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https://www.chamberlainyachts.com/yacht-for-sale/inbox-267102/

I remember when this boat was first introduced. It received a ton of press and it wasn't a custom as the ad states. Last I heard, the tooling was still around but essentially trash.

It was an interesting idea. A boat that could be put in a cargo container and shipped to any port you wanted.

I believe it is a Robert Perry design but always wondered how it actually sailed, especially upwind.

$160K is a ton of money for a 15 year old orphan. For that kind of scratch, you can buy a host of classic Perry designs.

It has to be owned by the guy who started the company and is just trying to offset a small portion of the cost of design, tooling and production.

Still a fascinating concept and design. Would love to take it for a spin.

 

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Price doesn't seem high to me.  We paid more than that for a 20-year-old 40-foot production boat; if the work is good quality, why not?

Really interesting design for single- or double-handing.  If I were retired and wanted the option of sailing all over the world but didn't feel like crossing the oceans myself, it could be an intriguing prospect.

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1 minute ago, ChrisJD said:

Price doesn't seem high to me.  We paid more than that for a 20-year-old 40-foot production boat; if the work is good quality, why not?

Really interesting design for single- or double-handing.  If I were retired and wanted the option of sailing all over the world but didn't feel like crossing the oceans myself, it could be an intriguing prospect.

I totally agree it was an interesting concept and yes it appears to be a great solo platform. Based on the pics, it's hard to imagine more than two aboard for any length of time though.

This boat has a beam of less than 8'. Pretty hard to compare price with your boat as the volume is probably double or more of Inbox.

Just saw another one in California for sale. It's been on the market some time and the asking price is in the $120's.

It's a buyer's market and there is so much out there where you get a lot more bang for the buck.

Would love to hear from Bob about this boat. I am sure it was a huge challenge.

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There is a Swede 55 for sale in the SA classifieds. The boat has a 9.7 beam and I am sure it can go just about anywhere.

Asking price is $65K and I doubt he will get $50K for it.

Looks like it is in decent condition.

Although you will not slide it into a container, I would take this and save an easy $100K.

 

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I think I remember BP saying that three were built. 

I think it's an example of the phenomenon that people dont want to but something unconventional because they worry they couldn't sell if when the time comes. This boat isn't far out in any big way, just biased a little in a particular direction.

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As ChrisJD notes above, this is a boat for people who want to sail all over the world but don't want to cross oceans in a small boat.  It would work well for one to three people, tho four might feel a bit claustrophobic, depending on tastes.

But it's a marmite boat.  If you want to adopt that container shipping model of world cruising, there's nothing else like it.  If you don't want to regularly ship your boat in a container, then this would be a silly choice, because the narrow beam is a big compromise to make if you don't need to make it.

I hope the boat finds someone who wants it for its designed purpose.

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

I believe it is a Robert Perry design but always wondered how it actually sailed, especially upwind.

My guess would be that it sails quite well upwind and downwind but lacks power on a reach, not a big issue on a cruising boat as reaching is easy.

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6 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

What an ugly shitbox!  I'm surprised Bob Perry allows his name to be on it.  

Considering the parameters Bob Perry had to work with, I think he came up with a fairly nice looking boat.

But pretty to one is obviously ugly to another.

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I've seen it sailing on Penobscot Bay. It sails pretty well considering the beam and the short rig.

 

Bob Perry was given the design brief: It's gotta fit in an 8' container. I think he came up with a great boat considering that design limit. 

 

Like all new boats (it seems to me), the owners sell them pretty quickly, and for pennies on the dollar. 

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15 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

As ChrisJD notes above, this is a boat for people who want to sail all over the world but don't want to cross oceans in a small boat.  It would work well for one to three people, tho four might feel a bit claustrophobic, depending on tastes.

But it's a marmite boat.  If you want to adopt that container shipping model of world cruising, there's nothing else like it.  If you don't want to regularly ship your boat in a container, then this would be a silly choice, because the narrow beam is a big compromise to make if you don't need to make it.

I hope the boat finds someone who wants it for its designed purpose.

I think the intended audience for this boat just doesn't exist. At least in a quantity large enough to justify putting it into production.

It seems much easier and less expensive to charter where you want to visit.

The kids are grown and I have moved down do an old J/22. I would consider this as a replacement but the price is so out of touch with the market.

So if the Swede 55 on the classifieds is $65K, what is it really worth today?

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

It seems much easier and less expensive to charter where you want to visit.

I always hear this, but dammit, I own my boat and I have a different relationship with it than any other boat.  It would have been a lot less expensive for me to charter an Oyster for a few weeks every summer than it was for me to buy my very not-Oyster, but this one is mine.  If I were going to go bum around the Med for six months, I'd want to do it on my boat, not a charter.

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The Broker doesn't bother to give the displacement (bad sign!), the big engine suggests that it is quite heavy but the hull doesn't look too deep, so I am not so sure. I quite like how the pilot house is treated, just fear that it might be too much of a motorsailer in term of sail area over displacement.

Also I wonder if it is a lifting keel or if you have to remove the keel each time you ship it!

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26 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Also I wonder if it is a lifting keel or if you have to remove the keel each time you ship it!

Probably not a lift keel.  Lifting keels intrude into accommodation even in beamy boats ... but with only 8' beam, the keel case would really screw up the interior layout.

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27 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The Broker doesn't bother to give the displacement (bad sign!), the big engine suggests that it is quite heavy but the hull doesn't look too deep, so I am not so sure. I quite like how the pilot house is treated, just fear that it might be too much of a motorsailer in term of sail area over displacement.

Also I wonder if it is a lifting keel or if you have to remove the keel each time you ship it!

The bulb keel is removed and placed in the container with the boat. It is bolted back on when it arrives at its new destination. I think the mast is also in two sections as well.

Draft is 6' 2" and it weighs in at 13,000 lbs. according to the listing in Yachtworld.

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1 hour ago, OneWorldSailing said:

I think the intended audience for this boat just doesn't exist. At least in a quantity large enough to justify putting it into production.

This boat was basically trying to create a new market.  That can be done, but when that new market is a narrow and expensive niche, it takes sustained and expensive effort.

This boat was unlucky in that it was about 3–5 years too early for the takeoff of social media.  A social media campaign would have been a great way of marketing this boat.

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You need 2 containers then. And some big bolts to bolt it together upon arrival.

Just like this 3 piece kayak. Wouldn't be impossible to do with a sailboat.

image.png.37467da33a20ffbbf9802b4fef797ca3.png

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What sort of mindset does a person have to be in to buy a sailboat based on the box it'll fit in? Sure, it makes sense to have it delivered, brand new, out of the box (heh)... but from that point on, I can't see myself putting it back in the box.

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I retract that statement. This explains it:

The story behind my 39' container yacht is this:

I was approached by a long time client wo owns two other large boats, one is my design. He wanted a boat he could ship to any port in the world in a contgainer. His business background is in shipping and he knows that process extremely well.

- Bob Perry

There's gotta be some other global shipping mogul out there, thinking "I could make that work..."

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7 minutes ago, The Lucky One said:

I retract that statement. This explains it:

The story behind my 39' container yacht is this:

I was approached by a long time client wo owns two other large boats, one is my design. He wanted a boat he could ship to any port in the world in a contgainer. His business background is in shipping and he knows that process extremely well.

- Bob Perry

There's gotta be some other global shipping mogul out there, thinking "I could make that work..."

It seemed to me as the mast is deck stepped and short-ish, that the design would lend itself to a comination of canal and coastal sailing. The mast could be tabernackled I would think. 

 

 I'm surprised the idea didn't appeal to a few. Beyond the first build (of 2 maybe?), no more takers. 

 

Not for me. I'd rather bike or walk alongside canals and stay in (air)B&B's, eat in local restaurants, touring areas of Europe. A boat is too much baggage for the type of traveling I like to do even in a container. 

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It wouldn't be for me, either... I'm not the intended audience for that boat. Won't comment on the motorsailor bit, on account of owning a prominent 4ksb, but I've a sailboat more for the act of sailing and not for getting between point A and B, or experiencing what's on land 'tween those parts. I'm also not travelling between ports often. If I had the resources, I still wouldn't be. But someone in the shipping industry, who wanted to see different parts of the world from a boat... that's not a bad option.

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56 minutes ago, The Lucky One said:

I retract that statement. This explains it:

The story behind my 39' container yacht is this:

I was approached by a long time client wo owns two other large boats, one is my design. He wanted a boat he could ship to any port in the world in a contgainer. His business background is in shipping and he knows that process extremely well.

- Bob Perry

There's gotta be some other global shipping mogul out there, thinking "I could make that work..."

When it was first commissioned I don't believe the network of yacht shipping companies existed then, as they do now.  

What's the maximum you can trailer without a CDL?  There's something to be said for a boat you could sail on the Great Lakes or Chesapeake all summer then trailer down to Florida and do 6 weeks in The Keys or Bahamas if you don't have the time or inclination for the ICW.

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Not my cup of tea - but I think Bob did a very good job considering the constraints. A lot of people have moaned over the years that we all wish shipping containers were wider/taller.  Nobody could have conceived how important they would become. Maybe in 20 years we will start to switch to double wide/double height containers, the "8X" - that's 2x wider, 2x higher and 2x longer than the original 20' TEU. 

In the US trailer width limits beyond 8'-6" are set by states. If you get beyond 10' wide you usually need pilot cars. Up to 10' you'll need wide load permits which vary from state to state. For occasional moves (like moving a boat a long distance once) hiring a trucking company that does it all the time makes sense, because each state needs a permit.
 

Many of my more memorable projects have been when the client puts impossible constraints on you and have have to make it work.

"We want an emergency evacuation vessel in case of an oil well H2S blowout. For ~400 people"

     OK

"It has to be airtight"

      Well that's new.

"It has to run on stored power for 1/2 hour (this was pre-lithium batteries)"

"But it can't ingest outside air because the H2S gas will damage the diesels"

          Um, ok. We can use compressed air bottles for the engines.

"2 separate engine rooms"

          Deep sigh

"Diesel - electric"

         Whimper

"Icebreaking"

       Come on man!

"Super shallow draft"

         Well fuck me

"Z-drives"

       sure, totally suits the shallow draft

"Multiple airlocks"

       now you're just fucking with me

"With airlock purge facilities"

"Blast proof"

       might have told me earlier in the project....

"Separate O2 supplies for the passengers"

"Do you know how oxygen candles work"

       No but I can learn.....

"Did we mention room for the 6 stretcher cases"

        Fuck you 

"Oh, did we mention the pools of burning oil"

        Fuck fuck fuck

It was like a D&D game where every time you enter the next room, the monsters are getting worse.

Turned out OK. They built 4 of them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaking_Emergency_Evacuation_Vessel

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Not my cup of tea - but I think Bob did a very good job considering the constraints. A lot of people have moaned over the years that we all wish shipping containers were wider/taller.  Nobody could have conceived how important they would become. Maybe in 20 years we will start to switch to double wide/double height containers, the "8X" - that's 2x wider, 2x higher and 2x longer than the original 20' TEU. 

In the US trailer width limits beyond 8'-6" are set by states. If you get beyond 10' wide you usually need pilot cars. Up to 10' you'll need wide load permits which vary from state to state. For occasional moves (like moving a boat a long distance once) hiring a trucking company that does it all the time makes sense, because each state needs a permit.
 

Many of my more memorable projects have been when the client puts impossible constraints on you and have have to make it work.

"We want an emergency evacuation vessel in case of an oil well H2S blowout. For ~400 people"

     OK

"It has to be airtight"

      Well that's new.

"It has to run on stored power for 1/2 hour (this was pre-lithium batteries)"

"But it can't ingest outside air because the H2S gas will damage the diesels"

          Um, ok. We can use compressed air bottles for the engines.

"2 separate engine rooms"

          Deep sigh

"Diesel - electric"

         Whimper

"Icebreaking"

       Come on man!

"Super shallow draft"

         Well fuck me

"Z-drives"

       sure, totally suits the shallow draft

"Multiple airlocks"

       now you're just fucking with me

"With airlock purge facilities"

"Blast proof"

       might have told me earlier in the project....

"Separate O2 supplies for the passengers"

"Do you know how oxygen candles work"

       No but I can learn.....

"Did we mention room for the 6 stretcher cases"

        Fuck you 

"Oh, did we mention the pools of burning oil"

        Fuck fuck fuck

It was like a D&D game where every time you enter the next room, the monsters are getting worse.

Turned out OK. They built 4 of them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaking_Emergency_Evacuation_Vessel

 

 

 

 

Sounds like they need you on the Mars project…

The wiki link says there are ten of them now, did you get shafted for the design fees?

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36 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Maybe in 20 years we will start to switch to double wide/double height containers, the "8X" - that's 2x wider, 2x higher and 2x longer than the original 20' TEU. 

gunna take a tad longer than that to rebuilt the entire road network . :P

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5 hours ago, Zonker said:

Not my cup of tea - but I think Bob did a very good job considering the constraints. A lot of people have moaned over the years that we all wish shipping containers were wider/taller.  Nobody could have conceived how important they would become. Maybe in 20 years we will start to switch to double wide/double height containers, the "8X" - that's 2x wider, 2x higher and 2x longer than the original 20' TEU. 

In the US trailer width limits beyond 8'-6" are set by states. If you get beyond 10' wide you usually need pilot cars. Up to 10' you'll need wide load permits which vary from state to state. For occasional moves (like moving a boat a long distance once) hiring a trucking company that does it all the time makes sense, because each state needs a permit.
 

Many of my more memorable projects have been when the client puts impossible constraints on you and have have to make it work.

"We want an emergency evacuation vessel in case of an oil well H2S blowout. For ~400 people"

     OK

"It has to be airtight"

      Well that's new.

"It has to run on stored power for 1/2 hour (this was pre-lithium batteries)"

"But it can't ingest outside air because the H2S gas will damage the diesels"

          Um, ok. We can use compressed air bottles for the engines.

"2 separate engine rooms"

          Deep sigh

"Diesel - electric"

         Whimper

"Icebreaking"

       Come on man!

"Super shallow draft"

         Well fuck me

"Z-drives"

       sure, totally suits the shallow draft

"Multiple airlocks"

       now you're just fucking with me

"With airlock purge facilities"

"Blast proof"

       might have told me earlier in the project....

"Separate O2 supplies for the passengers"

"Do you know how oxygen candles work"

       No but I can learn.....

"Did we mention room for the 6 stretcher cases"

        Fuck you 

"Oh, did we mention the pools of burning oil"

        Fuck fuck fuck

It was like a D&D game where every time you enter the next room, the monsters are getting worse.

Turned out OK. They built 4 of them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaking_Emergency_Evacuation_Vessel

Sounds like a normal software development design spiral to me.

FKT

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10 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

It seemed to me as the mast is deck stepped and short-ish, that the design would lend itself to a comination of canal and coastal sailing. The mast could be tabernackled I would think. 

 

 I'm surprised the idea didn't appeal to a few. Beyond the first build (of 2 maybe?), no more takers. 

 

Not for me. I'd rather bike or walk alongside canals and stay in (air)B&B's, eat in local restaurants, touring areas of Europe. A boat is too much baggage for the type of traveling I like to do even in a container. 

Too much draft for a European canal. A version that could dry, do many canals (any except English narrow canals? ) even if you give away container travel would have merits IMHO. It basically is a stretched 30 footer in term of habitability so would be perfect for a couple to discover coastal and inland places.

Trouble is that the price tag isn't of a 30 footer... it would have to be in line with a pogo 30 or equivalent.

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10 hours ago, Zonker said:

Not my cup of tea - but I think Bob did a very good job considering the constraints. A lot of people have moaned over the years that we all wish shipping containers were wider/taller.  Nobody could have conceived how important they would become. Maybe in 20 years we will start to switch to double wide/double height containers, the "8X" - that's 2x wider, 2x higher and 2x longer than the original 20' TEU. 

In the US trailer width limits beyond 8'-6" are set by states. If you get beyond 10' wide you usually need pilot cars. Up to 10' you'll need wide load permits which vary from state to state. For occasional moves (like moving a boat a long distance once) hiring a trucking company that does it all the time makes sense, because each state needs a permit.
 

Many of my more memorable projects have been when the client puts impossible constraints on you and have have to make it work.

"We want an emergency evacuation vessel in case of an oil well H2S blowout. For ~400 people"

     OK

"It has to be airtight"

      Well that's new.

"It has to run on stored power for 1/2 hour (this was pre-lithium batteries)"

"But it can't ingest outside air because the H2S gas will damage the diesels"

          Um, ok. We can use compressed air bottles for the engines.

"2 separate engine rooms"

          Deep sigh

"Diesel - electric"

         Whimper

"Icebreaking"

       Come on man!

"Super shallow draft"

         Well fuck me

"Z-drives"

       sure, totally suits the shallow draft

"Multiple airlocks"

       now you're just fucking with me

"With airlock purge facilities"

"Blast proof"

       might have told me earlier in the project....

"Separate O2 supplies for the passengers"

"Do you know how oxygen candles work"

       No but I can learn.....

"Did we mention room for the 6 stretcher cases"

        Fuck you 

"Oh, did we mention the pools of burning oil"

        Fuck fuck fuck

It was like a D&D game where every time you enter the next room, the monsters are getting worse.

Turned out OK. They built 4 of them!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaking_Emergency_Evacuation_Vessel

 

That's all very well @Zonker, but I'm not a fan of the sheerline, and that particular shade of orange doesn't match the curtains I had picked out... ;)

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21 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

There is a Swede 55 for sale in the SA classifieds. The boat has a 9.7 beam and I am sure it can go just about anywhere.

Asking price is $65K and I doubt he will get $50K for it.

Looks like it is in decent condition.

Although you will not slide it into a container, I would take this and save an easy $100K.

 

Mightn't put me off, but if i were after a 55 (53)' cruiser, I'd wonder if a 23hp motor was up to the task...

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Trouble is that the price tag isn't of a 30 footer... it would have to be in line with a pogo 30 or equivalent.

The Pogo 30s that I have seen on Yachtworld have been asking €150,000 and more, which is about the sort of money as is being asked for this boat.

Of course, inferior 30-footers are available for less money

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8 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

Mightn't put me off, but if i were after a 55 (53)' cruiser, I'd wonder if a 23hp motor was up to the task...

The Swede 55 is a 7 tons boat so not a "proper 55 footer" and engine is probably OK as long as you sail the boat and use the engine as an auxiliary mean of propulsion.

2 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

The Pogo 30s that I have seen on Yachtworld have been asking €150,000 and more, which is about the sort of money as is being asked for this boat.

Of course, inferior 30-footers are available for less money

Good point but these Pogo 30 won't be 15 years old boats.

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2 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The Swede 55 is a 7 tons boat so not a "proper 55 footer" and engine is probably OK as long as you sail the boat and use the engine as an auxiliary mean of propulsion.

Good point but these Pogo 30 won't be 15 years old boats.

Exactly. And two of the three built have been for sale for ages. I bought a Pearson 424 ketch in pretty close to bristol condition for $78K. Went cruising for a couple of years and sold it for the same price.

So, if that boat is worth $78 and is over 2X the volume of Inbox, what's it really worth?

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15 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The Swede 55 is a 7 tons boat so not a "proper 55 footer" and engine is probably OK as long as you sail the boat and use the engine as an auxiliary mean of propulsion.

Pano, remember that a lot of the people we are talking to here sail on those large chunks of the American coast where wind is mostly a timid, unobtrusive visitor, unlike the in-yer-face strongman of our coasts.   Since few of them sail boats well-adapted to those light airs, they seem to me to use the engine as one of two primary modes of propulsion, rather than as an auxiliary.

15 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Good point but these Pogo 30 won't be 15 years old boats.

The oldest Pogo 30s are now 8 years old, so it's not that far off.  Plus the FH39 has a much more plush interior, so the price comparison doesn't seem to me to be misplaced.

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2 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Exactly. And two of the three built have been for sale for ages. I bought a Pearson 424 ketch in pretty close to bristol condition for $78K. Went cruising for a couple of years and sold it for the same price.

So, if that boat is worth $78 and is over 2X the volume of Inbox, what's it really worth?

They are such radically different types of boat that it's an apples-and-oranges comparison. Maybe not as extreme as price-comparing a J/88 with an old Valiant 40, but heading out in that direction.

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14 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Pano, remember that a lot of the people we are talking to here sail on those large chunks of the American coast where wind is mostly a timid, unobtrusive visitor, unlike the in-yer-face strongman of our coasts.   Since few of them sail boats well-adapted to those light airs, they seem to me to use the engine as one of two primary modes of propulsion, rather than as an auxiliary.

The oldest Pogo 30s are now 8 years old, so it's not that far off.  Plus the FH39 has a much more plush interior, so the price comparison doesn't seem to me to be misplaced.

I know its easily driven, but motoring my 3 ton 30'er into a strong headwind (we get those at 43 south) is tedious with 20hp... an extra 3hp for a 50+footer motoring into 35 knots... I know its a sailboat, and most likely I'd be sailing, but....

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Just now, TwoLegged said:

They are such radically different types of boat that it's an apples-and-oranges comparison. Maybe not as extreme as price-comparing a J/88 with an old Valiant 40, but heading out in that direction.

Not really, the U.S. sailboat market has been in a death spiral since the 1980's. Beneateau shut down it's Charleston factory and the Hunter, Catalina and other plants basically have nothing moving on the line.

You would think that used prices would go up as a result. They don't because young families are not entering the sport. They have so many other ways to spend their discretionary income.

Take a look at the latest demographic analysis of the sport. The average age of a recreational sailor today is in his/her late 50's! The median age, if provided, would pretty scary.

New adult sailors do not initially buy a boat to go racing. Yet US Sailing and the other organizations that we pay to belong to ignore that fact and continue to promote it as the end all, be all.

Furthermore, a very small group of professionals and their sugar daddy's have turned The Cup into a flying circus. The technology is interesting but what family is going to put their kids on something like this?

I am certainly not a tree hugger, but how do you re-purpose these things once something new comes along? The J's and 12 meters have made that transition, but anything since will go straight to the trash heap.

This sport has absolutely no chance of surviving in the long run unless something changes soon.

The only guy that figured this out early on was Roger MacGregor. He had the belief that you can sell a boat to the masses if it was on a trailer and cost about the same as a mid-size car. Yes, the two powersailers are abortions. But prior to that, he built a thousands of various designs. When he retired, the cost of the powersailer was about $26K.

And how much does a new Catalina 22 or 275 cost today? What average family has that kind of scratch? If MacGregor could build that boat in California at that price, one wonders why it hasn't been replicated.

Huh. I just hijacked my own thread.

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1 hour ago, ALL@SEA said:

I know its easily driven, but motoring my 3 ton 30'er into a strong headwind (we get those at 43 south) is tedious with 20hp... an extra 3hp for a 50+footer motoring into 35 knots... I know its a sailboat, and most likely I'd be sailing, but....

That's an example of what I mean about regarding the engine as a second means of primary propulsion, rather than as an auxiliary. :) 

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Exactly. And two of the three built have been for sale for ages. I bought a Pearson 424 ketch in pretty close to bristol condition for $78K. Went cruising for a couple of years and sold it for the same price.

So, if that boat is worth $78 and is over 2X the volume of Inbox, what's it really worth?

These Pearson look nice but these are 1960s/1970s style designs, it is a bit like comparing a F16 to a hobie cat 16, both are 16 feet catamarans but the latter one is an old design, enjoyable to sail but not with the same capabilities so much cheaper to buy.

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2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

The oldest Pogo 30s are now 8 years old, so it's not that far off.  Plus the FH39 has a much more plush interior, so the price comparison doesn't seem to me to be misplaced.

From 8 to 15 years IMO is still a difference but yes the 2 boats are presumably well built and deliver stuff that standard productions boats don't.

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7 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

These Pearson look nice but these are 1960s/1970s style designs, it is a bit like comparing a F16 to a hobie cat 16, both are 16 feet catamarans but the latter one is an old design, enjoyable to sail but not with the same capabilities so much cheaper to buy.

Nah, mine was built in 1983.

I am referring to the U.S. market. Most of the production cruisers here are simply a commodity. I.E.: Value increases or decreases based on demand.

There are more sellers than buyers and that isn't going to end. That is why people are not paying their slip fees and the marinas are either selling them for back rent or in a lot of cases, they are dragging them out of the water at a nearby ramp and torn apart by a front end loader and hauled to the trash heap in a dump truck.

As far as design? I'll take the classic look of the 424 over just about anything that is being built today.

As far as performance is concerned, neither are dragsters. But I would trust my life aboard the Pearson over the Pencil any day.

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19 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

From 8 to 15 years IMO is still a difference but yes the 2 boats are presumably well built and deliver stuff that standard productions boats don't.

Like what?

Both of the boats you are referring to are production boats. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

These Pearson look nice but these are 1960s/1970s style designs, it is a bit like comparing a F16 to a hobie cat 16, both are 16 feet catamarans but the latter one is an old design, enjoyable to sail but not with the same capabilities so much cheaper to buy.

Perhaps this is an example of the great new designs we are seeing in cruising boats?

 

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27 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

As far as design? I'll take the classic look of the 424 over just about anything that is being built today.

Pah.  I'll take a Pogo 12.50 over your old Pearson any day.  Or maybe a JPK 45.

And someone else will pah at the both of us, and point at an Outremer 45 or a Westsnail 42.  It's all tomaytoes/tomahtoes isn't it?

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Don't know if anyone here has tried to buy a boat lately, but demand and prices have gone up a lot - at least on boats that are in good shape and ready to go, helped a friend get one and settled for one that is structurally fine but severely neglected.  He had a contract on a Ben 36.7 that the seller pulled it from the broker and got an extra $5k for.  And at least in this part of the world every yard is full and waiting lists for anything to be done - the electronics guy said would put my friend on the board when he had a space.  Refinish teak? Months out for the good folks.  This is gulf coast but the boat search was nationwide.

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5 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Pah.  I'll take a Pogo 12.50 over your old Pearson any day.  Or maybe a JPK 45.

And someone else will pah at the both of us, and point at an Outremer 45 or a Westsnail 42.  It's all tomaytoes/tomahtoes isn't it?

Yup.

My original point was simply that a 15 year old Far Harbor 39 (Inbox) is not worth $160K versus what you can buy in the U.S. for half or less than that amount. The fact that you can slide one into a container is irrelevant as no one bought one for that purpose.

Unless you have money to burn on a cruising boat, you have to be nuts to buy something. And that is not happening here at least.

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Huh. I just hijacked my own thread.

And it was a good hijack, OWS.  We'll halve your sentence, down to only 20 years on the chain gang. ;) 

Seriously, tho, you are completely right about the folly of youth sailing that is designed primarily to act as a feeder for elite competitions.  By definition that sort of system discards will over 905 of its entrants.

Kids need some racing experience, but mostly to learn better boat-handling skills.  Start lines teach you a lot about close-quarters manoeuvring, and driving the boat competitively in a blow is invaluable learning about how a boat behaves when pushed to the limits.  But what kids really need to learn is seamanship, and a racing-only program doesn't help.

Worst of all, the training programs have been infested by single-handed boats: Toppers, Lasers, and the accursed Optimist.  Those boats kill the socialisation, and spoil the fun.    Apart from anything else, it's very to effectively attack another boat when you're solo .. whereas with a two-person boat the crew can jump across, capsize the other boat, and jump back onto their own craft.

 

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5 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

The fact that you can slide one into a container is irrelevant as no one bought one for that purpose.

That's what it was designed for, so it's still relevant.  If the container is no part of your agenda, then it's a poor choice of boat at almost any price ... whereas if you want to container-ship it, there's nothing else out there.

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8 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Don't know if anyone here has tried to buy a boat lately, but demand and prices have gone up a lot - at least on boats that are in good shape and ready to go, helped a friend get one and settled for one that is structurally fine but severely neglected.  He had a contract on a Ben 36.7 that the seller pulled it from the broker and got an extra $5k for.  And at least in this part of the world every yard is full and waiting lists for anything to be done - the electronics guy said would put my friend on the board when he had a space.  Refinish teak? Months out for the good folks.  This is gulf coast but the boat search was nationwide.

Ranger, I am talking about production cruising boats. The 36.7 is a different breed. 

I have no doubt there are certain niches/pockets that remain relatively stable. They are usually on the performance side.

There is a backlog in the yards. But that is due to Covid and the fact not many of us did much of anything over the past 18 months. There was a period of time in Florida you could not even get into a marina. Locked down. 

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2 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

That's what it was designed for, so it's still relevant.  If the container is no part of your agenda, then it's a poor choice of boat at almost any price ... whereas if you want to container-ship it, there's nothing else out there.

Sorry to disagree, mate.

It isn't relevant as they only built three boats. One for the owner and two others. Consequently, they went out of business.

Just goes to show that perception is not reality.

 

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

As far as design? I'll take the classic look of the 424 over just about anything that is being built today.

As far as performance is concerned, neither are dragsters. But I would trust my life aboard the Pearson over the Pencil any day.

You are free to like a "good looking" boat but the Pencil has a much more modern hull shape with an efficient fin and more waterline so ti should do an horizon job to the Pearson. Heavily ballasted narrow boats tend to be seaworthy boats.

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16 hours ago, olaf hart said:

The wiki link says there are ten of them now, did you get shafted for the design fees?

Thanks. I'll have to check - it was for an oil company so they may have bought the IP outright.

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:
2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

That's what it was designed for, so it's still relevant.  If the container is no part of your agenda, then it's a poor choice of boat at almost any price ... whereas if you want to container-ship it, there's nothing else out there.

Sorry to disagree, mate.

It isn't relevant as they only built three boats. One for the owner and two others. Consequently, they went out of business.

Just goes to show that perception is not reality.

Of course it's relevant.  Product make for a very narrow market may not sell ... but whether it sells one unit or a million doesn't alter it suitability for the designed use.  

Low sales may be a sign that the designed use is rare or non-existent, or they may indicate that the product is priced wrongly, or many other factors. But they don't alter the fact it was designed for a particular task, and made a lot sacrifices to allow that.

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8 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

Mightn't put me off, but if i were after a 55 (53)' cruiser, I'd wonder if a 23hp motor was up to the task...

23hp was up to the task. Pushed it at 8 knots in flat water, and 6 in big waves. I had an alternator regulator with two switches that could either reduce power output of the alt by 50%, or zero the output to minimize parasitic losses if you needed the full hp. I never did. I also always sailed places as it sailed so well!

 

 

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7 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Don't know if anyone here has tried to buy a boat lately, but demand and prices have gone up a lot - at least on boats that are in good shape and ready to go, helped a friend get one and settled for one that is structurally fine but severely neglected.  He had a contract on a Ben 36.7 that the seller pulled it from the broker and got an extra $5k for.  And at least in this part of the world every yard is full and waiting lists for anything to be done - the electronics guy said would put my friend on the board when he had a space.  Refinish teak? Months out for the good folks.  This is gulf coast but the boat search was nationwide.

Its used anything right now. 
In the UK used cars are up, especially classics. My cousin was called by BMW offering to pay her £5k more for her car then she'd bought it for just 6 months ago (the only catch presumably being that everything to replace it is more expensive). 
Possibly more disposable income for people who haven't been out during Covid. 

A lot more people out on the water as well, we couldn't get into Southwold the other week when heading back North on a delivery, same for Wells. Full of oversized white motorboats. Again, think people have no choice but to spend their time & money in the home country. 

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15 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Of course it's relevant.  Product make for a very narrow market may not sell ... but whether it sells one unit or a million doesn't alter it suitability for the designed use.  

Low sales may be a sign that the designed use is rare or non-existent, or they may indicate that the product is priced wrongly, or many other factors. But they don't alter the fact it was designed for a particular task, and made a lot sacrifices to allow that.

Mate, you may want to re-read your own post.

Your second paragraph pretty much defines the word irrelevant.

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5 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Mate, you may want to re-read your own post.

Your second paragraph pretty much defines the word irrelevant.

On the contrary, I think you miss my point, and that we're going to have to agree to disagree.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/16/2021 at 1:39 PM, Slowboat said:

23hp was up to the task. Pushed it at 8 knots in flat water, and 6 in big waves. I had an alternator regulator with two switches that could either reduce power output of the alt by 50%, or zero the output to minimize parasitic losses if you needed the full hp. I never did. I also always sailed places as it sailed so well!

 

 

She will also motorsail very well, when we had ours we hardly ever motored without hoisting the mainsail. We pretty much do the same thing on the larger version we had built. These narrow vessels motorsail very nicely and the additional stability gained makes for a nice ride. Usually adds another knot to the speed too. (Our current larger version has 39 HP and will motor into double digits, light and narrow requires less HP)

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Just now, kimbottles said:

She will also motorsail very well, when we had ours we hardly ever motored without hoisting the mainsail. We pretty much do the same thing on the larger version we had built. These narrow vessels motorsail very nicely and the additional stability gained makes for a nice ride. Usually adds another knot to the speed too. (Our current larger version has 39 HP and will motor into double digits, light and narrow requires less HP)

Yes, these boats simply slide through the water with very little fuss.

I've been moored next to Steve White's Vortex in Center Harbor for the past couple of years, and race against him regularly. He's very tough, no one has won more wooden boat races in Maine than Vortex. A damn sexy boat.

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2 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Yes, these boats simply slide through the water with very little fuss.

I've been moored next to Steve White's Vortex in Center Harbor for the past couple of years, and race against him regularly. He's very tough, no one has won more wooden boat races in Maine than Vortex. A damn sexy boat.

You of course know that I love skinny boats CL. I have to give up interior space, but that is a trade off that works OK for us. Narrow boats sure slip through the water with limited fuss….Good luck with the racing in Maine this year.

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