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7 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

Are Alex/Hugo Boss even relevant anymore.  I would have thought, given their time in the shed and long lay off after Vendee, that she would be making a better showing, but I must not be up on the latest.

 

Alex and the HB team have always been open about saying the boat was never designed with any fucks given towards non Vendee conditions. 

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A few snapped from hurst

A small sample of the many hundreds of photos I took today from the Hurst Castle vantage point. Skorpios, Hugo Boss, Apivia, 11th Hour Racing etc. I will add more tomorrow when I have time t

If I was involved with a boat where checking the keel bolts that often was considered necessary in a lumpy sea I would not be doing the Fastnet on it.

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11 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

Are Alex/Hugo Boss even relevant anymore.  I would have thought, given their time in the shed and long lay off after Vendee, that she would be making a better showing, but I must not be up on the latest.

 

There was a lot of talk in the most recent Vendee thread about how the latest HB was a pretty extreme design optimised for southern ocean reaching and downwind conditions. I don’t think any amount of shed time would turn the boat into a strong upwind performer…

That said, HB’s performance is being made to look very ordinary by Apivia in particular but also the whole IMOCA fleet tbh. I’d also expected them to be doing a bit better than they are, even if the conditions aren’t ideal for the boat.

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Alex and the HB team have always been open about saying the boat was never designed with any fucks given towards non Vendee conditions. 

Fair enough, but the only fucks they gave sure didn't work out so well, so someone should be asking for their money back...

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Just now, Thisnametaken said:

Fair enough, but the only fucks they gave sure didn't work out so well, so someone should be asking for their money back...

Or maybe give some fucks, maybe one or two.

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11 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Can someone knowledgeable mariner explain why the bulk of the fleet has been hugging the Cornish coast so closely? Does it have tide advantages? Or is the wind high enough that it's easier in there? 

There are tide gates along the south coast, if you’re against the tide it can pay to hug the coast line to escape it whilst having positive tide means you want to pick up the strongest current nearer by. A lot of the time there are wind shifts that can be played to good advantage as well. 

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Alex and the HB team have always been open about saying the boat was never designed with any fucks given towards non Vendee conditions. 

The evidence suggests it's not very quick in Vendee conditions either. Think Thompson needs a rethink. 

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3 minutes ago, Buzzer said:

The evidence suggests it's not very quick in Vendee conditions either. Think Thompson needs a rethink. 

I dunno about that, before HB had the damage Alex was solidly in the top 3 sailing at comparable pace to Apivia & LinkedOut. And if the boat performed as it was meant to in the southern ocean, he could well have taken a lead - but of course that’s total speculation ;)

Anyway getting a bit off topic for the Fastnet thread - I see Gitana will finish in the next few minutes!! Damn that thing is quick. 

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Just now, Laser1 said:

And the old Sodebo is blowing past the new Sodebo.  Imagine the conversation on board that one :lol:   Actual is old Sodebo IIRC.

Actual is Macif100

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On 8/8/2021 at 10:48 AM, Zonker said:

A friend of mine, Brad Baker, who lives in Seattle, has been fighting a brain cancer for several years. He's sailing there this year. 

Go Brad!

The boat (Beneteau First 40) that he's on just pulled out of the race due to a leaking keelbolt.  Ugh!

http://sailish.com/index.php/2021/08/09/jazz-paused-by-leaking-keelbolt-in-fastnet/?fbclid=IwAR3xhB1C8up2fSpiIhZNeci_dFC-ymy_X2k_MtBXGvHCF4vjFkK1KewoJDQ

 

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8 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

Either Rambler got to  the rock and decided to turn around or the tracker is doing some funky shit a-la what we saw during transpac

Look with more magnification and see their track, they are headed east immediately after rounding.  ie, take the lumps immediately to head to more breeze and a better angle.

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As of right now Juan K occupies the top 3 IRC overall positions. I know that probably won’t last long, just thought it was slightly amusing and he’s probably loving it 

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27 minutes ago, fergusjack said:

Rambler going the wrong way according to my interpretation of the SI’s

E77E86E8-4F91-4FB5-9591-331AED235A7F.jpeg

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing. Has to leave the fastnet TSS to port while going to the rock and leave it to port while returning from the rock. Really unbelievable at that level. 

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15 minutes ago, Afrayedknot said:

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing. Has to leave the fastnet TSS to port while going to the rock and leave it to port while returning from the rock. Really unbelievable at that level. 

Who's the naviguesser on Rambler?

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56 minutes ago, Thisnametaken said:

Who's the naviguesser on Rambler?

Brad Butterworth is their tactician, not sure on navigator, pretty hilarious mistake to make if its deemed they did

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13 minutes ago, Fintho said:

Brad Butterworth is their tactician, not sure on navigator, pretty hilarious mistake to make if its deemed they did

There’s got to be a lot of big brain power in the after guard to fuck up at that level. 

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33 minutes ago, Dacron said:

Jules Salter

As a lawyer he should be able to read (and write), imnotsoho.

BTW, where is Wouter navigating on?

PS. Fuck, did they also cross the DSS (and left the rock to stbd)?

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Must have short memories too….. Since when has rounding Fastnet Rock ever been anything else other than rounding to port?

Interesting split between Sodebo and Actual….

Edited by Sidecar
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44 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Must have short memories too….. Since when has rounding Fastnet Rock ever been anything else other than rounding to port?

I may be wrong, but I think they rounded the rock to port and then turned aggressively to pass between the rock and the TSS.  I'm not defending going to the wrong side of the TSS if the other side was mandatory...  Just saying I don't think they went the wrong way around the rock...

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3 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I may be wrong, but I think they rounded the rock to port and then turned aggressively to pass between the rock and the TSS.  I'm not defending going to the wrong side of the TSS if the other side was mandatory...  Just saying I don't think they went the wrong way around the rock...

Which begs the question: have prior iterations of the race instructions also designated a TSS and, if so, was it to be left to port?  It's one thing to not completely understand the race instructions - inexcusable at this level - but most of these guys have done this before.

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They have had TSS’s for a while now. None of the other TSS’s seem to have a required rounding side, as evidenced by many other yacht tracks, so I wouldn’t expect the Fastnet TSS to have a required side either, but I then haven’t read the SI’s….

Sodebo and Actual are interesting. Which ever way the tide is running, Actual is in more current. Not uncommon to see 5-6 knots at the top end of Sark….I don’t trust the tracker, the currents displayed  in the central channel seems to be on permanent ebb, although the tracks and speeds of Maître Coq and Obportus IV would suggest that it is ebbing….

Looks  like max ebb current pretty soon. Low water St Peter Port 0244 BST.

https://www.rciyc.com/navigation/

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Well Well Well, Look whose winning Line Honors, IRC Zero and IRC Overall..! Surely not a boat with C Foils...? WTF.? 

If it stays this way, ala big boat race, what a debut it would be for Skorpios..! 

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47 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

Have to leave the Fastnet TSS to port in both directions

image.png.c0db81374aa7944c0794dd88a0340170.pngimage.png.31103068b1cd96f0386668f4d2d391ba.png

Looks like Rambler cannot read the SIs, sack the naviguessor?

I imagine the bowman would have told them which way to go but as per usual the bowman (who knows everything) isn't listened to by the apparent "brains trust"! Haha

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6 minutes ago, Ripple Rider said:

Looks like Rambler cannot read the SIs, sack the naviguessor?

I imagine the bowman would have told them which way to go but as per usual the bowman (who knows everything) isn't listened to by the apparent "brains trust"! Haha

Wow I didn't notice this on the tracker. I just assumed they rounded the Rock and kept the TSS on Port.! 

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8 hours ago, trisail said:

Imagine being on Skorpios and asking, "Tea anyone?"

And on Apivia, 'hey bud, would you like some tea?"

Double handed. Offshore in 25-30knots.

I don't recall tea being an option. We must have been doing it wrong

 

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8 hours ago, Monkey said:

Alex and the HB team have always been open about saying the boat was never designed with any fucks given towards non Vendee conditions. 

(Not Talking to you Monkey, this is for Hugo Boss) Non Vendee Conditions.? Gotta love that. So what the fuck was Apivia designed for.? How about going fast at nearly everything? What a misnomer that is. Nowadays in a climate changed world the boats are experiencing everything it just blows my mind how Apivia went beneath Hugo Boss like they were standing still. (Watch the Imoca Start). Charlie and his design team have got it right. Alex isn't acknowledging his current Fastnet performance of being basically last and I don't believe it's solely a design issue. It sounds like they really don't give a rats and have conned the sailing public into believing they are still relevant, quote someone else in these forums.!

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6 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

(Not Talking to you Monkey, this is for Hugo Boss) Non Vendee Conditions.? Gotta love that. So what the fuck was Apivia designed for.? How about going fast at nearly everything? What a misnomer that is. Nowadays in a climate changed world the boats are experiencing everything it just blows my mind how Apivia went beneath Hugo Boss like they were standing still. (Watch the Imoca Start). Charlie and his design team have got it right. Alex isn't acknowledging his current Fastnet performance of being basically last and I don't believe it's solely a design issue. It sounds like they really don't give a rats and have conned the sailing public into believing they are still relevant, quote someone else in these forums.!

This.  Alex has proven he's a player with the right ride.  This ride is a dog.  And the minute that ride was doing well, it started to fall apart.  But has he lost faith in the ride and therefore his mojo?

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Skorpios has the option of going South of the last TSS zone or cutting through the middle like Ultim Emotion, looking at the angles for her I'd be tempted to go around the most Southerly TSS zone but that's purely based on the wind overlay as to what's really happening on the boat. 

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55 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Skorpios has the option of going South of the last TSS zone or cutting through the middle like Ultim Emotion, looking at the angles for her I'd be tempted to go around the most Southerly TSS zone but that's purely based on the wind overlay as to what's really happening on the boat. 

Wind and forecast wind is critical to all entrants and it appears to be fading into the future. Tidal Currents in this part of the world are also incredibly important to consider, and all competitors should be setting themselves up at the Scilly Isles for their approach to the Alderney Race and their final push towards the finish line. The Alderney race will be flowing at up to 9.5knots at times, many boats wont be able to sail that fast if they find themselves going against it. 

Skorpios are sure to have routing software to bring it all together with forecast winds and currents based on the known boat polars.

Here is what the tide is doing now for all entrants, courtesy of Tidetech Marine Data

image.thumb.png.bb046a9ab4ef8b38200f59493ee04975.png

 

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3 hours ago, Ripple Rider said:

I imagine the bowman would have told them which way to go but as per usual the bowman (who knows everything) isn't listened to by the apparent "brains trust"! Haha

I will certainly ask the bowman what happened when gets back downunder.

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46 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Compare the Tidetech data with what the tracker is currently (sorry) showing……

It is roughly slack water in Guernsey now and about to flood, current wise..

Looks like the Tracker using Windy shows the Tide ebbing (east to west) by all account the tide is flooding now (west to east). One of them is right, the other is not. I would trust Tidetech, since that is what they do. 

 

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4 hours ago, Ripple Rider said:

Looks like Rambler cannot read the SIs, sack the naviguessor?

I imagine the bowman would have told them which way to go but as per usual the bowman (who knows everything) isn't listened to by the apparent "brains trust"! Haha

I want to be a fly on the wall when they realize their error. Maybe Salter knows something we don’t. (Hopefully for him) But if he pooched it this bad I’d expect him to not only get fired but it would be admirable to forgo your pay for the race. So in the realm of 1500-2500 a day. 

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So it seems pretty obvious that they cut the wrong side of the TSS.

Does this require a protest from a fellow competitor or is it an RC/ Jury DSQ?

The opportunity for a face-saving RET has probably passed?

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You can always not declare and retire are cruising the finish line. 

I did that once after a fellow competitor kindly pointed out i had not sailed the correct course. Fortunately it was not the Fastnet.

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I think they’ll get over it, not like they’re in a line honours position and they don’t have to please anyone except George. This isn’t as bad as when Phaedo rounded the wrong island in the middle sea race costing them the race. Sometimes these things need context

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2 minutes ago, JL92S said:

I think they’ll get over it, not like they’re in a line honours position and they don’t have to please anyone except George. This isn’t as bad as when Phaedo rounded the wrong island in the middle sea race costing them the race. Sometimes these things need context

Yeah. (For context) How pleased would you be if someone couldn’t verify the course whilst paying I dunno 50-100k a day for the boat to sail? It’s not just the dailies... Its yard days, shipping, maintenance. My guess is you’re close to 6 figures a day to sail that boat and you can’t figure out the 5 defined marks of the course? Again. They may know something we don’t but then again, no one else has done what they did. 

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6 minutes ago, JL92S said:

I think they’ll get over it, not like they’re in a line honours position and they don’t have to please anyone except George. This isn’t as bad as when Phaedo rounded the wrong island in the middle sea race costing them the race. Sometimes these things need context

they will have to drop the selling price on rambler after this race .. 

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1 hour ago, Ripple Rider said:

Looks like the Tracker using Windy shows the Tide ebbing (east to west) by all account the tide is flooding now (west to east). One of them is right, the other is not. I would trust Tidetech, since that is what they do. 

The clue was given with the Guernsey (St Peter Port) data…… Tidetech is more correct.

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22 minutes ago, Afrayedknot said:

Yeah. (For context) How pleased would you be if someone couldn’t verify the course whilst paying I dunno 50-100k a day for the boat to sail? It’s not just the dailies... Its yard days, shipping, maintenance. My guess is you’re close to 6 figures a day to sail that boat and you can’t figure out the 5 defined marks of the course? Again. They may know something we don’t but then again, no one else has done what they did. 

BB would be on a pretty penny that's for sure.! I wonder if BB offers a service "No Win No Fee.!" :D I watched their track and certainly rounded the mark and went straight back the way they come obviously looking for more leverage at gaining. It's gone lighter now and Skorpios is creating her own apparent wind and running down the Multi Ultime Emotion. Love to know what it's blowing if Skorpios is going at 13-14 Knots at her current angle it would be under 10 knots I'm guessing?

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51 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

A lot of boats going backward off the Lizard

Yeah when you look at the Tracker it's a sea of boats going in every direction. Makes you wonder if some of them know what they are doing.? LOL. For the boats coming back in it's a minefield out there..

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34 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Pic of the vessel that retired due to "leaking keel bolt"

307634531.gallery.jpg

Good decision to retire!

I would be keen to know what made them look at the keel bolts? Given the amount of water falling out of the skies around here there would have been a fair amount inside the boats anyway.  Glad they spotted it.

 

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47 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Pic of the vessel that retired due to "leaking keel bolt"

307634531.gallery.jpg

That doesn't look too far to letting go altogether. With the pounding they were getting going upwind, if they had continued it could have been a real 'Drum' moment. Like @Potter, I wonder what drew their attention to it. Having said that, it looks like a 'leaking keel bolt' would not have just been a trickle.

I bet it was a real Holy F*** moment as that came into view on the Travelhoist

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I think in a lumpy sea for such a prolonged time, checking on your bolts should be on your checklist with at least every watch change.

I take it that one above is Jazz? First 40 designs have their grid bonded to the hull, not laminated in, afaik? Same as the Cheeky Rafiki 40.7 design?

Looks like a full loss, given that crack in the hull.

I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of owners will find similar things after the race. Only some will come forward, of course, some will try to sell as quickly as possible.

 

The other one retired with keel issues is Jameerah, a J/120, also a design not without keel issues in the past.

 

Keel design should play a much more prominent role when determining OSR category. Bonded in is not good enough.

 

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54 minutes ago, Potter said:

Good decision to retire!

I would be keen to know what made them look at the keel bolts? Given the amount of water falling out of the skies around here there would have been a fair amount inside the boats anyway.  Glad they spotted it.

 

From the shape of the crack, they could have 'touched' some land before or during the race, decided to start anyways and check regularly.  

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

I think in a lumpy sea for such a prolonged time, checking on your bolts should be on your checklist with at least every watch change.

 

If I was involved with a boat where checking the keel bolts that often was considered necessary in a lumpy sea I would not be doing the Fastnet on it.

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2 hours ago, Potter said:

Good decision to retire!

I would be keen to know what made them look at the keel bolts? Given the amount of water falling out of the skies around here there would have been a fair amount inside the boats anyway.  Glad they spotted it.

 

I don’t do it to check keel bolts, but do lift up a floor board to check the bilge every watch change. It’s never been for fear of sinking, but just to see if we’re hauling any extra water that snuck in. 

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