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The American West is drying out. Things will get ugly


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The dairy industry uses about as much water as a million people in California.  (85 gallons per person per day, not counting bottled water).    https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3611 alfalfa

Just so everyone knows - the region of California known as Ventucky exists as a viable enclave of wealthy farmers only because of state and federal water projects virtually indistinguishable from ag p

Seriously?  You don't think there's an extremely high correlation between the illegal immigrants in CA and a particular race.   So if you hear urban gang member you think of Stuart Smiley?

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Except, you're missing the entire point.  Who wants another 60 Million people in CA???  Fuck that noise, I'd rather have golf courses, have milk for my Latte, eat red meat and enjoy almonds in my salad than have to put up with another several Billion worth of the teeming masses around the globe.  Frankly, people suck, and the less of us - the better.  

That’s the dilemma.   Strawberries are decent neighbors.   The condo dwellers can stay in California where they belong.   Lake Mead refugees needn’t pollute Lake Erie.

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2 hours ago, longy said:

The water shortage will continue, and get worse, until strict water rationing gets put in place. "The tragedy of the Commons" will be in full play. There are too many, very well protected, water assignment 'rights' imbedded in the system. Until even the most protected recipients go dry there can be no real savings. A massive increase in water cost to the consumer would help start the recovery.

   Golf courses can fuck right off. As can rice fields, almond orchards, and cows.

No rationing needed. Auction it off. No farmer would pay as much as I do. Plenty to go around, just nail the folks with marginal uses 

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4 hours ago, longy said:

The water shortage will continue, and get worse, until strict water rationing gets put in place. "The tragedy of the Commons" will be in full play. There are too many, very well protected, water assignment 'rights' imbedded in the system. Until even the most protected recipients go dry there can be no real savings. A massive increase in water cost to the consumer would help start the recovery.

   Golf courses can fuck right off. As can rice fields, almond orchards, and cows.

Why do 4 million illegal immigrants in CA deserve more water than my dairy or beef cows???

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Why do 4 million illegal immigrants in CA deserve more water that my dairy or beef cows???

You aren't burnishing your lefty here, just so you know.

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8 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Why do 4 million illegal immigrants in CA deserve more water that my dairy or beef cows???

I have no idea what that means

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:
12 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Why do 4 million illegal immigrants in CA deserve more water that than my dairy or beef cows???

I have no idea what that means

Fixed

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7 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Fixed

What’s “deserve” mean in this context. CRT again? 

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23 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

What’s “deserve” mean in this context. CRT again? 

It means Jeff values a good ribeye over the life of someone who didn't do the proper paperwork coming across the border.  

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12 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

It means Jeff values a good ribeye over the life of someone who didn't do the proper paperwork coming across the border.  

It has nothing to do with doing the proper paperwork coming across the border.  They crossed the border making a conscious decision to break our laws and sneak in.  And that is likely after 4-5 attempts due to being caught before and getting deported.  You make it sound like like it's an "ooopsie" where doing the paperwork just slipped their mind as they strolled across the Rio Grande.  

And FTR, I'm not a Ribeye fan.  Too fatty.  I prefer a good Prime grass fed NY Strip.  And yes, if it's a choice of water use between having my steak and letting people sneak into my country by the millions...... I'll take mine medium to slightly Med-rare with a good Napa red blend.  

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I suppose I could be snarky and mention that a bunch of folks will soon be getting their just deserts.  And mention that once again our least racist poster makes it about race.

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13 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Why do 4 million illegal immigrants in CA deserve more water than my dairy or beef cows???

There are a lot of farmers granted first claims to water when the Hetch Hetchy dam & aqueduct was built. Had to buy their support. The immigrants you complain about only work on those farms.

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15 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

I suppose I could be snarky and mention that a bunch of folks will soon be getting their just deserts.  And mention that once again our least racist poster makes it about race.

Where did I refer to race in anything I posted??  Is "illegal immigrant" now a race?

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4 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Where did I refer to race in anything I posted??  Is "illegal immigrant" now a race?

Seriously?  You don't think there's an extremely high correlation between the illegal immigrants in CA and a particular race.  

So if you hear urban gang member you think of Stuart Smiley?

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3 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Seriously?  You don't think there's an extremely high correlation between the illegal immigrants in CA and a particular race.  

I didn't know "Mexican" was a race.  And irregardless, if it was blond Swedes coming across the border, I would still have exactly the same issue with people sneaking into my country as I do with the current ones.  In fact, a significant number of our illegal immigrant population are people who overstay their visas on purpose.  I want them out too.  Go to the back of the line, apply and get accepted and I'll be the first to kiss you on the lips and welcome you to 'Murica.  

"Race" has the square root of fuckall to do with my opposition to illegal immigration.  OTOH, I am one of the largest proponents of LEGAL immigration.  We need to fix the system to be more efficient to get more people to come here legally.  

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

It has nothing to do with doing the proper paperwork coming across the border.  They crossed the border making a conscious decision to break our laws and sneak in.  And that is likely after 4-5 attempts due to being caught before and getting deported.  You make it sound like like it's an "ooopsie" where doing the paperwork just slipped their mind as they strolled across the Rio Grande.  

And FTR, I'm not a Ribeye fan.  Too fatty.  I prefer a good Prime grass fed NY Strip.  And yes, if it's a choice of water use between having my steak and letting people sneak into my country by the millions...... I'll take mine medium to slightly Med-rare with a good Napa red blend.  

Umm, what does one have to do with the other?

 

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27 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I didn't know "Mexican" was a race.  And irregardless, if it was blond Swedes coming across the border, I would still have exactly the same issue with people sneaking into my country as I do with the current ones.  In fact, a significant number of our illegal immigrant population are people who overstay their visas on purpose.  I want them out too.  Go to the back of the line, apply and get accepted and I'll be the first to kiss you on the lips and welcome you to 'Murica.  

"Race" has the square root of fuckall to do with my opposition to illegal immigration.  OTOH, I am one of the largest proponents of LEGAL immigration.  We need to fix the system to be more efficient to get more people to come here legally.  

Forget your adderall today? Focus man, focus. 

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

 

I'm gonna put my neck out and say you don't need your meat I mean your "prime grass fed ny strip" as much as the planet needs a reprieve from all that kind of shit. 

btw a reminder to all, I just read an article on the madness loop that is the vulgar overuse of AC in 'merica.. jfc. sure, heat can be 'uncomfortable', especially if you're not properly hydrated. be smart, prepare and adapt instead.

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30 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

I'm gonna put my neck out and say you don't need your meat I mean your "prime grass fed ny strip" as much as the planet needs a reprieve from all that kind of shit. 

btw a reminder to all, I just read an article on the madness loop that is the vulgar overuse of AC in 'merica.. jfc. sure, heat can be 'uncomfortable', especially if you're not properly hydrated. be smart, prepare and adapt instead.

Did you see the article about texans outraged because they had signed up for remote control of their power systems?  So if the grid is in danger of overloading they can turn down the AC in your house remotely to prevent a blackout.

One couple woke up sweating because it was 78 degrees.  They had a baby and it could have DIED!  OMG.

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14 minutes ago, The_Real_XYZ said:

... One couple woke up sweating because it was 78 degrees.  They had a baby and it could have DIED!  OMG.

I dream of a 78° day. Here on the California coast, Mother Nature's aircon seems stuck at 65°. 

Texas...heh...fuck them. Laughable idiocy.

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37 minutes ago, The_Real_XYZ said:

Did you see the article about texans outraged because they had signed up for remote control of their power systems?  So if the grid is in danger of overloading they can turn down the AC in your house remotely to prevent a blackout.

One couple woke up sweating because it was 78 degrees.  They had a baby and it could have DIED!  OMG.

it's a bizarre mindset, and ultimately very shortsighted. far too many people need to wake the fck up.

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4 minutes ago, 3to1 said:
38 minutes ago, The_Real_XYZ said:

Did you see the article about texans outraged because they had signed up for remote control of their power systems?  So if the grid is in danger of overloading they can turn down the AC in your house remotely to prevent a blackout.

One couple woke up sweating because it was 78 degrees.  They had a baby and it could have DIED!  OMG.

it's a strange mindset. a lot of people need to wake the fck up.

Those people are in for a really rude awakening if they think 78 d F is "hot" for June in Texas.

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those people are in for a really rude awakening if they think 78 d F is "hot" for June in Texas.

- DSK

What they need to do is alternate winter and summer days, so it doesn't get too far out of whack. I'm sure Louie Gohmert has a plan.

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6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those people are in for a really rude awakening if they think 78 d F is "hot" for June in Texas.

- DSK

granted, 78 deg. can 'feel' quite a bit more stifling indoors and at night, but AC should be relegated to plan B. 

there are other ways to beat the heat, use those instead.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I didn't know "Mexican" was a race. 

Jesus, you are having an off day.  Where did I say they were?  On top of your demonstrated expertise with percentages, maybe you don't understand the word correlate.  

Illegal CAs ----->.   Mexicans

Mexicans ------->.   Latinos

Latinos ---------->.  Is a race!

I'm ok if you choke on your NY Strip, a wise man once said we have too many people on this marble.

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

What they need to do is alternate winter and summer days, so it doesn't get too far out of whack. I'm sure Louie Gohmert has a plan.

I bet mud pits would be well received.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Umm, what does one have to do with the other?

 

Steaks or illegal immigrants?

 

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

Steaks or illegal immigrants?

 

exactly.

How are illegal immigrants threatening your steak? (Given they were the labor to feed it and slaughter it, pack it, etc) - seems more like you NEED to have illegal immigrants in order to enjoy your steak.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

And mention that once again our least racist poster makes it about race.

I wanted to go back and re-address this comment.  I think this is a prime example of what is wrong with most discussions here on PA and even more so an example of part of what is causing the huge gulf of the divide in America.  You can no longer have an honest discussion without someone throwing down a hot button trump card (no pun intended) to shut that conversation down because you don't like it.  

I can (and do) have an honest disagreement with our policies and attitudes wrt to illegal immigrants here in this country WITHOUT it being racist.  It is in no way whatsoever based in racism that I want our illegal immigrant flow staunched and addressed.  I no longer will tolerate turning a blind eye to it, and that includes liberal bedwetters and hand wringers who want to save everyone on the planet from every bad thing that could ever happen to anyone in the history of forever...... as well as GOP fat cat businessmen who look the other way and fuel the demand side so they can turn an easier profit rather than paying decent wages to citizens to do the shit work. 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fucking color of someone's skin!  I have repeatedly and unambiguously said numerous times that I WANT MORE latino immigrants to come here legally because they are generally very hard working, dependable and good family oriented decent folk.  We need lots more of that here.  I even said I would be the first to welcome them across the border after they've jumped through the legal hoops.  And I've clearly said those hoops need to be made far more efficient, far more quicker and far more equitable.  I've even jokingly (but not really joking) that I would trade sending one shit bag, white trailer trash meth head looser(sic) in exchange for bringing in 3 Mexican or other Latin American immigrants to this country.  Hell, make it 4 for 1.  How the FUCK is that "racist"?

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15 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Not exactly.

How are illegal immigrants threatening your steak? (Given they were the labor to feed it and slaughter it, pack it, etc) - seems more like you NEED to have illegal LEGAL immigrants in order to enjoy your steak.

I agree with the edited version.  

Do not make the mistake like most here that being anti-ILLEGAL immigrant means I'm anti-immigrant.  That is exactly the opposite of what I believe.  I get that trumpers are anti-immigrant altogether - but I am not one of those.

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44 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I agree with the edited version.  

Do not make the mistake like most here that being anti-ILLEGAL immigrant means I'm anti-immigrant.  That is exactly the opposite of what I believe.  I get that trumpers are anti-immigrant altogether - but I am not one of those.

yeah, but the R team won't allow any new "Legal" ways to get folks here to massage your steer. So to speak. So, you demand the goods, the businesses need labor to provide said goods, and there are people willing to do whatever is needed to give you your steak at a price you like.

I'm reminded of the "You can't handle the truth" rant (maybe best movie rant ever, even if that weasel Cruise was in the show, but I digress) - I don't think that you can handle the truth that our system requires, hell, it's designed so that it needs "ILLEGAL" immigration to work. We could talk about modern-day slavery, as that's pretty much what it is.  (Note I didn't mention Race at all, but the damn ag/construction/low-qual services systems are BUILT on racism)

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I agree with the edited version.  

Do not make the mistake like most here that being anti-ILLEGAL immigrant means I'm anti-immigrant.  That is exactly the opposite of what I believe.  I get that trumpers are anti-immigrant altogether - but I am not one of those.

OK, great.

Let's see your note to your legislator telling him you support amnesty and fast-track citizenship for DREAMers

- DSK

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On 6/23/2021 at 7:09 AM, Burning Man said:

Are you kidding???  The desert is THE best place for golf courses, because you can play all year around.  Who TF wants to play golf in the rain/snow in vancouver?  

sahara-camels-snow.jpg

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The heat is migrating to Portland?
 

https://gizmodo.com/a-record-breaking-and-dangerous-heat-wave-is-about-to-h-1847157954

The Euro and GFS weather models, essentially the two gold standards for forecasters, are in agreement that the magnitude of this event will be extreme. While there are some slight differences of a few degrees up or down, the overall alignment is generally a sign something very rare and serious is about to go down. Among the more disturbing numbers coming out of the models are Portland cracking 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees Celsius), a threshold the city has never breached.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fakenews said:

The heat is migrating to Portland?
 

https://gizmodo.com/a-record-breaking-and-dangerous-heat-wave-is-about-to-h-1847157954

The Euro and GFS weather models, essentially the two gold standards for forecasters, are in agreement that the magnitude of this event will be extreme. While there are some slight differences of a few degrees up or down, the overall alignment is generally a sign something very rare and serious is about to go down. Among the more disturbing numbers coming out of the models are Portland cracking 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees Celsius), a threshold the city has never breached.

 

 

the center of that high pressure will at some point be significantly further north than that if I'm not mistaken. 

and within the area recently: 

9/2020- worst air quality on the planet for about four days due numerous to raging wildfires, didn't see the sun for five days.

2/2020- severe ice storm, widespread power outages from downed tree limbs, some without power for almost nine days.

6/2021- historical all time highest temperature forecast ever, long string of 90+ deg. days following two forecasted record days this weekend.

we've been getting our asses beat, this stuff is quite abnormal. and I'm just gonna say it; the human race deserves to eat a good serving of shit, everything else is.

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1 hour ago, Not for nothing said:

California’s Almonds Suck as Much Water Annually as Los Angeles Uses in Three Years

Someone add up the GDP of LA vs the revenue of almonds

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15 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I did the math, more nuts in LA.

Haha

$1.3T vs $15B

A little water tax and almonds go away

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5 hours ago, Raz'r said:

yeah, but the R team won't allow any new "Legal" ways to get folks here to massage your steer. So to speak. So, you demand the goods, the businesses need labor to provide said goods, and there are people willing to do whatever is needed to give you your steak at a price you like.

I'm reminded of the "You can't handle the truth" rant (maybe best movie rant ever, even if that weasel Cruise was in the show, but I digress) - I don't think that you can handle the truth that our system requires, hell, it's designed so that it needs "ILLEGAL" immigration to work. We could talk about modern-day slavery, as that's pretty much what it is.  (Note I didn't mention Race at all, but the damn ag/construction/low-qual services systems are BUILT on racism)

Oh, I'm well aware of what our system is used to and how it operates.  I'm trying to say we need to change that.  And it is not all about Team R.  Team D absolutely doesn't want to change the status quo either, irregardless of how they talk about how much they want to "support" illegal immigrants.  It's all BS to pander for votes.  When Bush the Lessor tried comprehensive immigration reform - it was scuttled equally from the Right (Business) as well as from the Left (unions).  The ironic thing is that the same things will scuttle any future attempts.  But the Left is now in the pockets of Big business and the right is pandering to the traditional union blue collar worker.  It would be funny if the whole thing weren't so fucking sad.  

Frankly, I equate the exploitation of illegal immigrants - especially those who say "you can't handle the truth" as nothing more than a soft version of racism/slavery.  Yeah, they sorta volunteer for it.  But it's exploitation nonetheless.  I don't see the d-Rats doing much to change this system.  At least the R's are up front about it and don't sugar coat it.  

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK, great.

Let's see your note to your legislator telling him you support amnesty and fast-track citizenship for DREAMers

- DSK

You don't read English well, do you?  A product of that NC rural public school edumacation system it seems.  

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25 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Oh, I'm well aware of what our system is used to and how it operates.  I'm trying to say we need to change that.  And it is not all about Team R.  Team D absolutely doesn't want to change the status quo either, irregardless of how they talk about how much they want to "support" illegal immigrants.  It's all BS to pander for votes.  When Bush the Lessor tried comprehensive immigration reform - it was scuttled equally from the Right (Business) as well as from the Left (unions).  The ironic thing is that the same things will scuttle any future attempts.  But the Left is now in the pockets of Big business and the right is pandering to the traditional union blue collar worker.  It would be funny if the whole thing weren't so fucking sad.  

Frankly, I equate the exploitation of illegal immigrants - especially those who say "you can't handle the truth" as nothing more than a soft version of racism/slavery.  Yeah, they sorta volunteer for it.  But it's exploitation nonetheless.  I don't see the d-Rats doing much to change this system.  At least the R's are up front about it and don't sugar coat it.  

Imagine the outcry if Uncle Joe said “no citizenship, but green cards for all in the states”. Actually, I don’t think we have to imagine. The American people love to have an underclass they can blame for shit. Uncle Joe would lose his majorities and TFG would walk right back in stage.

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1 hour ago, 3to1 said:

the center of that high pressure will at some point be significantly further north than that if I'm not mistaken. 

and within the area recently: 

9/2020- worst air quality on the planet for about four days due numerous to raging wildfires, didn't see the sun for five days.

2/2020*- severe ice storm, widespread power outages from downed tree limbs, some without power for almost nine days.

6/2021- historical all time highest temperature forecast ever, long string of 90+ deg. days following two forecasted record days this weekend.

we've been getting our asses beat, this stuff is quite abnormal. and I'm just gonna say it; the human race deserves to eat a good serving of shit, everything else is.

*edit-2/2021

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3 hours ago, Fakenews said:

The heat is migrating to Portland?
 

https://gizmodo.com/a-record-breaking-and-dangerous-heat-wave-is-about-to-h-1847157954

The Euro and GFS weather models, essentially the two gold standards for forecasters, are in agreement that the magnitude of this event will be extreme. While there are some slight differences of a few degrees up or down, the overall alignment is generally a sign something very rare and serious is about to go down. Among the more disturbing numbers coming out of the models are Portland cracking 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees Celsius), a threshold the city has never breached.

 

 

It's going to be ridiculously hot here in Victrola on the weekend. We're right at the north tip of that graphic. Good days to be on the water. Naturally, for at least one of them I'm going to be stuck in the house helping my wife put together a Zoom instructional. Thankfully, I don't have to be on screen, so I can be crawling drunk by the halfway mark.

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42 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

 Thankfully, I don't have to be on screen, so I can be crawling drunk by the halfway mark.

positive attitude, guaranteed.

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8 hours ago, Burning Man said:
11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK, great.

Let's see your note to your legislator telling him you support amnesty and fast-track citizenship for DREAMers

 

You don't read English well, do you?  A product of that NC rural public school edumacation system it seems.  

So, you really do hate immigrants, you just want credit for pretending not to?

What would be your solution, Mr. Yay-Immigrants, to these huge ongoing problems?

- DSK

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15 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

California’s Almonds Suck as Much Water Annually as Los Angeles Uses in Three Years

So which tree crop should we cut out in California?  Avocados, citrus, pears, olives, prunes, stone fruits (peaches, nectarines) walnuts, pistachios et al....   pistachios, walnuts and stone fruits all use close to  if not more the same amount of water as almonds, and California represents I believe 80% of the worlds production of almonds... should we  just boycott almonds all together and shut the industry down?

What about alfalfa for the dairy industry and export?  It uses more water than almonds.. should that be cut as well?

Why do you think almonds are getting the bad rap?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

So which tree crop should we cut out in California?  Avocados, citrus, pears, olives, prunes, stone fruits (peaches, nectarines) walnuts, pistachios et al....   pistachios, walnuts and stone fruits all use close to  if not more the same amount of water as almonds, and California represents I believe 80% of the worlds production of almonds... should we  just boycott almonds all together and shut the industry down?

What about alfalfa for the dairy industry and export?  It uses more water than almonds.. should that be cut as well?

Why do you think almonds are getting the bad rap?

 

 

Because almonds are the largest crop. Why do you hate the free market? Why should farmers get THE major raw material in California for free why the rest of us pay $$$s?  Centrally planned economies are bad, sometimes.

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21 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Because almonds are the largest crop. Why do you hate the free market? Why should farmers get THE major raw material in California for free why the rest of us pay $$$s?  Centrally planned economies are bad, sometimes.

Farmers do pay for the water with delivery and other fee's on an average of $95 per acre-foot for 2021 .  Believe it or not, your water bill is virtually the same thing, you're paying to have it delivered and taken away once used.  Are the farmers getting it cheaper, yes, does it need the purification standards as your drinking water?

How long is your daily shower, how much time do you spend washing down your Weta after sailing, how many times a month do you wash your car, how many 1/4 loads of laundry do you.. bet you're guilty of all of this.

 

 

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14 hours ago, 3to1 said:
15 hours ago, 3to1 said:

the center of that high pressure will at some point be significantly further north than that if I'm not mistaken. 

and within the area recently: 

9/2020- worst air quality on the planet for about four days due numerous to raging wildfires, didn't see the sun for five days.

2/2020*- severe ice storm, widespread power outages from downed tree limbs, some without power for almost nine days.

6/2021- historical all time highest temperature forecast ever, long string of 90+ deg. days following two forecasted record days this weekend.

we've been getting our asses beat, this stuff is quite abnormal. and I'm just gonna say it; the human race deserves to eat a good serving of shit, everything else is.

*edit-2/2021

Given the choice between 12 months of masks, social distancing and lockdowns vs 2 weeks of that somke we had in Sep.  I'd take the pandemic. 

Let's not forget that it was precipitated by a bizarre 90 degree 60 mph east wind off of the desert through the cascades and down into the valley in spite of the fact that my mother in-law insists that it was caused by social justice protesters working in concert with antifa.

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41 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

Farmers do pay for the water with delivery and other fee's on an average of $95 per acre-foot for 2021 .  Believe it or not, your water bill is virtually the same thing, you're paying to have it delivered and taken away once used.  Are the farmers getting it cheaper, yes, does it need the purification standards as your drinking water?

How long is your daily shower, how much time do you spend washing down your Weta after sailing, how many times a month do you wash your car, how many 1/4 loads of laundry do you.. bet you're guilty of all of this.

 

 

Annual household use of water in Cali? 1 acre-foot per house. My water bill (i'm average) about $3000.

I'm not guilty of shit. I'm paying market rates. Have the farmers pay something close to market rates, ok, go wholesale. All of a sudden you'd see farm use drop dramatically. Yeah, milk prices would go up.Yeah, almond prices would go up. Duh. That's how a market works.

Farmers and the amounts they don't pay lead us to a clear market failure. Tragedy of the commons writ large.  Read up on that if you don't understand.

 

Why do you hate the free market?  What is it about Righties and their clear misunderstanding of the market?

And before you get all "oh, but the poor farmers" - fine, buy them out. 

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1 hour ago, Ventucky Red said:

So which tree crop should we cut out in California?  Avocados, citrus, pears, olives, prunes, stone fruits (peaches, nectarines) walnuts, pistachios et al....   pistachios, walnuts and stone fruits all use close to  if not more the same amount of water as almonds, and California represents I believe 80% of the worlds production of almonds... should we  just boycott almonds all together and shut the industry down?

What about alfalfa for the dairy industry and export?  It uses more water than almonds.. should that be cut as well?

Why do you think almonds are getting the bad rap?

 

 

As I just had a dark chocolate almond bar, ??? ok agree almond gets a bad rap!

 A whopping 106 gallons of water goes into making just one ounce of beef. By comparison, just about 23 gallons are needed for an ounce of almonds (about 23 nuts), the Los Angeles Times reported recently.

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15 minutes ago, Teener said:

Given the choice between 12 months of masks, social distancing and lockdowns vs 2 weeks of that somke we had in Sep.  I'd take the pandemic. 

Let's not forget that it was precipitated by a bizarre 90 degree 60 mph east wind off of the desert through the cascades and down into the valley in spite of the fact that my mother in-law insists that it was caused by social justice protesters working in concert with antifa.

I hear you, and I luved the raining ashes part. your MIL has some crazy 'theories'. 

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28 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

As I just had a dark chocolate almond bar, ??? ok agree almond gets a bad rap!

 A whopping 106 gallons of water goes into making just one ounce of beef. By comparison, just about 23 gallons are needed for an ounce of almonds (about 23 nuts), the Los Angeles Times reported recently.

That is offset by the fact that beef is 100 times more tasty than almonds.   

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Annual household use of water in Cali? 1 acre-foot per house. My water bill (i'm average) about $3000.

I'm not guilty of shit. I'm paying market rates. Have the farmers pay something close to market rates, ok, go wholesale. All of a sudden you'd see farm use drop dramatically. Yeah, milk prices would go up.Yeah, almond prices would go up. Duh. That's how a market works.

Farmers and the amounts they don't pay lead us to a clear market failure. Tragedy of the commons writ large.  Read up on that if you don't understand.

 

Why do you hate the free market?  What is it about Righties and their clear misunderstanding of the market?

And before you get all "oh, but the poor farmers" - fine, buy them out. 

Are you sure what you're paying is the market rate? Or an inflated price to cover the cost and bureaucratic overly redundant water department.  How much are they paying for it, marking it up, and selling it to you and I?  Probably the same price farmers are paying.  Even thought it is regulated, there a a lot of middle steps to get water to you then there is for a field/orchard. Someone has to pay for that.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

Are you sure what you're paying is the market rate? Or an inflated price to cover the cost and bureaucratic overly redundant water department.  How much are they paying for it, marking it up, and selling it to you and I?  Probably the same price farmers are paying.  Even thought it is regulated, there a a lot of middle steps to get water to you then there is for a field/orchard. Someone has to pay for that.

 

 

 

 

Nope, that's not how it works in California and you know it. Why lie?  Why do you hate the free market? Pricing works when allocating scarce materials everywhere else, why not in Cali for water?

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Nope, that's not how it works in California and you know it. Why lie?  Why do you hate the free market? Pricing works when allocating scarce materials everywhere else, why not in Cali for water?

Yeah it how it works... read on

http://www.mwdh2o.com/WhoWeAre/Board/Board-Meeting/Board Archives/2011/03 - March/Reports/064746982.pdf

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Why do you hate the free market?  What is it about Righties and their clear misunderstanding of the market?

That's just one on a long, long list of things they don't understand.

Everything they think about these things is filtered through an ideological lens before they engage any thought process.

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1 hour ago, Ventucky Red said:

Are you sure what you're paying is the market rate? Or an inflated price to cover the cost and bureaucratic overly redundant water department.  How much are they paying for it, marking it up, and selling it to you and I?  Probably the same price farmers are paying.  Even thought it is regulated, there a a lot of middle steps to get water to you then there is for a field/orchard. Someone has to pay for that.

That's funny! You have no idea how anything works! 

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14 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, you really do hate immigrants, you just want credit for pretending not to?

What would be your solution, Mr. Yay-Immigrants, to these huge ongoing problems?

- DSK

I've written several detailed posts about what I would do about immigration. And I know you've seen them because you've commented on them.  You can't help NOT commenting on anything I write here.   Stop being such a lazy cunt and keep up.  Search is your friend. 

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15 minutes ago, Sean said:

Daily Beast has an impressive spread of drought photos - https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-wests-devastating-drought-captured-in-aerial-photography

 

Here’s a sample -

 

A94AB9B7-8DDD-4062-BF7C-436DD2E30D0A.jpeg

Perfect time to get the excavators in there and make some decent channels.

So what if the water never comes back...

FKT

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On 6/23/2021 at 10:26 PM, 3to1 said:

the center of that high pressure will at some point be significantly further north than that if I'm not mistaken. 

and within the area recently: 

9/2020- worst air quality on the planet for about four days due numerous to raging wildfires, didn't see the sun for five days.

2/2020- severe ice storm, widespread power outages from downed tree limbs, some without power for almost nine days.

6/2021- historical all time highest temperature forecast ever, long string of 90+ deg. days following two forecasted record days this weekend.

we've been getting our asses beat, this stuff is quite abnormal. and I'm just gonna say it; the human race deserves to eat a good serving of shit, everything else is.

Except for brief glimpses, we haven't seen the sun in a month. (The 16th was the only "Mostly sunny" day in June)

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On 6/24/2021 at 2:45 PM, Fakenews said:

That is offset by the fact that beef is 100 times more tasty than almonds.   

Depends on what it's fed. Florida grass fed beef is about as tasty as a piece of cardboard. Good grain finished beef is usually good. Almonds, especially fresh almonds are almost always excellent. I like sea almonds, pan roasted with sea water. Also, roasted breadfruit nuts are almost as good as fresh chestnuts.

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Except for brief glimpses, we haven't seen the sun in a month. (The 16th was the only "Mostly sunny" day in June)

cloud cover or smoke?

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Can’t imagine being a firefighter battling these blazes. 
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/07/01/underpaid-firefighters-overstretched-budgets-us-isnt-prepared-fires-fueled-by-climate-change/

 


Excerpt -

PORTLAND, Ore. — On the heels of one of the worst wildfire years on record, the federal government is struggling to recruit and retain staff as firefighters grapple with low wages, trauma and burnout from increasingly long and intense fire seasons.

 

As heat waves topple temperature records across the nation, firefighters are actively battling 48 large blazes that have consumed more than half a million acres in 12 states. But land management agencies are carrying out fire mitigation measures at a fraction of the pace required, and the funds needed to make communities more resilient are one-seventh of what the government has supplied.

A1C307D9-BFD6-49CB-B8DC-5211F8319C78.jpeg

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17 hours ago, Sean said:

Daily Beast has an impressive spread of drought photos - https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-wests-devastating-drought-captured-in-aerial-photography

 

Here’s a sample -

 

 

That was interesting, I saw the Beast article and it only had a single image, above the article. Firefox and Brave were the same, but Opera showed me the remaining images. There's some strange stuff going on with the net these days.

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32 minutes ago, El Mariachi said:

Apparently you're a very big fan of Chinese food....

I actually am but please tell me how a golf course on a military base, paid for, but off limits to the American tax payer, helps keep the Chinese away?  There are 5 golf courses on military bases within 50 miles from where I live.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
On 6/19/2021 at 4:38 PM, badlatitude said:

2020 was the worst fire season in the recorded history of the West. Because of increasing drought and hotter temperatures, the western fire season has extended the summer season to two to three months longer.  It also means fires will be more vicious, water supplies will be limited, and relief will be not be forthcoming from the federal government in the way of infrastructure aid.

Current drought impact monitor: https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?West

 

 

"The incredible pictures of a depleted Lake Mead, on the California-Nevada border, illustrate the effects of drought brought on by climate change.

Later this year, the US government will almost certainly declare the first-ever water shortagealong the Colorado River. Maps show more than a quarter of the US is in "exceptional drought," underscoring the scope of a decades-long dry-out.
Stories are popping up across the West of possible rationing, coming restrictions and looming standoffs between farmers and the government over the most precious natural resource.
Restrictions. States like Arizona and Nevada are almost guaranteed to have their water allotment from the Colorado River cut back, which through a complicated drought contingency tier system agreed to by states in 2019 will affect farmers first. But the warning signs are there for urban areas and surrounding states to conserve and evolve.
In the San Francisco Bay Area, served by a different water system, residents are being asked to reduce water usage by 15% compared to 2019. Houseboats were removed from the state's second-largest reservoir because the water level fell so low. The hydropower plant at the same reservoir may be forced offline for the first time because of low water.
Standoff. To the north, there's a sharp disagreement in Oregon between farmers cut off from water to irrigate their potatoes and federal officials trying to save an endangered species of fish.
When CNN's Lucy Kafanov reported from the Klamath Basin last week, she did her live shot from the parched bottom of a lake that should be feet deep.
The farmers set up shop in a tent outside the canal headgate and were all but threatening to break in and open the gates themselves, like they did 20 years ago.
The most visible and striking effect of the heat and drought is at Lake Mead, which is at its lowest levels since it was filled during construction of the Hoover Dam in the 1930s.
Less snowpack and more evaporation from hot temperatures have taken their toll over the course of decades to the point where its dropped more than 140 feet since 2000 and sits at not much more than a third of its capacity.
Now for an aside on the Hoover Dam, government spending and climate change.
The dam: Talk about an infrastructure project! President Joe Biden came to office promising a New Deal-level investment in infrastructure. That'll be pared back by three quarters if he's to get any Republican help passing it, 
Government spending: The latest bipartisan proposal includes $5 billion to help address the Western water shortage, although larger pots of money are meant to improve water and power infrastructure; the dam, with less water behind it, is producing less energy.
Climate change: But while lawmakers are happy to find a way to spend money on infrastructure as long as they don't raise taxes, there's zero agreement with Republicans to do anything directly about climate change, which is helping this drought along. Democrats may try to go it alone and pass a much larger infrastructure bill that seeks to address climate change, but it's not clear they'll have the votes.
Long time coming. The water at Lake Mead has been slowly falling for years. In 2015, CNN went to see St. Thomas, a former town of 500 people that was bought out by the government and submerged under 60 feet of water for the sake of Lake Mead. St. Thomas emerged from the depths as the water lowered. And kept lowering.
Remember, 40 million people living across seven Western states and Mexico get their water from the Colorado River system.
The entire West is dry. CNN's climate team put together three maps to bring perspective to the historic drought.
The current drought map shows the 88% of the Western part of the country in some shade of red and the East almost entirely unfazed. 
The upcoming rainfall outlook is just as grim, suggesting there will be no relief out West. And a look at stream and river flow demonstrates a lack of water moving across the region.
They could have added a fourth with this heat map as the West bakes in record temperatures.
Decades of drought. The Intermountain West -- between the Rockies, the Cascades and the Sierra Nevada Mountains -- has technically been in a drought for decades, since 2000. It's a vicious cycle: Hot weather leads to drought, and drought leads to hot weather.

Drought envelops the US West

Weather forecasters fear exceptional drought conditions observed in Western states could lead to severe fire conditions.

What makes a drought "exceptional?" It's interesting to look at what goes into these maps, which are quite alarming with all the deep red. The data is maintained by the University of Nebraska-Lincoln in partnership with government agencies. They have very specific criteria that's unique to each state for delineating between "extreme drought" and "exceptional drought."
The criteria they list for "exceptional drought" in California is not far from apocalyptic:
  • Fields are left fallow; orchards are removed; vegetable yields are low; honey harvest is small
  • Fire season is very costly; number of fires and area burned are extensive
  • Many recreational activities are affected
  • Fish rescue and relocation begins; pine beetle infestation occurs; forest mortality is high; wetlands dry up; survival of native plants and animals is low; fewer wildflowers bloom; wildlife death is widespread; algae blooms appear
  • Policy change; agriculture unemployment is high, food aid is needed
  • Poor air quality affects health; greenhouse gas emissions increase as hydropower production decreases; West Nile Virus outbreaks rise
  • Water shortages are widespread; surface water is depleted; federal irrigation water deliveries are extremely low; junior water rights are curtailed; water prices are extremely high; wells are dry, more and deeper wells are drilled; water quality is poor
We know the short-term effects of this drought will be restrictions and new rules. What's harder to see is the longer-term effects, although it's a broader look at water and drought that makes the dire predictions of climate refugees fleeing parts of the country that become too hot or arid, or the breakdown of water sharing systems and agreements. 
That seems both a long way off as humans turn their attention toward using less water and finding new ways to capture it, store it and reuse it. But those far-fetched predictions seem all too close when the nation's largest reservoir is literally drying up."

Oh, no, "climate change" is causing unprecidented fires in the west.  

It seems that in 2020, in the US, 10.1 million acres burned.  That is a whole lot.

But, rest easy because as bad as you think "climate change" is today, during the period between 1500 and 1800, it was a whole lot worse.  In fact, in an average year during that period, 145 million acres burned.  You can find this source saved as a google book if you look for it.

 

 

Burn Acres.jpg

Untitled.jpg

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On 6/19/2021 at 4:38 PM, badlatitude said:

2020 was the worst fire season in the recorded history of the West. Because of increasing drought and hotter temperatures, the western fire season has extended the summer season to two to three months longer.  It also means fires will be more vicious, water supplies will be limited, and relief will be not be forthcoming from the federal government in the way of infrastructure aid.

Current drought impact monitor: https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?West

 

 

"The incredible pictures of a depleted Lake Mead, on the California-Nevada border, illustrate the effects of drought brought on by climate change.

Later this year, the US government will almost certainly declare the first-ever water shortagealong the Colorado River. Maps show more than a quarter of the US is in "exceptional drought," underscoring the scope of a decades-long dry-out.
Stories are popping up across the West of possible rationing, coming restrictions and looming standoffs between farmers and the government over the most precious natural resource.
Restrictions. States like Arizona and Nevada are almost guaranteed to have their water allotment from the Colorado River cut back, which through a complicated drought contingency tier system agreed to by states in 2019 will affect farmers first. But the warning signs are there for urban areas and surrounding states to conserve and evolve.
In the San Francisco Bay Area, served by a different water system, residents are being asked to reduce water usage by 15% compared to 2019. Houseboats were removed from the state's second-largest reservoir because the water level fell so low. The hydropower plant at the same reservoir may be forced offline for the first time because of low water.
Standoff. To the north, there's a sharp disagreement in Oregon between farmers cut off from water to irrigate their potatoes and federal officials trying to save an endangered species of fish.
When CNN's Lucy Kafanov reported from the Klamath Basin last week, she did her live shot from the parched bottom of a lake that should be feet deep.
The farmers set up shop in a tent outside the canal headgate and were all but threatening to break in and open the gates themselves, like they did 20 years ago.
The most visible and striking effect of the heat and drought is at Lake Mead, which is at its lowest levels since it was filled during construction of the Hoover Dam in the 1930s.
Less snowpack and more evaporation from hot temperatures have taken their toll over the course of decades to the point where its dropped more than 140 feet since 2000 and sits at not much more than a third of its capacity.
Now for an aside on the Hoover Dam, government spending and climate change.
The dam: Talk about an infrastructure project! President Joe Biden came to office promising a New Deal-level investment in infrastructure. That'll be pared back by three quarters if he's to get any Republican help passing it, 
Government spending: The latest bipartisan proposal includes $5 billion to help address the Western water shortage, although larger pots of money are meant to improve water and power infrastructure; the dam, with less water behind it, is producing less energy.
Climate change: But while lawmakers are happy to find a way to spend money on infrastructure as long as they don't raise taxes, there's zero agreement with Republicans to do anything directly about climate change, which is helping this drought along. Democrats may try to go it alone and pass a much larger infrastructure bill that seeks to address climate change, but it's not clear they'll have the votes.
Long time coming. The water at Lake Mead has been slowly falling for years. In 2015, CNN went to see St. Thomas, a former town of 500 people that was bought out by the government and submerged under 60 feet of water for the sake of Lake Mead. St. Thomas emerged from the depths as the water lowered. And kept lowering.
Remember, 40 million people living across seven Western states and Mexico get their water from the Colorado River system.
The entire West is dry. CNN's climate team put together three maps to bring perspective to the historic drought.
The current drought map shows the 88% of the Western part of the country in some shade of red and the East almost entirely unfazed. 
The upcoming rainfall outlook is just as grim, suggesting there will be no relief out West. And a look at stream and river flow demonstrates a lack of water moving across the region.
They could have added a fourth with this heat map as the West bakes in record temperatures.
Decades of drought. The Intermountain West -- between the Rockies, the Cascades and the Sierra Nevada Mountains -- has technically been in a drought for decades, since 2000. It's a vicious cycle: Hot weather leads to drought, and drought leads to hot weather.

Drought envelops the US West

Weather forecasters fear exceptional drought conditions observed in Western states could lead to severe fire conditions.

What makes a drought "exceptional?" It's interesting to look at what goes into these maps, which are quite alarming with all the deep red. The data is maintained by the University of Nebraska-Lincoln in partnership with government agencies. They have very specific criteria that's unique to each state for delineating between "extreme drought" and "exceptional drought."
The criteria they list for "exceptional drought" in California is not far from apocalyptic:
  • Fields are left fallow; orchards are removed; vegetable yields are low; honey harvest is small
  • Fire season is very costly; number of fires and area burned are extensive
  • Many recreational activities are affected
  • Fish rescue and relocation begins; pine beetle infestation occurs; forest mortality is high; wetlands dry up; survival of native plants and animals is low; fewer wildflowers bloom; wildlife death is widespread; algae blooms appear
  • Policy change; agriculture unemployment is high, food aid is needed
  • Poor air quality affects health; greenhouse gas emissions increase as hydropower production decreases; West Nile Virus outbreaks rise
  • Water shortages are widespread; surface water is depleted; federal irrigation water deliveries are extremely low; junior water rights are curtailed; water prices are extremely high; wells are dry, more and deeper wells are drilled; water quality is poor
We know the short-term effects of this drought will be restrictions and new rules. What's harder to see is the longer-term effects, although it's a broader look at water and drought that makes the dire predictions of climate refugees fleeing parts of the country that become too hot or arid, or the breakdown of water sharing systems and agreements. 
That seems both a long way off as humans turn their attention toward using less water and finding new ways to capture it, store it and reuse it. But those far-fetched predictions seem all too close when the nation's largest reservoir is literally drying up."

What does make a drought "exceptional?"

Drought-chart-Mercury-news.jpg

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Look at this climate clown talking about how climate change is draining the Great Lakes.  Interesting that the last few years were near all time record highs.  

 

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21 hours ago, jzk said:

But, rest easy because as bad as you think "climate change" is today, during the period between 1500 and 1800, it was a whole lot worse.  In fact, in an average year during that period, 145 million acres burned.  You can find this source saved as a google book if you look for it.

Well, how many power lines did they have crossing the forests in 1500?  You see, because we live here on the planet in 2021, climate change or whatever you want to call it, is making it more dangerous for us, in 2021, to live.  Not sure how worse draught in 1500 has anything to do with current draught.  Are you saying we should just use up all we have and let the Great Salt Lake dry up because 500 years ago draught was worse? 

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