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What Action Do You Want Biden to take WRT Cuba?


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16 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Anyone willing to go on record and say what they want Biden to do about Cuba?

 

or do you want to bonespur up and wait until he takes a position so you can oppose it?

Invade!!  We need a 20 year war closer to home. They will greet us as liberators.  I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 
 

Cuba Libre!!!

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End sanctions, limited trade, end travel restrictions and announce a multi billion aid package stair stepped to specific DemocRATic reforms heavily loaded to the end of the process.

That or bomb them.

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Having twice visited Cuba, I can assure you that it is a wonderful place to visit. 

Sixty years of sanctions have achieved nothing and no longer serve any useful purpose.  

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23 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Anyone willing to go on record and say what they want Biden to do about Cuba?

 

or do you want to bonespur up and wait until he takes a position so you can oppose it?

 

That's exactly what the bullshitters are going to do...

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Take away the embargo, and the regime loses the fig leaf they have for a dysfunctional economy. The Port of Halifax and the embargo busters there have done well over the years, it's about time they moved on. 

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Invade!!  We need a 20 year war closer to home. They will greet us as liberators.  I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 
 

Cuba Libre!!!

The political dynamic in FL would be interesting. What would happen to lil Havana if the DemocRATS pushed for regime change and got it?  They’d lock Florida in for a long time. Lil Marco and Rick Scott doing Newsmax gigs in a few years, etc. Watch for Val Demmings support. 
 

I can tell you they are both more than suitable. 

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The political dynamic in FL would be interesting. What would happen to lil Havana if the DemocRATS pushed for regime change and got it?  They’d lock Florida in for a long time. Lil Marco and Rick Scott doing Newsmax gigs in a few years, etc. Watch for Val Demmings support. 
 

I can tell you they are both more than suitable. 

I can’t imagine the Cubans alone in S FL are enough to lock in the state. 

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17 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I can’t imagine the Cubans alone in S FL are enough to lock in the state. 

Oh yeah. It’s been close for some time. Their vote is yuge because they always turn out. 

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The embargo hasn’t done a thing to the regime but help them, but the virus has hurt them. If ever there was a time for a bold move this is it. 
 

My closest contact there is normally very reserved about the regime and politics. She is at her wits end. Not out in the streets but asking who could possibly support this….  The embargo didn’t stop eurotourism money but Covid did. They desperate. Interesting that the internet has been down there for three days. 

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1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

Sol, Why are all the Cubanos in Miami against lifting sanctions?  Doesn't make sense to me....

They want the people they left behind to starve to the point that they are so weak that they have no choice but to rise up and overthrow the regime, I think. It made sense one night in my teens when I dropped acid, but never again since. 

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End the embargo. Allow US tourists and $$$$ into the country. A big, fat package of humanitarian aid in the form of food, COVID vaccine, if requested, etc. Stay the hell out of any attempts at regime change (covert or overt). Keep the CIA and other spook agencies far away from the place.  60 years of American anti-Castro policies will not be reversed overnight or even in a few years.  Critical to keep RWNJs out of power otherwise any progress made will be reversed.

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They want the people they left behind to starve to the point that they are so weak that they have no choice but to rise up and overthrow the regime, I think. It made sense one night in my teens when I dropped acid, but never again since. 

 

Am I crazy, but wouldn't removing sanctions hobble their Commie leaders??

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7 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

I’m going to wait and see how AOC feels about the situation and take her guidance before committing 

Smart!  She’s got better ideas than anything you could come up with.  

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The political dynamic in FL would be interesting. What would happen to lil Havana if the DemocRATS pushed for regime change and got it?  They’d lock Florida in for a long time. Lil Marco and Rick Scott doing Newsmax gigs in a few years, etc. Watch for Val Demmings support. 
 

I can tell you they are both more than suitable. 

I doubt that Miami Cubans would change a bit. I think you are projecting some of your rationality onto their irrationality. Myself, I think no good deed goes unpunished.

Jesus said The poor you will always have with you. He probably then mumbled sotto voce, The nutjobs you will always have with you as well. The nutjobs aren't going anywhere or doing anything. They're nutjobs and staying nutjobs. That's it. That is all. When the Wicked Witch of the West is dripping wet, Miami Cubans won't be belting out Ding Dong la bruja está muerta. It ain't happening. Think Groundhog Day but with better food.

In deference to you, I said nutjobs rather than conservatives. Everyone else can mentally substitute what I really meant to say.

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2 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Don't we have data now on what opening up under Obama did just a few short years ago?  Small sample size to be sure, but at least valid data, no?

Facts are a liberal conspiracy 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Invade!!  We need a 20 year war closer to home. They will greet us as liberators.  I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 
 

Cuba Libre!!!

Oh the rum is very suitable the beer not so much

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Invade!!  We need a 20 year war closer to home. They will greet us as liberators.  I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 
 

Cuba Libre!!!

You just want to fly a drone over San Juan hill, so you can become POTUS and score with DC chicks while making the occasional arbitrary decision.      Your gallant offer to drink rum with Cuban Senoritas without even a wingman for backup doesn't fool anybody.    

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We need a token concession before admitting our sanctions haven't done anything, and that N. Korean or Russian hackers are much more dangerous to the American way of life then Cuban Rum.   What should that concession be?   Can they return some CIA surplus exploding golf balls back to Mara Lago?   

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4 minutes ago, Lark said:

We need a token concession before admitting our sanctions haven't done anything, and that N. Korean or Russian hackers are much more dangerous to the American way of life then Cuban Rum.   What should that concession be?   Can they return some CIA surplus exploding golf balls back to Mara Lago?   

I was thinking of something like that. Release all jailed protesters and we can talk, unless they were BLM. 

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8 minutes ago, Lark said:

We need a token concession before admitting our sanctions haven't done anything, and that N. Korean or Russian hackers a much more dangerous to the American way of life then Cuban Rum.   What should that concession be?   Can they return some CIA surplus exploding golf balls back to Mara Lago?   

Bidens a geare heade, they cane gifte hime a minte condish 57 Bel Aire, withe "El Heffe" plates and saye it Castros Cruizzer.............                      :)

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End the sanctions. Do not do anything even remotely like nation-building. Put a leash on the FL Cubans and the CIA. No meddling. No aid, except perhaps humanitarian things like vaccines. The Cubans in Cuba can work out their government issues on their own. The US cannot even do a remotely good job of managing Puerto Rico.

However I don't know much about the issues. The FL Cubans have no say in the matter. They are Americans and shouldn't be meddling. Plus their predecessors have a horrible record in Cuba.

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1 minute ago, Borracho said:

End the sanctions. Do not do anything even remotely like nation-building. Put a leash on the FL Cubans and the CIA. No meddling. No aid, except perhaps humanitarian things like vaccines. The Cubans in Cuba can work out their government issues on their own. The US cannot even do a remotely good job of managing Puerto Rico.

However I don't know much about the issues. The FL Cubans have no say in the matter. They are Americans and shouldn't be meddling. Plus their predecessors have a horrible record in Cuba.

No humanitarians allowed to fly their private planes over Havana dropping leaflets?

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4 minutes ago, Borracho said:

End the sanctions. Do not do anything even remotely like nation-building. Put a leash on the FL Cubans and the CIA. No meddling. No aid, except perhaps humanitarian things like vaccines. The Cubans in Cuba can work out their government issues on their own. The US cannot even do a remotely good job of managing Puerto Rico.

However I don't know much about the issues. The FL Cubans have no say in the matter. They are Americans and shouldn't be meddling. Plus their predecessors have a horrible record in Cuba.

If they are really marching due to hunger, I've no issue with food aid.

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First, deport all Cubans in Florida back to Cuba. Voting problem solved. Second, institute a complete media blackout in the US that blocks any stories about Cuba. Cuba problem solved and mission accomplished. /s

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52 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Dose a drone pillot neede a wingman?

The RC warrior volunteered to put his butt on the line and try to score with a real girl, not a virtual one.    A risk like that requires an experienced wingman.   He is willing to go in alone.   

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29 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If they are really marching due to hunger, I've no issue with food aid.

Yes, But no. Aid sounds great but becomes a political tool. If not Biden then the next admin or congress critters. Empower the UN (or something better) to handle humanitrian things. Maybe?

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2 minutes ago, Borracho said:

Yes, But no. Aid sounds great but becomes a political tool. If not Biden then the next admin or congress critters. Empower the UN (or something better) to handle humanitrian things. Maybe?

UN WHO.  Gates Foundation if you want an NGO. 

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

 I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 

It might take some time to scope out the scene on the ground.

A few years I'm thinking on a big expense account.

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17 minutes ago, Zonker said:
3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

 I volunteer to go in first undercover to make sure the rum and the ladies are suitable for our boys. 

It might take some time to scope out the scene on the ground.

A few years I'm thinking on a big expense account.

Maye neede a smalle boate to compleate covere and staye inconspicuouse............                        :)

esense_04.jpg

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They want the people they left behind to starve to the point that they are so weak that they have no choice but to rise up and overthrow the regime, I think. It made sense one night in my teens when I dropped acid, but never again since. 

I am absolutely against continuing the embargo and sanctions.  They've been nothing but an abject failure.  And its shameful that US presidents for all these decades have let people starve simply to court and pander to the S. FL cuban vote for their own political gains.  In fact, shameful doesn't even begin to describe it.

But I honestly don't see how lifting them removes the oppressive regime.  If anything, it will enrich them even further and keep them in power longer, just like the Euro tourism $$ did..  At the end of the day, it is up to the cubans themselves to make the change.  If they can't, or won't, it's not our problem to fix for them.  If we've learned nothing over the last several decades, regime change must come from within.  Not be forced on the populace.  

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I'd like the USA to normalize relations with Cuba. Treat Cuba like the rest of the Caribbean. Stop treating Cuba like Russia's little sister. There's a lot to be said for treating people like humans.

 Cubanos in Miami need to get over their butt hurt. Yeah, their grandfather's lost their land and their money that they got from dealing with the Mafia. Get over it and get on with your pathetic lives.

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They want the people they left behind to starve to the point that they are so weak that they have no choice but to rise up and overthrow the regime, I think. It made sense one night in my teens when I dropped acid, but never again since. 

That's been attempted before  around the world with really poor results....

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The place isn't half bad, well especially without all the tacky Americano fast food outlets.

Interesting, the rest of the world parties in Cuba, No problemo.

I guess the USA is really the only country on the outside looking in.

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6 hours ago, Bugsy said:

Sixty years of sanctions have achieved nothing

I disagree. As was the intent from the start, the sanctions were and are intended to make the Cuban people suffer. 

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7 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

End the sanctions.

I agree with the poster called Bus Driver. Thank you for coming to my TED TALK

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5 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Firste stepp; sende Covid-19 reliefe - vaxx/med staffe/money.  No stringes.

They don't need medical staff.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/02/why-are-there-so-many-cuban-doctors.html

They do need syringes.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/06/04/u-s-imperialists-deprive-cuba-of-syringes-that-are-needed-now/

To administer their own domestically produced vacinnes.

https://www.dw.com/en/cubas-covid-vaccine-rivals-biontech-pfizer-moderna/a-58052365

 

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I want to see him propose ways to save the natural resources.

 

 

image.jpg.1bc9b298949c2d91ca79bef2c7854fec.jpg

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2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

I want to see him propose ways to save the natural resources.

image.jpg.1bc9b298949c2d91ca79bef2c7854fec.jpg

Didde you meane 'save' or haive them 'saved foire me'  ?                                    :)

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2 hours ago, bstrdsonofbtl said:

Thack you.                             :)

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39 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:
8 hours ago, Keith said:

The place isn't half bad, well especially without all the tacky Americano fast food outlets.

Interesting, the rest of the world parties in Cuba, No problemo.

I guess the USA is really the only country on the outside looking in.

If the rest of the world is there, why is it in such dire straits?  

Apparently, the rest of the world are really poor tippers

- DSK

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7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
47 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:
8 hours ago, Keith said:

The place isn't half bad, well especially without all the tacky Americano fast food outlets.

Interesting, the rest of the world parties in Cuba, No problemo.

I guess the USA is really the only country on the outside looking in.

If the rest of the world is there, why is it in such dire straits?  

Expand  Expand  

Apparently, the rest of the world are really poor tippers

I woude of nevere thouhtof that, butte it mackes sense.............              :)

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2 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

If the rest of the world is there, why is it in such dire straits?  

Largely due to supply chain issues.  They cannot procure anything from any US-based or US-affiliated company.  They cannot deal with any bank that is US-based or US-affiliated.   

Allowing the US to set up Wal-Mart, Home Depot and such would go a long way towards making goods widely available.  As would allowing Americans to visit.   

Note however that the Cubans do not want Cuba to turn into the USA with Starbucks and fast food joints on every corner.   The Cubans have their own history, language, traditions and culture that they want to preserve (for comparison, see Honolulu).   

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13 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Maye neede a smalle boate to compleate covere and staye inconspicuouse............                        :)

esense_04.jpg

There's nothing quite like a 143' Wally.

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The pandemic did what the Embargo never could. A rapid fall, the moment tourism shut down. 
Some food for thought that someone put together. 
 

Many blame the US economic embargo for the crisis in Cuba. But:

— The US embargo does not prohibit fishers in Cuba from fishing; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not prohibit the Cuban people from eating meat; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not confiscate the food they harvest from the peasants; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not allow animals to die, and fruit and vegetables rot in the countryside while Cubans go hungry; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not export Cuban fruits and vegetables of the best quality to countries worldwide while Cubans go hungry; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not prohibit Cubans from having their own businesses on the island; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not destroy every sugar mill, textile factory, shoe store, canning factory due to its mismanagement; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not pay Cubans with Cuban pesos and forces you to buy food and essential products in dollars three times more expensive than their actual value; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not force you to put your money in the bank and then forbids you to take it out; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not blackmail exiled Cubans with their families living on the island; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not "export" medical personnel to other countries while the Cuban people die at home due to lack of medical attention; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not beat down and imprisons Cubans for thinking differently; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not indoctrinate children in schools with ideas of Socialism or Death; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not keep hundreds of political prisoners who have not committed any crime; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not build hotels for international tourism while the roofs of Cubans fall on their heads; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not limit the number of Cuban citizens that can travel to Cuba and their luggage size while allowing the unrestricted entry of foreign tourists to the hotels of the military companies; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not keep hospitals in Cuba disgusting; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not raise the price of essential services like water, electricity, gas, and telephony in the most challenging moment of the Covid crisis; the dictatorship did.

My Cuban brothers can follow this endless list. 

The government always blames the US embargo for all its economic, political, and social failures. But United States regularly authorizes the export of agricultural products, medicine, medical equipment, and humanitarian goods to Cuba — and, since 1992, has authorized the export of billions of dollars of those goods to Cuba.

Last year alone, the U.S. exported $176 million of goods to Cuba. In the first six months of 2021, Cuba imported $123 million worth of chicken from the United States — just as an example.

The Cuban government has an internal blockade on its citizens. It has the Cuban people imprisoned in Cuba, hostages of a totalitarian government.

Let me be clear: US government is not God. We Cubans do not want the US embargo, but neither do we want the dictatorship. We Cubans do not want to see our children, parents, brothers, and friends die. We Cubans want justice and freedom. We Cubans want #PatriayVida.

::::::::::

I ask again that if you plan to travel to Cuba in the next few days or have friends who will travel, please, only bring medicines, many medicines, and all the medical supplies you can carry. The people of Cuba need it #SOSCuba

 

******************************

Dumping the embargo won’t fix what ails Cuba. 

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How heartwarming of the mayor.

 

Miami Mayor Francis Suarez on Tuesday suggested that the US should explore the option of air strikes against Cuba.

"What should be contemplated right now is a coalition of potential military action in Cuba," Suarez, a Republican, said in comments on Fox News. Suarez, whose father was born in Cuba and was formerly mayor of Miami, pointed to US interventions in Panama and Kosovo as potential models to follow. 

When asked if he was calling for air strikes in Cuba, Suarez said, "What I'm suggesting is that option is one that has to be explored, and one that cannot be just simply discarded."

Between the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion and CIA-supported assassination attempts on Fidel Castro, the US has a poor track record when it comes to mounting successful military or covert operations against Cuba's Communist government.

Suarez's remarks came after Cuba on Sunday saw the largest anti-government protests in years, with thousands demonstrating against a lack of freedoms and a growing economic crisis under Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel and the Communist regime. South Florida has the largest population of Cuban Americans in the country, and Miami in recent days has seen demonstrations in solidarity with the anti-government protestors in Cuba.

President Joe Biden on Monday said the US fully supports the protestors, but his administration is facing pressure on both sides of the aisle to do more.

While Republicans urge Biden to take a more hardline stance against Cuba's authoritarian government, a number of Democrats have called on the president to lift the decades-old trade embargo and rescind Trump-era sanctions and restrictions that have contributed to medicine and food shortages in the island nation.

Suarez on Tuesday defended the embargo, saying: "I don't think the embargo is cruel at all. I think the Cuban people aren't asking for a lifting of the embargo. They're going out on the streets every single day talking about the failure of the communist regime to provide for its people ... It has failed for six decades."

Critics of the US embargo on Cuba contend that it's failed to foster democratic changes, hurts the Cuban people, and has for years served as a convenient scapegoat for the failings of the Communist government. 

In 2016, then-President Barack Obama called on Congress to lift the embargo.

"It is an outdated burden on the Cuban people," Obama said during a visit to Havana. "It's a burden on the Americans who want to work and do business or invest here in Cuba. It's time to lift the embargo."  https://www.businessinsider.com/miami-mayor-says-us-should-consider-air-strikes-against-cuba-2021-7?utm_source=reddit.com

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

Who dat?

Cuban American FB site I follow. “I love Cuba”. Usually a wealth of pics from the island, and good information. Very cranky of late. 

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Very cranky of late. 

Reads like a disgruntled expat.

"Cuban-American".

So the FB poster lives in the US, I suppose.

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3 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Reads like a disgruntled expat.

"Cuban-American".

So the FB poster lives in the US, I suppose.

I suspect. Roberto Suarez’ “Cuba en fotos” is from Havana. He has to be careful about what he posts but it is a good source of info too. 
 

Don’t be too quick to dismiss info from the US. That info comes from family members. My friends there echoed much of that. 

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18 hours ago, Olsonist said:

I doubt that Miami Cubans would change a bit. I think you are projecting some of your rationality onto their irrationality. Myself, I think no good deed goes unpunished.

Jesus said The poor you will always have with you. He probably then mumbled sotto voce, The nutjobs you will always have with you as well. The nutjobs aren't going anywhere or doing anything. They're nutjobs and staying nutjobs. That's it. That is all. When the Wicked Witch of the West is dripping wet, Miami Cubans won't be belting out Ding Dong la bruja está muerta. It ain't happening. Think Groundhog Day but with better food.

In deference to you, I said nutjobs rather than conservatives. Everyone else can mentally substitute what I really meant to say.

Don’t be so sure. 
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/14/cuba-protests-biden-499621

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The pandemic did what the Embargo never could. A rapid fall, the moment tourism shut down. 
Some food for thought that someone put together. 
 

Many blame the US economic embargo for the crisis in Cuba. But:

— The US embargo does not prohibit fishers in Cuba from fishing; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not prohibit the Cuban people from eating meat; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not confiscate the food they harvest from the peasants; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not allow animals to die, and fruit and vegetables rot in the countryside while Cubans go hungry; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not export Cuban fruits and vegetables of the best quality to countries worldwide while Cubans go hungry; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not prohibit Cubans from having their own businesses on the island; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not destroy every sugar mill, textile factory, shoe store, canning factory due to its mismanagement; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not pay Cubans with Cuban pesos and forces you to buy food and essential products in dollars three times more expensive than their actual value; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not force you to put your money in the bank and then forbids you to take it out; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not blackmail exiled Cubans with their families living on the island; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not "export" medical personnel to other countries while the Cuban people die at home due to lack of medical attention; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not beat down and imprisons Cubans for thinking differently; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not indoctrinate children in schools with ideas of Socialism or Death; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not keep hundreds of political prisoners who have not committed any crime; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not build hotels for international tourism while the roofs of Cubans fall on their heads; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not limit the number of Cuban citizens that can travel to Cuba and their luggage size while allowing the unrestricted entry of foreign tourists to the hotels of the military companies; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not keep hospitals in Cuba disgusting; the dictatorship does.
— The US embargo does not raise the price of essential services like water, electricity, gas, and telephony in the most challenging moment of the Covid crisis; the dictatorship did.

My Cuban brothers can follow this endless list. 

The government always blames the US embargo for all its economic, political, and social failures. But United States regularly authorizes the export of agricultural products, medicine, medical equipment, and humanitarian goods to Cuba — and, since 1992, has authorized the export of billions of dollars of those goods to Cuba.

Last year alone, the U.S. exported $176 million of goods to Cuba. In the first six months of 2021, Cuba imported $123 million worth of chicken from the United States — just as an example.

The Cuban government has an internal blockade on its citizens. It has the Cuban people imprisoned in Cuba, hostages of a totalitarian government.

Let me be clear: US government is not God. We Cubans do not want the US embargo, but neither do we want the dictatorship. We Cubans do not want to see our children, parents, brothers, and friends die. We Cubans want justice and freedom. We Cubans want #PatriayVida.

::::::::::

I ask again that if you plan to travel to Cuba in the next few days or have friends who will travel, please, only bring medicines, many medicines, and all the medical supplies you can carry. The people of Cuba need it #SOSCuba

 

******************************

Dumping the embargo won’t fix what ails Cuba. 

Mostly faux information promulgated by an anti Castro expat.

Forgive me for rolling my eyes and yawning.

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Re: the OP;

Something different.

What Y'all been doing for the past 60+ years ain't been working.

Very much like the WOD.

What's that old definition of insanity?

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 "The US embargo does not "export" medical personnel to other countries while the Cuban people die at home due to lack of medical attention; the dictatorship does."

This guy gives Cuban health care good marks:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2315760/

Yes, it's from 1990. Has it changed?

 

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56 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

 "The US embargo does not "export" medical personnel to other countries while the Cuban people die at home due to lack of medical attention; the dictatorship does."

This guy gives Cuban health care good marks:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2315760/

Yes, it's from 1990. Has it changed?

 

Apparently Michael Moore told us it was the best run system in the world in his movie Sicko in 2007. 

 

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What Moore actually said:

One thing is clear - the Cuban people have free universal healthcare.
They've become known as having not only one of the best healthcare systems.
But as being one of the most generous countries in providing doctors
and medical equipment to Third World countries.

In the US, healthcare costs run nearly $7000 per person.
But in Cuba, they spend only $251.

And yet the Cubans are able to have a lower infant mortality rate than the US.
A longer average life span than the United States.
They believe in preventive medicine.

 

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It is not an either/or situation but Biden needs to focus on getting the voting rights bill passed as well as infrastructure legislation.  If that means a carve out of the filibuster so be it.  November ‘22 is getting closer every day and it’s a pretty good bet the Dems will lose their majority in at least one house.  Cuba has been a problem for 60 years.  Even if Biden does everything right with respect to Cuba, Fla will not turn blue any time soon.

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21 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Do something that pleases the Cubans in Florida so much they vote Democrat from now on. 

He should go to Miami and demand that Cuba hold free and fair elections.  GOP heads would explode.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

What Moore actually said:

One thing is clear - the Cuban people have free universal healthcare.
They've become known as having not only one of the best healthcare systems.
But as being one of the most generous countries in providing doctors
and medical equipment to Third World countries.

In the US, healthcare costs run nearly $7000 per person.
But in Cuba, they spend only $251.

And yet the Cubans are able to have a lower infant mortality rate than the US.
A longer average life span than the United States.
They believe in preventive medicine.

 

Part of the reason is they don't have as much food, so 40% of them aren't morbidly obese.

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5 hours ago, spankoka said:

What's non-factual here? 

Pretty much all of it. Do a little research, and you'll find a lot of information that hasn't been spewed by the Ex-pat community, or the CIA.

 Get out, meet your real life neighbors. Cuban people are not your enemy, and the Govt. of Cuba is not trying to crush the peasants..... Remember the revolution, and what it was about? Yeah. It's the USA that has it's heel on the neck of the Cuban farmer, not the "Castro regime"...

 The Mafia and Wall street bankers want their island back.

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The thing of it is that the embargo has been so subverted over the years by Canada and Mexico that it it meaningless at this point. You tell me, how should property disputes in Cuba be settled going forward? The nickel-cobalt mines in Cuba are controlled out of Toronto, do they lose their investments or not? 

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6 minutes ago, spankoka said:

The thing of it is that the embargo has been so subverted over the years by Canada and Mexico that it it meaningless at this point. 

That’s a fresh take.  The idea that an economic embargo by the worlds largest economy located just 90 miles away hasn’t had devastating effect is fanciful.

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10 minutes ago, spankoka said:

The thing of it is that the embargo has been so subverted over the years by Canada and Mexico that it it meaningless at this point. You tell me, how should property disputes in Cuba be settled going forward? The nickel-cobalt mines in Cuba are controlled out of Toronto, do they lose their investments or not? 

Why would they lose their investment? It would stand to reason that selling to the USA would be less expensive than selling anywhere else given the geography.

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5 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

That’s a fresh take.  The idea that an economic embargo by the worlds largest economy located just 90 miles away hasn’t had devastating effect is fanciful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the regime gets its vehicles from a dealer in Halifax that probably sells more vehicles in Havana than Halifax. That they get stuck with Chrysler products is the real injustice here. 

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2 minutes ago, spankoka said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the regime gets its vehicles from a dealer in Halifax that probably sells more vehicles in Havana than Halifax. That they get stuck with Chrysler products is the real injustice here. 

Oh f your talking about the regime that’s a different matter.  They’re never impacted.  Lil Kim gets driven around in an armored Maybach.

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Yes, and he owns a Princess motor yacht. The point is that it is the embargo that sustains the regime as is. When and if Carnival Cruise Lines and Michael Jordan show up with their respective boats, then all bets are off. Property disputes will be settled by who will pay the biggest bribes. I think this is called "the Chinese model". 

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WRT Cuba, end the sanctions and start working toward normalization of diplomatic ties. Start with food and medical supplies monitored by the WHO. Hold out the carrot of subsidies in other areas combined with the stick of monitored, free elections or we take it all away.

Sadly, with Americans actively seeking to take away voting rights from other Americans, we no longer have the high ground in this battle. It's hard to conduct foreign policy based on increasing democracy abroad when fascism is taking root at home.

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