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Remove ethanol from fuel


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44 minutes ago, sailhmb said:

been using av gas for 2 years on 3 chase boats.  I have not had to clean a carburetor since switching over.

how does the cost of av gas compare to the cost of fuel at a dock? marine gas prices in boston are pretty crazy right now.

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1 hour ago, sailhmb said:

been using av gas for 2 years on 3 chase boats.  I have not had to clean a carburetor since switching over.

I run at least 12 gasoline engines here. Outboards, splitter, autos, saws, etc etc. All on discount off-brand regular gasoline. No $nake oil additives either. Zero issues in dozens of years. Some unused for months at a time.

I don’t get the ethanol rant. The home-chemist duffer in the video could simply save a lot of trouble by upgrading his hoses and floats. Plus he has introduced some water into his fuel which should be removed with a desiccant. Must be grumpiness, misdirected blame, and politics.

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7 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Yes, the magic of high school chemistry. Even easier, buy high octane, alcohol-free petrol.

Also, the ethanol is there for two reasons: first, it helps better oxygenate the fuel/air mixture, resulting in more thorough combustion. More power, less pollution. Second, it emulates octane and nonane by raising the flash point of gasoline. Flash point ethanol=55°F; octane=54; pentane and hexane (which comprise most of gasoline)=minus 56 and minus 4°F respectively. By emulating the heaviest hydrocarbons in gasoline, ethanol stops pre-ignition (engine knock) in 4 stroke, high-compression engines -- while burning more cleanly and completely than the octane it replaces. In function, ethanol does the work of MTBE and organic lead, which tended to contaminate groundwater and carried health risks.

Downsides: ethanol has less intrinsic energy per unit volume than octane or gasoline. Alcohols adsorb water, which can lead to corrosion of tanks and engine components and cause evaporating fuels to leave 'varnish' behind. The production of ethanol is energy-intensive (tho not any longer net energy negative, as some claim), requires large-ish industry subsidization, and diverting cultivated land for ethanol production has complex social and ecological impacts. 

OTOH, biomass fuels are 'short cycle' carbon, meaning the CO2 released on combustion was sequestered by photosynthetic plants in the past 1 to 100 years, and theoretically that sequestration/release cycle could go on forever w/out greatly raising atmospheric CO2 concentrations. Fossil fuel CO2 was laid down in the Carboniferous period, 350 million years ago; its release is additive to global CO2 levels. 

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Coming from a general aviation perspective: you would be well advised not to use AvGas in your motors.

AvGas is 'enriched' with tetra ethyl lead to prevent premature detonation inside the cylinder.  Think of AvGas as super-premium-leaded gasoline.  As it has more lead than the old mogas leaded version.  This is something that GA has been struggling with for decades (for various reasons).

Unless your engine has the ability to lean out the mixture and burn off the lead deposits, a clean carb will be the least of your concerns.  As the lead begins leaving residue inside the engine and will corrosively attack the valves (seats and attachments) and the heads.  Even aviation engines suffer from this due to improper operation.  But that extra lead will make you feel fuzzy & warm...

 

Cheers!

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6 hours ago, ryley said:

how does the cost of av gas compare to the cost of fuel at a dock? marine gas prices in boston are pretty crazy right now.

we do not have non ethanol fuel available at the fuel dock.  av gas = $ 5.50.

5 gals of small engine fuel from Sonoco is $65. works great too. 

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4 hours ago, Ruminator said:

Coming from a general aviation perspective: you would be well advised not to use AvGas in your motors.

AvGas is 'enriched' with tetra ethyl lead to prevent premature detonation inside the cylinder.  Think of AvGas as super-premium-leaded gasoline.  As it has more lead than the old mogas leaded version.  This is something that GA has been struggling with for decades (for various reasons).

Unless your engine has the ability to lean out the mixture and burn off the lead deposits, a clean carb will be the least of your concerns.  As the lead begins leaving residue inside the engine and will corrosively attack the valves (seats and attachments) and the heads.  Even aviation engines suffer from this due to improper operation.  But that extra lead will make you feel fuzzy & warm...

 

Cheers!

before I tried this I checked in with a senior Honda marine technical manager in LA who was a former USAF engine maintenance supervisor.  He was completely up to speed on the problem with california gas.  He also used the Sunoco Optima fuel for his garden equipment.  He had not tried Avgas, but couldn't pin point an incompatible that the Hondas would have and recommended I keep an eye on the seals.  I keep him updated after each annual maintenance.  so far no problems.  

Since these motors are for youth sailing chase boats they spend most of their day at idle forward to stay even with the students.

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I buy “racing gas”—one of the gas stations down on the main drag sells it.  No ethanol—for which I pay an extra 75 cents a gallon.  I use the racing gas for outboards, gen sets, etc. 

I’m still pissed about adding ethanol to car gasoline.  My early 2000s car lost 4 mpg when we made the switch to ethanol gas.  32 mpg to 28 mpg.  In other words, we were burning MORE gasoline in addition to the 10% added ethanol to “be good to the environment.”   Right.

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16 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Alcohols adsorb water, which can lead to corrosion of tanks and engine components and cause evaporating fuels to leave 'varnish' behind.

If the ethanol absorbs enough water to be saturated, phase separation occurs and you wind up with low octane gas floating above corrosive goo in your tank. The corrosive goo is, of course, the first thing sucked up by a fuel intake. Engines don't like it.

 

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16 hours ago, Ruminator said:

Coming from a general aviation perspective: you would be well advised not to use AvGas in your motors.

AvGas is 'enriched' with tetra ethyl lead to prevent premature detonation inside the cylinder.  Think of AvGas as super-premium-leaded gasoline.  As it has more lead than the old mogas leaded version.  This is something that GA has been struggling with for decades (for various reasons).

Unless your engine has the ability to lean out the mixture and burn off the lead deposits, a clean carb will be the least of your concerns.  As the lead begins leaving residue inside the engine and will corrosively attack the valves (seats and attachments) and the heads.  Even aviation engines suffer from this due to improper operation.  But that extra lead will make you feel fuzzy & warm...

 

Cheers!

has been used by boat racers all over the world since WWII, any trouble with the lead is an old wives tale

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1 hour ago, random. said:

So you are serious?  You really believe that lead in fuel is not a health hazard?

I think Sailabout been drinking the Tetraethyllead, his brain is damaged..

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2 hours ago, Sailabout said:

has been used by boat racers all over the world since WWII, any trouble with the lead is an old wives tale

You may want to read this:

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

Or don't, if your mind is already made up.  If you do read it, you may make the argument about correlation not meaning causation, but then you should continue reading the article through to the end.

In googling to get the above link, there appears to be many follow-ups and additional country-specific data reported after the above article was published.

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13 hours ago, PurpleOnion said:

You may want to read this:

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

Or don't, if your mind is already made up.  If you do read it, you may make the argument about correlation not meaning causation, but then you should continue reading the article through to the end.

In googling to get the above link, there appears to be many follow-ups and additional country-specific data reported after the above article was published.

I meant trouble with the engine, lead is bad for you like smoking
Seems they still have lead in the fuel in Chicago...

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31 minutes ago, Schnappi said:

But how do you get the ethanol out of the blue water? I don't want to drink watery blue ethanol.

It's quite popular:

Bombay Sapphire 750ml

'Vapor infused', so you know it's good!

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