Jump to content

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

What happened to the rules governing built in the country of origin of the participating syndicate.
Fuck this AC circus is employing more clowns by the day.

They are being sold a bunch of complete bollocks, obviously :)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 459
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I have doubts about the AC in Cork. The human constitution is just not designed to handle unrelenting waves of Irish hospitality. We are not taking about the 505 worlds at HISC before the club was mod

Cork Harbour is in the People’s Republic of Cork which is an entirely different state (of mind) to the rest of the country! As much as I would love to see the AC come to Cork I’d have to ask why is

Let me get this straight: so, the Irish government would have to front expenses for 99MNZ$ = 60M€, plus forking out 60M€ more to a foreign, private entity with a record of dodgy accounting. This, whil

Posted Images

I've read the LiveSailDie Article and even they say that Auckland is unlikely. The Herald in their Article over the Weekend even mentioned Auckland anymore yet here on SA we have these obscure people like @Stingray~who has been wrong every single time. I know him from the 2007 Forums and it's Aftermath and he made lots of enemies there as well. Stop grasping at straws I would say. His name should be spinray not stingray!

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

What happened to the rules governing built in the country of origin of the participating syndicate.
Fuck this AC circus is employing more clowns by the day.

hence my earlier post re 'committees', it'll be a camel before you know it

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I've read the LiveSailDie Article and even they say that Auckland is unlikely. The Herald in their Article over the Weekend even mentioned Auckland anymore yet here on SA we have these obscure people like @Stingray~who has been wrong every single time. I know him from the 2007 Forums and it's Aftermath and he made lots of enemies there as well. Stop grasping at straws I would say. His name should be spinray not stingray!

Looking at what is washing out of the Cork pitch to host AC37 with the stem to stern porkies and misconceptions the leprechauns are labouring under Aucklands terms and conditions look quite solid.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Looking at what is washing out of the Cork pitch to host AC37 with the stem to stern porkies and misconceptions the leprechauns are labouring under Aucklands terms and conditions look quite solid.

Good grief :)  Please ignore whatever the hell that nutso dg has to say - especially about me :D 

But yes, it's interesting that more and more is dribbling out to journo's in Cork, especially the details about what the (not yet released) EY report is going to contain. Am keen to see it too but apparently some parties want details leaked, for whatever their own reasons are.

Irrc a very big part (maybe NZD500M?) of the NZDBillion conclusion the EIS done for Auckland was based on, was based on advertised benefits to the Auckland Maritime industry for expensive refits of about 170 Super Yachts, plus what they'd spend every day on groceries and such, for months on end, etc. Oh, and up to 8 teams, onsite for 3 years, and etc..  Maybe this EY report will be a touch more realistic.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

What defines constructed in country can be made an incredibly low bar by mutual consent, and only applies to the boats in the match anyway. 

 

As I recall with the AC50s it was just the bow sections built in country, which could be done in any moderately sized shed. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

What defines constructed in country can be made an incredibly low bar by mutual consent, and only applies to the boats in the match anyway. 

 

As I recall with the AC50s it was just the bow sections built in country, which could be done in any moderately sized shed. 

That is unfortunately true but I suspect ETNZ will want the definition of CiC held to a fairly strict standard, for competitive advantage if nothing else. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Slow boat to Cork, sounds like deja vu all over again. 

If anyone wants to take a minute to look it up, Ernesto/SNG held a venue competition that was pretty epic, culminating in VLC for 2007. This time it's more like the exact opposite, the Defender has almost no choices unless there's some surprise wildcard. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Ah yes. Forgot about that. Still a ridiculous number though

 

Well yes. It's standard AC boosting. 3rd largest event on the planet, billions are watching, yada yada. Ridiculous numbers are, apparently, compulsory.

For myself, there are two carriers flying Gatwick to Cork, Gatwick being the most convenient of the London airports for me. None from Southampton, which would have been better. Or I can drive/ferry/drive and that's probably what I'd do in practice, would need to price out though. If it's in Cork, I'd definitely go. Won't go to Jeddah or Auckland. Auckland looks lovely but it's just too far. Maybe to Spain.

My sense is that we aren't going to get a definite announcement on venue this week as Cork and Spain just aren't moving that fast. But we shall see.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume there's a fast easy flight or train between Dublin and Cork? Also, given the reputed estimate coming of tens of millions of hotel visitor-nights, is Cork actually set up to deal with those numbers?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I assume there's a fast easy flight or train between Dublin and Cork? Also, given the reputed estimate coming of tens of millions of hotel visitor-nights, is Cork actually set up to deal with those numbers?

As I understand it, about 2.5 hours by train and 3 hours by car. No flights it seems. Does Cork have hotels for 2.5M visitors in a short window? Don't know but kind of doubt it. 500 boats and crew into Crosshaven in the glory days of Cork Week maxed out the place. Cork is a small city in a small country. Nothing wrong with that, it is a lovely area to visit.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Even in 'AC-Crazy' NZ only 40K unique visitors (all NZer's) visited the event in-person, most of them from Auckland. Sports teams where I live pull twice that many for games, in the NFL it is for 8 games a year.  I expect the 2007 mega-event in Valencia did get a LOT of daily walk-up visits (it was free entry, 11 teams, massive setup, big city, with a lot of race days especially because of the big CSS. But 2.5M visitors for in Cork seems pretty-far over-optimistic.. Oh well, I suppose EY met the targets they were paid to meet :)

  

Not bad for a extant-COVID apocalypse. But of course, Auckland has has done much better - and I expect Cork could do even better.

"Based on the latest economic modelling, both the 2000 event and the 2003 event each generated around half a billion dollars of extra economic activity into the New Zealand economy, with the 2003 event sustaining a slightly larger impact overall than the 2000 event (which generated an extra $495 million)".

Economic Impact Study

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Not bad for a extant-COVID apocalypse. But of course, Auckland has has done much better - and I expect Cork could do even better.

"Based on the latest economic modelling, both the 2000 event and the 2003 event each generated around half a billion dollars of extra economic activity into the New Zealand economy, with the 2003 event sustaining a slightly larger impact overall than the 2000 event (which generated an extra $495 million)".

Economic Impact Study

Color me skeptical but some things are hard to quantify in absolute $'s. The yes 'sparkling' Waitemata and healthy NZ was an amazing spectacle. Maybe priceless.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Well yes. It's standard AC boosting. 3rd largest event on the planet, billions are watching, yada yada. Ridiculous numbers are, apparently, compulsory.

For myself, there are two carriers flying Gatwick to Cork, Gatwick being the most convenient of the London airports for me. None from Southampton, which would have been better. Or I can drive/ferry/drive and that's probably what I'd do in practice, would need to price out though. If it's in Cork, I'd definitely go. Won't go to Jeddah or Auckland. Auckland looks lovely but it's just too far. Maybe to Spain.

My sense is that we aren't going to get a definite announcement on venue this week as Cork and Spain just aren't moving that fast. But we shall see.

Road traffic Dublin to Cork can be quite busy in a normal week. No idea about air traffic. The general principle in this country seems to be to provide enough infrastructure to cater for about 75% of the demand. Or maybe it just feels that way.

Ask anyone who has attended Cork Week about the accomodation issue. The locals move out and rent their houses to visiting yachties, which is good for both parties, but at exorbitant prices, which isn't.

Depending on the actual numbers of attendees, it could be a complete, wallet-busting shitshow for an average spectator. Multi-millionaires will have a different experience but, hey, isn't that always the way?

8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I assume there's a fast easy flight or train between Dublin and Cork? Also, given the reputed estimate coming of tens of millions of hotel visitor-nights, is Cork actually set up to deal with those numbers?

 

There is a reasonably good train service from Dublin to Cork but see caveat above about capacity.

As for tens of millions of hotel visitor nights? I don't believe so. The hoteliers and proponents will say that's defeatist but they'll sleep soundly in their own beds, sure enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Black Sox said:

Ask anyone who has attended Cork Week about the accomodation issue. The locals move out and rent their houses to visiting yachties, which is good for both parties, but at exorbitant prices, which isn't.

Oh yes. It was making renting a Cowes Week crew house look reasonable. Don't know if that's still the case as numbers are way lower (even before Covid). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Oh yes. It was making renting a Cowes Week crew house look reasonable. Don't know if that's still the case as numbers are way lower (even before Covid). 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's already a market in Cork accomodation futures...

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, estarzinger said:

the newspaper reports it is based on '6 or 7 teams based for up to 2 years'

sounds realistic to me 

Teams cannot train in Cork 12 months of the year.  5 teams will arrive in May of 2024 - TNZ, LR, Ineos, AM & Alinghy.  They will leave Cork by the middle of August 2024 when the competition is completed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

CORK AMERICA'S CUP BID WILL BE DECIDED TONIGHT BY IRISH GOVERNMENT

0_cork-harbour.jpg

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-news/heres-what-you-need-know-24984071

The cabinet is expected to meet tonight and thrash out whether Ireland, which is now favourite to host the 2024 event since Valencia pulled out of the two-horse race over the weekend, should move forward to the next phase which entails further negotiation with the race organisers.

If the Irish Government advance further negotiations with the RNZYS/ACE/TNZ a formal Announcement will be made on Friday Sept. 17th.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I assume there's a fast easy flight or train between Dublin and Cork? Also, given the reputed estimate coming of tens of millions of hotel visitor-nights, is Cork actually set up to deal with those numbers?

 

tens of millions - dream on...feel sorry for the Micks if they do get this, they'll be well and truly financially kippered by the end.  Bit like hosting the Olympics:(   Mind you, maybe the EU will want to stump up:rolleyes:

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

From there

--

According to sail-world.com, one of Cork’s main rivals to host the 2024 competition, Valencia in Spain has withdrawn from the competition to be replaced by an all-Spain bid which has Spanish government backing while Jeddah in Saudi Arabia is also bidding to host the event.

Last month, The Irish Times reported that the evaluation of bids will be carried out by Origin Sports, a London-based sports consultancy, whose chief executive Stewart Hosford is originally from Cork. A decision and an announcement is expected by September 17th.

--

me: The 'all-Spain' bid is nonsense and nobody wants to go to 'Jeddah' leaving Cork the only potential bidder, and a possible Cork bid is apparently still weeks away. 

That means 'a decision and announcement by Sept 17' is completely meaningless unless the headline is 'Auckland it is!' Otherwise, it will be basically the status-quo 'We still haven't found any money..'   

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

CORK AMERICA'S CUP BID WILL BE DECIDED TONIGHT BY IRISH GOVERNMENT

0_cork-harbour.jpg

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-news/heres-what-you-need-know-24984071

The cabinet is expected to meet tonight and thrash out whether Ireland, which is now favourite to host the 2024 event since Valencia pulled out of the two-horse race over the weekend, should move forward to the next phase which entails further negotiation with the race organisers.

If the Irish Government advance further negotiations with the RNZYS/ACE/TNZ a formal Announcement will be made on Friday Sept. 17th.

Hard to pick the most unrealistic point, but the bit about the (green) hydrogen plant is laughable

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, Stingray~ said:

I assume there's a fast easy flight or train between Dublin and Cork? Also, given the reputed estimate coming of tens of millions of hotel visitor-nights, is Cork actually set up to deal with those numbers?

 

Plenty of accomodation in Spike Island, great view of the racing and home from home for some.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cork Harbour is in the People’s Republic of Cork which is an entirely different state (of mind) to the rest of the country!
As much as I would love to see the AC come to Cork I’d have to ask why is NZ not holding on to it if it’s such a money spinner for the local economy.

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chesirecat said:

Plenty of accomodation in Spike Island, great view of the racing and home from home for some.

With the way the navys falling to pieces there could be accommodation in Haulbowline and for a few extra euros the chance to charter your private mini navy boat

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lynch said:

Cork Harbour is in the People’s Republic of Cork which is an entirely different state (of mind) to the rest of the country!
As much as I would love to see the AC come to Cork I’d have to ask why is NZ not holding on to it if it’s such a money spinner for the local economy.

 

Very good point!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar at  Ireland to turn down chance to host America’s Cup : ireland (reddit.com)

 

Ireland is likely to turn down the opportunity to host the 2024 America’s Cup after significant reservations were expressed within government about the cost of staging the event, the Business Post understands. Well-placed sources have indicated that Ireland was offered the chance to host the prestigious yacht race on Monday after being designated as the exclusive preferred bidder for the event by Emirates Team New Zealand.

The team, which has responsibility for choosing the next host, is understood to have written to Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Simon Coveney, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to communicate its decision to the government.

The success of the Irish bid would have resulted in Cork hosting the 2024 event, which EY has estimated could be worth hundreds of millions to the Irish economy, but it’s believed the government is set to turn down the offer.

“It’s dead in the water,” one well-placed source said.

The decision is believed to have been taken at a meeting of the coalition’s party leaders and a small number of other senior ministers on Tuesday night.

Sources indicated that the government had discussed seeking an extension of up to a number of months to allow it more time to evaluate the economics of hosting the event.

This was regarded by those involved in the process as an impossibility, however, given the need of organisers to announce a preferred host venue this week. The government was aware of the timeline the selection committee was working to.

“The organisers wanted to announce Cork as the preferred location, so effectively Cork won the process but government wasn’t happy that they had sufficient time to fully evaluate the bid,” one person said.

It’s understood the Department of Sport was also opposed to the bid for the America’s Cup and harboured doubts that the benefits identified by the cost-benefit analysis prepared by EY, the professional services company, would be delivered.

The ongoing political controversy surrounding Coveney who had championed the bid, is understood to have complicated the bid in recent days too.

Coveney will today face a confidence vote in the Dáil as controversy continues into the hiring of Katherine Zappone as a special envoy to the UN.

Concerns were also aired about the cost of staging the event, which the cost-benefit analysis prepared by EY estimated to be in the region of €150 million.

The same unpublished report estimated that the event would deliver economic returns of between €400 million and €500 million. It estimated that 2,000 jobs could be created if Ireland was awarded the rights to the trophy.

The selection committee, based in New Zealand, met last night to discuss its options after writing to the Irish government on Monday.

The committee had hoped to announce Ireland as its preferred bidder to host the competition, the oldest in international sport. A source told this newspaper the committee was keen to host the competition in northern Europe for the first time since its foundation in 1851.

The America’s Cup, which pre-dates the Olympics by more than four decades, is typically held every four to five years. The winning team at each tournament gains the right to organise the next event, including setting the rules and choosing the host location.

Emirates Team New Zealand, which has won the last two America’s Cups, has passed on hosting the 2024 event and was understood to be enthusiastic about the possibility of Ireland hosting it.

Attempts to reach the Taoiseach’s office this morning were unsuccessful. A spokesman for Coveney did not respond to a request for comment.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

from Govt delays decision on Cork hosting America's Cup (rte.ie)

The Government has told the organisers of the America's Cup sailing race that it needs another six months to carry out due diligence on the viability of hosting the event in Cork.

The has been no formal response to the request yet but the expectation is that it will be rejected.

This follows discussions among the Government party leaders last night.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The team, which has responsibility for choosing the next host, is understood to have written to Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Simon Coveney, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to communicate its decision to the government

Just got a copy of the letter:

Quote

Congratulations, you have won the right to host the 2024 America’s Cup. Please send a cheque for 150M to our Nigerian bank account as token acceptance fee, and you’ll get back 500M in no time

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

"You have been provisionally selected as venue for the 37th America's Cup. Unless you send $50mm in bitcoin to this account xxxxxxxx within 3 days  we will announce your selection on worldwide media." 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The  Humiliation of Canossa, sometimes called the Walk to Canossa, was the ritual submission of the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry IV to Pope Gregory VII at Canossa Castle in 1077 during the Investiture controversy. It involved the Emperor journeying to Canossa, where the Pope had been staying as the guest of Margravine Matilda of Tuscany, to seek absolution and the revocation of his excommunication.

According to contemporary sources, he was forced to supplicate himself on his knees waiting for three days and three nights before the entrance gate of the castle, while a blizzard raged

image.png.30c9c3f94c7891ca376d438b2b41be1d.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah well. Might have to cosy up to... camels (or goats).

The sheep are now a distant, but still fond memory. ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ah well. Might have to cosy up to... camels (or goats).

The sheep are now a distant, but still fond memory. ;-)

I hear camels kick...

They certainly spit, but I'm guessing that's not the end you're interested in. You don't have to kiss the damn thing, just because she asks you to.

If they catch you, it's probably off with your head, depending on who owns the camel.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, accnick said:

I hear camels kick...

They certainly spit, but I'm guessing that's not the end you're interested in. You don't have to kiss the damn thing, just because she asks you to.

If they catch you, it's probably off with your head, depending on who owns the camel.

No wait. I heard somewhere that it's OK (according to the prophet) so long as you dispense with the guilty animal afterwards. Have I got the wrong end again? ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No wait. I heard some where that it's OK (according to the prophet) so long as you dispense with the guilty animal afterwards. Have I got the wrong end again? ;-)

You may wake up to find its head in your bed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No wait. I heard some where that it's OK (according to the prophet) so long as you dispense with the guilty animal afterwards. Have I got the wrong end again? ;-)

dunno, think it's more a case of who married the camel and if so it's probably off with ya head. Mind you try  that with aussie sheep and you'll encounter wandering patrols of troopers popping up 1,2,3, before you know it, they take a dim view of knocking some other blokes wife on the head and  gobbling it down over there,

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Xlot said:

The  Humiliation of Canossa, sometimes called the Walk to Canossa, was the ritual submission of the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry IV to Pope Gregory VII at Canossa Castle in 1077 during the Investiture controversy. It involved the Emperor journeying to Canossa, where the Pope had been staying as the guest of Margravine Matilda of Tuscany, to seek absolution and the revocation of his excommunication.

According to contemporary sources, he was forced to supplicate himself on his knees waiting for three days and three nights before the entrance gate of the castle, while a blizzard raged

image.png.30c9c3f94c7891ca376d438b2b41be1d.png

And now Dunphy and NZ gov will deal with him as Alexander did with his men, when they refused to cross the Indus, leading them through the desert of Gedrosia. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Priscilla said:

“Cindy it’s looking like we have become the laughingstock of world sailing have you got a bach in Wanaka the team can lay low in until the dust settles or Mark DunFay calls.”


9B21FE8C-EB42-44D4-B2FA-173A6444FF6A.thumb.png.bee9a6260325623f39182c0d5ddecd4c.png

I have a thing for middle-aged women in positions of power… I have no clue whether she will pony up the $ GD is asking for but she can spank me anytime she wants!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy shit

Does anyone want it?

An extension means that there are no credible bids as yet.

I'll offer €50 to bring it to our club

Pm me Dalts for full details!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Yes. But not at the price demanded.

That.s the bottom line - GD is getting greedy, boats cost too much so few participants, wheres the return except to the team guys?  Which is what GD or any of the other team 'leaders' are about to keep their nice little lifestyles intact.   Days of 'doing it for the country' are long gone sadly but that's the line that's always trotted out.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Lynch said:

Holy shit

Does anyone want it?

An extension means that there are no credible bids as yet.

I'll offer €50 to bring it to our club

Pm me Dalts for full details!

If you send it in actual cash you might just get it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Needs to meet this chap 

 

you welsh regularly fuck things up, that's made to appeal to stryans ( victoria number plate on car 00.59) good stuff that works is pretty rare over there

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

There's your problem - Ernst Young are involved.

Consultants who examined the Government’s bid to host the America’s Cup boat race in Cork said the event could cost “just over” €600 million before cutting the estimate back to €200 million-€300 million, The Irish Times has learned.

The sharp variation in figures provided in two draft reports by EY is understood to have damaged the Department of Sport’s confidence in the projections.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2021 at 1:03 AM, Stingray~ said:

If anyone wants to take a minute to look it up, Ernesto/SNG held a venue competition that was pretty epic, culminating in VLC for 2007. This time it's more like the exact opposite, the Defender has almost no choices unless there's some surprise wildcard. 

As per the Deed of Gift of the America's Cup the yacht club that holds the Cup is the one that chooses the location for the next challenge to take place. Alinghi, the syndicate representing the Société Nautique de Genève, the winners of the thirty-first edition, are based in Switzerland which is a landlocked country, so Alinghi put the hosting rights out to a competitive bid process. During a preliminary selection the bids of Barcelona, Palma de Mallorca, Porto Cervo and Elba were eliminated. The four finalists were Cascais (near Lisbon), Marseille, Naples (ITA) and Valencia. On November 27, 2003 it was announced that the venue would be Valencia, Spain. A new building, Veles e Vents designed by David Chipperfield, was built in the harbour of Valencia to house the central base for all the America's Cup teams.[1]

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My takeaway would be:

Even though Valencia have got all of the infrastructure from last time, and thus have a lot of sunk cost, they aren't interested now because they are still paying the debts from last time. So why would anyone else be interested? On commercial grounds they wouldn't. Only if there were a separate motive (e.. sportwashing).

Hence why from the start I have said no-one outside the ME will put in a meaningful bid

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
30 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Slightly misleading title in that there is no suggestion that Cork is willing to pay for it all, merely an assertion that the rest of Ireland doesn't want to.

But then there is a fair bit of rubbish in the article too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Slightly misleading title in that there is no suggestion that Cork is willing to pay for it all, merely an assertion that the rest of Ireland doesn't want to.

But then there is a fair bit of rubbish in the article too. 

WE NEED to cut off @Stingray~ Air Suply. Don't respond to any of his Posts. HE is just SPINRAY and spins things too much.

He wants AC37 go to the Courts so he can get his wish of an AC in Auckland.

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

from 

https://emeatribune.com/state-could-lose-e50m-on-americas-cup-hosting/


As he prepared to record a video from Crosshaven Yacht Club to promote Ireland’s bid to host the 2024 America’s Cup yacht race in his native Cork, Simon Coveney was being given wardrobe advice.

Suggest casual sailing gear if possible and if it feels appropriate,” wrote adviser John Concannon in an email to the Foreign Affairs Minister’s private secretary last February. 

Concannon, the director general of Global Ireland, the Government’s strategy to double the country’s global footprint by 2025, also suggested what questions Coveney should be asked to get him talking about “how sailing is in Ireland’s blood”.

The interview was for an internal promotional video linked to Ireland’s bid to host the America’s Cup. Last Friday evening the Department of Foreign Affairs refused to release the video, but Concannon’s message is one of dozens of emails and texts that were released under Freedom of Information. They show the strenuous efforts made by Coveney and his team to win support within Government for Ireland’s bid to host the race. They include two separate cost benefit analyses, which the department refused to release, but which the Sunday Independentunderstands show dramatic swings in the potential cost and economic benefit to the State from hosting the event.

A first draft of an economic appraisal conducted by consultants at EY showed that in a central scenario the Government could end up spending nearly €500m to host the event but derive no net economic benefit. In fact, this scenario showed the State losing just under €50m.

Nonetheless intense efforts have been under way since the start of the year to try and bring the the 37th America’s Cup to Ireland in three years’ time with Coveney and Concannon leading the charge.

“The America’s Cup is an iconic international sporting event, regarded as the pinnacle of sailing and maritime sport, was first contested in 1851 making it the oldest trophy in international sport, predating the modern Olympic Games by 45 years,” Concannon wrote in one email to two senior Department of Foreign Affairs officials last March.

While a decision on a host venue had been due in mid-September, the cup holder, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron, delayed its announcement to allow those shortlisted including Ireland, Spain and Saudi Arabia  to continue to work through their bids. Prior to that announcement, the Irish Government told the organisers it needed another six months to carry out due diligence on the proposal.

But rather than finalising its bid, the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (TCAGSM) is now assessing whether it is worth pursuing at all.

“The Department is currently engaged in an assessment which will take six months and is aimed at evaluating the potential of this event before a decision could be made on whether or not Ireland should move forward in the 37th America’s Cup host venue bid process,” the department said last Friday.

TCAGSM refused to release hundreds of pages of records about the bid, citing the “deliberative process” clause in FOI law. But internal emails from Coveney’s department show that despite his officials working on this proposal since the start of this year, TCAGSM’s head of major sports events, John Kelly, only appears to have been brought into the process towards the end of April.

On April 23, Concannon emailed Kelly with details of “the concept of Ireland as a possible country for the 23rd America’s Cup in 2024”. Stressing the need for confidentiality, Concannon included the aforementioned promotional video, an expression of interest document and a presentation from consultants EY  all of which the department has refused to release. Concannon wrote how the bid aligned with the objective of the Global Ireland programme he leads and included the exact same line he had sent to his two colleagues in the DFA in March about the America’s Cup being “an iconic international sporting event, regarded as the pinnacle of sailing and maritime sport”.

For his part, Coveney has a personal interest in sailing. He sailed around the world as part of the Sail Chernobyl Project in 1998. His brother, the Greencore CEO Patrick Coveney, chairs Irish Sailing’s Olympic Steering Group (OSG) and is a director of the Irish Sailing Foundation. According to one email from Concannon, it was the Fine Gael deputy leader who secured the services of EY to prepare an expression of interest document on a pro bono basis.

Emails from April and May show meetings being set up to brief the chiefs of staff to the Taoiseach and Tánaiste, Deirdre Gillane and Brian Murphy, respectively. One email from mid-May shows Coveney’s special adviser Laura McGonigle writing to Gillane and Murphy with an update on the bid on foot of a request from Coveney. “As yet there has been no final decision on the competition moving outside of NZ, but hoping that decision is taken very shortly. All of the indications are that this is going to move forward,” she wrote.

But privately there have been strong reservations from Coveney’s Cabinet colleagues about the bid. This is in part because of two drafts of an economic appraisal document drawn up by EY where the costs and economic benefits fluctuate considerably. Any country hosting the America’s Cup is expected to make significant financial contributions including a rights fee, a commitment to cover operating costs and the provision of required infrastructure, facilities and services.

The Sunday Independent understands that EY’s first draft of a cost-benefit analysis, produced in early August, put the cost of hosting the event at between just under €400m and just over €600m.

In the best case scenario there would be a net economic benefit to the State of €100m if the event cost just under €400m to host. In the worst case scenario there would be a net economic benefit to the State of €200m from spending over €600m on hosting the event.

But the central scenario predicted an economic loss of €50m from spending nearly half-a-billion euro on hosting the event. A revised draft was produced in September painting a more positive picture, with the cost ranging from €180m to €230m. The net economic benefits derived from three scenarios ranged from €35m to €200m, with the central scenario seeing the Government spend €200m hosting the event to derive a net economic benefit of €150m. 

“All that happened in the space of a few weeks,” a well-placed source said. “Sport didn’t have confidence in the numbers.”

Text messages between Concannon and TCAGSM’s policy analyst in the major events division, David Byrne, show the former was anxious to get the second draft of the CBA finalised. “Are we nearly there,” he texted Byrne on September 2. Byrne would later write back: “You have cba now. Sorry it took so long. The caveats in my cover email are important context.”

The cost will ultimately be a matter for the Department of Public Expenditure whose minister is Michael McGrath, a constituency colleague of Coveney’s in Cork South-Central but not someone who is known to have an interest in sailing. McGrath is understood to harbour reservations over the potential cost of the event. One email, released to the Sunday Independent, shows Coveney sending a series of promotional materials for the competition to McGrath on June 23 last. “Michael, these documents will give you an idea of the scale of what we are proposing to do to host the 37th America’s Cup in Ireland (Cork). It’s a big opportunity, but needs professional planning and management. Look forward to giving you a full verbal brief, Simon c.,” he wrote.

One of the documents is a glossy brochure replete with pictures of champagne magnums, luxury cars and large sailing boats. It includes case studies showing the economic impact of Valencia hosting the 32nd America’s Cup was €2.8bn  a figure Coveney would himself use in an interview defending the bid last August.

The brochure also points out that the America’s Cup has long been associated with “prestigious luxury, lifestyle and mainstream brands”, name-checking Louis Vuitton, Oracle, Prada, Omega, Emirates and BMW as recent partners. 

“Around 250 brands and businesses are involved supporting the event and competing teams as sponsors, partners and suppliers, and they all expect world-class facilities to be provided by the host venue,” the brochure states.

“The America’s Cup must deliver world-class hospitality facilities onshore and on-water to entertain these guests, and the host venue partners and stakeholders can use these facilities to engage with influential guests from around the globe.”

It also says that the “superyacht programme” will form an important part of the event and makes clear the need to satisfy those arriving into Cork harbour, should it be chosen, in their large boats.

“Up to 70 superyachts have attended previous events, owned by influential business people and private investors, seeking to entertain and do business in the host venue  powerful and important people ready to be impressed,” it states.

Coveney’s involvement in the project also included a briefing to the board of the Port of Cork. An official in the port company later relayed that they were fully supportive of “this amazing opportunity for Ireland”.

“Be assured the board and team will also fully support this project. I spoke to a number of board members following the call and all are very positive. Please don’t hesitate to pick up the phone at any stage if you require any more input.”

Emails also show the Irish bid team hosted a site evaluation visit for the organisers of the America’s Cup last June, indicating that Coveney requested Fáilte Ireland review the itinerary to ensure it was “all Covid compliant”.

Yet despite questions over the cost of the event and its viability, text messages between Coveney and a person that his department described as a “private Irish citizen” in August show the minister writing that it was “important to stay positive in public comments re the return and benefits for Ireland”.

Whether Coveney manages to convince his colleagues in the departments responsible for sanctioning the bid remains another matter. A spokesperson for the Department of Foreign Affairs said on Friday: “In relation to your queries on the current status of the bid, these would be better directed towards the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media.”

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

“The Department is currently engaged in an assessment which will take six months and is aimed at evaluating the potential of this event before a decision could be made on whether or not Ireland should move forward in the 37th America’s Cup host venue bid process,” the department said last Friday.

Wow.... Seems like a very long way off if it's going to be Cork?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Wow.... Seems like a very long way off if it's going to be Cork?

This is old news. Dalton has already done an interview immediately following the extension in September, think it was with Mike Hosking, where he addressed the 6 month time frame. He said at the time, that Cork wanted 6 months, which was too long for them so they were hoping to expedite the process.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Gladwell claims Auckland is off because of NZ Strict COVID19 Policy!

85% Cork, 15% Auckland(fall back).  Protocol says June 2024 sailing.  The black out sailing periods are very appropriate as well.  $20M liquidated damages to break from AC75 for AC38 is an interesting addition to the protocol

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

85% Cork, 15% Auckland(fall back).  Protocol says June 2024 sailing.  The black out sailing periods are very appropriate as well.  $20M liquidated damages to break from AC75 for AC38 is an interesting addition to the protocol

Yeah, I think Cork will make this work in the end!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites