Jump to content

"We Are In Crisis Mode"


Recommended Posts

Published: July 26, 2021 6:03 pm

‘We are in crisis mode:’ Orange County seeing nearly 1,000 new COVID-19 cases per day, leaders say

AdventHealth moves to red status as new hospitalizations increase

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County leaders gave a somber update on the county’s COVID-19 response Monday.

Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings was joined by Dr. Raul Pino, of the Florida Department of Health in Orange County, and Dr. Victor Herrera, of AdventHealth.

This briefing came as Florida is once again seeing a spike in the number of new coronavirus cases and hospitalizations due to the virus. On Monday, the mayor said the county was seeing nearly 1,000 new COVID-19 cases per day.

“Those are the numbers we saw at the highest peak last year,” Demings said. “A thousand a day is extraordinary. We are now in crisis mode.”

 

So much for the governor's plan of pretending the pandemic is over.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 293
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The behavior pattern is established, it won’t change. There is no sense hounding these people anymore. These viruses are out there now, it’s permanent, it’s over. There will be new variants every year

Stay home, surf the net for interesting/funny/informative stuff, listen to/play more music, read more books, cook more slow meals, get more love from your dog, avoid your mrs. if she's cranky, have af

??? What? Do you think lockdowns are a cure? They're a piece of the pandemic management puzzle, nothing more, nothing less.  Lockdowns are all about managing the case loads so the medical he

Posted Images

Who is this "we" of which you speak.  He?  Sure, he seems prone to panic, hyperbole and constant lies.  Me and many others?  No, not so much.  OK, not at all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jules said:

Published: July 26, 2021 6:03 pm

‘We are in crisis mode:’ Orange County seeing nearly 1,000 new COVID-19 cases per day, leaders say

AdventHealth moves to red status as new hospitalizations increase

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County leaders gave a somber update on the county’s COVID-19 response Monday.

Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings was joined by Dr. Raul Pino, of the Florida Department of Health in Orange County, and Dr. Victor Herrera, of AdventHealth.

This briefing came as Florida is once again seeing a spike in the number of new coronavirus cases and hospitalizations due to the virus. On Monday, the mayor said the county was seeing nearly 1,000 new COVID-19 cases per day.

“Those are the numbers we saw at the highest peak last year,” Demings said. “A thousand a day is extraordinary. We are now in crisis mode.”

 

So much for the governor's plan of pretending the pandemic is over.

Nothing says a D variant superspreader quite like Epcot, Walt Disney World and Universal Studios..........

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mid said:

Hang on, @Wessjust told us diabetes is worse???? 

It's an exercise bulimic more scared of fat than covid. Take with grain of Splenda.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I hoped we would do better locally for this fourth wave, however we are still only around 56% of eligible population fully vaccinated (which might just mean two shots, rather than two shots plus at least two weeks, which is the minimum to consider yourself fully vaccinated), and that's over 12, so most kids not included yet. However, we have an almost 10X increase in cases in a month, from 23 in a week to 198 in a week. YUCK!

1452489128_ScreenShot2021-07-27at3_19_12PM.png.6c0ee2a7c24f5114f10aece82d5ea4df.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to a doctor today. 15th floor. Got on elevator with 2 people. Ended up with 8 on board kept jamming in, holding door. 5 old farts like me probably vaccinated, most in kn95 masks. 3 under 30 in flimsy gaping surgical masks,

Same going down. Kept stopping.

Should have gotten off. Should have walked stairs. Showered when home.  This is how we keep it going. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well now apparently we're supposed to put our masks on as good little vaxxed people. That way we can all frown at the unmasked and know who's not vaxxed and thank them for misunderstanding self-interest as we key their cars in the parking lot. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

You just cant fix stupid 

Food Safety and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | FDA

wanta bet ?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things to remember before you panic..

 

1./ The CDC is phasing out current PCR kits because they can't differentiate between Covid and flu.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

 

2./ The Poms are just realizing that half their Covid hospital patients didn't have Covid when they were admitted.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/26/exclusive-half-covid-hospitalisations-tested-positive-admission/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

I went to a doctor today. 15th floor. Got on elevator with 2 people. Ended up with 8 on board kept jamming in, holding door. 5 old farts like me probably vaccinated, most in kn95 masks. 3 under 30 in flimsy gaping surgical masks,

Same going down. Kept stopping.

Should have gotten off. Should have walked stairs. Showered when home.  This is how we keep it going. 

Should just take your mask off when going down, and don't stop, that kills the rhythm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Headline in the Local News section of today's paper:

Local COVID-19 hospitalizations almost all unvaccinated

Only .02% of those hospitalized had been vaccinated.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jules said:

Headline in the Local News section of today's paper:

Local COVID-19 hospitalizations almost all unvaccinated

Only .02% of those hospitalized had been vaccinated.

Apparently the virus doesn't care if you are taking the high ground, taking responsibility for yourself, and not getting vaccinated.  My body, my choice, right?  It just doesn't care.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Apparently the virus doesn't care if you are taking the high ground, taking responsibility for yourself, and not getting vaccinated.  My body, my choice, right?  It just doesn't care.

Yes, take the high ground, don't get vaccinated and help spread the virus.  It's a shame so many didn't do the same with polio and smallpox.  It's time we take a stand against these medical professional dictators.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2021 at 3:43 PM, NeedAClew said:

I went to a doctor today. 15th floor. Got on elevator with 2 people. Ended up with 8 on board kept jamming in, holding door. 5 old farts like me probably vaccinated, most in kn95 masks. 3 under 30 in flimsy gaping surgical masks,

Same going down. Kept stopping.

Should have gotten off. Should have walked stairs. Showered when home.  This is how we keep it going. 

Doctors offices and hospitals around here have signs in all the elevators that there is a limit of 4 people per car. One person in each corner of the car.  One the ones I’ve been on people are following the guidance

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Doctors offices and hospitals around here have signs in all the elevators that there is a limit of 4 people per car. One person in each corner of the car.  One the ones I’ve been on people are following the guidance

Same here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2021 at 8:27 PM, Cristoforo said:

You only have to go to your local Arkansas Walmart. 

65 percent of the Arkansas population is not fully vaccinated 

You are suppose to wear a mask in an Arkansas Walmart  if you are not vaccinated 

A recent survey found ten percent of Arkansas Walmart shoppers wearing masks.

 

The behavior pattern is established, it won’t change. There is no sense hounding these people anymore. These viruses are out there now, it’s permanent, it’s over. There will be new variants every year from now on. I think now we should just offer the vaccine like a flu shot and if people don’t get it, fine. And do like Asia has for years, some people wear masks on the train, some don’t, fine.

It would have been great if people had done the civic thing, but they didn’t, they won’t, and now we should shut up and let them all fuck off and die.

I read 3 stories yesterday of anti-vax Covid hoax assholes who ended up on ventilators and then say “I was wrong, this shit is real.” I HATE those people.

Can we please just STOP giving these fools govt rules and guidance to react to? Because I cannot stand having to see their fat little dumbass Cracker Barrel faces make brain dead mouth farts about hoaxes, “Chaaanah”, conspiracies, freedom etc etc etc every single fucking day forever. Just let them all float away on Carnival cruise ships with their buffets and line dancing and swapping redneck spit. Covid will not kill me because I am not a moron, but having to see DOPES at lake of the ozarks and Branson going blah blah blah all the freaking time is seriously damaging my outlook on life, what I thought I understood about humanity, and mental well being.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

779B252B-6779-4BA7-8FA6-5D4D9D2DD2F0.thumb.jpeg.d1da33337dfab7b9df64e0d562343b5a.jpeg3F60FCE6-E8FC-4BC5-ABCF-E8FCAC79449E.thumb.jpeg.4adc68de71280a498320202e8dbc18ff.jpeg

The test will be whether CA has a death spike soon or not. Perhaps they will, perhaps they are better at treatment. Perhaps the case data is off. But if there is a spike in deaths, the behavior of the morons still won’t change.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, loneshark64 said:

The behavior pattern is established, it won’t change. There is no sense hounding these people anymore. These viruses are out there now, it’s permanent, it’s over. There will be new variants every year from now on. I think now we should just offer the vaccine like a flu shot and if people don’t get it, fine. And do like Asia has for years, some people wear masks on the train, some don’t, fine.

It would have been great if people had done the civic thing, but they didn’t, they won’t, and now we should shut up and let them all fuck off and die.

I read 3 stories yesterday of anti-vax Covid hoax assholes who ended up on ventilators and then say “I was wrong, this shit is real.” I HATE those people.

Can we please just STOP giving these fools govt rules and guidance to react to? Because I cannot stand having to see their fat little dumbass Cracker Barrel faces make brain dead mouth farts about hoaxes, “Chaaanah”, conspiracies, freedom etc etc etc every single fucking day forever. Just let them all float away on Carnival cruise ships with their buffets and line dancing and swapping redneck spit. Covid will not kill me because I am not a moron, but having to see DOPES at lake of the ozarks and Branson going blah blah blah all the freaking time is seriously damaging my outlook on life, what I thought I understood about humanity, and mental well being.

Agreed on being angry with these anti-vaxx idiots, but your argument only works if they all quietly die at home. But that will not happen, they will flood hospitals and cost society enormously. Given that scenario, government has a duty to step in and try to slow things down.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Agreed on being angry with these anti-vaxx idiots, but your argument only works if they all quietly die at home. But that will not happen, they will flood hospitals and cost society enormously. Given that scenario, government has a duty to step in and try to slow things down.

Cheapest program ever to reduce the influence of the religious. If there is a duty smart Americans have, it is to speed it all up. 

  • Like 3
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

The behavior pattern is established, it won’t change. There is no sense hounding these people anymore. These viruses are out there now, it’s permanent, it’s over. There will be new variants every year from now on. I think now we should just offer the vaccine like a flu shot and if people don’t get it, fine. And do like Asia has for years, some people wear masks on the train, some don’t, fine.

It would have been great if people had done the civic thing, but they didn’t, they won’t, and now we should shut up and let them all fuck off and die.

I read 3 stories yesterday of anti-vax Covid hoax assholes who ended up on ventilators and then say “I was wrong, this shit is real.” I HATE those people.

Can we please just STOP giving these fools govt rules and guidance to react to? Because I cannot stand having to see their fat little dumbass Cracker Barrel faces make brain dead mouth farts about hoaxes, “Chaaanah”, conspiracies, freedom etc etc etc every single fucking day forever. Just let them all float away on Carnival cruise ships with their buffets and line dancing and swapping redneck spit. Covid will not kill me because I am not a moron, but having to see DOPES at lake of the ozarks and Branson going blah blah blah all the freaking time is seriously damaging my outlook on life, what I thought I understood about humanity, and mental well being.

That is all very well. 

I would just like to make a case on behalf of the unvaccinated who have been fed the wrong information.   I see them as patients and occasionally as hospital employees facing mandated vaccination.

I guestimate that maybe 10-30% of the unvaccinated are genuine anti-vaxxers.  No science to that estimate, just a gut feel based on my patient base.  I have met only two genuine anti-vaxxers, the rest are vaccine hesitant.  A lot of that hesitancy has been caused by the messaging coming from the anti-vaxxers.  @Wess criticizes the pro-vaccine lobby for pushing too hard to get people vaccinated. but I think that the anti-vax lobby is waay more vocal and has less qualms about pushing a message no matter how inaccurate or irrelevant.   They even got an opinion piece in the WSJ the other day which included the discredited research from Egypt.

So in addition to anti-vaxxers (who arguably desrve what they get) and young people who are content to take risk, we have a large number of people between the age of 30 and 65 who have been scared by the anti-vax message, and are just plain uncertain of what to do.  The vaccine lobby needs to do a better job or find a better messenger , just to make sure they are making an informed decision

Every fiber in my body has been trained to provide what I do to people, no matter their creed, religion, politics gender or color. I get a huge satisfaction out a good medical outcome.  So I find it extremely difficult just to say "If they are so ill informed, it is their fault, let them die or suffer from long-covid"  .   At the very least we (everyone in America) should want people to make an informed decision.     

I will leave you with one actual example.  I saw a young mother who is unvaccinated , despite an "at risk" score  who has not been vaccinated because she has heard that the vaccine will make her unable to have further children. I cannot advise her on this but I urged her to speak to her obgyn or PCP as soon as possible. It is simply intolerable that this stuff is out there.......and it is not fair to write off the vaccine hesitant just because they are susceptible to rumors on social media.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Cheapest program ever to reduce the influence of the religious. If there is a duty smart Americans have, it is to speed it all up. 

In the early stages of the pandemic, the orthodox jews in NY got hammered by the virus with above average spread and above average mortality.

 I dont wish covid on any group of Americans , whether they are religious or not. 

I realize you were being humorous.  I have even heard Democrats talk about how this will give them a multi-decade advantage when covid takes out a disproportionate number of Republican voters.

Damn its sad.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Really struggling to see how or why this is something that I am supposed to do anything about. 

There's a free and effective vaccine that almost entirely prevents hospitalization and death, and yet fools won't take it.  Well... that's on them.

But me being vaccinated, the chances are <.2% that I'd even be hospitalized if I caught it... that's just below the general noise/risk level, I'm not making any changes to my life to protect those who refuse to help themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Doctors offices and hospitals around here have signs in all the elevators that there is a limit of 4 people per car. One person in each corner of the car.  One the ones I’ve been on people are following the guidance

I don't blame anyone for ignoring stupid guidance like this. What, do you think the air stays in your corner of the elevator?

Get vaccinated. Or don't, and get sick or die. But pointless rules like this are just an inconvenience & creates a false equality between ineffective measures and the very effective vaccine. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

That is all very well. 

I would just like to make a case on behalf of the unvaccinated who have been fed the wrong information.   I see them as patients and occasionally as hospital employees facing mandated vaccination.

I guestimate that maybe 10-30% of the unvaccinated are genuine anti-vaxxers.  No science to that estimate, just a gut feel based on my patient base.  I have met only two genuine anti-vaxxers, the rest are vaccine hesitant.  A lot of that hesitancy has been caused by the messaging coming from the anti-vaxxers.  @Wess criticizes the pro-vaccine lobby for pushing too hard to get people vaccinated. but I think that the anti-vax lobby is waay more vocal and has less qualms about pushing a message no matter how inaccurate or irrelevant.   They even got an opinion piece in the WSJ the other day which included the discredited research from Egypt.

So in addition to anti-vaxxers (who arguably desrve what they get) and young people who are content to take risk, we have a large number of people between the age of 30 and 65 who have been scared by the anti-vax message, and are just plain uncertain of what to do.  The vaccine lobby needs to do a better job or find a better messenger , just to make sure they are making an informed decision

Every fiber in my body has been trained to provide what I do to people, no matter their creed, religion, politics gender or color. I get a huge satisfaction out a good medical outcome.  So I find it extremely difficult just to say "If they are so ill informed, it is their fault, let them die or suffer from long-covid"  .   At the very least we (everyone in America) should want people to make an informed decision.     

I will leave you with one actual example.  I saw a young mother who is unvaccinated , despite an "at risk" score  who has not been vaccinated because she has heard that the vaccine will make her unable to have further children. I cannot advise her on this but I urged her to speak to her obgyn or PCP as soon as possible. It is simply intolerable that this stuff is out there.......and it is not fair to write off the vaccine hesitant just because they are susceptible to rumors on social media.

 

Of course you are right. Doctors should make the right recommendations to everyone who comes in. But it is not my responsibility any more. After a year and a half it should no longer be the responsibility of me and everyone else to protect that young mother by all of us getting vaccinated, wearing masks again and doing everything we are supposed to do, while they don’t. 

It’s not like the information about what to do isn’t out there. It could not be more available or clear. People who decide not to get vaccinated have chosen not to listen to the president, the CDC, every reputable scientist in the world and their own doctors. Describing these sources of correct guidance as “the vaccine lobby” contributes to the problem. They are not the vaccine lobby, they are the people in charge. They have been as clear as it is possible to be. We, the taxpayers paid for the vaccines! They are free. You have to go out of your way to make the wrong decision.

The people you describe as “just plain uncertain what to do” are actually just plain fucking irresponsible.

Or stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick. To be a citizen adult in the world at this time in history you need to put the bare minimum amount of effort in so you don’t get run over but a pandemic or something else. 

You “find it extremely difficult to let them” get sick after this. I no longer do. You “want them to make an informed decision.” They already did; they got informed and then made a decision. That’s that. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

In the early stages of the pandemic, the orthodox jews in NY got hammered by the virus with above average spread and above average mortality.

 I dont wish covid on any group of Americans , whether they are religious or not. 

I realize you were being humorous.  I have even heard Democrats talk about how this will give them a multi-decade advantage when covid takes out a disproportionate number of Republican voters.

Damn its sad.

 

No it is not even remotely sad. Sooner or later all anti-fact movements run into something (the “anti-bullshit tragedy”) that doesn’t care about branding or messaging or any other non fact bullshit, and then they suffer until they either accept reality or die.

 

 The longer they are allowed to spread, the more powerful they grow, and the more tragic the eventual anti-bullshit tragedy will be. COVID has improved the chance that the worlds’ gullible - in other words, the uneducated and the religious believers - will be less amenable to being used as cannon fodder for the GOP in its quest to deny climate change, destroy civil rights, and elevate white traditionalism.

 

Every death now means fewer deaths later.  

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Of course you are right. Doctors should make the right recommendations to everyone who comes in. But it is not my responsibility any more. After a year and a half it should no longer be the responsibility of me and everyone else to protect that young mother by all of us getting vaccinated, wearing masks again and doing everything we are supposed to do, while they don’t. 

It’s not like the information about what to do isn’t out there. It could not be more available or clear. People who decide not to get vaccinated have chosen not to listen to the president, the CDC, every reputable scientist in the world and their own doctors. Describing these sources of correct guidance as “the vaccine lobby” contributes to the problem. They are not the vaccine lobby, they are the people in charge. They have been as clear as it is possible to be. We, the taxpayers paid for the vaccines! They are free. You have to go out of your way to make the wrong decision.

The people you describe as “just plain uncertain what to do” are actually just plain fucking irresponsible.

Or stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick. To be a citizen adult in the world at this time in history you need to put the bare minimum amount of effort in so you don’t get run over but a pandemic or something else. 

You “find it extremely difficult to let them” get sick after this. I no longer do. You “want them to make an informed decision.” They already did; they got informed and then made a decision. That’s that. 

I hear you Lone, I really do.

I find myself considerably more angry about those who peddle the misinformation than the people who got scared by the misinformation.

They didnt get informed, they got misinformed............and both extremes of the political spectrum now seem to think this is okay.  ,@Wess because they should have the freedom to make dumb decisions, @loneshark64 because they are either plain stupid or irresponsible, @MR.CLEAN because they are uneducated and religious   .

It is not okay with me. 

I dont have a logical explanation why I care........It is a visceral instinct with me.....I never want to give up on anyone . 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

No it is not even remotely sad. Sooner or later all anti-fact movements run into something (the “anti-bullshit tragedy”) that doesn’t care about branding or messaging or any other non fact bullshit, and then they suffer until they either accept reality or die.

 

 The longer they are allowed to spread, the more powerful they grow, and the more tragic the eventual anti-bullshit tragedy will be. COVID has improved the chance that the worlds’ gullible - in other words, the uneducated and the religious believers - will be less amenable to being used as cannon fodder for the GOP in its quest to deny climate change, destroy civil rights, and elevate white traditionalism.

 

Every death now means fewer deaths later.  

That is incredibly condescending towards the "uneducated" and the "religious".   

There are many blue constituents who are not getting vaccinated.

Why do you turn this into a political message? It is not going to help encourage people to get vaccinated.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Of course you are right. Doctors should make the right recommendations to everyone who comes in. But it is not my responsibility any more. After a year and a half it should no longer be the responsibility of me and everyone else to protect that young mother by all of us getting vaccinated, wearing masks again and doing everything we are supposed to do, while they don’t. 

It’s not like the information about what to do isn’t out there. It could not be more available or clear. People who decide not to get vaccinated have chosen not to listen to the president, the CDC, every reputable scientist in the world and their own doctors. Describing these sources of correct guidance as “the vaccine lobby” contributes to the problem. They are not the vaccine lobby, they are the people in charge. They have been as clear as it is possible to be. We, the taxpayers paid for the vaccines! They are free. You have to go out of your way to make the wrong decision.

The people you describe as “just plain uncertain what to do” are actually just plain fucking irresponsible.

Or stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick. To be a citizen adult in the world at this time in history you need to put the bare minimum amount of effort in so you don’t get run over but a pandemic or something else. 

You “find it extremely difficult to let them” get sick after this. I no longer do. You “want them to make an informed decision.” They already did; they got informed and then made a decision. That’s that. 

Too bad people don't "see on the Internet" that the vaccine lets you have multiple orgasms or something. 

Kind of Darwinian too that the thing these gullible/stupid/intellectually lazy/whatever people care most about is their ability to reproduce.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's how I see it, FWIW:

1. The unvaccinated-by-choice crowd is sustaining the Delta pandemic

2. That active pool of Delta infections is penetrating the vaccinated population at a low but significant rate

3. The ongoing infections of vaccinated individuals is applying selective pressure on Delta to escape immunity, which could nullify the effectiveness of our vaccines

4. If Delta escapes immunity, we're all back to square 1 with the pandemic

This is no longer a question of personal responsibility. We're in the "don't yell fire in a crowded theater" territory where individual rights are subsumed by the greater social responsibility. 

There's also a #5 to the list above, which is the fact that covid's asymptomatic spread largely decouples the success of the virus from its virulence. As a result, there's very little downside for the virus' spread if it becomes significantly more deadly than it already is in week 2 of the disease. We've been lucky so far that the fatality rates aren't higher but #5 coupled with escape from immunity could turn a serious but manageable pandemic into one that's a firestorm.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

That is incredibly condescending towards the "uneducated" and the "religious".   

There are many blue constituents who are not getting vaccinated.

Why do you turn this into a political message? It is not going to help encourage people to get vaccinated.

They aren't going to get vaccinated. I am not a doctor and am free to accept that. 

Time to move on, those of us who can. I hate those assholes who are spreading this and even the ones dying in the ICU. Their choice informed by whatever fantasy they chose to be informed by.

We were in the "don't yell fire" zone six months ago. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some info on kids from a local pediatrician https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/Houston-pediatrician-warns-parents-to-take-COVID-16347102.php

It's long, there is an audio clip as well as the transcript.  The paper here gives I believe 5 free a month.  She is very concerned, the short version is there is another virus going viral (pun intended) that makes the Covid one more serious.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I hear you Lone, I really do.

I find myself considerably more angry about those who peddle the misinformation .

They didnt get informed, they got misinformed............and both extremes of the political spectrum now seem to think this is okay.  ,@Wess because they should have the freedom to make dumb decisions, @loneshark64 because they are either plain stupid or irresponsible, @MR.CLEAN because they are uneducated and religious   .

It is not okay with me. 

I dont have a logical explanation why I care........It is a visceral instinct with me.....I never want to give up on anyone . 

They may have been misinformed but they are incredibly dug in to staying that way. Beyond help. You are a good doctor, you have an oath. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Our kids all had RSV when they were babies. It's can get about as serious as you'd tolerate without taking the kid in. I can easily see how a co-infection with Covid could lead to a serious situation.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is not okay with me. 

I dont have a logical explanation why I care

It is probably good that you are a doctors doctor I am not. I was pre med for a year but ended up doing mergers and acquisitions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Too bad people don't "see on the Internet" that the vaccine lets you have multiple orgasms or something. 

Good point. I got the vaccine and I am having multiple orgasms. Let’s see, there was one in May, one in early July….

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Good point. I got the vaccine and I am having multiple orgasms. Let’s see, there was one in May, one in early July….

In the same year? I am impressed!  :rolleyes:

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Of course you are right. Doctors should make the right recommendations to everyone who comes in. But it is not my responsibility any more. After a year and a half it should no longer be the responsibility of me and everyone else to protect that young mother by all of us getting vaccinated, wearing masks again and doing everything we are supposed to do, while they don’t. 

It’s not like the information about what to do isn’t out there. It could not be more available or clear. People who decide not to get vaccinated have chosen not to listen to the president, the CDC, every reputable scientist in the world and their own doctors. Describing these sources of correct guidance as “the vaccine lobby” contributes to the problem. They are not the vaccine lobby, they are the people in charge. They have been as clear as it is possible to be. We, the taxpayers paid for the vaccines! They are free. You have to go out of your way to make the wrong decision.

The people you describe as “just plain uncertain what to do” are actually just plain fucking irresponsible.

Or stupid. Or lazy. Take your pick. To be a citizen adult in the world at this time in history you need to put the bare minimum amount of effort in so you don’t get run over but a pandemic or something else. 

You “find it extremely difficult to let them” get sick after this. I no longer do. You “want them to make an informed decision.” They already did; they got informed and then made a decision. That’s that. 

A PHd acquaintance in the medical field, who happens to be very religious, threw her hands up during a debate about some stupid conspiracy theory because "how was she supposed to keep track of all this competing information" (paraphrased). She I believe is fairly reasonable and intelligent but her husband is well on the RWNJ end of the spectrum, "Obama kills babies" "Trump is going to end abortion" "BLM are terrorists" "antifa are crisis actors" "Pelosi is Satan" "I will be the last person to get a vaccine."...the whole shebang. I try not to talk to him anymore. However, that whole side of the family just ditched WhatsApp because Trump was dumped by Facebook and there's paedophiles on WhatsApp:blink:. Wife and I tried to provide factual information about a number of these things with the general push-back being "someone I trust told me something different so I'm not going to research it anymore, who has the time." Them being very religious, I believe they are being told lies by their new age church.

Point being, some people are thoroughly overwhelmed by all the opinions available and are trusting the wrong sources.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

That is incredibly condescending towards the "uneducated" and the "religious".   

There are many blue constituents who are not getting vaccinated.

Why do you turn this into a political message? It is not going to help encourage people to get vaccinated.

"No it is not even remotely sad. Sooner or later all anti-fact movements run into something (the “anti-bullshit tragedy”) that doesn’t care about branding or messaging or any other non fact bullshit, and then they suffer until they either accept reality or die. "

That bit is absolutely spot-on. It's a description of reality, nothing more.

Years ago, maybe 2 decades, I was stupid enough to argue with one of the new-age Left types who informed me that I didn't know any more than he did, my knowledge being merely indoctrination from the science brainwashing people. That science was just one social construct out of many and his was just as valid as mine.

I invited him to test his belief in alternative physics by stepping off of a multi-storey building and seeing if he went up, down or stayed where he was.

Funnily, he changed the subject.

I'm utterly unapologetic in being with Clean here. You can tell people. You can give them information sources. You can give them statistics and examples. If, after all that, they won't listen and they won't act, the consequences are on them. So sad but the upside, a slight improvement in the IQ of the human race.

FKT

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

That is incredibly condescending towards the "uneducated" and the "religious".   

There are many blue constituents who are not getting vaccinated.

Why do you turn this into a political message? It is not going to help encourage people to get vaccinated.

Maybe explain to those condescending elite and mostly well educated professionals how social media algorithms work.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many reasons why people are vaccine hesitant or even vaccine lazy many reasons why people seemingly ignore masking and social distancing rules. (as Eye points out, the number of genuine anti vaxxers is pretty low.

Setting those aside, examine by demographic.

An observation of 4 different strip shopping precincts in a 3km radius where outdoor maskwearing is manditory. in a predominantly Australian/European area.

First. Yesterday, I had to take my daughter to the doctors, the area is a once gentrified  "drugs, musicians and artist" area. well most of the Artists and Musicians have grown old and dies or fled, leaving? Stranded backpackers and drug addicts. 

40% of people unmasked.

I think its a no brainer to know why the above cohort are neither vaccinating or masking etc.

Second. literally across the highway 400 metres away, walking around looking at about 20% unmasked. 

Area is mostly young, well paid, educated single hipsters.

These are just "dont care, It's a hastle, it won't effect me"   (I work here)

Third  1 km away, older liberal Jewish population, older Russian migrants, middle aged moderately wealthy empty nesters. about 10% unmasked. (My mum was in aged care and lived here, I lived here 7 years ago)

Fourth 3km from first area. Very wealthy (old money), well educated area, lots of professionals (Lawyer, Doctor, 5-6 figure incomes, lots of Middle aged gay and lesbian couples. (live here)

In a 30 minutes period , We saw not a single person without a mask.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fifth.  5-6 figure incomes wealthy, mostly new money. 2 kids and hetro parents. mix of professionals and self made wealth.

maybe 5% unmasked. The hair and nails and tennis set.

Sixth middle class (ours not yours) mixed ethnicity demographic, now much favoured by asian students. Mixed wealth but at least snr high school (year 12) some tertiary education or higher. Mask almost universal. (My son lives here) 

This is  in Victoria AU.

It would be interesting to read others demographical observations.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Melibob said:

It would be interesting to read others demographical observations.

Where I live - Ryde LGA, Sydney, maybe 40% of people outdoors with masks.

Pretty much 100% compliance indoors/shopping. That's within walking distance, I've been deliberately restricting my movements, haven't driven anywhere or got on a ferry for ~3 weeks.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Where I live - Ryde LGA, Sydney, maybe 40% of people outdoors with masks.

Pretty much 100% compliance indoors/shopping. That's within walking distance, I've been deliberately restricting my movements, haven't driven anywhere or got on a ferry for ~3 weeks.

FKT

It's not mandatory outside in that area is it? any comment on the demographic?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I hear you Lone, I really do.

I find myself considerably more angry about those who peddle the misinformation than the people who got scared by the misinformation.

They didnt get informed, they got misinformed............and both extremes of the political spectrum now seem to think this is okay.  ,@Wess because they should have the freedom to make dumb decisions, @loneshark64 because they are either plain stupid or irresponsible, @MR.CLEAN because they are uneducated and religious   .

It is not okay with me. 

I dont have a logical explanation why I care........It is a visceral instinct with me.....I never want to give up on anyone . 

Logic has nothing to do with feelings and that is the problem with the pro versus anti situation. The fact that the anti brigade has so much appeal is really a failure by the pro faction who can't believe that the antis will affect the matter.

This is a leadership issue in the USA and the antis have more effective leaders than the pros, the pro leadership needed to appeal to the majority by making good decisions at the very start but they failed.

In New Zealand the leaders went into an early and hard lock down right at the beginning and had 87% support from the people, to this day the anti brigade is conspicuous by their absence.  We have not had a community case for months and nearly a year since we had a death from Covid.  On top of that our economy is doing fine and unemployment is less than 5%.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are also people who are not anti vax per se, but those who refuse to taint their bodies with alcohol, tobacco, drugs, meat or other animal products and vaccinations. They don't preach or try to convert others. (well some do) That's their choice and that should be respected.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Melibob said:

It's not mandatory outside in that area is it? any comment on the demographic?

No, not mandatory.

Dunno what the demographic is. Apartments run $750K to over $1M, houses $1.3M and up. Used to be old housing and light industrial 30+ years ago.

Lots of migrants predominantly Korean but a good mix of others. Still a lot of old time residents owning the houses. We bought this place in 1985, it was a pre-war 2 BR weatherboard cottage in average to poor condition on a big block. But excellent transport access & childcare access which had become important.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Logic has nothing to do with feelings and that is the problem with the pro versus anti situation. The fact that the anti brigade has so much appeal is really a failure by the pro faction who can't believe that the antis will affect the matter.

This is a leadership issue in the USA and the antis have more effective leaders than the pros, the pro leadership needed to appeal to the majority by making good decisions at the very start but they failed.

In New Zealand the leaders went into an early and hard lock down right at the beginning and had 87% support from the people, to this day the anti brigade is conspicuous by their absence.  We have not had a community case for months and nearly a year since we had a death from Covid.  On top of that our economy is doing fine and unemployment is less than 5%.

Agreed, but can I ask how your vaccine rollout is going?

you've got 5 million people and only about 20% with first jab

 

Supply issues or reluctance?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Melibob said:

There are also people who are not anti vax per se, but those who refuse to taint their bodies with alcohol, tobacco, drugs, meat or other animal products. They don't preach or try to convert others. (well some do) That's their choice and should be respected.

There's a difference between those things, which affect only themselves for good or ill, and not getting vaccinated for a highly contagious disease. What would be your take if one of them had TB and said they were refusing treatment because that was their choice?

I'm happy to respect their choice as long as they realise that it comes with consequences like getting excluded from a lot of activities until this ceases to be a major public health issue. They can't have it both ways.

I don't drink alcohol any more, I haven't smoked in over 40 years and I don't use recreational drugs. That doesn't give me a pass on putting other people at risk.

I've had just this conversation with one of my ex staff and a friend of 20 years standing. He seems to have drunk the kool-aid. I had to say that he couldn't come & visit or stay with me in Tas until he was vaccinated or this was no longer a public health issue. If he was carrying it, I could get it and pass it to my GF even though we're both vaccinated, and she works in disabilities with people who are immune-compromised and have other health issues and CAN'T be vaccinated. Covid would likely be a death sentence for them.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

There's a difference between those things, which affect only themselves for good or ill, and not getting vaccinated for a highly contagious disease. What would be your take if one of them had TB and said they were refusing treatment because that was their choice?

I'm happy to respect their choice as long as they realise that it comes with consequences like getting excluded from a lot of activities until this ceases to be a major public health issue. They can't have it both ways.

I don't drink alcohol any more, I haven't smoked in over 40 years and I don't use recreational drugs. That doesn't give me a pass on putting other people at risk.

I've had just this conversation with one of my ex staff and a friend of 20 years standing. He seems to have drunk the kool-aid. I had to say that he couldn't come & visit or stay with me in Tas until he was vaccinated or this was no longer a public health issue. If he was carrying it, I could get it and pass it to my GF even though we're both vaccinated, and she works in disabilities with people who are immune-compromised and have other health issues and CAN'T be vaccinated. Covid would likely be a death sentence for them.

FKT

The people I'm talking about do realise the consequences. Most were probable vaccinated against TB etc as children. Not their choice. As adults they wont take an aspirin, but they strictly conform to all the mask, QR codes and social distancing mandates without any issues . When I and my household are vaccinated they are welcome in my home.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Melibob said:

Agreed, but can I ask how your vaccine rollout is going?

you've got 5 million people and only about 20% with first jab

 

Supply issues or reluctance?

The vaccine roll out in New Zealand is very slow, we supported and purchased a small quantity of five different vaccines and and observed the performance in other countries, eventually the pfiver vaccine was chosen for the whole country.  The border workers and their families were vaccinated first and then the over 65's now they are doing the over 60's and should have done all the rest that want it by October.

As there is no community transmission that seems reasonable, there is no organised resistance to the vaccine so far, but some of the social media anti stuff seems to have affected some people.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

The vaccine roll out in New Zealand is very slow, we supported and purchased a small quantity of five different vaccines and and observed the performance in other countries, eventually the pfiver vaccine was chosen for the whole country.  The border workers and their families were vaccinated first and then the over 65's now they are doing the over 60's and should have done all the rest that want it by October.

As there is no community transmission that seems reasonable, there is no organised resistance to the vaccine so far, but some of the social media anti stuff seems to have affected some people.

You've just approved AZ. I get sticking with the plan, but this Delta can move fast. And ignore the spin. two shots of AZ is 97% effective.

 

 

Don't be Sydney. and don't be complacent.

https://theconversation.com/more-than-1-in-3-new-zealanders-remain-hesitant-or-sceptical-about-covid-19-vaccines-heres-how-to-reach-them-156489

https://theconversation.com/30-of-new-zealanders-are-vaccine-sceptics-so-trust-is-key-to-covid-19-vaccine-roll-out-151291

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Melibob said:

The people I'm talking about do realise the consequences. Most were probable vaccinated against TB etc as children. Not their choice. As adults they wont take an aspirin, but they strictly conform to all the mask, QR codes and social distancing mandates without any issues . When I and my household are vaccinated they are welcome in my home.

 

Once vaxed I'd not be worried for myself or my GF - she's fully vaxed with Pfizer, I have one more shot of Astra to go, probably end of next week. It's that transmission chain to the vulnerable that concerns me. If my friend had 2 consecutive negative tests I'd be OK with him visiting. Same reason I'm not moving about much here and staying away from the hospital despite the problems that's causing with code modifications and testing. If I inadvertently take infection into the lab there'll be really severe consequences.

It'll be interesting to see how many stick to their anti-vax position when it comes to the point of them being under restrictions that don't apply to others. They may well find, for example, that overseas travel is no longer available to them.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 

It'll be interesting to see how many stick to their anti-vax position when it comes to the point of them being under restrictions that don't apply to others. They may well find, for example, that overseas travel is no longer available to them.

FKT

For "anti vaxers" I agree.

Persecuting genuine, "pure body" people (for want of a different label) is another. Bit like punishing pacifists for their principles.

But as we now all have to wait until we have 80% of the adult population vaccinated before we can go OS, I can't whip up too much enthusiasm for the "rewards" of being vaccinated idea.<_<

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Melibob said:

You've just approved AZ. I get sticking with the plan, but this Delta can move fast. And ignore the spin. two shots of AZ is 97% effective.

 

 

Don't be Sydney. and don't be complacent.

https://theconversation.com/more-than-1-in-3-new-zealanders-remain-hesitant-or-sceptical-about-covid-19-vaccines-heres-how-to-reach-them-156489

https://theconversation.com/30-of-new-zealanders-are-vaccine-sceptics-so-trust-is-key-to-covid-19-vaccine-roll-out-151291

As I understand it the AZ vaccination has been approved so it can be donated to the various Pacific Islands, I am not aware of any proposal to depart from the pfiver vaccine plan for everyone in NZ but that could change after the current program is complete.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Melibob said:

Maybe explain to those condescending elite and mostly well educated professionals how social media algorithms work.   

That is the thing, this whole process of belief adoption is wired in and a million years old. Ideas accompanied with emotion (fear) and one emotional example (“my sisters cousins kid got the shot and now he’s autistic”) while a person is under stress are adopted quickly. Then amplified by social pressure, and then spread. Ideas that require use of the pre frontal cortex, reason and complex data are adopted slower. The former process is older than the latter. It is critical for survival if you are a hunter gatherer living in the woods. Or in a preliterate and prescientific society such as a Dollar General parking lot in Kansas. This is how religions work. Deprogramming these beliefs is hard. It’s why people stay in cults even when the  rational parts of their minds are telling them things ain’t right.

My bottom line is, these people are not going to change their minds en masse unless everyone around them dies, and that is probably not going to happen. They made the wrong call. And it’s not my job to save them, so if they don’t want to get the shot and be smart and listen to reality, then fuck’em, I am done listening and I think we need to cut them loose.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Melibob said:

For "anti vaxers" I agree.

Persecuting genuine, "pure body" people (for want of a different label) is another. Bit like punishing pacifists for their principles.

But as we now all have to wait until we have 80% of the adult population vaccinated before we can go OS, I can't whip up too much enthusiasm for the "rewards" of being vaccinated idea.<_<

It's not punishment, it's protection of the vulnerable from those who make a decision not to get vaccinated. It doesn't matter WRT their ability to carry/transfer/infect others *why* they don't get vaccinated, only that they don't and therefore they're a higher risk vector for disease.

We don't let blind people have driver's licences, we don't allow a raft of other things as well for a variety of reasons. That's discrimination too and society decides that for the protection of the mass, it's going to happen.

I quite agree WRT overseas travel. Hell, I'm not sure how/when I'm going to get home to Tasmania ATM. Fortunately I saw this as a possibility and wrote my contract terms accordingly.

FKT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

As I understand it the AZ vaccination has been approved so it can be donated to the various Pacific Islands, I am not aware of any proposal to depart from the pfiver vaccine plan for everyone in NZ but that could change after the current program is complete.

that's a two edged sword. Great. We ( Oz included) donate a vaccine we won't (or don't want to) use ourselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

 

My bottom line is, these people are not going to change their minds en masse  unless everyone around them dies, and that is probably not going to happen. And it’s not my job to save them, so if they don’t want to get the shot and be smart and listen to reality, then fuck’em, I am done listening and I think we need to cut them loose.

Bit like religion you mean? Pardon the humour, but damn  all those pushers of fairytales and their converted. 

But some "believers" are smarter than others eh?

There are those "anti vaxers" influencers and people with ulterior motives behind this "movement" They are pure evil IMHO. But others are simply people misguidedly (imho) listening to and being duped. 

It's not at all productive to abandon them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Melibob said:

Bit like religion you mean? Pardon the humour, but damn  all those pushers of fairytales and their converted. 

But some "believers" are smarter than others eh?

Yes exactly. 

Religious belief formation can work this way. I had 12 yrs of catholic school and they scared a lot of shit into us.

The govt tried to appeal to civic responsibility, “wear a mask for other people” “save grandma” etc. But it was overpowered by “evil dr Fauci wants to come house to house and sterilize you are take your freedoms.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/29/2021 at 12:11 PM, EYESAILOR said:

In the early stages of the pandemic, the orthodox jews in NY got hammered by the virus with above average spread and above average mortality.

 I dont wish covid on any group of Americans , whether they are religious or not. 

I realize you were being humorous.  I have even heard Democrats talk about how this will give them a multi-decade advantage when covid takes out a disproportionate number of Republican voters.

Damn its sad.

While this may appear calloused, the anti-vaxers are just proving Darwin's theory.  These people have proven that their faith is greater than their intellectual capacity. 

Even some who are in the hospital or on their death beds have stubbornly stuck to their erroneous beliefs.  You can't fix stupid isn't a joke.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Jules said:

While this may appear calloused, the anti-vaxers are just proving Darwin's theory.  These people have proven that their faith is greater than their intellectual capacity. 

Even some who are in the hospital or on their death beds have stubbornly stuck to their erroneous beliefs.  You can't fix stupid isn't a joke.

I'm not arguing, but those that fuel the flames with misinformation for political gain or profit (the majority of Republicans and Facebook executives included) have moral culpability.   Its infuriating how misinformation has become part of the belief system of adults who are capable and competent in most other areas of their life.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lark said:

I'm not arguing, but those that fuel the flames with misinformation for political gain or profit (the majority of Republicans and Facebook executives included) have moral culpability.   Its infuriating how misinformation has become part of the belief system of adults who are capable and competent in most other areas of their life.  

Last night I watched an interview with medical workers who refuse the vaccine. It was like a rehearsed recital of the anti-vaxxers talking points. Nothing original, just regurgitated. Getting tougher to have any sympathy for supposedly educated people who can't think for themselves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, d&#x27;ranger said:

Last night I watched an interview with medical workers who refuse the vaccine. It was like a rehearsed recital of the anti-vaxxers talking points. Nothing original, just regurgitated. Getting tougher to have any sympathy for supposedly educated people who can't think for themselves.

What excuse will the anti-vaxxers use when the FDA full approval is given? they won't have the EUA  to fall back on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

What excuse will the anti-vaxxers use when the FDA full approval is given? they won't have the EUA  to fall back on.

They'll claim that the FDA is compromised and caved to political pressure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IStream said:

They'll claim that the FDA is compromised and caved to political pressure.

This. It is utterly pointless to keep arguing with conspiracy theorists. They just keep retreating to more and more idiotic/unbelievable stances.

I generally give it one shot and when it's obvious that they're not going to actually examine things, just keep bullshitting, I leave them to it.

From that point on, the consequences of their belief system are fully & squarely on their own heads.

FKT

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

We were watching Lollapalooza live on Hulu earlier tonight.

At first I thought it must be a replay from a previous pre-pandemic year. Then I realized it was live.

The crowd was young, happy, dancing, crowded, maskless and having a fun time. You have to see it to believe it. Its impossible to not sympathize.  Young people and the young at heart have been cooped up for a year. They will be jammed shoulder to shoulder and for four days and nights, they are forgetting about Covid and remembering what it was like to throw cares to one side and listen to great live music in an outdoor festival.

It goes on throughout the weekend. There is a gesture by requiring vaccine cards or testing or masks, but I dont see how they enforce that in a festival like Lollapalooza. Nobody was wearing masks, not the performers, the audience or the TV crews. It looked like pre-pandemic.

We have got to get our lives back and give young people their lives back.  I think we owe it to young people to get vaccinated.  I watch that crowd and I realize why we cannot insist on masks and social distancing for ever. Man(and woman) is a social animal and life is too short .    I have always had a crazy streak at heart. I wanted to be there. It made me remember the crazy fun times I have had with my husband . I want to travel again, and eat in crowded restaurants with sawdust on the floor  .  I want this damn pandemic over with. 

But we stayed at home, turned the music up , suitably socially distanced. Tomorrow I will wear my mask to the grocery store and on Monday I will be seeing faceless patients again.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I watch that crowd and I realize why we cannot insist on masks and social distancing for ever.

So… what’s a Hulu? what’s a lollapalooza? What time does The Grateful Dead hit the stage?

Questions aside, we have crossed the line, I think. I was all for enforcing mask and SD rules until the vaccines were fully available.  I fully supported the govt and CDC.  But now I think we can’t revert back to those rules, for a number of reasons I won’t reiterate.

We had one shot the first half of last year to try to shut down, wear masks and isolate to flatten the curve until we got vaccines and hopefully better treatments. People didn’t do it, and now that opportunity has passed. Covid variants are in the population for the foreseeable future. If vaccines aren’t going to be mandatory then there will be two classes of people, those that get vaccines and boosters and those that don’t. Hopefully the ratio will improve as the years go by.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

We had one shot the first half of last year to try to shut down, wear masks and isolate to flatten the curve until we got vaccines and hopefully better treatments. People didn’t do it, and now that opportunity has passed. Covid variants are in the population for the foreseeable future.

We (the world) were always going to fail, there are to many undeveloped countries that can't afford to do the right thing, currently the delta variant is the ring leader but we could get even worse variants from South America, Africa or another one from India.

Eventually we will have enough vaccinations for the developed countries to require vaccinations and covid-19 free certificates to enable it to be a requirement for everyone to cross the border.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, d&#x27;ranger said:

Last night I watched an interview with medical workers who refuse the vaccine. It was like a rehearsed recital of the anti-vaxxers talking points. Nothing original, just regurgitated. Getting tougher to have any sympathy for supposedly educated people who can't think for themselves.

This whole anti-vax movement is a frightening statement about the power political leaders and irresponsible media have over the people. 

Remember when we were kids and had to get vaccines?  Our parents just took us to the doctor and we got the shots.  And it worked and things went back to normal. 

Now, the blindly loyal are leading the charge to cull the human herd and are seemingly proud of their efforts.  It just shows how easily the human mind can be brainwashed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jules said:
21 hours ago, d&#x27;ranger said:

Last night I watched an interview with medical workers who refuse the vaccine. It was like a rehearsed recital of the anti-vaxxers talking points. Nothing original, just regurgitated. Getting tougher to have any sympathy for supposedly educated people who can't think for themselves.

This whole anti-vax movement is a frightening statement about the power political leaders and irresponsible media have over the people. 

Remember when we were kids and had to get vaccines?  Our parents just took us to the doctor and we got the shots.  And it worked and things went back to normal. 

Now, the blindly loyal are leading the charge to cull the human herd and are seemingly proud of their efforts.  It just shows how easily the human mind can be brainwashed.

It shows how powerful is the need for social acceptance, to the human brain. We are wired to live in groups, and to want to agree with "our group." Thus the term 'groupthink' is really accurate; probably more appropriate than brainwashing for these anti-vax dumbasses. 

They really are unable to process any information that disagrees with their group's agreed-on narrative. Most people are. Fortunately, most people are part of a wide enough social group that one narrow channel of info does not completely dominate their opinions/decisions about the real world.

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It shows how powerful is the need for social acceptance, to the human brain. We are wired to live in groups, and to want to agree with "our group." Thus the term 'groupthink' is really accurate; probably more appropriate than brainwashing for these anti-vax dumbasses. 

They really are unable to process any information that disagrees with their group's agreed-on narrative. Most people are. Fortunately, most people are part of a wide enough social group that one narrow channel of info does not completely dominate their opinions/decisions about the real world.

- DSK

It is not political in Chicago.......

Once the masks came off, they all came off, and soon the musicians were body surfing the crowd as if Covid never happened.

lollapalooza chicago music festival day 2 rolling stone tyler the creator

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the reality is that Its August. It is summer.  The young have already lost one summer in their lives. We have had close to 20 months to get this thing under control.  They are fed up with waiting. Young people are not dying. They want to get out and Lollapolooza represents an opportunity to bond with music loving youth and if its a bit risky? Risk taking is what people do..   In the UK, they stoically put up with another round of precautions as Delta ripped around but the Isle of Wight festival is scheduled for September and I bet it is jammed.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is not political in Chicago.......

Once the masks came off, they all came off, and soon the musicians were body surfing the crowd as if Covid never happened.

lollapalooza chicago music festival day 2 rolling stone tyler the creator

Agreed

In my post above, I was referring to anti-vaxxers and specifically the medical worker anti-vaxxers.

Given the publicity (requiring vaccine etc etc) I don't think of Lollapalooza this summer as an anti-vax event. Not the smartest thing in the world but then, something about social reinforcement.....

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some quotes from the Lollapolooza sub reddit:

"If I get it, I get it. I’m gonna enjoy this weekend. Been waiting a fat minute for a  normal summer,"

"Now that there’s an opportunity to go out, it shouldn’t be an issue for those who are vaccinated, since we’re the ones who were staying home for so long,"

90% of attendees presented vaccine certificates on day 1, so on the plus side, it has been a real incentive to get vaccinated. I am glad that the organizers are requiring vaccines or tests . Even better if they had required both.

However it will be a spreader event, It is unavoidable that there will be a mass of Delta variant break through infections. My virologist friend is estimating 1,000-8,000 cases and no I have no idea where that guess comes from

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard on TV think David Mahr (paraphrasing): we should pay Trump for every person that gets fully vaccinated, he'd get the job done.

All this youth, confusion etc that some are sympathetic about...it actually represents a failure of the 6-12 educational system for about 40 years. In grade 7, we had to learn the steps of the scientific method in my run of the mill public school. Without any sense of science, people get confused "when things change."  Worse, they really have no idea of how covid spreads and so have no idea why decent white folk like themselves get it in church. They think the dirty "others" get it.  Remember AIDS? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Heard on TV think David Mahr (paraphrasing): we should pay Trump for every person that gets fully vaccinated, he'd get the job done.

All this youth, confusion etc that some are sympathetic about...it actually represents a failure of the 6-12 educational system for about 40 years. In grade 7, we had to learn the steps of the scientific method in my run of the mill public school. Without any sense of science, people get confused "when things change."  Worse, they really have no idea of how covid spreads and so have no idea why decent white folk like themselves get it in church. They think the dirty "others" get it.  Remember AIDS? 

They still teach scientific method to my 7th grader last year exactly the same way I learned it.  My 7th grader has as good an understanding of how diseases spread as I did at that age.

The statements above about groups, groupthink, and leadership are more to the point.  The leadership of the R group has worked overtime to take power away from educators, building a coalition of religion, business, racists, and idiots.  Their messaging involves making educators into bogeymen because they are ultimately paid with public funds so the flock is instructed to disregard what they were taught in school.  This makes the flock vulnerable to liars.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And go check out UK. Increased cases that don’t translate into deaths are not exactly a bad thing. Fastest way to herd immunity. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda sad someone "young and fit" only cares about death. Heck, my boomer lifestyle ambitions and goals are better than "not dead."

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites