Jump to content

Sport boats easy to single-hand and will accommodate 5 for daysails


Recommended Posts

Hey Everybody, first post and new to the SA forums.  In the market for a possible unicorn here and looking for input so I don't miss any great options.

In short, is there a boat out there I can plane solo...and will daysail comfortably with 5 people?

Looking for a trailer-able sporty keelboat (~18-24' range) I can manage setting up on my own yet will accommodate my family of five for some lake and coastal daysailing.  I started looking at the Melges 24 and J/70 by a friend's recommendation.  As far as I can tell, those boats can be single-handed for sure, but probably not without significant performance limitations (and probably not fun to rig alone). I've also looked at First/Seascape 18/24, just don't know much about them.

I'm thinking the 18-20' range might let me get my kicks single-handing...however not sure how comfortable they are with 5 or 6 people on board.

Thanks in advance for the input.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you remove the keelboat requirement, I'd say a Corsair Sprint 750 ticks all the boxes and it will plane upwind as well as downwind.

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Seascape/First 24 is what you want for sure. If you really want the cruisability, you're even better stepping up to the 27 that I have. The added space, berth areas, head, and freshwater shower make a big difference. Only question that really comes next is how much you're willing to spend. Melges 24s and J/70s are in a totally different price bracket than the Seascapes. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jcf1093 said:

Seascape/First 24 is what you want for sure. If you really want the cruisability, you're even better stepping up to the 27 that I have. The added space, berth areas, head, and freshwater shower make a big difference. Only question that really comes next is how much you're willing to spend. Melges 24s and J/70s are in a totally different price bracket than the Seascapes. 

You can get a nice Melges 24 for $15k.  J70 not so much. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at an Ultimate 20 or Ultimate 24.  Better accommodations, easy to trailer, and certainly the 20 has a large fleet.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gbkersey said:

If you remove the keelboat requirement, I'd say a Corsair Sprint 750 ticks all the boxes and it will plane upwind as well as downwind.

 

100%.  Perfect for your mission.  Had an F-27 for 13 or 14 years and used it for daysailing 90% of the time, solo or with crew.  Fun, fun boat.  Regret selling it.

Or look at Patmos thread in multihull anarchy on his Maine Sail 21 (Newick cat) "I want to go fast and party too".

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, apophenia said:

A J/80, or the new J/9 would probably be a better casual daysailor than the J/70. Both have huge cockpits like the Seascapes.

Can get a Seascape 27 for same money as a J9 and it will actually plane.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

Can get a Seascape 27 for same money as a J9 and it will actually plane.

Don't underestimate the J/9 - it's displacement:length ratio is 115, and SA:D is 27. The Seascape is lighter and more powerful, and the bendy carbon SE rig might depower more easily. Both boats are worth considering if you are willing to spend low six figures on a daysailor. And probably used Alerions as well. But all of these boats (except the SS/First 24) are above the specified length of 18-24'. And the Alerion is probably not much fun to trailer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No one mentions it, but a J22 will easily plane, maybe not in the unlimited hydroplane class, but she will move out.  With the class jib its not that hard to tack and even under main alone she moves pretty good.  Plus its easy to get five on her, since we did it easily in our Santana 20.  (Once had nine aboard but it was stacked pretty tight and while the boat handled it, it wasn’t much fun for the helmsman which would be me). 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Santana20AE said:

No one mentions it, but a J22 will easily plane, maybe not in the unlimited hydroplane class, but she will move out.  With the class jib its not that hard to tack and even under main alone she moves pretty good.  Plus its easy to get five on her, since we did it easily in our Santana 20.  (Once had nine aboard but it was stacked pretty tight and while the boat handled it, it wasn’t much fun for the helmsman which would be me). 

Also lots of used boats available.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had my Seascape 24 for 3 years now and really love it.  It is certainly not as sporty as a Melges 24 or J70, but it is a really comfortable, stable and easy to sail boat.  It is in and out of the water easily and not really that difficult to raise or lower the mast by yourself if you have the A frame hoist.  It's certainly more expensive than some of the other options others have listed, but I don't regret the purchase at all.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it is 2' longer than the OP's desired size range, but how about the Colgate 26? Easy to rig and launch, massive cockpit, stiff but also forgiving to sail, I don't know about planing, but it's no slouch, heck it's a training boat!! Also well built (from what I understand).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have moved from a J70 to a First 27.  (Seascape 27  with aluminium rig and diesel) The J70 is  a great boat but not great for shorthanded sailing in my opinion. Mainsail hoist and drop usually  requires climbing out of the cockpit well away from the tiller if something goes wrong and with no forward lifelines not much to protect you if you have to go forward and so not an option for family lounging in front of the mast .  Tiller of the J70 is very responsive but will not hold a  course if you have to let go. Hull shape means that you need weight to shift around to get the best out of it. My first impressions of the First 27 are very good  both for sailing and usability wise . (Take a look at "No frills sailing" website  if you are interested in reading how a new owner is getting on with a Seascape/First 27 SE). I haven't seen or sailed the Seascape/First 24 but given that it has the same characteristics and DNA as the 27 and probably more convenient to trailer than the 27 that might well  be a very good choice  for you.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Editor said:

Seascape sounds like it might fit the bill.

There's an 18 sitting here in Charleston on a trailer with the rig up for sale by St. Barts.  It definitely looks like it could fit the bill. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is a total failure of traditional values.  Seriously.  Every person posting in here should be ashamed.  An offering of girlfriend funbits is required.  J22 would fit the bill, but it'd be nicer to have a lifting keel for launching in a variety of locations I'd imagine.  Ultimate 20 maybe?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would have been a "sport boat" in the 80's, but a C&C 27 mk V.

otherwise a J80 or J22 can easily be singlehanded or take 5 or more out for a sail. 

I'm assuming when you mean single-hand, you aren't talking about drysailing the boat single-handed.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, WCB said:

You can get a nice Melges 24 for $15k.  J70 not so much. 

Good luck with that, the occasional $15k Melges' have long since been swept up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As mentioned by #13 above, the U20 is a great choice.  It's a little crowded for 5, but workable. Easier to single hand than the larger boats mentioned.  I used to drysail it with a hoist. Launching from the hoist single handed wasn't a problem.  In terms of planing, if you can work out the logistics, you can fly the chute and hum along with only yourself on board. I've had it planing with 4 guys ~750 lbs total plus a good amount of unnecessary weight inside the boat.  You should be able to have some fun with 5.  At last check, there were 3 for sale on the u20 class site. https://u20class.org/Forum/index.php  There's also a good fleet in North Carolina and plenty of help available from those in the class.

You can search these forums about single handing a Melges 24 or similar.  Most of the feedback will be that it's a little too aggressive for that, but some will tell you it's not a problem or to add reef points and/or cut down the sails. You can read the posts and see which ones you're more inclined to believe or are applicable to your capabilities.

As you suggest, a sportboat that can range from 1 to 6 crew is a bit of unicorn, but you can get close with U20, the Seascape and other suggestions above.

Link to post
Share on other sites

U/20 or U/24 are great choices.  So's a J/80. Big open cockpits and easily managed shorthanded, brisk but stable.  A J/70 wouldn't be bad but it's not a huge boat, getting crowded with 5.  


A Melges 24 really isn't a good shorthanding choice for a lot of reasons. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ultimate 24 for sale in the classifieds right now would be a great boat. Easily trailerable, lifting keel, fast, can fit 5. 

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/ultimate-24-hull-4/

I have some time on all three sized seascapes. The 18 is a really fun boat to sail, but 5 people is probably going to be very crowded. The 24 is my favorite of all 3 and definitely 'sportier' than the 27. It would easily fit 5 and has a nice interior. The 27 is a bit outside of your original size range and is more of a full fledged boat than a 'day sailor' or 'sport boat'. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pudge said:

Good luck with that, the occasional $15k Melges' have long since been swept up. 

Not entirely but it's true, almost...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

U/20 or U/24 are great choices.  So's a J/80. Big open cockpits and easily managed shorthanded, brisk but stable.  A J/70 wouldn't be bad but it's not a huge boat, getting crowded with 5.  


A Melges 24 really isn't a good shorthanding choice for a lot of reasons. 
 

What are your reasons on the M24?  I'm genuinely curious as I know a couple who are considering one.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Aquila11 said:

The ultimate 24 for sale in the classifieds right now would be a great boat. Easily trailerable, lifting keel, fast, can fit 5. 

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/ultimate-24-hull-4/

I have some time on all three sized seascapes. The 18 is a really fun boat to sail, but 5 people is probably going to be very crowded. The 24 is my favorite of all 3 and definitely 'sportier' than the 27. It would easily fit 5 and has a nice interior. The 27 is a bit outside of your original size range and is more of a full fledged boat than a 'day sailor' or 'sport boat'. 

Save yourself some time. The U24 is apparently already spoken for. The good looking girls get picked up quickly.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, pudge said:

*The easy ones to find at least...

It is surprisingly hard to find used boats.  There was a flurry of boats for a while but now there's next to none.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang, you all did not disappoint in coming through with an abundance of options.  Thanks to everyone for your responses so far!

To clarify/re-emphasize a couple criteria:

1) easily trailerable and shallow water launchable, so a lifting or swing keel is a non-negotiable

2) I need to be able to step the mast and rig alone, so I question whether some of the bigger boats mentioned fit that criteria

3) Ideally, I stay below $25k - I know I might be really hamstringing myself here, but I'm in no hurry and can wait for the right boat (but sounds like the good ones that meet all those criteria will get snatched up quickly)

On 6/16/2021 at 2:32 PM, gbkersey said:

If you remove the keelboat requirement, I'd say a Corsair Sprint 750 ticks all the boxes

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

On 6/16/2021 at 3:50 PM, apophenia said:

J/80, or the new J/9 would probably be a better casual daysailor than the J/70

I like the J/80 and J/9...both out of my size and price range (I'm fond of the J boats having sailed many offshore miles on a J/42)

On 6/16/2021 at 2:31 PM, Timur said:

if you're into retro the Moore 24 ticks those boxes

I'll take a closer look

On 6/16/2021 at 4:14 PM, #13 said:

Look at an Ultimate 20 or Ultimate 24

those were not on my radar, will definitely take a look

7 hours ago, RobbieB said:

There's an 18 sitting here in Charleston on a trailer with the rig up

cool, how crowded will that cockpit get with a crew of 5?

17 hours ago, pvpaisano said:

I've had my Seascape 24 for 3 years now and really love it

where in NC do you sail that? I'd be interested in a first hand look at that boat if possible

2 hours ago, Matagi said:

Esse 750 or Esse 850

another one not on my radar, but will take a look

@Qingdaosog and @PurpleOnion thanks for your input!

7 hours ago, Grrr... said:

This thread is a total failure of traditional values.

I gotta admit, I was expecting a little more 'first post'/newbie hazing

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WCB said:

What are your reasons on the M24?  I'm genuinely curious as I know a couple who are considering one.  

It's got a lot of sail for a very light boat.  I have competed against them in PHRF and knew an owner who said the boat likes five stout fellows on board with most of them hiking if it's over 7-8 kts.  That doesn't mean it would be a rocketship solo in 15 kts due to the light weight of a singlehander.  It means you'd spend a great deal of time on your ear very near the water, and if it is blowing and you're heading upwind with four friends, your friends aren't going to be in the cockpit anyhow.  

Those are my reasons.  Google it on SA.  The question comes up from time to time.  M24 owners are pretty clear on this. I'm just a guy who used to sail next to one and drink with the driver a bit.  Strikes me as trying to commute in an F1 car. It's possible on some level, of course... I'd probably get a Dodge Charger or BMW M series instead though if I wanted an exciting ride, and a couple of not-unhappy passengers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll throw in the Melges 20.  Would be tight with 5, but doable.  easy to single-hand - not as powered up as the M24, but does need weight when the wind picks up, just not hiking.  you might be able to do the mast alone, better with a friend.

 

one more question - does it need to be a keelboat?  some of the larger dinghies (lightning, flying scot, etc) can be singlehanded, trailered, hold lots of people, and raising the mast alone is possible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@TradeWind If you like the Moore 24 or Ultimate 20/24, add the Olson 25 to your list. It will definitely surf/plane, and has a cockpit that you can sit in or on. Prices are usually in the $10k range. Pacific built boats are preferred for racing, but the Ericson boats are solid glass with no core to worry about. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tradewinds said:

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

If you sail one, you won't go back to sinkers....

202634105_10158279317524632_3105160056167545283_n.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2021 at 12:20 PM, tradewinds said:

Hey Everybody, first post and new to the SA forums.  In the market for a possible unicorn here and looking for input so I don't miss any great options.

In short, is there a boat out there I can plane solo...and will daysail comfortably with 5 people?

Looking for a trailer-able sporty keelboat (~18-24' range) I can manage setting up on my own yet will accommodate my family of five for some lake and coastal daysailing.  I started looking at the Melges 24 and J/70 by a friend's recommendation.  As far as I can tell, those boats can be single-handed for sure, but probably not without significant performance limitations (and probably not fun to rig alone). I've also looked at First/Seascape 18/24, just don't know much about them.

I'm thinking the 18-20' range might let me get my kicks single-handing...however not sure how comfortable they are with 5 or 6 people on board.

Thanks in advance for the input.

 

Corsair F27.  You can thank me later.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tradewinds said:

Dang, you all did not disappoint in coming through with an abundance of options.  Thanks to everyone for your responses so far!

To clarify/re-emphasize a couple criteria:

1) easily trailerable and shallow water launchable, so a lifting or swing keel is a non-negotiable

2) I need to be able to step the mast and rig alone, so I question whether some of the bigger boats mentioned fit that criteria

3) Ideally, I stay below $25k - I know I might be really hamstringing myself here, but I'm in no hurry and can wait for the right boat (but sounds like the good ones that meet all those criteria will get snatched up quickly)

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

I like the J/80 and J/9...both out of my size and price range (I'm fond of the J boats having sailed many offshore miles on a J/42)

I'll take a closer look

those were not on my radar, will definitely take a look

cool, how crowded will that cockpit get with a crew of 5?

where in NC do you sail that? I'd be interested in a first hand look at that boat if possible

another one not on my radar, but will take a look

@Qingdaosog and @PurpleOnion thanks for your input!

I gotta admit, I was expecting a little more 'first post'/newbie hazing

If you need to be able to step the mast alone, skip the M24 and go with an Ultimate 20.  Much easier to get the smaller mast up solo.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

It's got a lot of sail for a very light boat.  I have competed against them in PHRF and knew an owner who said the boat likes five stout fellows on board with most of them hiking if it's over 7-8 kts.  That doesn't mean it would be a rocketship solo in 15 kts due to the light weight of a singlehander.  It means you'd spend a great deal of time on your ear very near the water, and if it is blowing and you're heading upwind with four friends, your friends aren't going to be in the cockpit anyhow.  

Those are my reasons.  Google it on SA.  The question comes up from time to time.  M24 owners are pretty clear on this. I'm just a guy who used to sail next to one and drink with the driver a bit.  Strikes me as trying to commute in an F1 car. It's possible on some level, of course... I'd probably get a Dodge Charger or BMW M series instead though if I wanted an exciting ride, and a couple of not-unhappy passengers. 

I don't need to google...I own a Melges 24.  I was curious to hear what your thinking was.  More interesting since you have never sailed one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Moore Play said:

I know it is 2' longer than the OP's desired size range, but how about the Colgate 26? Easy to rig and launch, massive cockpit, stiff but also forgiving to sail, I don't know about planing, but it's no slouch, heck it's a training boat!! Also well built (from what I understand).

Only way a Colgate 26 exceeds hull speed off the trailer involves a waterfall.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Only way a Colgate 26 exceeds hull speed off the trailer involves a waterfall.

What if it's being towed by a J105?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tradewinds said:

Dang, you all did not disappoint in coming through with an abundance of options.  Thanks to everyone for your responses so far!

To clarify/re-emphasize a couple criteria:

1) easily trailerable and shallow water launchable, so a lifting or swing keel is a non-negotiable

2) I need to be able to step the mast and rig alone, so I question whether some of the bigger boats mentioned fit that criteria

3) Ideally, I stay below $25k - I know I might be really hamstringing myself here, but I'm in no hurry and can wait for the right boat (but sounds like the good ones that meet all those criteria will get snatched up quickly)

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

I like the J/80 and J/9...both out of my size and price range (I'm fond of the J boats having sailed many offshore miles on a J/42)

I'll take a closer look

those were not on my radar, will definitely take a look

cool, how crowded will that cockpit get with a crew of 5?

where in NC do you sail that? I'd be interested in a first hand look at that boat if possible

another one not on my radar, but will take a look

@Qingdaosog and @PurpleOnion thanks for your input!

I gotta admit, I was expecting a little more 'first post'/newbie hazing

By the way, if you're interested in a Melges 20, I have one.  It's been very lightly used so I may be willing to sell.  It's in Cape Cod right now and I am planning to send it to Charleston in a few weeks.  I just spent a little money on it to get a few of the more recent go-fast goodies on it like the spinnaker sock.  It's on its way to Miami ultimately to be made available as a charter boat for the event in November and the Worlds in December.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tradewinds said:

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

That's too bad because it nails all of your requirements pretty much perfectly!
The nets are hard to beat for family/guests to hang out on, easy to trailer/setup, floats in a foot of water, will do double digit speeds upwind singlehanded and mid-teens with no drama and you should be able to find within your budget.


Planing sports boat won't be much fun going back upwind (after you've had your nice downwind run) without crew in conditions where you can get on the plane...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, crashtack said:

Are there any significant differences between the seascape 27 and the beneteau version?

The  Beneteau First 27 SE  is the original Seascape 27. The Beneteau First 27 has the same hull and basic internal. layout but has a fixed keel, aluminum mast and boom,  diesel inboard engine, cockpit lockers, galley option instead of the sail locker, and mainsheet control aft of the boom . Pinhead sail not square head. Basically designed to be a bit more user friendly (idiot proof)  as a coastal cruiser. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, sounds like you should steer clear of Esse boats entirely.  They mention the FarEast 23R in there...might be another good option.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2021 at 2:32 PM, gbkersey said:

If you remove the keelboat requirement, I'd say a Corsair Sprint 750 ticks all the boxes and it will plane upwind as well as downwind.

 

Right on!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well - if you don’t need a cabin, a VX One may fit the bill.  It is extremely economical to own and fun to sail compared with the C/R proposed.

Fx I store mine ashore on a trolley among beachcats and dinghies, and just bought a new main on sale at 500 USD!!!!! 

....it will take 5 reasonable athletic people for a few hours daysail, but does of course not give toilet facilities etc

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2021 at 11:32 AM, gbkersey said:

If you remove the keelboat requirement, I'd say a Corsair Sprint 750 ticks all the boxes and it will plane upwind as well as downwind.

 

8 hours ago, tradewinds said:

I admit I have an (unfounded) psychological barrier to overcome before looking at multi-hulls right now, it's not logical, I know

Yeah sailing 10+ knots upwind and 15+ knots downwind single or double-handed totally sucks!!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, orca99 said:

Well - if you don’t need a cabin, a VX One may fit the bill.  It is extremely economical to own and fun to sail compared with the C/R proposed.

Fx I store mine ashore on a trolley among beachcats and dinghies, and just bought a new main on sale at 500 USD!!!!! 

....it will take 5 reasonable athletic people for a few hours daysail, but does of course not give toilet facilities etc

And the race crew is 2 or 3. 

While you can ramp launch, you will need to tie alongside a dock to get the keel down, or the main up by yourself. The mast can be lifted vertically by one person, but it is helpful to have a second person to help get the mast into the vertical position and attach 2-3 stays. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, tradewinds said:

cool, how crowded will that cockpit get with a crew of 5?

 

That was one of the things that impressed me. Big roomy cockpit for 5. Actually looks like it is sailed w/everyone in the cockpit and no rail meat.  The doghouse is raised so there is definitely room down below. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

It's got a lot of sail for a very light boat.  I have competed against them in PHRF and knew an owner who said the boat likes five stout fellows on board with most of them hiking if it's over 7-8 kts.  That doesn't mean it would be a rocketship solo in 15 kts due to the light weight of a singlehander.  It means you'd spend a great deal of time on your ear very near the water, and if it is blowing and you're heading upwind with four friends, your friends aren't going to be in the cockpit anyhow.  

You can always just get a mainsail with reefing points if you feel overpowered. I used to solo my Elliott 770 with a giant square top and auto tiller all the time. 

Also if you Google shorthanding the Melges 24 you will see that Oakcliff made a bid to make it the doublehander for the olympics and sailed them offshore with only 2 fairly junior lightweight sailors.  

 

image.png.0aa180ac45702af4f29d33893041cb02.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, KC64000 said:

one more question - does it need to be a keelboat?  some of the larger dinghies (lightning, flying scot, etc) can be singlehanded, trailered, hold lots of people, and raising the mast alone is possible.

I agree raising the mast solo on a small keelboat and trailer launching every time you go sailing sounds like alot of work.

OP How often are you actually planning to take the family out? If it's only a few times a year why compromise on something that's no fun to solo if that will be your primary use?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, swangtang said:

How often are you actually planning to take the family out? If it's only a few times a year why compromise on something that's no fun to solo if that will be your primary use?

I expect usage to be roughly as follows 40% solo/40% me + 1 or 2/ 20% me + wife + 3 (small) kids (ages 5-8 right now)

I am leaning hard toward the 18-20' range (First/SE 18; Melges 20; U20, etc.) for a couple reasons.  solo launch and rigging for one. My kids are young right now, so when all 5 of us are on board, it won't be terribly crowded.  Plan to use for a couple years and then size-up to something bigger.  this will be first sailboat we will have owned so I don't mind starting on the small end and growing into larger boats. (may even keep the smaller boat if the kids enjoy it as they get older) Family daysails will be limited enough (or close enough to facilities) that cabin space is not critical.

Coastal trips will primarily be to family home, so shallow water berth necessitates the lifting/swing keel, as well as beam limits which disqualify the multi-hulls.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2021 at 1:14 PM, #13 said:

Look at an Ultimate 20 or Ultimate 24.  Better accommodations, easy to trailer, and certainly the 20 has a large fleet.

4 up will be fine, with five, maybe (as in where do you put the 5th- in or on top of the cabin?).  Neat boat.  Still miss ours.  (How may boats can you have?)  You can get one new, supposedly, at Schock.  Easy to single hand, planes readily (seemed like all the time) with white sails.  For a little boat good upwind in a chop.  Get in touch with the class.  Seemed like a bigger boat, and sailed ok with main only.  If the wind is up around 35k you might be able to plane downwind with jib only.  Which was peaceful and fast at the same time.  Wife thought the cockpit, seats or floor were comfy.  We didn’t have a compass on the cabin. 
 

Rugged little beast.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, tradewinds said:

I expect usage to be roughly as follows 40% solo/40% me + 1 or 2/ 20% me + wife + 3 (small) kids (ages 5-8 right now)

I am leaning hard toward the 18-20' range (First/SE 18; Melges 20; U20, etc.) for a couple reasons.  solo launch and rigging for one. My kids are young right now, so when all 5 of us are on board, it won't be terribly crowded.  Plan to use for a couple years and then size-up to something bigger.  this will be first sailboat we will have owned so I don't mind starting on the small end and growing into larger boats. (may even keep the smaller boat if the kids enjoy it as they get older) Family daysails will be limited enough (or close enough to facilities) that cabin space is not critical.

You can raise the mast on a U20 by yourself.  I never had a problem doing it.  I've never had the patience to watch the video below, but somebody in the class has a system for it. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2021 at 12:24 PM, swangtang said:

Where's the I550 crowd at these days? Surprised they're not all over this thread. 

We're watching. On occasion one does come up for sale. Near as we can figure there are about (conservatively) way more than 100 completed and sailing. Two contacts  this last Spring are interested in putting together group builds or finishing ready to go hulls adding masts and all the other stuff. Currently I am working up a keel/bulb FRP shell so lead shot can be added to overcome pouring a bulb. CST and C-tech masts have been good for us too. But the i550 might be a bit tight for a family of five. Dad, Mom and two kids are a good compliment. 

On another note I have some Rhino Files that need a Keel and Rudder added to them so the ORC will condescend to rating a boat built in France by a nice guy but we can't get any love for him. Can anyone help?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/18/2021 at 8:40 AM, pudge said:

You can always just get a mainsail with reefing points if you feel overpowered. I used to solo my Elliott 770 with a giant square top and auto tiller all the time. 

Also if you Google shorthanding the Melges 24 you will see that Oakcliff made a bid to make it the doublehander for the olympics and sailed them offshore with only 2 fairly junior lightweight sailors.  

 

image.png.0aa180ac45702af4f29d33893041cb02.png

I stand corrected.  The Melges 24 is an ideal shorthanded offshore boat and wonderful for double handing with light sailors. /sarc

BTW, I raced on an Elliot 770 for a couple years and I agree that boat would be ideal for what the OP wants, particularly family day sailing with kids in a sporty boat, except the price is a probably little higher than OP wants to spend and they're sometimes hard to find.  Great boat, the cabin's suitable for kids and the deck is uncluttered, good places to sit and lay about.  A lot of weather helm in anything over 15 kts tho, liked 4+ guys on the rail in a breeze or it wouldn't sail to rating upwind and would  still get waterlined to death by all the longer boats in the same PHRF band - stuck racing against J/105s for instance in PHRF A2.  Sure was a winner in any race that turned into a sledride though... could go 11-12 in a big breeze all day effortlessly, with some ridiculously high shorter planing stints.  My sarcasm aside, the 770 weighs 33%  more than the Melges 24, has the same ballast and about 70% of the SA/D of the Melges 24, it's almost a different type of boat IMAO.  The 770 was actually pretty happy shorthanded and fine with 4 crew in about 75% of our normal late spring through early fall conditions.  But we may have raced with 3 a couple times in drifters where the Elliot was a lot stickier than the Melges and some other light air weapons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lex Teredo said:

I stand corrected.  The Melges 24 is an ideal shorthanded offshore boat and wonderful for double handing with light sailors. /sarc

BTW, I raced on an Elliot 770 for a couple years and I agree that boat would be ideal for what the OP wants, particularly family day sailing with kids in a sporty boat, except the price is a probably little higher than OP wants to spend and they're sometimes hard to find.  Great boat, the cabin's suitable for kids and the deck is uncluttered, good places to sit and lay about.  A lot of weather helm in anything over 15 kts tho, liked 4+ guys on the rail in a breeze or it wouldn't sail to rating upwind and would  still get waterlined to death by all the longer boats in the same PHRF band - stuck racing against J/105s for instance in PHRF A2.  Sure was a winner in any race that turned into a sledride though... could go 11-12 in a big breeze all day effortlessly, with some ridiculously high shorter planing stints.  My sarcasm aside, the 770 weighs 33%  more than the Melges 24, has the same ballast and about 70% of the SA/D of the Melges 24, it's almost a different type of boat IMAO.  The 770 was actually pretty happy shorthanded and fine with 4 crew in about 75% of our normal late spring through early fall conditions.  But we may have raced with 3 a couple times in drifters where the Elliot was a lot stickier than the Melges and some other light air weapons.

Yep! 

66EC50C2-836C-4844-9808-40D7B2C7BABC.thumb.jpeg.a0c557c9c05e70452d21f0ba436f2d05.jpeg65637178_10216443762859515_3800166224319479808_n.jpg.d3dab40d24657a46aaec8b46f588a40f.jpg67728287_668358823589218_5499102871112646656_n.jpg.0110e8a611dd3f927eeb3a7860abfbec.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

before you drop that much cash, why not buy a Nomad for $5k and see if they even like sailing for a year.   NOT a keelboat but does everything else you say and unless you live in a high winds always locale, you can keep her right side up, have three sails, tons of deck space and it is small enough that you can handle it.  Then if they like it get a Corsair Trimaran and leave it on a trailer behind your house when you are not taking it on adventures.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...

Great discussion!  I’m in a similar situation to the OP. Looking for something 20 feet +-, fun to sail, that I can single hand or sail with a few friends. Some boats here that I hadn’t considered!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rocket 22.   its got a noticeably wider cockpit than a J70 and I’ve had 5 on mine comfortably for day sails a number of times.   A Lifting keel (I have a custom floor mount keel crane operated by the deck winches which  makes it very quick and safe to raise/lower keel for ramp launch dry sailing) and carbon mast (hoistable by 2-3 without need for a gin pole) make towing-to-sail inside 90 minutes.    

We’ve even slept onboard at regattas, which is more than you could do on any J or M in this range.  

The only challenge to single-handing is hoisting and dropping the main.. if I did any single-handing I’d switch to slides from bolt rope for lower friction hoists and drops.      

P.s. and mines for sale! 

5DC55160-3A20-4023-8D21-711056EB0B4C.jpeg

DDA632F7-1AAF-410E-BA75-A7A7469EE439.jpeg

607AF7DF-2107-4ACA-B9C0-2EC4D3177496.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Colgate 26 owner here.  They do NOT plane.  Launch the boat off the back of 8’ square chop off Diamond Head and they’ll surf for a bit, but basically it’s hull speed and then the boat starts trying to dig a bigger hole in the ocean.  

Also, fixed keel, and raising the mast is a 2 person job even with an A frame.  No good for the OP’s shallow water / one person rigging requirements.

Now, if you had a dock or mooring and you wanted an easily sailed boat that could happily accommodate 5 or 6 people and which has a real cockpit with actual backrests, plus very comfortable canted life rails for rail sitters, I’d say 100% go for the Colgate.  Horses for courses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...