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Wakeboarding - an ecological obscenity?


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I haven't seen a lot of this, but I find the idea to be repulsive: create a big enough wake in protected water to enable someone to surf on it. This requires an abnormal amount of water displacement and probably aggravates erosion of shorelines. This was brought home to me by a recent periodic email from the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. In it, they provided these guidelines:

Wake Responsibly
Vessel registrations in North Carolina have increased 10 percent since January. With more boaters on the water this spring, summer and fall, safety is imperative. When wakeboarding, please follow these recommendations to “wake responsibly” and help create an environment everyone on the water can enjoy:

  • Stay at least 200 feet away from the shoreline, docks or other structures.
  • Keep music at reasonable levels. Sound travels well over water. If it is loud enough to hear at 80 feet back, it is likely loud enough for homeowners and others to hear as well.
  • Minimize repetitive passes on any one portion of the shoreline. Once you've run the same line for a while, move on to another area.

To me, it seems an obnoxious activity that creates a nuisance.

Comments?

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3 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Comments?

up there with jet skis ..legitimate targets .

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Wake is a demonstrably a bad thing for shorebirds like loons. I don't know why normal waterskiing went out of fashion in the first place. It certainly is good exercise. 

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They are asshole boaters. Wake board boats have built in stern ballast tanks so the stern squats and creates a huge ass stern waves. That and outward firing speakers.

It's like marine Harleys driving up and down your street.

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Deliberately creating a large wake is déclassé to sat the least. Same as the loud music.

Guidelines are worthless, the worst offenders are the last to comply.

It tickles me pink that San Juan county successfully banned PWC. 

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Some wealthy waterfront property owners in Oregon have got them banned in their immediate area.  Dunno if there will be any enforcement. Only two stretches of one river though.

https://www.opb.org/article/2021/01/29/oregon-state-marine-board-wake-sports-restrictions-willamette-river/

Where I used to keep my boat, some of them started wake-ing up and down the narrow canal that leads to the marina (because the main river was too rough for them).  The banks would literally be caving in as they went by and those people didn't seem to notice or care.  Although to be fair (?) it appeared to mostly be teenagers in Dad's boat.  

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I love wakeboarding.

And, as a counterpoint, I love its antithesis: canoeing remote northern lakes with no humans around for miles and miles, and nothing but the Silence of Creation....

Kidding on the first part.

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2 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

The PWC rental companies in False Creek have installed GPS activated governors that limit them to 5kts inside the the speed buoys.  

Cool.  Now if they’d limit them to 60 dB...

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3 hours ago, toddster said:

Cool.  Now if they’d limit them to 60 dB...

Better still, max speed 5 knots until at least 3 miles off of the coast.

Jet skiers and wake boarders. Inconsiderate, selfish arseholes.

FKT

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
8 hours ago, toddster said:

Cool.  Now if they’d limit them to 60 dB...

Better still, max speed 5 knots until at least 3 miles off of the coast.

Jet skiers and wake boarders. Inconsiderate, selfish arseholes.

That's the point

They're like 3 year olds, screaming "LOOK AT ME ME ME!" Very loud noise, rude destructive wake, force other people to pay attention to you.

This is what we have the Jewish Space Laser for, we just need to start using it more.

- DSK

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Wake boards are cool 

use your main halyard , plus a +\- 50 meter tether , to tow the wake boarder 

bring the boat speed up to six knots and a fit wakeboarder can achieve dramatic , world record jumps 

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The Willamette is dramatically better. I see less than one violation a day, always a newby. Jetskies are just fine if they don’t stay in one place doing donuts. The “pass through” rule is good, worth emulating. A cool side effect is that since  they can’t stay and do donuts, many boats slow way down to enjoy the experience. And the launch ramp / docks are way safer. 

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's the point

They're like 3 year olds, screaming "LOOK AT ME ME ME!" Very loud noise, rude destructive wake, force other people to pay attention to you.

This is what we have the Jewish Space Laser for, we just need to start using it more.

- DSK

Mazeltov cocktails work almost as well.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Mazeltov cocktails work almost as well.

Throwing bottles of Manischewitz hasn't kept them away so far.

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On 6/4/2021 at 5:28 PM, Bull City said:

To me, it seems an obnoxious activity that creates a nuisance.

Comments?

You are too kind.

It is an abomination to the shoreline, to other water users who depend on water clarity, to any natural vegetation and fish life, to other boaters, and to paddlecraft.  They are worse than PWCs.  There was a missed opportunity to nip this in the bud through legislation outlawing it before it became popular.  There is a water use attitude among legislators that there is a place and time for all uses which falls down when products/activities appear that are simply not compatible with any other recreational use or with any sort of preservation goals.

No vessel that deliberately creates an outsized wake has any place on a body of water that does not routinely have natural wave action of similar magnitude.

With PWCs we can at least imagine that there might be places where they do no harm since the main problems with them are noise and the collision avoidance problems posed by their speed and unpredictability.  They do not have any ecological impact beyond that posed by other small craft.

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On 6/4/2021 at 5:50 PM, spankoka said:

Wake is a demonstrably a bad thing for shorebirds like loons. I don't know why normal waterskiing went out of fashion in the first place. It certainly is good exercise. 

It requires too much skill for today's youth

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I will openly admit I make my living off helping create these monstrosities. They need to be banned though. I can’t imagine the damage they’re doing to shorelines. 

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18 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Better still, max speed 5 knots until at least 3 miles off of the coast.

Jet skiers and wake boarders. Inconsiderate, selfish arseholes.

FKT

One of Sydney Harbour's best features is the lack of PWCs. Brilliant move.

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2 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

One of Sydney Harbour's best features is the lack of PWCs. Brilliant move.

Yep, Bob Carr warned them. Then brought in a special PWC licence class. It made no discernable difference to the fuckwit factor. Last straw IIRC was some dickheads roaring into a calm water harborside beach dodging women swimming/bathing with their children.

After that a line from North Head to South Head - west of that, banned.

My only complaint is it should have been a line running from Tweed Heads east and south of that, banned. Queensland is so overrun with white-shoe fuckwits they can have the PWC crowd too.

FKT

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On 6/4/2021 at 6:54 PM, Zonker said:

They are asshole boaters. Wake board boats have built in stern ballast tanks so the stern squats and creates a huge ass stern waves. That and outward firing speakers.

It's like marine Harleys driving up and down your street.

We've been spared 'wake boarding' or other lake type activities on our bay. Too ocean like I guess. We rarely see even a PWC in our harbor or out sailing. But by god, we got the Harley action on main street,... 

 

There must be a powerful lobby here in Maine because the nuisance of these loud pipes are brutal. Working on my boat yesterday, I heard a group coming down old Rt 1(the new one by-passes our harbor, thank god). You can hear a mile away but it isn't until they reach the stage (high bridge at the head of the harbor) of the natural amphatheatre of Rockport Harbor, that the 'boys' really crack them open! I have hearing loss and still have to put my hands over my ears. 

 

Then the group continues to crack their throttles -up and down- through main street. It's the show they live for, not the 'open road'.

 

In another mile, they have downtown Camden to fire up the pipes again. Grown men acting like toddlers. 

 

This (the bridge) is their stage:

 

1648917257_AdventuresslaunchGooseRiver(1of1).thumb.jpg.7e8415f2befb38a91e3ea716329eb436.jpg

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4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

 

 

Then the group continues to crack their throttles -up and down- through main street. It's the show they live for, not the 'open road'.

 

 

My brother and his friends used to Harley.  These days they mostly gather dust in the garage.  SOP: Take the camper and the land yacht on the road - trailer the Harley's behind.  Stop twenty miles outside of Sturgis, unload the Harleys, throw dirt on each other to get that road-worn look, and roar into town.  (The girls discretely follow in the land yacht and get lunch ready.)

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Here's a bunch of no good do nothing fuck the planet up kids displaying zero skill and bothering anyone within earshot or sightline of their boring front lawn.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

The Willamette is dramatically better. I see less than one violation a day, always a newby. Jetskies are just fine if they don’t stay in one place doing donuts. The “pass through” rule is good, worth emulating. A cool side effect is that since  they can’t stay and do donuts, many boats slow way down to enjoy the experience. And the launch ramp / docks are way safer. 

On the Willamette, it is the big cabin cruisers streaming at full chat who throw the biggest waves.  It's those same boats who I have the most close encounters with.  The wakeboard drivers are more willing to adjust course to give room.

That said, I certainly notice an improvement since they created the restriction.

In my heiarchy:

Giant cabin cruiser indifferently steaming down the middle of the river like they own it - Give a wide berth along with the stinkeye

Wakeboarder - treat with caution

Pwc - generally ignore them

Human powered craft - deliberately give a wide berth

Police boat - give a wide berth but sail casually

Sailboat - RRS, it's always a race, right?

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1 hour ago, toddster said:

My brother and his friends used to Harley.  These days they mostly gather dust in the garage.  SOP: Take the camper and the land yacht on the road - trailer the Harley's behind.  Stop twenty miles outside of Sturgis, unload the Harleys, throw dirt on each other to get that road-worn look, and roar into town.  (The girls discretely follow in the land yacht and get lunch ready.)

Those trailer queens get called out quickly when around serious riders. Thing is there are so many wannabes they have plenty of peers to impress.

My last Iron Butt ride on my Electra Glide was a Bun Burner Gold. 1,500 miles in under 24 hours.

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I think there are many people out there who cannot conceive of a fun, enjoyable, outdoor activity that does not require an internal combustion engine.

Inherited or acquired?

Sailing vs. Power boating 

Surfing vs. PWC/Wakeboard

Skiing vs. Snowmobiling

Mountain Biking vs. ATV-ing

Road cycling vs. Harley-ing

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I used to ride.  I always kept the quiet,  factory pipes on my bikes.  I didn't like the biker social scene and I got tired of hearing about motorcyclists getting killed by cars just within a mile or two of my house so I sold them and haven't looked back. 

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I don't have a problem with them out here. I used to be a hard ass windsurfer. They liked the lakes on the days I didn't. Mostly nice families with kids, out having good, clean fun on hot weekends. 

The only ones I've seen in the Penobscot area are the children of the owners of Bucks Harbor Marina, fantastically good kids, wonderful parents. Again, they go out between Buck's Harbor and Cape Rozier on days too quiet to sail, or in the evening. No wetsuits. Hardy kids!

I have a lot more trouble with people in motorboats getting waaaay to close to the racing with cameras during classic yacht races. I understand the allure, but please, give us room to maneuver. 

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3 hours ago, Bull City said:

I think there are many people out there who cannot conceive of a fun, enjoyable, outdoor activity that does not require an internal combustion engine.

Inherited or acquired?

Sailing vs. Power boating 

Surfing vs. PWC/Wakeboard

Skiing vs. Snowmobiling

Mountain Biking vs. ATV-ing

Road cycling vs. Harley-ing

There's another common factor - noise.

Same as arseholes who play amplified music. What on earth makes them think (yeah I know...) that everyone wants to listen to their choice of music? Fact is that they simply don't care about other people at all.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

I used to ride. 

When I was young, I raced 600cc sports bikes - I was the perfect size and had really good distance/depth perception. Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, mid-ohio, etc.  Was perhaps the most intense thing I have done in a reasonably full life - needed to be entirely focused the entire time.  I did not ride much on the road because I did not want to have to worry if there was a patch of gravel or oil in the corner. I gave it up after a crash at speed - was lucky and decided my time riding was over.

I dont think we were (very) loud, but honestly I have no idea, my attention was totally on other things.

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1 minute ago, estarzinger said:

When I was young, I raced 600cc sports bikes - I was the perfect size and had really good distance/depth perception. Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, mid-ohio, etc.  Was perhaps the most intense thing I have done in a reasonably full life - needed to be entirely focused the entire time.  I did not ride much on the road because I did not want to have to worry if there was a patch of gravel or oil in the corner. I gave it up after a crash at speed - was lucky decided my time riding was over.

I dont think we were (very) loud, but honestly I have no idea, my attention was totally on other things.

I gave up road bikes after the 2nd car driver that made a no notice, no indicator turn in front of me and I got out of hospital.

I bought a 4WD Land Rover with a big bull bar.

That got me an excellent life lesson in how to strip down Land Rover gear boxes and a lifetime hatred of what passes for UK engineering.

FKT

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I ride a Honda cruiser, stock exhaust. I've had friends on their porch call out a greeting as I passed by; I've been able to reply back. If I'm in a situation where I needed loud pipes to save me from a four wheeler, I likely put myself in that situation and there's something I could have done to prevent it. Idiots, the lot of them... all trying to kill me.

Can't say I've ran across any wakeboarders on the river so far. Local water ski group has ran into problems with law enforcement in the past, swamping paddlecraft and claiming ownership of the river. Local schools have crew teams... most of them row faster than my boat can travel, so I generally just watch them go by.

The folk that irritate me are the stinkboaters passing through the 5mph no wake zone by the docks, slowed down with the boat trimmed down in the stern, creating more of a wake than if they just passed by at speed properly trimmed up. Worse than that: The new exhaust fad of running rich and popping afterfires. Sounds like a serious of gun shots as they get off & on the throttle. 

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It seems every recreational activity has a sub section that has this obnoxious side. For instance I enjoy overlanding, the peace and quiet and being where few people have been is relaxing to me, however many places I venture to are now becoming overrun by these atvs and side by sides with the loud stereos, and these folks are running their rigs off the trails and doing a lot of damage to the forests, they also seem to leave a lot of trash. It is a shame folks can’t be more conscientious of those around them and the environment, however I realize that will never happen.

I guess wakeboarders will be eroding the shores of lakes and blaring obnoxious music until enough folks get sick of it and make them go away.

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7 hours ago, Wetabehindtheears said:

It seems every recreational activity has a sub section that has this obnoxious side.

Hmm, quite.

2 weekends ago, I was seeking shelter from coming storms in a creek. This one fellow had staked out a perfect little cove all to himself on what appeared to be a Tartan 34c.  His boat hull was covered in Bible verses and there was a shitty, Home Depot-grade generator strapped to his foredeck. This thing was in a steel cage and no way would it fit anywhere else on his boat but the foredeck. This generator was LOUD. He was obviously one of the "floating homeless." It was pretty obvious that he ran the generator 24/7.

I thought "maybe if I get upwind of him the noise won't be so bad."   I got upwind about 75 yards and throttled back. Nope, LOUD. I made a 180 turn and got out of there.  No wonder the guy was anchored alone.

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Not much more than a century ago those brick/stone buildings in the background (abandoned), were belching thick black smoke as they cooked lime dry night and day, and loaded it on schooners.

Any indoor plumbing ran it's waste pipe (many waste pipes, disconnected, are still there in the brooks), into the small brooks around the village that all drained into the harbor. 

It won't be long when this sight will seem absurd. 

I have a dream that one day, sail-power will be discovered by the masses.

813430572_Fireupyourengines.thumb.jpg.fc411b59c2f1d634b62265e59d8140a6.jpg

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47 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I have a dream that one day, sail-power will be discovered by the masses.

Me too, I hope it's not a fruitless dream.

I keep explaining to people:  Sailing is about two destinations- "Here" and "there."   When I'm sailing, I'm here. I'm already where I want to be, thus it doesn't matter if I'm moving at 1 knot or 10 knots or 40 knots as I work towards my second destination of "there," wherever "there" is.

I never really get tired of being underway unless the wave action is really harsh and physically demanding for long periods. I never tire of watching the world slide by. Part of that is having a boat that is comfortable enough. At 33 feet, my boat is small but well equipped.

Arriving "there" is a special treat all its own, especially if it's a new place to you. New place, new people, new things to see and do. That look on people's faces when they ask where you're from and you tell them that you sailed from somewhere far away.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Me too, I hope it's not a fruitless dream.

I keep explaining to people:  Sailing is about two destinations- "Here" and "there."   When I'm sailing, I'm here. I'm already where I want to be, thus it doesn't matter if I'm moving at 1 knot or 10 knots or 40 knots as I work towards my second destination of "there," wherever "there" is.

I never really get tired of being underway unless the wave action is really harsh and physically demanding for long periods. I never tire of watching the world slide by. Part of that is having a boat that is comfortable enough. At 33 feet, my boat is small but well equipped.

Arriving "there" is a special treat all its own, especially if it's a new place to you. New place, new people, new things to see and do. That look on people's faces when they ask where you're from and you tell them that you sailed from somewhere far away.

Same here. I also never tire of watching the world slide by. If conditions are bad and I'm cold, wet and frustrated, I just think about being trapped at Costco and I feel better instantly. :D  "There" is just a bonus. 

Personally, I think there is a sweet spot starting around 30 something feet and maybe going to 42' where the boat has enough carrying capacity but everything is still at human scale.  

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while I couldn't agree more with all the negative comments ("legitimate targets", "asshole boaters",...) there is this little voice in the back of my mind (I didn't know I had it!) that keeps saying: "...isn't always the OTHER guy's activity the ecological obscenity/asshole-activity/...?" not much would be left if all activity that is idiotic in my view would be banned...(& the whole industry behind our boating activities isn't only producing noiselessly driven snow & sweet smells...

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20 hours ago, Bull City said:

Sailing vs. Power boating 

 

Skiing vs. Snowmobiling

 

Lot's of sailors go to power later in life, our own accnick built a sailboat he circumnavigated, now has a powerboat.  A very dear friend who's raced to Bermuda over 20 times now, at age 74, has a daysailor and a 74' powerboat he skippers himself, albeit sometimes with the family chef. He's just done with offshore sailboat racing. 

I had a business partner, long passed now, whose knee would no longer allow skiing, likely due to an injury sustained parachuting into Normandy the night before D-Day. He enjoyed snowmobiling for years before that too became too difficult. His pal in that pastime was ex-10th Mountain Division in WWII. 

I am mindful that I'm am wide open to criticism on many fronts, not the least of which is using a helicopter to access otherwise quiet areas of the Canadian Rockies for winter skiing. 

I will say that wakeboarding on a narrow river with other users seems a particularly bad idea. 

 

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5 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Lot's of sailors go to power later in life, our own accnick built a sailboat he circumnavigated, now has a powerboat.  A very dear friend who's raced to Bermuda over 20 times now, at age 74, has a daysailor and a 74' powerboat he skippers himself, albeit sometimes with the family chef. He's just done with offshore sailboat racing. Yes, I completely understand that. I lament that the vast majority of boaters are power-boaters. I think they miss a lot by never sailing. 

I had a business partner, long passed now, whose knee would no longer allow skiing, likely due to an injury sustained parachuting into Normandy the night before D-Day. He enjoyed snowmobiling for years before that too became too difficult. His pal in that pastime was ex-10th Mountain Division in WWII. Makes complete sense - an exceptional case.

I am mindful that I'm am wide open to criticism on many fronts, not the least of which is using a helicopter to access otherwise quiet areas of the Canadian Rockies for winter skiing. One day soon there will be a quiet electric helicopter, probably not heated, though. 

I will say that wakeboarding on a narrow river with other users seems a particularly bad idea. 

 

CL, please see comments.

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 I lament that the vast majority of boaters are power-boaters. I think they miss a lot by never sailing. 

@Bull City

I lament that so many cruisers have done little racing. I think racing does wonders for your boat handling, sail trim, and seamanship.

I lament that so many racers have done little cruising. I think cruising does wonders for your anchoring skills and seamanship. 

I lament that I am so poorly skilled at both. 

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"I lament that so many sailors have never tried wake-boarding."

                                                                   - Billy Bob Turnipseed

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39 minutes ago, Bull City said:

"I lament that so many sailors have never tried wake-boarding."

 

But I have. 

It's not long before all you really want to do is stay in the boat and talk your friends into going out on the water to provide some entertainment for the rest of you.  When you all realize that you are all doing the same thing (avoiding wakeboarding) you quietly give up on the whole pastime and wait for your kids to get a older so you can try to get them out on the water.

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5 minutes ago, Teener said:
48 minutes ago, Bull City said:

"I lament that so many sailors have never tried wake-boarding."

 

But I have. 

It's not long before all you really want to do is stay in the boat and talk your friends into going out on the water to provide some entertainment for the rest of you.  When you all realize that you are all doing the same thing (avoiding wakeboarding) you quietly give up on the whole pastime and wait for your kids to get a older so you can try to get them out on the water.

I've never wake boarded but I water skiied quite a lot BITD. I did not find it particularly entertaining but there were girls. Eventually I just drove the boat for others, then moved on altogether.

Wakeboarding may well be like jetskiiing, once you've zoomed one way and the other, and gone round and round and bounced over some wakes, you get bored and want to go VROO-OO-OOM VRoo-OO-oo-OOOOMMMMM in front of the dock or beach or ramp or where ever other people can be annoyed into paying attention to you.

FB- Doug

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38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wakeboarding may well be like jetskiiing, once you've zoomed one way and the other, and gone round and round and bounced over some wakes, you get bored and want to go VROO-OO-OOM VRoo-OO-oo-OOOOMMMMM in front of the dock or beach or ramp or where ever other people can be annoyed into paying attention to you.

FB- Doug

Precisely. You're bored, but you've got this monstrous boat and engine that's not good for anything else. What a racket!

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some people understand the concept of sharing a public commons . . . and other people just see a free resource to exploit for their own purposes.

honestly some racing sailors can be in the 2nd category and pretty selfish when it suits them.

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I love to surf...my surfboard, my body board, my SUP, my sailboat, and my body. All of them are powered without burning fuel. The idea of burning fuel to surf while creating a potentially damaging wake is simply disgusting and shows a complete lack of connection to nature. The connection to nature is what surfing of the right kind is about. 

 

 

f1041208_010.jpg

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In my waterskiing days, while attending a tournament we had a demonstration pass by a young lady (very young I might add, barely out of jr High) who was moving up in the ranks of wakeboarders (the kind that are towed by a rope and do various tricks some of which are as hard to describe as they are to imagine)

We were at a small natural lake that was almost perfect for tournament waterskiing.  However when the wakeboard boat was making its pass, the wakes were so large that like a tsunami, the water rushed away from the bank before the wake came crashing into the bank.  It was eye opening.

On a related matter, some very large cruisers on the bay where we frequently sail (at least sailed before Sally took our boat out.) made such large boat wakes that our 26 foot S2 was roughed up quite badly.  

Finally Loud speakers.  I so much hate it when folks in their boats and even on the shoreline make sure that we get to enjoy their favorite music.  Unfortunately, rarely is their favorite, My Favorite :angry:

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7 hours ago, estarzinger said:

honestly some racing sailors can be in the 2nd category and pretty selfish when it suits them.

Quite a few of those on Sydney Harbour back in the day when I was a university student.

We'd go sailing with a slab and some roast chickens. Follow the rules of the road, sure, but get out of the way of racers who tried to demand a stand on status that they didn't have?

Pffft. My friend's parents owned a 42' steel Adams cutter. He used to tell them to regard him as an obstacle they had to avoid.

The ferries were always fun.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

Loud speakers.  I so much hate it when folks in their boats and even on the shoreline make sure that we get to enjoy their favorite music.  Unfortunately, rarely is their favorite, My Favorite :angry:

This. But 'Ride of the Valkyries' or similar played at volume 12 serves to get the point across. Or Gregorian chants.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Quite a few of those on Sydney Harbour back in the day when I was a university student.

We'd go sailing with a slab and some roast chickens. Follow the rules of the road, sure, but get out of the way of racers who tried to demand a stand on status that they didn't have?

Pffft. My friend's parents owned a 42' steel Adams cutter. He used to tell them to regard him as an obstacle they had to avoid.

The ferries were always fun.

FKT

I started racing on the harbour in the early sixties, VJ’s, skiffs, keelboats, it’s always been dodgem boats out there.

Racers are bouncing off each other every other weekend, why would they treat cruisers differently?

 

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This. But 'Ride of the Valkyries' or similar played at volume 12 serves to get the point across. Or Gregorian chants.

FKT

Never, Never, Never is music such as Wagner or Rimsky-Korsakov played.  Its either very modern country or some midlife rock band that is both out of date and was never in fashion.  Heck, they won’t even play George Strait or the Beatles or The Beach Boys or anything one might recognize.  

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13 hours ago, Kolibri said:

I love to surf...my surfboard, my body board, my SUP, my sailboat, and my body. All of them are powered without burning fuel. The idea of burning fuel to surf while creating a potentially damaging wake is simply disgusting and shows a complete lack of connection to nature. The connection to nature is what surfing of the right kind is about. 

 

 

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As I’m sure you’re aware, when it gets to the biggest waves, the only option is to get towed in by a wave runner.

The shape and small size of the high speed boards, as well as the use of foot straps owe a bit of debt to the skurfer, which was developed on inland lakes in the 80s and was actually a bit of a precursor to wakeboarding.

The skurfer was buoyant and you could not push water so you had to do a water start like you would with a windsurfer, but with a tow rope as opposed to a boom/wishbone. Eventually wakeboarding diverged to less buoyant boards used  today which are way easier to start on, while the big wave boards retain more of the shape and size of the original skurfer. 

Here’s one of your neighbours discussing modern equipment and big wave tow in philosophy, and even taking the smaller high speed board technology a step further into the realm of foiling.

As for the menace to society that wakeboarding is supposedly causing, I’m not buying it for a second. Sure you get the odd group who are either disrespectful or just plain ignorant, but I’d say it’s a minority. Around here, where we have 250 000 inland lakes to choose from, most lake associations where recreational towing happens have a 10/30 bylaw (10 km when 30 metres from shoreline) and some are pushing for 10/50 or more do to the mild regulatory issues being posed by bigger wake boats. Most drivers seem to operate much further offshore than this anyway and understand wake discretion a little bit better than Rodney Dangerfield did.

On the lake where I’ve been escaping to the last few years when I go northbound from the Great Lakes, there’s a healthy loon population(shoreline habitat) and a few punk wakeboard kids here and there who seem to be working it out in some kind of harmony.

Personally, I’d rather paddle board or windsurf or take a laser out...even canoeing is quite enjoyable...but each to there own.

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On 6/4/2021 at 3:28 PM, Bull City said:

I haven't seen a lot of this, but I find the idea to be repulsive: create a big enough wake in protected water to enable someone to surf on it. This requires an abnormal amount of water displacement and probably aggravates erosion of shorelines. This was brought home to me by a recent periodic email from the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission. In it, they provided these guidelines:

Wake Responsibly
Vessel registrations in North Carolina have increased 10 percent since January. With more boaters on the water this spring, summer and fall, safety is imperative. When wakeboarding, please follow these recommendations to “wake responsibly” and help create an environment everyone on the water can enjoy:

  • Stay at least 200 feet away from the shoreline, docks or other structures.
  • Keep music at reasonable levels. Sound travels well over water. If it is loud enough to hear at 80 feet back, it is likely loud enough for homeowners and others to hear as well.
  • Minimize repetitive passes on any one portion of the shoreline. Once you've run the same line for a while, move on to another area.

To me, it seems an obnoxious activity that creates a nuisance.

Comments?

Any thoughts on diesel pollution?

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4 hours ago, fufkin said:

As I’m sure you’re aware, when it gets to the biggest waves, the only option is to get towed in by a wave runner.

 

 

 

I do live in Hawaii so yeah....I've been aware of how tow in surfing works for quite some time. I'm not a fan of tow in surfing, but other than the jet skis burning fuel it's not a valid to compare it with wakeboarding. The wake from the jet skis has no impact on the shoreline, wildlife or anything really for that matter. Also, being towed in is not the only option for catching those monster waves.  Plenty of people windsurf and kite board those same waves. 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Bull City said:

I just did a quick Google of these boats. This one is $94,000. 

https://www.wakeboardingmag.com/story/boats/2021-yamaha-255xd-wsbbg/

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We have a wakeboat shop at our marina.  They store the things right next to our fleet.  No way I would be caught dead on one.  (Small lake) so it's fun on weekends....... Not... 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Kolibri said:

I love to surf...my surfboard, my body board, my SUP, my sailboat, and my body. All of them are powered without burning fuel. The idea of burning fuel to surf while creating a potentially damaging wake is simply disgusting and shows a complete lack of connection to nature. The connection to nature is what surfing of the right kind is about. 

I enjoy surfing too. I've never been very good, even for an East Coaster, but have managed some trips to Costa Rica, Nicaragua and New Zealand without getting killed. Like many of us, I enjoy sports and activities powered by nature (waves, wind) or by my own efforts (rowing, mountain biking, soccer). 

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On 6/6/2021 at 5:44 AM, Kris Cringle said:

...

Then the group continues to crack their throttles -up and down- through main street. It's the show they live for, not the 'open road'. 

...

There is an episode of South Park that hits on this cultural phenomenon.  Here's a condensed version:

 

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I used to absolutely love water skiing (slalom of course) and boy am I ever paying for it now. Hitting the water at 50 mph can hurt. 2 back injuries, broken eardrums, ect. I'm sitting at anchor in the Broken Group with my 13 yo granddaughter listening to good although low volume music wondering if I should take a pain killer... we all were young you know. Gonna help her with her first salmon tomorrow, that should be fun!

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I actually did wakeboard - on an artificial lake in a wakepark. The cable was run by electric motors, there was no music outside the bar, no wake of course, but many toys and obstacles like ramps, kickers and rails. Since the cable pulls upward in these parks, the cool guys did spectacular airs and tricks by jumping over their own bow waves. Best I ever did was a 360 over a kicker.  (The equivalent of a podium finish on a Wednesday night drifter with five entries.) 
I would never be caught behind one of those horrible boats, but in that park it was fun, even if totally plastic. :ph34r: 

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Quote

One day soon there will be a quiet electric helicopter, probably not heated, though.

Isn't it really hard to quiet a rotor, though? Even if the motor is nearly silent, won't the rotor be loud?

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More noise? Why are a bunch of folks who dress and think alike considered "rugged individualists and Lone Wolves?"

Harley Riders

Just look like normal Trump voters to me. Folks proud of their flip phones, who don't want to have to think about higher tech Moto Guzzis, and other bikes on the cutting edge. And tattoos: Hipsters will never catch up to deplorables. Since most jails and prisons have banned cigarettes, many of these folks have quit smoking. Sorta gotta give 'em a + for that. And they all believe in Jesus, which for me cancels out the smoking +.

Worth a look: https://izismile.com/2011/08/01/harley_riders_16_pics.html

But speaking of Jesus, there is a motorcycle gang club in these parts called the Foretold Horsemen. I once asked one of these lone wolves if he was a religious guy ... "Fuck No!" So I wondered about his affiliation with the biblical reference? He had zero comprehension of what the fool I was talking about. So I whipped out my bible to read some Daniel to him, and he backed away so quickly he spilled his beer, thinking I was, you know, a Witness. Long story short I gave him the AJ Oliver treatment with a lesson the dude didn't want (just like the rest of us). He really struggled with the "fact" that the horses were all different colors. He knew there was something to that but didn't know what. Heh. I didn't tell him. Since then, he always gives me the side eye.  

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On 6/6/2021 at 8:56 PM, Wetabehindtheears said:

It seems every recreational activity has a sub section that has this obnoxious side.

Yup. Obnoxious often equates to inconsiderate... "my use is more important than your use." I'd argue that just about any vessel, vehicle, or craft can be used considerably somewhere somehow.

The opposite extreme are NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) and Karens... the trick is to avoid either extreme.

The anti-recreationist ultra-backpacker who curses the sight of a contrails or the faint sound of a chainsaw is as wacked as junior wakeboarder, spraying tunes and wave energy from shore to shore.

Most folks grow out of these extremes and wind up living in relative peace with each other. How can we encourage more of that: more consideration and more peace?

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1 minute ago, sculpin said:

Sadly, I think you are on the wrong website for that... 

You're not wrong. :P

Kum-bah-ya, I guess. Maybe Rodney King had it right... or maybe there's too much 'mellow' in my meds tonight! :rolleyes:

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10 hours ago, randii said:

The anti-recreationist ultra-backpacker who curses the sight of a contrails or the faint sound of a chainsaw is as wacked as junior wakeboarder, spraying tunes and wave energy from shore to shore.

I used to turn my nose up at people who drove cars that had an automatic transmission. I think I based it on the supposedly better gas mileage with a manual. Sometime in the early 21st century, I saw the light. Now I can drive and drink coffee.

Back in the manual days, I used to drive my four kids to elementary & middle school. In order for dad to drink his coffee, one of them would shift the gears while I worked the clutch. They all drove manual cars until they got married.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Back in the manual days, I used to drive my four kids to elementary & middle school. In order for dad to drink his coffee, one of them would shift the gears while I worked the clutch. They all drove manual cars until they got married.

Taught my son and daughter how to drive stick.   My daughter taught her boyfriend (now her husband) how to drive stick - both of their cars are stick.

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2 hours ago, slap said:

Taught my son and daughter how to drive stick

In these islands "stick shift" is normal, and nearly everybody who isn't disabled learns to drive with a normal gearbox.

So when Americans come over and start talking about "stick shift", people look at them like they have two heads.

Mind you, I was converted by my one visit to North America, where I drove an automatic on a road trip.  So I have driven automatics ever since, which makes people look at me like I have two heads.  

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

Mind you, I was converted by my one visit to North America, where I drove an automatic on a road trip.  So I have driven automatics ever since, which makes people look at me like I have two heads.  

Automatics sure take the onlooker amusement out of a boat ramp.

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We have one of each in the household. I prefer the automatic (my wife's) for city driving but the standard transmission (mine) is my favourite ride. Interestingly, my wife learned on a standard and never wanted an automatic until a certain car she wanted only came with an automatic transmission; then she never looked back.

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5 hours ago, slap said:

Taught my son and daughter how to drive stick.   My daughter taught her boyfriend (now her husband) how to drive stick - both of their cars are stick.

Both our cars (1 trk) are stick shift and have roll down windows. Sometimes I forget how weird that is. I hate cars. 

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Somehow I missed the segue...?

I prefer manual transmissions for many reasons way beyond the scope of the thread, but one is that I've had to replace two automatic transmissions that were basically the same as an insurance "total."  One could repair or just find another used vehicle for about the same cost.  

BITD, I seem to recall that there was some teenage stigma to being caught driving a "three on the tree" manual (i.e. Mom's car).  You had to drive a "four on the floor" to be socially acceptable.  

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Automatics sure take the onlooker amusement out of a boat ramp.

I learned driving a stick by driving an old pickup truck (with 3 on the tree) at a boy scout camp that I worked at one summer.   My first time with it I had to back it out of a parking spot in a highly sloped part of the parking lot, backing it up going uphill.  I'm certain that I provided quite a bit of entertainment for the onlookers.....

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Sadly, (because I love manual transmissions), manual transmissions don't have the sales volume anymore to support the R&D.  As a result, modern automatics are the better transmission for both performance and fuel economy.  Outside of a small number of low-volume enthusiast models, most modern sticks are vague, cable operated pain boxes with poorly spaced gears and grabby clutches. 

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Anyway, before long we will all get used to driving direct-drive high-torque electric vehicles.  The whole concept of "transmissions" will seem quaint, and the idea of arguing over them, laughable.  

 

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2 minutes ago, toddster said:

Anyway, before long we will all get used to driving direct-drive high-torque electric vehicles.  The whole concept of "transmissions" will seem quaint, and the idea of arguing over them, laughable.  

 

Truth. I think I own the last ICE car I'll ever own. 

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13 hours ago, Elegua said:

manual transmissions don't have the sales volume anymore to support the R&D.  As a result, modern automatics are the better transmission for both performance and fuel economy.  Outside of a small number of low-volume enthusiast models, most modern sticks are vague, cable operated pain boxes with poorly spaced gears and grabby clutches. 

Maybe the case in North America.  But in other markets, e.g. Europe, manual transmissions remain a significant majority of the market.

But I agree with @toddster that it will all soon be moot, 'cos EVs don't have gearboxes.

 

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11 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Maybe the case in North America.  But in other markets, e.g. Europe, manual transmissions remain a significant majority of the market.

But I agree with @toddster that it will all soon be moot, 'cos EVs don't have gearboxes.

 

I think you underestimate how big the volume must be to be competitive in the auto industry and how international the industry has become. You may not realize that the EU is the third place market after the US and China by volume before I add in Japan and Korea and those markets are primarily automatic. On a global basis manual transmission are less than 40% of the market and shrinking, which is why apart from a few enthusiast car models from premium, low volume mfgs, manual transmissions aren’t getting the R&D dollars. The point being mainline car mfg will struggle to cover the investment for electrification, no time for yesterday’s manual transmissions. Most modern EU car manual transmissions are terrible outside of the the high-end enthusiast cars. 

 

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