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WTF is Boris doing? Again?!


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13 hours ago, Albatros said:

somewhat funny, they are now talking about a "pingdemic" because the british app that warns you when you have been close to a positive seems to be going in overdrive and hundreds of thousands are told to go in quarantine, resulting also in another case of empty shelves in supermarkets, companies getting in trouble for lack of personnel etc...

Lurid headlines but I'm yet to notice any empty shelves. The meat processing industry seems most affected, same as it was in the USA at one point. What does that say about working conditions? Enough to turn you veggie (well, almost).

 

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Having worked as a maintenance man for a Major supermarket chain, empty shelves at the moment are more likely to be caused by failure of the refrigerator cooling systems.. UK refrigerators just aren't spec'ed for several days of over 30C (86F) as we've had this week and supermarket management are likely to do stupid things like parking containers for extra storage in front of the air flow for the cooling packs.

As for shortages I've been in two local supermarkets in the last week, neither had major shelves empty. There was the odd hole where the hot weather has meant a run on some Ice creams, fizzy drinks etc.. but that is not unusual for this weather....

back to normal this weekend 100mm of rain forecast.

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31 minutes ago, The Q said:

Having worked as a maintenance man for a Major supermarket chain, empty shelves at the moment are more likely to be caused by failure of the refrigerator cooling systems.. UK refrigerators just aren't spec'ed for several days of over 30C (86F) as we've had this week and supermarket management are likely to do stupid things like parking containers for extra storage in front of the air flow for the cooling packs.

As for shortages I've been in two local supermarkets in the last week, neither had major shelves empty. There was the odd hole where the hot weather has meant a run on some Ice creams, fizzy drinks etc.. but that is not unusual for this weather....

back to normal this weekend 100mm of rain forecast.

Heh. The English do not understand the concept of refrigerated cold drinks. If it's on the floor or on the shelf "Well,that's cold innit?" 

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Yep, that is why they took action.

SUPERMARKET SWEEP: Put down that extra pack of loo roll! Ministers have introduced daily testing for key workers in the food industry to avoid the need for self-isolation — and hopefully end the scenes of empty shelves and barren delivery slots which have been giving us all flashbacks of the onset of the first lockdown. The latest NHS figures show 607,486 people in England were ordered to quarantine in the week up to July 14, a 17 percent increase on the previous week. The lifeline for food retail follows urgent talks between Health Secretary Sajid Javid, Environment Secretary George Eustice and supermarket bosses as they scrambled to secure the supply chain. 

How it will work: Up to 500 priority testing sites will be set up at speed, including the largest supermarket distribution centers, with rollout to hundreds of sites planned to start next week, with up to 500 sites in scope. All workers who have received the dreaded ping and been told to isolate or have been contacted by Test and Trace will be able to continue working as long as they test negative.

If you’re not on the list: Last night the government also released the list (yes, the list it previously said wasn’t needed) of essential sectors which will be exempt from self-isolation rules, which covers energy workers, digital infrastructure, food production and supply, waste, water, vets, medical supplies, transport, emergency services, border control and local government.

Source; Politico.

Nothing to see..
It is obvious that if you have to isolate after contact, and let the cases rise, it could become a problem.

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I got pinged as a contact of a primary contact (Tier 2) yesterday and asked to get  a test which I did at 11am yesterday (2hr waiting time). Neg result back at 6.30 AM this morning, free to go to work. so, it depends on how fast the test system works.

It seems brain dead to me to be attempting to contact and test when there's hundreds of thousands of covid positive  people and their primary contacts running around in the community.

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I really am afraid it's gotten past the traditional Australian means of knocking down point outbreaks, at least in NSW. Delta is just different. Even Republicans in the US are urging vaccination now. (The breakthrough thing is poorly reported, most are caught by a test required for work or because they are close contacts. Most are not symptomatic at all. There is talk of switching from "cases" to "illnesses" but that's less clickbaity.)

But I digress. My NSW contacts say people still are acting as if it's 2020.  Salon closed? Run local tasker ads for someone to come to house to do nails. Gawd. Just not getting the memo. No one can have any idea how many silent Delta chains are running out there.

Glad you are ok. And yes, we evil ones are stockpiling Pfizer for our children.  But congrats on your reef not being endangered after all.

 

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

I really am afraid it's gotten past the traditional Australian means of knocking down point outbreaks, at least in NSW. Delta is just different. Even Republicans in the US are urging vaccination now. (The breakthrough thing is poorly reported, most are caught by a test required for work or because they are close contacts. Most are not symptomatic at all. There is talk of switching from "cases" to "illnesses" but that's less clickbaity.)

But I digress. My NSW contacts say people still are acting as if it's 2020.  Salon closed? Run local tasker ads for someone to come to house to do nails. Gawd. Just not getting the memo. No one can have any idea how many silent Delta chains are running out there.

Glad you are ok. And yes, we evil ones are stockpiling Pfizer for our children.  But congrats on your reef not being endangered after all.

 

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Just goes to show the importance of stupidity in prolonging a pandemic.

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Guys, when the now majority of cases in the U.K. are in the young and are without any symptoms, really only being picked up by lateral flow tests ( of which they are actually not that reliable ) then as much as you want to cry lock down and call anyone clueless moving about, then I would suggest that it’s ferkin hard if you are skint, self employed without any prospect of government support and without a hint of Covid symptoms, not to turn off the NHS App and get out there working to pay off a bit of your debt from the previous 18 months of having no income.

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Guys, when the now majority of cases in the U.K. are in the young and are without any symptoms, really only being picked up by lateral flow tests ( of which they are actually not that reliable ) then as much as you want to cry lock down and call anyone clueless moving about, then I would suggest that it’s ferkin hard if you are skint, self employed without any prospect of government support and without a hint of Covid symptoms, not to turn off the NHS App and get out there working to pay off a bit of your debt from the previous 18 months of having no income.

So why can't they wear masks? Mask while you work. Construction workers here  have done it two summers voluntary and its hotter than the UK. But our guys are more macho, apparently. Delivery drivers, HVAC, etc too. They don't want customer cooties.

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Masks, really, they are just a small part of preventative spread. Unless you are prepared to use really good quality face fitting respirator types then you are just blowing COVID into the wind around every edge of the mask. 

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Well fitting masks with no face gaps are better than inhaling all the covid that's blowing in the wind.

Those shonky cheap surgical masks with big gaps on sides are not what I mean. 

Legit KN95s are readily available. Or washable nonwoven masks that test at over 80%. It's better than nothing. Unless you handle them wrong and rub your eyes and nose, not lol.

Sure they are a PART but if nobody around is doing anything to prevent spread you can do your best for yourself. 

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Guys, remember that Wayne is our resident UK troll, not quite as expert as our USA troll Wess, or our NZ troll Kate. Best just ignore his misinformation.

His claims are bogus as always with these trolls, e.g. all infections in young are without consequence, and wearing a mask has little protective effect.

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3 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Guys, remember that Wayne is our resident UK troll, not quite as expert as our USA troll Wess, or our NZ troll Kate. Best just ignore his misinformation.

His claims are bogus as always with these trolls, e.g. all infections in young are without consequence, and wearing a mask has little protective effect.

Ah. Ha.

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12 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Guys, remember that Wayne is our resident UK troll, not quite as expert as our USA troll Wess, or our NZ troll Kate. Best just ignore his misinformation.

His claims are bogus as always with these trolls, e.g. all infections in young are without consequence, and wearing a mask has little protective effect.

So what you are saying is that someone whose only connection to the U.K. is via a keyboard and has absolutely no idea of the actual conditions on the ground in the U.K., can say with absolute conviction that anyone who actually is living and breathing the U.K. should be discounted as everything they say must be bogus. Reminds me of some of the Hollywood remakes of history of late.

You and Whacko Jacko should partner up.

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19 hours ago, LeoV said:

UK strategy can only work if the virus will be running out of people to infect.

Which obviously, at some point it will. People will be double-vaccinated or have immunity after infection or avoid situations in which they could be infected. 

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9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Which obviously, at some point it will. People will be double-vaccinated or have immunity after infection or avoid situations in which they could be infected. 

Or not. Immunity can reduce over time.. reinfection is happening, in the UK too. Still a drop though. 0.5% with limited testing for it.
And at which cost ? We will know end Sep.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It’s now two weeks since coronavirus restrictions were lifted on July 19, and all the conventional wisdom says cases should be on the rise by now. No sign yet. Good news for now.

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It is a bit of a puzzle why cases are dropping. Decreased testing has something to do with it but insufficient to explain the full extent.  Most restrictions in the UK were already lifted in June and it actually seems people are behaving more cautiously now than they were then. For instance, pubs and nightclubs are complaining about poor attendances e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/reopened-nightclubs-in-england-face-twilight-zone-as-covid-keeps-customers-away  and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/01/covid-caution-dampens-the-heady-promises-of-freedom-day . The assumption that we'd party like it was 2019 has not so far been borne out. Given the recent peak in cases, arguably many people are looking at the news and reacting rationally to it.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

It is a bit of a puzzle why cases are dropping. Decreased testing has something to do with it but insufficient to explain the full extent.  Most restrictions in the UK were already lifted in June and it actually seems people are behaving more cautiously now than they were then. For instance, pubs and nightclubs are complaining about poor attendances e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/31/reopened-nightclubs-in-england-face-twilight-zone-as-covid-keeps-customers-away  and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/01/covid-caution-dampens-the-heady-promises-of-freedom-day . The assumption that we'd party like it was 2019 has not so far been borne out. Given the recent peak in cases, arguably many people are looking at the news and reacting rationally to it.

I guess some thinking people smell Boris's bullshit.

EDIT: That he nearly died, has made no difference to him.  He's happy for others to die to please his financiers.

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A few reasons, if they align, all is good. Fewer left to infect, but if 5% of the population get Covid and needs hospitalisation...
Most import in the next months is death rate and hospitalisations. And results will only be shown after months. To early to judge.
 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

No I was speculating on why cases were dropping. Maybe fewer left to infect.

Yes. Apparently 90% of UK adults now have Covid antibodies, most by vaccination, the rest by infection. Of course, that doesn't guarantee you won't catch it.

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7 minutes ago, LeoV said:

A few reasons, if they align, all is good. Fewer left to infect, but if 5% of the population get Covid and needs hospitalisation...
Most import in the next months is death rate and hospitalisations. And results will only be shown after months. To early to judge.
 

Anecdotal but there's a little local family-orientated music festival I go to most years. A month ago it was advertising "mask free". Now, "mask advised in crowded areas". They seem to have figured out that their demographic (mostly 40+) is still nervous.

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Interesting travelling in London at the moment, on the way to a The Hundred cricket match we were turfed off the overhead train onto the underground with a " trespasser on line " problem. Real mixed bag of over 40's wearing masks, some young women wearing masks and the rest without. Virtually the same everywhere else with some with and some without.

Typically if you were under 30 and male then without was the norm, which I guess is where the age group vaccine take up is now slowing down.

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15 hours ago, LeoV said:

A few reasons, if they align, all is good. Fewer left to infect, but if 5% of the population get Covid and needs hospitalisation...
Most import in the next months is death rate and hospitalisations. And results will only be shown after months. To early to judge.
 

Whats going to happen if we see a resurgence of the " Flu " numbers of deaths as we come into the winter, which is it going to be logged as Covid or Flu on the death certificate as almost for sure if you go into a hospital at the moment, you are going to come out having been exposed to Covid, as a friend has just discovered.

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19 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

No I was speculating on why cases were dropping. Maybe fewer left to infect.

Or people getting scared and taking precautions.... including staying home

- DSK

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Nah life’s pretty much back to normal here except people have wised up to how much they were spending on hospitality. At The Hundred cricket game at Lords I went to, the normally full hospitality boxes were almost empty, at the bars around the ground were only sort of full.

Hospitality pre COVID as we knew it may never be the same post COVID.

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Looks to me like Boris' bet on opening up is going to work, combination of folk behaving, near herd immunity, and far younger ages of those left to get infected. I thought you all were on the right track at the beginning of this thread.

Unfortunately the US is not as we still have about 40% of the population vulnerable, so our trajectory going into the fall is horrible. Locally we have a really bad trajectory with 12X increase in a month and positivity rate up to 7%. YUCK

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Looks good, but wait a few months.
Today the US and UK have the same death rate per 100K, 6 times higher then here. But still low, if it does not rise to much, it can be called a right timing.
 

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6 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Looks to me like Boris' bet on opening up is going to work, combination of folk behaving, near herd immunity, and far younger ages of those left to get infected. I thought you all were on the right track at the beginning of this thread.

Unfortunately the US is not as we still have about 40% of the population vulnerable, so our trajectory going into the fall is horrible. Locally we have a really bad trajectory with 12X increase in a month and positivity rate up to 7%. YUCK

UK Kids go back to school in September. American kids around now?

I'd not be making any assumptions about Boris's gamble until The Season Of Mists and Mellow Fruitfulness comes knocking.

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6 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Looks to me like Boris' bet on opening up is going to work, combination of folk behaving, near herd immunity, and far younger ages of those left to get infected.

Even though I would not piss on BoJo if he were on fire, since I live in the UK, I hope you are right. Truth is, nobody knows right now. After dropping, case rates seem to be plateaued, at a much lower level than had been forecast. So far, so good. We don't have herd immunity in the population as a whole, remember almost nobody under 18 has so far been vaccinated in the UK.

The issue we now have is that the number of 1st vaccines being given has become quite small (around 1M a month, at peak we were vaccinating 500K a day). That seems to be more about demand than supply. After hearing for nearly 18 months that they don't personally need to be too concerned about Covid, the young are tending to believe it. Hence various campaigns to get them into the vaccine centres e.g much publicity over cases of young and fit dying and proposed vaccine passports to get into nightclubs.

In a few weeks, when schools and unis go back and outdoor living turns to indoor, then we may know if reopening was the right move.

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US Delta surge in full swing. Despite as many vaccine doses available as we can possibly need.  For the same reasons as are true everywhere, our vaccination rate was disappointing. Although the mortality rate will be much lower ,  it will be applied to a larger number. Sadly it will be a blend of unvaccinated people who thought they were in good health and vaccinated people who got unlucky. 

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

Looks good, but wait a few months.
Today the US and UK have the same death rate per 100K, 6 times higher then here. But still low, if it does not rise to much, it can be called a right timing.
 

Interesting to see the Excess Death rate of the likes of the Netherlands and the UK at the moment, I think 6 x times maybe in LeoV's " everything is better in the Netherlands " world

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Fascinating to see the negative values over previous years and how for long periods in 2021 the Netherlands has had a higher excess death rate than England.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

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You should never try to understand a RM stability curve.

And 6 times is correct. And that is what we are talking about here.

NL; 0.022 per 100K Aug 4
UK; 0.122 per 100K Aug 4.
 

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

You should never try to understand a RM stability curve.

And 6 times is correct. And that is what we are talking about here.

NL; 0.022 per 100K Aug 4
UK; 0.122 per 100K Aug 4.
 

Leo thats just one day of Covid deaths, much better to take an average over months of excess deaths as not all countries have the same definitions of what constitutes a Covid death.

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

You should never try to understand a RM stability curve.

And 6 times is correct. And that is what we are talking about here.

NL; 0.022 per 100K Aug 4
UK; 0.122 per 100K Aug 4.
 

So you are taking two small and highly fluctuating figures, comparing them for a single day and drawing a conclusion that you happen to find emotionally satisfying. 

By any rational view, neither NL nor UK have very much to crow about as far as handling of the pandemic is concerned. Both have looked relatively good and bad at different times.

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^^^^ 7 day rolling number.  And we are talking about what is happening since freedom day.
I do not crow, but it is interesting. with 40 cases per 100K Netherlands restricted mass events, nightlife. And UK loosened them with the same numbers.

Sod off with your psychology and use it for wayne.
I said looks good, both are low, but still there is a difference who places UK closer to US.
 

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34 minutes ago, LeoV said:

^^^^ 7 day rolling number.  And we are talking about what is happening since freedom day.
I do not crow, but it is interesting. with 40 cases per 100K Netherlands restricted mass events, nightlife. And UK loosened them with the same numbers.
 

Wasn't the Netherlands one of the first EU countries to open up, only to loose their bottle when cases started rise. Also their schools shut earlier than ours for the summer hols as well.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/netherlands-re-imposes-covid-19-curbs-due-infection-surge-2021-07-09/

Now that was a few weeks ahead of the UK and on the basis that the UK's began to rise after the initial opening up, but now seem to be settling down, isn't that sort of following the Netherlands lead / time line ?

Love the psycology bit, Leo belongs in the school of the computer world, where you can gather information and stats to support your leftie anti Boris views. Alas the rest of us live in the real world, you know the one where Covid totally ferks with your business and your expectations of impending retirement and crusing on a big cat are dashed.

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11 hours ago, LeoV said:

^^^village idiot.

The classic musing of the left ( he has openly stated that his politics is left of centre on other threads ) caught cherry picking stats of his beloved Netherlands, where in his internet driven world, eeeeeevvvvvvvveeeerrryy thing is the best in the world, throw in a personal insult.

Or could the difference between the Netherlands and the U.K. simply be the amount of testing for COVID being carried out, we are after all very similar countries ? In my view there are dozens of other parameters that should be considered to make assumptions rather than take one stat.

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  • 3 months later...

This seems to be a good time to revisit this old post. Given the recent recent riots & protests in the Netherlands & Austria (Which I don't think even Leo could blame us for this time) I'm starting to feel like we're not even close to being the only idiots in town.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're back working from home before long.

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1 hour ago, MiddayGun said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me if we're back working from home before long.

Those who can, at my factory haven't stopped working from home, as we make equipment, that's only about 25% of staff ( design, personnel, finance). We haven't reduced restrictions, you leave your desk or in my case my lab, in which I'm the only person, you wear a mask, sanitising hands before entering any other department.

Also another company the biggest employer in the city, 31,000 employees in the UK, last year announced that they expect ALL staff to spend at least 50% of their time WFH permanently..  That company has already closed down a large building they will no longer use.

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19 minutes ago, The Q said:

Those who can, at my factory haven't stopped working from home, as we make equipment, that's only about 25% of staff ( design, personnel, finance). We haven't reduced restrictions, you leave your desk or in my case my lab, in which I'm the only person, you wear a mask, sanitising hands before entering any other department.

Also another company the biggest employer in the city, 31,000 employees in the UK, last year announced that they expect ALL staff to spend at least 50% of their time WFH permanently..  That company has already closed down a large building they will no longer use.

I'd be OK with that to be honest. 
I work for an offshore wind power company & with a couple of screens, a TETRA radio responder & a solid internet connection it would be easy to do the whole lot from my house. Unfortunately I don't think it will go down that way & there are some advantages to the work environment. 

However given how bad its looking in Europe I may end up eating my words. 

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2 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

This seems to be a good time to revisit this old post. Given the recent recent riots & protests in the Netherlands & Austria (Which I don't think even Leo could blame us for this time) I'm starting to feel like we're not even close to being the only idiots in town.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're back working from home before long.

Yep, the "it'll be fine" theorists jumped the gun...but deaths are down considerably from peaks...but excess deaths are creeping up a bit. UK looks to be in slow-burn territory now.

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I think Boris is more afraid of the anti vaxxers having riots... I'm betting Renta Mob is just getting ready to have a riot, even if they aren't anti vax.

I think we are not having such a peak as say the Nederlands is: A, because of our high vaccination rate and B, because many of the others have self vaccinated by having caught Covid already..

Interestingly I've just been reading a series of books on WW2, This is of course before most other vaccinations came about in general use.. The books list numbers that were dying every year from what are now preventable by vaccination diseases in the UK. It's a surprisingly high number, but it was just accepted by the public..

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6 hours ago, MiddayGun said:

This seems to be a good time to revisit this old post. Given the recent recent riots & protests in the Netherlands & Austria (Which I don't think even Leo could blame us for this time) I'm starting to feel like we're not even close to being the only idiots in town.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're back working from home before long.

What a hypocrite you are, months of higher case load and deaths in the UK, and no word. Now a few days the case load here is higher then the UK, you start posting here.

In short, the UK let it run after "freedom" day and accepted higher death numbers, here the rules led to lower death number. And the restrictions were very light, nightlife and festivals. Now getting more strict again.

Riots here, people already got sentenced with jail time, 2 months for throwing rocks. More aggressive rioters will get more but case takes longer to bring for judges. All now sentenced had a criminal record regarding violence. No Xmas at home for them.

I feel safe as the numbers constantly showing that vaccinated people in hospitals and IC all had underlying health problems.
Do not have those health problems. I adhere to the rules to protect the older vaccinated with problems.

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9 hours ago, LeoV said:

What a hypocrite you are, months of higher case load and deaths in the UK, and no word. Now a few days the case load here is higher then the UK, you start posting here.

What? Commenting that I feel like we're not the only idiots in town because there are violent protests against Covid restrictins in other countries makes me a hypocrite? 
I don't think you understand what the word means. 
Fuck it wasn't even a comment on how the Netherlands is running things, just pointing out its nice to see that covidiosy is no way exclusive to the UK. 

Yes I made a comment that you probably couldn't blame us for the riots, it wasn't a personal attack, it was a tongue in cheek comment. Chill the fuck out.

Ironically you call me a hypocrite yet you yourself spend a large portion of your time on here criticising the UK, but go quiet when the boots on the other foot. The very thing you're accusing me of. 

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I got your point, the moment you feel the UK is not the only idiot on Covid, you open this again. Not before. Should have used cynical opportunist instead of hypocrite. Sorry for that. You mentioning my name in a demeaning manor is childish. TIC et all.

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