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@Coutado you mean the last mark rounding? I was going to go screen capture it from CBC but will do it tomorrow as it's still live as they're waiting for the medal ceremony. It was a shame Douglas got shuffled way back as she ended up dropping from 4th to 6th in the overall. 

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2 hours ago, random. said:

Missed the race, bugger.

But I am disappointed in the number of infringements that have gone on with no penalties.

Umpired events contribute to the "if no one called it, it didn't happen."

You miss the point. An umpire can only respond to an "Ask". They are not referees. If you have a gripe about infringements not being punished it should be directed at the athletes not shouting "protest". They are under 6m so no flag is usually required> I haven't read the Olympic SI's so I don't now if this has been changed.

Only then can the umpire/on the water judge make a call. The exceptions to this are Rule 42 & 31 infringements and also any specific umpire instigated penalties noted in the SIs.

It also needs to be remembered that the umpires are not watching the telly, they are on the course and outnumbered by the competitors. If there was a mark touch they are generally very short lived and if the umpire is watching another boat on boat situation it is easy for them to not see a 31 infringement. Try it sometime.

Blimey, soccer referees sometimes miss an incident and they only have one ball and a couple of players to watch at any one time AND they are not bouncing around on a RIB and maybe even driving it.

Take a look at https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/AddendumQ08March2021-[27122].pdf  Point Q4 you will see the umpire is pretty limited as to what they can flag for.

Addendum Q is in the Olympic SIs by the way

As always I am open to correction if I have got it wrong

 

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Incident took place at the first leeward rounding...when a call was made against CAN for no room....during that distraction behind, it looked like a contact was made with the mark. It was shown in the replay of the CAN call....and the gunwhale appears to brush the mark...anyway... as they say, "if a tree falls in the forest...." Hmmm....

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36 minutes ago, Couta said:

Incident took place at the first leeward rounding...when a call was made against CAN for no room....during that distraction behind, it looked like a contact was made with the mark. It was shown in the replay of the CAN call....and the gunwhale appears to brush the mark...anyway... as they say, "if a tree falls in the forest...." Hmmm....

The key word in what you say is "appears".  A basic principle of umpiring is what is known as the "last known point of certainty", so if you don't see the actual touch (if there is one) you cannot rule. 

The other thing to remember is perspective, especially important if the video lens has any zoom on it at all as it shrinks the apparent distance between two objects and also the camera angle. Unless you can see directly down the gap (or lack of a gap) between a boat and a mark again you cannot tell for certain if there was contact.

Umpiring is not as simple a task as some people think and after a day on the water you come ashore as knackered as the sailors.

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33 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

The key word in what you say is "appears".  A basic principle of umpiring is what is known as the "last known point of certainty", so if you don't see the actual touch (if there is one) you cannot rule. 

The other thing to remember is perspective, especially important if the video lens has any zoom on it at all as it shrinks the apparent distance between two objects and also the camera angle. Unless you can see directly down the gap (or lack of a gap) between a boat and a mark again you cannot tell for certain if there was contact.

Umpiring is not as simple a task as some people think and after a day on the water you come ashore as knackered as the sailors.

Yeah....I've done the umpiring...and the protest committee chairs...but here's the underlying principal...we're a self governed sport that relies on the athlete self reporting and doing "the right thing"......and to be clear, I'm responding to your comment regarding umpiring, not claiming that the athlete has cheated...but IF she knowingly hit the mark...that is the charge...regardless of what the umpire witnessed.

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

Yeah....I've done the umpiring...and the protest committee chairs...but here's the underlying principal...we're a self governed sport that relies on the athlete self reporting and doing "the right thing"......and to be clear, I'm responding to your comment regarding umpiring, not claiming that the athlete has cheated...but IF she knowingly hit the mark...that is the charge...regardless of what the umpire witnessed.

100% Agree Couta. The Basic Principles of the RRS under the heading "Sportsmanship & The Rules clearly states "when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire".  The appropriate penalty under RRS 31 is one turn including one tack & one gybe (44.1) 

I haven't seen the video so cannot comment whether it is likely she knew or otherwise.

If she knew she hit the mark and thought she could get away with it then it goes beyond RRS 31 and quickly heads to RRS 2 and potentially further but that would be a hell of a charge to bring to the table. I like to think good of people and would hope she didn't know she had kissed the mark.

We had an incident, I was in a boat with a 3 x AC Umpire and on a couple of occasions we saw one more experienced team 'bullying" their way in at a mark on a much less experienced boat but no flag so could do nothing.

In the penultimate or last race of the regatta (can't quite remember which) on the start line they were going to be OCS so they bore down on a boat to leeward and there was contact. V. Light winds so we trickled through the fleet until we were a couple of boat beams from them almost alongside and through a translator asked them if they knew they had broken a rule on the start line. They rather smugly answered yes as if to say fuck all you can do about it. My colleague, rather cleverly then informed them that as they KNEW and ADMITTED THEYKNEW they broke a rule, if they didn't do their penalty turns we would protest them under RRS 2. It (rightly) cost them the regatta (3rd instead of 1st) and a chunk of prize money. Not happy chappies.

Of course having had the yes from them, we could have just trickled away and protested them at the end of the race and they would have recorded a DNE which would have really screwed their pooch.

Perhaps not by the book but all we did was ask them a question.

Strange thing is they pay us a lot more respect these days as they realise we are not perhaps the pussies some of the officials they deal with are.

No such thing as a little cheat in my book.

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3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Strange thing is they pay us a lot more respect these days as they realise we are not perhaps the pussies some of the officials they deal with are.

Lucky you, SS.

I've seen cases when "they" will go after you using their coaches and all possible connections they have at MNA and OAs to make sure that the next time all they have to deal with are pussies. (In fact, I have that t-shirt myself ;). ) It all depends on countries and level of events, I presume.

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3 hours ago, ojfd said:

Lucky you, SS.

I've seen cases when "they" will go after you using their coaches and all possible connections they have at MNA and OAs to make sure that the next time all they have to deal with are pussies. (In fact, I have that t-shirt myself ;). ) It all depends on countries and level of events, I presume.

No, it depends on the character of the individual, whether sailor or coach.

If they have clearly broken a rule, and remember if the role is being performed correctly both umpires in the boat have to agree a rule has been broken. If they disagree the only option is to 'green' the incident.

 

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Just following the coverage I saw numerous "incidents"...laser appeared (!) to touch the top mark without doing a 360.....GER Nacra made clear contact in pre-start of last race....no penalty taken...seemed to me that commentators were reluctant to mention anything controversial...anyway...that's just my observation!

 

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3 hours ago, Couta said:

Just following the coverage I saw numerous "incidents"...laser appeared (!) to touch the top mark without doing a 360.....GER Nacra made clear contact in pre-start of last race....no penalty taken...seemed to me that commentators were reluctant to mention anything controversial...anyway...that's just my observation!

 

Just went and checked the Tracker on the GER Nacra 15 - looks like they did to a 360 straight after that pre start bump ...

Agree there looked to be a few laser mark "touches" ...

 

AD2D4A8E-1BEA-4B1C-A20E-D6A3F2291471_1_105_c.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Stanno said:

Just went and checked the Tracker on the GER Nacra 15 - looks like they did to a 360 straight after that pre start bump ...

Agree there looked to be a few laser mark "touches" ...

 

AD2D4A8E-1BEA-4B1C-A20E-D6A3F2291471_1_105_c.jpeg

Like I said earlier, if you didn't see the incident you cannot make a call. Couta didn't see the turn (not a criticism by the way, just an observation) and therefore called no penalty taken - as he saw it. When umpiring sometimes your head needs to be on a swivel while ALSO watching where YOU are going if you are driving.

I have not seen any of the video as not had the time to track down links so cannot make any detailed observations on calls. One thing I would say though is one needs to remember the umpires are in RIBs with their line of sight only 1m - 1.5m above the water. It is therefore unreasonable to expect them to see over anyone to see what is happening on the other side.

Using the wrong information can be dangerous. I remember a case where a boat was given redress they weren't entitled to. They had done a penalty turn at the instruction of an on the water judge and it was later claimed the judge was wrong and redress of 5 points was given (just enough to overtake the legitimate 3rd place boat) even though the SIs stated "The judge's decision is final". The redress elevated the team to 3rd and the prize of a Far East 23R sport sport boat (nice prize). When pressed the organisers provided the tracker file to prove a penalty WAS taken forgetting the file also continuously labelled the boat's position AND place on the race course. Sad thing was the team went into the penalty in 8th and came out of the penalty in 8th. so the boats "place in the race WAS NOT made significantly worse". 

Still the race management would not amend their position. Incompetence or corruption (cheating)? You decide.

PS I wasn't the judge being questioned.

Worst piece of race management I have ever seen.

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Stanno & SS - I did check the tracker before posting my comment and did see the 360 by GER.....so please correct me...is a 360 performed before the start the correct penalty for a contact between boats in the starting sequence? Is the 360 the appropriate penalty for the Nacra in the SI's...(I'm assuming but I don't generally race cats)..but always happy to learn!

 

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3 hours ago, Couta said:

Stanno & SS - I did check the tracker before posting my comment and did see the 360 by GER.....so please correct me...is a 360 performed before the start the correct penalty for a contact between boats in the starting sequence? Is the 360 the appropriate penalty for the Nacra in the SI's...(I'm assuming but I don't generally race cats)..but always happy to learn!

 

Heya Couta

SI's  1.2 For the Men's Skiff, Women’s Skiff and Mixed Multihull Events, RRS 44.1 and RRS P2.1 are
changed so that the Two-Turns Penalty is replaced by the One-Turn Penalty.

As the incident occurred within the 4 mins before the start I'm pretty sure its the right penalty to take at that time ... but I'm no rule expert!!

Happy to be guided by those more experienced ...

I know my Nacra 15 kid was watching the tracker like mad as we watched the race on the telly and he seemed relaxed about it, not that that is any binding precedent!! ;-)

Cheers

Stanno

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2 hours ago, Stanno said:

Heya Couta

SI's  1.2 For the Men's Skiff, Women’s Skiff and Mixed Multihull Events, RRS 44.1 and RRS P2.1 are
changed so that the Two-Turns Penalty is replaced by the One-Turn Penalty.

As the incident occurred within the 4 mins before the start I'm pretty sure its the right penalty to take at that time ... but I'm no rule expert!!

Happy to be guided by those more experienced ...

I know my Nacra 15 kid was watching the tracker like mad as we watched the race on the telly and he seemed relaxed about it, not that that is any binding precedent!! ;-)

Cheers

Stanno

Yep, often in regattas the 2 turns is dropped to a 1 turn if written in the SIs. Often used for higher performance boats where the 2nd turn sends them so downspeed it crucifies them.

the 4 minutes is the 'Preparatory Signal' and boats are racing from then on with all the rules in force. As the rules state ( I paraphrase) having got clear of other boats a penalty should be taken as soon as possible - GER appears to have done exactly that. 

Before anyone chips in with it shouldn't be taken before the start, well that is the case in Match Racing (C7.3 (B & C) but not fleet racing.

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5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Yep, often in regattas the 2 turns is dropped to a 1 turn if written in the SIs. Often used for higher performance boats where the 2nd turn sends them so downspeed it crucifies them.

the 4 minutes is the 'Preparatory Signal' and boats are racing from then on with all the rules in force. As the rules state ( I paraphrase) having got clear of other boats a penalty should be taken as soon as possible - GER appears to have done exactly that. 

Before anyone chips in with it shouldn't be taken before the start, well that is the case in Match Racing (C7.3 (B & C) but not fleet racing.

Correct. Really getting tired of hearing gary jobless saying otherwise. 

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Video stills from Rindom's mark rounding at the end of leg 2. She's extremely close to the mark but it's not definitive. The mark doesn't move in any way suggesting she hit the mark, so it would have been a graze at best.   

Mark Rounding 3.jpg

Mark Rounding 2.jpg

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7 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Video stills from Rindom's mark rounding at the end of leg 2. She's extremely close to the mark but it's not definitive. The mark doesn't move in any way suggesting she hit the mark, so it would have been a graze at best.   

Mark Rounding 3.jpg

Mark Rounding 2.jpg

Difficult to tell, but from where the mark compared to her eyeline she would know if she did. No outside boat pushing on so no exoneration is she did hit it. A graze is still contact.

Looking at the first photo & where the umpire boat is they cannot see the gap/no gap so impossible to make the call. It would also be easy to say the umpires were out of position but one must remember they have to keep out of the way of the boats and if they were more to the left they would be very close to the course taken by competitors after rounding - just sayin'.

Cannot be everywhere.

WS Highlights on youtube is a waste of time, just  a series of stills On youtube? for goodness sake

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Good race and some interesting strategies at play from NZ....nothing "conservative" about it....and not aggressive towards GBR..."its just another race" seemed to be the strategy from NZ

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On 7/28/2021 at 9:34 AM, random. said:

My LIST OF CLASSES THAT CAN GET FUCKED!

1. any class that allows pumping.

So that rules out most of the Olympic Classes don't it.

Really enjoyed the N17's.  The mixed gender thing is good.

I have enjoyed the mixed gender thing across the Olympics with the exception of the weightlifting which is technical. Brings out some real tactical ploys.

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On 7/29/2021 at 4:32 AM, darth reapius said:

You realise this is fucking sailing, not athletics right?

I would absolutely propose the most athletic AND skilled boats to sail.

I just think that rolling a fat fucking pig downhill is absolutely un-impressive and the whole fucking world agrees. While watching someone hike their guts out on a boat which planes, or trapping on a cat doing 20+ knots is absolutely impressive.

Like forgive me if I think this is boring as shit to watch.

Consistent Zsombor Berecz leads after opening day at Finn Europeans in  Vilamoura |

I think the Olympics should look like:

Melges 14 US National Championship >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

2015 Moth Worlds – Dirona Around the World

http://www.elwoodsc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/F18s.jpg

49er, 49erFX and Nacra 17 fleets at Ready Steady Tokyo - Day 4

Fareast 28R Sails - Mainsails, Jibs, and Spinnakers | North Sails

Modern low-tech dinghy, Modern high-tech dinghy, Modern low-tech cat, Modern high-tech cat, Modern performance keel-boat.

I find it interesting if my team wins and crap when they dont. So I agree with you most of the time.

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What a day for Team GBR, 2 Golds and a Silver with the Women's 470 sailing themselves into an almost unassailable position going into tomorrow's medal race

 

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23 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

What a day for Team GBR, 2 Golds and a Silver with the Women's 470 sailing themselves into an almost unassailable position going into tomorrow's medal race

 

GBR Women are  mathematically sure of a medal.  The medal race always has an element of the unpredictable.  To be sure of Gold , they need to finish 7th or better.......or no worse than 6 places behind the French.  If they match race France into last place then they would win Gold (Ben Ainslie in 2012!) but I think the safer strategy is just to finish in the top 7 with low risk mid fleet strategy and a loose cover on France. 

In their worst race (Race 9), the GBR women would have placed 7 if it was the medal race.

 

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

What a day for Team GBR, 2 Golds and a Silver with the Women's 470 sailing themselves into an almost unassailable position going into tomorrow's medal race

 

And finally the BBC has woken up and shown some sailing! I was watching the races through my fingers though...

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5 hours ago, The Main Man said:

And finally the BBC has woken up and shown some sailing! I was watching the races through my fingers though...

Hannah Mills and company should be less stressful as they have a healthy lead.  But don't forget to watch women's skateboard park where GB has 13 year old super star Sky Brown and the outstandingly named Bombette Martin. 

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9 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

GBR Women are  mathematically sure of a medal.  The medal race always has an element of the unpredictable.  To be sure of Gold , they need to finish 7th or better.......or no worse than 6 places behind the French.  If they match race France into last place then they would win Gold (Ben Ainslie in 2012!) but I think the safer strategy is just to finish in the top 7 with low risk mid fleet strategy and a loose cover on France. 

In their worst race (Race 9), the GBR women would have placed 7 if it was the medal race.

 

The best strategy is just sail like they have all regatta

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8 hours ago, The Main Man said:

And finally the BBC has woken up and shown some sailing! I was watching the races through my fingers though...

About bloody time - our most successful Olympic sport.

In 4 editions of the Medal Race format GBR has only missed 1 Medal Race - that's 40 races, 39 of which have had a boat with a Union Jack competing in it. Can you imagine the fuss the British Media would make if every single GBR Tack & Field athlete made the final? With sailing we are lucky to get a mention in the Sports Pages. That's how relevant Olympic Sailing is to the UK Media - bloody morons.

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I'm on a Discord call with my son's high school age friends (wonderful kids, especially if you like snark). We're watching the sailing stream on our respective computers and they are laughing hysterically at the pelvic thrusting the crews are doing upwind in the men's 470. @random.is right to find it less than ideal for sailing's public image and general watchability. 

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31 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

I'm on a Discord call with my son's high school age friends (wonderful kids, especially if you like snark). We're watching the sailing stream on our respective computers and they are laughing hysterically at the pelvic thrusting the crews are doing upwind in the men's 470. @random.is right to find it less than ideal for sailing's public image and general watchability. 

It will be mixed gender crews next time.  We will get to see women pelvic thrusting!

I hope they see how re-dick-u-lus it is and change the rules.

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We don't even have to wait for next time.  The 470 women were putting on an absolute pelvic thrust clinic on the first upwind leg. My son's (non sailing) friend just observed, "if I saw this and then [my son] invited me to go sailing, I would assume I'd have to go out and do pelvic thrusts because that's what you do in sailing". 

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Just saw the womens.

Shame they have to prostitute themselves like that.

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7 minutes ago, random. said:

Just saw the womens.

Shame they have to prostitute themselves like that.

I completely agree - it should be banned. It is the only class/event I know where this happens and has nothing to do with 99.999% of dinghy sailing.

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4 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Correct me if I am wrong but does Hannah Mills' 2 Golds and a Silver make her the most decorated female sailor of all time?

That's what the commentator said.

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1 minute ago, random. said:

That's what the commentator said.

Thanks Random - can't get a video feed here in China to I was just trying to wrack my brains to figure it out and I knew an Anarchist might be able to help me out

I bet I will still be hard pressed to find any mention of that little fact in the UK media - 

Cheers

SS

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1 minute ago, The Main Man said:

There’s a protest been lodged! Don’t know who by but the French were talking to a jury boat after so may have been them.

Interesting. The Medal Race is fully umpired and I would imagine that they would have seen most things. Danger with a protest is that if you lose you could lose big.

They have the bronze but if the protest is heard and it transpires that FRA was at fault they could get a DSQ which would put them out of the medals.

If it were me I would think the 'bird in the hand' concept might be worth a thought.

SS

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Sadly, The kiwis lack of depth has been exposed.

 

The current group are not competitive anymore and the poms/ euros have their measure except maybe burling / Tuke.

There is no depth beyond this current lot and the next Olympics will see a failure to get any medals if the current management of NZ sailing does not change 

"Grow the grass roots and the top of the tree will bloom"....   But in NZ they feed the top while the clubs and fleets die

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From World Sailing:

What was meant to be a straightforward gold medal celebration for Hannah Mills and Eilidh McIntyre (GBR) has had to be delayed until a protest has been heard and resolved onshore. France’s Camille Lecointre and Aloise Retornaz are protesting Great Britain for alleged team racing after a close tussle between the leading three contenders for the medals: Great Britain, France and Poland.

Linda Fahrni and Maja Siegenthaler (SUI) won the Medal Race, taking fourth overall. Meanwhile Great Britain who had been second behind the Swiss, were overtaken on the final run by Germany, Israel and Poland. This put Poland back on equal points with France, giving silver to Poland and bronze to France.

However, immediately after the race the jury was informed that France was protesting Great Britain. The protest is to be heard ashore.
 

Pretty ridiculous protest in my view. Why would GB purposely put themselves in more danger? GER took them up high and they had no choice but to take the stern of POL at the mark.

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Just now, NZL32 said:

"Grow the grass roots and the top of the tree will bloom"....   But in NZ they feed the top while the clubs and fleets die

Same here in Australia $40 mill spent and 2 medals

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Protest has been dismissed.

It would have been under Rule 2. Read case 78 of the case book for precedent. 

 https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/CaseBookfor20212024withVersion2chgcorctns-[27418].pdf 

Quote

In a fleet race either for one-design boats or for boats racing under a handicap or rating system, a boat may use tactics that clearly interfere with and hinder another boat’s progress in the race, provided that, if she is protested under rule 2 for doing so, the protest committee finds that there was a reasonable chance of her tactics benefiting her final ranking in the event. However, she breaks rule 2, and possibly rule 69.1(a), if while using those tactics she intentionally breaks a rule. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Protest is for team racing / match racing. 

Be interesting who they think is the 'Team' and far as Match Racing is concerned there is nothing in the rule book that says you cannot concentrate on one other boat if your overall position is threatened, just Ask Scheidt and Ainslie in either Savannah. 

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2 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Be interesting who they think is the 'Team' and far as Match Racing is concerned there is nothing in the rule book that says you cannot concentrate on one other boat if your overall position is threatened, just Ask Scheidt and Ainslie in either Savannah. 

I think the French point of view would have been once it was clear that the French weren't going to win the medal race, and GBR weren't going to finish worse than 7th, then the continued hindrance of FRA served no purpose to improve GBRs final ranking in the event and in fact just let POL through to silver. 

However, it's a bit of a tough call that one. Because whilst GBR match racing was fairly aggressive I would say there was always an outside chance that FRA could come through so keeping a dominant cover s justified. 

Anyways, protest dismissed. 

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I was just wondering how many families have two generations of Olympic Sailing Gold Medalists? 

Eilidh's dad, Mike won Gold in Seoul in the Star Class

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4 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

How many have two golds each - The Grael's

I wonder what they talk about at dinner

Good point, I'd forgotten about Torben Grael.

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2 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I think the French point of view would have been once it was clear that the French weren't going to win the medal race, and GBR weren't going to finish worse than 7th, then the continued hindrance of FRA served no purpose to improve GBRs final ranking in the event and in fact just let POL through to silver. 

However, it's a bit of a tough call that one. Because whilst GBR match racing was fairly aggressive I would say there was always an outside chance that FRA could come through so keeping a dominant cover s justified. 

Anyways, protest dismissed. 

Sour grapes by the French.

A spurious protest is not the way to try and win a medal.

It was clear that for GBR to lose the Gold medal they would have to finish in the last 3 with a race win to the French. By the 1st mark with them (FRA)  lying back in 6th just ahead of Poland they should have secured their Silver and Match Raced (quite permissable) the Poles to keep them behind. That they failed to do and the Poles got through. The fact that it was the British boat between them and the Poles is immaterial, it could have been any boat.

Their tactics were flawed - the Gold was never going to be theirs after the first mark and they should have banked their Silver. They were out-sailed by Poland.

In many ways Poland deserved the Silver as in the 10 full fleet races they only finished behind the French once apart from their nightmare performance on the last day which makes their comeback all the more remarkable.

Just my opinion.

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13 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Could be a bit frosty on the podium

On the podium it was "friendly" and according to protocol. But when they left podium, British went straight past French girls and away from those celebrating. Quite a contrast to what we saw on 470er mens podium.

Here's the excerpt from official press conference. Responses are professional and diplomatic ;)

and a couple of others

 

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10 hours ago, dogwatch said:

It'll be fine. Women never bear a grudge.

Please tell me on what planet, I'll start saving for the ticket.

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Men’s high performance skiff

women's high performance skiff

j 70. 2 men 2 women (include non w/l) and maybe after qualification rounds goes to match racing?

laser men

laser radial women

mixed multihull 

Men’s and women’s boards/ kitesurfing. Wherever the wind is blowing that year. 
 

damn I just fixed the olympics. 

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39 minutes ago, Afrayedknot said:

Men’s high performance skiff

women's high performance skiff

j 70. 2 men 2 women (include non w/l) and maybe after qualification rounds goes to match racing?

laser men

laser radial women

mixed multihull 

Men’s and women’s boards/ kitesurfing. Wherever the wind is blowing that year. 
 

damn I just fixed the olympics. 

You forgot no coaches or coach boats within 50 nautical miles of race course

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On 8/4/2021 at 5:10 AM, shanghaisailor said:

I was just wondering how many families have two generations of Olympic Sailing Gold Medalists? 

Eilidh's dad, Mike won Gold in Seoul in the Star Class

1984, USA team, father-son

Bill Buchan, Star Gold

Carl Buchan, FD Gold

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From the report on the Front Page today with the USA results, you do know what US Sailing will say don't you?  We need more money for better results. As they have been saying since the results started going downhill.

And they have been successful at getting more money for each quad.

One must study where the money goes though. It goes to building a much larger bureaucracy at US Sailing. More managers, more coaches, etc. Ask the sailors how much they get from US Sailing to pay travel, housing, meals, entry fees, shipping costs.  It ain't much.

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15 hours ago, Afrayedknot said:

Men’s high performance skiff

women's high performance skiff

j 70. 2 men 2 women (include non w/l) and maybe after qualification rounds goes to match racing?

laser men

laser radial women

mixed multihull 

Men’s and women’s boards/ kitesurfing. Wherever the wind is blowing that year. 
 

damn I just fixed the olympics. 

IOC will never go for J70.  Too much money. Too few countries. Too slow. not exciting. Shame because keelboats would allow some of the greats to still be racing.

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3 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

From the report on the Front Page today with the USA results, you do know what US Sailing will say don't you?  We need more money for better results. As they have been saying since the results started going downhill.

And they have been successful at getting more money for each quad.

One must study where the money goes though. It goes to building a much larger bureaucracy at US Sailing. More managers, more coaches, etc. Ask the sailors how much they get from US Sailing to pay travel, housing, meals, entry fees, shipping costs.  It ain't much.

You mean the Australian Sailing model.

Average wage in the organisation nearly more than twice the average weekly wage for the country.

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On 8/4/2021 at 2:10 AM, shanghaisailor said:

I was just wondering how many families have two generations of Olympic Sailing Gold Medalists? 

Eilidh's dad, Mike won Gold in Seoul in the Star Class

Bill and Carl Buchan won gold in the same Olympics.  Star and FD

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On 8/4/2021 at 12:47 AM, NZL32 said:

Sadly, The kiwis lack of depth has been exposed.

 

The current group are not competitive anymore and the poms/ euros have their measure except maybe burling / Tuke.

There is no depth beyond this current lot and the next Olympics will see a failure to get any medals if the current management of NZ sailing does not change 

"Grow the grass roots and the top of the tree will bloom"....   But in NZ they feed the top while the clubs and fleets die

They must be ready for the US Sailing model then.  Are the salaries for the administrators high enough?  Does the big cheese at the top have a thing for blowing up lime green spinnakers?

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5 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

From the report on the Front Page today with the USA results, you do know what US Sailing will say don't you?  We need more money for better results. As they have been saying since the results started going downhill.

And they have been successful at getting more money for each quad.

One must study where the money goes though. It goes to building a much larger bureaucracy at US Sailing. More managers, more coaches, etc. Ask the sailors how much they get from US Sailing to pay travel, housing, meals, entry fees, shipping costs.  It ain't much.

Well maybe there's part of the answer. too many noses in the trough. I don't know? You are right though, no point increasing the budget if it doesn't get to the right people nd/or doesn't have a positive outcome

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7 hours ago, IPLore said:

IOC will never go for J70.  Too much money. Too few countries. Too slow. not exciting. Shame because keelboats would allow some of the greats to still be racing.

Fine make it BYO. Must be cheaper than an 8 man rower or a 4 man bobsled. Too slow? Maybe... but I think if you do a multi faceted event. Some fleet racing, some point to point and then end with match racing could be electric. I don’t need to hear Jobo telling me how quick boats are going compared to the speed of the wind. In my opinion the swimmers and marathoners don’t look to be going that quick. I think that my format would be inclusive and close racing that depending on how it was managed/ announced would be a great viewing experience. 

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They used to have that format for Solings but for some reason they dropped it.  Females had straight match racing but that got dropped too.  The J70 is not widely sailed in other countries so no chance.

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Cayard’s apology letter complimented the US’s Teams “Professionalism”…..

money and professionalism will kill sailing.

 

“He said a proper 470 campaign now would cost $250,000 a year.

Cayard wants to build a proper training base in Long Beach, the venue for the 2028 LA Games. And he said it will cost $75 million to $80 million to get where he wants to be in 2028. By comparison, the New York Yacht Club’s American Magic spent an estimated $150 million on the most recent America’s Cup and was the first challenger to be eliminated, without having won a race.”

 

 

 

 

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On 8/5/2021 at 8:02 PM, sunseeker said:

1984, USA team, father-son

Bill Buchan, Star Gold

Carl Buchan, FD Gold

The Great Dane, Paul Elvstrom, Finn Golds, sailed a Tornado with his daughter Trine.

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6 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Remember the 2012 Irish Laser commentary video? Now we have the Tokyo 2020 pelvic thrust meme.  This is making the rounds on Twitter. Why does it have to be this way?  

 

What the fuck is not to like about this?

Next Olympics the class will be mixed, and who comes first will win.

And since that will be in France, the boring pelvic tik tok will be replaced by a Kiss.

I've heard that Yves Pajot will try to go for gold, with his granddaughter.

 

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I can't wait for the 470 mixed, they will have to have pelvic thrusting root before the top mark or they will be DSQ'd.

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