $200K to run it LOL.

Anyone want to take a guess at what the actual selling price ends up being?  Cool boat and rare bird but needs a unique owner.   More or less than half actual asking price?

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The price is a steal Wess and if I was 20 years younger $200k annually would run it but going on 70 the necessary help would swell the annual cost.

Hope somebody with funds and youth steps up.

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Oh the price is worth it from a replacement value standpoint I am sure.  Problem is that has little to do with selling price. Heck you are seeing this with your's, no?  Cruisers sell better than racers sell better than boats that try to be both (to varying degrees of success).

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Anyone want to take a guess at what the actual selling price ends up being?  Cool boat and rare bird but needs a unique owner.   More or less than half actual asking price?

I’m optimistic. There are lots of busted up old ORMA’s around for sale cheap, but they’re all on the wrong side of a 7-digit refit.
 

The MODs trade in that range...but the cost of ownership of a MOD is significantly higher. The problem with a MOD is most owners can’t drive them, and if they do drive then they need to hire Brian Thompson and his boys to keep the boat upright. Anyone can drive Shockwave up to about 22 knots TWS with full sail. 

The GBs and HH’s trade at 2x-4x Shockwave’s asking price. With that said, if you exclude racing from a GB’s budget you could afford Shockwave. 
 

After 20 years of doing this, I think I’d rather have a Sunreef 70 powerboat and Shockwave at 1/2 the combined cost of a GB68 (assuming I had the means). I’d sleep in icy cold silence on the powerboat and top 30 knots every time I go for a rip. 
 

Even if you don’t have “F you” money I still think that in the $1.something price range for a cruising boat (other than Shockwave) you won’t find anything faster than a TS5 and those aren’t THAT quick. Look at Riley and Elayna, they’re getting a Rapido because their Outremer wasn’t fast enough. A Rapido is no faster than a TS. 
 

Basically, Shockwave is the fastest boat that YOU can sail and/or cruise. Beyond that, you have to pay to watch pros sail your boat for you. You want a faster monohull? Hire Kenny Read and 22 of his buddies and go buy Comanche. Want a faster tri? Hire Francois Gabbart and his 5 best friends and get an Ultim. 

 

 


 

 

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4 hours ago, Wess said:

Oh the price is worth it from a replacement value standpoint I am sure.  Problem is that has little to do with selling price. Heck you are seeing this with your's, no?  Cruisers sell better than racers sell better than boats that try to be both (to varying degrees of success).

Really Wess,  forget the bucks, if Shockwave's owner called you and said "Wess, you seem like a nice guy, how about I give you the boat" you still wouldn't want her - would you!

Most of the interested parties who have checked out my boat walked away with big eyes and did not even discuss the price - it's too much boat for them. 

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3 hours ago, soma said:

I’m optimistic. There are lots of busted up old ORMA’s around for sale cheap, but they’re all on the wrong side of a 7-digit refit.
 

The MODs trade in that range...but the cost of ownership of a MOD is significantly higher. The problem with a MOD is most owners can’t drive them, and if they do drive then they need to hire Brian Thompson and his boys to keep the boat upright. Anyone can drive Shockwave up to about 22 knots TWS with full sail. 

The GBs and HH’s trade at 2x-4x Shockwave’s asking price. With that said, if you exclude racing from a GB’s budget you could afford Shockwave. 
 

After 20 years of doing this, I think I’d rather have a Sunreef 70 powerboat and Shockwave at 1/2 the combined cost of a GB68 (assuming I had the means). I’d sleep in icy cold silence on the powerboat and top 30 knots every time I go for a rip. 
 

Even if you don’t have “F you” money I still think that in the $1.something price range for a cruising boat (other than Shockwave) you won’t find anything faster than a TS5 and those aren’t THAT quick. Look at Riley and Elayna, they’re getting a Rapido because their Outremer wasn’t fast enough. A Rapido is no faster than a TS. 
 

Basically, Shockwave is the fastest boat that YOU can sail and/or cruise. Beyond that, you have to pay to watch pros sail your boat for you. You want a faster monohull? Hire Kenny Read and 22 of his buddies and go buy Comanche. Want a faster tri? Hire Francois Gabbart and his 5 best friends and get an Ultim. 

 

 


 

 

Soma, I read your intro to the boat on YachtWorld and it reads pretty darn factually. Shockwave is just amazing, the knowledge, effort and bucks that went into her creation and development are so impressive. Too much boat for me at this point in my life I wish you luck with the sale, just needs the right person to spot her.

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13 hours ago, Wess said:

Anyone want to take a guess at what the actual selling price ends up being?  Cool boat and rare bird but needs a unique owner.   More or less than half actual asking price?

Judging by Rapido 60 being listed at €1.9m at first and then selling recently at <€800k, I’ll take the under. But who knows, right? Trimarans are for dreamers, and dreamers are all over the place. Just very few of them seem left nowadays. 

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Fantastic boat - but the styling - I would change that. How much would it cost to rewrapping it? 

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4 hours ago, SeaGul said:

Fantastic boat - but the styling - I would change that. How much would it cost to rewrapping it? 

The original sexy gray is still underneath. 

62119CA8-70C0-4950-A6AC-AFE01B215BF7.png

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17 minutes ago, soma said:

The chrome + shark was $60k all in. 

Cool indeed and noted well Your numbers with thanks! Seems like those wrapping service sellers there in France are trying to flay our skin off for our cat. 

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Some serious name dropping there!!!

Shockwave is definitely a sexy boat. If it was me and the wife only, that's what I would sail, with a yellow wrap of course :-)

Where do you get her hauled?

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6 minutes ago, steelmadesteamer said:

Cool indeed and noted well Your numbers with thanks! Seems like those wrapping service sellers there in France are trying to flay our skin off for our cat. 

About 15k here in the US for a 57ft cat.

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One of my favorite Irens designs.

 

Interesting to know the difference in weight and systems from the original owners build, to where she is now.

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16 hours ago, boardhead said:

Really Wess,  forget the bucks, if Shockwave's owner called you and said "Wess, you seem like a nice guy, how about I give you the boat" you still wouldn't want her - would you!

Most of the interested parties who have checked out my boat walked away with big eyes and did not even discuss the price - it's too much boat for them. 

LOL, had this exact conversation at friends retirement party last night.

It is a strange thing to be looking at the thread that involves two of about 6 boats the wife and I have lusted over 35 years together.  They include in rough order 1) your Skateaway (still in love but just not cruisable enough for us... but still our first lust), 2) CW Hammerhead (still in lust/love I suspect), 3) GB 48 (now out of love... ), 4) the now Shockwave, 5) Finn (fell out of love fast... just too big and complex) 6) Three Little Birds (lost track of her and still the one that comes closest to perfect... if only she folded and could be trailered).  There are also a few CW Atlantic cats we like but in general we like tris more than cats it turns out.

Its odd to be at a place and time in life where we could actually own one of them but strangely find ourselves very happy with what we have (which we love but doesn't have the lust factor of those above).  We want and wanted a boat that is/has 1.) great sailing boat that we could sail ourselves in any conditions, 2.) has very few complex systems and certainly absolutely no power assisted sail handling or steering (which really limits boat size), 3.) has just enough amenities and comfort for us to extended coastal cruise for few week while consistent with #2 KISS concept, and 4.) could easily be moved from US east to west coast (optional but desired).  Put those four together and you can see why we sail what we sail.

So yea, I suspect you are right about Shockwave and us.  It is likely lust not love LOL.  Likely fails on both our first and second criteria.  And a trip to Croatia to find out is not high on the list right now.

We want to see the Rapido and how that works and/or may do a custom one off build (but we both view this as last resort and fear the process as a nightmare).  About the only thing we don't like about tris (but do about cats) is the bridgedeck living and sheltered helm option that comes w that platform and usually doesn't w tris.

Anyway back to Shockwave.  Somebody is going to end up with a cool boat!

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46 minutes ago, mpenman said:

Where do you get her hauled?

It’s actually pretty easy. Everywhere in the world has big cranes. The harder part is a big concrete apron, but that’s not that hard. The cranes aren’t bad for cost. 

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I've been in love with Paradox/Shockwave since the last time she was for sale. Incredible boat and a bargain at the asking price. First saw her anchored next to us in Antigua and then later at Los Cabos as she prepped for the Transpac. Anyone considering a Rapido 60 should give this one a close look.

I do hope the new owner gets rid of the cheesy shark jaws wrap.

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LOL, the wife and I are weird I guess.  We love the chrome/shark wrap!! 

Sexy grey??  I don't know if that is a thing @soma LOL.

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44 minutes ago, Wess said:

6) Three Little Birds (lost track of her and still the one that comes closest to perfect... if only she folded and could be trailered). 

She's just got repainted and is sitting at the ACC yard in Bristol. Saw her about two weeks ago. She's a great boat (going up for sale I believe) and has nice liveaboard space for a couple. In the open ocean, shockwave is what I would want.

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1 minute ago, mpenman said:

She's just got repainted and is sitting at the ACC yard in Bristol. Saw her about two weeks ago. She's a great boat (going up for sale I believe) and has nice liveaboard space for a couple. In the open ocean, shockwave is what I would want.

Thank you for the heads up.

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21 hours ago, soma said:

Look at Riley and Elayna, they’re getting a Rapido because their Outremer wasn’t fast enough. 

 

 


 

 

Is the cat out of the bag now?

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On 6/1/2021 at 2:35 PM, soma said:

The MODs trade in that range...but the cost of ownership of a MOD is significantly higher. The problem with a MOD is most owners can’t drive them, and if they do drive then they need to hire Brian Thompson and his boys to keep the boat upright. Anyone can drive Shockwave up to about 22 knots TWS with full sail. 

 

What's the difference in mast height and sail area v. a MOD70 or ORMA60?  Or is there some other difference that makes shockwave more amateur friendly?

Mighty Merloe has been for sale for 2 years.  Lots of expensive Frenchmen required as you pointed out and you have to shit in a bucket.

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16 hours ago, longy said:

Changing boats won't make them any faster.

That is funny. About lost my coffee reading that.  Well done.  I was wondering if Soma's was tongue in cheek or throwing share at Outremer (but think he owns one so doubt that).  But what cruiser wants to go faster than an Outremer can go??

7 hours ago, eastern motors said:

What's the difference in mast height and sail area v. a MOD70 or ORMA60?  Or is there some other difference that makes shockwave more amateur friendly?

Mighty Merloe has been for sale for 2 years.  Lots of expensive Frenchmen required as you pointed out and you have to shit in a bucket.

Yea but at least MM can win races and/or take line honors (if you are into that kinda thing and like paying expensive Frenchmen to hang out with you as you point out)!

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9 hours ago, eastern motors said:

What's the difference in mast height and sail area v. a MOD70 or ORMA60?  Or is there some other difference that makes shockwave more amateur friendly?


Here’s a good article from Louay Habib interviewing Cam Lewis (with some additional background on the boat). I think SW’s full main is a MODs 2nd reef. Basically, SW has the same RM as an ORMA. 

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/research/paradox-building-a-dream-yacht/

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

That is funny. About lost my coffee reading that.  Well done.  I was wondering if Soma's was tongue in cheek or throwing share at Outremer (but think he owns one so doubt that).  But what cruiser wants to go faster than an Outremer can go??

I own an Outremer but I’d fall over myself to own a tougher, faster boat. There just aren’t any...under $1m at least. 
 

I find the general sailing community is seemingly really happy with (and accepting of) going slow. My O55 is reportedly the fastest Outremer model, faster than the 5X/51/49 etc. We are routinely the fastest sailboat on the horizon. We recently beat a larger buddy boat by 12 hours on a 12 hour passage. With that said, I’m left hungry for more speed. I can’t blame LSV, either, for wanting a faster boat. The O45 is probably painfully slow compared to her bigger sisters. Riley sailed on Shockwave in the Azores and he loved it. 
 

I guess my exposure to fast, tough boats has ruined me. Shockwave/Paradox is shockingly tough. Before we broke the boom in St. Martin (which was user error) we’d only broken one cable tie in my +/- 5000 miles aboard. And we pushed that boat HARD. I was aboard in the photo below trimming the trav. I remember the wave, the helicopter overhead, and feeling of “meh, that wasn’t bad” as we rumbled over the wave. 

image.jpeg.4a0920ab6b415e5b5aa141600fda50ba.jpeg

This is a good video highlighting the strengths (and weaknesses) of the MOD. Like the MOD, SW can be sailed hard by few people and usually it’s just a quick wash down and your done. 
 

 

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....abit underpowered?? some 360kg righting moment  pr. m2 sail upwind....   smaller yellow tri has just 68kg/m2 sail.  

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Power play is another one of my favorite trimarans.... :wub:

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3 hours ago, soma said:

I own an Outremer but I’d fall over myself to own a tougher, faster boat. There just aren’t any...under $1m at least. 
 

I find the general sailing community is seemingly really happy with (and accepting of) going slow. My O55 is reportedly the fastest Outremer model, faster than the 5X/51/49 etc. We are routinely the fastest sailboat on the horizon. We recently beat a larger buddy boat by 12 hours on a 12 hour passage. With that said, I’m left hungry for more speed. I can’t blame LSV, either, for wanting a faster boat. The O45 is probably painfully slow compared to her bigger sisters. Riley sailed on Shockwave in the Azores and he loved it. 
 

I guess my exposure to fast, tough boats has ruined me. Shockwave/Paradox is shockingly tough. Before we broke the boom in St. Martin (which was user error) we’d only broken one cable tie in my +/- 5000 miles aboard. And we pushed that boat HARD. I was aboard in the photo below trimming the trav. I remember the wave, the helicopter overhead, and feeling of “meh, that wasn’t bad” as we rumbled over the wave. 

image.jpeg.4a0920ab6b415e5b5aa141600fda50ba.jpeg

This is a good video highlighting the strengths (and weaknesses) of the MOD. Like the MOD, SW can be sailed hard by few people and usually it’s just a quick wash down and your done. 
 

 

OK you are out there doing it right now and I am not.  Its been a long time since we did.  But I gotta ask...  re "I own an Outremer but I’d fall over myself to own a tougher, faster boat"... really?  I mean really??  Your wife and kids and even you really seriously want to cruise Shockwave fast?

Not calling you out here; its just I struggle to understand that from our context.  True its been decades since we offshore cruised a multi but we spent a lot of time trying to slow down so this just doesn't compute.  Fast is often uncomfortable.  Have hull shapes improved so much that sea-kindliness is just a given at any speed now?  Didn't the guy that owned Powerplay (the boat in the video you posted) get injured when the boat jumped of a wave or something? Fast stresses gear and break boats but more importantly breaks people in my experience.  I mean if I am out racing, or out for a daysail blast... hell yes. But Mom, Pop and kid offshore cruising???

Hope this comes across right because I trust your experience but that was just so divorced from my own experience I have to ask...

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I'll answer for Soma. 

Sailing in it's purest form is awesome. To push a boat to it's limits and get 'x' miles per day requires a boat designed and built for that. Not many are.

Outremer, especially Soma's boat, is a great, great boat that sails very well. Give Soma the same boat, but tougher/stronger and most importantly lighter and stronger, and he will take it to the edge and then some. That's the nirvana he's searching for. Shockwave is that boat. His wife I guarantee has already poo pooed that idea........go M!!!

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17 hours ago, Wess said:

But are you seriously saying you want to cruise with your wife and kids much faster than your Outremer goes??

If I could? Hell yeah! 
 

I think you think that sailing fast is harder/tougher/more stressful than it is. I think the key is sailing at ~70% of righting moment, not 99%. On a FAST boat 70% of RM can be quick  

We did 400+ nm on a GB62 and it was buttery! No stress, just sustained 17-20 knots for 24 hours. No one on the sheets, autopilot driving. Lots of reserve stability. 
 

Shockwave will sit on 25 knots all day long @ +/-70% of RM and be 100% in control. There might be one perfunctory person on watch with them, but they really just feed info and fetch snacks and drinks for the driver. 

There is an exception to that, though. The turbo’d GBs are dangerous and need attention. The non-turbo GBs flew a hull at 25+ knots TWS. The newer turbo’d boats will fly a hull in 10-12 TWS and 70% of max RM is the same performance as the non-turbo versions. To get that “these go to 11” performance on a turbo’d GB-style cat you NEED to go to the edge. That’s sketchy. I’m doing the delivery on Nemo (HH66 with 31m rig) next week. Forecast is calling for squalls up to 35 knots. That’ll require attention for sure. 
 

We had a nice downwind sail from Long Island (Bahamas) to Georgetown on our boat yesterday. 30 nm trip. We averaged maybe 11 knots on the course. Not bad. The way my boat sits at 9-12 knots of boatspeed, though, is the way a Gunboat will sit at 14-17, or Shockwave will sit at 24-27. 

As far as Mer goes, we’d both dream of cruising Shockwave...except we have a 3 and 6-yr old. If they were your kids ages, Mike, then I think we’d say yeah. There just isn’t enough room for Legos and fingerpainting and all the kindergarten activities. Our Outremer does that well. Lots of Formica, a big salon table, lots of shade. 

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1 hour ago, soma said:

We had a nice downwind sail from Long Island (Bahamas) to Georgetown on our boat yesterday. 30 nm trip. We averaged maybe 11 knots on the course. Not bad. The way my boat sits at 9-12 knots of boatspeed, though, is the way a Gunboat will sit at 14-17, or Shockwave will sit at 24-27. 

What would you expect from a Rapido 60 or a TS5?

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9 minutes ago, Mordoc said:

What would you expect from a Rapido 60 or a TS5?

If we were doing 9-12 on my O55 and a GB could’ve done 14-17, then I’d expect 12-14 from the Rapido and/or TS? Shockwave would’ve been doing 20’s the whole time, maybe touching 30’s. 
 

I’ve raced against both a TS5 and a Rapido 60 on a stock GB62. They are about even with each other, and were on the heels of the GB. In theory the Rapido has ALOT more speed potential in breeze but that hasn’t been proven on the race course yet. 
 

In Les Voiles a TS started 10 minutes ahead of us in all 5(?) races, winds sorta 10-20+. We would stare at their transom most of the race, needing 2-3 hours to get around them. I was dead impressed, and fell in love with them as a result. 
 

Speaking of race results, the Loro Piano SuperYacht race is going on. Allegra vs GB6801 vs HH6601. Closer than I’d expect. 

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6 hours ago, soma said:

If we were doing 9-12 on my O55 and a GB could’ve done 14-17, then I’d expect 12-14 from the Rapido and/or TS? Shockwave would’ve been doing 20’s the whole time, maybe touching 30’s. 
 

I’ve raced against both a TS5 and a Rapido 60 on a stock GB62. They are about even with each other, and were on the heels of the GB. In theory the Rapido has ALOT more speed potential in breeze but that hasn’t been proven on the race course yet. 

Its clear that Shockwave has extreme stability  - how would you say the safety is there compared to GB62 - even the tri goes faster - I would prefer to be on that one  - just for safety. And yes the Rapido 60 should have a lot potential - it has more upwind sail than SW but are 3m narrower at around the same weight - The GB62 seem also to have more upwind sail than SW - at 16t and 8,7m    TS5 is around 10t at 8,6m wide and 50ft long - less sail area.   

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Lets assume that MOCRA ratings are right-ish. See the hierarchy below. 
 

Gunboat 66 (stock) 1.225
Gunboat 62 (stock) 1.239

Gunboat 55 (stock) 1.280

Hh66 (stock) 1.282

Corsair 880 1.296 (Ouch)

TS5 1.323

Outremer 55 Light 1.364 (ouch!) 

Outremer 5X 1.373

Gunboat 60 (turbo) 1.376

Gunboat 66 (turbo) 1.395

Allegra 1.433

Gunboat 62 (turbo) 1.473
Rapido (stock) 1.486

Fujin 1.523

HH66 (turbo) 1.551 (ouch)

Shockwave 1.6

Falcon (G4/F4) 1.622

Above Shockwave and the F4 you have a pretty big gap before you get into the Ultimes and MODs at 2.0+. 
 

As far as safety offshore, Shockwave would be hard to beat. 

 

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9 hours ago, soma said:

If I could? Hell yeah! 
 

I think you think that sailing fast is harder/tougher/more stressful than it is. I think the key is sailing at ~70% of righting moment, not 99%. On a FAST boat 70% of RM can be quick  

We did 400+ nm on a GB62 and it was buttery! No stress, just sustained 17-20 knots for 24 hours. No one on the sheets, autopilot driving. Lots of reserve stability. 
 

Shockwave will sit on 25 knots all day long @ +/-70% of RM and be 100% in control. There might be one perfunctory person on watch with them, but they really just feed info and fetch snacks and drinks for the driver. 

There is an exception to that, though. The turbo’d GBs are dangerous and need attention. The non-turbo GBs flew a hull at 25+ knots TWS. The newer turbo’d boats will fly a hull in 10-12 TWS and 70% of max RM is the same performance as the non-turbo versions. To get that “these go to 11” performance on a turbo’d GB-style cat you NEED to go to the edge. That’s sketchy. I’m doing the delivery on Nemo (HH66 with 31m rig) next week. Forecast is calling for squalls up to 35 knots. That’ll require attention for sure. 
 

We had a nice downwind sail from Long Island (Bahamas) to Georgetown on our boat yesterday. 30 nm trip. We averaged maybe 11 knots on the course. Not bad. The way my boat sits at 9-12 knots of boatspeed, though, is the way a Gunboat will sit at 14-17, or Shockwave will sit at 24-27. 

As far as Mer goes, we’d both dream of cruising Shockwave...except we have a 3 and 6-yr old. If they were your kids ages, Mike, then I think we’d say yeah. There just isn’t enough room for Legos and fingerpainting and all the kindergarten activities. Our Outremer does that well. Lots of Formica, a big salon table, lots of shade. 

You sure know how to tempt a guy (and his wife). 

The challenge here is that even if we could do it, it its 10X the price of what we got and we surprisingly like what we got.  And 10X the the annual operating cost. 

Is it 10X the fun? 

Guessing its maybe 3X faster, 2X more comfortable at anchor, and 0.2X more practical given I can't easily get it from east to west coast US.  But regardless I am glad she is in Croatia because that means there is zero chance we go look and get tempted LOL.

Its also about 5X more likely to kill us LOL. But on the flip side I type that while looking at a GCNP BIC permit to do a winter R2R2R of the Grand Canyon.  My wife's idea strangely enough... and while I am so into it I can't help but wonder is it that or climbing the Grand (Teuton) that will kill me this winter.

Anyway, stop posting, don't send pics, and PLEASE don't bring it to the east coast.  Because if I survive the winter and its still on the market she might talk me into looking (I will try to talk her into Three Little Birds).

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20 minutes ago, Wess said:

You sure know how to tempt a guy (and his wife). 

The challenge here is that even if we could do it, it its 10X the price of what we got and we surprisingly like what we got.  And 10X the the annual operating cost. 

Is it 10X the fun? 

Guessing its maybe 3X faster, 2X more comfortable at anchor, and 0.2X more practical given I can't easily get it from east to west coast US.  But regardless I am glad she is in Croatia because that means there is zero chance we go look and get tempted LOL.

Its also about 5X more likely to kill us LOL. But on the flip side I type that while looking at a GCNP BIC permit to do a winter R2R2R of the Grand Canyon.  My wife's idea strangely enough... and while I am so into it I can't help but wonder is it that or climbing the Grand (Teuton) that will kill me this winter.

Anyway, stop posting, don't send pics, and PLEASE don't bring it to the east coast.  Because if I survive the winter and its still on the market she might talk me into looking (I will try to talk her into Three Little Birds).

FWIW (For you and anyone else)...I have lots of additional photos and a couple of recent walkthrough videos as a proxy for a trip to Croatia. 

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On 6/4/2021 at 8:29 AM, BeatmongerZ said:

I know this is shockwave's thread, but how different is it from something like this 59' Shuttleworth for about $1m less?

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/trimaran-shuttleworth-58-3577464/

This is a gem; very light at 5,5 tons and with the 22m 0,7 rotating carbon wingmast it will be very close to SW in performance in the light stuff. 

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3 hours ago, SeaGul said:

This is a gem; very light at 5,5 tons and with the 22m 0,7 rotating carbon wingmast it will be very close to SW in performance in the light stuff. 

How accurate do you thing that weight number is, with cedar core and all that wood inside?

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That Shuttleworth makes me drool, but it's not in the same league as Paradox. I don't know that much about these big tri's, but Paradox is from a different century.

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58 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

That Shuttleworth makes me drool, but it's not in the same league as Paradox. I don't know that much about these big tri's, but Paradox is from a different century.

Its only 9 yrs different in launch-time - but this Shuttle-drawings must be abit old.... it seems to have som more touring comfort added  - but if the weight is correct its a seawolf.  If the interior-wood is just skins with foam-core - it can be light. 

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

That Shuttleworth makes me drool, but it's not in the same league as Paradox. I don't know that much about these big tri's, but Paradox is from a different century.

Yeah, same feeling here. That Shuttleworth is cool, but the ORMA class that Shockwave was born from was pretty refined. Nigel and Benoit really, really know what they’re doing. Those floats on the Shuttleworth will disappear under water pretty quickly if you lean on them. 
 

Interesting side note, Shockwave’s polars jumped massively after the C-foils were added (after the Paradox 2.0 refit). The ORMA guys said their boats went from mid-20’s for sustained top speeds to 30’s after the c-foil retrofit. The same was true (to a lesser extent) on Paradox.
 

One area we started investigating on Shockwave...and saw huge gains with...was playing with rake angles and foil up/down settings. No one had really methodically investigated optimum settings after the 2.0 refit. We were seeing 20% VMG gains on some points of sail at the end of the season last year. We worked with D3 and SDK to develop a 3D VPP model that I could play with during lockdown. That showed some areas to investigate on the water. We did some organized testing for the week leading up to Middle Sea Race and, yeah, we were way faster at times. That’s a thread that someone (me hopefully) can keep pulling. 

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I was in San Diego for the 2019 Baja HaHa and saw SW on the hard.  Took bunches of pix of it not knowing what it was.  It was still the "sexy gray" then and I was reminded of the term "gray ghost".  Reading the whole thread a couple of things stand out.  If the MOCRA ratings are even remotely correct the Corsair 880 1.296 (Ouch) rating has to be light years ahead of everything else in terms of bang for the buck.  But as the kid who is the skipper of Power Play said when asked about speeds of Bank Pop and PP he noted in a nice sea state PP would give BP a run for the money but in the open ocean BP would likely leave it in the dust.

 

On a personal note I live in the back water of the Florida Gulf Coast and the Florida Middle Keys an often find my old Seawind is the fastest boat in the harbor; but then I don't frequent the big cities.  Not tying to brag cuz I know even a C24 would beat me; just don't see that many of them.  On the other hand I single hand my boat with impunity and have to say at anchor it is usually more comfortable than a friends C31.  After seeing the owner of PP talk about his shoulder injury I am not sure my 75 year old body is ready for something like SW.  But I sure did enjoy taking pix of it.

shockwave.jpg

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2 hours ago, Tomfl said:

After seeing the owner of PP talk about his shoulder injury I am not sure my 75 year old body is ready for something like SW.  But I sure did enjoy taking pix of it.

 

The owner of PP is 80 - so go for it.....   

MOCRA-Ratings: Seacart 30 has 1.574  and a Grainger TR36 has  1.472 - so SW 63 must be very "low" rated at 1,6. 

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On 6/6/2021 at 2:23 AM, SeaGul said:

The owner of PP is 80 - so go for it.....   

MOCRA-Ratings: Seacart 30 has 1.574  and a Grainger TR36 has  1.472 - so SW 63 must be very "low" rated at 1,6. 

Overall I’d say MOCRA does a pretty good job. There are outliers in that list above...a Seacart at 1.574 is TOUGH to sail to. The Outremer 55 has an impossible rating. Nemo will struggle to sail to her rating. Shockwave definitely has a rating that allows wins, that’s for sure.

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One thing I dont get with the MOCRA rating is why not how beamy a multihull is - isnt a factor? In my head its one of the most important factor to how a multi will sail.

 

I just play with some basic stability factors over here - bec the SW is so wide it har extreme stability even its rather light.  The Vagabonde Rapido 60 has  a little less but loaded up a lot.   The 5X has less stability than R60 - and if you load then the R60 will gain even more bec of the wide - and slim amas. So for safety the tri make a very good choice for cruising . I guess the SW would be a little too cramped and dark for living on. To get a little more light in it would make it easier to sell. 

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Rapido 60 GA. One owner's cabin fwd, one double berth cabin aft. Not exactly a recipe for happy kids when they grow up. Fine for when they are little.

Relatively light payload (2000 kg/4400 lbs). I wonder if owners can keep weight off. Don't be loading up the amas with too many spare sails, fenders, inflatable paddle wives, etc. etc.

The mainsail is big. But power halyard winches help.

  • Mainsail: 125m² (1,345 ft²)   

image.thumb.png.fce8ca196948cf69ee124202c1d07520.png

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8 hours ago, SeaGul said:

One thing I dont get with the MOCRA rating is why not how beamy a multihull is - isnt a factor? In my head its one of the most important factor to how a multi will sail.

As you increase the beam, the size of the crossbeams increases non-linearly (thus weight). And also diagonal capsize becomes an issue if you get too wide. 

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

As you increase the beam, the size of the crossbeams increases non-linearly (thus weight). And also diagonal capsize becomes an issue if you get too wide. 

Then we talking more than 1:1 - almost no multis is that wide - the OMRA-60s was 1:1 some of them - and maybe those AC multis of 2010? ..... This is not the reason its not part of the rating. 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/4/2021 at 10:44 AM, soma said:

Lets assume that MOCRA ratings are right-ish. See the hierarchy below. 
 

Gunboat 66 (stock) 1.225
Gunboat 62 (stock) 1.239

Gunboat 55 (stock) 1.280

Hh66 (stock) 1.282

Corsair 880 1.296 (Ouch)

TS5 1.323

Outremer 55 Light 1.364 (ouch!) 

Outremer 5X 1.373

Gunboat 60 (turbo) 1.376

Gunboat 66 (turbo) 1.395

Allegra 1.433

Gunboat 62 (turbo) 1.473
Rapido (stock) 1.486

Fujin 1.523

HH66 (turbo) 1.551 (ouch)

Shockwave 1.6

Falcon (G4/F4) 1.622

Above Shockwave and the F4 you have a pretty big gap before you get into the Ultimes and MODs at 2.0+. 
 

As far as safety offshore, Shockwave would be hard to beat. 

 

Just curious where do you find the Morca #'s?  I found the UK Morca site but no luck with rating numbers. Also, how do some of the Schionning's fit in here. Such as a G force 1500 https://schionningdesign.com/g-force-1500-c/ or a Gforce 1800SSS https://schionningdesign.com/g-force-1800-sss/

I know not many Schionnings are in the Caribbean, but wonder how they compare to the Gunboats.

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16 minutes ago, NOCALSAILOR said:

Just curious where do you find the Morca #'s?  I found the UK Morca site but no luck with rating numbers. Also, how do some of the Schionning's fit in here. Such as a G force 1500 https://schionningdesign.com/g-force-1500-c/ or a Gforce 1800SSS https://schionningdesign.com/g-force-1800-sss/

I know not many Schionnings are in the Caribbean, but wonder how they compare to the Gunboats.

try here https://sites.google.com/site/mocrarating/

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On 6/7/2021 at 8:58 PM, soma said:

Overall I’d say MOCRA does a pretty good job. There are outliers in that list above...a Seacart at 1.574 is TOUGH to sail to. The Outremer 55 has an impossible rating. Nemo will struggle to sail to her rating. Shockwave definitely has a rating that allows wins, that’s for sure.

Seacart is a doddle to sail that hard. ... you just need to be totally 'soft in the head' :-)  
MOCRA is good for cruisers and cruiser-racers.. less so for high performance. Whilst on that , once i owned & raced  the highest MOCA rated multihull in Europe, it was "Charleston" a Formula 28 cat <500kg and 10ft racks, gave time everything, extreme40s (not that extreme to sail) ORMA60s and the then 110ft maxi cats. Now, that was an insane boat near the limit..
we "maxed" her at 32knots and never got near handicap

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I think a schonning G force 18 would rate similar to a Dazcat 1460. (hissyfit eg) 

Mocra rating around 1.29.

Having said that there is a Schonning in California (owned by Bill Gibbs I think) that used to beat the Gunboats on line in the right conditions.

Seacart can sail fast in flat water but not in offshore conditions, they are just too small.

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  • 2 weeks later...

... from the peanut gallery here, an easy little daysail out of Richmond, kindly granted by Paradox's owner because I taped a "can I get a ride?" note on her fender when she was briefly stationed in our marina. Sustained 25 kts with only smaller sail area up was so easy and yet such a thrill. They even let me drive a bit, but she devours yardage so fast that the very crowded Sausalito waterfront got stressful in a hurry. This boat is worlds apart from driving a cruising cat, in my albeit limited experience :)

 

 

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10 hours ago, Ravenswing said:

... from the peanut gallery here, an easy little daysail out of Richmond, kindly granted by Paradox's owner because I taped a "can I get a ride?" note on her fender when she was briefly stationed in our marina. Sustained 25 kts with only smaller sail area up was so easy and yet such a thrill. They even let me drive a bit, but she devours yardage so fast that the very crowded Sausalito waterfront got stressful in a hurry. This boat is worlds apart from driving a cruising cat, in my albeit limited experience :)

 

 

Nice video!

The wrap is gone - are these new owners or is she still for sale?

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52 minutes ago, gspot said:

Nice video!

The wrap is gone - are these new owners or is she still for sale?

This is an old video...she’s still for sale. 
 

Such a wicked boat!

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Amazing tri, love the original colour.

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