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Can someone please explain to me why Shanghai Sailor is always able to have his posts slapped up on the Front Page? To be honest, his latest serving of pablum is nothing more than blatant propaga

Shanghai Sailor is a long-term positive contributor to SA and SAAC. Not very fair to attack him just because you don't like China. And yes, this belongs on PA; it isn't about sailing, it's about your

AJ is without a doubt the biggest, stupidest & most irrelevant jackoff on these forums. I often agree & disagree with the same people on different topics but almost all of them also offer

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21 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

You're right, they even have gone into your brain, it seems.

Try Clorox!

How so?

Did you eat paint chips when you were a kid?

It would explain this post.

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Wow we have lost the true intent of these forums. We have all seen back  in the day bumper sticker that said: live to sail. It’s no longer true. Get your boat and sail to live. Live offshore. Smart and most importantly safe. The end. 

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8 minutes ago, Kevlar Edge said:

Wow we have lost the true intent of these forums. We have all seen back  in the day bumper sticker that said: live to sail. It’s no longer true. Get your boat and sail to live. Live offshore. Smart and most importantly safe. The end. 

2,487 posts with a rep score of 8.

Yup, a lot of folks are drinking your Kool-Aid.

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On 7/10/2021 at 1:14 AM, OneWorldSailing said:

Can someone please explain to me why Shanghai Sailor is always able to have his posts slapped up on the Front Page?

To be honest, his latest serving of pablum is nothing more than blatant propaganda for the PRC.

International judges will find out quickly that participating in this “30 boat regatta” is going to cost them dearly. Anyone entering that hell hole of a country will need to be quarantined for 14 days AND are required to receive a jab of China’s miracle cure vaccine. A western vaccine does not count.

I have done business in China for over 20 years, and I met my wife there. All her family still resides there and the news we have received about the virus over the past 18 months is much different than what the PRC government has spoon-fed the rest of the world.

As of today, 606,000 Americans have died from covid. If that does not faze you. how about the fact that 37.5% of American small businesses have disappeared? In California, it is 39.1%.

There should be no debate where covid came from and more specifically, when. It happened in Wuhan, China in October of 2019. My wife’s mother and grandparents live there, and the stories are out of a Bradbury or Crichton science fiction novel. And despite what you are hearing, it is still there.

You would think the government would have gone out of its way to assist the rest of the world in combating this plague. It didn’t. Just a steady stream of denials and a steadfast refusal to cooperate with health science professionals.

Instead of assisting the world in dealing with this unfolding tragedy, China used that precious time to set its plan to ethnically cleanse 11 million Turkic Muslims. Today, there are over 1 million are still being detained and are undergoing a “re-education” program.

At the same time, we all sat and watched Hong Kong fall.  Jimmy Lai, the owner of Hong Kong’s largest newspaper was placed in prison for a minimum of 14 months. He was charged with taking part in an unauthorized assembly. Shortly after that, the government raided the newspaper’s office and arrested several of its top journalists. Its chief editor was denied bail after being charged with collusion with a foreign country. The paper closed its doors on June 24th after the government froze all its assets.

With no repercussions from the west on the above, they are now moving ahead to claim the real prize. Taiwan.

Do not get me wrong, I have no beef with the people of China. All they care about is earning a living and taking care of their families. Most do not like the party and government but due to fear will never publicly voice their discontent.

The CCP is a proven danger to this country and the world. They have killed over 600,000 of our citizens and destroyed over a third of our small businesses.

Where is the outrage? Will there ever be a time when people stand up and say NO MORE?

Shanghai Sailor says:

“No moaning about the death of sailing here in the PRC, more and more are getting into our sport and the CCCM is proof that when things are done right, Chinese sailors want to be part of the action.

 Well, I am glad to hear you are enjoying yourself and the sport is expanding. Based on today’s demographics of the U.S. sailor, one may deduce that the virus has taken a big bite out of an already dwindling number.

I lost two family members due to covid. One was young and took her life. The other was an old salt that taught me a lot about sailing. 

Every time I read these puff pieces, my blood boils.

Publishing them as news is indicative of denial or to pretend this was all a bad dream.

Go back to Trump world

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10 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

Go back to Trump world

Not sure what Trump has to do with this thread. I don't recall his name being brought up at all. 

But isn't it somewhat hypocritical when you posted this about a month ago?

"Fuck me what a shitshow, this thread would be improved if the entire chinese army crapped in porta potties then turned them upside on top of it. Barnabarna, you can fuck right off for a start, you aint building that vapourware abortion and as sure as all that chinese creamy crap flowing all over SA, you aint ever going to sail in it.

To the rest of you inmates, cant you recognise another case of munchausen boat building by proxy?"

 

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On 7/9/2021 at 2:17 PM, OneWorldSailing said:

A regatta in Hong Kong versus one in China are two entirely different affairs.

One is quite proper and the other is a shit show.

One understands and respects the rules and the other doesn't know they exist.

The sport will never take off in China unless the government underwrites it. The average person in China spends an entire year's income to buy an iPhone. Not sure how they will swing the cost of a sailboat.

The 'average person' in rest of the world cannot afford to sail either. There are probably 400 million Chinese who could afford to sail and most of them live near the coast. With the exception of Olympic sailing, the Chinese government could care less about sailing. We considered visiting China during our world cruise but it was just way too expensive. Spent some time with the manager of the marina on Hainan island who learned her trade at a marina in North Carolina of all places. She said she would be happy for us to come but it would be about US$2500 in fees to get there (plus the marina charges which were not cheap) and once there we could only day sail and return each evening. We could only go to the next marina up the coast - no anchoring/no gunk holing and it would be another $2500 for each marina we visited. The marina was very nice but only about 1/4 full. The Chinese rich realize that rich people belong to YCs and there were two Ferraris and a Rolls-Royce in the parking lot. The manager said that people buy a boat, most often a power boat around 50' and just sit on it and entertain since they do not know how to operate it. China only allows new boats to be imported and the luxury tax is something like 100%.

We almost ended up as paid captains of a new Tayana 53 (52? 54?) that was to be used as a base for a reality TV show that would gradually move from China to Venice. The route was loosely tied to the Belt and Road Initiative. Young starlets would fly into various venues to get video of them in their bikinis in 'exotic' locations along the way . They wanted my wife because she was the first Chinese woman to sail around the world, although not a Chinese citizen. They wanted me since they like to have a western 'expert' in a show which features something novel to Chinese eyes. The producer said I would have to grow a beard because it fits the image of a sailor. A tough gig for me, just had to look stoic and try not to drool in front of the cameras. We were to pick up the boat at the factory in Taiwan and take it to China (registered in Malaysia to same money). Thee first season of the show was to be mainly China and into SE Asia, with a second season carrying on from there. The boat was built and was sitting in the yard (and paid for I assume) but I think the money for the show didn't appear as expected so the project fell apart. Something like this would help promote non-Olympic sailing in the country. Cruising does interest a core group of people in the country but it is very hard to actually do it and cost is not one of the obstacles. My wife did a book about our travels and did a book tour to a number of locales. I went with her a couple of times. In Beijing there is a monthly sailing meeting and a couple of young 20s girls recognized June and came rushing up. They had forgotten her name but remembered the boat name and came up calling 'Ainia, Ainia!' (Ai Ni means love you in Chinese). Very much like groupies. In Shenzhen, the YC has two locations - one where the boats are kept and a downtown one that Is built into the soccer stadium. It was perhaps the most elegant (and costly) room I have ever been in.

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19 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The 'average person' in rest of the world cannot afford to sail either. There are probably 400 million Chinese who could afford to sail and most of them live near the coast. With the exception of Olympic sailing, the Chinese government could care less about sailing. We considered visiting China during our world cruise but it was just way too expensive. Spent some time with the manager of the marina on Hainan island who learned her trade at a marina in North Carolina of all places. She said she would be happy for us to come but it would be about US$2500 in fees to get there (plus the marina charges which were not cheap) and once there we could only day sail and return each evening. We could only go to the next marina up the coast - no anchoring/no gunk holing and it would be another $2500 for each marina we visited. The marina was very nice but only about 1/4 full. The Chinese rich realize that rich people belong to YCs and there were two Ferraris and a Rolls-Royce in the parking lot. The manager said that people buy a boat, most often a power boat around 50' and just sit on it and entertain since they do not know how to operate it. China only allows new boats to be imported and the luxury tax is something like 100%.

We almost ended up as paid captains of a new Tayana 53 (52? 54?) that was to be used as a base for a reality TV show that would gradually move from China to Venice. The route was loosely tied to the Belt and Road Initiative. Young starlets would fly into various venues to get video of them in their bikinis in 'exotic' locations along the way . They wanted my wife because she was the first Chinese woman to sail around the world, although not a Chinese citizen. They wanted me since they like to have a western 'expert' in a show which features something novel to Chinese eyes. The producer said I would have to grow a beard because it fits the image of a sailor. A tough gig for me, just had to look stoic and try not to drool in front of the cameras. We were to pick up the boat at the factory in Taiwan and take it to China (registered in Malaysia to same money). Thee first season of the show was to be mainly China and into SE Asia, with a second season carrying on from there. The boat was built and was sitting in the yard (and paid for I assume) but I think the money for the show didn't appear as expected so the project fell apart. Something like this would help promote non-Olympic sailing in the country. Cruising does interest a core group of people in the country but it is very hard to actually do it and cost is not one of the obstacles. My wife did a book about our travels and did a book tour to a number of locales. I went with her a couple of times. In Beijing there is a monthly sailing meeting and a couple of young 20s girls recognized June and came rushing up. They had forgotten her name but remembered the boat name and came up calling 'Ainia, Ainia!' (Ai Ni means love you in Chinese). Very much like groupies. In Shenzhen, the YC has two locations - one where the boats are kept and a downtown one that Is built into the soccer stadium. It was perhaps the most elegant (and costly) room I have ever been in.

I agree with just about everything in your post.

However, the average person in most western countries can easily afford to sail. You can pick up a used Sunfish or similar for $150.00. Or even a beautiful Snark for less than that.

I grew up in a middle class family in the Northeast where nothing came easy. But I was lucky to find a Kool cigarette retail display Snark that a 7-11 had just chucked into the garbage.

I grabbed it and sailed the piss out of it until my dad saved up for our first "real" boat.

I was the joke of Newport harbor. But I was sailing and it didn't cost me a penny.

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24 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The 'average person' in rest of the world cannot afford to sail either. There are probably 400 million Chinese who could afford to sail and most of them live near the coast. With the exception of Olympic sailing, the Chinese government could care less about sailing. We considered visiting China during our world cruise but it was just way too expensive. Spent some time with the manager of the marina on Hainan island who learned her trade at a marina in North Carolina of all places. She said she would be happy for us to come but it would be about US$2500 in fees to get there (plus the marina charges which were not cheap) and once there we could only day sail and return each evening. We could only go to the next marina up the coast - no anchoring/no gunk holing and it would be another $2500 for each marina we visited. The marina was very nice but only about 1/4 full. The Chinese rich realize that rich people belong to YCs and there were two Ferraris and a Rolls-Royce in the parking lot. The manager said that people buy a boat, most often a power boat around 50' and just sit on it and entertain since they do not know how to operate it. China only allows new boats to be imported and the luxury tax is something like 100%.

We almost ended up as paid captains of a new Tayana 53 (52? 54?) that was to be used as a base for a reality TV show that would gradually move from China to Venice. The route was loosely tied to the Belt and Road Initiative. Young starlets would fly into various venues to get video of them in their bikinis in 'exotic' locations along the way . They wanted my wife because she was the first Chinese woman to sail around the world, although not a Chinese citizen. They wanted me since they like to have a western 'expert' in a show which features something novel to Chinese eyes. The producer said I would have to grow a beard because it fits the image of a sailor. A tough gig for me, just had to look stoic and try not to drool in front of the cameras. We were to pick up the boat at the factory in Taiwan and take it to China (registered in Malaysia to same money). Thee first season of the show was to be mainly China and into SE Asia, with a second season carrying on from there. The boat was built and was sitting in the yard (and paid for I assume) but I think the money for the show didn't appear as expected so the project fell apart. Something like this would help promote non-Olympic sailing in the country. Cruising does interest a core group of people in the country but it is very hard to actually do it and cost is not one of the obstacles. My wife did a book about our travels and did a book tour to a number of locales. I went with her a couple of times. In Beijing there is a monthly sailing meeting and a couple of young 20s girls recognized June and came rushing up. They had forgotten her name but remembered the boat name and came up calling 'Ainia, Ainia!' (Ai Ni means love you in Chinese). Very much like groupies. In Shenzhen, the YC has two locations - one where the boats are kept and a downtown one that Is built into the soccer stadium. It was perhaps the most elegant (and costly) room I have ever been in.

I just re read @shanghaisailorShanghai Sailors article.   I honestly dont see the propaganda content in SS's article nor in Bristol's post. They are just first hand reports that give us some insight into what is happening in sailing in China.

Nothing in SS's report is supportive of the regime.  It is just a pimping article about a regatta.

There is nothing critical of the regime in the article either  and perhaps OW would like to see SS be openly critical about the regime.  If I take SS at his word that he is a British ex-pat living and working in China, I would not expect to see him take the personal risk to write an article critical of the regime.  Besides, he obviously finds much to like in China because he chooses to live there.

I am very critical of the Chinese regime but that is stuff that should be in PA.

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On 7/9/2021 at 11:44 AM, Keith said:

Ding Ding Ding, we have winner here folks.

The CCP is a serious issue.

Masquerading as a democracy for the outside world seems to be an easy game for the CCP to play.

Far too many people and governments are useful idiots in this game. 

Sad.

China does not 'masquerade as a democracy'. At no point in its history has it been a democracy. The word and the concept carry no weight in Chinese thought. For China and Chinese what matters is having effective government. Some emperors were magnificent, most were mediocre and some were dreadful. Post-Mao China has had effective government - just look at how far the country has come. To take one statistic - 850 million people have risen from poverty in less than 40 years. According to the World Bank, in 1981 88% of the population lived in poverty. By 2015 this number was 0.7%. No country in history has remotely done as well. The general feeling in the country was that good government provided security and the opportunity to prosper. This was certainly the case from Deng until the early part of the New Guy's reign. Xi Jinping started out with the image of a typical technocrat, perhaps more like a Hu Jintao than a Deng Xiaoping, let alone a Mao. In recent years he has set out to become a new sort of emperor. This started when he eliminated the normal term limit for his job and by redefining the ideology of the country with his name as part of the title Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism With Chinese Characteristics for a New Era. Many Chinese are not happy since the country seems less secure and money-making (and saving) opportunities are being restricted both for the Jack Ma types and ordinary citizens going shopping.

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11 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

I agree with just about everything in your post.

However, the average person in most western countries can easily afford to sail. You can pick up a used Sunfish or similar for $150.00. Or even a beautiful Snark for less than that.

I grew up in a middle class family in the Northeast where nothing came easy. But I was lucky to find a Kool cigarette retail display Snark that a 7-11 had just chucked into the garbage.

I grabbed it and sailed the piss out of it until my dad saved up for our first "real" boat.

I was the joke of Newport harbor. But I was sailing and it didn't cost me a penny.

But what you are talking about is not economic. Let's assume a Chinese kid got the free Snark, where would he keep it since almost everyone lives in an apartment. Also the yacht clubs, there might be about eight in the country are quite pricey. If you want to sail one design there are clubs for that and they are not expensive. If you have talent there is much more support than in the West. You mention your family's first real boat. That is where it falls apart in China. There are no cheap 30' Catalinas to be had. You need to buy new and only a few Chinese-made boats to be had such as Far East sport boats. BTW, be on the look out for more Chinese boats on the world market. They can't afford to make cheap shit to export, labour costs are much too high so they are going after the higher value-added markets including boats. I mentioned in another thread some time ago that China now makes as many cars as the US, Japan, and Germany combined. Many are exported and many more will be in the future. One of my sons is a Volvo mechanic. He says the Volvos made when it was Ford-owned are largely garbage but now that is is Chinese-owned (Geely Motors) the cars are terrific. Volvo will only sell all-electric cars by 2030. Want to bet that the technology will find its way into cheaper Geely's that will be widely exported?

Lots of Chinese people (as in hundreds of millions) can afford to sail but they are choosing other ways to spend their money. Pre-COVID the largest number of international tourists in the world were Chinese. MY BIL, who retired at 43 saying he had made enough money, is an avid golfer. He heads off to Thailand and places like that a few times a year with his buddies to play since golf in China is so expensive - think $500 a round for an average course.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

But what you are talking about is not economic. Let's assume a Chinese kid got the free Snark, where would he keep it since almost everyone lives in an apartment. Also the yacht clubs, there might be about eight in the country are quite pricey. If you want to sail one design there are clubs for that and they are not expensive. If you have talent there is much more support than in the West. You mention your family's first real boat. That is where it falls apart in China. There are no cheap 30' Catalinas to be had. You need to buy new and only a few Chinese-made boats to be had such as Far East sport boats. BTW, be on the look out for more Chinese boats on the world market. They can't afford to make cheap shit to export, labour costs are much too high so they are going after the higher value-added markets including boats. I mentioned in another thread some time ago that China now makes as many cars as the US, Japan, and Germany combined. Many are exported and many more will be in the future. One of my sons is a Volvo mechanic. He says the Volvos made when it was Ford-owned are largely garbage but now that is is Chinese-owned (Geely Motors) the cars are terrific. Volvo will only sell all-electric cars by 2030. Want to bet that the technology will find its way into cheaper Geely's that will be widely exported?

Lots of Chinese people (as in hundreds of millions) can afford to sail but they are choosing other ways to spend their money. Pre-COVID the largest number of international tourists in the world were Chinese. MY BIL, who retired at 43 saying he had made enough money, is an avid golfer. He heads off to Thailand and places like that a few times a year with his buddies to play since golf in China is so expensive - think $500 a round for an average course.

 

Actually, they don't all live in an apartments.

A Snark has a foam hull which is then dipped in a vat of plastic that creates a shell. They ae very light. They could transport it to the water just like I did. Simply built a little two wheeled trailer and hauled it with my bike.

Our families first boat was hardly a Catalina 30. He bought a beat-up wooden 16' Herreshoff sloop for $1,500 and we spent an entire year bringing that boat back to life. Wooden spars and two sets of sails. One was canvas.

Your take on China, its history, etc. are very different from mine. My wife was a professor of Chinese history at Wuhan University. So was her mother. I have been there more times than I care to count over the past 20 years. We also own a home there. I have no plans to ever return. Perhaps my wife will at some point in the future to sell it and see her family.

If you were being honest in your evaluation, perhaps you would address the toxic food chain there. Perhaps tell the audience that the big cities that look so awesome are actually only window dressing. Perhaps explain what you get when purchasing an apartment in those beautiful EMPTY buildings.  

Volvo's have always been a safe car but also garbage. That is prior to Ford buying them, during and after Geely bought them. All is ducky until you need to replace a part or repair them. No different than their marine engines. Chinese cars in general are death traps. Most are poorly constructed and all of them have a formaldehyde level that is not remotely close to being safe. 

I have played golf in China on several occasions and have yet to pay anywhere near $500 for a round. Your assertion is just plain false. There is very little in China that I would consider expensive. Real estate absolutely is. But an ex-pat could live like a king there if he or she could put up with the baggage it has.

We normally stay at the Beijing Hilton. As an Honors Club member, we stay in a one bedroom suite on the executive level for $250.00 a night. That includes a wait staff and free eats around the clock in the private dining area.

There is one problem though. There will be air conditioning throughout the main floor. But once you go up a floor, the rooms have a/c but the hallways are hot as hell.

I wouldn't touch a Chinese built sailboat with a ten foot pole. Especially anything that comes out of Hudson Wang's factory in Xiamen. Let's just say they are actually worse than the gas grills that he built for Home Depot and Lowes that had a defect in the propane line that caused them to catch fire and blow-up here in the states. The feds were not too happy about it.

But Chinese built sailboats are another thread and I tell you some stories that would make your toenails slide off.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

But what you are talking about is not economic. Let's assume a Chinese kid got the free Snark, where would he keep it since almost everyone lives in an apartment. Also the yacht clubs, there might be about eight in the country are quite pricey. If you want to sail one design there are clubs for that and they are not expensive. If you have talent there is much more support than in the West. You mention your family's first real boat. That is where it falls apart in China. There are no cheap 30' Catalinas to be had. You need to buy new and only a few Chinese-made boats to be had such as Far East sport boats. BTW, be on the look out for more Chinese boats on the world market. They can't afford to make cheap shit to export, labour costs are much too high so they are going after the higher value-added markets including boats. I mentioned in another thread some time ago that China now makes as many cars as the US, Japan, and Germany combined. Many are exported and many more will be in the future. One of my sons is a Volvo mechanic. He says the Volvos made when it was Ford-owned are largely garbage but now that is is Chinese-owned (Geely Motors) the cars are terrific. Volvo will only sell all-electric cars by 2030. Want to bet that the technology will find its way into cheaper Geely's that will be widely exported?

Lots of Chinese people (as in hundreds of millions) can afford to sail but they are choosing other ways to spend their money. Pre-COVID the largest number of international tourists in the world were Chinese. MY BIL, who retired at 43 saying he had made enough money, is an avid golfer. He heads off to Thailand and places like that a few times a year with his buddies to play since golf in China is so expensive - think $500 a round for an average course.

 

One other thing.

Your statistics regarding auto manufacturing are complete bullshit. Just an exercise in liars figure and figures lie.

China currently has around 30% of the total number of cars being built world-wide.

Within that 30%, are auto manufacturers that are owned by Japan, Germany, France, Italy, the U.S. etc. that build there.

And do you honestly believe consumers in the U.S. are actually going to buy a Chinese branded car? Perhaps a few. After all they bought the Yugo, but that didn't end well for Yugoslavia.

You do not seem to understand that companies are leaving China in droves and relocating their production in other companies where they can exploit low wages and not worry about the blow back that is coming regarding Covid, genocide, Hong Kong and Taiwan. They also do not have to worry about the government requiring complete blueprints to any product being manufactured there or the code used in some of the smart products.

 

 

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5 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

But Chinese built sailboats are another thread and I tell you some stories that would make your toenails slide off.

As long as we're mot offended it's all good.

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8 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

One other thing.

Your statistics regarding auto manufacturing are complete bullshit. Just an exercise in liars figure and figures lie.

China currently has around 30% of the total number of cars being built world-wide.

Within that 30%, are auto manufacturers that are owned by Japan, Germany, France, Italy, the U.S. etc. that build there.

And do you honestly believe consumers in the U.S. are actually going to buy a Chinese branded car? Perhaps a few. After all they bought the Yugo, but that didn't end well for Yugoslavia.

You do not seem to understand that companies are leaving China in droves and relocating their production in other companies where they can exploit low wages and not worry about the blow back that is coming regarding Covid, genocide, Hong Kong and Taiwan. They also do not have to worry about the government requiring complete blueprints to any product being manufactured there or the code used in some of the smart products.

 

 

Chinese brand cars are already being sold in most of the world including much of Europe and Australia. The export of cars to North America will be lead by the name brands you mention. Already one of the Buick's SUVs sold in North America is made in China (can't remember which one). The Chinese auto market is too large for Toyota, GM, BMW et al to ignore. Those big companies are not going anywhere. Thee Chinese plants are joint ventures with the Chinese partner in the controlling position.

I get the impression that your comments about China are based on what you want to be happening not what is happening. 

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8 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Actually, they don't all live in an apartments.

In the largest cities the vast majority of people do live in apartments. In Beijing, the traditional six floor buildings are everywhere. Now high rises are being built because of well money.

A Snark has a foam hull which is then dipped in a vat of plastic that creates a shell. They ae very light. They could transport it to the water just like I did. Simply built a little two wheeled trailer and hauled it with my bike.

Our families first boat was hardly a Catalina 30. He bought a beat-up wooden 16' Herreshoff sloop for $1,500 and we spent an entire year bringing that boat back to life. Wooden spars and two sets of sails. One was canvas.

OK, 16' Herreshoffs don't exist there. In either case you need somewhere to store your Snark, the Herreshoff (or Catalina).

Your take on China, its history, etc. are very different from mine. My wife was a professor of Chinese history at Wuhan University. So was her mother. I have been there more times than I care to count over the past 20 years. We also own a home there. I have no plans to ever return. Perhaps my wife will at some point in the future to sell it and see her family.

Not to compare wives, but mine left China to do her doctorate in Britain (engineering physics). As well as being reasonably famous in the Chinese sailing community she was a Red Guard. Basically all of her elementary/secondary school was during the Cultural Revolution which apparently quite fun for kids - lots of dancing and poster making, but terrible for academics. Her parents were both profs and provided this at home. 

If you were being honest in your evaluation, perhaps you would address the toxic food chain there. Perhaps tell the audience that the big cities that look so awesome are actually only window dressing. Perhaps explain what you get when purchasing an apartment in those beautiful EMPTY buildings.  

I am not trying to defend China. In many respects it is a horrible place, with a very dangerous and capable leader. The problem in the West is that we do not know enough about the country and much of what we think we know is out of date or otherwise wrong. In no way were my comments meant to be totally comprehensive. If we go down that route we need to get into dozens of aspects of Chinese society, economy, etc.

Volvo's have always been a safe car but also garbage. That is prior to Ford buying them, during and after Geely bought them. All is ducky until you need to replace a part or repair them. No different than their marine engines. Chinese cars in general are death traps. Most are poorly constructed and all of them have a formaldehyde level that is not remotely close to being safe. 

Current Volvos are made in Sweden and, I think, Belgium. My son said they are very reliable and easy to work on. His comparison is BMW and Audi.

I have played golf in China on several occasions and have yet to pay anywhere near $500 for a round. Your assertion is just plain false. There is very little in China that I would consider expensive. Real estate absolutely is. But an ex-pat could live like a king there if he or she could put up with the baggage it has.

I could not imagine living in most of China although I might make an exception for Kunming. 

I wouldn't touch a Chinese built sailboat with a ten foot pole. Especially anything that comes out of Hudson Wang's factory in Xiamen.

Like everything else when new things are being made in a country they are crap - think of the Hyundai Pony as a good example. Also consider the difference between the leaky teakies and the lovely boats now made in Taiwan. 

 

 

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Just got a text from our daughter that her friends now are claiming Covid is not a virus but caused by 5G, WTF, when will this insanity end?  (answer, probably not until the bug gets the non believers)  Appreciate SS's posts and what is the name of this site anyway?  I think Anarchy is in it.

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13 hours ago, IPLore said:

I just re read @shanghaisailorShanghai Sailors article.   I honestly dont see the propaganda content in SS's article nor in Bristol's post. They are just first hand reports that give us some insight into what is happening in sailing in China.

Nothing in SS's report is supportive of the regime.  It is just a pimping article about a regatta.

There is nothing critical of the regime in the article either  and perhaps OW would like to see SS be openly critical about the regime.  If I take SS at his word that he is a British ex-pat living and working in China, I would not expect to see him take the personal risk to write an article critical of the regime.  Besides, he obviously finds much to like in China because he chooses to live there.

I am very critical of the Chinese regime but that is stuff that should be in PA.

Thank you IPlore. I have re-read the article and cannot find a single political statement in it anywhere either. It is purely 'pimping' a regatta a number of ordinary sailors have spent a hell of a lot of effort over the years (this is the 17th edition) to make it as attractive a regatta to sailors as they possible can.

With the number of articles I have had published, either as my SA nom de plume or my own name in other media, I would be foolish to publish articles critical of the Chinese Government. In any case, I am non-political and any comments I may have included in the past are of situations witnessed with my own eyes or heard directly from trusted non-partisan sources. 

I am indeed a UK expat who has lived here in China for over 20 years, am married to a wonderful Chinese lady who has also got into sailing and we have both been heavily involved in the sailing scene here at all levels. The suggestion I am not had be rocking in my chair with laughter other than the fact that there was an inference that as a Chinese individual, my writing would be inferior

It is easy to be critical of the scene here but 20 years ago there was literally no Corinthian sailing at all and regulations are still being formulated. I remember getting excited a few years back when law was passed that any leisure vessel sailing from one province was mandated to provide a crew list to the authorities and report in when they arrived. In reality just mandating advice that the UK's MCA had been promoting for years. What got me excited was leisure boating had been recognised enough for legislative time had been invested to enact those regulations when the priority was/is feeding the nation.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither has the sailing scene anywhere. In the UK the initial catalyst was the plywood revolution in the 1960's. Here perhaps it will eventually come with the growing wealth particularly amongst the middle classes. Why should people be denied the opportunity to enjoy our wonderful sport just because of where they live or who governs them?  

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3 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Actually, they don't all live in an apartments.

In the largest cities the vast majority of people do live in apartments. In Beijing, the traditional six floor buildings are everywhere. Now high rises are being built because of well money.

Mostly correct. Land prices in ALL major cities - look at Manhattan or Central London as just 2 examples. are such it is more economic to build up rather than out. There is also an element of land usage. If all Chinese lived in single occupancy buildings where would they grow the food? BUT the prime reason is indeed money. I personally live in 1 of 2 villas, one in Shanghai (naturally) and one down south because of sailing interests there too.

A Snark has a foam hull which is then dipped in a vat of plastic that creates a shell. They ae very light. They could transport it to the water just like I did. Simply built a little two wheeled trailer and hauled it with my bike.

Our families first boat was hardly a Catalina 30. He bought a beat-up wooden 16' Herreshoff sloop for $1,500 and we spent an entire year bringing that boat back to life. Wooden spars and two sets of sails. One was canvas.

OK, 16' Herreshoffs don't exist there. In either case you need somewhere to store your Snark, the Herreshoff (or Catalina).

Both the first boat I had use of and the first I owned were beat up old (and cheap) dingies - First an OK and then an Enterprise. Both were kept in a local club's dinghy park. Guess what, in SHanghai alone there are at least 4 clubs where members can keep their own boats at NOT unrealistic prices and as the numebr of clubs grow then so with the price competition. Still a long way from the 22 clubs on the Firth of Forth (where I used to sail) serving a population of just 1 million. There is no real second hand market here largely because most owners are still on their first boat, it is that young here. That said I have assisted a few owners with the purchase and sale of their boats. 

Your take on China, its history, etc. are very different from mine. My wife was a professor of Chinese history at Wuhan University. So was her mother. I have been there more times than I care to count over the past 20 years. We also own a home there. I have no plans to ever return. Perhaps my wife will at some point in the future to sell it and see her family.

Not to compare wives, but mine left China to do her doctorate in Britain (engineering physics). As well as being reasonably famous in the Chinese sailing community she was a Red Guard. Basically all of her elementary/secondary school was during the Cultural Revolution which apparently quite fun for kids - lots of dancing and poster making, but terrible for academics. Her parents were both profs and provided this at home. 

Well mine is still here ;) I agree that the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward were not exactly smart moves by the then govenment

If you were being honest in your evaluation, perhaps you would address the toxic food chain there. Perhaps tell the audience that the big cities that look so awesome are actually only window dressing. Perhaps explain what you get when purchasing an apartment in those beautiful EMPTY buildings.  

I am not trying to defend China. In many respects it is a horrible place, with a very dangerous and capable leader. The problem in the West is that we do not know enough about the country and much of what we think we know is out of date or otherwise wrong. In no way were my comments meant to be totally comprehensive. If we go down that route we need to get into dozens of aspects of Chinese society, economy, etc.

Wasn't it Deng Xiao Ping who said "You have to let some people get rich first. Perhaps the cities are, to a degree, window dressing but the 30,000+kms of high speed rail are not and the highway network which I regularly travel (Shanghai to South and return at least twice a year) most certainly are  not. That network with virtually every smaller town/city having its own off-ramp coupled to the almost comprehensive mobile network enables small farmers to get their produce to the markets in the bigger cities within 24-36 hours.

Volvo's have always been a safe car but also garbage. That is prior to Ford buying them, during and after Geely bought them. All is ducky until you need to replace a part or repair them. No different than their marine engines. Chinese cars in general are death traps. Most are poorly constructed and all of them have a formaldehyde level that is not remotely close to being safe. 

Current Volvos are made in Sweden and, I think, Belgium. My son said they are very reliable and easy to work on. His comparison is BMW and Audi.

The also have at least 1 factory in China - they are then home built and not subject to import duties. Even the BMW 5 Series are built here as are virtually ever Volkswagen you see on Chinese Roads

I have played golf in China on several occasions and have yet to pay anywhere near $500 for a round. Your assertion is just plain false. There is very little in China that I would consider expensive. Real estate absolutely is. But an ex-pat could live like a king there if he or she could put up with the baggage it has.

Wow - where were you golfing? Having said that there are expensive courses everywhere and what China currently lacks are  municipal courses (Edinburgh, Scotland has 5) Having said that, I laugh out loud every time I see a league table of the "Most expensive cities in the world for expats" with Shanghai in the top 10

 

I could not imagine living in most of China although I might make an exception for Kunming. 

My preferred choice would be the Zhoushan Islands - 1,000 plus islands. Kunming, sadly has unhappy, scary memories for me although the nearby Eye Lake is absolutely beautiful

I wouldn't touch a Chinese built sailboat with a ten foot pole. Especially anything that comes out of Hudson Wang's factory in Xiamen.

The J-Boats currently built in China are of equal quality to anything Pearson Composites built. Clipper's last 2 fleets were built here and just a couple of weeks ago I surveyed a 90' (albeit a power yacht) that was getting close in quality to some of the Dutch builds and yes, I have visited multiple Duch yards in what hey call their Yacht Valley - this week it is a 142'from the same yard. And wasn't Patches, the TP52 that did rather well in her generation built in China? - Actually I know it was. I understand your comment about Hudson Wang as although the HH Carbon Cats appear to be enjoying a growing reputation the RIBs he used to build couldn't get out of their own way.

Like everything else when new things are being made in a country they are crap - think of the Hyundai Pony as a good example. Also consider the difference between the leaky teakies and the lovely boats now made in Taiwan. 

ha ha - and don't forget that many of the posts on these forums and elsewhere are typed on electronic devices were built here, especially if you are an Apple user. 

Actually I have to agree with OneWorld on many of his comments. I have put my thoughts in red alongside the black and blue to make the links easier. 

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Not quoting anyone in particular but on the subject of cars.

Geely has owned Volvo Cars for many years. I used to joke with friends on the Volvo Ocean Race that the Race was half Chinese owned and when they told me I was taking BS I invited to go take a look for themselves.

Many brands have factories here because of import duties and/or tariffs. When large companies signed contracts to build here I am pretty sure their corporate lawyers understood the terms of any contracts. If they didn't like the terms they didn't need to sign but they wanted easy(er) access to around 1/4 of the world population.

Over the years I have owned or been responsible (company cars) for 24 cars built in UK, Italy, France, Sweden, Japan, Germany & China. The last 3 have been Chinese, 2 Great Walls and an MG6. 

Those last 3 have been the most reliable cars I have owned with the MG now having 150,000+km on it (trips to the South from Shanghai mount up) and I don't want to change it as so little has needed done to it over the years. Having said that I put a new battery on it yesterday because the night before I left the lights on (silly me) and it was quicker, cheaper and easier than going to try find a battery charger. Maybe I shouldn't tempt fate - ha ha!

China is Volkswagen/Audi's 2nd biggest market after Germany, BMW, Buick, Volvo, Honda etc all have factories here - even Tesla (currently under a 300,000 car or so re-call)

The Auto-Industry is a increasingly a global market and manufacturers will look (and do look) to minimise costs (manufacturing, transportation, taxes/duties/tariffs) while ensuring easy access to their chosen market place (customers) hence the significant number of non-Chinese brands actually built here.

Add to the multi-nationals there are a large number of smaller, relative start ups almost reminiscent of the UK scene 100 years ago with Riley, Austen, Morris, MG (actually a division of Morris), Wolsley etc which eventually gravitated to Austen Morris and then British Leyland. What has amazed is the number that are offering electric only cars considering how many owners must live in the high rise apartments mentioned up thread. I mean - how do they charge the buggers?

Just thinking out loud

SS

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17 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

He isn't British.

He is a home grown Chinese 50 center. Except he gets paid a little more because he was able to infiltrate one of the largest sailing websites on the planet.

An British ex-pat in China would have no problem forming a complete sentence and use proper grammar and punctuation.

Several media outlets have written about this issue. The Wall Street Journal published one recently that takes a pretty good dive.

These maggots are everywhere.

 

 

Oh dear, conspiracy theory is alive and well in your living room it appears. 


My only (slight) concern is that if you tell a lie often enough people start to believe it. I think it was Hitler's henchman, Goebbels who first said that (or similar) 

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I spent a decade of my life in Japan and I can explain why Tokyo does what it does, even when I think the powers that be in Tokyo are making the wrong call. That is why I cannot accept Shanghai Sailor as an bona fide expat, in that the usual bitching and moaning that an expat has never comes up. 

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On 7/10/2021 at 7:17 AM, OneWorldSailing said:

And while I am sitting here typing, SS is lighting up my screen as he up votes folks who are defending him and down votes mine and other posts.

Typical behavior of a 50 center.

Interesting that he chose this route instead of debating the issue.

Sounds like a puppet for a sparrow. Ignore.

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43 minutes ago, spankoka said:

I spent a decade of my life in Japan and I can explain why Tokyo does what it does, even when I think the powers that be in Tokyo are making the wrong call. That is why I cannot accept Shanghai Sailor as an bona fide expat, in that the usual bitching and moaning that an expat has never comes up. 

So now I am wrong because I am happy with my lot here? - give me a break.

Some of us actually adapt, that's why the human species has been so successful over the millennia.

And I don't really care whether you accept me as a "bona fide expat" or not, the people I interact with in my daily life do so.

As I used to say to people that did the "bitching and moaning" - well fuck off back home if you don't like it. Nobody forced you to come.

 

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2 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Sounds like a puppet for a sparrow. Ignore.

OneWorld you mean? Nothing like the Great Sparrow, not at all.

But ignoring OneWorld by all means, if you are so inclined.

Me, I don't care, he's not nearly as bad as many others, not yet anyway.

And he does have a point about the Uighurs' genocide, no denying that. It's horrible and should never be condoned!

 

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21 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

But what you are talking about is not economic. Let's assume a Chinese kid got the free Snark, where would he keep it since almost everyone lives in an apartment. Also the yacht clubs, there might be about eight in the country are quite pricey. If you want to sail one design there are clubs for that and they are not expensive. If you have talent there is much more support than in the West. You mention your family's first real boat. That is where it falls apart in China. There are no cheap 30' Catalinas to be had. You need to buy new and only a few Chinese-made boats to be had such as Far East sport boats. BTW, be on the look out for more Chinese boats on the world market. They can't afford to make cheap shit to export, labour costs are much too high so they are going after the higher value-added markets including boats. I mentioned in another thread some time ago that China now makes as many cars as the US, Japan, and Germany combined. Many are exported and many more will be in the future. One of my sons is a Volvo mechanic. He says the Volvos made when it was Ford-owned are largely garbage but now that is is Chinese-owned (Geely Motors) the cars are terrific. Volvo will only sell all-electric cars by 2030. Want to bet that the technology will find its way into cheaper Geely's that will be widely exported?

Lots of Chinese people (as in hundreds of millions) can afford to sail but they are choosing other ways to spend their money. Pre-COVID the largest number of international tourists in the world were Chinese. MY BIL, who retired at 43 saying he had made enough money, is an avid golfer. He heads off to Thailand and places like that a few times a year with his buddies to play since golf in China is so expensive - think $500 a round for an average course.

 

Hi Bristol

Not an argument or a put down, just straightening out some facts.

Your estimate of 8 sailing clubs is more than a little off the mark. I have personally visited multiple times that number and there are currently more than 100 marina clubs in China either up and running or in build.

The trouble with most of the marinas is that the developer also built an expensive clubhouse to try and attract the super rich and the cost of that building as well as the marina has to be amortised - hence the crazy high prices - probably twice what they should be without the fancy club. Glad to see that one or two municipalities (including Haikou on Hainan) have invested in public marinas which have dispensed with the expensive club building.  In fact the assumption that leisure boating is only for the very rich is one of the factors holding back the growth of our sport here although I am glad to say that this is gradually changing. There are around 150 J-80s here and the J-70 is growing strongly also with over 20 sold. It's coming, but never fast enough.

Yes there are no cheap second hand boats (or at least very few) available because most owners are still on their first boat, the 'scene' is so new that that element of the market has not developed yet and there are certainly no 20-30 year old boats that can be got cheap.

22 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The 'average person' in rest of the world cannot afford to sail either. There are probably 400 million Chinese who could afford to sail and most of them live near the coast. With the exception of Olympic sailing, the Chinese government could care less about sailing. We considered visiting China during our world cruise but it was just way too expensive. Spent some time with the manager of the marina on Hainan island who learned her trade at a marina in North Carolina of all places. She said she would be happy for us to come but it would be about US$2500 in fees to get there (plus the marina charges which were not cheap) and once there we could only day sail and return each evening. We could only go to the next marina up the coast - no anchoring/no gunk holing and it would be another $2500 for each marina we visited. The marina was very nice but only about 1/4 full. The Chinese rich realize that rich people belong to YCs and there were two Ferraris and a Rolls-Royce in the parking lot. The manager said that people buy a boat, most often a power boat around 50' and just sit on it and entertain since they do not know how to operate it. China only allows new boats to be imported and the luxury tax is something like 100%.

We almost ended up as paid captains of a new Tayana 53 (52? 54?) that was to be used as a base for a reality TV show that would gradually move from China to Venice. The route was loosely tied to the Belt and Road Initiative. Young starlets would fly into various venues to get video of them in their bikinis in 'exotic' locations along the way . They wanted my wife because she was the first Chinese woman to sail around the world, although not a Chinese citizen. They wanted me since they like to have a western 'expert' in a show which features something novel to Chinese eyes. The producer said I would have to grow a beard because it fits the image of a sailor. A tough gig for me, just had to look stoic and try not to drool in front of the cameras. We were to pick up the boat at the factory in Taiwan and take it to China (registered in Malaysia to same money). Thee first season of the show was to be mainly China and into SE Asia, with a second season carrying on from there. The boat was built and was sitting in the yard (and paid for I assume) but I think the money for the show didn't appear as expected so the project fell apart. Something like this would help promote non-Olympic sailing in the country. Cruising does interest a core group of people in the country but it is very hard to actually do it and cost is not one of the obstacles. My wife did a book about our travels and did a book tour to a number of locales. I went with her a couple of times. In Beijing there is a monthly sailing meeting and a couple of young 20s girls recognized June and came rushing up. They had forgotten her name but remembered the boat name and came up calling 'Ainia, Ainia!' (Ai Ni means love you in Chinese). Very much like groupies. In Shenzhen, the YC has two locations - one where the boats are kept and a downtown one that Is built into the soccer stadium. It was perhaps the most elegant (and costly) room I have ever been in.

Slowly some authorities are getting the idea of the economic benefits of a leisure boat industry. As an example of how valuable it could be, in the US, according to the latest survey by the NMMA (admittedly a few years old) leisure boating has a $130Bn per annum impact on the US economy. Of course it will take China a long time to get to those dizzy heights but with more people than the whole population of the States being able to afford it the potential is there. How many actually get involved will naturally depend on how well the industry promotes water activities.

With what's going on in the South China Sea and a major naval base close to Sanya it is perhaps understandable they are restrictive about foreign yachts cruising the coast. This is however not just a China thing. I used to sail on the Forth (Scotland) and once ventured too close to Rosyth Royal Navy Base. I was joined by a Police launch (bigger than my boat) and invited to move further away or I would be arrested - my bad. On another occasion I was in the Holy Loch (Firth of Clyde) and got too close to the US Submarine Depot ship and it was clear from the military personnel with long guns that we were not welcome. They were armed with what appeared to be Armalites and, as at the time the UK Military service issue was the SLR, I think it was a fair guess they were American.

China is perhaps over nervous about its borders but when one considers the decades of unwelcome foreign Concessions around the country and the Japanese War of Aggression and Chinese people's long memories the thinking, if perhaps not the actuality, is a little more understandable.  A pain in the butt perhaps, but understandable.

I do know Chinese sailors who have sailed round the world on their own account, Guo Chuan was a personal friend and we sailed together a number of times and there are multiple coastal and offshore races in the country including one from Qingdao to Korea then Russia and return ( think) a Round Hainan Regatta in (I think) it's 10th year and one from Shenzhen to a little north of Sanya on Hainan.

In Shenzhen there are at least 5 yacht clubs, Seven Star, Daimensha, Shenzhen City and the oldest Longcheer where China Cup used to be based ( I have done several of them) and the old Universitade marina next door. In the Pearl River there is of course Nansha Marina where the Volvo Ocean Race stopped 2 races ago. It is growing steadily.

I love the bit about your wide getting the Ai Ni shouts, they do like their personalities here and it is noticeable that whenever Xu Li Jia turns up at a regatta, in whatever capacity, she gets loads of attention which can only benefit the profile of our sport.

Beijing Sailing Centre is one of the success stories, started by Rick Pointon a fellow expat, they have a  sailing base at Qinghuandao (apologies for the spelling) on the Bohai Sea and it is a recognised RYA School. Another one is Vanhang on Dawa Wan in Shenzhen, also recognised by the RYA. In fact one of the students of the latter went on to become Topper 4.2 World Champion. Little acorns beget big oak trees.

I am always touched when, as a foreigner who is trying to help move things along, I am paid respect by those I help, perhaps even beyond what I deserve as my motivation has been - and is - a love of our sport and desire to see it growing here.

Anyway, already said too much. No doubt some tick turd on the US Eastern Seaboard will take exception to it.

Shame about the series on the Tayana. Nice boat and would have been a wonderful gig. Thank you for sharing it, it shows that there are people here trying to promote the sailing lifestyle or way of life.

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4 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

So now I am wrong because I am happy with my lot here? - give me a break.

Some of us actually adapt, that's why the human species has been so successful over the millennia.

And I don't really care whether you accept me as a "bona fide expat" or not, the people I interact with in my daily life do so.

As I used to say to people that did the "bitching and moaning" - well fuck off back home if you don't like it. Nobody forced you to come.

 

Well, well, well.

Now we have three 50 centers.

SS, his boyfriend and perhaps, Bristol-Cruiser.

It is amazing how his "Chinglish" miraculously turned British about 24 hours after his last post. 

It isn't even worth my time to dissect his posts and shred them. He is nothing but a poser.

I am not too sure about Bristol Cruiser. Perhaps not a 50 center, but his/her posts do smell of a Chinese farm first thing in the morning after they have fertilized their fruits and vegetables with a mixture of human feces and urine. Yup, that's how its done. But to be fair, I believe Mexico does the same.

A word about ex-pats living in China (not Hong Kong) full time.

The vast majority of them have failed in western society and arrive broke. They can rent apartments easily and get credit from many of the large online retailers as there are no credit bureaus there. They are a joke to the educated Chinese.

Many of them have found a way to slither into medium sized factories that need a western face to make them appear to be bigger.

I have run into many of them over they years. A few have been decent guys and are honestly looking for a second start in life. The vast majority are nothing more than grifters.

If you are doing business there and one prairie dogs himself into the negotiations, he is there to not only screw you but the company that employs him.

My last question for SS right now.....is that fucking Three Gorges Dam still standing? A friend in Yichang told me the rebar is failing badly. It used to run in a straight line from one end to the other. Now it looks like a roller coaster of bulges, cracks and separations. Most amazing is the fact that the problem is causing earthquakes below it.

Better get the fuck out of Shanghai if that thing goes.

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Hi Bristol

Not an argument or a put down, just straightening out some facts.

Your estimate of 8 sailing clubs is more than a little off the mark. I have personally visited multiple times that number and there are currently more than 100 marina clubs in China either up and running or in build.

The trouble with most of the marinas is that the developer also built an expensive clubhouse to try and attract the super rich and the cost of that building as well as the marina has to be amortised - hence the crazy high prices - probably twice what they should be without the fancy club. Glad to see that one or two municipalities (including Haikou on Hainan) have invested in public marinas which have dispensed with the expensive club building.  In fact the assumption that leisure boating is only for the very rich is one of the factors holding back the growth of our sport here although I am glad to say that this is gradually changing. There are around 150 J-80s here and the J-70 is growing strongly also with over 20 sold. It's coming, but never fast enough.

Yes there are no cheap second hand boats (or at least very few) available because most owners are still on their first boat, the 'scene' is so new that that element of the market has not developed yet and there are certainly no 20-30 year old boats that can be got cheap.

Slowly some authorities are getting the idea of the economic benefits of a leisure boat industry. As an example of how valuable it could be, in the US, according to the latest survey by the NMMA (admittedly a few years old) leisure boating has a $130Bn per annum impact on the US economy. Of course it will take China a long time to get to those dizzy heights but with more people than the whole population of the States being able to afford it the potential is there. How many actually get involved will naturally depend on how well the industry promotes water activities.

With what's going on in the South China Sea and a major naval base close to Sanya it is perhaps understandable they are restrictive about foreign yachts cruising the coast. This is however not just a China thing. I used to sail on the Forth (Scotland) and once ventured too close to Rosyth Royal Navy Base. I was joined by a Police launch (bigger than my boat) and invited to move further away or I would be arrested - my bad. On another occasion I was in the Holy Loch (Firth of Clyde) and got too close to the US Submarine Depot ship and it was clear from the military personnel with long guns that we were not welcome. They were armed with what appeared to be Armalites and, as at the time the UK Military service issue was the SLR, I think it was a fair guess they were American.

China is perhaps over nervous about its borders but when one considers the decades of unwelcome foreign Concessions around the country and the Japanese War of Aggression and Chinese people's long memories the thinking, if perhaps not the actuality, is a little more understandable.  A pain in the butt perhaps, but understandable.

I do know Chinese sailors who have sailed round the world on their own account, Guo Chuan was a personal friend and we sailed together a number of times and there are multiple coastal and offshore races in the country including one from Qingdao to Korea then Russia and return ( think) a Round Hainan Regatta in (I think) it's 10th year and one from Shenzhen to a little north of Sanya on Hainan.

In Shenzhen there are at least 5 yacht clubs, Seven Star, Daimensha, Shenzhen City and the oldest Longcheer where China Cup used to be based ( I have done several of them) and the old Universitade marina next door. In the Pearl River there is of course Nansha Marina where the Volvo Ocean Race stopped 2 races ago. It is growing steadily.

I love the bit about your wide getting the Ai Ni shouts, they do like their personalities here and it is noticeable that whenever Xu Li Jia turns up at a regatta, in whatever capacity, she gets loads of attention which can only benefit the profile of our sport.

Beijing Sailing Centre is one of the success stories, started by Rick Pointon a fellow expat, they have a  sailing base at Qinghuandao (apologies for the spelling) on the Bohai Sea and it is a recognised RYA School. Another one is Vanhang on Dawa Wan in Shenzhen, also recognised by the RYA. In fact one of the students of the latter went on to become Topper 4.2 World Champion. Little acorns beget big oak trees.

I am always touched when, as a foreigner who is trying to help move things along, I am paid respect by those I help, perhaps even beyond what I deserve as my motivation has been - and is - a love of our sport and desire to see it growing here.

Anyway, already said too much. No doubt some tick turd on the US Eastern Seaboard will take exception to it.

Shame about the series on the Tayana. Nice boat and would have been a wonderful gig. Thank you for sharing it, it shows that there are people here trying to promote the sailing lifestyle or way of life.

Like I said, two different people or this fucker has MPD.

Let's cut to the chase, poser.

What IS going on in the South China Sea? You brought up the fact it is dangerous. How so?

There is a sub base near Sanya. It isn't a big secret. Anyone with a few RMB's can tour it.

I can jump into a sailboat and literally sail right up to the carriers and the boomer bases in San Diego. You can take a water tour or simply sail over and watch the Navy train their dolphins for god knows what.

You are an embarrassment to your country and I am pretty sure they don't want your ass back.

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Like I said, two different people or this fucker has MPD.

Let's cut to the chase, poser.

What IS going on in the South China Sea? You brought up the fact it is dangerous. How so?

There is a sub base near Sanya. It isn't a big secret. Anyone with a few RMB's can tour it.

I can jump into a sailboat and literally sail right up to the carriers and the boomer bases in San Diego. You can take a water tour or simply sail over and watch the Navy train their dolphins for god knows what.

You are an embarrassment to your country and I am pretty sure they don't want your ass back.

 

 

 

 

 

Make your fucking mind up. less that 24 hours ago I was Chinese according to your posts now my country doesn't want my ass back? 

As Robbie the Robot used to say "That does not compute!"

You are deranged, pure and simple. No let me rephrase that you are just simple as in 'of low intellect'.

Wait a minute, isn't not being able to remember what one wrote less than 24 hours ago a clear symptom of early onset dementia? 

As I have said I am apolitical and it would take someone with a hell of a lot more smarts than you obviously have to draw me on any subject related to politics.

Get a life

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30 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Make your fucking mind up. less that 24 hours ago I was Chinese according to your posts now my country doesn't want my ass back? 

As Robbie the Robot used to say "That does not compute!"

You are deranged, pure and simple. No let me rephrase that you are just simple as in 'of low intellect'.

Wait a minute, isn't not being able to remember what one wrote less than 24 hours ago a clear symptom of early onset dementia? 

As I have said I am apolitical and it would take someone with a hell of a lot more smarts than you obviously have to draw me on any subject related to politics.

Get a life

Take a reading comprehension test. You are deficient.

You are "apolitical"?

Someone who claims to be apolitical while living in China is simply saying......

"I no longer have a home country and I moved to this shit hole. Now I will try to put lipstick on this pig and make everyone, including myself, believe that it is a wonderful place full of opportunity".

You cannot use the term apolitical to ignore and deflect from the fact that you are living under one of the worst regimes that has ever infested this planet. One that does not value human life, faith or the environment its own people live in.

To ignore these atrocities in the name of politics is simply indicative of a person that has no spine, no morals and no where else to go.

Now get the fuck out of here and have your tug bud SS come back and chat.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Hi Bristol

Not an argument or a put down, just straightening out some facts.

Your estimate of 8 sailing clubs is more than a little off the mark. I have personally visited multiple times that number and there are currently more than 100 marina clubs in China either up and running or in build.

The trouble with most of the marinas is that the developer also built an expensive clubhouse to try and attract the super rich and the cost of that building as well as the marina has to be amortised - hence the crazy high prices - probably twice what they should be without the fancy club. Glad to see that one or two municipalities (including Haikou on Hainan) have invested in public marinas which have dispensed with the expensive club building.  In fact the assumption that leisure boating is only for the very rich is one of the factors holding back the growth of our sport here although I am glad to say that this is gradually changing. There are around 150 J-80s here and the J-70 is growing strongly also with over 20 sold. It's coming, but never fast enough.

Yes there are no cheap second hand boats (or at least very few) available because most owners are still on their first boat, the 'scene' is so new that that element of the market has not developed yet and there are certainly no 20-30 year old boats that can be got cheap.

Slowly some authorities are getting the idea of the economic benefits of a leisure boat industry. As an example of how valuable it could be, in the US, according to the latest survey by the NMMA (admittedly a few years old) leisure boating has a $130Bn per annum impact on the US economy. Of course it will take China a long time to get to those dizzy heights but with more people than the whole population of the States being able to afford it the potential is there. How many actually get involved will naturally depend on how well the industry promotes water activities.

With what's going on in the South China Sea and a major naval base close to Sanya it is perhaps understandable they are restrictive about foreign yachts cruising the coast. This is however not just a China thing. I used to sail on the Forth (Scotland) and once ventured too close to Rosyth Royal Navy Base. I was joined by a Police launch (bigger than my boat) and invited to move further away or I would be arrested - my bad. On another occasion I was in the Holy Loch (Firth of Clyde) and got too close to the US Submarine Depot ship and it was clear from the military personnel with long guns that we were not welcome. They were armed with what appeared to be Armalites and, as at the time the UK Military service issue was the SLR, I think it was a fair guess they were American.

China is perhaps over nervous about its borders but when one considers the decades of unwelcome foreign Concessions around the country and the Japanese War of Aggression and Chinese people's long memories the thinking, if perhaps not the actuality, is a little more understandable.  A pain in the butt perhaps, but understandable.

I do know Chinese sailors who have sailed round the world on their own account, Guo Chuan was a personal friend and we sailed together a number of times and there are multiple coastal and offshore races in the country including one from Qingdao to Korea then Russia and return ( think) a Round Hainan Regatta in (I think) it's 10th year and one from Shenzhen to a little north of Sanya on Hainan.

In Shenzhen there are at least 5 yacht clubs, Seven Star, Daimensha, Shenzhen City and the oldest Longcheer where China Cup used to be based ( I have done several of them) and the old Universitade marina next door. In the Pearl River there is of course Nansha Marina where the Volvo Ocean Race stopped 2 races ago. It is growing steadily.

I love the bit about your wide getting the Ai Ni shouts, they do like their personalities here and it is noticeable that whenever Xu Li Jia turns up at a regatta, in whatever capacity, she gets loads of attention which can only benefit the profile of our sport.

Beijing Sailing Centre is one of the success stories, started by Rick Pointon a fellow expat, they have a  sailing base at Qinghuandao (apologies for the spelling) on the Bohai Sea and it is a recognised RYA School. Another one is Vanhang on Dawa Wan in Shenzhen, also recognised by the RYA. In fact one of the students of the latter went on to become Topper 4.2 World Champion. Little acorns beget big oak trees.

I am always touched when, as a foreigner who is trying to help move things along, I am paid respect by those I help, perhaps even beyond what I deserve as my motivation has been - and is - a love of our sport and desire to see it growing here.

Anyway, already said too much. No doubt some tick turd on the US Eastern Seaboard will take exception to it.

Shame about the series on the Tayana. Nice boat and would have been a wonderful gig. Thank you for sharing it, it shows that there are people here trying to promote the sailing lifestyle or way of life.

We were checking out cruising to China about 10 years ago so things may have improved. At that time the only places that foreign cruisers were allowed to go, at great cost, were the large, fancy yacht club/marinas that were scattered along the coast. Just not practical financially and otherwise. The growth in sailing in China seems to be racing and day sailing focussed because that is all that is allowed. I think it would a neat place to cruise if allowed. A few, and really very few, Chinese have circumnavigated. My wife is in contact with many of them. One problem they face is that visa demands are a problem. One couple she knows bought citizenship in St Lucia or somewhere else in the eastern Caribbean so they could travel more easily.

When we bought our Bristol 45.5 it had the odd name 'Double Ditto'. I am not a fan of renaming boat unless really necessary - which it was in this case. In Canada, boat names must be unique and we wanted to avoid a number, like 'Wave Chaser 4'. Also, only names in English and French are allowed. We covered all the bases by adding an 'a' at the end, which made the name a palindrome which was neat. Since many Americans think Canadians say 'eh' a lot, when they ask what the name means we say, 'Love you, eh'.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-says-drove-away-us-warship-schina-sea-2021-07-12/

 

"BEIJING, July 12 (Reuters) - China's military said it "drove away" a U.S. warship that illegally entered Chinese waters near the Paracel Islands on Monday, the anniversary of an international court ruling that held Beijing had no claim over the South China Sea.

The USS Benfold entered the waters without China's approval, seriously violating its sovereignty and undermining the stability of the South China Sea, the southern theatre command of the People's Liberation Army said.

"We urge the United States to immediately stop such provocative actions," it said in a statement.

On July 12, 2016, the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague ruled that China had no historic title over the South China Sea, a ruling that Beijing said it would ignore.

 

The Benfold asserted navigational rights and freedoms in the vicinity of the Paracel Islands consistent with international law, the U.S. Navy said in a statement.

The islands are claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam, which require either permission or advance notification before a military vessel passes through.

"Under international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention, the ships of all states, including their warships, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea," the U.S. Navy added.

'INNOCENT PASSAGE'

 

 

"By engaging in innocent passage without giving prior notification to or asking permission from any of the claimants, the United States challenged these unlawful restrictions imposed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam."

Hundreds of other islands, reefs and atolls in the resource-rich waterway are contested by Brunei, China, Malaysia and the Philippines. China claims rights to resources within its so-called nine-dash line, or most of the region.

"By conducting this operation, the United States demonstrated that these waters are beyond what China can lawfully claim as its territorial sea, and that China's claimed straight baselines around the Paracel Islands are inconsistent with international law," the U.S. Navy said.

In its 2016 ruling, the Hague court also said China had interfered with traditional Philippine fishing rights at Scarborough Shoal and breached the country's sovereign rights by exploring for oil and gas near the Reed Bank.

 

Freedom of the seas was an "enduring" interest of all nations, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Sunday.

"Nowhere is the rules-based maritime order under greater threat than in the South China Sea," Blinken said in a statement.

"The People's Republic of China continues to coerce and intimidate Southeast Asian coastal states, threatening freedom of navigation in this critical global throughway."

China's foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said on Monday at a regular briefing that the United States was harming peace and stability in the region.

 

In the Philippines, more than 100 activists gathered outside a building housing the Chinese consulate to press Beijing to respect the arbitral ruling and allow Filipinos to freely fish in the South China Sea.

The crowd marched with a Philippine flag and banners reading: "China get out of the West Philippine Sea" and "China out of our waters".

Manila refers to the part of the South China Sea that it claims as the West Philippine Sea.

"Since our tribunal ruling victory, there were no changes. There's still the presence of the Chinese Coast Guard, the Chinese militia...in the West Philippine Sea," said Fernando Hicap, head of a federation of small fisherfolk groups."

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Well, well, well.

Now we have three 50 centers.

SS, his boyfriend and perhaps, Bristol-Cruiser.

 

Better get the fuck out of Shanghai if that thing goes.

 

 

 

I think if you want to talk about China and people who choose to live in China, take it to PA. If you want to contribute to a discussion on sailing in China, by all means continue.

I think you are personally quite insulting to SS. He has a Chinese wife and they like living in China.  

If this was PA, I would tell you that I am strongly opposed to the communist dictatorship regime in China.  I think that we are foolish not  to realize that China has changed direction since Xi took over.  I think it is a damn shame what has happened in Hong Kong (which I visited ).  I am not sure that we can do much about the regime. We are not going to war in an attempt to impose a regime change.The Chinese are in charge of their own destiny. What we can and must do is prevent expansion and we must stand by Taiwan .

I am able to reconcile my opposition to the communist dictatorship in China with liking many Chinese people and understanding why some people enjoy living there.   I certainly think that the more we have in common (sailing etc) the more likely people get along.

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2 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

So who was OWS before this ID and is the change a sock or from being flicked? The pattern of behavior is playing out and once again it won't end well.

 

Cute.

I have been on and off (mostly off) from SA from the very beginning.

I have never been "flicked" as you say. Simply someone who has spent most of the past 20 years or so working for a living and raising my kids. During that time you have posted 30,000 times

Look, I am sorry if you cannot see the forest through the trees and you find this thread distasteful.

The problems with China are not going to be solved with some bizarre kumbaya moment when everyone gets together to talk about and actually sail. The people of China are not the problem.

The communist party is and for anyone to say that nothing can be done about it is either a pacifist or doesn't have the balls to to stand up and argue with his or her own wife.

I have always like SA for what it is and what it isn't. It has changed like all of us. But one thing hasn't changed, anyone can stand up and call bullshit when they see it.

So if the Ed wants me to cease and desist, I will gladly oblige. It's his house and we all must abide by his rules.

It is obvious you or iplore do not have much to say about this topic other than to run in and take a few shots at me. Why? You are not being relevant or adding anything to the debate.

And no, I won't show you my wife's tits.

Jesus, that is about as stale as:

Show me the money

What happens in Vegas....

Talk to the hand.

 

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1 minute ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Ask SS.

Is it a secret?

You apparently know as you use the label often.

I don't have clue but I AM curious so just spit it out.

It might make it easier to follow the discussion...

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5 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Yawn. Look in the mirror.

Answer the question and for bonus points what are you hiding? People change their IDs for a reason, I just asked what yours was.

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10 minutes ago, familysailor said:

What the hell is a, " 50 center"?

Apparently a 50 center is someone in the vast army of internet  & media China promoters / defenders 

 

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9 minutes ago, Parma said:

Apparently a 50 center is someone in the vast army of internet  & media China promoters / defenders 

 

A 50 center is what folks in Hong Kong call the large number mainlanders that are paid directly or indirectly by the Chinese government to promote China in a positive light and more infamously, attack anyone who calls the government out.

Most are also employed by the large click farms there. You can hire them to attack a competitors business by posting bogus bad reviews, make positive reviews on Chinese goods sold from outlets like Amazon, and provide other forms of electronic terrorism.

Some eventually move up in income and stature if they are able to gain entry to a wide audience by posting stories about how wonderful life is in China while subtlety or at times making direct attacks at western nations.

A great example of how vicious it can be is on youtube. Search for some of the live coverage of the protests in Hong Kong a couple of years ago. It is quite amazing to watch and is about as hateful and racist as it comes.

There is no love between the people of Hong Kong and mainland China. Especially with the young. 

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26 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Answer the question and for bonus points what are you hiding? People change their IDs for a reason, I just asked what yours was.

I haven't posted to SA in 10 years at the minimum.

I have enough trouble remembering my wedding anniversary much less my old ID here.

My suggestion is to crawl back under your rock and post your next 30,000 posts to someone who gives a fuck.

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13 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

I haven't posted to SA in 10 years at the minimum.

I have enough trouble remembering my wedding anniversary much less my old ID here.

My suggestion is to crawl back under your rock and post your next 30,000 posts to someone who gives a fuck.

If you want to post about China in PA I would be happy to respond, but you don't. You attack others yet respond to a simple question with insults.

Sorry, but I don't believe anything you have written to date.

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On 7/11/2021 at 9:03 AM, OneWorldSailing said:

Especially anything that comes out of Hudson Wang's factory in Xiamen. Let's just say they are actually worse than the gas grills that he built for Home Depot and Lowes that had a defect in the propane line that caused them to catch fire and blow-up here in the states.

Who knew?

  • Publication number: 20130186876
    Abstract: A grill includes upper and lower plates and heat conducting members. The upper plate includes alternating ridge and furrow portions, and is formed with alternating receiving spaces and first connecting surfaces. The heat conducting members are disposed in the receiving spaces, respectively. The first connecting surfaces are provided at the respective furrow portions. The lower plate includes alternating and interconnected first and second plate portions. The first plate portions respectively correspond to the ridge portions . The second plate portions have second connecting surfaces and second holes registered with first holes formed in the furrow portions. The furrow portions are welded to the second plate portions with the first and second connecting surfaces being in intimate contact.
    Type: Application
    Filed: January 23, 2012
    Publication date: July 25, 2013
    Inventor: Hudson WANG
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Just now, d'ranger said:

If you want to post about China in PA I would be happy to respond, but you don't. You attack others yet respond to a simple question with insults.

Sorry, but I don't believe anything you have written to date.

This thread was created as a response to an article written by SS and posted by the Ed on the FP.

I think I was very clear by providing a warning to anyone who may get his feelings hurt or ego bruised.

I am not interested in your attempts at deflection or your belief system. Obviously, you like to go through life with blinders on and glom off the youth of this country that have given their lives so you can sit here and post 30,000 times about nothing.

Maybe you are Pavlov's dog. If you do not like the subject matter of this thread, do not read it or add to it. I have said it multiple times. I can't possibly give you a treat until you understand this.

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Who knew?

  • Publication number: 20130186876
    Abstract: A grill includes upper and lower plates and heat conducting members. The upper plate includes alternating ridge and furrow portions, and is formed with alternating receiving spaces and first connecting surfaces. The heat conducting members are disposed in the receiving spaces, respectively. The first connecting surfaces are provided at the respective furrow portions. The lower plate includes alternating and interconnected first and second plate portions. The first plate portions respectively correspond to the ridge portions . The second plate portions have second connecting surfaces and second holes registered with first holes formed in the furrow portions. The furrow portions are welded to the second plate portions with the first and second connecting surfaces being in intimate contact.
    Type: Application
    Filed: January 23, 2012
    Publication date: July 25, 2013
    Inventor: Hudson WANG

And I do recall SA members raking Pete Johnstone over the coals for the problems with Gunboat.

You screwed a good guy that was only speaking the truth.

Right, Ranger?

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Just now, OneWorldSailing said:

And I do recall SA members raking Pete Johnstone over the coals for the problems with Gunboat.

You screwed a good guy that was only speaking the truth.

Right, Ranger?

Give me 60 minutes and someone with a good sailing podcast.

What went on in that factory before, during and after Gunboat was truly Anarchy.

And I was there for most of it.

There are so many dead bodies and many of them came from the U.S., Australia and New Zealand.

All went in assuming that business would be the same as it is in most western countries. Boy, were they wrong.

And no, I won't discuss this any further or do a podcast. Too many lawyers in love.

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11 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

This thread was created as a response to an article written by SS and posted by the Ed on the FP.

I think I was very clear by providing a warning to anyone who may get his feelings hurt or ego bruised.

I am not interested in your attempts at deflection or your belief system. Obviously, you like to go through life with blinders on and glom off the youth of this country that have given their lives so you can sit here and post 30,000 times about nothing.

Maybe you are Pavlov's dog. If you do not like the subject matter of this thread, do not read it or add to it. I have said it multiple times. I can't possibly give you a treat until you understand this.

And again with the personal attacks for asking you a simple question. You have no problem asserting what I think or believe yet continue to hide yours.

That I believe is classic deflection.

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

And again with the personal attacks for asking you a simple question. You have no problem asserting what I think or believe yet continue to hide yours.

That I believe is classic deflection.

Dude, you have some fucked up beliefs.

You already look like an asshat for saying you do not believe anything I have said. Take a look at what Rasputin just published.

He's getting warmer...........................

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34 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

A 50 center is what folks in Hong Kong call the large number mainlanders that are paid directly or indirectly by the Chinese government to promote China in a positive light and more infamously, attack anyone who calls the government out.

Most are also employed by the large click farms there. You can hire them to attack a competitors business by posting bogus bad reviews, make positive reviews on Chinese goods sold from outlets like Amazon, and provide other forms of electronic terrorism.

Some eventually move up in income and stature if they are able to gain entry to a wide audience by posting stories about how wonderful life is in China while subtlety or at times making direct attacks at western nations.

A great example of how vicious it can be is on youtube. Search for some of the live coverage of the protests in Hong Kong a couple of years ago. It is quite amazing to watch and is about as hateful and racist as it comes.

There is no love between the people of Hong Kong and mainland China. Especially with the young. 

I dont know if the young people of Hong Kong hate the young people of mainland China.  What they hate is that CCP is reneging on the Sino British Declaration which gave Hong Kong to Chinese sovereignty on condition that one country/two systems would allow HK to retain its semi autonomous status including electing their own representatives for the HKSAR.

I feel for the people of HK. They kept their side of the bargain. They have produced a dynamic free trade economy with a well managed currency and sound finances, great education and frankly a terrific advertisement for how capitalism and communism could co-exist  and then PRC screws it up .   The final straw was the new national Security Law. 

China now has their eyes set firmly on Taiwan, which is a critical supplier of semi conductors to the USA.

 

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12 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Dude, you have some fucked up beliefs.

You already look like an asshat for saying you do not believe anything I have said. Take a look at what Rasputin just published.

He's getting warmer...........................

More personal attacks? I was referring to your statements about posting here. You seem really touchy about that which just makes me curious as to what you are hiding. I have nothing to hide, same ID since I logged in, no socks and a number of people know me.  I have certainly wasted way too much time here and have no intention of doing that with you.  Since you refuse to post your political views in PA I must conclude you are a coward as well.

edit:  The irony of someone warning of being offended who is easily offended.  Irony, it's not for everyone.

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On 7/9/2021 at 9:36 AM, dogwatch said:

Shanghai Sailor is a long-term positive contributor to SA and SAAC. Not very fair to attack him just because you don't like China. And yes, this belongs on PA; it isn't about sailing, it's about your views on China. I don't intend to comment further.

 

100% agreed.   Its a perfect valid discussion - just not here.

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4 minutes ago, IPLore said:

I dont know if the young people of Hong Kong hate the young people of mainland China.  What they hate is that CCP is reneging on the Sino British Declaration which gave Hong Kong to Chinese sovereignty on condition that one country/two systems would allow HK to retain its semi autonomous status including electing their own representatives for the HKSAR.

I feel for the people of HK. They kept their side of the bargain. They have produced a dynamic free trade economy with a well managed currency and sound finances, great education and frankly a terrific advertisement for how capitalism and communism could co-exist  and then PRC screws it up .   The final straw was the new national Security Law. 

China now has their eyes set firmly on Taiwan, which is a critical supplier of semi conductors to the USA.

 

Sorry, mate.

The mainlanders and Hong Kongers have basically tolerated each other for ages.

The mainlanders do not even think they are Chinese.

And mainlanders cannot even visit Hong Kong unless they apply for and are approved for a visa.

Mainlanders also despise but tolerate the Taiwanese as well. This one goes way back to 1949 when the ROC lost control of the mainland in a civil war and escaped there with gold, artwork and other historical artifacts.

Hudson Wang is from Taiwan.

 

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2 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

The mainlanders do not even think they are Chinese.

You might want to rethink that . .  

And while I am here I might as well add . . that the government of China is not a very good one in many respects, but how many nations in history have been able to do this . .   Answer ZERO 

The 98.99 million people in rural areas who were living below the current poverty threshold all shook off poverty (Figure 1); all the 128,000 impoverished villages and 832 designated poor counties got rid of poverty (Figure 2). China has eliminated poverty over entire regions and eradicated extreme poverty.Apr 6, 2021 

The numbers are astonishing . .  

Poverty Alleviation: China's Experience and Contribution - Xinhua |  English.news.cn

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5 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

How much time have you spent in either place?

Weeks and months . .  

And do you really think that the mainland Chinese people do not consider themselves to be Chinese ?? 

That is really a dumb thing to write. 

In fact, even the Chinese who oppose the government tend to be proud nationalists. 

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1 hour ago, OneWorldSailing said:

A 50 center is what folks in Hong Kong call the large number mainlanders that are paid directly or indirectly by the Chinese government to promote China in a positive light and more infamously, attack anyone who calls the government out.

Most are also employed by the large click farms there. You can hire them to attack a competitors business by posting bogus bad reviews, make positive reviews on Chinese goods sold from outlets like Amazon, and provide other forms of electronic terrorism.

Some eventually move up in income and stature if they are able to gain entry to a wide audience by posting stories about how wonderful life is in China while subtlety or at times making direct attacks at western nations.

A great example of how vicious it can be is on youtube. Search for some of the live coverage of the protests in Hong Kong a couple of years ago. It is quite amazing to watch and is about as hateful and racist as it comes.

There is no love between the people of Hong Kong and mainland China. Especially with the young. 

Okay---

 

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20 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

More personal attacks? I was referring to your statements about posting here. You seem really touchy about that which just makes me curious as to what you are hiding. I have nothing to hide, same ID since I logged in, no socks and a number of people know me.  I have certainly wasted way too much time here and have no intention of doing that with you.  Since you refuse to post your political views in PA I must conclude you are a coward as well.

edit:  The irony of someone warning of being offended who is easily offended.  Irony, it's not for everyone.

SA was and remains famous for its personal attacks.

How many times have I read the same tired mantra of "fuck off newbie" and "show me your wife's tits".

Irony? Don't think so. It has nothing to do with courage on whether someone posts to PA. I have no desire to participate in mental masturbation with anyone. Even this thread is becoming a waste of time.

Offended? Not I. You seem to own that moniker by your constant whining.

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5 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Weeks and months . .  

And do you really think that the mainland Chinese people do not consider themselves to be Chinese ?? 

That is really a dumb thing to write. 

In fact, even the Chinese who oppose the government tend to be proud nationalists. 

Gawd, you are fucking stupid.

Most mainland Chinese do not believe Hong Kongers are Chinese.

Hell, they even believe their physiology is different than any other race on earth.

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1 minute ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Most mainland Chinese do not believe Hong Kongers are Chinese.

But you wrote this . . "The mainlanders do not even think they are Chinese." 

Who is "they"? 

Kinda unclear, doncha think ??  

And why do you think dropping F-Bombs makes you more credible ?? 

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24 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

You might want to rethink that . .  

And while I am here I might as well add . . that the government of China is not a very good one in many respects, but how many nations in history have been able to do this . .   Answer ZERO 

The 98.99 million people in rural areas who were living below the current poverty threshold all shook off poverty (Figure 1); all the 128,000 impoverished villages and 832 designated poor counties got rid of poverty (Figure 2). China has eliminated poverty over entire regions and eradicated extreme poverty.Apr 6, 2021 

The numbers are astonishing . .  

Poverty Alleviation: China's Experience and Contribution - Xinhua |  English.news.cn

You really are stupid for being a self proclaimed professor. Man, I feel sorry for the kids that had to put up with you.

China has been and still is a third world country. And that will not be changing any time soon.

Have you ever visited the rural areas of China?

They live in squalor. There is no internet. There is no cell service. There is no running water or sewer systems. Most do not even have electricity.

And do you know how much 12,588 yuan is worth? About $150 a month or $1,800 a year U.S..

And how much does an iPhone cost in China?

Peddle this bullshit elsewhere.

 

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13 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

But you wrote this . . "The mainlanders do not even think they are Chinese." 

Who is "they"? 

Kinda unclear, doncha think ??  

And why do you think dropping F-Bombs makes you more credible ?? 

Because you are a fucking dumbass.

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Guo Wengui is an interesting case. I saw his crew out protesting the other day. I honestly do not know what his real game is. If I can read it, I know it is mod Chinese. 

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57 minutes ago, spankoka said:

Guo Wengui is an interesting case. I saw his crew out protesting the other day. I honestly do not know what his real game is. If I can read it, I know it is mod Chinese. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/magazine/the-mystery-of-the-exiled-billionaire-whistleblower.html

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2 hours ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Because you are a fucking dumbass.

Typical response from our **Dogballs** when they encounter folks who disagree with them. 

They immediately go right after the messenger . . 

You must be a barrel of laughs at work 

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I'm going back to PA where it is more civilized.

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28 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Typical response from our **Dogballs** when they encounter folks who disagree with them. 

They immediately go right after the messenger . . 

You must be a barrel of laughs at work 

Here is how you are described by another member here:

"AJ is without a doubt the biggest, stupidest & most irrelevant jackoff on these forums.

I often agree & disagree with the same people on different topics but almost all of them also offer helpful advice or insights at one time or another. AJ is the glaring exception, being neither helpful, insightful or sincere. he is in fact the biggest, stupidest & most irrelevant jackoff on these forums."

 

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3 minutes ago, OneWorldSailing said:

Here is how you are described by another member here:

Just like you, that guy engages in Eva Dense free name calling. 

If I did not irritate R-e-i-c-h-i-s-t-s such as y'all, I would be derelict in my duties. 

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