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Go the Dragon!

 

sorry about the dupe thread in Ocean A. I always forget to look in here for the shorthanded stuff!

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

Go the Dragon!

 

sorry about the dupe thread in Ocean A. I always forget to look in here for the shorthanded stuff!

 

 

All good.

Should be pretty thrilling! I even have my wife looking. Getting her buy in will be the only way I get permission to do this one if/when I am living closer to the start line. 

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http://www.bermuda1-2.org/

NOTES

 


6/7 1300 - Windswept emailed: The past 20 years of using navigation programs have apparently eroded my manual skills! The old rhyme "West is best, East is least" refers to whether to add or subtract the variation to (from) the true direction to find the magnetic course. Well, I screwed up resulting in my compass course being in error by about 30 degrees. I couldn't understand why I kept getting farther and farther to the left of the rhumb line. I discovered my error using a free compass app that I had loaded on my phone as a hail Mary contingency!
Now, with the wind slowly backing to the South, it is unlikely I will be able to make this up without a long corrective port tack.
Anyway, the weather is beautiful today. Last night I saw the most amazing shooting star against the back drop of the Milky Way!
Young American emailed via Joe Cooper: the update for today is the weather 1  started off nice then the wind crapped out and headed.  there a bunch of thunder clouds and only one did i get to intersect to get better wind for 20-30 min, now back to light but direction is better and holding the A3.  the short bit of rain was nice. still cant get the expedition to down load possition reports so blind.  the 7:00 radio chat i could hear someone but not the other party they were talking to.. I called out 2x both 72 and 16 with no reply.  I must be monkey in the middle.  Tim Kent showed up breifly on AIS as the wind was dieing and he was 15 nm at a bearing just fwd of the beam.  I was 1 kts faster SOG  He was in foul current. Hope all is well ashore - looks like I maybe out for an extra day.
Kiwi Spirit 2 emailed me twice: 1. 3 kts, 2. No wind. Auto-helm not able to steer. Sailing southeast at present. Alls well.  
Kent Racing 
text: Glad to be back...I think that the earlier texts did not have +1 on your number. User error. LIGHT wind - have been using a combination of had and APst (huhn).
Corvus text: 1000 fy (ft?) of sail that wants to sweep you overboard is to drop it in the ocean and winch it back aboard. back to the race.

6/7 0700 - Melantho emailed: Got woken up with a squally wind pattern this morning. All is well. Conditions: Wind W 14 kn Seas 2 - 3 ft. Partially overcast with rain showers visible Water temp 82.0 deg
Dragon emailed: Good morning. Tough night out there. Wind faded around 0100 and went pretty variable at various points.  Several tiring sail changes. Weather is slightly cloudy, minimal wave state and slightly shifty winds. We are in the final push.
Corvus text: nobody in range for radio chat today. All's well on Corvus, am flying the Code zero. Wind 12 kts  at 263.
Adventure-us called: he had been in communication with DAUNTLESS, GLORY, RELENTLESS and HIGHLANDER. He said that all conditions were OK among those boats with whom he had spoken. After a night with light and very shifty winds, the breeze had picked up to 17 knots, so he was hoping to make up time now that the wind has freshened.
Relentless called: confirming that he also had been part of the communications with ADVENTURE-US, DAUNTLESS, GLORY and HIGHLANDER. He reported that weather conditions as “wonderful" at the moment as the winds had shifted and began to pick up between 5 and 6AM, and that it currently is at 272 degrees. He also said that the sky was overcast, but that he is waiting for more squalls to come along, with his hopes that they will help to keep the "Bermuda High" away from the fleet.
Kiwi Spirit emailed: Alls well. Lost some ground overnite but breeze now back in. Many friends watching a yellow brick.

Screen Shot 2021-06-07 at 11.18.41 AM.png

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a general slowdown seems to have happened with the fleet currently. boats not making much progress.

Screen Shot 2021-06-07 at 5.40.56 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-06-07 at 5.40.45 PM.png

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Well done Mr Meat!

linky

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  • 2 weeks later...

bravo Mr Meat!

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Reveille was stupid fast. We led out of the barn and into the first squall. reveille went east hard with a reef in and we lost track of them in about a new york minute. I was happy to be only about 9 hours behind him at the finish. 

A bunch of the class 2 boats got west of rhumb chasing lower current and ended up in a big hole. Claudette gave us all a bit of a scare but for us ended up not being an issue. We finished about 9:30 in the morning on Tuesday, the boats behind got caught in a cold front that changed wind direction from sw to ne for a long cold slog to the finish line.

And poor Windswept only finished this morning :(

 

Edit: Also, on the leg 1 finish, 6 of us finished within 15 minutes of each other. Cepheus finished 1 minute behind me. And of course all at 3 in the morning :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Congrats to all who took part, to Dragon for the line honours, for Windswept for toughing it out and to Young American with Peter and Leah for sweeping the return leg. Both Leah and Cole from Dragon had quite the pile of silverware between them.  

IMG_20210626_183222.jpg

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On 7/4/2021 at 9:11 PM, TANGO QUEBEC said:

Congrats to all who took part, to Dragon for the line honours, for Windswept for toughing it out and to Young American with Peter and Leah for sweeping the return leg. Both Leah and Cole from Dragon had quite the pile of silverware between them.  

IMG_20210626_183222.jpg

This might be the most important post here. Women were underrepresented in this race. I've already started discussions with two of my female skipper friends to get this on their "must do" list. only 3 boats had female co-skippers and none had solo skippers this year. There are far too many talented women out there to sit on the sidelines for events like this.

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26 minutes ago, ryley said:

This might be the most important post here. Women were underrepresented in this race. I've already started discussions with two of my female skipper friends to get this on their "must do" list. only 3 boats had female co-skippers and none had solo skippers this year. There are far too many talented women out there to sit on the sidelines for events like this.

Firstly - to those who did compete congradulations!

Bringing up sex and equality is pretty silly in this context. This race is about affluence and time over access and ability. Too many people including women of means and free time have much better things to do. Those who would have the skill but need to continue with life, family, careers and debts could/would be foolish and selfish to race in total the 1-2. Seriously, who besides the nicely retired and ones of comfort and leasure can toss a month plus away plus expenses to do a race that has no purse, prize, profit or significant self promotion. It is not lost on me how much fauning over the winner Dragon and the other really successful boats in the program - fast new boats sailed by wealthy people who have time win.  This 1-2 race is about folks with time to fuck off, means to put together a winning boat program and basic general skill to sail as well as the time show up for the basic sailing and educational requirements. For the recond many sailors that participated in this event currently have larger breasts than they would admit but that came well earned with age and access.

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Black Jack, I could not agree with you less on nearly every one of your points.

Yes, there are a lot of "old people" who have done this race - two skippers turned 70 during this race and the oldest had them both beat by over a decade. Yes, as much as I respect his ability, I too think there's a bit too much focus on Dragon - although there is no denying he sailed a great race in both directions. But with the exception of Class 5, the boats that lined up are boats that are accessible, manageable, and fun for even mere mortals. Crossing the gulf stream, or for that matter making that 635 mile trip to Bermuda, solo, doublehanded, or even fully crewed is an accomplishment that any sailor should be proud of no matter how many times they've done it. I've made that trip more than a half dozen times now at all different times of the year and it is never routine. The people I'm talking to about this event aren't retired, in fact are in the prime of their careers but also have flexibility to do this race if they so choose. Hell, even I had to log a few days at work between the two legs. But you really need to go back and look at the scratch sheet. The newest boat on the list was a J-121. He did well. So did a J-105. So did a Sigma 41. Hell, so did a Freedom 45 ;)

As to sex and equality, you may be right that "women of means" have better things to do. there are a lot of great sailors of all genders who have no interest in sailing their boats solo offshore. The ones I've been talking to had already thought about something like this, they just need the push to make it reality. But more to your point, I think women are underrepresented in all aspects of sailing and racing and I really think that's too bad.

And your throwaway comments about basic general skill? Ok. It took me 2 years to get my boat prepped for this and my boat's already pretty well set up for shorthanded sailing. Maybe offshore passages and prepping for them are ho-hum for you, but for some of us this is quite literally a rite of passage - one I think shouldn't be the domain of just old, retired men.

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1 hour ago, ryley said:

Black Jack, I could not agree with you less on nearly every one of your points.

Yes, there are a lot of "old people" who have done this race - two skippers turned 70 during this race and the oldest had them both beat by over a decade. Yes, as much as I respect his ability, I too think there's a bit too much focus on Dragon - although there is no denying he sailed a great race in both directions. But with the exception of Class 5, the boats that lined up are boats that are accessible, manageable, and fun for even mere mortals. Crossing the gulf stream, or for that matter making that 635 mile trip to Bermuda, solo, doublehanded, or even fully crewed is an accomplishment that any sailor should be proud of no matter how many times they've done it. I've made that trip more than a half dozen times now at all different times of the year and it is never routine. The people I'm talking to about this event aren't retired, in fact are in the prime of their careers but also have flexibility to do this race if they so choose. Hell, even I had to log a few days at work between the two legs. But you really need to go back and look at the scratch sheet.  

As to sex and equality, you may be right that "women of means" have better things to do. there are a lot of great sailors of all genders who have no interest in sailing their boats solo offshore. The ones I've been talking to had already thought about something like this, they just need the push to make it reality. But more to your point, I think women are underrepresented in all aspects of sailing and racing and I really think that's too bad.

And your throwaway comments about basic general skill? Ok. It took me 2 years to get my boat prepped for this and my boat's already pretty well set up for shorthanded sailing. Maybe offshore passages and prepping for them are ho-hum for you, but for some of us this is quite literally a rite of passage - one I think shouldn't be the domain of just old, retired men.

I will point out there is basic requirement skill test as proof of actually sailing distance singlehandedly as called for by the race instructions. I am sure you met the qualification as required.  Not every male or female who has the ability to sail this has that recent experience on a quality race boat capable of doing that distance at speed.  Taking the time to show up at the mandatory attendance classes with mostly dudes with dwindling testosterone, know all salts and getting check off certifications adds other layer to qualify. Moreover each one of those boats you pointed out is so disingenuous that is is truly laughable. In your own admission "The newest boat on the list was a J-121. He did well. So did a J-105. So did a Sigma 41. Hell, so did a Freedom 45"  all exceed a purchase price of at least 50k to well over 300,000 dollars not including sails and refitting. Who other than established folks could even get a hold of one of these let alone know how to properly and safely sail one solo. Those who have these fine vessels rarely are willing to loan them out to up and coming sailors let alone good local female sailors without expereince of long distance solo racing.

You brought another true fact which speaks to time; you had 2 years to prep and pay for what is a professionally meaningless race - who the hell has time and cash for that bullshit except for retired people of means.

I am a very active single sailor here in San Francisco. I made nearly every single handed or shorthanded smaller race on the San Francisco bay except for the Transpac this year.  I do recognize the effort to sail distance. My boat is only half ready to do the SSS Transpac which goes nearly 4 times the distance as the 1-2. In my wife's mind, she openly says I should do the Bermuda 1-2 instead saving thousand of dollars in transportation fees and associated costs rather than pursue a great pacific race plus it is safer mentally. I know I will need at least 2 more spinnakers, another racing main and two head sails for my 30.7' boat. I will spend nearly 15k in new sails to get them.  I am on track to be able to do either in 3/4 years. One of the main reasons I can do this is because i am able to wind down my job to a trickle, could move to Annapolis Maryland where it is going to cost for us less to live and spend more time sailing in general. All in all, it will take me 75k if i do all the labor and my personal tools, that includes the purchase price of the boat to do either one of the races. Moreover I will not likely win my class in either race i chose or will get deserving accolades for the huge personal effort it took to get there. I will get a nice party to attend and have a few nice folks shake my hand though.

The trend of less sailboat usage and more solo and short handed sailing has been detrimental to the sport - fewer people participating means fewer folks catch the sailing bug in general. Sure doesn’t help as the trend promoting short handed and solo events grows while we forget to ask our non sailing friends along. That takes time and getting much more folks out on the water sailing than both you and actively do. Talking about the need of more women sailor is really a cry for more people sailing in general - both men and women, boys and girls of all ages. Our smaller shorthanded pool is a reflection of how successful we have been. Wondering in open where the younger women in general are in this declining watery recreation in North America for the wealthy and older people of leisure to me is interesting but not lost all in this irony. 

 

 

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yes, we need more people sailing. I'm surprised with your negative attitudes around shorthanded sailing that you're posting in a shorthanded group about how shorthanding is destroying the sport. it isn't, by the way.

but while we're getting more "people" sailing, we need to also enable, promote, and encourage women in sailing, because I'm sure if you asked any woman you sail with or against, they will tell you tales of misogyny and male discouragement against their abilities, aptitude, intelligence, strength, etc. etc. You might have even been one of them without even knowing it.

And as far as my boat prep, you read way too much into what I said, and certainly not what I meant. I used the 1-2 as an "excuse" to do some work that needed to be done on an artificial timeline because ultimately, we're going to do a sailabout on this one, and if it's all the same if it can make it to Bermuda I'm confident it will get me pretty much anywhere. but sure, let's just keep up the negative waves and bemoan how much a boat costs, and I suppose as long as women are making $.75 on the dollar compared to men they can only afford 3/4 of the same boat. 

Also, I admit I've never sailed to Hawaii. But your wife should be happy that's where you're going and not to Bermuda. There's a reason you don't see a lot of Moore 24's and other ULDB's (or Columbia 30-2's for that matter) doing the Bermuda run. They're perfectly well suited for those left coast sled runs.

Anyway, you keep doing what you do to promote the sport, and I'll keep doing what I do, and I bet we'll both have a pretty good time and maybe.. just maybe... show a bunch of other people how good a time it is too. I'm out.

As a side note, why is everyone suddenly so cranky? there's a lot more attacking and vitriol going on over stupid shit lately. Cheers Black Jack, happy sailing.

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Maybe some of these posts are why I haven't seen Rail Meat's story.

Looks like he continued his prepare well, execute well programme.

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9 hours ago, Black Jack said:

This 1-2 race is about folks with time to fuck off, means to put together a winning boat program and basic general skill to sail as well as the time show up for the basic sailing and educational requirements. 

I don't understand why you are so bitter about people that have a reasonable income and a little vacation time.  That's not revolutionary and doesn't require anything special.  If someone chose to, many/most people with a college education, a few weeks of vacation, and a decent amount of determination can do an offshore race.  The problem with your posts is you have a chip on your shoulder about people who can do these races, as if they have somehow cheated the system.  Perhaps they just got good grades, got a good education, worked hard, saved a little, and decided to sail across an ocean.  I was just looking at the 2022 Pacific Cup entries.  There are 92.  I know something about maybe 20 or 25 of them.  I quickly counted 15 boats owned by people that are clearly employed, without any extraordinary means, they just have an income and have managed to get to a point where their income allows them to go chase a dream.  Is that so wrong?  I also counted 17 boats that are 30' or under and 35 boats (35!) that are at least 30 years old.  The direct statement that everyone racing offshore is rich and retired is simply hogwash and undermines your credibility towards whatever point it is you are shooting for here.  

FYI, you can do a B1-2 on 2 weeks of vacation.  That is not an elite prerequisite.  

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Phew, this is a pretty negative thread now and not sure why. I've known 6 people who have done it and definitely not well to do and most are not retired, or only recently so. Indeed, most did the work themselves (e.g., Ryley) because they are working stiffs, but with a dream. So, let's stop this crap and talk about how did you do it/afford it/learn to do it, and in the process be more inclusive.

Cheers, Greg

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21 hours ago, Black Jack said:

I am a very active single sailor here in San Francisco. I made nearly every single handed or shorthanded smaller race on the San Francisco bay...

I see the local race entries/results and I know better.

We have some truly active solo and doublehanded participants who race Cal 20s, Santana 22s and other older, affordable boats.

I'm reading between the lines that you've been hesitant to commit the necessary resources to be even modestly competitive.  Please don't dump on the rest of us because of this.  We're having fun out there.

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40 minutes ago, BobJ said:

I see the local race entries/results and I know better.  Besides, didn't you move away?

We have some truly active solo and doublehanded participants who race Cal 20s, Santana 22s and other older, very affordable boats.

I'm reading between the lines that you've been hesitant to commit the necessary resources to be even modestly competitive.  Please don't dump on the rest of us because of this.  We're having fun out there.

Bob my point was more pointed to women entering the sport of short handed racing which is dominated by men who tend to be older with time and money.  it takes a huge time commitmentment when people have active lives and so many choices. Sorry that our sport is in decline and fewer folks are getting out there. I pointed out that many here are going short handed or solo as routine rather than ask others to sail. We do leave expereinced friends and  new to sailing people on the shore who could go sailing with us but do not take them. I am guilty of it myself. I will point out in the SSS in zoom meetings how many women were on the screen, my guess is less than 5 in 70 attendies or more each time. The same goes for the SSS meetings at the oakland yacht club or even on the bay racing. We are by far the biggest solo yacht sailing organization in north america yet we are under represented by women and folks of color compared to our local community at large.

We all regret it takes a great deal of cash to put together a boat to be competative in short handed sailing.  I did not say I could not pay it out of pocket - i just happen to like being frugle in a recreation that takes infusions of cash to be make tops. I love living in Alameda and sail twice a week all year around. Frankly i like it better than sailing in Richmond let alone Annapolis or Savanah. Sailing is something I can do here more than almost every other place including the east coast.   But to live here and manage this great life full of numeroous interests - I have to work full time while keeping my self emplyed business profitable. I am waiting for 15k worth of sails from Kame Richards Pineapple and Quantum sails. I missed the Farralones to make my sons navy graduation. I have made most of the SSS races or chose to doubled handed them in the past year including on the other MULL 30, Lively Lady, the one I spent thousands of hours restoring and sold to my friend as well as on other peoples boats. Moreover I often race single handed in the estuary races against crewed but quick to jump on another boat when asked.  I killed it in the may No Trophy Noth bay race taking first in my division were i was faster using no autohelm and using 15 year old sails as I wait for mine to be made, sailing faster than most spin boats and sports boats. I really enjoyed the Delta Ditch run this year on the other Mull 30 as we raced shorthanded. I will make the next races as I can but there is aways life outside sailing that calls.

I do what I preach. I take folks out. I gladly give my skilled free labor in fixing or sailing which i do so often to the lament of my beautiful wife who really loves me around. I seek to expand the sport and the community. I would like to see others do the same.

For the record, I truly appreciated your efforts Bob in our community. There are a few like you that makes our local sailing scene really an amazing thing. Thank you.

 

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14 hours ago, Roleur said:

 

FYI, you can do a B1-2 on 2 weeks of vacation.  That is not an elite prerequisite.  

To be honest you can not do the 1-2 in two weeks. This year the race started on June 4 with the return start on June 17. One had to have their boat inspected on June 2 with other manatory things starting in late may. Most finished the race around 140 hours after june 17th start.  The party at the end was June 26. That sounds closer to a month than to 2 weeks.

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7 minutes ago, BobJ said:

Not sure what it means that I'm quoting Hamlet twice in four days - but (thou) "doth protest too much, methinks."

 He may, but this has been an interesting conversation to read through.  BlackJack did have some interesting points, but some were obfuscated by the rant.  That's SA for ya.  There is definitely a lack of representation in our sport, and I'm not sure how to make sailing appealing without smearing it in white savior complex or other shallow forms of inclusion.  

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59 minutes ago, Black Jack said:

To be honest you can not do the 1-2 in two weeks. This year the race started on June 4 with the return start on June 17. One had to have their boat inspected on June 2 with other manatory things starting in late may. Most finished the race around 140 hours after june 17th start.  The party at the end was June 26. That sounds closer to a month than to 2 weeks.

This is true, two weeks is a stretch to do this race. But that said, it's really not much *more* than 2 weeks, depending on whether your job allows you to work remotely or not. For instance, I did the delivery from Boston to Newport over the Memorial Day weekend and it was a shit show. Of course those 3 days were days off from work anyway, and I got to see Cuttyhunk for a night.

My safety inspection as a first time sailor was scheduled for the 31st but was postponed to the 1st because of my delayed arrival. Ted did a thorough job and left me with two things to correct, which I did. Wednesday and Thursday, I spent half-days working remotely and half-days finishing some last minute prep and provisioning. I was at sea from Friday the 4th until Thursday the 10th and I took Friday off (6 business days).

I worked the 14th and 15th remotely, and took the 16th off to reprovision and re-stow everything. The race started on the 17th and I finished on the 22nd and delivered the boat to Mystic on the 23rd, and I took the 24th and 25th (8 business days) off to relax before going back to work on the 28th. So it turns out I took almost exactly 14 business days off to do this race. And I did it on 3 sails: a dacron main and jib and a (very old) fractional asym in a sock.

Now to be fair, we lucked out on the return trip and got in before the front came through, switched the wind from SW to NE, and then died. A bunch of boats didn't finish until the 23rd, and of course Windswept got in (he single-handed the return leg, btw) on the 25th before the party on Saturday the 26th.

Also, I would point out that in past years *some* people will leave their boat in Bermuda, fly home to go back to work, and come back for the restart. In this Covid year, that would have been costly and burdensome - airline rates are crazy compared to the last few times I had to fly home from B, and the testing and precautions that were in place were quite onerous.

I'm fortunate to work for a company with a generous vacation policy (generous for the US, still fairly laughable compared to Europe), and I definitely understand that there are barriers and hurdles to this race, but the economic argument is a little supercilious. No one is buying a race boat *for* the Bermuda 1-2. I mean, my boat is our long-term retirement plan. We originally bought it and lived on it in Boston full time because we didn't feel like we could afford a house there, and this was a good alternative that also happened to give us a water view at a fraction of the cost of a condo/apartment/home in the Boston area. Being able to attempt some fun and challenging sailing is just a bonus.

Black Jack, I've read a lot of your posts and I respect you and your sailing and your knowledge around a lot of things both sailing and non-sailing - Hobot picture thread commentary was especially enlightening - and I suspect that we both do everything we can to promote our sport. My original post about getting more women into this particular event was based on being there, seeing what the women who *did* participate accomplished, their enthusiasm, what they said , and their own frustration that there aren't more doing these types of ocean races when it can clearly be made accessible to them. The women I've been speaking to about stepping up to this already have their own boats, have a wide range of experiences both near shore and offshore, and in my mind simply need a little encouragement to explore, if not take, the next step. Your comments just seem so counterproductive to the goal of getting people out there, and I am positive that's not what you meant, but they are exactly the kinds of comments that I think discourage people from even trying.

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1 hour ago, ryley said:

Your comments just seem so counterproductive to the goal of getting people out there, and I am positive that's not what you meant, but they are exactly the kinds of comments that I think discourage people from even trying.

Pardon the miscommunications.

You should be proud of what you do and what it takes. Bravo.

I think we all want the same thing. The more people who are exposed to this, can with ability and desire to do this segment of sailing the better. I do hope we can sail with and against each other in the future.  I know you could likely feel the same. Heres to bringing many new faces to sailing. Hope you and yours continue having a great sailing summer.

Ted

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On 7/13/2021 at 9:37 AM, Black Jack said:

To be honest you can not do the 1-2 in two weeks. This year the race started on June 4 with the return start on June 17. One had to have their boat inspected on June 2 with other manatory things starting in late may. Most finished the race around 140 hours after june 17th start.  The party at the end was June 26. That sounds closer to a month than to 2 weeks.

I didn’t say it was easy, or the norm, but it is possible. If vacation were the barrier, there are solutions.  And who can afford a boat, but only gets two weeks vacation?  That is far from the norm.  

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17 hours ago, Roleur said:

I didn’t say it was easy, or the norm, but it is possible. If vacation were the barrier, there are solutions.  And who can afford a boat, but only gets two weeks vacation?  That is far from the norm.  

The one two format is time consuming 

also the island oceanic destination is troublesome 

I prefer long distance coastal events that follow the season boat migration 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The one two format is time consuming 

also the island oceanic destination is troublesome 

I prefer long distance coastal events that follow the season boat migration 

 

 

 

Do you have examples of long distance coastal events that follow the season boat migration?

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On 7/16/2021 at 11:47 AM, r.finn said:

Do you have examples of long distance coastal events that follow the season boat migration?

In the Mediterranean there are several 

We did the Palma Sardinia event a few times 

east west early summer 

no return race 

Sardinia, or the eastern Mediterranean  is a destination 

I’ve  not done the double handed series in a few years so I’m not familiar with the schedule 

the last time I did the double handed Bermuda race it was inside the normal Newport Bermuda race 

no return race 

if I remember correctly there was a short handed series sailing north south along the east coast of the us 

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11 hours ago, slug zitski said:

In the Mediterranean there are several 

We did the Palma Sardinia event a few times 

east west early summer 

no return race 

Sardinia, or the eastern Mediterranean  is a destination 

I’ve  not done the double handed series in a few years so I’m not familiar with the schedule 

the last time I did the double handed Bermuda race it was inside the normal Newport Bermuda race 

no return race 

if I remember correctly there was a short handed series sailing north south along the east coast of the us 

I think a lot of people weighing their Bermuda 1-2 options would find going to Europe "troublesome". 

Does anyone know what this is referring to?

"if I remember correctly there was a short handed series sailing north south along the east coast of the us"

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1 hour ago, r.finn said:

I think a lot of people weighing their Bermuda 1-2 options would find going to Europe "troublesome". 

Does anyone know what this is referring to?

"if I remember correctly there was a short handed series sailing north south along the east coast of the us"

The Atlantic cup is one that I remember 

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23 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

No 

 

and you asked about coastal short handed sailing 

 

 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.  Based on the thread title I assumed we were only talking about North American races.  Carry on.

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

Annapolis Newport 2021  Double handed 

https://yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=13210

Not much of "a cruising class" in the lot.  few boats under 33 feet regardless of class. the small PHRF classic class is indicative of the direction.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 1.27.33 PM.png

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1 hour ago, Black Jack said:

Not much of "a cruising class" in the lot.  few boats under 33 feet regardless of class. the small PHRF classic class is indicative of the direction.

Screen Shot 2021-07-19 at 1.27.33 PM.png

I don't understand the comment.  It's a race.  How many boats were you expecting in the cruising class?  Also, there were two ORC classes that looked pretty cruisy, whatever that is, exactly.  

The few boats under 33 feet, is the simple reality that not many people are willing to race a smaller boat offshore in the Gulf Stream.  Racing to Hawaii is by far the exception with small boats since it is predominantly downwind, but who wants to race upwind in a small boat for days?  

The point is free will keeps the smaller, slower, older boats out of races like this, not cost.  

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19 minutes ago, Roleur said:

I don't understand the comment.  It's a race.  How many boats were you expecting in the cruising class?  Also, there were two ORC classes that looked pretty cruisy, whatever that is, exactly.  

The few boats under 33 feet, is the simple reality that not many people are willing to race a smaller boat offshore in the Gulf Stream.  Racing to Hawaii is by far the exception with small boats since it is predominantly downwind, but who wants to race upwind in a small boat for days?  

The point is free will keeps the smaller, slower, older boats out of races like this, not cost.  

I look at the classes, who is participating and what boats they use. As far as i understand it, smaller, slower, older boats do not compete because the classes for them are elimiated or discourged from entry as they have no place nor do they draw attention to those who want to see other spend good money on their sport. Nobody who feels they are someone special who drops several hundreds of thousands on a race sled wants to race a thrashed boat from craigslist with  borrowed and used 15 year old sails and hard latex bottom. Race promotion from exclusve yacht clubs and asking hefty entry fees insures that. 

Feel free to come up with reasons that suit your opinon. I do agree that some of the west coast races of short handed sailing do appear to be inclusive of more yachts and it works for down hill to hawaii racing where abandoning a boat for a loss in the islands and flying home does make some economic sense. 

 

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Most small boats are shipped home from Hawaii.  

I'll just completely disagree that small, slower, older boats are excluded or discouraged from offshore races, other than for safety reasons.  The main reason you don't see those types of boats in races is free will.  Owners of those boats aren't interested in the sufferfest a small or slow boat would require. 

Back to that chip on your shoulder - Tell me about that time "someone special" told you about the small/slow/old boat they didn't want to see on the race course.  I'm completely missing that part of the sailing community.  To be perfectly clear, someone who drops hundreds of thousands on a race boat couldn't care one way or the other about the competition outside their rating band.  Someone else's "thrashed" boat has zero impact on their race or their experience.  They literally don't care at all about that.  

And the reason offshore races are put on by yacht clubs, whether they be exclusive or not, is for their organizational abilities.  They have a large pool of VOLUNTEERS (aka members) they can draw from to pull off the race.  If you try to run a race without those member-volunteers, then you have to have paid staff and entries most go up to cover that.  I'm a board member of my yacht club.  That means I volunteer to help the club more than most members.  We run one of the largest races in the area, each year.  The entry fees cover the costs of the race.  That's it.  

Your stereotyping says more about you than the people you are dissing.  You seem to live in a fantasy land in which you've created the persona that everyone is evil if they have a nicer boat or more time than you think they should have.  Talk about opinion...  

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45 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Most small boats are shipped home from Hawaii.  

I'll just completely disagree that small, slower, older boats are excluded or discouraged from offshore races, other than for safety reasons.  The main reason you don't see those types of boats in races is free will.  Owners of those boats aren't interested in the sufferfest a small or slow boat would require. 

Back to that chip on your shoulder - Tell me about that time "someone special" told you about the small/slow/old boat they didn't want to see on the race course.  I'm completely missing that part of the sailing community.  To be perfectly clear, someone who drops hundreds of thousands on a race boat couldn't care one way or the other about the competition outside their rating band.  Someone else's "thrashed" boat has zero impact on their race or their experience.  They literally don't care at all about that.  

And the reason offshore races are put on by yacht clubs, whether they be exclusive or not, is for their organizational abilities.  They have a large pool of VOLUNTEERS (aka members) they can draw from to pull off the race.  If you try to run a race without those member-volunteers, then you have to have paid staff and entries most go up to cover that.  I'm a board member of my yacht club.  That means I volunteer to help the club more than most members.  We run one of the largest races in the area, each year.  The entry fees cover the costs of the race.  That's it.  

Your stereotyping says more about you than the people you are dissing.  You seem to live in a fantasy land in which you've created the persona that everyone is evil if they have a nicer boat or more time than you think they should have.  Talk about opinion...  

You are projecting now. I only bring up cost and ability to compete because it does matter to those who run the things and well as to those who want to feel they get their full value and get social respect do from the expensive toys they sail. Big yachts and big yacht racing have a deep tradition steeped in this shit.  I have a belief system that is based on what I have seen and known and the communities that I visit. You do not know me but I assure you that i have seen it on both coasts, in Europe and have family who have participated in yacht racing since the begining of the NYYC. Your perspective is different as you should see thing differently than me. But please do not accuse me of thinking folks are evil because of their gold plated water assets. On the contrary, they are the reason why most of this racing bullshit continues. without them, most clubs and regattas would disappear. 

I point out it is cheaper to sell an Olson 30 in Hawaii after a race to hawaii than to send it back because it can be true. Taking a 5 grand loss in a sale rather than send it back home via a ship makes sense.  Boats are not investments but tools. Once the usefulness of the tool is over and bringing it back and restoring it does not make sense - of course the option of disposing for a low price is better than dicking around with it when one is done when one's time is worth more to do so.

I also have run large regattas and been the commodore of yacht clubs. I know what things cost and what is important in a race. true many give their time freely and others do not. entrance fees are barriers, subject to how much they want to make to cover the cost well over the basic operations. It is a screen of sorts keeping those out and letting others in. Giving everyone a hat, t-shirt or useless pickle jar adds to the cost. As does the pre and post parties that are essentual to a club essesance and gives meaning to those who belong.  

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/12/2021 at 10:33 AM, ryley said:

This might be the most important post here. Women were underrepresented in this race. I've already started discussions with two of my female skipper friends to get this on their "must do" list. only 3 boats had female co-skippers and none had solo skippers this year. There are far too many talented women out there to sit on the sidelines for events like this.

Women are too smart to own racing sailboats, let alone solo racing sailboats. Convince me I'm wrong. :wub:

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