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WTF is Boris doing? Again?!


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Boris Johnson to announce lifting of England’s COVID restrictions for July 19

 

As if he didn't do enough damage to the UK and by proxy to the European mainland, PM Johnson is pushing to open up everything while being already hammered by the Delta variant. This includes  stuffed soccer arenas, clubs, pubs and whatnot. Sans masks, of course.

Why I am getting pissed off is rather simple: in 2020 he tried to please his partner-in-bad-hair, the former guy now known as 45. And he failed, miserably. He failed not only as a (THE) politician in charge, he failed his own people. And then some. The EU's fucked up fall and winter of 2020 was owed to the British variant, now known as Alpha, running wild.

And here we are, almost a year later and the fucking imbecil is doing it again! Delta is running wild in the UK, infecting the younger unvaccinated and it is already swapping over to Europe. Someone please tell him that 45 hast lost?! Or at least lock the place down again, including flights, trains and ferrys.

I have just about had it with those halfwits in charge gaming out some fantasy scenarios for whatever fucking benefit their sick brains have pieced together.

Fuck.

 

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Here we go again. 

You can rest assured no matter what happens... its the UK's fault. 
Virus originates in China - UKs fault. Alpha variant - Originates in Britain so definitely the UKs fault, they never originate elsewhere, Delta Variant - Oh yeah that's Britains fault as well. 
Hospital admissions are still low, as are deaths, vaccination levels pretty high at this point - only really the lowest of the low risk of people don't have them by now. 
Seems reasonable. 
 

Quote

Or at least lock the place down again, including flights, trains and ferrys.

You have your own borders, you can close them. Don't push this all onto us. 

(And yes Boris is a cunt) 

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From afar I'd say he is mostly right this time. The time has come, in largely vaccinated countries, for individuals to protect themselves, either by getting vaccinated, or the usual methods to avoid infection, or just get sick and hope it is not bad. If Germany wanted to slow the spread of the delta variant, why on earth allow your citizens to go to a soccer match in London by the thousands?

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Well this explains why Brits are so eager to go to Disney in Orlando with their unvaccinated kids. Must be a real safe place, Orlando, no masks no restrictions...kids don't like masks...can they hug the costumed characters?

.

 

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Seems fair enough with 50% of the population fully vaccinated. As long as the hospitalisations remain at a manageable level, deaths don't get out of control, then it's a good idea.

Going for zero deaths, zero hospitalisation and zero infections is just fucking stupid.

 

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It seems completely fair, everyone has had their chance to get vaccinated, it's all you can do, and it's what should be done.

If people choose otherwise, then that's on them, not the government, not the people, just on them.

Like, literally every single person I know in the UK has been vaccinated, they've all done their bit, and they are basically just waiting for people who are choosing not to, or are hesitant to do it. You can't wait for that shit, just move on.

It's like people complaining here who work in the health industries "oh but I'm not vaxxed yet, this isn't fair" despite the fact they could have booked in February.

Like how can they complain if I am booked in and only became eligible, 6 months after them. The "busy" excuse doesn't cut it for 6 months. You can't stop the country for those fucking people.

Here in Aus, they should have set a 4 phase return to normal. They should have just said "return to normal, January 1, 2022" as long as they had provided doses of vaccines for the whole population by then. Get waxxed and vaxxed, ready for summer, or not, either way STFU.

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With the rate it is now going in the UK, it was or back to strict rules or let it rip.
Back to strict rules is not on the political agenda.

Four rejected options: Playbook is told that in lengthy discussions between the PM, Cabinet ministers and the government’s scientific advisers, the question was repeatedly asked of what alternative options were available other than unlocking on July 19. As Johnson suggested yesterday — and as Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance did not contest — delaying “Freedom Day” by a month or two was seen as ineffective because, with the country already largely unlocked, cases would continue to rise anyway, and could then spike further when children go back to school in September. Delaying to later in the year was a nonstarter because the virus transmits more easily indoors and the pressure on the NHS is worse in winter. Proceeding with the July 19 date but with some restrictions remaining in place was also seen as ineffective because, at the current level of prevalence, minor measures would do little to prevent the spread of the virus. The only other option was to implement harsher lockdown-style measures again now, which was seen as unjustifiable as the vast majority of the most vulnerable people now have double-jab protection.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-now-or-never-4-rejected-options-a-leap-into-the-unknown/

And in the same piece;
In the meantime, Westminster — and Twitter — is having to come to terms with the reality that in all likelihood neither Boris Johnson nor Chris Whitty nor Keir Starmer nor SAGE know with any certainty what is going to happen next. At times like this it’s usually best to defer to the Times’ peerless Science Editor Tom Whipple: “Whitty admitted, frankly, that we are not sure. Humans think linearly, but diseases don’t. In an exponentially-growing system, every small bit of uncertainty — how well vaccines work, what demographic the virus moves into, how many contacts each person has, who those contacts are — can have an outsized effect. This is why modellers are more uncertain now than they have ever been … The virus is not defeated. Instead, it is reaching an accommodation with us and we with it. And while it does, more people will die.”

But for countries with lower vac grade and/or have a lower daily infection count, if you can afford it, close your borders for the UK.
And you feel for the 100 of thousands who have blood cancer etc who can not be given a jab.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Navig8tor said:

Meanwhile forget the Delta the outrageously more infectious Lamda has arrived in the UK can we see 100 k of new cases a day?

<pedant>Lambda</pedant>

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Previously, travelers from these countries were barred from entering Germany unless they were German residents, who would have to quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

Now, fully vaccinated people from each country will not be required to quarantine. Others will still have to self-isolate but can end their quarantine early with a negative COVID-19 test.

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On 7/5/2021 at 9:24 PM, MiddayGun said:

Here we go again. 

You can rest assured no matter what happens... its the UK's fault. 
Virus originates in China - UKs fault. Alpha variant - Originates in Britain so definitely the UKs fault, they never originate elsewhere, Delta Variant - Oh yeah that's Britains fault as well. 
Hospital admissions are still low, as are deaths, vaccination levels pretty high at this point - only really the lowest of the low risk of people don't have them by now. 
Seems reasonable. 
 

You have your own borders, you can close them. Don't push this all onto us. 

(And yes Boris is a cunt) 

 

Mate, it's not the UK's fault, at least the origin or evolution of variants. This is on the PM BoJo and maybe some of his advisers.

Having the variants running wild in some bizarre mix of the Swedish and US (under 45) way, that's on Boris. Having the varaiants spread to the EU mainland and indeed worldwide, that's on BoJo and every country that didn't close their borders in a timely manner.

 

Speaking of which ...

 

7 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

Apparently Germany didn't get the memo.

Screenshot_20210706-131922_Firefox.thumb.jpg.08e4ce88933686c3bf922636e87a0997.jpg

 

I literally read about that 20 minutes after I submitted the opening post. And indeed, our political leadership seems to be just as thick as yours. But hey, there are elections coming this fall, so let's sacrifice some of the herd for the fun and entertainment of the rest. Un-fucking-believable.

Happy 4th wave everyone!

 

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There is never going to be a 'right' time to open up again. And there is always going to be an increased risk to vulnerable members of society, but that risk isn't coming just from Covid, we see high hospitalisation every year just from winter flu. As last year showed, wearing masks makes a huge difference to the spread of Flu, but we don't go into lockdown every year to prevent yearly flu season. 

I thought this article took a fair few on it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942

Covid isn't going away for a long time, if ever. Even with 100% vaccination in those who can (which will never be achieved) we will still have covid, vulnerable people will still be at risk, new variants will emerge. Its not the perfect time, but that time doesn't exist. 

I suspect we may see many other countries follow suit, even European ones, lets see if they come in for the same criticism from certain areas. I doubt it.

 

1 minute ago, Grog said:

I literally read about that 20 minutes after I submitted the opening post. And indeed, our political leadership seems to be just as thick as yours. But hey, there are elections coming this fall, so let's sacrifice some of the herd for the fun and entertainment of the rest. Un-fucking-believable.

Happy 4th wave everyone!

 

For the reasons in the above article I posted, I doubt it will be as bad as you think. But good luck with getting rid of your politicians, doubt it will happen here any time soon because apparently the Tories could probably win with Jacob Reese Mogg at the helm, Labour are doing that shite of a job. 

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11 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

I suspect we may see many other countries follow suit, even European ones, lets see if they come in for the same criticism from certain areas. I doubt it.

1- This is an English language site, go read some Dutch, French or German ones. Lot's of criticism there too, or the Swedish/US discussed here. Crying that only the UK is targeted is short sighted.

2- Here we let go of many restrictions too. Made will infection was low, not while rising so fast.
But never with the bombast. No Freedom Day, or made it a political choice nor are they hiding prognoses.

I did some calculations, 6000 deaths in a few months. And at least a million in isolation.
Guardian comes up with almost 2 million in self isolation after being in contact with an infected person.

3- History if Johnson is;
Take it to the chin, it will last 12 weeks, shake hands with Covid patients, let's have Xmas.
No a good track record. The good point is deaths are low, bad point is letting it rip is risky. Lot's of young people not working can cause problems in many areas.
Alternative is 3 months more of harsher restrictions, and that is political not viable in the UK nor in many countries.

Some info;

A little bit of TINA: Last night government figures did not dispute the suggestion that millions more would get COVID in the coming weeks or that thousands of them would get some form of long COVID. The counterpoint they kept coming back with was that deaths would remain much, much lower than in previous waves, and that trying to get cases back down now would mean harsher ongoing restrictions.

Not appy: One thing that is alarming the department of health is that members of the public will delete the NHS COVID app en masse when they realize so many people are testing positive and that contact isolation is continuing for most of the summer. Playbook has already heard anecdotally of people deleting in fear that it will now only be a matter of time before they are pinged. Which poses more questions for the PM today: Does the government know how many people are deleting the app? And does it have a plan to do anything about it?

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-we-still-believe-covids-coming-home-javid-vs-whitty/

 

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51 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Not appy: One thing that is alarming the department of health is that members of the public will delete the NHS COVID app en masse when they realize so many people are testing positive and that contact isolation is continuing for most of the summer. Playbook has already heard anecdotally of people deleting in fear that it will now only be a matter of time before they are pinged. Which poses more questions for the PM today: Does the government know how many people are deleting the app? And does it have a plan to do anything about it?

Less than half the UK population with smartphones ever installed the app in the first place. I am one who did not. There was a recent long discussion on the NHS app on another forum I follow. Amongst those who had installed it, most were using it only to image QR codes on entering venues that require that and had switched off track and trace (which apparently you can, although it nags you to turn it on again). Some NHS Trusts instruct staff to turn it off at work, otherwise they'd be even more short staffed than they actually are. Some teachers are (individually) making the same decision. And so on.  

Portraying the decision the UK government has made as beyond reason shows lack of understanding of the facts. Modelling indicates that now - summer - is the best time to relax restrictions. They suggest that waiting until schools return and the flu season is underway would be worse, albeit more younger people would be vaccinated by then. Models may be wrong, I don't know, nobody knows for sure.

Personally, I am pissed off that another summer has been taken away from me, as I certainly now plan to keep away from other people as much as I can while we see how this throw of the dice pans out. With two doses of Pfizer inside me, Covid is unlikely to kill me but I'd like to avoid Long Covid and am willing to curtail my activities accordingly.  I'd have rather faced lock-down again in winter, when it makes little difference to me. But my own feelings and priorities aside, the fact is, the UK government is following the advice of experts who have been telling them this is the right thing to do for the UK. Countries who have vaccinated fewer might do well not to follow.

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Many of us don't have mobile phones, they don't work in many areas. They didn't down at the sailing club, till a couple of years back the phone companies fitted a repeater........ On the back of the OOD's  start line box!! You can just see the white pole at the back. They also fitted two other small repeaters in the village to cover blank spots.. Horning_Sailing_Club.thumb.jpg.cec1f9ff85aeefbdb6728f92fe89d9be.jpg

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9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Portraying the decision the UK government has made as beyond reason shows lack of understanding of the facts. Modelling indicates that now - summer - is the best time to relax restrictions. They suggest that waiting until schools return and the flu season is underway would be worse, albeit more younger people would be vaccinated by then. Models may be wrong, I don't know, nobody knows for sure.

If you only have two options, now or then. That is the input for that model. There are other options, like restrictions till end of year.
Journalists and health experts are looking for the models used, BJ said they were available. Nope, one month old, the delay step 4 models.

Here some actual stats;
https://twitter.com/COVID19actuary/status/1412800198510878730

 

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There isn't the slightest possibility of any UK government of any party saying restrictions should continue to the end of the year. There would be blood on the streets.

Thanks for your link but I'm well aware of the statistics.

 

 

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Blood on the streets (really ???) or death in hospitals. How many deaths are the UK government calculating ?
And millions in self isolation, not going to happen.
Overworked NHS now looking at the same overload again.
But a lot can change before the 19th.
People will hate it to see their relatives catch Covid.

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Johnson has no alternative but to open up.  The UK Government now has a near insurmountable debt burden, his back bench is close to revolt as are an increasing number of people in the street.  Plus the UK needs to push hard now for herd immunity by both vaccination and natural means otherwise the NHS WILL fall over come autumn.  Once again like every other year in at least the last decade we will see the NHS in crisis but this time NOT from Covid-19 but from the normal respiratory illnesses that occur every year.

The question is when non-Covid-19 respiratory illnesses stretch the NHS will the Government push for a lockdown to "save the NHS" which they have never done previously?

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12 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

A lot of people on social media are upset at Boris just like you!

 

833047975_ScreenShot2021-07-09at4_27_00AM.thumb.png.9d8160801286b2ad1d60295fd00c9d9a.png

Its deeply suspicious that all the posts are identical.

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On 7/7/2021 at 10:35 PM, LeoV said:

Blood on the streets (really ???) or death in hospitals. How many deaths are the UK government calculating ?
And millions in self isolation, not going to happen.
Overworked NHS now looking at the same overload again.
But a lot can change before the 19th.
People will hate it to see their relatives catch Covid.

So why have they not built any more capacity in the hospitals if this is such a problem ? My brother in Law tested positive this week in London my sister had it at Christmas. Both are double jabbed and. She said she had a shite 24 hours' and was fine he has a sore throat and is fine, he only got tested because he has his own office and did not want to give it to the rest of his staff. This is the norm for the vast majority of people, only a very few end up in hospital and dead. Its not going to go away any time soon the Jabbing is not going to make it all go away. If you are scared stay home but can the rest of us get the fuck on with our life's please. The way the Uk press reports numbers is a bit like counting people with a cold pre Covid its just not relevant. Hospital numbers and deaths might be. We are all going to die, but most of us won't today.     

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I'm 45, I have had one shot of the not quite as good but apparently still fine but very good value vaccine, eagerly awaiting my second dose in only another two fucking weeks, meanwhile my geographic area has just been declared 3rd worst in EUROPE for new infections.  The government has lost control of the population due to unexplained reopening of massive crowd sporting events, and trying to push a bill through banning all future public protests for ever , ensuring the mother of all public protests, and If I'm very lucky I'll have up to 66% protection against major illness and long covid 3 weeks after my SECOND dose of not quite as good vaccine (mid August), and I hear fucking borris telling us all to just SUCK IT UP?  Fuck you, borris, and fuck the funny little clown car you rode into town.  A monkey with a dartboard would have handled the pandemic better, but with slightly less corruption and sleaze.

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7 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

I'm 45, I have had one shot of the not quite as good but apparently still fine but very good value vaccine, eagerly awaiting my second dose in only another two fucking weeks, meanwhile my geographic area has just been declared 3rd worst in EUROPE for new infections.  The government has lost control of the population due to unexplained reopening of massive crowd sporting events, and trying to push a bill through banning all future public protests for ever , ensuring the mother of all public protests, and If I'm very lucky I'll have up to 66% protection against major illness and long covid 3 weeks after my SECOND dose of not quite as good vaccine (mid August), and I hear fucking borris telling us all to just SUCK IT UP?  Fuck you, borris, and fuck the funny little clown car you rode into town.  A monkey with a dartboard would have handled the pandemic better, but with slightly less corruption and sleaze.

60,000 expected at Wembley.

Germany's interior minister labelled European football's governing body UEFA "utterly irresponsible" because of its decision to allow big crowds.

The United Kingdom is currently descending into a third wave driven by the Delta COVID-19 variant spreading among younger people.

According to The Independent newspaper, almost 1,300 people in Scotland who travelled to London to watch the Euro match against England last month later tested positive for coronavirus.

With only one game to go, and a crowd of more than 60,000 expected at Wembley, there are ongoing concerns about the potential for the final to act as a super spreader event.

 

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8 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

I'm 45, I have had one shot of the not quite as good but apparently still fine but very good value vaccine, eagerly awaiting my second dose in only another two fucking weeks, meanwhile my geographic area has just been declared 3rd worst in EUROPE for new infections.  The government has lost control of the population due to unexplained reopening of massive crowd sporting events, and trying to push a bill through banning all future public protests for ever , ensuring the mother of all public protests, and If I'm very lucky I'll have up to 66% protection against major illness and long covid 3 weeks after my SECOND dose of not quite as good vaccine (mid August), and I hear fucking borris telling us all to just SUCK IT UP?  Fuck you, borris, and fuck the funny little clown car you rode into town.  A monkey with a dartboard would have handled the pandemic better, but with slightly less corruption and sleaze.

Sadly this is the attitude that brought Lenin and Hitler to power. Be very carful what you wish for, its rarely better on the other side. Hide at home on uber eats and Amazon wile working on increasing your chance of getting cancer to over 51%. Wile trying to come to terms with the fact you are going to get it at some point, we all are !

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5 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Sadly this is the attitude that brought Lenin and Hitler to power. Be very carful what you wish for, its rarely better on the other side. Hide at home on uber eats and Amazon wile working on increasing your chance of getting cancer to over 51%. Wile trying to come to terms with the fact you are going to get it at some point, we all are !

There's an "h" in while.:rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

I'm 45, I have had one shot of the not quite as good but apparently still fine but very good value vaccine, eagerly awaiting my second dose in only another two fucking weeks, meanwhile my geographic area has just been declared 3rd worst in EUROPE for new infections.  

You at the first opportunity stuck your scrawny little arm out and said in with that lessor in your view value vaccine. Your second vaccination is due and yet you continue to say in with that lessor vaccination, I guess Boris got that part right despite your protestations of his incompetence and indeed by choice you could have refused to have that lessor vaccine and taken your chances blaming Boris’s incompetence for your hesitancy on being vaccinated, with in your view an inferior vaccination.

Now look at it from say France’s point of view, low vaccination rate, major hesitancy from its population to get themselves vaccinated, pretty much open door borders to the EU where the Delta variant is widespread, pretty much fully out of lockdown ahead of the U.K., so what do the government do there, oh we simply won’t test for COVID in the numbers to the extent that if France tested to the numbers that the U.K. does ( over 1 million tests per week at the moment ), then you may we’ll find that your area is not the 3rd worst in Europe.

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Continuing with masks and continuing to heavily restrict crowd numbers in enclosed settings, just for another month or two, would have cost very little indeed, especially if the payoff would have been the hospitality and entertainment sectors getting going properly sooner.  Vaccination in some areas and in some privileged (and  vulnerable) groups has happened faster than in others, but it seems those not suitably protected are now being thrown to the wolves, again, as if the lessons hard learned from those last few ill advised sporting events last spring (Ascot etc) that cost 30,000 poor souls, never took place?  Shame shame shame.  

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I have until recently been firmly on the side of lockdowns and other restrictions and public health measures to contain this virus. However, once over half the US and UK populations have been vaccinated, most importantly the older and more vulnerable half of the population, I now think the restrictions must go (as they have in my home state of Illinois), and the onus is now on those who refuse vaccination. Unfortunately there will be a few young people who do suffer from the virus, but the vast majority will not and it is time for society to learn to live with this virus, which will be with us forever.

For those lamenting that some vaccinated folk are getting sick, there is a fundamental misunderstanding about how vaccines work. They don't prevent you from getting infected, they prevent the infection from overwhelming you, by allowing the immune system to react far more quickly, by about a week. A crucial week. The result is clear in the attached two figures, which show that despite skyrocketing infection rates, comparable to the worst around the world right now, the death rate in the UK remains extremely low. Locally we have had a few more deaths, all but two were unvaccinated folk, and the two vaccinated were severely ill otherwise.

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-07-10 at 5.39.15 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-07-10 at 5.39.38 PM.png

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24 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

They don't prevent you from getting infected, they prevent the infection from overwhelming you, by allowing the immune system to react far more quickly, by about a week.

Do you mean you won't be hospitalised if you are vaccinated?

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17 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

 those last few ill advised sporting events last spring (Ascot etc) that cost 30,000 poor souls, never took place?  

Ascot 2020 was not open to the public at all. Nor was there was another sporting event "that cost 30,000 poor souls". If you are thinking of Cheltenham, it should not have gone ahead but there isn't the slightest evidence it had an effect of that order.

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14 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Do you mean you won't be hospitalised if you are vaccinated?

The numbers hospitalised after having the jabs and then catching covid are tiny compared to those without the jab. Also those hospitalised tend to be just there for a couple of days not weeks on a ventilator. The vast majority of those staying in hospital have not had a jab.

Note, the numbers hospitalised in the UK, include those have attended A&E (ER) without an overnight stay, which many do here when they should see their doctor, It being easy to walk into a 24hour manned establishment and see someone at no cost..

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31 minutes ago, The Q said:
15 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Do you mean you won't be hospitalised if you are vaccinated?

The numbers hospitalised after having the jabs and then catching covid are tiny compared to those without the jab. Also those hospitalised tend to be just there for a couple of days not weeks on a ventilator. The vast majority of those staying in hospital have not had a jab.

Note, the numbers hospitalised in the UK, include those have attended A&E (ER) without an overnight stay, which many do here when they should see their doctor, It being easy to walk into a 24hour manned establishment and see someone at no cost..

Good answer

KSFB has spent months now spreading lies and harmful disinformation, he/she has been given enough leads & cites that it's clear he/she is continuing to spread anti-vaxx bullshit deliberately... one might say, with malice aforethought.

- DSK

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Good old Kate, any time I post she turns up with bullshit questions and comments. A true troll with nothing better to do with her life.

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How many days to "freedom day"?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/freedom-day-looms-in-england-despite-coronavirus-surge/100295326

The Netherlands shows what could happen next

Those in Britain only need to look across the North Sea to see what has happened in the Netherlands over the past three weeks and the devastating effects of reopening normal life too quickly – which saw infections rise more than 500 per cent in just one week.

'You can expect a beautiful summer'

In mid-June, COVID-19 infections in the Netherlands had dropped to their lowest levels in nine months, 13 million vaccinations had been administered to the population of 17.5 million people, and bars and restaurants were open.

Dutch caretaker Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced that by the end of the month face masks would no longer be required.

A young woman with long blonde hair wears a blue surgical mask on an Amsterdam street
The Netherlands dropped all requirements for people to wear masks in public spaces in June. (

Reuters: Eva Plevier

)

"This is a special moment", he said.

"Many times I have stood here to tell you what you can't do.

"But now we can focus on what is possible."

On June 26, most limits on group sizes would also be lifted, providing 1.5 metres of social distancing could be observed, and there would be no new limits placed on the number of people allowed into stores, restaurants or bars if they were vaccinated or could provide a negative COVID test.

Face masks would still be required on public transport and in airports.

"We can expect a beautiful summer," Mr Rutte said.

But he also warned the population to remain cautious and that there were still many uncertainties moving towards autumn: "You can always be stabbed in the back by a new variant."

Nightclubs reopen and festivals return

Young women dancing at a festival at night
Dutch authorities have shut clubs and festivals after an outdoor music festival led to 1,000 coronavirus infections despite it requiring a negative test for entry. (

Reuters: Eva Plevier

)

At the start of July, nightclubs reopened and thousands of young people flocked to music festivals around the country.

If you had a state-issued QR pass on your smartphone showing you were fully vaccinated, had recovered from COVID-19 or had a recent negative test, you were free to party like pre-pandemic days.

One such "test for entry" event was the Verknipt festival in Utrecht held on the first weekend of July.

With 20,000 people in attendance, the open-air electronic music festival featured no masks and no social distancing.

Utrecht's mayor Sharon Dijksma even scored a ticket, saying at the time the feeling of being around so many people as "special and a little tense".

But two weeks since Verknipt, the results have been stark – around 1,000 people who attended the festival are known to have been infected with COVID-19 over the two-day event.

Ms Dijksma apologised and said she now thinks the 40-hour time frame for accepting negative tests to get into the festival was wrong.

"It was an error in judgement," she told Dutch broadcaster NOS on Wednesday.

Infections jump 500 per cent in a week

Before the folly of the Verknipt festival had come light, the Dutch government had already started backtracking on restrictions.

By July 7, Health Minister Hugo de Jonge said the government had acknowledged a sharp rise in infections – new infections had doubled to 8,000 in the week ending Tuesday, July 6 – and was requesting urgent advice from the country's outbreak management team.

By July 9, there were nearly 7,000 cases recorded in the previous 24-hour period alone.

 

Nearly three-quarters of the new cases were in young people and half of those cases were of the highly transmissible Delta variant.

While the spike in infections had not resulted in a significant increase in hospitalisations, Mr de Jonge said that could be threatened by the "unprecedented" rise in cases, and the government had no option but to reintroduce restrictions on hospitality.

Cafes, bars and restaurants would have to close earlier and social distancing and fixed seating was reintroduced for diners.

Nightclubs were again forced to close and all multi-day festivals and events with large crowds would be cancelled until at least August 14.

'We had poor judgement'

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte riding a bicycle out palace gates surrounded by photographers
After lifting restrictions and promising the nation was on its way to a "beautiful summer", Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte has apologised for his "poor judgement". (

Reuters: Piroschka van de Wouw

)

Last Monday, Mr Rutte apologised and admitted restrictions were lifted too quickly.

"What we thought would be possible, turned out not to be possible in practice," he said.

"We had poor judgement, which we regret and for which we apologise."

 

The action he and his government took has drawn criticism from across the country, from within the general population to health authorities and opposition political parties.

Sylvana Simons, who heads the BIJ1 party, reportedly said the government had made a "criminal choice" to put people in danger.

The decision to reverse the restrictions has also seen a lawsuit brought against the state by around 30 festival and event organisers, including those of the Dutch F1 Grand Prix.

With daily coronavirus cases reaching 51,870 on Friday in the UK, Boris Johnson will be hoping his country does not experience the same "beautiful summer" his Dutch counterpart has.

With Reuters

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

How many days to "freedom day"?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-18/freedom-day-looms-in-england-despite-coronavirus-surge/100295326

The Netherlands shows what could happen next

Those in Britain only need to look across the North Sea to see what has happened in the Netherlands over the past three weeks and the devastating effects of reopening normal life too quickly – which saw infections rise more than 500 per cent in just one week.

'You can expect a beautiful summer'

In mid-June, COVID-19 infections in the Netherlands had dropped to their lowest levels in nine months, 13 million vaccinations had been administered to the population of 17.5 million people, and bars and restaurants were open.

Dutch caretaker Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced that by the end of the month face masks would no longer be required.

A young woman with long blonde hair wears a blue surgical mask on an Amsterdam street

The Netherlands dropped all requirements for people to wear masks in public spaces in June. (

Reuters: Eva Plevier

)

"This is a special moment", he said.

"Many times I have stood here to tell you what you can't do.

"But now we can focus on what is possible."

On June 26, most limits on group sizes would also be lifted, providing 1.5 metres of social distancing could be observed, and there would be no new limits placed on the number of people allowed into stores, restaurants or bars if they were vaccinated or could provide a negative COVID test.

Face masks would still be required on public transport and in airports.

"We can expect a beautiful summer," Mr Rutte said.

But he also warned the population to remain cautious and that there were still many uncertainties moving towards autumn: "You can always be stabbed in the back by a new variant."

Nightclubs reopen and festivals return

Young women dancing at a festival at night

Dutch authorities have shut clubs and festivals after an outdoor music festival led to 1,000 coronavirus infections despite it requiring a negative test for entry. (

Reuters: Eva Plevier

)

At the start of July, nightclubs reopened and thousands of young people flocked to music festivals around the country.

If you had a state-issued QR pass on your smartphone showing you were fully vaccinated, had recovered from COVID-19 or had a recent negative test, you were free to party like pre-pandemic days.

One such "test for entry" event was the Verknipt festival in Utrecht held on the first weekend of July.

With 20,000 people in attendance, the open-air electronic music festival featured no masks and no social distancing.

Utrecht's mayor Sharon Dijksma even scored a ticket, saying at the time the feeling of being around so many people as "special and a little tense".

But two weeks since Verknipt, the results have been stark – around 1,000 people who attended the festival are known to have been infected with COVID-19 over the two-day event.

Ms Dijksma apologised and said she now thinks the 40-hour time frame for accepting negative tests to get into the festival was wrong.

"It was an error in judgement," she told Dutch broadcaster NOS on Wednesday.

Infections jump 500 per cent in a week

Before the folly of the Verknipt festival had come light, the Dutch government had already started backtracking on restrictions.

By July 7, Health Minister Hugo de Jonge said the government had acknowledged a sharp rise in infections – new infections had doubled to 8,000 in the week ending Tuesday, July 6 – and was requesting urgent advice from the country's outbreak management team.

By July 9, there were nearly 7,000 cases recorded in the previous 24-hour period alone.

 

Nearly three-quarters of the new cases were in young people and half of those cases were of the highly transmissible Delta variant.

While the spike in infections had not resulted in a significant increase in hospitalisations, Mr de Jonge said that could be threatened by the "unprecedented" rise in cases, and the government had no option but to reintroduce restrictions on hospitality.

Cafes, bars and restaurants would have to close earlier and social distancing and fixed seating was reintroduced for diners.

Nightclubs were again forced to close and all multi-day festivals and events with large crowds would be cancelled until at least August 14.

'We had poor judgement'

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte riding a bicycle out palace gates surrounded by photographers

After lifting restrictions and promising the nation was on its way to a "beautiful summer", Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte has apologised for his "poor judgement". (

Reuters: Piroschka van de Wouw

)

Last Monday, Mr Rutte apologised and admitted restrictions were lifted too quickly.

"What we thought would be possible, turned out not to be possible in practice," he said.

"We had poor judgement, which we regret and for which we apologise."

 

The action he and his government took has drawn criticism from across the country, from within the general population to health authorities and opposition political parties.

Sylvana Simons, who heads the BIJ1 party, reportedly said the government had made a "criminal choice" to put people in danger.

The decision to reverse the restrictions has also seen a lawsuit brought against the state by around 30 festival and event organisers, including those of the Dutch F1 Grand Prix.

With daily coronavirus cases reaching 51,870 on Friday in the UK, Boris Johnson will be hoping his country does not experience the same "beautiful summer" his Dutch counterpart has.

With Reuters

You will get infected. It's staying out of hospital which is the important metric for old people.

I'm hopeful that atagi will open up the vaccine to 12 year olds and above. Otherwise we will be seeing more dead kids than dead old people.

Sucks to have younger kids.

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Yep we opened up when numbers were low and still declining. Two weekends showed that with even testing in place it was a bad idea.
It started at mass events, then brought home, then to workplaces. It still spreads now even the festivals etc were only over 2 weekends allowed.

First under the young, but as they have contacts with all ages it is now spreading again in care homes.
With restrictions on nightlife back it looks like daily new cases are stabilizing. But it will take months to see the real effect on hospitalization and deaths.

But at least the anti lockdown, restrictions people here did see the effect. Some will keep saying restrictions are not needed and Covid is a hoax.  Vaccines do not work, makes you sick etc. But that number goes down. I know of older people hesitant to take a vaccine who now made an appointment. Hesitant because so much crap is flowing on Facebook about the dangers of vaccines. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/covid-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-ccdh-report

UK can put restrictions back too if it goes the same way. They have now, before unlocking, the same numbers we have after this two weekends. So they open up with numbers that brought back restrictions here.

It sucks to have a condition that does not allow to take a vaccine. You force them into total isolation. One example, blood cancer. And in the UK that is more then a million people.

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Except the people will die, having Boris make a criminal of himself will be fun to watch.

tenor.gif

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Wuhan II is here in Singapore, gov struggling to get it under control, definitely more virolent considering just about had cleared up wuhan I.

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38 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

Lol, yeah, be terrified of the Netherlands opening up and being free!

lolol, someday, you people will look back and say 'huh, wow, we were lied to, just a tiny bit...'

 

1762731342_ScreenShot2021-07-19at11_22_27AM.thumb.png.a760036204814508be111e14ae5843a4.png

image.thumb.png.00dd615be41a571c1554b5144bd16bca.png

Give it a couple of weeks.

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They obviously have a lot of confidence:rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57882029

The PM, chancellor and the health secretary are self-isolating, and there are warnings cases will surge.

On BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Zahawi defended the U-turn which saw the prime minister and chancellor self-isolating, after initially saying they would take part in a pilot programme to take daily tests instead.

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Absolutely nothing to do with confidence, sheer political necessity to be seen as the same as the commoners around them. Get special privileges and you will be taken to the cleaners by the UK press, don't turn up to work meetings like running a country in a crisis and you will be taken to the cleaners by the UK press, yah just can't win either way.

Who would want to be leaders of any democracy in the world at the moment, talk about no winnings in anything you do nor whatever direction you go in.

The only upside is the UK has the lowest morbidity rate ever on record at the moment, it won't be long before the press are hailing that as a bonus.

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I noticed that none of the spectators were wearing masks at either Silverstone or at Sail GP in Plymouth.

Given the AZ vaccine is not so effective vs the Delta variant, that seemed a bit risky to me.

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

I noticed that none of the spectators were wearing masks at either Silverstone or at Sail GP in Plymouth.

Given the AZ vaccine is not so effective vs the Delta variant, that seemed a bit risky to me.

Does it result in hospitalisations and deaths or just case numbers and illness? 

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52 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Given the AZ vaccine is not so effective vs the Delta variant, that seemed a bit risky to me.

Nope, still under research. Range from studies; could be a bit less to 25% less from effectiveness assumed in general . AZ and even Pfizer.
Though against Beta some South African studies showed AZ struggles more. So maybe a reason to get as much people the delta variant.

Netherlands;
Deaths after hospitalization from 0.8 % to 0.2 % is predicted. And that not from peak but just before the new wave. Much better understanding how to handle in hospitals.
With every week and more vaccinations it will be lower. If delta does not change it's habits. Or Zeta.

And even for the party goers, most did not experience it as freedom. To many had to isolate afterwards. No fun with nice weather. So not many complaints about closing nightlife or festivals again. We have proof now that that were the super spreader events here. Logic thinking about exponential growth and a bit of knowledge of human behaviour predicted that. Even when only tested negative could enter. I believe in the UK it is totally free to enter nightlife, no tests.

There is a point to open up, maybe just before school season starts again. As everyone here and UK  had then the time to get a double shot.
After that opening up let's hope everyone then gets Covid very quick, so the one who can not get a shot (aka blood cancer patients) are not looking at many months of total isolation but a few months only.
I would suggest that everyone who refuses gets a Covid shot or are invited to huge infection parties, as it is nothing to worry about.
But hospital costs and costs after recovery not covered for the unvaccinated except the ones who can not get a shot. And only voluntary staff at special emergency hospitals for the refusers. No IC beds. Just aspirin.  Get it over quickly. 0.2% of a few hundred thousands patients is then an outcome I can live with.
And close the borders, as new variants could be imported for maybe years to come. Or maybe not. And how long will the shots or antibodies be effective, no one know. 1 year, two years, forever ?

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Generally outside.. no transmission / very very little unless you get too close to someone..

90+ of hospitalizations are of the non vaccinated.

All people attending Silverstone had to prove either 2 jabs or a negative test..

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59 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

Case numbers will certainly jump with opening up. The question is how well the vax protects the people from hospitalisation and death.

Interesting for us. might be painful for them, Brits and the Dutch

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I noticed that none of the spectators were wearing masks at either Silverstone or at Sail GP in Plymouth.

Outdoors, low risk.

I'm not so cheerful about masks no longer being mandatory in indoors public spaces like shops, pubs or trains.

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6 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Outdoors, low risk.

I'm not so cheerful about masks no longer being mandatory in indoors public spaces like shops, pubs or trains.

But outdoors, sitting side by side with somebody carrying the delta variant will still lead to infection for an unvaccinated person and smaller (30-20%) probability for a vaccinated person. The virus molecules are airborne and travel more than the gap between the spectators.

Anyway....it looked quite appealing and back to normal until I saw the UK case load.

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The UK is generally a windy place. Virus molecules will blow away and disperse.

There was a hue and cry about this in the UK linked to BLM marches in 2020 during lockdown. In practice, there was no evidence at all of associated infections. It is now accepted that the chances of being infected outdoors are very small. 

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Nightclubs, a summary: Vallance says that they are "potential super-spreader events". They opened at midnight. In two months vaccination will be a condition of entry. But PM this afternoon threatened to shut them down if they don't ask for Covid passes in the meantime.

Dogwatch, lets hope so. Here there were field tests before Delta hit, showed what you say. But now with delta and booze involved at festivals it went wrong.
One, Verknipt, 20.000 visitors, over 1200 infected.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/15/music-festival-in-holland-leads-to-over-1000-covid-infections.html

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4 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Does it result in hospitalisations and deaths or just case numbers and illness? 

I don't want to find out, myself.  Illness is not my first choice either.  I am starting to mask again in stores because nobody else is and kids in shopping carts are right at face level.  I wouldn't hang out in a shrieking crowd either.

Around here, only way to be a "case " is if you go for a test yourself or go get care for illness. Not like they are telling people who rode a bus or were in a store to go get tested. 

But I don't want to be an asymptomatic breakthrough either just now because I probably have surgery coming up the next month or so and they won't do it if I test positive. If it's not one thing its another.

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BJ presser;
1000 hospitalizations expected a day, deaths if people are careful 10K, if not 20K in this wave.
But cheerfully, it will not be as bad as it was in previous waves.

Happy Freedom day. Only 50% of population had one jab, children get infected too.

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6 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I noticed that none of the spectators were wearing masks at either Silverstone or at Sail GP in Plymouth.

Maybe in the fan zone at Plymouth, on the official spectator boats it was strictly enforced whether you were sat outside or inside.

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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/how-many-covid-hospitalisation-double-vaccinated-171607939.html

This is horrifying. The CDC travel guidance now is warning that "conditions" during overseas travel may result in fully vaccinated travelers spreading the disease.  Back to masks and the basement...or at least not going overseas this year. 

 

20210719_154107.jpg

Screenshot_20210719-154355_Chrome.jpg

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So same Delta variant - Valance in the UK says 40% hospitalisations vaccinated, Fauci in the USA says 99% unvaccinated.

Can they both be right?

The infamous Imperial College modeller Professor Neil Fergusson says the UK cases per day will rise to 200k.  He hasn't got it right yet will he this time?

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23 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Wrong Vallance corrected it, he just makes a mistake at critical moment.

 

Well, better. But are the 40% double jabbed?

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Can not say, UK will not publish that or what vaccine was used.
Lots of recent taken one jab only people in the UK.

Oh and they are running out of tests.

Weird is it took hours to correct the false statement. One look at twitter 5 minutes after he said it was enough to see his mistake.

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And what age are the double jabbed dying of Covid, do they have other comorbidities, are they just old, have they just had the second jab and then been hit by an E Scooter ( first death yesterday in London of an Escooter rider on a hire scooter ). Sure there are some pretty horrifying stats about but little to really distinguish just what they represent other than the UK at present has the lowest morbidity rate on recent record.

You guys need to understand that the UK leads the pack by a number of weeks over most EU countries in both vaccinations and the waves of Covid. At the moment its peak summer, schools out, morbidity is at record lows, hospitals reasonably in good shape if we could deal with the dreaded NHS App ping ( yes you can all put your phones together in the changing rooms and you will get pinged regardless if you have ever set your eyes on the one with Covid ) so if we are going to go for it and open up, its now or next spring, which is it going to be ?

 

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15 minutes ago, LeoV said:

But uptake declines v quickly below the at-risk (over 50) age groups.

Perhaps because they are at less risk?

Up to February 2021 470,000 under 18's had caught Covid-19.  61 of the 3,100 that died from all causes tested positive to Covid-19.  Researchers have concluded that on 25 were actually caused by Covid-19 and of those 25 nineteen (19) had a serious preexisting health condition.

So that is an IFR of 0.005% i.e.  99.995% survive!

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^^^^ .....or more likely, because over the over 50 cohort had priority access, they got the jab earlier....and have completed both jabs. Because younger cohorts got it later, the figures are showing the gap in time between first and second jabs...so wait and see. Not sure people are getting jab #1 but refusing Jab #2....

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8 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

US does not use same vaccine as UK. Both can be true.

Actually not true, all in the under 40 age group who are most of the hospital cases at the moment getting Pfizer and moderna.

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Freedom day was not planned after everyone had a chance to get a 2d shot. Is that because there are not enough slots to give them (personnel problem or lack of vaccine) or that more people are refusing them. Rate of vaccination slowing down in the UK, is now equal as on Jan 16th. 0.35 per 100 K residents. Peak was 0.9. Median since Feb, above 0.6. So rate halved. Source FT.

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It is so weird;

 

The unjabbed can go clubbing tonight but not in September, give them the opportunity to spend two months spreading the virus in precisely the sort of environment the scientific and medical experts have said is most dangerous. As proven in Israel and the Netherlands. But in September you can only enter if double jabbed...
It's either safe now, in which case why Covid passports in September? Or it isn't safe now, so why reopen? Or is it to protect the NHS in winter time by isolating unjabbed from September and try to convince more people to get a jab ? Or is there no plan, and just a political game to keep the party happy.

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

Freedom day was not planned after everyone had a chance to get a 2d shot. Is that because there are not enough slots to give them (personnel problem or lack of vaccine) or that more people are refusing them. 

Neither of those. The rationale has been explained multiple times in this thread. You can agree with it or not but putting some other motivation on it entirely does not contribute to anyone's understanding. Oh, and the term "Freedom Day" was buried some weeks ago.

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It's "Surrender Day" in the UK...when the govt acknowledges that it has lost all control, doesn't have a plan and can't deal with the media commentators of the Right demanding business interests take precedence over health.....Boris screams..."all too hard, let 'er rip!". Of course, once public outcry demands action, they'll flip again with much hand wringing.....following populist demands is what passes for "leadership" these days!

 

 

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16 hours ago, LeoV said:

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It emerged today that everyone over 18 has now been offered a jab. But uptake declines v quickly below the at-risk (over 50) age groups. Latest: http://data.spectator.co.uk

Presumably we can assume that everyone who has had a 1st dose is going to get a 2nd dose. That is pretty good vaccine take up compared to the USA.

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It is so hard to tell from the UK headlines and sound bites , how effective the vaccine is against the Delta variant.

What we need to see is what proportion of truly vaccinated people of similar age group pursuing similar activities are catching covid vs proportion of unvaccinated people.

At least within the age groups.

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6 hours ago, The Main Man said:

^ and some of us over 40s got moderna too as that was what they were dishing out locally. 

and me Phizer at age 63 as that was our local allocation..

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is so hard to tell from the UK headlines and sound bites , how effective the vaccine is against the Delta variant.

What we need to see is what proportion of truly vaccinated people of similar age group pursuing similar activities are catching covid vs proportion of unvaccinated people.

At least within the age groups.

And by type of vaccine, AZ, mRNA etc?

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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/react-1-study-of-coronavirus-transmission-may-2021-final-results/react-1-study-of-coronavirus-transmission-may-2021-final-results if you want to sit down for a good long read. Dogwatch contributed some blood to this survey, the largest on C19 prevalence undertaken in the UK.

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^^^^ in short, get a jab.

The main findings from the first half of the thirteenth round of the REACT-1 study show:

  • overall prevalence nationally is substantially higher in round 13 interim (swabs taken 24 June to 5 July) than round 12 (swabs taken 20 May to 7 June), rising from 0.15% to 0.59% – an approximately fourfold increase with around 1 in 170 people testing positive
  • continued exponential growth in prevalence with an average doubling time of 15 days between round 12 (swabs taken 20 May to 7 June) and round 13
  • however, during the first half of round 13 only, there was a doubling time of 6.1 days with a corresponding R value of 1.87
  • there have been substantial increases in all age groups under the age of 75 years, and especially at younger ages, with the highest prevalence for 13 to 17 years at 1.33% and 18 to 24 years at 1.40%
  • infections have increased in all regions with the largest increase in London, where prevalence has increased more than eightfold from 0.13% in round 12 to 1.08% in round 13
  • in people aged 64 or younger, the prevalence of infection among those who had received 2 doses of vaccine was 0.35% compared with 1.15% among those who had not received any vaccine, demonstrating the impact of the vaccination rollout
  • prevalence is increasing to a lesser extent among those vaccinated, rising from 0.06% in people aged 65 and above who reported receiving 2 doses in round 12, to 0.24% in the same group in round 13.
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