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Biden on the campaign trail, discussing Cuba policy:

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“In large part, I would go back,” Biden said in an interview with a CBS affiliate in Miami. “I’d still insist they keep the commitments they said they would make when we, in fact, set the policy in place.”

https://thehill.com/policy/international/495045-biden-says-he-would-return-to-obama-era-relations-with-cuba

 

That was then.  This is now:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/557182-biden-shifts-from-obama-on-cuba-post-florida-losses 

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“You have to ask yourself: what do we get for going back to the pre-Trump approach to Cuba?” one Florida Democratic strategist said. “The answer is nothing. The Cuba issue doesn’t play anywhere in the country but Florida, and here I think it’s a liability to say ‘let’s normalize relations with Cuba.’ ”

“It’s not going to win you any votes, but it will lose you votes,” the strategist added. “I think this is kind of an admission of that.”

 

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“A Cuba policy shift is not currently among President Biden’s top priorities,” Psaki told reporters at a daily briefing. “But we are committed to making human rights a core pillar of our U.S. policy and we are committed to carefully reviewing policy decisions made in the prior administration, including the decision to designate Cuba as a state sponsor of terrorism,” she said.

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“Americans, especially Cuban Americans, are the best ambassadors for freedom and prosperity in Cuba.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-cuba/biden-reviewing-trumps-listing-of-cuba-as-terrorism-sponsor-white-house-idUSKBN2B12IV

And don't think they don't notice on the other side of the Straits....

 

But hey, no sweat.  Biden really doesn't need my support. 

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Is installing a measure of competence in the vaccine roll out immediately after taking office enough to gain my support for another term? I ask because that's all I see with a chance of happening. The answer is "no" for me, especially after bullshitting about Cuba. 

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11 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Is installing a measure of competence in the vaccine roll out immediately after taking office enough to gain my support for another term? I ask because that's all I see with a chance of happening. The answer is "no" for me, especially after bullshitting about Cuba. 

 

If he's up against Trump again, would you vote for him into a second term?

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6 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

If he's up against Trump again, would you vote for him into a second term?

I’d vote for a piece of wood if it were running against Trump.

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4 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

If he's up against Trump again, would you vote for him into a second term?

I don’t know. I won’t vote for Trump. I’d have to see the ballot to see who is on it, and have the benefit of the next couple of years to see what Biden has accomplished. If a normal conservative breaks from The Party and is on the ballot, that would likely be my choice. 

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t know. I won’t vote for Trump. I’d have to see the ballot to see who is on it, and have the benefit of the next couple of years to see what Biden has accomplished. If a normal conservative breaks from The Party and is on the ballot, that would likely be my choice. 

I don't see that happening in the current version of the GOP.

Take a look at their 2020 Platform, from the RNC.

They are all in with The Former Guy.

 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Is installing a measure of competence in the vaccine roll out immediately after taking office enough to gain my support for another term? I ask because that's all I see with a chance of happening. The answer is "no" for me, especially after bullshitting about Cuba. 

Well, at least there is no doubt that every thing is a political calculation run through the filter of “will it get me re-elected” or not rather than doing something because it is the right thing to do and is in the best national interest of this nation.  I am disappointed.  It’s almost as if they are punishing FL for voting the way they did....Sounds very trumpian.  

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

I don't see that happening in the current version of the GOP.

Take a look at their 2020 Platform, from the RNC.

They are all in with The Former Guy.

 

Not a 100% sure about that.  My early prediction is Ben Sasse is going to run in 2024.  

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Is installing a measure of competence in the vaccine roll out immediately after taking office enough to gain my support for another term? I ask because that's all I see with a chance of happening. The answer is "no" for me, especially after bullshitting about Cuba. 

You won’t have to worry about Biden.  Gavin Newsom will likely be the nominee.

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10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Not a 100% sure about that.  My early prediction is Ben Sasse is going to run in 2024.  

He may run.  Will he be the nominee of the Trumpublican Party?

Not unless they crazy folks cede control.

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Biden on the campaign trail, discussing Cuba policy:

You and your cites make a fair criticism. 

There are lots of progressives among the Miami Cubans, but the old guard reactionaries still run the show. 

I wonder how they reconcile their support for the Drumph with his obvious affinity for Roosia ?? 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t know. I won’t vote for Trump. I’d have to see the ballot to see who is on it, and have the benefit of the next couple of years to see what Biden has accomplished. If a normal conservative breaks from The Party and is on the ballot, that would likely be my choice. 

If you can convince more of your fellow Floridians that we should normalize relations, BOTH parties would do it. As it is, Florida is swung by what, 10k votes each 4 years, and is key to the national election, so those hundred thou old cubans who live there get to be king-(queen?) maker.

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t know. I won’t vote for Trump. I’d have to see the ballot to see who is on it, and have the benefit of the next couple of years to see what Biden has accomplished. If a normal conservative breaks from The Party and is on the ballot, that would likely be my choice. 

You may want to check whether that 'normal' conservative favors normalization of relations with Cuba. This is a touchstone issue with conservatives (for some incoherent reason). They wouldn't even confirm Obama's ambassador. Best I can tell, there are no conservatives, 'normal' or nutjob, who are in favor of this. For example, Ben Sasse opposed Obama's attempt at closing Guantanamo and also for normalizing trade.

https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2016/2/sasse-statement-on-president-s-unlawful-guantanamo-plan

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/marco-rubio-says-cuba-talks-are-absurd-113639

There is also the issue of the attacks on our embassy personnel in Havana.

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1) I care about Cuba policy. But not that much. 

2) Biden is a politician.

3) Biden needs support of Congress to change the policy back.  Biden needs bigger things from Congress than this right now.

4) If Biden pushes to change the policy back:

- GOP will say Biden is in bed with commies and enemies of merica

- Fox et al will say it is payoff for Venezuela voting machine rigged election steal scam Hunter Biden etc and so on.

- Cuba will keep helping Maduro, Colombian guerrillas and US fugitives.

- Florida Cubans will be happy. Biden will still lose Florida.

- Biden will fail because Congress won’t support.

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13 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

You may want to check whether that 'normal' conservative favors normalization of relations with Cuba. This is a touchstone issue with conservatives. They wouldn't even confirm Obama's ambassador. Best I can tell, there are no conservatives, 'normal' or nutjob, who are in favor of this. For example, Ben Sasse opposed Obama's attempt at closing Guantanamo and also normalizing trade.

https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2016/2/sasse-statement-on-president-s-unlawful-guantanamo-plan

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/marco-rubio-says-cuba-talks-are-absurd-113639

There is also the issue of the attacks on our embassy personnel in Havana.

Re the embassy, that was Vlad’s handiwork. The Russians play with directed energy weapons, not the Cubans. Of course there were plenty of bullshitters willing to point the finger at the Cubans before it started happening in China and DC. Nobody asks them about it now. 
 

Jeff Flake favors thawing relations with Cuba. 
 

Biden could restore Obama policy with a one-sentence executive order, the same way Trump ended it. He promised to, see above. He’s promised a lot. Time will tell if he or his party can deliver, but he’s got himself a title over this one. 

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t know. I won’t vote for Trump. I’d have to see the ballot to see who is on it, and have the benefit of the next couple of years to see what Biden has accomplished. If a normal conservative breaks from The Party and is on the ballot, that would likely be my choice. 

Biden is a normal conservative.  It will probably take someone towards the left to push for normalizing relationships with a country that is a long day sail from our shores.

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2 minutes ago, The_Real_XYZ said:

Yes, I would NEVER vote for someone who reconsidered their position.

I voted for someone who took a very specific position on an issue he knew well. Nothing changed from the time he took the position until the time he broke his promise...except losing to the Pride of the GOP in Florida. He was always going to lose Florida and always will. And in 2024 he’ll lose by one vote more. 

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Re the embassy, that was Vlad’s handiwork. The Russians play with directed energy weapons, not the Cubans. Of course there were plenty of bullshitters willing to point the finger at the Cubans before it started happening in China and DC. Nobody asks them about it now. 
 

Jeff Flake favors thawing relations with Cuba. 
 

Biden could restore Obama policy with a one-sentence executive order, the same way Trump ended it. He promised to, see above. He’s promised a lot. Time will tell if he or his party can deliver, but he’s got himself a title over this one. 

I agree that this is Putin's handiwork but nothing happens on that island without the Cubans knowing about it. Just as you are abSOLutely correct that Biden could restore Obama's policy with a one-sentence executive order, the Cubans could boot out the Sovs today if they wanted to. Just as Republicans cynically see this as an organizing principle, the Cuban govmint does as well. It's hard to get over that hump and Biden's been in office for all of 4+ months.

Obama's normalization had a lot to do with Fidel+Obama seeing each other as humans. Note that the Havana attacks started *after* Raul Castro became president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome

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20 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I agree that this is Putin's handiwork but nothing happens on that island without the Cubans knowing about it. Just as you are abSOLutely correct that Biden could restore Obama's policy with a one-sentence executive order, the Cubans could boot out the Sovs today if they wanted to.

The normalization had a lot to do with Fidel+Obama seeing each other as humans. The Havana attacks started *after* Raul Castro became president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome

Obama’s policy shift started after Raul took over too. The attacks may have started after Raul stepped down as Pres, I’m not sure. Diaz Canel took over in 2018, so it may have been happening during the transition. 
 

The Russians know everything that goes on in Cuba. Their embassy spy shop is still in full swing. From offshore it looks like the handle of a sword buried deep into the heart of Havana, and it extends as far underground as it does above. They know far more about the Cubans than the Cubans know about them. 

49C159EB-C0A8-4B0E-A4BD-D004A63696C8.jpeg

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13 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I voted for someone who took a very specific position on an issue he knew well. Nothing changed from the time he took the position until the time he broke his promise...except losing to the Pride of the GOP in Florida. He was always going to lose Florida and always will. And in 2024 he’ll lose by one vote more. 

Yes, preventing the rise of the 4th Reich is small potatoes next to cuba.

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14 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Obama’s policy shift started after Raul took over too. The attacks may have started after Raul stepped down as Pres, I’m not sure. Diaz Canel took over in 2018, so it may have been happening during the transition. 
 

The Russians know everything that goes on in Cuba. Their embassy spy shop is still in full swing. From offshore it looks like the handle of a sword buried deep into the heart of Havana, and it extends as far underground as it does above. They know far more about the Cubans than the Cubans know about them. 

There's a new Alzheimer's treatment that just got approved. A little pricey but I'll look into it. Maybe I was remembering Carter ditching his security detail and walking across the street and getting a drink with Fidel when he was there as an emissary for Bill.

The attacks started in 2016 and Raul was definitely running the cabaret. Again, if the Cubans wanted to give the Sovs the boot, they could. I don't think they're getting much from them these days since the USSR folded. However, maybe they see this as playing the Great Game. Maybe they're right at that. But they definitely are making a choice; they have agency.

The Miami Cubans get something out of this. Republicans get something out of this. The Cuban govmint gets something out of this. The Sovs are getting something out of this. It's a hard nut.

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2 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

There's a new Alzheimer's treatment that just got approved. A little pricey but I'll look into it. Maybe I was remembering Carter ditching his security detail and walking across the street and getting a drink with Fidel when he was there as an emissary for Bill.

The attacks started in 2016 and Raul was definitely running the cabaret. Again, if the Cubans wanted to give the Sovs the boot, they could. I don't think they're getting much from them these days since the USSR folded. However, maybe they see this as playing the Great Game. Maybe they're right at that. But they definitely are making a choice; they have agency.

The Miami Cubans get something out of this. Republicans get something out of this. The Cuban govmint gets something out of this. The Sovs are getting something out of this. It's a hard nut.

I'm not so sure about the 2016 start of this stuff, though perhaps we just weren't hearing about it.  It wasn't until Trump started messing with the rules for traveling to Cuba that we started hearing about the attacks. Suffice to say that there's a reason I follow this closely, and my activities were going strong with no negative news to consider until at least mid 2018. Things were actually getting better for me in 2018, not worse, in terms of treatment by the Cubans. That said, I am neither diplomat nor diplomatic. If anything bad had been public, my activities would have been stopped then and there. 

The US is the new kid in town in Havana, or we were.  The Russians were not going to get kicked out, nor will they. They go way back.... 

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23 minutes ago, The_Real_XYZ said:

Yes, preventing the rise of the 4th Reich is small potatoes next to cuba.

and you think the democrats will stop that?  They are worried about being in the right. The GOP is worried about being in power. They are playing checkers and the GOP is playing "Fuck you, make me." Until someone in democrat leadership grows a stout pair of balls, stands up and does what they say they're going to do, our democratic republic is at risk. 

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3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

and you think the democrats will stop that?  They are worried about being in the right. The GOP is worried about being in power. They are playing checkers and the GOP is playing "Fuck you, make me." Until someone in democrat leadership grows a stout pair of balls, stands up and does what they say they're going to do, our democratic republic is at risk. 

Correct.

The next election that Republicans win, will be the last one.

- DSK

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I think it's a great shame for the USA to punish average Cuban citizens for the "sins" of their former govt.

A working relationship would help not only the tourist arm of the govt. but also the regular Jose on the street.

 Most of the rest of the world gets along just fine with Cuba. Why the 60 year old animosity? It's stupid, and helps no one.

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18 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

There's a new Alzheimer's treatment that just got approved. A little pricey but I'll look into it. Maybe I was remembering Carter ditching his security detail and walking across the street and getting a drink with Fidel when he was there as an emissary for Bill.

The attacks started in 2016 and Raul was definitely running the cabaret. Again, if the Cubans wanted to give the Sovs the boot, they could. I don't think they're getting much from them these days since the USSR folded. However, maybe they see this as playing the Great Game. Maybe they're right at that. But they definitely are making a choice; they have agency.

The Miami Cubans get something out of this. Republicans get something out of this. The Cuban govmint gets something out of this. The Sovs are getting something out of this. It's a hard nut.

Carter doesn't drink.

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21 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

and you think the democrats will stop that?  They are worried about being in the right. The GOP is worried about being in power. They are playing checkers and the GOP is playing "Fuck you, make me." Until someone in democrat leadership grows a stout pair of balls, stands up and does what they say they're going to do, our democratic republic is at risk. 

Sure they can.

The problem isn't even republicans, the party has lost control.  The problem is the unrestricted access of the internet.  There is a reason china and russia are partitioning their internets.

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6 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I voted for someone who took a very specific position on an issue he knew well. Nothing changed from the time he took the position until the time he broke his promise...except losing to the Pride of the GOP in Florida. He was always going to lose Florida and always will. And in 2024 he’ll lose by one vote more. 

 

What I will say is that any presidential candidate that relies on 1 state to take the presidency is not aiming high enough.

 

More principally, doing the right thing should get more votes. Not doing the right thing should lose votes.

 

It's unfortunate that the right thing is now so  co opted and corrupted that Cuba is even a issue

 

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7 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

1) I care about Cuba policy. But not that much. 

2) Biden is a politician.

3) Biden needs support of Congress to change the policy back.  Biden needs bigger things from Congress than this right now.

4) If Biden pushes to change the policy back:

- GOP will say Biden is in bed with commies and enemies of merica

- Fox et al will say it is payoff for Venezuela voting machine rigged election steal scam Hunter Biden etc and so on.

- Cuba will keep helping Maduro, Colombian guerrillas and US fugitives.

- Florida Cubans will be happy. Biden will still lose Florida.

- Biden will fail because Congress won’t support.

All good points.  But #2 is the only thing that really matters.  And I don't mean that in necessarily a bad way and certainly not in a partisan way.  It's just the rules of the game.  Its sausage making.  I wish we lived in a world where politicians didn't make policy based on which way the wind blew on a given day..... but if they didn't, the sad reality is they would not be successful politicians.  For this reason especially, I advocate for term limits for congress critters.  I would like to get to a point where they don't have to care about re-election or fund-raising and they just do the right thing because it's the right thing.  But who am I kidding?  That'll never happen.

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58 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

All good points.  But #2 is the only thing that really matters.  And I don't mean that in necessarily a bad way and certainly not in a partisan way.  It's just the rules of the game.  Its sausage making.  I wish we lived in a world where politicians didn't make policy based on which way the wind blew on a given day..... but if they didn't, the sad reality is they would not be successful politicians.  For this reason especially, I advocate for term limits for congress critters.  I would like to get to a point where they don't have to care about re-election or fund-raising and they just do the right thing because it's the right thing.  But who am I kidding?  That'll never happen.

On the state level term limits have some really bad outcomes.  If you ran a business would you fire your employees after they became proficient at their jobs and hire all new people?

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm kind of disappointed... realistic forward-looking policy -should- gain votes, but that's not the way it often works, unfortunately.

- DSK

Jeez, did you and Sol just fall off the turnip truck?

When you aren't happy with the decisions of your public servants, what good does it do to bitch and moan to a bunch of professional drinkers with sailing addictions, and pretend that you won't vote for them again? The whole point of a "representative democracy" is that you and Sol get to control the process.

This ain't rocket surgery ... contact your Senators, Congresspersons and applicable lobbyists, letters-to-editors, two minutes at your local Optimists, Rotary Clubs and Masonic Lodges and just state your case.  If Cuba is your thing, and you don't like Biden's approach, get him to change it ... the squeaky gear gets the grease.

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8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

I think it's a great shame for the USA to punish average Cuban citizens for the "sins" of their former govt.

A working relationship would help not only the tourist arm of the govt. but also the regular Jose on the street.

 Most of the rest of the world gets along just fine with Cuba. Why the 60 year old animosity? It's stupid, and helps no one.

You hypocrite scab.

Over 90% of Cuban workers belong to labor unions, versus only about 10% of U.S. workers. And you already claimed that you despise unions. Why would a scab like you give a rat's blue asshole about the "regular Jose on the street"? The 60 year old animosity you describe is in part BECAUSE Cuba has no place for scabs and they decided to drop out of the U.S. Client State system and allow their workers to take a stake.

And even with that ... EVEN WITH THAT, they are run by a dysfunctional band of commies who can't put aside their ideals for the good of those millions of Cuban union workers. Fuck the Cuban Communists, fuck the scabs who seek to disembowel the labor unions and fuck the fake-ass Americans who cry crocodile tears for the fate of the hard-working Cubans but can't be bothered to support hard-working Americans who have chosen to unionize and protect their interests. You should all find yourselves on a flotilla of air mattresses between Cuba and Miami and encircled by a global convention of hungry barracudas and horny dolphins to like to sodomize scabs.

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

There's a new Alzheimer's treatment that just got approved. A little pricey but I'll look into it. Maybe I was remembering Carter ditching his security detail and walking across the street and getting a drink with Fidel when he was there as an emissary for Bill.

The attacks started in 2016 and Raul was definitely running the cabaret. Again, if the Cubans wanted to give the Sovs the boot, they could. I don't think they're getting much from them these days since the USSR folded. However, maybe they see this as playing the Great Game. Maybe they're right at that. But they definitely are making a choice; they have agency.

The Miami Cubans get something out of this. Republicans get something out of this. The Cuban govmint gets something out of this. The Sovs are getting something out of this. It's a hard nut.

They are supposedly still running. Political imprisonments, detention of dissidents, censorship. I'm not sure if it's improved or not.

But the whole point of what the USA needed Cuba to do, is now gone. The original justification of Cuba is that we would find a Communist country close to the USA and then lock it in amber, so Americans could see the failure of Communism, like a big dysfunctional billboard. Those days are gone. The Cuban-American contribution is critical, and as some of the only people that really understand the realities on the ground over there, they can help to guide this whole unfolding.

But Cuban-Americans are remarkably conservative. They often don't support lefties who want to open it up their way, many of them (maybe most of them?) are going to support a G.W. Bush style agenda that requires the removal of the Castro regime. The lefties are going to lose their cookies over this kind of thing. But we can't keep this running like this. Ultimately, the Cubans will remove the Castro regime, but it will only happen when the economic forces make it impossible for the regime to hold onto the country. So we start bargaining ... obviously the biggest chip we have is Guantanamo Bay, and we will need to give that back eventually, the lease is damned near illegal, it's "for as long as necessary." Can we use Gauntamo to drop our trade barriers and embargo and create the conditions to remove the Castro regime, or possibly help the Cubans transition the Castros over to a representative democracy?

Ultimately, the commies in Cuba have to get with the program. Cubans need free and fair elections. And if we pull of the amber, they might have a chance to make that happen. But with the ongoing lockdown? Nope.

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36 minutes ago, mikewof said:

They are supposedly still running. Political imprisonments, detention of dissidents, censorship. I'm not sure if it's improved or not.

But the whole point of what the USA needed Cuba to do, is now gone. The original justification of Cuba is that we would find a Communist country close to the USA and then lock it in amber, so Americans could see the failure of Communism, like a big dysfunctional billboard. Those days are gone. The Cuban-American contribution is critical, and as some of the only people that really understand the realities on the ground over there, they can help to guide this whole unfolding.

But Cuban-Americans are remarkably conservative. They often don't support lefties who want to open it up their way, many of them (maybe most of them?) are going to support a G.W. Bush style agenda that requires the removal of the Castro regime. The lefties are going to lose their cookies over this kind of thing. But we can't keep this running like this. Ultimately, the Cubans will remove the Castro regime, but it will only happen when the economic forces make it impossible for the regime to hold onto the country. So we start bargaining ... obviously the biggest chip we have is Guantanamo Bay, and we will need to give that back eventually, the lease is damned near illegal, it's "for as long as necessary." Can we use Gauntamo to drop our trade barriers and embargo and create the conditions to remove the Castro regime, or possibly help the Cubans transition the Castros over to a representative democracy?

Ultimately, the commies in Cuba have to get with the program. Cubans need free and fair elections. And if we pull of the amber, they might have a chance to make that happen. But with the ongoing lockdown? Nope.

Why do they need free and fair elections? 30% of the electorate here doesn’t think that way.

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The Cuban situation has been farcical for a long time, ever since the USSR folded. Nobody outside Florida seems to give a flying fuck. The US could conquer and occupy the whole place in 24 hours, using just the military assets based in Florida, and lease it to Disney Corp. as a charming 3rd-world theme park, complete with funky food, great music, and amazingly improvised old cars.

One of the feature exhibits would be: "This is what proper free state health care for all looks like."

 

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6 hours ago, Burning Man said:

It's just the rules of the game.  Its sausage making.  I wish we lived in a world where politicians didn't make policy based on which way the wind blew on a given day..... but if they didn't, the sad reality is they would not be successful politicians. 

I bet he will go for it on Cuba if he gets a solid senate majority at some point. But he doesn’t have a majority now. That’s just reality. 

If you voted for Biden and won’t vote for him now, after 5 months, and you’re willing to vote for Republican because Biden won’t run up the hill and get killed in the Senate over Cuba policy then you need to take a breath.

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2 hours ago, Happy said:

The US could conquer and occupy the whole place in 24 hours

We could but we don’t even really want to run Puerto Rico, let alone Cuba. Last year we wanted to trade PR so we could build golf courses in Greenland.

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2 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Last year we wanted to trade PR so we could build golf courses in Greenland.

What's this "we" shit?

That was an idiotic idea exclusive to The Former Guy.

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On 6/8/2021 at 9:48 AM, billy backstay said:

 

If he's up against Trump again, would you vote for him into a second term?

If he puts someone competent as the VP it's a toss up. He really should have chosen Tulsi Gabbard for VP instead of Harris, who is totally incompetent.

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14 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

If he puts someone competent as the VP it's a toss up. He really should have chosen Tulsi Gabbard for VP instead of Harris, who is totally incompetent.

 

Well, we suppose that you will probably vote for anyone the GOP puts up, so long as it's not Trump...

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9 hours ago, Olsonist said:

They should keep it open and house every person who breached a barricade at the Capitol on 1/6/21 (or helped organize or plan their actions) there for the rest of their lives. 

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17 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

I bet he will go for it on Cuba if he gets a solid senate majority at some point. But he doesn’t have a majority now. That’s just reality. 

If you voted for Biden and won’t vote for him now, after 5 months, and you’re willing to vote for Republican because Biden won’t run up the hill and get killed in the Senate over Cuba policy then you need to take a breath.

Second term. When he has more flexibility.

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9 hours ago, mikewof said:

Good move.

Close it down and return it to its owner. Anything that removes wind from the Castro regime's sails is smart. Those fuggers have to gtfo.

You realise the Castro's are dead, right?

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On 6/8/2021 at 1:25 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

I voted for someone who took a very specific position on an issue he knew well. Nothing changed from the time he took the position until the time he broke his promise...except losing to the Pride of the GOP in Florida. He was always going to lose Florida and always will. And in 2024 he’ll lose by one vote more. 

This.  It doesn't matter if he loses Florida by 10 votes or a million.  He's going to lose because Florida is batshit crazy, but he could still win the EC easily like last time.  So he should do the right thing, follow his own (and Obama's) lead, and normalize.  Would be better for the DNC to concentrate on the idiot senators anyway.

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Some years back, I was strolling around Little Havana 

wearing one of my favorite baseball caps - with the United Farm Workers logo on it. 

Something like below . . 

An old Miami Cuban guy told me to go back to Russia. 

United Farm Workers - Wikipedia

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7 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

You realise the Castro's are dead, right?

Forget it, he’s rolling. The Germans are bombing Pearl Harbor.

It’s time for a few moments on Google Expert, to become America’s foremost authority on Cuban political life. 

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8 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Second term. When he has more flexibility.

He’s the first candidate to make the promise period, let alone before ever being elected. They usually just do it... in the second term when they have no more elections to win. Clinton and Obama both eased tensions with Cuba in their second terms, when it’s easy. This won’t help him win Florida. No democRAT will win a statewide election in Florida until they regain the majority in the state legislature, and we’re 20 years or more from that. I do not expect to see it in my lifetime. 

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I have not lived in South Florida, Hialeah more specifically, since the mid 1970's.  At that time, virtually all the Cuban people I knew (the majority of people I knew), were immigrants, not born here.  They seemed to really have a hard on for Kennedy and therefore Democrats for not taking back Cuba from Castro.  The people I am still in contact with from that generation are still staunch Republicans.  Extremely well educated, intelligent and successful Cuban Americans that fully support Trump, while making excuses for his personal failings.

Does the new generation of Cuban Americans, born here and removed from the mass immigration by a couple of generations, remain committed Republican?  Do they want a revised relationship with Cuba?  The I-4 corridor seems to have flipped.  If South Florida flipped with a large majority, Florida would reliably flip, at least on a national level.  It has several times already.  It is close.  Florida north of Orlando, with the exception of Gainesville, probably will remain red, but heck, even Jacksonville has gone blue for national elections in the past.  We even had an African American, Democratic mayor for one term.

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11 minutes ago, bridhb said:

I have not lived in South Florida, Hialeah more specifically, since the mid 1970's.  At that time, virtually all the Cuban people I knew (the majority of people I knew), were immigrants, not born here.  They seemed to really have a hard on for Kennedy and therefore Democrats for not taking back Cuba from Castro.  The people I am still in contact with from that generation are still staunch Republicans.  Extremely well educated, intelligent and successful Cuban Americans that fully support Trump, while making excuses for his personal failings.

Does the new generation of Cuban Americans, born here and removed from the mass immigration by a couple of generations, remain committed Republican?  Do they want a revised relationship with Cuba?  The I-4 corridor seems to have flipped.  If South Florida flipped with a large majority, Florida would reliably flip, at least on a national level.  It has several times already.  It is close.  Florida north of Orlando, with the exception of Gainesville, probably will remain red, but heck, even Jacksonville has gone blue for national elections in the past.  We even had an African American, Democratic mayor for one term.

True, but Florida has now codified the voter suppression techniques perfected by the Florida GOP over the last few decades. Investors need to know that they are not throwing good money after bad, and now they can invest in The Party, secure in the knowledge that they will control the state for the long term. 

Younger Cuban Americans trend toward favoring better relations, but you are correct, the older generations are dead set on expanding freedom in Cuba by limiting it here. The money for that push comes from folks who want their land back, who liked the previous dictator better than the Castros. The US government codified that for them in Helms Burton, giving them the avenue to tie up our courts as a way to fuck with anyone doing business in Cuba on their ancestral land. Too bad the Native American Tribes don't have such compliant whores on Capitol Hill.... 

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I was at the Mondale Presidential Campaign headquarters as the vote came in circa 1984.  Really great party.

I lamented that so many votes stayed at home.  Somebody was forcibly taken away before they made me bleed.

The fascist few will see what voting rights means.  We elected two Democratic US Senators in Georgia.  Our appetite is growing.

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On 6/9/2021 at 2:20 AM, loneshark64 said:

I bet he will go for it on Cuba if he gets a solid senate majority at some point. But he doesn’t have a majority now. That’s just reality. 

If you voted for Biden and won’t vote for him now, after 5 months, and you’re willing to vote for Republican because Biden won’t run up the hill and get killed in the Senate over Cuba policy then you need to take a breath.

Concur

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57 minutes ago, Burning Man said:
On 6/9/2021 at 5:20 AM, loneshark64 said:

I bet he will go for it on Cuba if he gets a solid senate majority at some point. But he doesn’t have a majority now. That’s just reality. 

If you voted for Biden and won’t vote for him now, after 5 months, and you’re willing to vote for Republican because Biden won’t run up the hill and get killed in the Senate over Cuba policy then you need to take a breath.

Concur

I got the impression that Sol was making a "funny"

- DSK

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On 6/8/2021 at 12:36 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

Is installing a measure of competence in the vaccine roll out immediately after taking office enough to gain my support for another term? I ask because that's all I see with a chance of happening. The answer is "no" for me, especially after bullshitting about Cuba. 

What measure of competence?  The vaccine was rolling out before he was inaugurated.

Here are the dates of the orders.  I can give you links to the manufacturers press releases if you like

First number is initial order based on approval.  Second number are options for the totals to filled on demand.

The Pfizer order shows 100 500 on 22 July.  On 23 December, another 100 million was confimed which left options for 400 Million

Numbers are in Millions.

        Amt (M)    Option (M)
21-May    AstraZeneca    300    
7-Jul    Novavax    100    
22-Jul    Pfizer Order    100    500
31-Jul    GSK/Sanofi    100    
5-Aug    J&J    100    
11-Aug    Moderna    100    
12-Aug    Moderna        400
11-Dec    Pfizer Approved        
18-Dec    Moderna Approved        
23-Dec    Pfizer Order    100    400
27-Jan    Pfizer Order    200    
27-Jan    Moderna Order    200    
27-Feb    Johnson&Johnson approved   

So, there were provisional orders for 700 million doses as of mid august and more than a billion optioned in total.

Like anything else, rollouts take a bit of time to ramp up.

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12 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

True, but Florida has now codified the voter suppression techniques perfected by the Florida GOP over the last few decades. Investors need to know that they are not throwing good money after bad, and now they can invest in The Party, secure in the knowledge that they will control the state for the long term. 

Younger Cuban Americans trend toward favoring better relations, but you are correct, the older generations are dead set on expanding freedom in Cuba by limiting it here. The money for that push comes from folks who want their land back, who liked the previous dictator better than the Castros. The US government codified that for them in Helms Burton, giving them the avenue to tie up our courts as a way to fuck with anyone doing business in Cuba on their ancestral land. Too bad the Native American Tribes don't have such compliant whores on Capitol Hill.... 

The number of "Older generations who want their land back" is near zero at this point. The whole point of the revolution was not to steal land from farmers, or merchants, but to liberate those people from the gangsters, mobsters, from the USA and elsewhere that had taken over the entire economy of the island.

If you were a 30 y/o land owner in 1958 you'd be 93 years old.....

The problem was that the USA backed the mobsters, and the USSR backed Castro and Guevara.

Castro was corrupt, and became more so as he encountered more and more obstruction from the USA.

 I think that it's very likely that if Kennedy, and then Johnson, had offered a hand instead of a fist, that Cuba would have been a great neighbor. I think they still can be, if we (The USA) stop treating them like cockroaches.

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24 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Like anything else, rollouts take a bit of time to ramp up.

What rollout?

 "There was no distribution plan for the coronavirus vaccine set up by the Trump administration as the virus raged in its last months in office, new President Joe Biden’s chief of staff, Ron Klain, said on Sunday.

“The process to distribute the vaccine, particularly outside of nursing homes and hospitals out into the community as a whole, did not really exist when we came into the White House,” Klain said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-klain/trump-administration-had-no-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-plan-white-house-idUSKBN29T0FY

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

What measure of competence?  The vaccine was rolling out before he was inaugurated.

Here are the dates of the orders.  I can give you links to the manufacturers press releases if you like

First number is initial order based on approval.  Second number are options for the totals to filled on demand.

The Pfizer order shows 100 500 on 22 July.  On 23 December, another 100 million was confimed which left options for 400 Million

Numbers are in Millions.

        Amt (M)    Option (M)
21-May    AstraZeneca    300    
7-Jul    Novavax    100    
22-Jul    Pfizer Order    100    500
31-Jul    GSK/Sanofi    100    
5-Aug    J&J    100    
11-Aug    Moderna    100    
12-Aug    Moderna        400
11-Dec    Pfizer Approved        
18-Dec    Moderna Approved        
23-Dec    Pfizer Order    100    400
27-Jan    Pfizer Order    200    
27-Jan    Moderna Order    200    
27-Feb    Johnson&Johnson approved   

So, there were provisional orders for 700 million doses as of mid august and more than a billion optioned in total.

Like anything else, rollouts take a bit of time to ramp up.

That is all true, and credit should be given to Trump but primarily to the people who worked under him to make it happen.

THen to balance against that credit, the horrible mismanagement... first of all, the deliberate dismantling of the US scientific branches of gov't service, so that there was limited info on emerging disease... then the deliberate mismanagement of the CoVid19 pandemic, including the attempts at stock market manipulation to profit instead of making an effort to protect the people; the downplaying of risk and dysfunctional rhetoric, and of course the complete lack of realistic plans to actually USE the vaccine and get it into arms ASAP when released.

This all falls on Trump's head... well, Kushner and certain Republican Senators can be blamed pretty heavily too, but a fish rots from the head first.

- DSK

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44 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That is all true, and credit should be given to Trump but primarily to the people who worked under him to make it happen.

 

Credit should be given to those who made it happen in spite of trump.

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16 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

He’s the first candidate to make the promise period, let alone before ever being elected. They usually just do it... in the second term when they have no more elections to win. Clinton and Obama both eased tensions with Cuba in their second terms, when it’s easy. This won’t help him win Florida. No democRAT will win a statewide election in Florida until they regain the majority in the state legislature, and we’re 20 years or more from that. I do not expect to see it in my lifetime. 

What are the chances of the Dems winning a senate seat?

It's the only political issue of importance if Florida is not expected to go to Biden in 24.

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7 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

What are the chances of the Dems winning a senate seat?

It's the only political issue of importance if Florida is not expected to go to Biden in 24.

Nil. Rep. Demmings is a good candidate, but she’s gonna get crushed. 

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18 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I got the impression that Sol was making a "funny"

- DSK

I can’t tell anymore. I’m old. Went sailing yesterday, wearing a tommy bahama, a grandpa hat, happy with 5kts, and wanted a nap. Old.

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22 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

I can’t tell anymore. I’m old. Went sailing yesterday, wearing a tommy bahama, a grandpa hat, happy with 5kts, and wanted a nap. Old.

Nah, I’m pretty pissed off. I was looking forward to a politician that said “FU” to practices that haven’t worked and embraced something new. Biden could send the seals to kill Fidel Castro himself and Cuban Americans would still hate him because he’s a democRAT. He’s the enemy. 
 

But it doesn’t have me walking around grumbling and plotting to storm the Capitol. I’m pretty content. I have a hell of a lot more free time as a result of that policy. Open Cuba means a ton of volunteer work gets dumped on me. 

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11 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Nah, I’m pretty pissed off. I was looking forward to a politician that said “FU” to practices that haven’t worked and embraced something new. Biden could send the seals to kill Fidel Castro himself and Cuban Americans would still hate him because he’s a democRAT. He’s the enemy. 
 

But it doesn’t have me walking around grumbling and plotting to storm the Capitol. I’m pretty content. I have a hell of a lot more free time as a result of that policy. Open Cuba means a ton of volunteer work gets dumped on me. 

Biden was never the guy that is going to kick over applecarts, and/or push The Machine in a new direction. He's the guy who loves The Machine, who has spent his life working on it and polishing it up. He knows what it can do, doesn't want to admit what it can't do, and he knows where all the knobs and buttons are and what they do. He can and will try to use The Machine to make the USA, and secondly the whole world, a better place.

If Biden is going to work on normalizing relations with Cuba, he's going to do it by means of putting The Machine to work on it.

That is frustrating. But it's better than pouring sand in the gears and cussing and shitting on the floor, which is the alternative

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Biden was never the guy that is going to kick over applecarts, and/or push The Machine in a new direction. He's the guy who loves The Machine, who has spent his life working on it and polishing it up. He knows what it can do, doesn't want to admit what it can't do, and he knows where all the knobs and buttons are and what they do. He can and will try to use The Machine to make the USA, and secondly the whole world, a better place.

If Biden is going to work on normalizing relations with Cuba, he's going to do it by means of putting The Machine to work on it.

That is frustrating. But it's better than pouring sand in the gears and cussing and shitting on the floor, which is the alternative

- DSK

I will say that a few months of boring has been nice, after five years of looking past the distraction every day to see the real crisis. Biden’s dog bit someone, let’s not forget that.

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That is all true, and credit should be given to Trump but primarily to the people who worked under him to make it happen.

THen to balance against that credit, the horrible mismanagement... first of all, the deliberate dismantling of the US scientific branches of gov't service, so that there was limited info on emerging disease... then the deliberate mismanagement of the CoVid19 pandemic, including the attempts at stock market manipulation to profit instead of making an effort to protect the people; the downplaying of risk and dysfunctional rhetoric, and of course the complete lack of realistic plans to actually USE the vaccine and get it into arms ASAP when released.

This all falls on Trump's head... well, Kushner and certain Republican Senators can be blamed pretty heavily too, but a fish rots from the head first.

- DSK

Folks like Saorsa behave as if they see one thing The Former Guy didn't complete fuck-up and cite it, as if it erases all of the previous and future fuck-ups.

It's been clear they are perfectly willing to overlook countless lies and outrageous behavior.  They just keep giving Mulligans.

Witness the pious Evangelicals overlooking adulterous affairs and serial marriages.

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38 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Folks like Saorsa behave as if they see one thing The Former Guy didn't complete fuck-up and cite it, as if it erases all of the previous and future fuck-ups.

It's been clear they are perfectly willing to overlook countless lies and outrageous behavior.  They just keep giving Mulligans.

Witness the pious Evangelicals overlooking adulterous affairs and serial marriages.

True, but don't under estimate the Own Tha Libs!! factor. The main thing they love-love-LOVE about Trump is that he pisses off the libtards.

Actually, only the skinheads and KKK'ers actually -love- Trump. The rest just see him destroying something they really fucken' hate-hate-HATE. Their shrivelled little souls do not love anything, not even their own children.

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

True, but don't under estimate the Own Tha Libs!! factor. The main thing they love-love-LOVE about Trump is that he pisses off the libtards.

Actually, only the skinheads and KKK'ers actually -love- Trump. The rest just see him destroying something they really fucken' hate-hate-HATE. Their shrivelled little souls do not love anything, not even their own children.

- DSK

I agree.  So sad that the ardent ones hate Democrats so much they are cool with destroying Democracy, simply because the labels are similar.

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The ardent ones cannot describe the meaning of larger-than-four-letter words such as socialism, insurrection, fascism, communism, democracy, autocratic, and many more.

Therefore, "hate the libs" wins out. Short words, no grey area. Much easier than actually having a functioning brain cell or three. 

 

Also, many of the same folk think their invisible sky oldwhiteman is going to send whitejesus back to earth to gather up the "good people." And how do they think this will happen? Of course, to make it interesting it'll be a massive apocopolypse. So there are those who think it's in their best interests to bring this on as quickly as possible. If we could only get them the right cool-aid or comet tail, rather than gunz, bombs, and nuclear submarines it would be better for those of us who would rather not be bothered with such nonsense. 

 

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15 hours ago, badlatitude said:

What rollout?

 "There was no distribution plan for the coronavirus vaccine set up by the Trump administration as the virus raged in its last months in office, new President Joe Biden’s chief of staff, Ron Klain, said on Sunday.

“The process to distribute the vaccine, particularly outside of nursing homes and hospitals out into the community as a whole, did not really exist when we came into the White House,” Klain said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-klain/trump-administration-had-no-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-plan-white-house-idUSKBN29T0FY

 

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4 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

 

Yep.

Good stuff.... what the fuck actually happened, though?

Two different things, talking about great plans... vs... actually getting it done

- DSK

 

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15 hours ago, badlatitude said:

What rollout?

 "There was no distribution plan for the coronavirus vaccine set up by the Trump administration as the virus raged in its last months in office, new President Joe Biden’s chief of staff, Ron Klain, said on Sunday.

“The process to distribute the vaccine, particularly outside of nursing homes and hospitals out into the community as a whole, did not really exist when we came into the White House,” Klain said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-klain/trump-administration-had-no-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-plan-white-house-idUSKBN29T0FY

The above video was presented on Nov 9th.

As to no prearation.

Bullshit.  The final delivery was left to the states where local resources and needs were known.  In Florida, we had a plan in place be to first reach the clusters of high risk.  Hospitals and care facilities got the first releases with the internal distribution contracted to CVS and Walgreen for storage and delivery.

Then more general distribution was contracted to Publix.  The major complaints were that it took too long to get an appointment but this was a matter of supply constraints and not lack of planning.  As the volume of available doses increased the backlog was cleared pretty quickly.

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Yet they discovered that there was no plan for distribution after Bide took over.

The couldn't (or refused to) recognize a plan if they saw one.

Do ya think that the POTUS Chief of Staff might just have, coulda had, a teensy-weensy bit of political bias in his assessment?

 

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2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

The couldn't (or refused to) recognize a plan if they saw one.

Do ya think that the POTUS Chief of Staff might just have, coulda had, a teensy-weensy bit of political bias in his assessment?

 

Perhaps.

Do ya think that the The Former Guy and his minions might just have, coulda had, a teensy-weensy problem with telling the truth?

I know which one of these two possible scenarios has been demonstrably proven.

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15 hours ago, badlatitude said:

What rollout?

 "There was no distribution plan for the coronavirus vaccine set up by the Trump administration as the virus raged in its last months in office, new President Joe Biden’s chief of staff, Ron Klain, said on Sunday.

B Press.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-klain/trump-administration-had-no-coronavirus-vaccine-distribution-plan-white-house-idUSKBN29T0FY

By way of comparison, the Kenyan left a full pandemic analysis and crisis playbook:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

which the Minister's boy Shitstain then promptly ignored for injecting disinfectant and shining a UV light up his ass.

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3 hours ago, Olsonist said:

By way of comparison, the Kenyan left a full pandemic analysis and crisis playbook:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

which the Minister's boy Shitstain then promptly ignored for injecting disinfectant and shining a UV light up his ass.

As if that worked at stopping Ebola.  Wait whut? 

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6 hours ago, Olsonist said:

By way of comparison, the Kenyan left a full pandemic analysis and crisis playbook:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/NSTC/towards_epidemic_prediction-federal_efforts_and_opportunities.pdf

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf

which the Minister's boy Shitstain then promptly ignored for injecting disinfectant and shining a UV light up his ass.

Had he updated it from the one Bush left him?  Why didn't he replenish the PFE stocks after giving them away for SARS?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-2005-wait-pandemic-late-prepare/story?id=69979013

 

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These was an obama era thing that was all set to happen, a facility was due to start producing a million of the high grade n95 masks every year for the stockpile.  That was one of the first things trump axed after he was in office.  He killed lots of people.

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