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How is it that HOAs boss people around in freedom loving USA?


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I honestly don't understand this phenomena. I've heard of a neighborhood where you can't put a for sale sign in front of your house, you hang a wreath on the door like it's Christmas if you want to sell. 

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35 minutes ago, spankoka said:

I honestly don't understand this phenomena. I've heard of a neighborhood where you can't put a for sale sign in front of your house, you hang a wreath on the door like it's Christmas if you want to sell. 

When did yanks become “freedom loving Americans “?

Thats News to me. It is all but impossible to leave ones house in this country without breaking one law or another or to have big brother take your picture.

That dear readers is not freedom.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

When did yanks become “freedom loving Americans “?

Thats News to me. It is all but impossible to leave ones house in this country without breaking one law or another or to have big brother take your picture.

That dear readers is not freedom.

 

No, it's technology.

Cameras have become cheap and plentiful, anybody and everybody is taking your picture. Governments are the least offensive in this regard.

Or, you can make cameras illegal, that would be freedom, huh?

- DSK

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7 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

When did yanks become “freedom loving Americans “?

Thats News to me. It is all but impossible to leave ones house in this country without breaking one law or another or to have big brother take your picture.

That dear readers is not freedom.

 

You might want to read my response again.

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, it's technology.

Cameras have become cheap and plentiful, anybody and everybody is taking your picture. Governments are the least offensive in this regard.

Or, you can make cameras illegal, that would be freedom, huh?

- DSK

 

I’m not suggesting that the average yank can’t take my picture on public property, but the government?
Nah!
They should respect the constitution. You know the part about “unreasonable search and seizure “

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You might want to read my response again.

I make a point of not stooping to the levels of stupidity that you always rise to so I tend not to be bothered reading your posts unless as in this case you quote me. And even then it tends to be an exercise in futility.

 

 

 

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In an apartment or condo, I can see why there are a bunch of rules. I don't get why you take out a mortgage to buy your own single family home and then people micromanage you. However, I guess people know the rules when they buy if they have done due diligence. 

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7 minutes ago, spankoka said:

In an apartment or condo, I can see why there are a bunch of rules. I don't get why you take out a mortgage to buy your own single family home and then people micromanage you. However, I guess people know the rules when they buy if they have done due diligence. 

Some HOA's are part of a planned development, like Irvine, CA.They do that to keep things nice. Once in a while you may find a homeowner who wants a bright purple door on a pastel painted home, or decides to install artificial turf because they got tired of paying a gardener.

I have a friend who lives in a gated oceanfront community, and he pays $50 a month to cover security cost. A few years ago, I went looking at a house in Lake Tahoe, the home was priced fairly but the HOA wanted $60,000 a year. I cannot imagine the difficulty of selling a home with that kind of hitch.

The biggest problem is electing the wrong type of person to the board. I remember 15 or 20. years ago a retired college professor became a hoarder, rather than deal with it sympathetically, they went to court and seized the house using HOA contract language. Houses in her neighborhood ran about a million, so you can understand the financial damage the HOA did to her. Whatever she ended up with was minus large attorneys fees. Homes in that area today run three to ten million.

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OK, fair enough-run for the board if you don't like what is going on. That answers my question. Gated communities are considered an abonimation in Canada, but I can see the point that it is not much different from a condo building having a concierge. 

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1 hour ago, spankoka said:

OK, fair enough-run for the board if you don't like what is going on. That answers my question. Gated communities are considered an abonimation in Canada, but I can see the point that it is not much different from a condo building having a concierge. 

Or better still move into a community where you don't have overbearing micromanagement and people obsessed with rules, life is too short for that level of bullshit.

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Just now, spankoka said:

Move into a high-end Vancouver condo and you will have everything from trick-pads to stash houses close by, thanks to Airbnb and absentee landlords. 

And possibly an illegal casino upstairs.

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28 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

I bet their meetings have nice sandwiches.

They had staff intercept your boat and move it to your slip, washed it down and prepare it for your next outing. Call the clubhouse and order your breakfast have it delivered or it will be ready when you arrive. I can't remember everything they offered, but I do remember wanting to get out of there fast.

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42 minutes ago, hobie1616 said:

HOAs are carbuncles on the big ass of life.

Sometimes, yes, my friend at the ocean loved the fact that it was gated. parking at any beach in SoCal is hard to find, keeping a fence up keeps hundreds of cars from driving up and down your street looking for an available spot to park. 

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23 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

And possibly an illegal casino upstairs.

Even the gangsters give the bodyguards of Saudi entourages a wide berth. The Saudis probably get the impression that Vancouver has lots of criminals, given that they rent in the same buildings criminals do. If they rented in cheaper builders, the suites would be more likely to be owner occupied and thus not gangster's lairs. 

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32 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

They had staff intercept your boat and move it to your slip, washed it down and prepare it for your next outing. Call the clubhouse and order your breakfast have it delivered or it will be ready when you arrive. I can't remember everything they offered, but I do remember wanting to get out of there fast.

You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

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HOAs can be good or bad, as can gated communities. Do you really want your neighbors setting up a used dump truck repair and recycling operation in their front yard? Do you want your neighborhood streets to become RV and boat storage areas with barely enough room to squeeze a car by?

They also can go very far overboard, see the infamous Florida "Condo Commandos" :rolleyes: We looked at a house once in which the HOA had a rule that no dogs could be in your house in the summer and they had a big kennel where all the dogs were supposed to live. Also all the houses had to be same color. We told the real estate agent to please get us out of there!

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I Just sold  a villa in a HOA/POA, In many cases they take you rights as an American, Probable the most important is "Freedom of Speech"  what size flag and what it says, What color curtains on your windows, type year, color , model and make of your car, what plants you can plant .Also they can search the inside of your house and seize any items they don't feel fits in there Assc.. They can put a lean on your property and throw you out for unpaid fines.  Luckily I sold , but even after closing I was send notices for unpaid dues. They make Hitler look like a nice guy!

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4 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

I Just sold  a villa in a HOA/POA, In many cases they take you rights as an American, Probable the most important is "Freedom of Speech"  what size flag and what it says, What color curtains on your windows, type year, color , model and make of your car, what plants you can plant .Also they can search the inside of your house and seize any items they don't feel fits in there Assc.. They can put a lean on your property and throw you out for unpaid fines.  Luckily I sold , but even after closing I was send notices for unpaid dues. They make Hitler look like a nice guy!

That sounds insane!

What ours does here is mainly keep the beach, pool, and marina maintained. I think it costs us $250/yr per household. They will bitch if you let your yard grow 3 feet high or if you start a junk car collection out in the road. That is about it, I think we get our money's worth.

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Gated communities are the very antithesis of the  . . 

"we're all in this together"  ..  

spirit. 

But we are NOT "all in this together". If random strangers have a huge party on our beach and trash the place, they don't have to pay to deal with it, we do. Once you have things like pools and beaches that are "attractive nuisances" in legal terms, you will have endless financial and legal problems if you let the general public just have at it.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:
6 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Gated communities are the very antithesis of the  . . 

"we're all in this together"  ..  

spirit. 

But we are NOT "all in this together". If random strangers have a huge party on our beach and trash the place, they don't have to pay to deal with it, we do. Once you have things like pools and beaches that are "attractive nuisances" in legal terms, you will have endless financial and legal problems if you let the general public just have at it.

Yep, first step is to define "we."

Don't like HOA/POA's then don't buy a house in one. OTOH if you don't like zoning, building codes, utilities, roads, access to water, etc etc... everywhere has some bureaucrat telling what to do! Doncha hate it?

Having a relatively nice home with some assurance that the neighborhood/community will stay nice, or even stay viable and livable, is better than having some assholes ruin it.

- DSK

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6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yep, first step is to define "we."

Don't like HOA/POA's then don't buy a house in one. OTOH if you don't like zoning, building codes, utilities, roads, access to water, etc etc... everywhere has some bureaucrat telling what to do! Doncha hate it?

Having a relatively nice home with some assurance that the neighborhood/community will stay nice, or even stay viable and livable, is better than having some assholes ruin it.

- DSK

This ^

Read all about the HOA, covenants, and restrictions first, buy second. If you want to have a mini junkyard on your property, move someplace where everyone is cool with that ;)

* note some covenants are not enforceable, some houses around here have things like "Can not be sold to Jews or Negroes" dating way back that obviously are null and void now.

 

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You sign a contract when you buy the house.  Don't read the fine print, that's your problem. It's private not government. 

I line in a HOA free zone.  I am watching 6-10 Duck Dynasty folk move into the 3 BR rental across the street.  They bring their stuff in by homemade wooden trailer.  One of the first loads included about 8 ammunition boxes.  Now maybe that's how they store diapers and books but I am not reassured. I wish I had taken a photo. 

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4 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

I Just sold  a villa in a HOA/POA, In many cases they take you rights as an American, Probable the most important is "Freedom of Speech"  what size flag and what it says, What color curtains on your windows, type year, color , model and make of your car, what plants you can plant .Also they can search the inside of your house and seize any items they don't feel fits in there Assc.. They can put a lean on your property and throw you out for unpaid fines.  Luckily I sold , but even after closing I was send notices for unpaid dues. They make Hitler look like a nice guy!

In my area we have city bylaws and inspectors to enforce them. It can take some time to force compliance for unsightly yards, but it does get done. Running auto repair or such gets dealt with much quicker, someone blocking access is dealt with very quickly, within the hour mostly. It works.

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People buy homes in HOA's to get away from city regs and codes, not realizing that 

they have just added another layer of govt. to their lives with the association. (same with condo's) 

Lots of HOA's are moving toward their own privatized police, fire, water/sewer, schools, libraries and more. 

They are bailing on the country which I see as a problem. 

 Nationally, 61% of new single-family houses completed were in a HOA, up from 46% in 2009. There has been a 2% increase since 2016, when 59% of new single-family houses completed were administered by a homeowners' association.Aug 1, 2018

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13 hours ago, spankoka said:

I honestly don't understand this phenomena. I've heard of a neighborhood where you can't put a for sale sign in front of your house, you hang a wreath on the door like it's Christmas if you want to sell. 

 
An HOA is generally an unincorporated association empowered to enforce the restrictive covenants and condo document provisions that every prospective homeowner has every opportunity to review prior to purchase.  There is ample notice of the restrictions and if you live there, you specifically chose to submit to the HOA. 
 

so which part don’t you understand?

 

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22 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

People buy homes in HOA's to get away from city regs and codes, not realizing that 

they have just added another layer of govt. to their lives with the association. (same with condo's) 

Lots of HOA's are moving toward their own privatized police, fire, water/sewer, schools, libraries and more. 

They are bailing on the country which I see as a problem. 

 Nationally, 61% of new single-family houses completed were in a HOA, up from 46% in 2009. There has been a 2% increase since 2016, when 59% of new single-family houses completed were administered by a homeowners' association.Aug 1, 2018

Say what????????????????

HOAs do not magically exempt you from local zoning laws. Most people that want HOAs, as opposed to tolerating them, are there for STRICTER codes, not getting away from regulations. The last place I lived the roads and water system were private, we maintained both of them. This is not especially unusual, if you are far from municipal water pipes you can band together and drill one big well or tell everyone they are on their own to drill one per house. Also when the community was built long ago the local government was not at all interested in building roads there, so it was DIY or drive on dirt trails in the woods.

I have never ever heard of anyplace building their own school system nor police nor fire department. Well I take that back on the school, Gibson Island has a private elementary school on the island, but that is exceedingly rare. Likewise with police, some neighborhoods might have a security guard or two, but that is not the same thing. Maybe there is someplace with actual police departments? That would seem expensive. We pay the local off-duty deputies to drive around on the weekends and keep the juvenile delinquents down to a dull roar and chase non-residents off the beach, but they are still sworn law enforcement officers, not really a private police force.

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Say what????????????????

HOAs do not magically exempt you from local zoning laws. Most people that want HOAs, as opposed to tolerating them, are there for STRICTER codes, not getting away from regulations. The last place I lived the roads and water system were private, we maintained both of them. This is not especially unusual, if you are far from municipal water pipes you can band together and drill one big well or tell everyone they are on their own to drill one per house. Also when the community was built long ago the local government was not at all interested in building roads there, so it was DIY or drive on dirt trails in the woods.

I have never ever heard of anyplace building their own school system nor police nor fire department. Well I take that back on the school, Gibson Island has a private elementary school on the island, but that is exceedingly rare. Some neighborhoods might have a security guard or two, but that is not the same thing. Maybe there is someplace with actual police departments? That would seem exceedingly expensive.

I loved anchoring off that tiny island near Gibson Island.  

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25 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

People buy homes in HOA's to get away from city regs and codes, not realizing that 

they have just added another layer of govt. to their lives with the association. (same with condo's) 

Lots of HOA's are moving toward their own privatized police, fire, water/sewer, schools, libraries and more. 

They are bailing on the country which I see as a problem. 

 Nationally, 61% of new single-family houses completed were in a HOA, up from 46% in 2009. There has been a 2% increase since 2016, when 59% of new single-family houses completed were administered by a homeowners' association.Aug 1, 2018

Interesting , If they become their own voting block , ( for government officials) can they become their own electoral college taking away your right to vote?

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5 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

I Just sold  a villa in a HOA/POA, In many cases they take you rights as an American, Probable the most important is "Freedom of Speech"  what size flag and what it says, What color curtains on your windows, type year, color , model and make of your car, what plants you can plant .Also they can search the inside of your house and seize any items they don't feel fits in there Assc.. They can put a lean on your property and throw you out for unpaid fines.  Luckily I sold , but even after closing I was send notices for unpaid dues. They make Hitler look like a nice guy!

Did you not read the bylaws/covenants before you bought the property? 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Did you not read the bylaws/covenants before you bought the property? 

Apparently not. I have never heard of anything like those restrictions, how could one be taken by surprise by something that sounds like a prison camp? If these rules were NOT presented to a prospective homeowner before purchase a good lawyer would have a field day suing the shit out of various people.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Did you not read the bylaws/covenants before you bought the property? 

reading "bible" would have been faster ,I rented in one HOA for 14 years not a problem, when I brought it was the start of Covid shut down , so things happened fast, I guess the start was a curtain issue ( which was up for 1 day), why didn't some one knock on the door with the problem , instead I get 2 texts 3 phone calls an email  and an 8x10 glossy letter from the POA, not a neighbor. A couple other small issues, then they raised an assessment 200 a month for painting some planters and other bullshit items, if you were part of the click you got special treatment, Luckily for me I was able to sell at a 20% profit after 11 months there. So I ended up ok on the deal The new place I'm in I'm saving about 500+ a month,

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11 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:
14 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Did you not read the bylaws/covenants before you bought the property? 

Apparently not. I have never heard of anything like those restrictions, how could one be taken by surprise by something that sounds like a prison camp? If these rules were NOT presented to a prospective homeowner before purchase a good lawyer would have a field day suing the shit out of various people.

I'm sure it varies state to state. Here in NC, HOA/POAs have quite strong powers to enforce their charters; failure to read the rules is on the home owner. You would have to prove that the POA did not actually follow it's own rules, but the most common outcome is 'bye bye sweetheart.'  Our POA made a sweep of long time offenders and ended up owning 600 properties in this community. Formed a new committee to weight best options for each of them; with regard to not flooding the local real estate market which was weak at the time. All sold off now.

It's amazing what people assume. Free water & sewer? Sorry, we don't have those here, and yes our POA built the water plant. This is a big complaint from new home owners, apparently a large percentage of America just has clean water appear magically any time you open the faucet. There's no yard debris fairy here either, pile all the stuff you want by the curb, it will sit there until either you or somebody you hire takes it to the dump (which grinds and recycles it, so that's good at least).

The POA here also has security guards from a company, which is annoying.... they are constantly telling us everything they are NOT responsible for and they are expensive (2nd biggest budget item, after roads). The guards used to be residents (benefit of a high retiree population) and deputized, yes they could give speeding tickets and even arrest people.

 

3 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

reading "bible" would have been faster ,I rented in one HOA for 14 years not a problem, when I brought it was the start of Covid shut down , so things happened fast, I guess the start was a curtain issue ( which was up for 1 day), why didn't some one knock on the door with the problem , instead I get 2 texts 3 phone calls an email  and an 8x10 glossy letter from the POA, not a neighbor. A couple other small issues, then they raised an assessment 200 a month for painting some planters and other bullshit items, if you were part of the click you got special treatment, Luckily for me I was able to sell at a 20% profit after 11 months there. So I ended up ok on the deal The new place I'm in I'm saving about 500+ a month,

Here, everything is done by volunteers. The POA is elected, so if you don't like something, run for the Board. Or volunteer for the committee that oversees the thing you don't like. No "click" involved although it's true that people who like to boss others seem to gravitate toward wanting to be on the Board... they seem to mostly shy away from the actual work involved, though.

It's good that POAs have such an evil reputation, I'd hate it if this place got too crowded.

- DSK

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7 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

reading "bible" would have been faster ,I rented in one HOA for 14 years not a problem, when I brought it was the start of Covid shut down , so things happened fast, I guess the start was a curtain issue ( which was up for 1 day), why didn't some one knock on the door with the problem , instead I get 2 texts 3 phone calls an email  and an 8x10 glossy letter from the POA, not a neighbor. A couple other small issues, then they raised an assessment 200 a month for painting some planters and other bullshit items, if you were part of the click you got special treatment, Luckily for me I was able to sell at a 20% profit after 11 months there. So I ended up ok on the deal The new place I'm in I'm saving about 500+ a month,

A month??? This place would riot at $500 a YEAR.

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm sure it varies state to state. Here in NC, HOA/POAs have quite strong powers to enforce their charters; failure to read the rules is on the home owner. You would have to prove that the POA did not actually follow it's own rules, but the most common outcome is 'bye bye sweetheart.'  Our POA made a sweep of long time offenders and ended up owning 600 properties in this community. Formed a new committee to weight best options for each of them; with regard to not flooding the local real estate market which was weak at the time. All sold off now.

It's amazing what people assume. Free water & sewer? Sorry, we don't have those here, and yes our POA built the water plant. This is a big complaint from new home owners, apparently a large percentage of America just has clean water appear magically any time you open the faucet. There's no yard debris fairy here either, pile all the stuff you want by the curb, it will sit there until either you or somebody you hire takes it to the dump (which grinds and recycles it, so that's good at least).

The POA here also has security guards from a company, which is annoying.... they are constantly telling us everything they are NOT responsible for and they are expensive (2nd biggest budget item, after roads). The guards used to be residents (benefit of a high retiree population) and deputized, yes they could give speeding tickets and even arrest people.

 

Here, everything is done by volunteers. The POA is elected, so if you don't like something, run for the Board. Or volunteer for the committee that oversees the thing you don't like. No "click" involved although it's true that people who like to boss others seem to gravitate toward wanting to be on the Board... they seem to mostly shy away from the actual work involved, though.

It's good that POAs have such an evil reputation, I'd hate it if this place got too crowded.

- DSK

My point was if someone bought a house and at no time was any HOA mentioned nor rules presented, they would have a great legal case. If they just didn't bother reading it, well that is just tough luck.

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33 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Say what????????????????

HOAs do not magically exempt you from local zoning laws. Most people that want HOAs, as opposed to tolerating them, are there for STRICTER codes, not getting away from regulations. The last place I lived the roads and water system were private, we maintained both of them. This is not especially unusual, if you are far from municipal water pipes you can band together and drill one big well or tell everyone they are on their own to drill one per house. Also when the community was built long ago the local government was not at all interested in building roads there, so it was DIY or drive on dirt trails in the woods.

I have never ever heard of anyplace building their own school system nor police nor fire department. Well I take that back on the school, Gibson Island has a private elementary school on the island, but that is exceedingly rare. Likewise with police, some neighborhoods might have a security guard or two, but that is not the same thing. Maybe there is someplace with actual police departments? That would seem expensive. We pay the local off-duty deputies to drive around on the weekends and keep the juvenile delinquents down to a dull roar and chase non-residents off the beach, but they are still sworn law enforcement officers, not really a private police force.

Well, Out here in the land of open spaces, Oakwood homes etc are building "Communities" in bumfuck nowhere..  So out by DIA..  Yes Out there..  Reunion is a Massive development that is touting Schools, FD, Cops etc, all within their "Footprint"..  The whole place is HOA controlled and they are building out the Grociery/retail spaces now.  These massive companies are literally buying the land cheap and doing whatever the fuck they want as they install their board members on the local boards.  These towns were tiny unincorporated towns, the mayor was like a dog, so the corp just basically takes over, town goes away, maybe they keep the town name and the old jail from the 1830's as their "Town square" or something.  That kind of thing...  No way in hell I would live like that...  The housing crunch out here is driving new home buyers out there in droves as nothing within 15 sq miles of downtown is affordable for families starting out.  It will calm down at some point as people realize that it is going to be 120 degrees in the shade out there in the summer, No fire danger though, cause there are no trees...  

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

My point was if someone bought a house and at no time was any HOA mentioned nor rules presented, they would have a great legal case. If they just didn't bother reading it, well that is just tough luck.

Nope, it's not up to the HOA to make sure everybody who buys property knows the rules. Hell, they don't even give out the book. Fucker costs about $4 to print out.... I think they will email you the file as either a doc or PDF but you have to ask.

Due Diligence... caveat emptor.

It happens, this year there seems to be a bumper crop of new owners who are finding this out. Most are not too unhappy, some even pitch in nicely. Bigger problem is bitchy renters and AirBnB's. We're arguing about whether current DoRs cover it, or if we need a new rule. The proposal is to require insurance, and to provide a standard notice to renters; nothing worse.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Clove Hitch said:

I loved anchoring off that tiny island near Gibson Island.  

We were invited to visit and stay for a while on Gibson Island by a fellow sailor in Vets For Peace. 

The island is apparently the second most wealthy zip code in the country. 

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 
so which part don’t you understand?

 

Why people work hard to make a down payment so they can own their own home, only to be told what to do like they are a mere renter. I guess it's just a different culture in Canada where people buy a home so they can paint it the color they want or whatever. 

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3 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

You sign a contract when you buy the house.  Don't read the fine print, that's your problem. It's private not government. 

I line in a HOA free zone.  I am watching 6-10 Duck Dynasty folk move into the 3 BR rental across the street.  They bring their stuff in by homemade wooden trailer.  One of the first loads included about 8 ammunition boxes.  Now maybe that's how they store diapers and books but I am not reassured. I wish I had taken a photo. 

When I was a teenager the folks moved into a foreclosure, vacant for over a year, in a neighborhood where cars with primer and non Caucasians were supposed to leave by sundown.  I had a 7 colored Buick.    We did most of the moving ourselves with a friend's farm trailer attached to a sedan.   My dad liked his straw hat and bib coveralls when doing heavy work himself, the house needed a lot of heavy work.    I'm sure the neighbors were terrified.

I have a trailer sailor in front of the house for a couple weeks early every spring and late fall getting cleaned, waxed, charged and repaired.   It also sits in the drive for a few days every summer, fitting out for a 'cruise'.   My daily driver is left out during the summer so the 45 year old dinghy can sit safe in the garage (I like it more).    Occasionally a canoe sits on the corner of the back yard fence.   I would never live somewhere with an anti boating HOA.  I accept the neighbor has a mansion on wheels parked in front of the house between travels and a Trump flag still hangs from his porch.   The guy across the street has an utility trailer next to the garage.   The next street over decided monoculture lawn isn't for him, the entire front yard is a slightly jungle like garden.  Who cares? 

My mother's HOA entertains itself battling a legal CBD farm nearby.   The crime it brought was teenagers trying to steal marijuana and some sort of a gun incident.   (Their own kids were the criminals).   They also fought off a megachurch that had plans for an adjacent sports complex.   That one may have been legitimate, since the loudspeakers would have been audible a long distance.   

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nope, it's not up to the HOA to make sure everybody who buys property knows the rules. Hell, they don't even give out the book. Fucker costs about $4 to print out.... I think they will email you the file as either a doc or PDF but you have to ask.

Due Diligence... caveat emptor.

It happens, this year there seems to be a bumper crop of new owners who are finding this out. Most are not too unhappy, some even pitch in nicely. Bigger problem is bitchy renters and AirBnB's. We're arguing about whether current DoRs cover it, or if we need a new rule. The proposal is to require insurance, and to provide a standard notice to renters; nothing worse.

- DSK

More the responsibility of the seller as this needs to be brought forward in the disclosures in the property transfer.  Speaking from my experience, the CBRE is pretty adamant about this and there needs to be a printed copy presented to the buyer as full disclosure prior to title transfer - usually means two copies as one will reside with either the title or escrow company.

When I did the real estate thing I was told to make certain that "predicated on property inspection and thorough review HOA CC&Rs" was included in the offer.

My dealing with them in the past has been pretty good as they had some good things going and were a sensible group of folks  Sometimes annoying yes, but nothing like dealing the the Historical Society. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Ventucky Red said:

More the responsibility of the seller as this needs to be brought forward in the disclosures in the property transfer.  Speaking from my experience, the CBRE is pretty adamant about this and there needs to be a printed copy presented to the buyer as full disclosure prior to title transfer - usually means two copies as one will reside with either the title or escrow company.

When I did the real estate thing I was told to make certain that "predicated on property inspection and thorough review HOA CC&Rs" was included in the offer.

My dealing with them in the past has been pretty good as they had some good things going and were a sensible group of folks  Sometimes annoying yes, but nothing like dealing the the Historical Society. 

 

Sounds very reasonable. We already knew our current home was in an HOA/POA and there were in fact several lawsuits active against it. Without going into too much detail, we sought out a lawyer with a good rep to handle our closing, disclosure, and we also escrowed part of our HOA/POA fees pending settlement of one of the lawsuits. We got a very good summary of our restrictions & covenants and the powers of this particular POA... which include foreclosing on an owner's property under some circumstances.

Since then, I've been active in the running of the place, with regard for stewardship and foresight. Right now I am on the committee overseeing road work, our largest budget item.

It seems like a silly expectation that the world should be run for one's own benefit. Getting involved in the community and in politics is the only way to avoid serfdom IMHO whether one lives in an HOA/POA or not, where-ever.

- DSK

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25 minutes ago, Lark said:

When I was a teenager the folks moved into a foreclosure, vacant for over a year, in a neighborhood where cars with primer and non Caucasians were supposed to leave by sundown.  I had a 7 colored Buick.    We did most of the moving ourselves with a friend's farm trailer attached to a sedan.   My dad liked his straw hat and bib coveralls when doing heavy work himself, the house needed a lot of heavy work.    I'm sure the neighbors were terrified.

I have a trailer sailor in front of the house for a couple weeks early every spring and late fall getting cleaned, waxed, charged and repaired.   It also sits in the drive for a few days every summer, fitting out for a 'cruise'.   My daily driver is left out during the summer so the 45 year old dinghy can sit safe in the garage (I like it more).    Occasionally a canoe sits on the corner of the back yard fence.   I would never live somewhere with an anti boating HOA.  I accept the neighbor has a mansion on wheels parked in front of the house between travels and a Trump flag still hangs from his porch.   The guy across the street has an utility trailer next to the garage.   The next street over decided monoculture lawn isn't for him, the entire front yard is a slightly jungle like garden.  Who cares? 

My mother's HOA entertains itself battling a legal CBD farm nearby.   The crime it brought was teenagers trying to steal marijuana and some sort of a gun incident.   (Their own kids were the criminals).   They also fought off a megachurch that had plans for an adjacent sports complex.   That one may have been legitimate, since the loudspeakers would have been audible a long distance.   

I guess I care if they pack more people in the house than they told the landlord and are allowed by ordnance, and I especially care if they have an arsenal. 

Agree the reference to homemade trailer and appearances were classist. This is not an elite neighborhood. 

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17 minutes ago, spankoka said:

Why people work hard to make a down payment so they can own their own home, only to be told what to do like they are a mere renter. I guess it's just a different culture in Canada where people buy a home so they can paint it the color they want or whatever. 

That is not always the case and in some instances is why they move there.  

I lived in a neighborhood with homes that were built back in the 30's and 40's outside of Philadelphia - right next to Haverford College.  The whole area was going through a gentrification and some of the owners wanted to put together some covenants for the neighborhood.  As first I was pretty much against it, but they were not being unreasonable.  There were things like: no parking of commercial vehicles on the street for more than 24 hours, trash cans needed to be in by sunset on collection day, sidewalks need to be cleared of snow as soon as practical, and loud parties need to end by 11:00 and a few others

With that we did have a Mrs.Crabbits that would walk the neighborhood and leave reminders in your mailbox.. but that is all they were.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In some places privatized fire departments are a big thing, and you BETTER stay paid up, or . .  

https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/10472820/tennessee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again

 of the 730 fire departments in Tennessee, 354 (48%) are privately operated; 311 (43%) are public. 

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21 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sounds very reasonable. We already knew our current home was in an HOA/POA and there were in fact several lawsuits active against it. Without going into too much detail, we sought out a lawyer with a good rep to handle our closing, disclosure, and we also escrowed part of our HOA/POA fees pending settlement of one of the lawsuits. We got a very good summary of our restrictions & covenants and the powers of this particular POA... which include foreclosing on an owner's property under some circumstances.

Since then, I've been active in the running of the place, with regard for stewardship and foresight. Right now I am on the committee overseeing road work, our largest budget item.

It seems like a silly expectation that the world should be run for one's own benefit. Getting involved in the community and in politics is the only way to avoid serfdom IMHO whether one lives in an HOA/POA or not, where-ever.

- DSK

Things must be different in NC... CA is a Trust Deed state, not mortgage. The only person that can foreclose is the benificary (lender).  What they can do is put a lien on the property that will secure past fees and fines.

There was a dump of a property in a great neighborhood that I was looking at 2 years ago that had some liens (from the city and county) against it.  After some research, I come to find that the sale price was just cover the obligation to the bank and I was going to be on the hook for the liens.. no thanks

 

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1 minute ago, AJ Oliver said:

In some places privatized fire departments are a big thing, and you BETTER stay paid up, or . .  

https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/10472820/tennessee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again

 of the 730 fire departments in Tennessee, 354 (48%) are privately operated; 311 (43%) are public. 

When we had the Thomas Fire, there were some private firetrucks in the area.... some we're from the studios - had the Warner Brother logo on them.  Got talking and come to find out they hired by the insurance companies to protect "specific properties."

 

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43 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Sounds very reasonable. We already knew our current home was in an HOA/POA and there were in fact several lawsuits active against it. Without going into too much detail, we sought out a lawyer with a good rep to handle our closing, disclosure, and we also escrowed part of our HOA/POA fees pending settlement of one of the lawsuits. We got a very good summary of our restrictions & covenants and the powers of this particular POA... which include foreclosing on an owner's property under some circumstances.

Since then, I've been active in the running of the place, with regard for stewardship and foresight. Right now I am on the committee overseeing road work, our largest budget item.

It seems like a silly expectation that the world should be run for one's own benefit. Getting involved in the community and in politics is the only way to avoid serfdom IMHO whether one lives in an HOA/POA or not, where-ever.

- DSK

"Getting involved in the community and in politics is the only way to avoid serfdom IMHO whether one lives in an HOA/POA or not, where-ever."

 HOA's  and condo boards are highly dependent on who in charge. I've lived with two.  Both were fine as long as they took care the basics like maintaining our private road and storm sewers. When the jerks who want to impose their idea of "good taste" on your home things get out of hand quickly.  If you are in one of these associations get on the board and be prepared to be loud.

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16 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You might want to read my response again.

He had enough trouble the first time.

His lips are tired now.

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15 hours ago, spankoka said:

Gated communities are considered an abonimation in Canada

We've got one nearby. It's beautiful and perfect and in 30 years I've never seen a sign of life in it. Big, beautiful pool and never a child in it.

The neighbours call it Stepford.

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1 hour ago, Ventucky Red said:

More the responsibility of the seller as this needs to be brought forward in the disclosures in the property transfer.  Speaking from my experience, the CBRE is pretty adamant about this and there needs to be a printed copy presented to the buyer as full disclosure prior to title transfer - usually means two copies as one will reside with either the title or escrow company.

When I did the real estate thing I was told to make certain that "predicated on property inspection and thorough review HOA CC&Rs" was included in the offer.

My dealing with them in the past has been pretty good as they had some good things going and were a sensible group of folks  Sometimes annoying yes, but nothing like dealing the the Historical Society. 

 

I also see no legal way to bind someone to something they had no idea even existed, let alone signed for or read.

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1 hour ago, Ventucky Red said:

When we had the Thomas Fire, there were some private firetrucks in the area.... some we're from the studios - had the Warner Brother logo on them.  Got talking and come to find out they hired by the insurance companies to protect "specific properties."

 

Heard about this...  So if the house next to the mcmantion they were protecting was on fire, would they help?? 

 

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

We were invited to visit and stay for a while on Gibson Island by a fellow sailor in Vets For Peace. 

The island is apparently the second most wealthy zip code in the country. 

It has an interesting history. You are required to buy and sell property to the club there and they then resell it. Thus if you want to move onto the island, the club gets a vote and if you lose, no house for you. At least one ex-president was told to GTFO :lol:

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2 hours ago, spankoka said:

Why people work hard to make a down payment so they can own their own home, only to be told what to do like they are a mere renter. I guess it's just a different culture in Canada where people buy a home so they can paint it the color they want or whatever. 

My HOA has no control over what color my house is, what kinds of cars I have, or how many boats are in my backyard. All they do is approve fences, no prison-style razor wire allowed, it has to look nice, and pitch a bitch if you never mow your lawn. They are NOT ALL THE SAME. I could very easily find a place not far from here where I could literally do anything I wanted to that wasn't so blatantly illegal and obvious that the sheriffs would have to come around. If you want that, we have it.

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We bought in a small court (12 townhouses) which included a HOA.  Read the guidelines and covenants.  

Once here, we discovered the Articles of Incorporation had not been maintained.  Re-established with the assistance of a clinic at University Of Baltimore School of Law.  Glad we did.

One of our neighbors has declined appreciably and is now vehemently anti-everything.  Won't keep up his property, has rats and raccoons in his yard, trash piled against his house, hasn't paid dues in years.  His wife is, and has always been, a bitch.  The other 11 homeowners are tired of being kind and forgiving.  One held off listing his house until we can get it sorted.  It's a mess, but we will have it all sorted out in short order.

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6 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

One of our neighbors has declined appreciably and is now vehemently anti-everything.  Won't keep up his property, has rats and raccoons in his yard, trash piled against his house, hasn't paid dues in years.  His wife is, and has always been, a bitch.  The other 11 homeowners are tired of being kind and forgiving.  One held off listing his house until we can get it sorted.  It's a mess, but we will have it all sorted out in short order.

Perfect illustration of the fallacy of Libertarianism.

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

In some places privatized fire departments are a big thing, and you BETTER stay paid up, or . .  

https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/news/10472820/tennessee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again

 of the 730 fire departments in Tennessee, 354 (48%) are privately operated; 311 (43%) are public. 

This was how ALL fire departments used to be in the 18th century. Houses in Annapolis still have* "fire marks" representing who you had your fire insurance with, only your company would put out your house and if you didn't pay up no one would help. This mostly went away when it became obvious in a city that cheap bastards and confused responses to fires spanning multiple homes were going to burn the whole place down.

Here is one:

Fire Marks in Annapolis - Forgotten Galicia

 

* still have them as decoration, not that we still actually use them ;)

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18 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

We've got one nearby. It's beautiful and perfect and in 30 years I've never seen a sign of life in it. Big, beautiful pool and never a child in it.

The neighbours call it Stepford.

We lived in a gated community and absolutely loved it. We had a great clubhouse on the beach, community dinner nights down there, kids running around and swimming everywhere, weekly ice-cream powerboat runs to Annapolis, and I paid $70/year for a slip for my dinghy and had a spot to come in from my mooring and load groceries and water. If it snowed we had one road we closed to cars so the kids could go sledding.

OTOH - We once rented a vacation house in North Carolina for the eclipse. It too was a gated community and I *hated it*. We took to calling it the Old People Concentration Camp. They had rules for freaking EVERYTHING and seemed populated by nasty rich retired White people who desperately wanted to keep anything to do with North Carolina safely outside their border. One example of their anal rule making was about community hikes. It was suggested that dogs and children not come along because the distractions caused ruined the average speed of the group :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:If these rules were NOT presented to a prospective homeowner before purchase a good lawyer would have a field day suing the shit out of various people.

Huh? They are recorded against the title. That means all purchasers are on notice. If your title company didn’t find it and put it in your policy as an exhibit, you could have a claim against the title company, but definitely not the seller or HOA. 

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4 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

reading "bible" would have been faster ,

Give me a break. If you don’t have a lawyer to help you with this stuff when you buy a house, you are asking for this kind of shit. 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Huh? They are recorded against the title. That means all purchasers are on notice. If your title company didn’t find it and put it in your policy as an exhibit, you could have a claim against the title company, but definitely not the seller or HOA. 

Well that would count as something in writing, not just wandering by and saying "guess what you signed up for", would it not?

At least around here any HOAs and fees are usually mentioned right in the listings.

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28 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This was how ALL fire departments used to be in the 18th century. Houses in Annapolis still have* "fire marks" representing who you had your fire insurance with, only your company would put out your house and if you didn't pay up no one would help. This mostly went away when it became obvious in a city that cheap bastards and confused responses to fires spanning multiple homes were going to burn the whole place down.

Here is one:

Fire Marks in Annapolis - Forgotten Galicia

 

* still have them as decoration, not that we still actually use them ;)

Same in Old Town section ofAlexandria

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51 minutes ago, shaggy said:

Heard about this...  So if the house next to the mcmantion they were protecting was on fire, would they help?? 

 

Do you mean the multi million dollar home next to the other multi million dollar home?  Kind of like asking if the have Grey Poupon.

In answer to your question, I don't know, but if it threatened their property then maybe so.  What I do know a lot of the guys were retired from one department or another..  guess it is in their DNA to lend a hand when needed.

 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Give me a break. If you don’t have a lawyer to help you with this stuff when you buy a house, you are asking for this kind of shit. 

In retro , I learned a lot of buying and selling  property in Florida, Never had this problem buying or selling on Long Island NY. And I think times are a changing, Today at least in Florida, In NY the buyer has a lawyer and the sellers has a lawyer, Down here one lawyer/title company handles both sides, and the contract has large capital letters " SOLD AS IS"  All anyone cares about is making a buck with as little effort as possible,  Also it was at the time of shut down and offices were closed and most doc's were E-signed,

Also in that HOA , the POA is a private company, and the board  members are just puppets, This is not something you don't know till after closing and you live there. My violation was minor , A white curtain hung on a kitchen sliding door, Nothing in the "by laws " mention it. So they were the ones making a big deal out of nothing, After the first call it was down in minutes, so the following texts , emails and letters were just plain harassing bullshit.

There were issues I had problems with , being on a golf course with weed whackers and leaf blowers starting at 6am , Always looked at the villa in late afternoon when things were quiet!

Well all said and done, Karma was on my side as I walked away with $40K in my pocket in less then a year and saving $500 a month                                                      I'm now in a great quiet place with friendly neighbor's 

so your right about things , DON"T trust anyone , and buyer beware.

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I learned a lot about Florida real estate from Dave Barry.

Quote

The major styles of houses in the United States are:
 
OLDER HOUSES with many quaint and charming architectural features such as that during certain phases of the moon the toilets flush up.
 
NEWER HOUSES built by large developers using modern cost-cutting efficiency measures such as hiring semiskilled derelict felon gypsy work-persons who are prone to forgetting to install key architectural elements such as windows and those large pieces of wood, "rafters" I believe they are called, that hold up the roof.
 
REALLY NICE WELL-BUILT, WELL-LOCATED, AFFORDABLE HOUSES that are not for sale.

3953af11322d5561508ef160e00b057b7ccd0008

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An acquaintance of mine that had a condo in Florida told me that the community is whites only. I have to suspect that HOA rules about displaying for sale signs and so on, are enabling this. He sold the place just because of living in God's waiting room boredom, but I guess not to a black person. It could be just a fact that black people don't want to buy there. 

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Give me a break. If you don’t have a lawyer to help you with this stuff when you buy a house, you are asking for this kind of shit. 

Eliz Warren has a plan for that . . . seriously, she does. 

House buying contracts that are easily understood by average people. 

No reason to not have that for HOA rules too. 

Clean, we are after your job. 

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Eliz Warren has a plan for that . . . seriously, she does. 

House buying contracts that are easily understood by average people. 

No reason to not have that for HOA rules too. 

Clean, we are after your job. 

Count me out, I'm retired.

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3 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Count me out, I'm retired.

Well, ah, I am not after his job either . . 

But seriously, in many respects the US is seriously over-lawyered. 

And you can tell . . . 

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