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I’ve been streaming the olympics every night so far and it’s hard to say what’s preferred: absolute silence or listening to the ramblings from Gary Jobo. I think I prefer silence. The only time I turn the sound on is at mark roundings when you can hear the sailors talking/ yelling. The rest of the time is ramblings of a person that could not be conceived as having a coherent thought. 

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I’m gonna VPN to a kiwi or Aussie stream. It’s not just the monotone. It’s actually quite impressive what he’s doing. He can’t describe to non sailors what is happening. And, that is also the same for people who know what is actually occurring. His referencing of the men’s ‘laser radial’ fleet for the 8th time really got me wound up. I wish there was some sort of comment function for the nbc stream so I had a .1% chance of my complaint being heard. 

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1 hour ago, JeSa-SA said:

Yup! It's equally frustrating for sailors AND non-sailors, I agree. Oh and, man, learn how to pronounce Montenegro!

That's easy..   Black Mountain..

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Gary Jobson needs to sharpen his game. On today's Laser Men's (ILCA 7) race. Some of the many commentating mistakes he made today:

  1. He didn't know the name of the French ILCA 7 sailor.
  2. He wasn't sure if El Salvador hit the weather mark on a replay. They didn't... that was clear in the rounding, which was shown a couple of minutes earlier.
  3. He said that competitors couldn't rock to surf. You can never rock to surf ... rocking defined as *repeated* rolling of the boat -- that's prohibited under rule 42. Saying that competitors can't rock to surf is like saying they can't put an outboard on your boat.
  4. He claimed that El Salvador did a penalty turn for pumping. In reality, the umpires only signal a rule 42 violation, not the specific prohibited action (pumping, rocking, ooching).
  5. He claimed that France's vang was tight around the leeward mark when it clearly wasn't.
  6. He claimed that El Salvador was taking Brazil's wind, when Brazil's leech was clearly flapping, indicating that Scheidt was well by the lee.

He's not knowledgeable, he's not well prepared, and he's not paying attention.

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8 hours ago, anarchist68 said:

Gary Jobson needs to sharpen his game. On today's Laser Men's (ILCA 7) race. Some of the many commentating mistakes he made today:

  1. He didn't know the name of the French ILCA 7 sailor.
  2. He wasn't sure if El Salvador hit the weather mark on a replay. They didn't... that was clear in the rounding, which was shown a couple of minutes earlier.
  3. He said that competitors couldn't rock to surf. You can never rock to surf ... rocking defined as *repeated* rolling of the boat -- that's prohibited under rule 42. Saying that competitors can't rock to surf is like saying they can't put an outboard on your boat.
  4. He claimed that El Salvador did a penalty turn for pumping. In reality, the umpires only signal a rule 42 violation, not the specific prohibited action (pumping, rocking, ooching).
  5. He claimed that France's vang was tight around the leeward mark when it clearly wasn't.
  6. He claimed that El Salvador was taking Brazil's wind, when Brazil's leech was clearly flapping, indicating that Scheidt was well by the lee.

He's not knowledgeable, he's not well prepared, and he's not paying attention.

Most of these gripes/criticisms are nitpicking.  No question Jobson should move on, but saying ES had to spin for pumping gives some context for rule 42. It’s easy enough to watch and make your own judgements.   
 

my gripe with the broadcast is the reliance on live shots that don’t really give a good idea of the course.  More overhead shots and better data would make it more interesting to watch.  What they’re showing now is a montage of onboard and general shots that follow random action.   It’s not well conceived.  

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9 hours ago, eliboat said:

Most of these gripes/criticisms are nitpicking.  No question Jobson should move on, but saying ES had to spin for pumping gives some context for rule 42. It’s easy enough to watch and make your own judgements.   
 

my gripe with the broadcast is the reliance on live shots that don’t really give a good idea of the course.  More overhead shots and better data would make it more interesting to watch.  What they’re showing now is a montage of onboard and general shots that follow random action.   It’s not well conceived.  

Perhaps some of those are nitpicking. However, his observational awareness is really lacking. Doesn’t know why fouls have occurred, doesn’t know how many turns have to be done for penalties; he’s obsessed with talking about boat lengths per second/ what maneuvers cost. Pretty sure a good roll gybe is beneficial, and doesn’t lose you boat lengths in dinghys. He must be thinking of 12 meters. I’ll say it again, he can’t explain to non sailors what is happening and also can’t commentate to the sailors watching, which is an impressive feat. 
 

 

if you’re looking for a good tracker with good metrics for all classes it’s here:

 

https://www.australiansailingteam.com.au/olympics/live-tracking/

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Alan Block or Ginny Tulloch or somebody entertaining like Brad Funk would be a huge improvement over Jobson.  Jobson is a good guy, but dude, time to give someone else a chance!  He said something about the Men's Laser Radial and was saying that the key to surfing a laser downwind is to bury your bow in the wave ahead of you, lol...

Kudos to NBC for the quality streaming online for everybody here in USA (save for the cheapos or broke asses that dont have a cable tv plan)

 

 

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...A close friend of the family is actually high up at NBC sports and i've just alerted him to the issue.  Hopefully some sort of intervention can be staged and Jobo replaced with a proper sailor / commentator rather than some ancient corpse of a sailor from the 1980's, sorry but cmon man this is sad.

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My LIST OF CLASSES THAT CAN GET FUCKED!

1. any class that allows pumping.

So that rules out most of the Olympic Classes don't it.

Really enjoyed the N17's.  The mixed gender thing is good.

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18 hours ago, cbags said:

What sites have the races streamed "live" outside of the US? That doesn't require a subscription? 

I have been watching it on Oz Seven Plus+

No subscription, just your identity so they can spam you for life.

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2 minutes ago, random. said:

My LIST OF CLASSES THAT CAN GET FUCKED!

1. any class that allows pumping.

So that rules out most of the Olympic Classes don't it.

Really enjoyed the N17's.  The mixed gender thing is good.

Oh my fucking god.

I was actually stoked to watch some of this sailing, given how far the broadcasts have come (the video quality, not the commentating).

I could barely tolerate half the boats. Fuck the Finn. Fuck the 470. What absolute garbage sailing.

I wish a swift death to all Olympic classes except the Nacra 17.

Can we please move on from boats which are 50 to 80 years old? This is actually embarrassing.

Can we please change the rules to get rid of all unnatural body movements and positions? Everyone doing it looks like a fucking moron.

2020-01-28_10-31-47-620x350.jpg

Melges 24 Worlds – The waters of Miami – A Challenging race course

Star | Sailing World

ticky tack? – Sailing Anarchy

Sorry I had to throw that last one in there hahahahaha

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20 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

 

I could barely tolerate half the boats. Fuck the Finn. Fuck the 470. What absolute garbage sailing.

I wish a swift death to all Olympic classes except the Nacra 17.

It is embarrassing.  That's not sailing.

But I can see how the only solution is to let them go hard at it, because pinging the cheats would be too hard otherwise.

Death to all the dinghy classes that fly a Code Flag Zero at the start.

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Watching women's 49ers replay yesterday. Announcer scatters some seeds of knowledge about the boat and its design. Says it's just a touch less than five meters long--reason it's not a full five meters is because Japan has a high tax on boats five meters and over. Makes it sound like the 49er is a new design--created especially for current Olympics in current location. 

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6 minutes ago, Muldoon said:

 

Watching women's 49ers replay yesterday. Announcer scatters some seeds of knowledge about the boat and its design. Says it's just a touch less than five meters long--reason it's not a full five meters is because Japan has a high tax on boats five meters and over. Makes it sound like the 49er is a new design--created especially for current Olympics in current location. 

while we all know that the 49er has now been around for 25 years, the comment about being 4.99m to get below a Japanese tax threshold is actually true - Bethwaite will probably tell you that it was originally commissioned for the Japanese, before it entered and won the Olympic selection trials for 2000  

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I don't know what all the bitchin' is about.  I randomly chose the 470 broadcast "episode" (3 hours) and watched the first 470 race which showed SWE and AUS dukin' it out in 15 kt breeze and 3-4 foot chop.  Seriously impressed with the coverage.

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I have been watching the races on NBCOlympics.com.  I agree that Jobson's commentary sucks. For example, in the 470 race he was calling 1' - 2' seas 3' - 4'.  And, sometimes the cameras cut away at just the wrong time.  But, overall, I have found the racing to be a fascinating clinic on technique.  I find the sailors to be athletic with extreme stamina to work so hard all the way around the course.  I have learned a lot about milking boat speed using different techniques in the different classes.  I don't understand why the 470 trapeze artists are pelvic thrusting, but it must work because they are all doing it.  I had never seen catamaran sailors dancing fore and aft on the wire downwind instead of just locking in at the stern like the 49ers, but again, it must work because they all do it. One of the many aspects of sailing that I really enjoy is using live ballast for optimal hull trim and seeing these elite athletes excel at that practice is very interesting to me. 

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I caught a couple of the 49erFX races and I must admit, I was incredibly impressed with those female athletes. excellent yachtswomen.

the camerawork and the tech is generally very very good.  It would be fun to "mute" the broadcast and have sailors in the know record a commentary track to play simultaneously... 

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Agreed, my wife and I have watched the women's 46er FX races and they were excellent. Men's 49er was pretty good too, after the abandonment. Yes, Jobson's voice is enough to put you to sleep, but the coverage with a few exceptions is otherwise excellent. Will have to go find the Nacra race from yesterday. Lasers and windsurfers on the first day were downright boring. And Jobson kept referring to the windsurfers as boats, only occasionally calling them boards.

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:39 PM, darth reapius said:

So apparently the Aussie host isn't doing replays only live...

Where would be best to VPN to, to watch full race replays?

It is a bit hard to put together a 'highlight reel of the Aussies so far. Anyway fuck the Olympics. All the chest beating over the success of the last few games have not encouraged a single kid to take up the sport. It just gave one club that gives honoury memberships to Olympians the ability to falsely claim what a great training ground they are. 'Their' gold medal winner hasn't been near the place in years.

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:39 PM, darth reapius said:

So apparently the Aussie host isn't doing replays only live...

Where would be best to VPN to, to watch full race replays?

There are replays on Seven Plus+, if you can work through the shit interface design.

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2 hours ago, unShirley said:

I have been watching the races on NBCOlympics.com.  I agree that Jobson's commentary sucks. For example, in the 470 race he was calling 1' - 2' seas 3' - 4'.  And, sometimes the cameras cut away at just the wrong time.  But, overall, I have found the racing to be a fascinating clinic on technique.  I find the sailors to be athletic with extreme stamina to work so hard all the way around the course.  I have learned a lot about milking boat speed using different techniques in the different classes.  I don't understand why the 470 trapeze artists are pelvic thrusting, but it must work because they are all doing it.  I had never seen catamaran sailors dancing fore and aft on the wire downwind instead of just locking in at the stern like the 49ers, but again, it must work because they all do it. One of the many aspects of sailing that I really enjoy is using live ballast for optimal hull trim and seeing these elite athletes excel at that practice is very interesting to me. 

Aha! this is the page which for the life of me I could not find last night & which explains my frustration, it was okay watching upstairs on the TV but it is nice & cool downstairs with the computer.

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24 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

Wait what?! App or TV or Computer? I haven't been able to find jack.

Phone/iPad/computer app.  I'm watching it on my laptop.

Smart TV should be able to connect, create free account and you are good to go!

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Maybe less misinformation would be spewed if he had a counterpart to discuss things with... Maybe someone that would say, no. Not really how it works. Or, Gary, in my opinion I see this as ...... . Only thing he’s good at is watching the gps with course overlay to predict when people are gonna tack at a layline and then proclaim to everyone how right he was...

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Just watched the start of the Womens 470's

Got to a Black Flag, half the fleet were OCS, only heard of two being pinged for it.

Disgraceful at that level that they were, even worse that the RC wasn't up to flicking all those responsible.

Had to stop watching on the first downwind when the commentators started complementing the Spanish pair for being 'so dynamic'.

Someone needs to be pumped for this debacle, and it ain't the boats

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12 hours ago, crashtack said:

LMAO there are really people who want olympic sailing to be LESS athletic? Ahahahaha that's pathetic, this isn't wednesday night beercan racing you dolts

You realise this is fucking sailing, not athletics right?

I would absolutely propose the most athletic AND skilled boats to sail.

I just think that rolling a fat fucking pig downhill is absolutely un-impressive and the whole fucking world agrees. While watching someone hike their guts out on a boat which planes, or trapping on a cat doing 20+ knots is absolutely impressive.

Like forgive me if I think this is boring as shit to watch.

Consistent Zsombor Berecz leads after opening day at Finn Europeans in  Vilamoura |

I think the Olympics should look like:

Melges 14 US National Championship >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

2015 Moth Worlds – Dirona Around the World

http://www.elwoodsc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/F18s.jpg

49er, 49erFX and Nacra 17 fleets at Ready Steady Tokyo - Day 4

Fareast 28R Sails - Mainsails, Jibs, and Spinnakers | North Sails

Modern low-tech dinghy, Modern high-tech dinghy, Modern low-tech cat, Modern high-tech cat, Modern performance keel-boat.

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Jobson wouldn't know a long-lens if it poked him in the eye.
The guy keeps seeing 470s stealing each other's breeze downwind when they're 100 yds apart. SMH...
Oh, and his gripe about dinghies sitting on the line before the gun instead of out-maneuvering each other all the way to the gun... Heard of fleet racing much?

Get the guy a buddy in the booth! The broadcast production is actually pretty decent, it's a shame to have it ruined by the commentary.

Oh man, and now we're treated to a (warped) history lesson on windsurfing - something that he CLEARLY knows absolutely nothing about. Sigh...

 

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2 hours ago, darth reapius said:

You realise this is fucking sailing, not athletics right?

I would absolutely propose the most athletic AND skilled boats to sail.

I just think that rolling a fat fucking pig downhill is absolutely un-impressive and the whole fucking world agrees. While watching someone hike their guts out on a boat which planes, or trapping on a cat doing 20+ knots is absolutely impressive.

Like forgive me if I think this is boring as shit to watch.

Consistent Zsombor Berecz leads after opening day at Finn Europeans in  Vilamoura |

I think the Olympics should look like:

Melges 14 US National Championship >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

2015 Moth Worlds – Dirona Around the World

http://www.elwoodsc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/F18s.jpg

49er, 49erFX and Nacra 17 fleets at Ready Steady Tokyo - Day 4

Fareast 28R Sails - Mainsails, Jibs, and Spinnakers | North Sails

Modern low-tech dinghy, Modern high-tech dinghy, Modern low-tech cat, Modern high-tech cat, Modern performance keel-boat.

The argument depends on what you want to achieve...and the Lympix is now predominantly a "sports as entertainment" event....so fast, colourful young and sexy gets the eyeballs that attracts the sponsors that pays for the circus. If it was just a sports event, then the goal is close racing with outcomes determined by tactics and athleticism. What we're seeing at the Lympix is the transition (it's been going for a while, but now is accelerating due to massive drops in viewership and revenues) from a sports event to an entertainment event....which means the most "tactical and athletic" classes (eg Finn) will be dropped for "Fast & Furious" (eg Foiling Kiteboards)....interesting to note that performance also means lack of close finishing....with the nacra fleet spread over nearly 1.5 legs...same with the boards...my bet is that the foiling kites will be even more spread....so high performance wins in the drama of "incidents" but loses in the drama of close fleet racing.

Bottom line is: viewership numbers and harvestable marketing data will increasingly drive lympix event selection. Traditional sailing fails to draw significant eyeballs. The IOC say: "make it marketable or it's dropped". Sailing is under review....make it fast, furious, sexy and easy to understand...or it's out! Foiling Kites are in. Finns are out.

That said....calling a Finn "a fat pig", questioning the athleticism and tactical ability of Finn sailors and claiming the Finn racing is "boring as shit" (and claiming that "all the world agrees") puts you in a very special category of sailing critics .......very "special" indeed. As for "Forgive me...." Nah! Fuck off!  ;-)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Couta said:

The argument depends on what you want to achieve...and the Lympix is now predominantly a "sports as entertainment" event....so fast, colourful young and sexy gets the eyeballs that attracts the sponsors that pays for the circus. If it was just a sports event, then the goal is close racing with outcomes determined by tactics and athleticism. What we're seeing at the Lympix is the transition (it's been going for a while, but now is accelerating due to massive drops in viewership and revenues) from a sports event to an entertainment event....which means the most "tactical and athletic" classes (eg Finn) will be dropped for "Fast & Furious" (eg Foiling Kiteboards)....interesting to note that performance also means lack of close finishing....with the nacra fleet spread over nearly 1.5 legs...same with the boards...my bet is that the foiling kites will be even more spread....so high performance wins in the drama of "incidents" but loses in the drama of close fleet racing.

Bottom line is: viewership numbers and harvestable marketing data will increasingly drive lympix event selection. Traditional sailing fails to draw significant eyeballs. The IOC say: "make it marketable or it's dropped". Sailing is under review....make it fast, furious, sexy and easy to understand...or it's out! Foiling Kites are in.

I am probably alone in my thought here... And that's cool.

I don't think wind-surfers and kite-boards, should count as "sailing" classes. I think "sailing" means "yachts".

I don't know a single person who likes watching either, I know plenty who enjoy participating in either, hell, I have certainly done my fair share of both.

Kite boarding and wind surfing should be classed with board sports, ie- Surfing, Wakeboarding, Snowboarding, Skateboarding etc.

All those sports shouldn't be Olympic sports, and should be "X-Games" sports.

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Nah Darth...the lympix is all just a TV/Online show...bread & circuses for the masses....it's the original X-Games....but with some manufactured greek mythology added for effect. We're all supposed to be inspired by multi-millionaire professional sports people flogging athletic products to people who have low self esteem....2 weeks of over-hyped events that distract us from our obesity...while flogging us Macca's and Coke as we sit on the couch. Ironic...Just a bit!:D

 

 

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WTF are they still sailing 470's they are overweight (120kgs) underpowered (Less sail than a Cherub) pieces of shit sailed by two midgets that were designed nearly 60 years ago to be a hire boat for French resorts.

Imagine if they were riding 60 year old bikes in todays Olympics they would be the laughing stock of the cycling world (oh wait)

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42 minutes ago, teamvmg said:

Blimey!   half way though and the Brits are still on for 7 medals!

I'm sure we can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory....

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12 hours ago, darth reapius said:

You realise this is fucking sailing, not athletics right?

I would absolutely propose the most athletic AND skilled boats to sail.

I just think that rolling a fat fucking pig downhill is absolutely un-impressive and the whole fucking world agrees. While watching someone hike their guts out on a boat which planes, or trapping on a cat doing 20+ knots is absolutely impressive.

Like forgive me if I think this is boring as shit to watch.

Consistent Zsombor Berecz leads after opening day at Finn Europeans in  Vilamoura |

I think the Olympics should look like:

Melges 14 US National Championship >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

2015 Moth Worlds – Dirona Around the World

http://www.elwoodsc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/F18s.jpg

49er, 49erFX and Nacra 17 fleets at Ready Steady Tokyo - Day 4

Fareast 28R Sails - Mainsails, Jibs, and Spinnakers | North Sails

Modern low-tech dinghy, Modern high-tech dinghy, Modern low-tech cat, Modern high-tech cat, Modern performance keel-boat.

are you implying that the finn is unathletic? Also the olympics already do look like what you posted, with the exception of the keelboat.

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11 hours ago, Couta said:

 

That said....calling a Finn "a fat pig", questioning the athleticism and tactical ability of Finn sailors and claiming the Finn racing is "boring as shit" (and claiming that "all the world agrees") puts you in a very special category of sailing critics .......very "special" indeed. As for "Forgive me...." Nah! Fuck off!  ;-)

 

 

Really.

Elvstrom, Coutts, Bertrand, Ainsle, Scott, Percy, Kuhweide, Lewis, Hjortnaes, Mateusz K……….decent resumes.

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9 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

WTF are they still sailing 470's they are overweight (120kgs) underpowered (Less sail than a Cherub) pieces of shit sailed by two midgets that were designed nearly 60 years ago to be a hire boat for French resorts.

Imagine if they were riding 60 year old bikes in todays Olympics they would be the laughing stock of the cycling world (oh wait)

I agree with you here. Oddly, the trainer boats that are intended to lead to the 470 are lighter. 

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1 hour ago, blunderfull said:

Really.

Elvstrom, Coutts, Bertrand, Ainsle, Scott, Percy, Kuhweide, Lewis, Hjortnaes, Mateusz K……….decent resumes.

Larry Lemieux won that the prize that he did precisely because the Finn is useful when it's blowing dogs off chains. 

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I'm not the first to observe that sailing is at high risk of being dropped from the Olympics.

As far as the organisers are concerned (The IOC) the Olympics are not about the particiant, they're all about the viewers. The participants are the product being sold.

Sailing is failing because both the boats (except for the 49er's and FX; I can't comment on the board and kite classes) and the format are not viewing worthy.

No one outside the sailing world can comprehend lifts and knocks or broad spectrum tactics, whatever the (usually) usless announcer tries to explain. Tactics at a pile in mark rounding might be an exception. But generally tactical racing makes for bad TV.

So you are left trying to be entertained by someone performing the act of sailing the boat.

And here only the skiff classes do the job.

Get rid of the Laser and Finn and bring in something like a Musto; one for each gender.

Dump the dump truck 470 and maybe bring in a mixed gender skiff.

As for the format, if you want TV viewing, something like we have racing a fleet skiffs on a narrow river is what you need. Boats tacking, gybing and crossing every 60 seconds because the course is set up as a narrow 200 meter wide corridor and only 20 minutes races to keep the fleet bunched. Non stop action and a display of athleticism that viewers can understand. Probably plenty of entertainment too as the activities sucumb to the tight pressure and suffer capsizes and other misfortunes.

A video of our recent regatta gives merely a hint of what you could do; more so if you double the number of boats, add in professional videography and close up or on boat action shots

Right, I'll just go and put the popcorn on.

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Or....accept that our sport doesn't meet the "entertainment" criteria...and walk away from the Lympix circus! I've gone thru this elsewhere in boring detail, but in summary - To continue to pervert the sport to meet someone else's criteria doesn't make sense. Time to thank everyone...move forward...and get back to building the sport.

 

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9 hours ago, crashtack said:

are you implying that the finn is unathletic? Also the olympics already do look like what you posted, with the exception of the keelboat.

No. I am not implying that, it was a reply to another comment about what I would propose, boats which are MODERN not fucking 70 years old and slow as shit AND which are ATHLETIC and take SKILL to sail.

15 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

WTF are they still sailing 470's they are overweight (120kgs) underpowered (Less sail than a Cherub) pieces of shit sailed by two midgets that were designed nearly 60 years ago to be a hire boat for French resorts.

Imagine if they were riding 60 year old bikes in todays Olympics they would be the laughing stock of the cycling world (oh wait)

The sailing of boats like the Finn and 470 are more like if the cycling was done on Penny Farthings.

19 hours ago, Couta said:

That said....calling a Finn "a fat pig", questioning the athleticism and tactical ability of Finn sailors and claiming the Finn racing is "boring as shit" (and claiming that "all the world agrees") puts you in a very special category of sailing critics .......very "special" indeed. As for "Forgive me...." Nah! Fuck off!  ;-)

The Finn is a fat pig, is a 100% factual statement. Finn - 14' long 107 kg. Melges 14 52 kg. Hell the over 50 year old Laser is 58kgs.

I also never questioned the ability of the guys sailing the Finn, I bet all those guys would perform just as well tactically and athletically in boats which weren't aincient pieces of shit.

Anyone sad about that, must be a fucking fossil. This is stupid, like the Optimist, just because you sailed it 70 years ago when you were a kid, DOESN'T MAKE IT A GOOD BOAT NOW.

There is nothing wrong with the players, just the equipment.

3 hours ago, Rambler said:

Sailing is failing because both the boats (except for the 49er's and FX; I can't comment on the board and kite classes) and the format are not viewing worthy.

No one outside the sailing world can comprehend lifts and knocks or broad spectrum tactics, whatever the (usually) usless announcer tries to explain. Tactics at a pile in mark rounding might be an exception. But generally tactical racing makes for bad TV.

So you are left trying to be entertained by someone performing the act of sailing the boat.

And here only the skiff classes do the job.

Get rid of the Laser and Finn and bring in something like a Musto; one for each gender.

Dump the dump truck 470 and maybe bring in a mixed gender skiff.

Yes. fkn yes.

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So the "Fat Pig" attracts some of the world's best sailors (across a range of classes) are both athletic and tactical and still attracts fleets of over 300 boats incorporating all age groups.....yeah...pieces of Shit.....of course that's just your opinion...and as we know, like assholes, everyone has one. But if you're gunna have one, at least have some grain of support for it or you'll end up looking like...an opinionated asshole!

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Onto latest news...great to see the young Aussie first timer win a 3rd spot in this mornings Radial race...unbelievably tight racing that was fantastic to watch if you appreciate great sailing...of course, it was a boring, unintelligible,shitfight if you don't understand sailing....

Next heat about to start...

https://7plus.com.au/live-tv?channel-id=TOK20

 

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Nothing to do with the spats up above but on edge of my seat watching right now.

Team GBR has not missed a medal race since the format was introduced - now that is strength in depth. Currently looking very likely or almost assured of a medal race in 8 classes with just the Lasers on the edge with 1 race to go Alison Young 10th (on equal points with 9th) and Elliot Hansen 12th but within 4 points of the 3 boats ahead of him and 2 races to play with.

It would be amazing if these two young athletes could maintain the GBR record of being in every sailing final.

A success story that, I believe, dates all the way back to Jim Saltonstall's 'ferrets' as he used to call the likes of Ainslie, Percy, Goodison, Robertson & Simpson etc.

I won't comment on USA, the Editor has that well in hand on the front page but perhaps Mr Cayard should get a copy of Jim's excellent book "Race Training".  It is still relevant today - obviously.

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6 hours ago, Rambler said:

I'm not the first to observe that sailing is at high risk of being dropped from the Olympics.

As far as the organisers are concerned (The IOC) the Olympics are not about the particiant, they're all about the viewers. The participants are the product being sold.

Sailing is failing because both the boats (except for the 49er's and FX; I can't comment on the board and kite classes) and the format are not viewing worthy.

No one outside the sailing world can comprehend lifts and knocks or broad spectrum tactics, whatever the (usually) usless announcer tries to explain. Tactics at a pile in mark rounding might be an exception. But generally tactical racing makes for bad TV.

So you are left trying to be entertained by someone performing the act of sailing the boat.

And here only the skiff classes do the job.

Get rid of the Laser and Finn and bring in something like a Musto; one for each gender.

Dump the dump truck 470 and maybe bring in a mixed gender skiff.

As for the format, if you want TV viewing, something like we have racing a fleet skiffs on a narrow river is what you need. Boats tacking, gybing and crossing every 60 seconds because the course is set up as a narrow 200 meter wide corridor and only 20 minutes races to keep the fleet bunched. Non stop action and a display of athleticism that viewers can understand. Probably plenty of entertainment too as the activities sucumb to the tight pressure and suffer capsizes and other misfortunes.

A video of our recent regatta gives merely a hint of what you could do; more so if you double the number of boats, add in professional videography and close up or on boat action shots

Right, I'll just go and put the popcorn on.

At what point does an OCS (jumps start) become a penalty turn instead of a return and start properly? Whatever happened to RRS 29.1? Local rules?

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36 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

At what point does an OCS (jumps start) become a penalty turn instead of a return and start properly? Whatever happened to RRS 29.1? Local rules?

I suppose the difficult question becomes how much of a jump start for a mere turn?

Half way up the first work?

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If all this streaming has shown anything, it's that sailing at the Olympics has remarkable amount of racing.  The commentators were saying the time limit for a Radial race is 75 minutes. But there are 12 races so one could have a monstrous driftathon with a cumulative time of 15 hours of racing in one class. And there are ten boat classes so the Olympic has perhaps 75 hours of racing, which would be comparable to the total time of all the men's and women's soccer games. It's not like running these races is necessarily expensive but because the TV coverage skips between classes, it's confusing for lay people and you can't follow one class properly. That, plus the observation that the slower boats invite all the dubious pumping and sculling, really suggests cutting the numbers of classes to maybe a mixed skiff, the mixed Nacra and kites, would make the sport more current and easier to follow.  I strongly argue that if sailing was dropped it would be bad for the sport for various administrative and marketing reasons, and if it was under threat, and I don't it's actually clear that that's the case, substantially simplifying it might just be a route to sustainability. 

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6 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

At what point does an OCS (jumps start) become a penalty turn instead of a return and start properly? Whatever happened to RRS 29.1? Local rules?

Sorry just understood your question.

Whatever it looked like or the wording said, it was a cse of circling the bouy and starting again.

The naration was insterted by the drone operator who is not a sailor.

 

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7 hours ago, Fintho said:

Overall leader in the Laser Radials has been DQ'ed from race 10! Little bit of excitement in boring conditions

And at least according to dock talks of Finnish team she would have had right to compete in that start. I don't know, whole thing was little unclear for me. Where did she even get penalty for?

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4 minutes ago, Pertsa said:

And at least according to dock talks of Finnish team she would have had right to compete in that start. I don't know, whole thing was little unclear for me. Where did she even get penalty for?

Sums up sailing nowadays “I did not get to talk to my coach”

FFS

There was a general and she did not know she could start the next race as penalty slides away.

She started then pulled out.

and she is leading the fleet

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9 hours ago, Rambler said:

I suppose the difficult question becomes how much of a jump start for a mere turn?

Half way up the first work?

It isn't in the rule book, has to be local or even club rules. If he was OCS there should have been a second sound signal and he should have returned and started correctly. Rule 86.1 does allow RRS 29.1 to be changed. SailGP also has a changed OCS rule

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16 hours ago, Rambler said:

I'm not the first to observe that sailing is at high risk of being dropped from the Olympics.

As far as the organisers are concerned (The IOC) the Olympics are not about the particiant, they're all about the viewers. The participants are the product being sold.

Sailing is failing because both the boats (except for the 49er's and FX; I can't comment on the board and kite classes) and the format are not viewing worthy.

No one outside the sailing world can comprehend lifts and knocks or broad spectrum tactics, whatever the (usually) usless announcer tries to explain. Tactics at a pile in mark rounding might be an exception. But generally tactical racing makes for bad TV.

So you are left trying to be entertained by someone performing the act of sailing the boat.

And here only the skiff classes do the job.

Get rid of the Laser and Finn and bring in something like a Musto; one for each gender.

Dump the dump truck 470 and maybe bring in a mixed gender skiff.

As for the format, if you want TV viewing, something like we have racing a fleet skiffs on a narrow river is what you need. Boats tacking, gybing and crossing every 60 seconds because the course is set up as a narrow 200 meter wide corridor and only 20 minutes races to keep the fleet bunched. Non stop action and a display of athleticism that viewers can understand. Probably plenty of entertainment too as the activities sucumb to the tight pressure and suffer capsizes and other misfortunes.

A video of our recent regatta gives merely a hint of what you could do; more so if you double the number of boats, add in professional videography and close up or on boat action shots

Right, I'll just go and put the popcorn on.

Paradoxically, many other sports have rulrs just as confusing as "lifts and onocks" (ehich is not at allconfising). Baseball for instance.

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10 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Nothing to do with the spats up above but on edge of my seat watching right now.

Team GBR has not missed a medal race since the format was introduced - now that is strength in depth. Currently looking very likely or almost assured of a medal race in 8 classes with just the Lasers on the edge with 1 race to go Alison Young 10th (on equal points with 9th) and Elliot Hansen 12th but within 4 points of the 3 boats ahead of him and 2 races to play with.

It would be amazing if these two young athletes could maintain the GBR record of being in every sailing final.

A success story that, I believe, dates all the way back to Jim Saltonstall's 'ferrets' as he used to call the likes of Ainslie, Percy, Goodison, Robertson & Simpson etc.

I won't comment on USA, the Editor has that well in hand on the front page but perhaps Mr Cayard should get a copy of Jim's excellent book "Race Training".  It is still relevant today - obviously.

Silly bugger, Elliot got what I assume is a 2nd Rule 42 penalty - 1st one in race 5 got him 2 turs but the rules are 2nd one in a regatta = a race DSQ - at least that is what I assume it was for

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Talking about "is it interesting to watch from TV"

Surfing certainly isn't. I am sure that it is great when you are sitting on beach watching your friends to do it, but it does not work as TV sport. I watched 30 minutes of competitors swimming against waves for 30 minutes.

Compared to that sailing is full of action.

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43 minutes ago, Pertsa said:

Talking about "is it interesting to watch from TV"

Surfing certainly isn't. I am sure that it is great when you are sitting on beach watching your friends to do it, but it does not work as TV sport. I watched 30 minutes of competitors swimming against waves for 30 minutes.

Compared to that sailing is full of action.

I have found the high wind races fun to watch.  I hate sailing in light air but find the light air races interesting, although not as much as the heavy air races.  Regarding surfing:  I am an avid surfer and enjoy watching the WSL contests, but, I always watch the "condensed replays" because they show only the rides, not the sitting around waiting for waves.  If no condensed replay is available then I hit the skip ahead button constantly.  So, I seldom watch live surfing. The reality of surfing is that one sits around for 2 - 3 minutes to catch and ride a wave for 5 - 10 seconds.  Fortunately, the thrill of that ride usually makes the wait worthwhile.

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It was also unfortunately the case that the post typhoon waves were poorly formed,  low period, i.e. breaking close together, and seemed to mostly close-out quickly. So it was not a great demonstration of competitive surfing although the top people did really show why are so great to get rides at all in those conditions. The Igarashi-Medina semi-final was particularly impressive as they were able to do some spectacular aerials off of waves that were otherwise pretty unpleasant.   

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14 hours ago, Livia said:

Sums up sailing nowadays “I did not get to talk to my coach”

FFS

There was a general and she did not know she could start the next race as penalty slides away.

She started then pulled out.

and she is leading the fleet

The fleet was already in sequence....so her coach didn't respond because to do so would have DSQ'd her for outside assistance....Not understanding the rules at this level is almost unbelievable...and as you point out Livia, it highlights the increased dependency coached sailors now have. In reviewing this, I wonder how many coaches will recognise the weakness dependency represents for their charges and what they'd do about it? I'd also question the strategic input...to take on NED aggressively was completely unnecessary....and NOT a strategy a coach would recommend at this point in the regatta with such a commanding points lead. Interesting stuff.

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At this level I would have thought that athletes almost slept with their Rule Book along with the NoR & SI's. It is he competitor's responsibility to know what they can and cannot do. Mark you I see this at all levels. I received a Wechat the other day from a sailor asking about an element of the racing rules which he could have found out by reading the bloody rule book. Laziness?

Could you imagine a high level chess player having to be reminded how they could move the knight? 

If a coach has not completed his duty by the time the sailors leave the dock he is lacking in his ability to pass on his knowledge and experience.

It also seriously disadvantages the competitors with a lower budget or part of a bigger team.

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Looks like just enough puff today - racing delayed and now only 7-8 kts on the course which will suit the same sailors who liked in on day 1

Female Skiffs, Finn & Nacra currently racing. Looks like wind may also be shifty as the Nacra race was showing as "Interrupted" I am guess abandoned due to a windshift - but as I say, just a guess

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16 hours ago, Livia said:

Sums up sailing nowadays “I did not get to talk to my coach”

FFS

There was a general and she did not know she could start the next race as penalty slides away.

She started then pulled out.

and she is leading the fleet

To be fair neither of the commentators on 7Plus knew the rules either. They suspected that she'd be hit with a gross misconduct violation for starting after the General.

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14 minutes ago, Couta said:

Watching the board medal race is painful....just an exercise in "air-rowing"......for a Lympix medal....FFS...

Always been air rowing in my eyes. I think it was former ISAF President, Paul Henderson first coined the expression. It is what it is sadly

Big turnaround. Chinese overnight leader currently in 3rd with FRA (Gold in Rio) currently in lead with GBR in between them  on equal points with race leader - go Emma!

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