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bluffs, blarney, blather, and bullshit


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It has become trite, these days, to complain that professionalism is undermining what little is left of the Corinthian spirit in sailing. The impact of money on the sport is self-evident. Less apparent, though, is the way that commercial imperatives are now eroding national loyalties and even some of our fundamental assumptions about social responsibility.

An initial case in point: it is difficult to believe that ETNZ boss Grant Dalton would be so tone-deaf to public sentiment in his native New Zealand that he did not anticipate a speedy backlash to the team’s rejection of a $100m offer from his government and city council to keep the next America’s Cup regatta in Auckland.

For Dalton and his syndicate, this could be just an early gambit of high-stakes bluff to extract a better offer, but they might have misjudged the vehemence of local reaction.

Rawiri Waititi, co-leader of the Maori Party, a minority group in the New Zealand parliament, voiced the concerns of many Kiwis when he released a statement condemning the America’s Cup as a “rort”. He accused Dalton’s syndicate of “selling their souls to the highest bidder”.

Waititi also reminded New Zealanders of the hundreds of millions they have already contributed to AC campaigns from tax and rate revenues over the past 20 years. Declaring that the Cup should now be “banished from our shores” he argued that the $100m would be better spent on the poor and homeless.

Those are, of course, easy points for any populist politician to make. But there’s no doubt they will resonate with New Zealanders grown weary of America’s Cup hype. The ETNZ decision to auction off hosting rights to AC37 to whichever city in the world promises to pay the most does little to enhance a sense of national pride.

The knock-on effect of Dalton’s commercial pragmatism did not take long to surface. Immediately after the 90-day negotiation window with New Zealand had closed last week the city of Valencia in southeastern Spain put its hand up to host the Cup.

But where would all the money come from in a country still emerging from the disaster of the coronavirus pandemic?

The answer is breathtaking in its cynical opportunism: Valencia proposes to finance its AC37 bid by dipping into the €750 billion fund established by the European Union to assist member countries in their recovery from the economic effects of COVID.

That strategy may not go down too well with the more than 80,000 families in Spain who have lost at least one member to the virus, including the 7,407 deaths to date in the Valencia community.

Hundreds of millions to be spent just so a handful of blow-in billionaires can enjoy a sunny Mediterranean location to play boats for a few months? That’s unlikely to attract many votes at the next Valencia municipal elections.

Meanwhile, our old friends at SailGP are savvy enough to concentrate their public relations effort on feel-good topics as a distraction from the increasing irrelevance of the event itself and the money it wastes.

Following the Taranto regatta they have now issued a 1,330-word media release that talks about everything except the sailing. We are told (in the usual hyperbolic house style), that SailGP had “used its platform for purpose to break boundaries in sustainable sport and champion a world powered by nature”.

This, they say, took the form of “local community engagement, collaborating with host city authorities to support projects delivering a positive social and environmental impact”. In practice it apparently boiled down to planting 50 poplar trees (Sir Russell planted the first one!) and drawing some power from 332 square feet of solar panels (that’s a bit more than the area of one SailGP jib).

Warming to their carbon-neutral theme, the PR flaks would have us believe that the decision to leave the TV team to produce the race coverage remotely from London rather than on-site at Taranto was “innovative” and would save “45 tonnes of CO2”.

The truth is that commentating ‘off tube’ and adding graphics and video inserts from a remote studio are common techniques that have been used by television sports broadcasters for at least 40 years. The more likely reason the SailGP production team worked from the UK rather than on location in Italy was to save Larry Ellison money on travel, accommodation and living expenses.

And, if Coutts and The Man from O.R.A.C.L.E are really so concerned about their carbon footprint, why don’t they just cancel the whole silly circus? – anarchist David.

Well, why don't they?

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I have never ever read an article from David, which is in any way positive about sailing, sail boat racing, or the yachting industry.

Makes me wonder why the fuck he bothers to turn up hereabouts. 

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7 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Forget about your personal feelings about the writer and focus on the article itself.

There is nothing positive to say about the sailing industry. It has been on life support for decades.

The Cup? It became irrelevant to the average Joe once the Swiss got their hands on it. No one gives a shit about it anymore.

 

Take this quiz:

How many production sailboats have been built and sold in the last decade?

How many sail lofts have closed their doors in the past decade?

How many hardware retailers are gone?

How many boat shows are "sail only"?

 

Last one out, turn off the lights.

What has the Cup to do with everyday sailing? 

You always needed shit loads of money to compete in the Cup. It has absolutely no meaning for a girl, boy or x in an Opti, never had. 

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6 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

I do not know your age and/or how long you have been sailing.

Regardless, both of your statements are false.

The in early days of the 12 meter boats, it did not take a "shit load of money".

As far as a kid in an opti? What planet are you from?

Certainly not from OneWorldSailing. Whats wrong with kids in Opties? 

Your error is that you think that the AC can be seen as "normal" sailing, which is wrong. If you had opened your eyes at least once in your lifetime spanning apparently 170 years, you would have seen that the syndicates were mostly consisting of robber barons, as they are today. Only 30 years were "cheap" for paupers like Alan Bond, Henry Sears, and so on. 

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5 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Nothing wrong with kids in Opti's.

If you grew up sailing as kid in the 70's and 80's, the Cup was a big deal. You were the one who said that there has never been a generation of young sailors that gave a shit.

No need for you to educate me on the history of the Cup. It has been a manipulated and crooked affair since America made its way across the pond. From there, the U.S. did anything it could to hold on to it. Both from a legal and illegal perspective.

The Cup became a shit show once we lost it. That is when it morphed from a four year gathering to an actual industry.

Apparently there was, so you're welcome. 

Thanks, now I know your motivation for your PoV. I'll leave it at that. 

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5 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

If you grew up sailing as kid in the 70's and 80's, the Cup was a big deal.

I did. It wasn't.

[quote]The Cup became a shit show once we lost it.[/quote]

We? You realise most here aren't from the USA? 

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The cup will wax and wane i its relevance depending on the enthusiasm and availability of money to chase the dream of winning it.  

Currently NZ owns the cup after one amazing challenge and one amazing defense, funded by sponsorship and the NZ government.

Two billionaires want the opportunity to win it.  Its their money.....and they can spend it on this pursuit.  The question is whether NZ has enough money for a third cup.   The TV rights etc are an interesting side show but the dream of Coutts/Ellison to turn the AC into a commercial professional sailing event which pays for itself, ended after Bermuda.  It is once again a battle between wealthy people or wealthy syndicates.

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34 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Well that makes sense.

Of course you didn't. Perhaps the reason could be attributed to the fact that the UK's has been irrelevant to the Cup since the first go around.

And the vast majority of SA members are certainly not in  NZ or your neck of the woods.

The UK has mounted some major challenges and been involved in every era of cup history .   The Early era, the J class era, the 12 meter era, the IAC era, and now the foiling era.

Unsuccesful but determined.

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31 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

And this is the root of the problem.

These folks for the lack of a better word are the "swamp".

The Cup means nothing anymore to the people who sail and the casual observer.

Let them have their orgy.

It would be pretty easy to create an alternative that would appeal to sailors and non-sailors alike. And it could be done cost effectively and not make the participants richer than the already are.

 

The Cup will do its own thing.

If it is so easy to create an alternative, why is it not happening?

Xteme Sailing series is gone.

Sail GP is drawing a lot of sailing talent but relies on substantial support. What would you do differently?

 

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41 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

And the vast majority of SA members are certainly not in  NZ or your neck of the woods.

The "vast majority of SA members" aren't in the USA either. It is 50/50 USA and elsewhere. A fun fact repeatedly asserted by SA. 

But on SAAC, the predominant nation posting here is NZ.  It has been that way the last few years, as anyone paying attention would notice.

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Every sport that's thriving today has tapped into someone else's money, whether that's corporate sponsors or dodgy Emirates or other rulers.    Premier League, Ligue 1 soccer, formula one, tennis, golf....cricket went this way 40 years ago via Kerry Packer.   In doing so, most of those sports and teams disconnected themselves from their local base as the price of survival...  

Not saying I like it, it's just how it is.   I think sailing has to do same.

I'll take issue with those who say AC is irrelevant/dead/ho-hum...this was the first AC where non-sailors would tell me how interested they were in the series.   It was probably the same back in the 1980s with Stars & Stripes, Kokkaburra (sp?), Bondie and Connor...

I'll also take issue with those who say sailing is dead/dying/life support....  Most participative sports are seeing smaller numbers (golf, tennis, sailing, baseball, soccer...you name it) as people spend more time glued to screens.   The rise of foiling of boards and boats is bringing more users and engagement, and boat manufacturers, far from dead, are pushing designs that require fewer crew...

As sailors, we need to be excited and sharing that with newbies.   If not, bugger off, stay indoors, moan to yourself.

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12 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Well that makes sense.

Of course you didn't. Perhaps the reason could be attributed to the fact that the UK's has been irrelevant to the Cup since the first go around.

And the vast majority of SA members are certainly not in  NZ or your neck of the woods.

Just proven yourself to (EDIT) have little or no knowledge of America's Cup history. (I was initially a lot less complimentary but decided to not be so cutting as you might be a minor.)

A little bit of education required my dear septic (from septic tank, rhymes with yank).

We have just seen AC36. Of those 36 Cup iterations 21 had (either as one of many, but mainly on their own) a British Challenge. So your statement that "the UK's has been irrelevant to the Cup since the first go around" is a total fiction. In fact it was the likes of Dunraven, Sopwith and Lipton that kept the Cup alive in the early part of its life.

Without the British "irrelevance", where at times early in the last century Police had to be called in to control crowds in London watching British progress across the pond the Cup would perhaps be gathering dust at the back of a NYYC trophy cabinet. 

Shit, a Brit even skippered your defender 3 times around the start of the 20th Century.

Do us all a favour and do a bit of reading before you type such rubbish.

You perhaps don't have the mental acuity to read something like "An Absorbing Interest" (the AC's definitive history) but a recent potted history on the INEOS website might give you a bit of a start.

https://ineosteamuk.americascup.com/en/articles/328_The-History-of-the-British-Challenge.html

 

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

This Article by @Editoris complete crap. It is on of the reasons Sailing Anarchy is going down the tubes at times!

Epic Fail..! Haven't you heard of anarchist David? He goes under many names or did?  Not sure why Anarchist David get's so much air time at SA? Anyway onto the matter in hand I think Grant Dalton needs to be very careful with what he has in mind? Also what percentage of Dalton's care is entrenched into the future of the team vs Financial Interests of his own or other parties? When large amounts of "MONEY" are key to the issue in question the skies become clouded and ulterior motives come into play IMO. The Americas Cup could well capitulate because of money and the impact of COVID. Dangerous times ahead for the lovers of ETNZ and the event itself.!

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The Americas Cup could well capitulate because of money and the impact of COVID. Dangerous times ahead for the lovers of ETNZ and the event itself.!

Hmmmm. Notwithstanding 5 or 6 major wars and a flu pandemic, the Old Mug has proved tolerably hardy since 1851. Just sayin.

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43 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmmm. Notwithstanding 5 or 6 major wars and a flu pandemic, the Old Mug has proved tolerably hardy since 1851. Just sayin.

True but what were the boats and their relative cost at the time.? Australia and Alan Bond would never have won the Cup if it were on AC75's and not 12 Meters?  My point is the relative cost of the AC75's in today's COVID affected economy. 

P.S. I hope you are right SBD..!

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51 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmmm. Notwithstanding 5 or 6 major wars and a flu pandemic, the Old Mug has proved tolerably hardy since 1851. Just sayin.

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

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17 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

That's LE not AC...

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5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmmm. Notwithstanding 5 or 6 major wars and a flu pandemic, the Old Mug has proved tolerably hardy since 1851. Just sayin.

There has however been a 21 year gap where there were no challengers and the cup went dormant for 2 decades.  If not for Henry Sears and the Royal Yacht Squadron, it might have lain dormant for a long time.

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

True but what were the boats and their relative cost at the time.? Australia and Alan Bond would never have won the Cup if it were on AC75's and not 12 Meters?  My point is the relative cost of the AC75's in today's COVID affected economy. 

P.S. I hope you are right SBD..!

The ultrarich in America got even richer during covid.  Not surprised if that's true of other countries, too.  Jeff Bezos is going into space ffs. 

Problem for "covid affected economy" is if you want money from venues and governments.  If you just let billionaires not looking to break even play their 1 on 1 games, no money issue.

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On 6/21/2021 at 6:14 AM, Rennmaus said:

What has the Cup to do with everyday sailing? 

You always needed shit loads of money to compete in the Cup. It has absolutely no meaning for a girl, boy or x in an Opti, never had. 

You know, people like me keep saying that the Cup is no longer relatable and people like you keep saying "it's never had anything to do with the average sailor."

OK, sure, BUT...

In 1920 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 1960 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 1980 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 2007 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 2021 the average adult sailor is sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup is sailing foilers.

Whether by design or not, it's an objective fact that the America's Cup used to be more relatable to average sailors.

While the America's Cup has always been dominated by wealthy patrons, it's now moved into a regime of sailing where there rest of us - and I hate to sound like certain politicians here - are getting left behind. Most of us can barely afford to field a club racing program in a 30+ year old keelboat, but at least when the Cup was in keelboats we were watching people operate the boat in fundamentally the same way as our own boats.

If the America's Cup is to represent "progress, and damn everything else," then fine, but I really think that the Cup is worse off for losing its relatability to the form of the sport that most of us play. I mean, if the Rugby World Cup switched to American Football in the name of progress and money, wouldn't at least a few Kiwis be upset? Sure, it's fun to watch, and it's still a game played on a rectangular field where two teams try to advance an oblong ball towards the end of the field, but it's fundamentally not the same game you grew up playing on the schoolyard.

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8 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

You know, people like me keep saying that the Cup is no longer relatable and people like you keep saying "it's never had anything to do with the average sailor."

OK, sure, BUT...

In 1920 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 1960 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 1980 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 2007 the average adult sailor was sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup was sailing displacement keelboats.

In 2021 the average adult sailor is sailing a displacement keelboat. The America's Cup is sailing foilers.

Whether by design or not, it's an objective fact that the America's Cup used to be more relatable to average sailors.

While the America's Cup has always been dominated by wealthy patrons, it's now moved into a regime of sailing where there rest of us - and I hate to sound like certain politicians here - are getting left behind. Most of us can barely afford to field a club racing program in a 30+ year old keelboat, but at least when the Cup was in keelboats we were watching people operate the boat in fundamentally the same way as our own boats.

If the America's Cup is to represent "progress, and damn everything else," then fine, but I really think that the Cup is worse off for losing its relatability to the form of the sport that most of us play. I mean, if the Rugby World Cup switched to American Football in the name of progress and money, wouldn't at least a few Kiwis be upset? Sure, it's fun to watch, and it's still a game played on a rectangular field where two teams try to advance an oblong ball towards the end of the field, but it's fundamentally not the same game you grew up playing on the schoolyard.

You are taking my post above and put it into a different context as it was written for. A nice rhetoric trick, but too obvious. 

I'll explain anyway to avoid further misunderstandings. 

I agree with you regarding the kind of boat, but not the circumstances. The "normal sailor's" Wednesday night regatta has nothing to do with a regatta for the America's Cup. Almost never had. Buying an Opti or even a day cruiser is a completely different matter than building an AC boat. These are two separate worlds. 

Even the regulations differ, with the AC having its own set of RRS. 

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

You are taking my post above and put it into a different context as it was written for. A nice rhetoric trick, but too obvious. 

I'll explain anyway to avoid further misunderstandings. 

I agree with you regarding the kind of boat, but not the circumstances. The "normal sailor's" Wednesday night regatta has nothing to do with a regatta for the America's Cup. Almost never had. Buying an Opti or even a day cruiser is a completely different matter than building an AC boat. These are two separate worlds. 

Even the regulations differ, with the AC having its own set of RRS. 

I'll admit I took the above posts slightly out of order, as the discussion quickly shifted to 12 Meter nostalgia, hence me chiming in on boat type.

Nevertheless, I still disagree. It used to have more to do with the "normal sailor." For example, I just got into organized match racing and really love it. Once upon a time match racing had the AC as its apex. You could watch the IACCs duking it out and basically be watching an advanced form of the same regatta that you're doing at the amateur level in borrowed Sonars. Nowadays it's unrecognizable. You'll have a rare mildly close port/starboard and the commentators all say "Look! Match racing!"

The boat type doesn't take all of the blame but it's a big part of it. You mention the RRS. The AC used to have very few differences with the rules and courses we all sail by. The changes we've seen have largely been driven by boats that are too fast for the normal rules to apply.

I agree that a Cup campaign is unlike any other sailing pursuit from an organizational perspective, but even there the delta from the Corinthian level has grown so much. In the 12 Meter era the full-time campaign was a few months, and it was really just a supercharged version of any other high-dollar sailing campaign. Some people sponsored offshore boats, others threw their money at Cup campaigns. Heck, there were even some owner/drivers as late as the '80s. Now it's an extremely specialized, multiyear ordeal. I don't know how to put that genie back away. Maybe we can just wait until the Cup implodes under its own weight, then start over.

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10 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Epic Fail..! Haven't you heard of anarchist David? He goes under many names or did?  Not sure why Anarchist David get's so much air time at SA? Anyway onto the matter in hand I think Grant Dalton needs to be very careful with what he has in mind? Also what percentage of Dalton's care is entrenched into the future of the team vs Financial Interests of his own or other parties? When large amounts of "MONEY" are key to the issue in question the skies become clouded and ulterior motives come into play IMO. The Americas Cup could well capitulate because of money and the impact of COVID. Dangerous times ahead for the lovers of ETNZ and the event itself.!

There is nothing dangerous what Grant Dalton is doing! He is doing what's best for the Team.

And to be quite frank Auckland isn't that great of a Venue either. What we have seen during AC36 is that the most likely Wind Direction in the NZ Summer is Northeasterly Sea Breezes and those winds barely pop over 15 knots. Most of the time it was well below 10 knots. I want to see these Boats ripping in 15-20 knots to show the world what they can do. Even Pete Burling, Glenn Ashby said that this was their big regret.

The 2nd Major Talking Point should be the TV Audience. Having to stay up in the middle of the Night is no good at all and having two European Teams competing Europe is a big Market!

Cowes would be the perfect Venue. There is always reasonable strong wind in the Summer because of Weather Systems hopping over the UK.

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43 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

I'll admit I took the above posts slightly out of order, as the discussion quickly shifted to 12 Meter nostalgia, hence me chiming in on boat type.

Nevertheless, I still disagree. It used to have more to do with the "normal sailor." For example, I just got into organized match racing and really love it. Once upon a time match racing had the AC as its apex. You could watch the IACCs duking it out and basically be watching an advanced form of the same regatta that you're doing at the amateur level in borrowed Sonars. Nowadays it's unrecognizable. You'll have a rare mildly close port/starboard and the commentators all say "Look! Match racing!"

The boat type doesn't take all of the blame but it's a big part of it. You mention the RRS. The AC used to have very few differences with the rules and courses we all sail by. The changes we've seen have largely been driven by boats that are too fast for the normal rules to apply.

I agree that a Cup campaign is unlike any other sailing pursuit from an organizational perspective, but even there the delta from the Corinthian level has grown so much. In the 12 Meter era the full-time campaign was a few months, and it was really just a supercharged version of any other high-dollar sailing campaign. Some people sponsored offshore boats, others threw their money at Cup campaigns. Heck, there were even some owner/drivers as late as the '80s. Now it's an extremely specialized, multiyear ordeal. I don't know how to put that genie back away. Maybe we can just wait until the Cup implodes under its own weight, then start over.

You're not wrong, but this post might interest you:

Nevertheless I still think that the AC plays in a completely different league than your round-the-cans regatta. Both are not comparable, or was your "normal sailor" a millionaire in the days of yore, or is a billionaire now? 

I even think that if the AC had never existed, almost all other sailing would be here regardless. 

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2 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

In 2021 the average adult sailor is sailing a displacement keelboat.

That may be true in the USA. It isn't the case in the UK; the average adult sailor is in dinghies. I suspect the same is true in most places.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Cowes would be the perfect Venue. There is always reasonable strong wind in the Summer because of Weather Systems hopping over the UK.

We'll add Solent winds to the list of subjects you pontificate on from a position of ignorance then.

And I speak as someone who would love to see them on the solent

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2 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

That may be true in the USA. It isn't the case in the UK; the average adult sailor is in dinghies. I suspect the same is true in most places.

This @Sisu3360. And also the 12ms bore no relationship to most keelboats. Certainly nothing since the 80s, less still modern LDBs.

plus if that relationship were important F1 would be in Ford Escorts. There are plenty of regattas in keelboats at all levels, just as there are touring car championships, the AC should be different

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Cowes would be the perfect Venue. There is always reasonable strong wind in the Summer because of Weather Systems hopping over the UK.

Always, no. It can be windless in summer for days on end. I've done at least one Cowes Week when we failed to race several days in a row. But mostly there is wind.

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11 hours ago, dogwatch said:

It is a certainty that one day the AC will end. All human enterprises end. The only debate is: how soon?

I can pretty much be sure it will outlast me, so I'm alright, Jack (aka dogwatch). ;-)

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8 minutes ago, Timur said:

Does one drink Fiji Bitter at room temp?

Only if you like English piss...

Obviously, I'm a proper Fiji Bitter shill !

And I even look a bit bitter and cold too.

358008260_images(2).jpeg.a838f74914187e36809c2091098005a0.jpeg

Cheers.

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Never got that impression, Dogwatch is a way too proper Pommie.

But how would I know. :rolleyes:

 

What? No dissing intended. Just a colloquial play on words. Doggie's OK.

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

What? No dissing intended. Just a colloquial play on words. Doggie's OK.

None taken.

There's a belief that the AC will go on forever because it's lasted a long time. But major sailing fixtures all over have come to an end. It's easy to enumerate examples from the USA and UK. UK sailing was more invested in the Admiral's Cup than the America's Cup, yet it has gone and despite all efforts to reinvent it, nobody now believes it is coming back. I don't buy into the idea that the AC is exempt. Not, anyway, into the full-time career option that it has become. Consider, for instance, the fact that none of the $Bs who fund the circus are exactly spring chickens and there's little sign of a younger generation of backers taking an interest. Perhaps the AC will re-invent itself as something closer to what it was in the 12m era. I mean in terms of scale and the time periods over which campaigns were active, not the boats. That, IMO,  would not be such a  bad thing. 

Anyway, I know I won't convince the true believers. Out.

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On 6/23/2021 at 6:24 PM, dogwatch said:

None taken.

There's a belief that the AC will go on forever because it's lasted a long time. But major sailing fixtures all over have come to an end. It's easy to enumerate examples from the USA and UK. UK sailing was more invested in the Admiral's Cup than the America's Cup, yet it has gone and despite all efforts to reinvent it, nobody now believes it is coming back. I don't buy into the idea that the AC is exempt. Not, anyway, into the full-time career option that it has become. Consider, for instance, the fact that none of the $Bs who fund the circus are exactly spring chickens and there's little sign of a younger generation of backers taking an interest. Perhaps the AC will re-invent itself as something closer to what it was in the 12m era. I mean in terms of scale and the time periods over which campaigns were active, not the boats. That, IMO,  would not be such a  bad thing. 

Anyway, I know I won't convince the true believers. Out.

Being a challenge cup it can just go dormant, but never disappear. The full time career model it has been become, as you say, unlikely to survive.

Which may be a good thing.

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22 hours ago, Gissie said:

Being a challenge cup it can just go dormant, but never disappear. The full time career model it has been become, as you say, unlikely to survive.

Which may be a good thing.

Easier for the RNZYS to keep it 132 years if they kill it.

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