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Is it time to start calling it the Wuhan Virus


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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

It's interesting all this criticism of China.

If we'd dealt with this virus with the ruthless efficiency that China did, it would be over a year ago and there wouldn't be 2 million dead trillions of debt and our economies would be stable.

I wonder if we've learned anything?

 

 

didnt you notice the current outbreak in China this week? Has paralyzed two major ports....

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All politics aside, it is odd the press have widely used the terms 'UK' Variant, the 'Indian' Variant, the 'Brazilian' variant as well as talking historically about the Spanish, Hong Kong and Russian

The foundation of a market economy is the rule of law  China is not a market economy 

SO glad you are impressed with the length of my ... post! One cut and paste.

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On 6/10/2021 at 12:20 PM, LB 15 said:

Not really no because it is your fucked up country that created these mindless Trump loving fuckwits. Don't forget they hate African Americans and people from Latin America just as much.

But if you think that the Asians aren't the most racist people on earth - bar none - then you obviously have never visited any of those countries.

Malaysia even has apartheid law.

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1 minute ago, Sailabout said:

Malaysia even has apartheid law.
Which I regularly remind my Malaysia friends of all ethic backgrounds...

Singapore gov says the population not ready for an Indian PM, well the population all know the smartest bloke in gov is an Indian well liked by all but thats not a decision for voters is it ( well in asia anyway)

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17 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

Singapore gov says the population not ready for an Indian PM, well the population all know the smartest bloke in gov is an Indian well liked by all but thats not a decision for voters is it ( well in asia anyway)

Sure, be proud. Your next President will be an Indian Woman.

That was soooo easy :D

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27 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Sure, be proud. Your next President will be an Indian Woman.

That was soooo easy :D

They won't mind that so much, as long as she isn't Native American.  I was shocked to learn while I was over there, how much Anglo Americans hate the natives.  Scary shit.

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:54 AM, fishingbobber said:

All the latest news shows that the virus came from the Wuhan lab and the Chinese govt  lied and destroyed evidence. The Wuham virus has killed millions, including Maryanne, disrupted our lives, family, income and the global economy,,, from which China seems to be emerging better situated seeing they are a totalitarian dictatorship. Lets at least give them some accountability. I mean this is Sailing Anarchy,, Not "Sailing lick the chinese govt balls". Covid 19  terminology was pushed by WHO that it turns out was conspiring with the dictatorship..  Lets grow some.

How many socks have you got Mikey?

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All this going back and forth about the history of China and massacres and the economic system in China alongside the communist party has made my head spin. I'm glad I live in the USA.

Im going to keep my life simple and refer to the virus as CV19 and that it originated in Wuhan.  Wiser heads than mine will determine whether it likely escaped from a lab program or is a wild virus. Either way it has been an epic tragedy.  

I hope the world can roll out vaccine programs to curtail the disease , and examine ways of preventing it happening again.

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14 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

All this going back and forth about the history of China and massacres and the economic system in China alongside the communist party has made my head spin. I'm glad I live in the USA.

Im going to keep my life simple and refer to the virus as CV19 and that it originated in Wuhan.  Wiser heads than mine will determine whether it likely escaped from a lab program or is a wild virus. Either way it has been an epic tragedy.  

I hope the world can roll out vaccine programs to curtail the disease , and examine ways of preventing it happening again.

All this BS arguing about names is worth nought. I look forward to the day when we can just call it history.

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12 hours ago, 00seven said:

All this BS arguing about names is worth nought. I look forward to the day when we can just call it history.

without all this arguing about nothing we wouldnt have this thread....

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18 hours ago, random. said:

All the latest news shows that the virus came from the Wuhan lab and the Chinese govt  lied and destroyed evidence.

It was actually some of the earliest news but something happened to it on the way to most peoples news source.

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Maybe the Chinese are correct and it was a US Military incident releasing the virus. Now the US have to create a scapegoat to divert attention. Makes as much sense either way, hard to believe the US have suddenly become all open and honest about what was going on.

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My problem with the whole Wuhan origin thing is that while that may be the place of the first documented outbreak of the virus, did it actually originate there?

If this story is true https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27W1J2 , In Italy it was discovered that several lab samples from the first week of October 2019 tested positive for Coronavirus antibodies (I assume when they say Coronavirus they are referring to SARS Cov2) then that predates the Wuhan outbreak by more than 2 months.

Also, it is alleged that the actor Rosie Perez was hospitalized while filming a movie in Thailand at the beginning of Dec 2019.  The doctors told her it was a new respiratory disease (which sounded a lot like Covid 19) that was circulating and they seemed to be quite familiar with it.  I can't vouch for the veracity of the article given it's source and headline, but here it is anyway if anyone is interested: https://pagesix.com/2020/12/01/rosie-perez-details-her-covid-19-experience/ 

So is it possible that the coronavirus that caused the Wuhan outbreak was simply a more virulent strain of a virus that had been circulating stealthily for some time in other parts of the globe?  IDK, but sounds like a possibility if there is any truth to the above stories.

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The only people who give a fuck where the virus came from here, are political shills.

@mikewof for example.

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3 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

So is it possible that the coronavirus that caused the Wuhan outbreak was actually a variant of a somewhat less virulent strain of the virus that had been circulating stealthily for some time in other parts of the globe.  IDK, but sounds like a possibility if there is any truth to the above stories.

Then if that was the case then some of the missing links in the genomic evolution would be filled in.  They haven't been.

There is no evidence yet of an intermediate zoonotic host.

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1 minute ago, random. said:

The only people who give a fuck where the virus came from here, are political shills.

@mikewof for example.

Scientists actually "give a fuck" about the origin of the virus.  Indeed the whole world should care.  There are implications in terms of pandemic research and planning which differ if the virus has a natural origin or a man-made origin.

But these scientific questions are beyond your comprehension.

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So fucking funni!

Put a @mikewof in and Kate shows up almost immediately!

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9 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

But these scientific questions are beyond your comprehension.

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26 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Then if that was the case then some of the missing links in the genomic evolution would be filled in.  They haven't been.

There is no evidence yet of an intermediate zoonotic host.

Are you directly involved in the research?  Otherwise how would you know some that some of the missing links have not been filled in.

Or are you making an assumption based on there being no evidence yet of an intermediate zoonotic host?

Anyway, you kind of sidetracked me from my original question of can we say with absolute certainty that the virus originated in Wuhan when it appears there is evidence it was circulating in other parts of the globe before the December 2019 outbreak in Wuhan.

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5 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Are you directly involved in the research?  Otherwise how would you know some that some of the missing links have not been filled in.

It is nearly unanimous amongst the scientific community that a zoonotic host source has not been found.

Remember it was initially proclaimed to be Pangolins?

Covid-19 genetically has genomic sequences that match a virus found in caves about 9 years ago.  However so far there has been no evidence found that fills the gaps between that virus and Covid-19 which has other unexplained adaptations.

It's akin to jumping from a Model T to a 2021 Mustang without any models in-between.

 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It is nearly unanimous amongst the scientific community that a zoonotic host source has not been found.

Remember it was initially proclaimed to be Pangolins?

Covid-19 genetically has genomic sequences that match a virus found in caves about 9 years ago.  However so far there has been no evidence found that fills the gaps between that virus and Covid-19 which has other unexplained adaptations.

It's akin to jumping from a Model T to a 2021 Mustang without any models in-between.

 

Agreed about the Pangolins and that they have not yet found a zoonotic source, but that doesn't answer my question about how you know that some of the missing links (obviously not all) have not been filled in as you claimed.

Although truth be told, I don't know why you even made the claim since it doesn't answer the question of whether there is a possibility that there was an earlier variant of the virus (or perhaps the same virus) in circulation in other parts of the globe before the Wuhan outbreak.  It's just that it was in Wuhan that the virus was first identified.

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15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:
28 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

 

It is nearly unanimous amongst the scientific community that a zoonotic host source has not been found.

Funni as fuck that.

Nearly unanimous was not good enough for you for climate change, but for attacking China, it's more than enough!

fd4f1dbaaaa432da94e6f229f83dd179.jpg

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6 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Agreed about the Pangolins and that they have not yet found a zoonotic source, but that doesn't answer my question about how you know that some of the missing links (obviously not all) have not been filled in as you claimed.

Although truth be told, I don't know why you even made the claim since it doesn't answer the question of whether there is a possibility that there was an earlier variant of the virus (or perhaps the same virus) in circulation in other parts of the globe before the Wuhan outbreak.  It's just that it was in Wuhan that the virus was first identified.

But it wasn't confirmed in Italy until AFTER Wuhan.  The earliest possible case in Wuhan is now suspected to be when Lab workers got sick in November.

The Italy September hypothesis is based on an antibody study NOT a confirmed case of Covid-19 that has been genomic sequenced.

Confirmed cases in Italy were AFTER Wuhan.

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21 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I've made no comment EVER on SA about Climate Change.

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It is nearly unanimous amongst the scientific community that a zoonotic host source has not YET been found.

 

 

Seriously? FTFY.

Honestly @mikewof, if you ever were a Journalist as you claim. it must have been for the Daily Mirror :rolleyes:

Part of a longer piece.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7294078/the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-is-in-the-news-but-its-still-fact-free/

The Wuhan lab-leak theory is in the news, but it's still fact-free

Snip

What's missing from all this re-examination and soul-searching is a fundamental fact: There is no evidence - not a smidgen - for the claim that COVID-19 originated in a laboratory in China or anywhere else, or that the China lab ever had the virus in its inventory. There's even less for the wildest version of the claim, which is that the virus was deliberately engineered. There never has been, and there isn't now.

****

No one disputes that a lab leak is possible. Viruses have escaped from laboratories in the past, on occasion leading to human infection. But "zoonotic" transfers - that is, from animals to humans - are a much more common and well-documented pathway.

That's why the virological community believes that it's vastly more likely that COVID-19 spilled over from an animal host to humans.

That was the conclusion reached in a seminal paper on COVID-19's origins published in Nature in February 2020 by American, British and Australian virologists. "We do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible," they wrote.

"We cannot prove that SARS-CoV-2 [the COVID-19 virus] has a natural origin, and we cannot prove that its emergence was not the result of a lab leak," the lead author of the Nature paper, Kristian Andersen of the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, told me by email.

"However, while both scenarios are possible, they are not equally likely," Andersen said. "Precedence, data, and other evidence strongly favor natural emergence as a highly likely scientific theory for the emergence of SARS-CoV-2, while the lab leak remains a speculative incomplete hypothesis with no credible evidence."

Co-author Robert F. Garry, of Tulane Medical School, told several colleagues during a recent webcast: "Our conclusion that it didn't leak from the lab is even stronger today than it was when we wrote the paper."

As the veteran pseudoscience debunker David Gorski sums up the contest between the lab-leak and zoonotic theories, "the likelihood of the two hypotheses is nowhere near close to equal".

What remains of the lab-leak theory is half-truths, misrepresentations and tendentious conjecture.

snip

As for the letter in Science, some of its 18 signatories have taken pains to emphasise that they are not endorsing the lab-leak theory; some are highly skeptical of the hypothesis.

The organiser of the letter, David Relman of Stanford, told Nature's Amy Maxmen: "I am not saying I believe the virus came from a laboratory." Another signatory, Ralph S. Baric of the University of North Carolina, told The New Yorker: "The genetic sequence for SARS-CoV-2 really points to a natural-origin event from wildlife."

Their goal in signing the letter, they said, was not to point fingers at the Wuhan lab, but to urge the WHO to devote more effort to determining the origin, whatever it might be, before expressing a categorical opinion.

The virus that causes COVID-19, moreover, is known as an opportunistic virus that has little trouble passing among species - it is "pantropic", in virological jargon.

For a laboratory leak to have occurred, secretly or inadvertently, would have required "a massive conspiracy and cover-up involving a lot of people, including some very accomplished scientists, not telling the truth about what they were working on or what they had," Garry told me.

The lab-leak theory gains from a superficial plausibility - especially to laypersons. The Wuhan lab had a collection of bat viruses, including some that appear to be similar to the coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

But some virologists say they're not similar enough to mutate into SARS-CoV-2, even through deliberate manipulation, Garry says. "That's a point that's not going to resonate very strongly with people who haven't studied viruses for a long, long time."

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

We cannot prove that SARS-CoV-2 [the COVID-19 virus] has a natural origin, and we cannot prove that its emergence was not the result of a lab leak," the lead author of the Nature paper, Kristian Andersen of the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, told me by email.

"However, while both scenarios are possible

That is all we can conclude.

 

7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

There is no evidence yet of an intermediate zoonotic host.

If it was a zoonotic transfer, we have not found the origin yet.

29 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

There is no evidence - not a smidgen - for the claim that COVID-19 originated in a laboratory in China

If it was an accidental escape from a lab we have not found evidence yet.

I think that sums up the debate.

It took 13-15 years to pin down the approximate zoonotic transfer of HIV1.  There was a theory that HIV was an escaped bioweapon. Thankfully only a few still believe that.

25-35 million people have died from AIDs , 1.5 million people became infected in 2020 and approx 700,000 died.  Unlike CV19, after 37 years we still have not come up with a vaccine. 

 

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10 hours ago, BOI Guy said:

It was actually some of the earliest news but something happened to it on the way to most peoples news source.

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

If it was a zoonotic transfer, we have not found the origin yet.

In 18 months of intensive research with a virus that has been gemomically analysed like no other.

3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

If it was an accidental escape from a lab we have not found evidence yet.

The actual evidence which door was left open and by whom hasn't been found.  In all likelihood it won't be found.  Afterall who is going to admit it?

However the evidence that the virus is not zoomotic in origin and has characteristics that indicate gain of function research is very compelling.

I realise that your degree is a medical one rather than a science one and you spend most of your day supposedly treating patients.

3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

It took 13-15 years to pin down the approximate zoonotic transfer of HIV1. 

You are deliberately deflecting the debate.  Why?

When HIV was discovered the research techniques that are available today far surpass those that were available then.

However your deflection doesn't hide the fact that Covid-19 genomically has significant characteristics that indicate the source cannot have been zoonotic.  Hence the balance of the debate has now swung very heavily towards a lab escape.

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@Kate short for Bob

Woweeey Mikey,

Not even trying to not act like Mikey.  You've thrown the entire grab bag of terms you are paid to throw into one post.

  • lab escape
  • cannot have been zoonotic (x2)
  • gain of function

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

 

However the evidence that the virus is not zoomotic in origin and has characteristics that indicate gain of function research is very compelling.

 

Can you at least provide evidence for that assertion @mikewof?

Because no one else seems to be able to. Well no credible body that is.

 

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21 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well no credible body that is.

What do you define as a credible body? There's not many left after this fiasco.

Some sources haven't changed their story, they are not very mainstream but at least they don't keep flip flopping.

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24 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

What do you define as a credible body? There's not many left after this fiasco.

Some sources haven't changed their story, they are not very mainstream but at least they don't keep flip flopping.

 

Only if, like @mikewof (AKA kate short for bob), you believe the virus is designed in a lab to genetically engineer us into super humans with bat like properties.

You expect scientific theories to remain constant?

FFS, other source (including some very mainstream ones) that won't change their story are not terribly credible...

 

 

The Bible, The Koran, The Torah ect :) 

I suspect that your unchanging non mainstream sources may be scientifically disreputable.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You are deliberately deflecting the debate.  Why?

When HIV was discovered the research techniques that are available today far surpass those that were available then.

 

I was not trying to deflect the debate. I was pointing out that the lack of finding the zoomotic link is not conclusive evidence that the virus was man made.   The AIDS virus took a long time to find in Chimpanzees in the Camaroon (dont recall exact country) . The SARS 1 virus took 10 years to find the link in bats (it was originally thought to be palm civets).  Please be aware I am not ruling out a lab leak. I am merely pointing out the the zoomotic links might take time to find and at the very least we should continue to look. (even if we think a lab leak is a strong possibility)

There are good  reasons not to rule out the lab leak thesis.  Importantly there been 4 cases of SARS1 since WHO declared the SARS1 virus had stopped spreading human-to-human.  All 4 were lab accidents.

 One in Singapore. One in Taipei. Two in China.

The two lab escapes in China were 12 weeks apart at the same Viral research institution.  They were two unrelated accidents with the same virus which with a mortality rate of 11% ( and a mortality rate of 55% for those over 65) is only meant to be examined in labs which meet biosafety standard level 3.   Clearly the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing failed to meet those standards   https://www.the-scientist.com/news-analysis/sars-escaped-beijing-lab-twice-50137     If CIV failed those standards with a renown dangerous virus, do I think it possible that WVI in Wuhan could have failed a safety standard and released CV19?  Of course, I think it is possible.    Do I think the world really needs to tighten up lab standards? Yes.    Do I have 90%+ conviction that CV19 escaped from a lab in Wuhan? No I remain open minded. I dont want to diminish the risk that somewhere out there, there is an animal pool of this virus or one sufficiently similar that we should continue to contemplate all sources of origin.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Take the red mist away from your eyes and do some research.

Put up or shut up. @mikewof

You make an assertion, you provide supporting evidence.

You've been crapping on about vaccines and genetic engineering over in PA ad nauseum.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/profile/36765-mikewof/

 

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46 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I did but you obviously didn't read it.

so, show me. Evidence.

Or are we going to see the, " you find it" Bullshit?

It would be typical of you Mike, to claim to know more than all the real scientists all over the world that are working to find the source of this virus.

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21 hours ago, 12 metre said:

My problem with the whole Wuhan origin thing is that while that may be the place of the first documented outbreak of the virus, did it actually originate there?

If this story is true https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27W1J2 , In Italy it was discovered that several lab samples from the first week of October 2019 tested positive for Coronavirus antibodies (I assume when they say Coronavirus they are referring to SARS Cov2) then that predates the Wuhan outbreak by more than 2 months.

Also, it is alleged that the actor Rosie Perez was hospitalized while filming a movie in Thailand at the beginning of Dec 2019.  The doctors told her it was a new respiratory disease (which sounded a lot like Covid 19) that was circulating and they seemed to be quite familiar with it.  I can't vouch for the veracity of the article given it's source and headline, but here it is anyway if anyone is interested: https://pagesix.com/2020/12/01/rosie-perez-details-her-covid-19-experience/ 

So is it possible that the coronavirus that caused the Wuhan outbreak was simply a more virulent strain of a virus that had been circulating stealthily for some time in other parts of the globe?  IDK, but sounds like a possibility if there is any truth to the above stories.

Good be but why did the Chinese go berserk when the world said lets have an investigation into its origins....
Just suppose they found it and thought they might weaponize it and lost control??

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3 hours ago, Sailabout said:

Good be but why did the Chinese go berserk when the world said lets have an investigation into its origins....
Just suppose they found it and thought they might weaponize it and lost control??

not a very effective weapon. Mostly kills those well past service and working age. Biggest problem the developed world has is the aging population demographic.:rolleyes:

Bumping off the boomers could of course be some dastardly plan to endear themselves to millennials and gen x (I'm a boomer(just))

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

not a very effective weapon. Mostly kills those well past service and working age. Biggest problem the developed world has is the aging population demographic.:rolleyes:

Bumping off the boomers could of course be some dastardly plan to endear themselves to millennials and gen x (I'm a boomer(just))

effective to fix a demographic problem where you have state pensions...

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25 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

effective to fix a demographic problem where you have state pensions...

you mean everywhere in the world? Thanks China :D

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53 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

effective to fix a demographic problem where you have state pensions...

Effective to screw the economy for a generation or more. China's war is economical not military, has been for a good long while now.

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I truly hope we dont go down the bioweapon rabbit hole.

The best written article I have read regarding a possible lab leak was this one: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-021-01211-0

The authors argument can be summarized as .........

The near consensus view is that CV19 has a natural zoonotic origin . Several characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 taken together are not easily explained by a natural zoonotic origin hypothesis. The search for SARS-CoV-2′s origin should include an open and unbiased inquiry into a possible laboratory origin.

They do not exclude a zoonotic explanation but argue that a lab leak is a viable origin and should be included in research. 

I doubt that any of us here fully understand the science in the article. However it is more logically explored than some of the nonsense out there.  It is not meant to be conclusive proof that this was a lab generated virus, merely that there is a substantial possibility that it could be lab generated and bears examination at least as thoroughly as the search for a zoonotic origin.

All research agrees that the virus originated in bats. The debate is how it evolved.  Did it evolve in a lab as part of research?  Did it evolve in an animal recombination similar to SARS 1?  We may never know the answer but both bear research.

Whether it evolved in a lab or not, the risks of lab escape are real and lab security and limiting the number of labs qualified to do tis research seems an obvious objective for a world body governing health. Is WHO up to the task?

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I truly hope we dont go down the bioweapon rabbit hole.

The best written article I have read regarding a possible lab leak was this one: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-021-01211-0

The authors argument can be summarized as .........

The near consensus view is that CV19 has a natural zoonotic origin . Several characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 taken together are not easily explained by a natural zoonotic origin hypothesis. The search for SARS-CoV-2′s origin should include an open and unbiased inquiry into a possible laboratory origin.

They do not exclude a zoonotic explanation but argue that a lab leak is a viable origin and should be included in research. 

I doubt that any of us here fully understand the science in the article. However it is more logically explored than some of the nonsense out there.  It is not meant to be conclusive proof that this was a lab generated virus, merely that there is a substantial possibility that it could be lab generated and bears examination at least as thoroughly as the search for a zoonotic origin.

All research agrees that the virus originated in bats. The debate is how it evolved.  Did it evolve in a lab as part of research?  Did it evolve in an animal recombination similar to SARS 1?  We may never know the answer but both bear research.

Whether it evolved in a lab or not, the risks of lab escape are real and lab security and limiting the number of labs qualified to do tis research seems an obvious objective for a world body governing health. Is WHO up to the task?

The boys love their wild theories. 

00seven indeed :D

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30 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

The boys love their wild theories. 

00seven indeed :D

Not quite sure what you mean by this but chasing down the origin of a virus means examining a lot of theories. The science involved in origin of viruses is wild indeed.   There are two major theories :  Zoonotic transfer and lab leak. . Botha re possible and neither is a wild theory. 

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51 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I truly hope we dont go down the bioweapon rabbit hole.

The best written article I have read regarding a possible lab leak was this one: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-021-01211-0

The authors argument can be summarized as .........

The near consensus view is that CV19 has a natural zoonotic origin . Several characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 taken together are not easily explained by a natural zoonotic origin hypothesis. The search for SARS-CoV-2′s origin should include an open and unbiased inquiry into a possible laboratory origin.

They do not exclude a zoonotic explanation but argue that a lab leak is a viable origin and should be included in research. 

I doubt that any of us here fully understand the science in the article. However it is more logically explored than some of the nonsense out there.  It is not meant to be conclusive proof that this was a lab generated virus, merely that there is a substantial possibility that it could be lab generated and bears examination at least as thoroughly as the search for a zoonotic origin.

All research agrees that the virus originated in bats. The debate is how it evolved.  Did it evolve in a lab as part of research?  Did it evolve in an animal recombination similar to SARS 1?  We may never know the answer but both bear research.

Whether it evolved in a lab or not, the risks of lab escape are real and lab security and limiting the number of labs qualified to do tis research seems an obvious objective for a world body governing health. Is WHO up to the task?

do you remember a guy from the truth commission in SA, nick named Dr death?
Anyway he was a world renown geneticists or something.
Last project he was working on was viruses that could target race.

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3 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

do you remember a guy from the truth commission in SA, nick named Dr death? Wooter Basson

Last project he was working on was viruses that could target race.
That must to close to curing viruses that effect races differently I guess?

 

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39 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Not quite sure what you mean by this but chasing down the origin of a virus means examining a lot of theories. The science involved in origin of viruses is wild indeed.   There are two major theories :  Zoonotic transfer and lab leak. . Botha re possible and neither is a wild theory. 

Did I say wild theories? sorry

wild conspiracy theories better?

Sure, either Lab accident or Bats. either is possible, one is more probable.

As you said, we don't need to go down the "biological warfare mishap" BS

Can anyone remind the boys what happened last time the world (or maybe mostly just the USA) went WMD and Biological weapons hunting?

It gets old

 

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36 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

do you remember a guy from the truth commission in SA, nick named Dr death?
Anyway he was a world renown geneticists or something.
Last project he was working on was viruses that could target race.

He was a cardiologist.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Sure, either Lab accident or Bats. either is possible, one is more probable.

As you said, we don't need to go down the "biological warfare mishap" BS

 

 

I dont want to appear pedantic, but SARS -COV -2 definitely came from bats. I think all the scientists are agreed on that. The question is how did it evolve or transmit to humans.

Theory # 1 :  It was a zoonotic transfer. This theory postulates SARS COV-2 went from nature to human, either directly from a bat or via another animal.  This is how most other viral epidemics have occurred, HIV,   Ebola, SARS1.  

Theory # 2 ;  It was a lab escape .  Bat viruses being studied in a lab escaped from the lab.  The Wuhan Institute of Virology is the leading lab researching bat borne viruses.

So the reservoir source of coronavirus are bats and the origin debate is how it transferred to humans. KSB, based on his reading has a high conviction it was a lab escape. Others that it was a zoonotic transfer. Others have not formed a conclusion yet and think both avenues should continue to be explored.  

For my part, I think variants of the existing virus are the greatest concern and creating herd immunity via vaccine and stamping out the virus is the most important focus. 

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Well you are being pedantic. But that's OK.

Personally, I think it would be better creating herd immunity without a vaccine. 

But sadly that would have unhappy consequences.

1, lots of untimely deaths and destruction

2, no huge profits for vaccine manufacturers and their shareholders.

so, I guess we are stuck with the vaccine option and hopefully world peas.

You be pedantic, I'll be laconic 

lets call the whole thing off.

I think I'll have to change my signature line

 ''Making little of major happenings is a distinguishing feature of Australian conversation. Australians do not like to dramatise events, unless they are telling one of their 'tall' stories. In this case, everything is blown out of proportion. However, understatement is the more usual feature.''

 

 

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On 6/8/2021 at 3:12 PM, NeedAClew said:

Calling it the Wuhan or China whatever has incited violence in the United States against people who appear Asian. Any Asian.  Best not to call it that, thank you.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/10/975722882/the-rise-of-anti-asian-attacks-during-the-covid-19-pandemic

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56218684

 

 

 

There are some really DIM bulbs with violent tendencies in this cointry.

I remember a Sikh taxi driver being beaten in Phila on Sept 12 2001.

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MIkey using a sock to attack Fauci ... how many times?

Mikey either claims he knows more than Fauci or he is just posting an attack as his masters directed.  Job's an Job right "Nothing personal"

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7 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Not quite sure what you mean by this but chasing down the origin of a virus means examining a lot of theories. The science involved in origin of viruses is wild indeed.   There are two major theories :  Zoonotic transfer and lab leak. . Botha re possible and neither is a wild theory. 

Your just another China blamer.

Sure you aren't just another Mikey sock?

This software has been around for more than a decade.  It has 'Escaped' into the general 'media influencer' community.
 
 
This article is more than 10 years old

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

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17 hours ago, Sailabout said:

Good be but why did the Chinese go berserk when the world said lets have an investigation into its origins....

The number of comments made about China on this thread by those with no knowledge apart from their own musings is amazing. They are both funny and scary at the same time and show a profound ignorance of Chinese culture.

With regards your question, if you do not understand the Chinese concept of face, you will never understand this reaction. Plus the reaction would be the same even if they knew it didn't escape.

But it is SA, when has total ignorance stopped some of the regular posters before.

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2 hours ago, Gissie said:

 

With regards your question, if you do not understand the Chinese concept of face, you will never understand this reaction. Plus the reaction would be the same even if they knew it didn't escape.

 

We agree. Amazing.

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

We agree. Amazing.

Having read some of your posts in this thread I would disagree. But as you never bother arguing with any sense of purpose, other than lobbing grenades and starting shit fights, then pissing off when the push back gets too hard. Your replies and treatment of Israel early being your standard behaviour, except this time you drove away a person that had real life experience, rather than you feel good socialist, invent to fit your belief, crap.

So I do my best to not bother with you, despite the uninformed bile you like to spew.

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4 hours ago, random. said:

Your just another China blamer.

Sure you aren't just another Mikey sock?

This software has been around for more than a decade.  It has 'Escaped' into the general 'media influencer' community.
 
 
This article is more than 10 years old

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

giphy-downsized-large.gif

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4 hours ago, random. said:

MIkey using a sock to attack Fauci ... how many times?

Mikey either claims he knows more than Fauci or he is just posting an attack as his masters directed.  Job's an Job right "Nothing personal"

Magnificent post!

Bravo!

You are looking good to be the first recipient of the Jack Sparrow memorial prize for bloviation.

Horses Rear Award Trophy Joke Gag Jack Ass Trophy PERSONALIZED FREE  SHIPPING | eBay

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3 hours ago, Gissie said:

But it is SA, when has total ignorance stopped some of the regular posters before.

Fuck I love this place!

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

But as you never bother arguing with any sense of purpose

Interesting.

No, I don't often "argue with a sense of purpose"

If by that you mean "Argue to win"

I like to provoke discussion, sure. Otherwise one gets the same tired old tropes trotted out and little discussion of interest. 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Magnificent post!

Bravo!

You are looking good to be the first recipient of the Jack Sparrow memorial prize for bloviation.

Horses Rear Award Trophy Joke Gag Jack Ass Trophy PERSONALIZED FREE  SHIPPING | eBay

SO glad you are impressed with the length of my ... post!

One cut and paste.

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Interesting.

No, I don't often "argue with a sense of purpose"

If by that you mean "Argue to win"

I like to provoke discussion, sure. Otherwise one gets the same tired old tropes trotted out and little discussion of interest. 

You don't try to provoke discussion, you just like to stir shit. Then you disappear if push back happens. Joking about your silly socialist ideas, yet taking them seriously at the same time.

After all the countries I have lived in, being open to others is important. At the same time, working out who is a waste of time and energy is just as important. There are a few on anarchy that I put in the waste of time basket, but you are certainly one of them.

I remember when you turned up from wooden boat forum with the others. What a bunch of dicks you all were. Some have gone, some have adapted. Then there is you. No change, just the same shit, different day.

Challenging the tired old tropes, yeah right. Wanting a discussion, yeah right. I will now try and not rise to your ridiculous comments.

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I am pretty sure that Eminent Professor AJ Beardy old Homo Oliver -Twisted was a WBF refo as well.

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