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4 minutes ago, Ex Machina said:

 Mate ! I worked for a billionaire who silently sponsored TNZs tenders one cycle and bought the biggest carbon spar ever made at the time from southern spars and his sails from norths to support the TNZ sponsors …he also roped Matteo into the fold and another major corporate sponsor that lasted 20 years . I think to this day only a handful of people know who he is and his contribution to TNZ , and he is from far away in the NH 

Great...one cycle.

We're now leading into the 37th cycle.

Like I said, billionaires come and billionaires go, but what do they leave? What do they really do for the Cup? What is the lasting legacy of the billionaires?

 

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I have doubts about the AC in Cork. The human constitution is just not designed to handle unrelenting waves of Irish hospitality. We are not taking about the 505 worlds at HISC before the club was mod

Cork Harbour is in the People’s Republic of Cork which is an entirely different state (of mind) to the rest of the country! As much as I would love to see the AC come to Cork I’d have to ask why is

Let me get this straight: so, the Irish government would have to front expenses for 99MNZ$ = 60M€, plus forking out 60M€ more to a foreign, private entity with a record of dodgy accounting. This, whil

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

My answer remains, and for you I will write it slowly:

They founded it, were the only participants for ages, hence kept it "alive" until now for it to be the oldest, still contested sports trophy.

The Greeks founded the Olympic games and were the only participants for ages too.

The Olympic games evolved from a Greek religious festival to the modern day Olympic games it is today.

The AC has evolved away from a billionaire pissing contest to the commercially sponsored competition it is today. Reliance on billionaire wealth was a blight on the AC exposed in 2010. 

The future of the AC does not lie with billionaire wealth. Which is why the billionaires who were once involved have left, and those still involved have partnered with organisations whose funding models rely heavily on commercial sponsorship. 

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Greeks founded the Olympic games and were the only participants for ages too.

The Olympic games evolved from a Greek religious festival to the modern day Olympic games it is today.

The AC has evolved away from a billionaire pissing contest to the commercially sponsored competition it is today. Reliance on billionaire wealth was a blight on the AC exposed in 2010. 

The future of the AC does not lie with billionaire wealth. Which is why the billionaires who were once involved have left, and those still involved have partnered with organisations whose funding models rely heavily on commercial sponsorship. 

Following your logic in the other posts and the example with the Olympic games, the Greek had no lasting impact on the Olympics. Yes, right. Get help. 

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

Following your logic in the other posts and the example with the Olympic games, the Greek had no lasting impact on the Olympics. Yes, right. Get help. 

Having history doesn't mean it has a lasting impact. It just means it is part of the history of the Olympic games. 
America was founded on slavery, but that no longer has any lasting impact on America now does it.

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

So what, and still much better than countries like France, Japan, Sweden, Netherlands, Malta, Spain, etc, etc, who cannot find the money at all. Plus in some cases lack talent or expertise.

And besides, there is a lot of foreign money in the deep pockets of all those egocentric billionaires. And also, you may have noticed that the world has become a big great melting pot, though perhaps not so much the Yaaht Clubs involved.

 

WTF do underfunded countries that don't enter the AC have to do with a defender that can't afford to defend?

A billionaire's foreign holdings count towards what exactly?

 

Just be honest about it and know that if Ireland funds a majority of NZ's budget, well, it's kinda Ireland's team.... Whether you want to see it that way or not!

Would the Irish flag go over or under NZ's flag on the mainsail?

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Liquid said:

WTF do underfunded countries that don't enter the AC have to do with a defender that can't afford to defend?

A billionaire's foreign holdings count towards what exactly?

 

Just be honest about it and know that if Ireland funds a majority of NZ's budget, well, it's kinda Ireland's team.... Whether you want to see it that way or not!

Would the Irish flag go over or under NZ's flag on the mainsail?

 

 

The team has been clear with their funding requirements. $120mil of which theyre prepared to fund $80 mil. The hosting fee is 50mil, which leaves a 40mil shortfall. 40 of 120 isnt a majority.

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Just now, Liquid said:

WTF do underfunded countries that don't enter the AC have to do with a defender that can't afford to defend?

A billionaire's foreign holdings count towards what exactly?

 

Just be honest about it and know that if Ireland funds a majority of NZ's budget, well, it's kinda Ireland's team.... Whether you want to see it that way or not!

Would the Irish flag go over or under NZ's flag on the mainsail?

Don't be so fucking pathetic, you Kangaroo...

 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Having history doesn't mean it has a lasting impact. It just means it is part of the history of the Olympic games. 
America was founded on slavery, but that no longer has any lasting impact on America now does it.

You plainly haven't spent much time in US.

Btw. Does Ratcliffe and the AM sponsors not count as billionaires involved in the cup?

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

You plainly haven't spent much time in US.

Btw. Does Ratcliffe and the AM sponsors not count as billionaires involved in the cup?

What has Devos done for the Cup? Nothing.

Ratcliffe? Nothing.

Neither have ever won it.

Billionaires are overrated.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What has Devos done for the Cup? Nothing.

Ratcliffe? Nothing.

Neither have ever won it.

Billionaires are overrated.

Ratcliffe might not have done anything for the Cup - that isn't his goal anyways BUT he is a pretty successful Businessman. Nothing had been given to him. He has built success on his own.

Billionaires therefore are not overrated. In fact, without any Billionaire there would be no Team challenging especially in the age of these highly sophisticated Boats.

BTW, Matteo de Nora is a Billionaire too.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

BTW, Matteo de Nora is a Billionaire too.

Might as well be a pauper for the money he has donated to the team.

Of course he has given some loans  that he can recall when he wants too,thus bankrupting the team.

A veiled threat Dalts has already intimated could occur if he gets pushed the wrong way.

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5 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

My answer remains, and for you I will write it slowly:

They founded it, were the only participants for ages, hence kept it "alive" until now for it to be the oldest, still contested sports trophy.

Funny how keeping the event going for over 100 years counts for so little among the small minded.

Plus it is purely the commercialisation of the event, on top of boats that they can't even have a guest seat on let alone helm, that has sent them in New directions.

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5 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

My answer remains, and for you I will write it slowly:

They founded it, were the only participants for ages, hence kept it "alive" until now for it to be the oldest, still contested sports trophy.

Funny how keeping the event going for over 100 years counts for so little among the small minded.

Plus it is purely the commercialisation of the event, on top of boats that they can't even have a guest seat on let alone helm, that has sent them in New directions.

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The team has been clear with their funding requirements. $120mil of which theyre prepared to fund $80 mil. The hosting fee is 50mil, which leaves a 40mil shortfall. 40 of 120 isnt a majority.

 

TNZ will fund $80M - who is doing that funding?

 

So, using your math:

$120M needed to race.

+$50M from the host to pay Dalton for... something?

$170M all in?                     Which actually seems kinda low.....

So, $170 - $80 (those bespoke NZ funded $) = $90M dollar short fall!

 

Is 80 more than 90 down there? You know, being upsidedown and all....

5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Don't be so fucking pathetic, you Kangaroo...

ummm.... OK. nice one, I guess.........

3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Billionaires are overrated.

I may agree, but you are a cunt from a country with no billionaires.....

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

 

TNZ will fund $80M - who is doing that funding?

 

So, using your math:

$120M needed to race.

+$50M from the host to pay Dalton for... something?

$170M all in?                     Which actually seems kinda low.....

So, $170 - $80 (those bespoke NZ funded $) = $90M dollar short fall!

 

Is 80 more than 90 down there? You know, being upsidedown and all....

ummm.... OK. nice one, I guess.........

I may agree, but you are a cunt from a country with no billionaires.....

Like his reasoning, none of his numbers make sense. The original offer, government plus Auckland, was 99 mill. The team came back and said it needed a minimum of 200 or it was on the plane.

Government, quite rightly in my view, said seeya, have a nice flight.

So, if the team now suddenly has 80 mill, that would leave a shortfall of 21 mill. Even de Nora could rustle that up with help from his mates, he has done it before.

Fortunately, it is too late for Auckland any more. It would require the team, especially the boss, consuming a large slice of humble pie. That will never happen.

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3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Like his reasoning, none of his numbers make sense. The original offer, government plus Auckland, was 99 mill. The team came back and said it needed a minimum of 200 or it was on the plane.

Government, quite rightly in my view, said seeya, have a nice flight.

So, if the team now suddenly has 80 mill, that would leave a shortfall of 21 mill. Even de Nora could rustle that up with help from his mates, he has done it before.

Fortunately, it is too late for Auckland any more. It would require the team, especially the boss, consuming a large slice of humble pie. That will never happen.

what about the $50M hosting fee?

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22 minutes ago, Liquid said:

what about the $50M hosting fee?

This seems to be a new thing after blowing off the NZ offer. Much like the 80mill the team now seems to have (according to 4), never mentioned earlier either.

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12 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Regardless of which country funds NZ's campaign, I look forward to how the country flagS will fly from a single national boat.....

The country that funds this event is expected to not question where it goes or have any naming rights. They will have no flag.

What they get is the most highly viewed sporting event ever held on earth. That should be enough for anyone.

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3 hours ago, Liquid said:

 

TNZ will fund $80M - who is doing that funding?

 

So, using your math:

$120M needed to race.

+$50M from the host to pay Dalton for... something?

$170M all in?                     Which actually seems kinda low.....

So, $170 - $80 (those bespoke NZ funded $) = $90M dollar short fall!

 

Is 80 more than 90 down there? You know, being upsidedown and all....

ummm.... OK. nice one, I guess.........

I may agree, but you are a cunt from a country with no billionaires.....

From the RNZYS website:

"The budget for the 37th America’s Cup varies little be it in Auckland or internationally. It comprises what we know are the costs needed in New Zealand for both the team $120m (ETNZ) and the event $80m (AC37) and this total budget of $200m has never changed.

Importantly of this overall $200m budget in New Zealand, ETNZ have committed to raising $80m of the total. Specifically the ‘ask’ for all the venues is essentially $120m but varying slightly for overseas costs such as accommodation"

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17 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Having history doesn't mean it has a lasting impact. It just means it is part of the history of the Olympic games. 
America was founded on slavery, but that no longer has any lasting impact on America now does it.

Wow, just wow. Have you ever had a look outside of Aotearoa? Have you ever had an interest into something different than your love affair with GD? 

Your statement about America cannot be more wrong, in fact it clearly shows your narrow-mindedness. So little knowledge about the ongoings in the world, especially after the year 2020, leaves me dumbfounded. 

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20 hours ago, Forourselves said:

How is it "Not right"? You're right, those teams were funded by billionaires, so what? What have billionaires done for the Cup? Nothing. If anything they've put it in a worse position than it was before, because while those teams were funded by billionaires, but they were also at the whim of billionaires who if they got bored they'd just close the doors and end the team. 

Billionaires who dragged the event through the courts for years, excluded all challengers and went off and had their little pissing match in ridiculous 90 foot monstrosities.

If NZ won't fund its own campaign, then investment has to come from somewhere else. Its really that simple.

Whats "Not right" is disrespecting the team members that have worked tirelessly for the team for years, disrespecting the legacy of the team, by accepting an unsatisfactory offer and guaranteeing a loss in front of a home crowd just to appease a few disgruntled SA trolls.

but you didn't mind Grant greedily slurping up anything that dropped from Billionaire Matteos dinner plate over the years did you ?nope,  so stop with the protesting.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Wow, just wow. Have you ever had a look outside of Aotearoa? Have you ever had an interest into something different than your love affair with GD? 

Your statement about America cannot be more wrong, in fact it clearly shows your narrow-mindedness. So little knowledge about the ongoings in the world, especially after the year 2020, leaves me dumbfounded. 

Look, all of this BS is irrelevant. When it comes down to it, you have a problem with Dalton. Thats your problem to deal with, not mine.

No one cares. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

He has a plan for his team. His job is to have a plan for his team. His plan hurts your feelings... again, no one cares. His team, and his country supports that plan.

The AC will go ahead regardless of your feelings being hurt over his plan.

Harping on about hurt feelings over Daltons plans is futile. 

So just stop.

 

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

He has a plan for his team. His job is to have a plan for his team. His plan hurts your feelings... again, no one cares. His team, and his country supports that plan.

No-one denies he has a plan, nor that it is his job.

Whether its the best plan, or an ethical plan are more open to question.

And clearly not all of his team or country support that plan.

And no, the plan does not "hurt my feeling"

So 1 out of 4. Grade E. Must try harder

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

No-one denies he has a plan, nor that it is his job.

Whether its the best plan, or an ethical plan are more open to question.

And clearly not all of his team or country support that plan.

And no, the plan does not "hurt my feeling"

So 1 out of 4. Grade E. Must try harder

Who has to try harder?

First of all, I never said his plan hurt your feelings. It was clearly a response to Ren. Not you.

Dalton has won the cup twice and done it without a billionaire run campaign, so anyone who thinks they know better than Dalton what the best plan is, is clearly delusional.

Ethical? Whats the issue? There are no rules or traditions being broken, so its not about ethics. Ethics is simply an excuse being used for your own point of view.

So again, moaning about ethics, when ethics aren't the issue is futile and irrelevant.

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I've just twigged who 4 reminds me of: he is just one of those pathetic kids who loses every argument but then ends by saying "my dad is bigger than yours".

In this case though, he loses every argument but then uses "but GD won the AC twice" to justify that GD is infallible and so 4's hero worship of him is justified.

(I note that the hero worship of B&T has gone a bit quiet though)

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4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I've just twigged who 4 reminds me of: he is just one of those pathetic kids who loses every argument but then ends by saying "my dad is bigger than yours".

In this case though, he loses every argument but then uses "but GD won the AC twice" to justify that GD is infallible and so 4's hero worship of him is justified.

(I note that the hero worship of B&T has gone a bit quiet though)

Lets see, a disgruntled, jealous little Sailing Anarchy internet forum poster like you, or a man who's run 2 successful Americas Cup campaigns and has the support of his over 100 person team?

I know which I'd trust to know whats best.

Spoiler: It aint you lol

 

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11 hours ago, Forourselves said:

From the RNZYS website:

"The budget for the 37th America’s Cup varies little be it in Auckland or internationally. It comprises what we know are the costs needed in New Zealand for both the team $120m (ETNZ) and the event $80m (AC37) and this total budget of $200m has never changed.

Importantly of this overall $200m budget in New Zealand, ETNZ have committed to raising $80m of the total. Specifically the ‘ask’ for all the venues is essentially $120m but varying slightly for overseas costs such as accommodation"

NZ puts up $80M and are looking for $120M (+infrastructure costs) from the venue - got it.

I'll ask again, when the venue is the majority stakeholder, will that countries flag fly above the NZ flag?

Personally, I like Emirates Team New Ireland

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9 minutes ago, Liquid said:

NZ puts up $80M and are looking for $120M (+infrastructure costs) from the venue - got it.

I'll ask again, when the venue is the majority stakeholder, will that countries flag fly above the NZ flag?

Personally, I like Emirates Team New Ireland

The flag of the country the yacht club represents, which is the Royal NEW ZEALAND Yacht Squadron.

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21 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

(I note that the hero worship of B&T has gone a bit quiet though)

I note the "speculation" they were going to show up at Alinghi has gone quiet lol

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The flag of the country the yacht club represents, which is the Royal NEW ZEALAND Yacht Squadron.

I'll give you that... You can stick your regulation sized flag where it has to go!

But if I'm 65% owner and $120M deep into a one and done team, you can bet my logo is going to be bigger than yours - a lot bigger!!!

I'd want the entire sail plan and 25% of the hull and apparel for my PR and marketing teams to go nuts!

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3 minutes ago, Liquid said:

I'll give you that... You can stick your regulation sized flag where it has to go!

But if I'm 65% owner and $120M deep into a one and done team, you can bet my logo is going to be bigger than yours - a lot bigger!!!

I'd want the entire sail plan and 25% of the hull and apparel for my PR and marketing teams to go nuts!

The Host fee is included in that 120 as it was in Auckland, so its really about 70mil. But yes, 120 total.

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20 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Host fee is included in that 120 as it was in Auckland, so its really about 70mil. But yes, 120 total.

Was GD ever a second hand care salesman?

Just 70k for this lovely car. And a mandatory 50k for a full tank of fuel. And if there is any surplus over what we spend on fuel we'll keep that for the car as well. So yes it's 120k in total but it's really only 70k.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Look, all of this BS is irrelevant. When it comes down to it, you have a problem with Dalton. Thats your problem to deal with, not mine.

No one cares. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

He has a plan for his team. His job is to have a plan for his team. His plan hurts your feelings... again, no one cares. His team, and his country supports that plan.

The AC will go ahead regardless of your feelings being hurt over his plan.

Harping on about hurt feelings over Daltons plans is futile. 

So just stop.

 

I'm glad that you can finally agree to my arguments, because you haven't rebutted any.
As for my stance re. GD, I couldn't care less. While he once was truly someone to look up to, he became a greedy grifter when he touched the poisoned chalice.

If there are any hurt feelings on my side, they are for the America's Cup that is held hostage by these people, and AKL/NZL that deserve a Cup regatta that lives up to the promises made and broken with AC36. But I won't lose any sleep over both, so don't worry about my assumed hurt feelings.

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

but you didn't mind Grant greedily slurping up anything that dropped from Billionaire Matteos dinner plate over the years did you ?nope,  so stop with the protesting.

This seems to be a common misconception. Matteo doesn't hand out much free money to the team. He has however arranged some from his mates in previous years, this was at a time the team was about to fold.

What money he has loaned is used as a fish hook to protect Dalton from a hostile take over.

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1 hour ago, Liquid said:

I'll give you that... You can stick your regulation sized flag where it has to go!

But if I'm 65% owner and $120M deep into a one and done team, you can bet my logo is going to be bigger than yours - a lot bigger!!!

I'd want the entire sail plan and 25% of the hull and apparel for my PR and marketing teams to go nuts!

The major sponsor is still Emirates and they will continue with having their name the most prominent. However they are not supplying cash, most likely due to performance clauses broken due to covid.

This is why the team needs the venue to supply all the money. No way a new sponsor would front the cash so Emirates can take the spotlight.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

The Host fee is included in that 120 as it was in Auckland, so its really about 70mil. But yes, 120 total.

Yet when the 99mill was turned down, the claim was the number needed to be 200 for the event and team to stay.

When did this suddenly drop to 120? A measly 20mill? Surely that could have been found somewhere.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Yet when the 99mill was turned down, the claim was the number needed to be 200 for the event and team to stay.

When did this suddenly drop to 120? A measly 20mill? Surely that could have been found somewhere.

What 99 mil? There was no 99 mil. It was more like 30. 
The total number is 200, 80 of which ETNZ are prepared raise themselves as theyve said. That leaves 120, of which includes the host agreement fee, as it did in Auckland. 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What 99 mil? There was no 99 mil. It was more like 30. 
The total number is 200, 80 of which ETNZ are prepared raise themselves as theyve said. That leaves 120, of which includes the host agreement fee, as it did in Auckland. 

That 99 is looking better and better as the days stretch into years.

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2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

I'm glad that you can finally agree to my arguments, because you haven't rebutted any.
As for my stance re. GD, I couldn't care less. While he once was truly someone to look up to, he became a greedy grifter when he touched the poisoned chalice.

If there are any hurt feelings on my side, they are for the America's Cup that is held hostage by these people, and AKL/NZL that deserve a Cup regatta that lives up to the promises made and broken with AC36. But I won't lose any sleep over both, so don't worry about my assumed hurt feelings.

You havent produced any arguments that have substance, just vague, subjective, personalised so called ethics violations that have no basis or measurement in reality - hence your feelings being hurt. There are no rules or traditions being broken. The governing document does not state the Cup must be held anywhere. Therefor the only argument left is Kiwi taxpayer money of which has already returned. So the taxpayer money issue is alo moot because the Team has returned and exceeded that investment multiple times. So again it goes back to hurt feelings, whether yours or the perceived hurt feelings of Kiwis, which always goes away by race time. So all your arguments have been debunked apart from your hurt feelings.

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

You havent produced any arguments that have substance, just vague, subjective, personalised so called ethics violations that have no basis or measurement in reality - hence your feelings being hurt. There are no rules or traditions being broken. The governing document does not state the Cup must be held anywhere. Therefor the only argument left is Kiwi taxpayer money of which has already returned. So the taxpayer money issue is alo moot because the Team has returned and exceeded that investment multiple times. So again it goes back to hurt feelings, whether yours or the perceived hurt feelings of Kiwis, which always goes away by race time. So all your arguments have been debunked apart from your hurt feelings.

Why are you replying to my posts. You haven't read them apparently. I haven't mentioned the venue selection at all, why do you bring it up again? 

We were arguing about Bs, about Greeks and the Olympics and the meaning of slavery for today's America. Obviously you agreed to my posts, thanks. Or, you haven't read them. 

If you want to change the subject again, because you're running out of arguments as so often, nope, I won't discuss the venue selections with you again. I'm out, have a nice day. 

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20 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What 99 mil? There was no 99 mil. It was more like 30. 
The total number is 200, 80 of which ETNZ are prepared raise themselves as theyve said. That leaves 120, of which includes the host agreement fee, as it did in Auckland. 

So if they had upped the cash component and charged market rental for the wharf space it would have been okay?

From memory the cash was 40mill. 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

You havent produced any arguments that have substance.

Therefor the only argument left is Kiwi taxpayer money of which has already returned. So the taxpayer money issue is alo moot because the Team has returned and exceeded that investment multiple times. 

Renmaus has written substantive arguments. Which you have not refuted with anything better than "GD knows best because GD is my hero and can do no wrong".

And then this lie about taxpayer money having been paid back. When the report says you are still $156.1 million short of achieving that for AC 36. That's quite a shortfall

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.majorevents.govt.nz/dmsdocument/15674-36th-americas-cup-impact-evaluation-report%23:~:text%3DThis%20evaluation%20has%20identified%20a,%2Dcost%20ratio%20of%200.79).&ved=2ahUKEwiZ87nuipn1AhVGTsAKHSmHBCIQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw1qvyP3kcV0pWcY3alhmyIR

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19 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Renmaus has written substantive arguments. Which you have not refuted with anything better than "GD knows best because GD is my hero and can do no wrong".

You missed the - we won, you are all losers and haters.

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4 hours ago, Liquid said:

Deleted

 

Just now, NeedAClew said:

Yeah, haters!  

When it looks like a Gisshead, and it smells like Pissy, then it is a hater.

And your logic by comparison is baffling, btw.

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Just now, NeedAClew said:

Asking hard questions  = Being labeled hater

Did I say that? Asking for Schultz' grandchild.

Your logic is even more baffling...

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If it's baffling to assert that calling a person a hater isn't a common, often effective form of deflection, well...it is in certain circles. People have been asking questions about GD and NZ and getting called haters....

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39 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not worshipping at the altar of GD = hater

GD gets plenty of credit from me for savvy and such but it is ETNZ's approach as Defender and not the messenger/personality things that are debatable in the larger picture. 4 has the GD Cult mindset instead, for whatever silly f'ing reason, it is all about personal attacks with him.

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Renmaus has written substantive arguments. Which you have not refuted with anything better than "GD knows best because GD is my hero and can do no wrong".

And then this lie about taxpayer money having been paid back. When the report says you are still $156.1 million short of achieving that for AC 36. That's quite a shortfall

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.majorevents.govt.nz/dmsdocument/15674-36th-americas-cup-impact-evaluation-report%23:~:text%3DThis%20evaluation%20has%20identified%20a,%2Dcost%20ratio%20of%200.79).&ved=2ahUKEwiZ87nuipn1AhVGTsAKHSmHBCIQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw1qvyP3kcV0pWcY3alhmyIR

Incase youve been living under a Rock, a worldwide pandemic impacted the last cup. Otherwise the return would have been satisfactory again. Just as it has been in the past.

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54 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not worshipping at the altar of GD = hater

No, writing posts like “Anywhere but NZ, anything but Kiws, ETNZ is dead” = hater

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

GD gets plenty of credit from me for savvy and such but it is ETNZ's approach as Defender and not the messenger/personality things that are debatable in the larger picture. 4 has the GD Cult mindset instead, for whatever silly f'ing reason, it is all about personal attacks with him.

Thats where youre wrong. I dont attack anyone unless they attack me. 

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

There is no 99

Not anymore. I don't understand why the worlds greatest salesman couldn't have taken the 99 and then done what he is supposed to be so good at and raise the rest. Going outside isn't an argument since he hasn't gotten one red cent.

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Incase youve been living under a Rock, a worldwide pandemic impacted the last cup. Otherwise the return would have been satisfactory again. Just as it has been in the past.

Wasn't there a billion viewers? In any other realm that would make it easy to sell for the next Cup. How much does the NFL generate on a fraction of a billion viewers?

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On TE's Sailing Illustrated Show he today alluded to a One Hears rumor that somebody additional is now also lining up with money to call GD's hand, to force GD to keep the Cup in NZ; and/or to come clean and clarify the finance details. 

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16 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If it's baffling to assert that calling a person a hater isn't a common, often effective form of deflection, well...it is in certain circles. People have been asking questions about GD and NZ and getting called haters....

All very well, but you just don't get what I'm saying, my dear.

Never mind that, but may I assert that this AC cesspit is more like a sandpit, with 2 year olds throwing sand in each others eyes, and bashing their little shovels on each others sculls. And already gang-banging like pre-school bullies.

We are all little haters on SA, but some more than others, and just a few intolarable so, who never bring any real content either.

I don't necessarily hate those cunts, I just put them on ignore. It irritates me if people whom I normaly respect, then quote and agree with the ignored Intolarables Miserables.

That's all, Claro?

 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

On TE's Sailing Illustrated Show he today alluded to a One Hears rumor that somebody additional is now also lining up with money to call GD's hand, to force GD to keep the Cup in NZ; and/or to come clean and clarify the finance details. 

I don't buy anything TE says. He is becoming unwatchable and is deluded as you are.

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

On TE's Sailing Illustrated Show he today alluded to a One Hears rumor that somebody additional is now also lining up with money to call GD's hand, to force GD to keep the Cup in NZ; and/or to come clean and clarify the finance details. 

So he's obviously no longer inviting Dunphy on his show lol

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12 hours ago, Gissie said:

This seems to be a common misconception. Matteo doesn't hand out much free money to the team. He has however arranged some from his mates in previous years, this was at a time the team was about to fold.

What money he has loaned is used as a fish hook to protect Dalton from a hostile take over.

Sorry I should have clarified, it’s those loans that GD is now using as leverage “ oh if he calls them in we are sunk”  so give us more money.. 

how do you get in a position as the greatest fundraiser the world has seen to be on the hook to a billionaire and still be wondering where the cash is coming from having burned through hundreds and hundreds of millions of other peoples money and still think you deserve more string free cash 

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8 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Incase youve been living under a Rock, a worldwide pandemic impacted the last cup. Otherwise the return would have been satisfactory again. Just as it has been in the past.

But that's irrelevant. You said that NZ had already got back it's investment many times over. That is simply untrue. They are $155.1m down. $31 for every man woman and child in NZ. Listing specious reasons for that is irrelevant and is just deflection from the untruth you got called on

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Sorry I should have clarified, it’s those loans that GD is now using as leverage “ oh if he calls them in we are sunk”  so give us more money.. 

how do you get in a position as the greatest fundraiser the world has seen to be on the hook to a billionaire and still be wondering where the cash is coming from having burned through hundreds and hundreds of millions of other peoples money and still think you deserve more string free cash 

I spent a short time working for an Italian that thought he was much richer than he was. Lived in a memory of what his family used to be. Nora is happy everyone thinks he is the billionaire behind the team without shelling out the cash.  

As for Dalton, who knows. Is it win three or set it up so no one can change the format for 100 years. Maybe both. I certainly no longer care.

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21 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

But that's irrelevant. You said that NZ had already got back it's investment many times over. That is simply untrue. They are $155.1m down. $31 for every man woman and child in NZ. Listing specious reasons for that is irrelevant and is just deflection from the untruth you got called on

I think NZ did get its investment, just not always in a monetary way.

The country was sold 'bring the cup back home'. Which finally happened and the country was proud.

We were sold the underdog defence, again the country was proud.

All was good.

Then we had the double the monetary offer or we will fuck off. All while lots of people were hurting big time.

Talk about miss read the room.

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38 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I think NZ did get its investment, just not always in a monetary way.

We were sold the underdog defence, again the country was proud.

All was good.

 

They allowed for non-financial benefits of you all feeling proud and happy And still ended up $151m short.

Interesting question, which would kiwis prefer:

$167 in your personal bank account right now, or an absolute  guarantee right now that you will win AC37?

And if that is an easy question to answer (in either direction) how much value would you place on it?

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Just now, enigmatically2 said:

And if that is an easy question to answer (in either direction) how much value would you place on it?

And if my aunti had balls, I would tell that pommy bastard of an uncle to fuck right off with his silly questions.

Howzat !

 

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

But that's irrelevant. You said that NZ had already got back it's investment many times over. That is simply untrue. They are $155.1m down. $31 for every man woman and child in NZ. Listing specious reasons for that is irrelevant and is just deflection from the untruth you got called on

Its not untrue.

Every other cycle it has, AC36 it didn't. Why? A global pandemic. Thats the difference, and why the approach this time, and the situation is different, which is why the AC can not be held in NZ.

I can't help that you think the pandemic is fake, thats your problem. But the many people who have died of it, proves otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Its not untrue.

Every other cycle it has, AC36 it didn't. Why? A global pandemic. Thats the difference, and why the approach this time, and the situation is different, which is why the AC can not be held in NZ.

I can't help that you think the pandemic is fake, thats your problem. But the many people who have died of it, proves otherwise.

Stop with your ridiculous strawmans. Wherever have in any way suggested I don't believe in the pandemic?

NZ did not get their money back from AC36. You said they did. They didn't.

The reason is irrelevant

 

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10 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Its not untrue.

Every other cycle it has, AC36 it didn't. Why? A global pandemic. Thats the difference, and why the approach this time, and the situation is different, which is why the AC can not be held in NZ.

I can't help that you think the pandemic is fake, thats your problem. But the many people who have died of it, proves otherwise.

With one billion viewer shouldn't it be easy to get the money they need? The superbowl pulled in 449 million in ad revenue from one game. It had a lot less than a billion viewers. The pandemic should actually be making this easier to get even more than a billion viewers next time.

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22 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Stop with your ridiculous strawmans. Wherever have in any way suggested I don't believe in the pandemic?

NZ did not get their money back from AC36. You said they did. They didn't.

The reason is irrelevant

 

I've always said the Government return was diminished in AC36 due to the pandemic.

At least now you're agreeing with me on that, and now you understand the lowball offer from the Government this time and then need to look for money offshore to defend.

I'm glad I was right again, and you agree with me now, after all that.

 

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If they had 1 billion views its an easy as pie sell to any new sponsor for a guaranteed bums on seats exposure.

If the AC was such a stone cold money maker and safe bet for investment then Jacinda would surely have ponied up the full amount for old grabby fingers

 

possibly 1 billion is a fucking stupid metric put out to inflate the 'success' of the event 

possibly the AC doesn't make as great a return as the same people that inflated the 1 billion would like us all to believe and the 'low ball' offer is actually reflective of the true value of the event

 

either way, tick tock..

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

If you want to be a troll, thats your problem, but the pandemic affecting the return is fairly understandable to those who aren't trolling like you.

 

FFS are you really this stupid or is it deliberate and yet you are accusing me of being the troll.

Did NZ get its investment back from AC36? "Yes" or "No" answers only

I am not interested in possible reasons, your shoe size or anything else. Just yes or no

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

FFS are you really this stupid or is it deliberate and yet you are accusing me of being the troll.

Did NZ get its investment back from AC36? "Yes" or "No" answers only

I am not interested in possible reasons, your shoe size or anything else. Just yes or no

Oh FFS NO. they didn't, which is the reason for the lowball offer from the government and the need to go offshore.

like we've been trying to get through to you THE WHOLE TIME, the reason is the same reason Dalton is going offshore.

Thats what I have always said, and now you agree with me. 

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5 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I am not interested in possible reasons, your shoe size or anything else. Just yes or no

Which is why you're a troll.

One minute you say you want to know why Dalton is going offshore

next minute you're not interested.

Troll.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Oh FFS NO. they didn't, which is the reason for the lowball offer from the government and the need to go offshore.

 

So why did you say "So the taxpayer money issue is alo [sic] moot because the Team has returned and exceeded that investment multiple times. "

Because you now admit they haven't

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hang on the low ball offer from the NZ gov is because of covid?

 

didn't covid effect anywhere else in the world then?

4,wasn't NZ the one country on earth that handled covid better than anywhere and was least effected by it? but now everywhere else is awash with non covid effected money so lets go get that? you honestly are peddling such a massive about turn in venue as a short term  switch blamed on a low ball offer from the Gov  that NOW has made Grant look overseas.

 

he was out the door looking for an overseas venue before the match had even been concluded, so don't blame the low offer for his change of venue attempt and current state of confusion

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40 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Oh FFS NO. they didn't, which is the reason for the lowball offer from the government and the need to go offshore.

like we've been trying to get through to you THE WHOLE TIME, the reason is the same reason Dalton is going offshore.

Thats what I have always said, and now you agree with me. 

Why do you think Dalton is having so much trouble monetizing 1 billion viewers? Shouldn't it be a slam dunk even for someone with less talent?

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