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Electric vehicles are a dead end


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Shaggy asking if someone can spell gets today's trophy.

The drive to create a self-driving car has nothing really to do with owners not having to drive the car.   It will usher in a paradigm shift in vehicle ownership.  If a car can drive itself to your do

Not me. I ask "What about the joy of a lumpy cam? Shifting to the gear you want? Shifting fast or shifting lazy? Etc."

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4 minutes ago, silent bob said:

Does a dead body in the trunk count for the carpool lane?  Asking for a friend!

NO , now IF you propped em up in the passengers seat ................

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5 hours ago, 4ktsb said:

Shaggy asking if someone can spell gets today's trophy.:huh:

To his credit he was asking if the poster knew a word, not trying to correct anyone's spelling.

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1 hour ago, Mid said:

what's actually dead is one person per vehicle .

What planet do you live on?

over 75% of all vehicles are single occupancy.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

What planet do you live on?

over 75% of all vehicles are single occupancy.

think about it  John  ,,,,

is it sustainable ?

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6 minutes ago, Mid said:

think about it  John  ,,,,

is it sustainable ?

Yes, it is. "Sustainable" means "it can be made to persist into the future" and the answer most definitely is "yes", because people want to sustain that lifestyle. The question is "what will society give in exchange for this convenience?"

Probably what we will collectively decide to "give" is to spend slowly on low-impact energy generation - Solar, Wind, Grid-scale storage - and eventually fusion.  And the distributed energy use - transportation, heating houses etc - will trend towards using electricity rather than by burning something. So, what we will "give" in exchange for the lifestyle that we want to continue to enjoy is some moderate increase in global temperatures, a few extra storms, a few $trillion in property damage, some additional extinct species and a few million excess deaths.

The brunt of the losses will be borne by people who are powerless and poor, which is exactly the same as usual, and the rest of us will go on sustaining the lifestyle that we want to live in more or less blissful ignorance, until some journalist produces a documentary in 2050 or 2090 or whenever, that exposes the thoughtless and cruel quid-pro-quo. Our grandchildren will watch in wonder at how backward we were (in the same way as we gaze in disbelief as they dig up 200 dead native children from a Canadian school field), mull on it for three minutes, clap the Oscar speech and then get in to their EV alone and drive to work. 

So "yes", it is not only sustainable, but absent an eco-dictatorship enforcing HOV lanes at gunpoint, it will be sustained.

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nope it isn't sustainable , as much as both you and I wish to continue to enjoy the sacrilege .

whether or not we like it , we will be forced to adjust . 

the falsehood in your discourse is sustainable .

we al know it's not , as much as we would desire elsewise .

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

What planet do you live on?

over 75% of all vehicles are single occupancy.

Exactly.  If what we do is exchange ICE SOV's for electric SOV's, we have completely missed the point. 

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1 hour ago, Mid said:

nope it isn't sustainable , as much as both you and I wish to continue to enjoy the sacrilege .

whether or not we like it , we will be forced to adjust . 

the falsehood in your discourse is sustainable .

we al know it's not , as much as we would desire elsewise .

Hmmmm - that's the problem. Ecology is a science, not a religion. The science gets lost as soon as the ignorant and indoctrinated start using language like "sacrilege". Science recognizes nothing as sacred, and the moment we do start to think in religious terms about the science and engineering, we open ourselves up to eco-theocracy dictatorship. Do you really want your kids denouncing you and proudly standing to attention as jackbooted eco-cops haul you away for putting plastic into the paper recycle bin?

We can have our cake and eat it too. Plenty of energy arrives on the earth every day. All we need to do is capture it and use it and carry on with the party! There's no need (any more) to use energy that arrived in pre-historic times and no nobility in personal or societal privation in order to please mother Gaia. Rock on, civilization! - just be smart about it and we can have it all - green planet, convenient personal transport, sailboats, food for everyone etc - we don't even need to invent anything fundamental to do it.  

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2 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

 - we don't even need to invent anything fundamental to do it.  

Really, we can use existing technology to replace coal and gas, plus keep up with growing demand from developing countries. All within the limited time frame we have.

:lol:

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Really, we can use existing technology to replace coal and gas, plus keep up with growing demand from developing countries. All within the limited time frame we have.

:lol:

Yes. Solar cells exist, wind power exists, lithium batteries exist, molten salt storage exists, mountain lakes tubes and pumps exist, wave and tide power exists.

Therefore, nothing needs to be invented, it just needs to be paid for.

Whether to pay for something or not is a political question, or perhaps a moral question, not a technical question. The "limited time we have" is enough, if we care enough.

 

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11 minutes ago, Wet Spreaders said:

 

Therefore, nothing needs to be invented, it just needs to be paid for.

 

 

Thinking out loud here.... Bezos, Musk, and few others are already making some investment here..  Of course not only will Amazon control what we buy and what we watch, also how you'll power it.

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1 hour ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Yes. Solar cells exist, wind power exists, lithium batteries exist, molten salt storage exists, mountain lakes tubes and pumps exist, wave and tide power exists.

Therefore, nothing needs to be invented, it just needs to be paid for.

Whether to pay for something or not is a political question, or perhaps a moral question, not a technical question. The "limited time we have" is enough, if we care enough.

 

Not so much money as capacity. Has the world got enough resources, let alone production capacity to cover present needs, let alone the new demands. I would doubt it, unless we perhaps just stop making anything else for the next 50 years. Except 50 years will be to late according to the settled science stuff. The talk is 2030,although that is sure to be pushed out as it gets closer.

The UK had a quiet period of wind, their wind turbines produced less than 1000MW out of an installed 20000+ for a week. They needed to even import from the EU. All covered by gas, cola and wood. So I doubt existing tech can realistically handle the jandal.

I am not saying change isn't happening, just that we are dreaming with options being offered.

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4 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

This just showed up on my F/B thingy. Have no clue if it's an accurate......thing or not.....

 

 

Screenshot_2021-07-31-18-05-02.png

They should call the local glider club and get a pickup and a familiarization flight.  Great place to fly.  2.5 hours would be enough time.

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12 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Exactly.  If what we do is exchange ICE SOV's for electric SOV's, we have completely missed the point. 

Humans have missed many points since forever.  That's why we are careening toward a global crisis of epic proportions.  It won't happen in my lifetime but it won't be long.  

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4 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Humans have missed many points since forever.  That's why we are careening toward a global crisis of epic proportions.  It won't happen in my lifetime but it won't be long.  

Said every old guy ever...

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Said every old guy ever...

Look, you can believe what you like.  You can close your eyes and ramble about EVs, the future of solar, etc.  You can hold hands with the world, pass around a bottle of Coca Cola and sing Kumbayah.

We aren't talking about a world war where idiots are killing each other for no reason.  We aren't talking about a volcano or earthquake in some remote region.  We aren't talking about some pesky virus killing a few million people.

We are talking not about the end of the world, the globe will survive.  We are talking about the well deserved end of humanity.  Since the first humanoid walked upright, people have generally been assholes.  Sure, they've had some fine moments, but they were fleeting.  The only  human behavior that has lasted, propagated and prospered since the beginning is the 'fuck you, I got mine and I'm coming for yours' attitude.  The few humans that behave otherwise are an insignificant drop in the bucket in a sea of greed and selfishness.  

Of course there is no god, no sky fairy, no guiding spirit to shepherd us along.  Humans have stumbled through life making it up as we go along and we are doing a shitty job of it.  It's probably not our fault, we are just made that way and we can't be something we aren't.  There have been many chances for humans to make different decisions, take different paths.  At practically every crossroads the wrong path was chosen.  You can only make bad decisions so long, we can not delude ourselves forever and now the time is coming to pay the price.  

In the grand scheme of things, it isn't a tragedy.  It is merely the inevitable outcome.  Nature has no feelings, no empathy, it's neutral, neither evil or good.  The only significance we have is to each other.  We aren't the leaders or in control of anything.  The earth will get along fine without us as will the universe.  There isn't anybody or anything in the cosmos to miss us.  We had our chance, we blew it.  Probably there was never a chance, just a bunch of random events and behaviors, like rolling dice repeatedly and see what happens.  

Because we have brains we deluded ourselves into thinking we could shape and control things.  In the grand scheme of things, we probably don't know shit, only our own pitiful needs.  And at some point in the foreseeable future it will all fall apart.  Nobody should be surprised, angry, sorry or anything else.  Why should it end any other way? We are only significant because we live in our isolated, delusional world.  When we die we're dead.  Whether we die of cancer, an accident or collective human stupidity it really doesn't matter.  Whether we die individually or en masse, we all die sometime, nothing lasts forever. 

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35 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Said every old guy ever...

image.png.2f8455bcc9c615caad5dc2e53e40becf.png

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2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Look, you can believe what you like.  You can close your eyes and ramble about EVs, the future of solar, etc.  You can hold hands with the world, pass around a bottle of Coca Cola and sing Kumbayah.

We aren't talking about a world war where idiots are killing each other for no reason.  We aren't talking about a volcano or earthquake in some remote region.  We aren't talking about some pesky virus killing a few million people.

We are talking not about the end of the world, the globe will survive.  We are talking about the well deserved end of humanity.  Since the first humanoid walked upright, people have generally been assholes.  Sure, they've had some fine moments, but they were fleeting.  The only  human behavior that has lasted, propagated and prospered since the beginning is the 'fuck you, I got mine and I'm coming for yours' attitude.  The few humans that behave otherwise are an insignificant drop in the bucket in a sea of greed and selfishness.  

Of course there is no god, no sky fairy, no guiding spirit to shepherd us along.  Humans have stumbled through life making it up as we go along and we are doing a shitty job of it.  It's probably not our fault, we are just made that way and we can't be something we aren't.  There have been many chances for humans to make different decisions, take different paths.  At practically every crossroads the wrong path was chosen.  You can only make bad decisions so long, we can not delude ourselves forever and now the time is coming to pay the price.  

In the grand scheme of things, it isn't a tragedy.  It is merely the inevitable outcome.  Nature has no feelings, no empathy, it's neutral, neither evil or good.  The only significance we have is to each other.  We aren't the leaders or in control of anything.  The earth will get along fine without us as will the universe.  There isn't anybody or anything in the cosmos to miss us.  We had our chance, we blew it.  Probably there was never a chance, just a bunch of random events and behaviors, like rolling dice repeatedly and see what happens.  

Because we have brains we deluded ourselves into thinking we could shape and control things.  In the grand scheme of things, we probably don't know shit, only our own pitiful needs.  And at some point in the foreseeable future it will all fall apart.  Nobody should be surprised, angry, sorry or anything else.  Why should it end any other way? We are only significant because we live in our isolated, delusional world.  When we die we're dead.  Whether we die of cancer, an accident or collective human stupidity it really doesn't matter.  Whether we die individually or en masse, we all die sometime, nothing lasts forever. 

As I said - said every old guy ever.

Not saying this as an insult. More a comment on life and how we change over the years. Mostly how we go from railing against the changes that are coming, then acceptance of our mortality.

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25 minutes ago, Gissie said:

As I said - said every old guy ever.

Not saying this as an insult. More a comment on life and how we change over the years. Mostly how we go from railing against the changes that are coming, then acceptance of our mortality.

I wasn't insulted.  Of course every generation experiences changes, large and small.  My paternal grandmother was born in 1901 and lived to see people walking on the moon.  I was born in 1955 and now I carry a powerful computer that takes photos, enables video calls and does much more and it fits in my pocket.

But all of that doesn't mean that it won't all end and I am pretty sure that it won't be to far in the future and it won't end well.  I am also pretty sure that mankind has lost it's way, although I'm not sure that it ever knew where it was going in the first place.  I doubt I will ever know what happened and I'm OK with that, and I am also OK with my own mortality and have been for some time.

Between the Ears: I'm Tired, Boss  

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The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the Sixth extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is a current event, and is one of the most significant extinction events in the history of the Earth. This ongoing extinction of species coincides with the present Holocene epoch, and is a result of human activity.\
 
This large number of extinctions spans numerous families of plants and animals, including mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and arthropods. With widespread degradation of highly biodiverse habitats such as coral reefs and rainforests, as well as other areas, the vast majority of these extinctions are thought to be undocumented, as the species are undiscovered at the time of their extinction, or no one has yet discovered their extinction.
 
The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at up to 1,000 times higher than natural background rates. The Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services published by IPBES in 2019 posits that roughly one million species of plants and animals face extinction caused by anthropogenic impacts.
 
 
Over the past several millennia, the average CO2 reading was 280 ppb of CO2...we now have readings over 400 which represent and increase of 120+ ppb. If you examine raw data on CO2 concentrations from core samples which is available from NOAA and other research sites you will see that following volcanic eruptions CO2 jumped 200 ppb and remained at those levels for approximately 5 years. CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 reached 425+/- 75 ppm, a level that will be this year or the next, barring prompt policy changes.
 
We breached the 410 PPM Threshold for CO2 in April of 2017. Carbon dioxide has not reached this height in millions of years. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 410 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings.
 
An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of irreversible catastrophic effects.
 
It is expected to take 300-400 years or more, for the earth and it's oceans to just partially recover from CO2. However it's expected to take at the minimum 2000 years - for C02 to return to normal levels. If we continue to allow the levels to increase over the next 100 years - It will probably result in the greatest mass extinction in earth's history.
 
 
We were seeing assessments on global warming in our Weekly Reader in the 50s in grade school. All those reports said if we didn't do something about CO2, if we didn't do something about it, sooner or later the earths surface temps would increase 2-3F, which could be the beginning of the end of life on earth as we know it. Global Warming scientists said in 1969, this is our last chance to do something, that's why Nixon established the EPA, but we still didn't do nothing about. The big oil companies knew by the early 80s, then the Koch brothers and big oil started pumping out global warming disinformation, pouring millions of $$S into disinformation yearly. Every decade till 2000, the Global Warming Scientists said, this is our last chance to do something. Sooner or later has happened and passed. The Global Warming scientists know, this won't end well.
 
The next twenty years of climate change is already locked into the atmosphere with no signs yet of abating, more to come. There is a distinct possibility that civilization as we know it will be gone before the turn of the century, possibly sooner, with the entire human species to soon follow.

If it was just humans that would not be so bad, just one more species to go extinct. But humans have already caused tens of thousands of species to go extinct in the twentieth century alone. Those numbers are now rising at an exponential rate. That works like one this year, ten next year, a hundred the year after, a thousand the fourth year, ten thousand the fifth year and so on. But we aren't starting at one this year, we started at one in 1902.

There was one mass extinction which wiped out 98% of life on this planet and life came back, after 90 MILLION years, but it was completely altered from what it was before. What was included in that 98% has never been seen since.

Then there is the 50 to 90% chance of runaway global warming - that's what we've seen the past few years. That warming causes the ice sheets to melt which causes methane to be released from the permafrost, less sunlight to be reflected from the darker water and the oceans to warm. All of these combine to add even more warming. Then there is the increase in forest fires which adds more CO2 to the atmosphere and less carbon to be sequestered in the plant material. Plus the droughts which kill off the plant life which absorbs CO2 from the air. All of these things and more combine to raise global temperatures to the point where it just keeps feeding upon itself. The end result is that OUR planet ends up like Venus with no chance of supporting life again. A 50 to 90% CHANCE. With that dire of an outcome I am not willing to roll dice. Are you? As Ed says, it's probably already to late. That is what your grandkids will see.

Nothing to worry about? Yea, right.
 
 
 
 
 
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@boomer Well hell dude, I thought my statements were a little pessimistic, thanks for the reality check!  

I am in complete agreement with what you posted.

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47 minutes ago, boomer said:
The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the Sixth extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is a current event.  ...    ...    ...
 
The next twenty years of climate change is already locked into the atmosphere with no signs yet of abating, more to come.   ...   ...    ...
 
 

 

You want the good news, or the bad news, first??

- DSK

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2 hours ago, boomer said:
The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the Sixth extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is a current event, and is one of the most significant extinction events in the history of the Earth. This ongoing extinction of species coincides with the present Holocene epoch, and is a result of human activity.\
 
This large number of extinctions spans numerous families of plants and animals, including mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and arthropods. With widespread degradation of highly biodiverse habitats such as coral reefs and rainforests, as well as other areas, the vast majority of these extinctions are thought to be undocumented, as the species are undiscovered at the time of their extinction, or no one has yet discovered their extinction.
 
The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at up to 1,000 times higher than natural background rates. The Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services published by IPBES in 2019 posits that roughly one million species of plants and animals face extinction caused by anthropogenic impacts.
 
 
Over the past several millennia, the average CO2 reading was 280 ppb of CO2...we now have readings over 400 which represent and increase of 120+ ppb. If you examine raw data on CO2 concentrations from core samples which is available from NOAA and other research sites you will see that following volcanic eruptions CO2 jumped 200 ppb and remained at those levels for approximately 5 years. CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 reached 425+/- 75 ppm, a level that will be this year or the next, barring prompt policy changes.
 
We breached the 410 PPM Threshold for CO2 in April of 2017. Carbon dioxide has not reached this height in millions of years. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 410 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings.
 
An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of irreversible catastrophic effects.
 
It is expected to take 300-400 years or more, for the earth and it's oceans to just partially recover from CO2. However it's expected to take at the minimum 2000 years - for C02 to return to normal levels. If we continue to allow the levels to increase over the next 100 years - It will probably result in the greatest mass extinction in earth's history.
 
 
We were seeing assessments on global warming in our Weekly Reader in the 50s in grade school. All those reports said if we didn't do something about CO2, if we didn't do something about it, sooner or later the earths surface temps would increase 2-3F, which could be the beginning of the end of life on earth as we know it. Global Warming scientists said in 1969, this is our last chance to do something, that's why Nixon established the EPA, but we still didn't do nothing about. The big oil companies knew by the early 80s, then the Koch brothers and big oil started pumping out global warming disinformation, pouring millions of $$S into disinformation yearly. Every decade till 2000, the Global Warming Scientists said, this is our last chance to do something. Sooner or later has happened and passed. The Global Warming scientists know, this won't end well.
 
The next twenty years of climate change is already locked into the atmosphere with no signs yet of abating, more to come. There is a distinct possibility that civilization as we know it will be gone before the turn of the century, possibly sooner, with the entire human species to soon follow.

If it was just humans that would not be so bad, just one more species to go extinct. But humans have already caused tens of thousands of species to go extinct in the twentieth century alone. Those numbers are now rising at an exponential rate. That works like one this year, ten next year, a hundred the year after, a thousand the fourth year, ten thousand the fifth year and so on. But we aren't starting at one this year, we started at one in 1902.

There was one mass extinction which wiped out 98% of life on this planet and life came back, after 90 MILLION years, but it was completely altered from what it was before. What was included in that 98% has never been seen since.

Then there is the 50 to 90% chance of runaway global warming - that's what we've seen the past few years. That warming causes the ice sheets to melt which causes methane to be released from the permafrost, less sunlight to be reflected from the darker water and the oceans to warm. All of these combine to add even more warming. Then there is the increase in forest fires which adds more CO2 to the atmosphere and less carbon to be sequestered in the plant material. Plus the droughts which kill off the plant life which absorbs CO2 from the air. All of these things and more combine to raise global temperatures to the point where it just keeps feeding upon itself. The end result is that OUR planet ends up like Venus with no chance of supporting life again. A 50 to 90% CHANCE. With that dire of an outcome I am not willing to roll dice. Are you? As Ed says, it's probably already to late. That is what your grandkids will see.

Nothing to worry about? Yea, right.
 
 
 
 
 

Were it not for the previous extinction events, humans never would have appeared.  I don't know why anyone thinks that humans are ordained to inherit the Earth, even if the next extinction is by our own hand.  Supposedly we've already had one extinction even due to fossil fuels. 

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15 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I don't know why anyone thinks that humans are ordained to inherit the Earth, even if by our own hand. 

I think the Greeks figured that one out a few thousand years ago.  They even gave it a name; hubris.

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On 7/31/2021 at 1:45 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

well if you travel long distance ,it'll be the recharge time,  who wants to wait 1 hour at a rest stop and have to do that 2 - 3 times a trip..  7 hour trip now becomes a 10 hour trip..

but fossil fuels aren't the answer either...

I took our Tesla M3 on a 500mi road trip. With a 3 year old and a 7 year old in the back a 45 minute stop to let the little demon spawn go apeshit in a playground was a must.

 

The car just gave me an excuse to stop.

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On 7/30/2021 at 9:55 AM, El Mariachi said:

I can't be the only person here who feels that 'self-driving' cars are like the dumbest fuking things ever made since the square tire?.....

2nd dumbest. The title spot goes to Dade County, FL drivers.

I like it when an autopilot can drive a boat or fly a plane better than I can and can't wait until I'm trusting some engineer, not the Florida Man in the car next to me, to avoid disaster.

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On 7/30/2021 at 11:55 PM, El Mariachi said:

I can't be the only person here who feels that 'self-driving' cars are like the dumbest fuking things ever made since the square tire?.....

ain't going to happen .

closest we'll get is

 

note the lead is driven manually

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3 minutes ago, Mid said:

ain't going to happen .

closest we'll get is

 

note the lead is driven manually

Still not too sure about this stuff. Kinda seems like paying someone to bang your girlfriend.....

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4 hours ago, El Mariachi said:

Still not too sure about this stuff. Kinda seems like paying someone to bang your girlfriend.....

It's all part of the grand conspiracy to dumb down the world.  First they came for my standard shift.  Then they came for my paper maps.  Finally they came for my control of my vehicle... 

Most people see it as a wonderful opportunity.  They hate to drive, they don't know how to drive and they are more than happy to spend even more time on social media and texting their friends.

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I have a rather long commute.  Now I have a car with adaptive cruise control and I love it, I use it all the time.  Sometimes I wish the car could steer itself too on the more boring bits.

I like driving but sometimes it's a just a chore that gets me to my destination.

If it's going to make the roads safer, I'm all for it.

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On 7/30/2021 at 3:30 PM, d'ranger said:

So this was some time back an article stated that businesses would have charging stations tied into the grid to use the combined battery storage to offset peaks in demand.  Not qualified in that area but since peak power is much more expensive it may well be viable - lower cost to offset the extra infrastructure.

electric F150 - uh, I get a shock when I look at any of them price wise.  A good friend who can afford anything decided to put a deposit on the Tesla truck.  For me, the F150 is long time paid for, will last for many years and suitable for towing, hauling crap or when I need to take a road trip, it's comfy as I am pretty tall.  For around town her car gets twice the mileage, once we go electric it will be the daily driver.

the electrics will last 20 years barring a crash so the cost will be over a longer time, plus the price will come down. I firmly believe you will buy a chassis with battery and drive system and then a body or possible bodies to fit on that chassis. imagine a work truck body that turns to a family truckster or small camper for the weekends. 

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On 7/30/2021 at 8:22 PM, Snaggletooth said:

P.S. thisse wholle threade hasse beene a 'trolle' ................               :)

Ime am stille thicke thissis ritte.............              

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On 8/2/2021 at 9:57 PM, Snaggletooth said:

Ime am stille thicke thissis ritte.............              

And that's sugar coating it.

sugar coated shit.jpg

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U.S. to Set Electric-Vehicle Sales Target of 50% by 2030

General Motors, Ford and Stellantis executives with union leaders are expected to join President Biden in announcing voluntary targets

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1 hour ago, Wet Spreaders said:

From WSJ today...

I'm out of touch, had to look up Stellantis

Damn French

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On 7/30/2021 at 8:45 PM, warbird said:

 

I carry a hand held GPS to verify my speedo. Volkswagen 3 under at 70. Passats, 2000 and 2008. Hyundai 2012, 2 under, Escape, 2015 2016, spot on.

It is a legal requirement.  No speedometer can legally read fastwr you are going.  To be safe for people who change tire sizes etc most read 3-6mph under at 65 mph.

 

Hence why you never tell the cop how fast you think you were going but let him throw out a number first.  As he will use the higher number.

Cruise control is setup the same way.  And depending on model has a 3-5 mph drift.  (Depends on how fast your car accelerates

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4 hours ago, peragrin said:

It is a legal requirement.  No speedometer can legally read fastwr  slower you are going.  To be safe for people who change tire sizes etc most read 3-6mph under   over at 65 mph.

 

Hence why you never tell the cop how fast you think you were going but let him throw out a number first.  As he will use the higher number.

Cruise control is setup the same way.  And depending on model has a 3-5 mph drift.  (Depends on how fast your car accelerates

Think you may have got that upside down.

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On 8/5/2021 at 9:29 AM, Wet Spreaders said:

From WSJ today...

and here is the word from the largest auto manufacturer in the world, doing it the old fashion way of building what people want instead of just overpaying for other brands to gain market share (eg Ford, GM, VW etc).

 

Basically the head of Toyota research also spoke to the US Senate this week outlining what many of us have been saying.

You have to solve all the infrastructure issues for electric autos to be successful.   Just saying it is better will not cut it.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/toyota-warns-again-about-electrifying-all-autos-anyone-listening

 

 

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2 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

Basically the head of Toyota research also spoke to the US Senate this week outlining what many of us have been saying.

You have to solve all the infrastructure issues for electric autos to be successful.

That's funny.  Toyota has been pushing hydrogen fuel cell cars - something that has far, far less infrastructure.

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Genus Homo has had a personal relationship with fire for about 3 million years, give or take. We used it to cook our mammoths, heat and light our caves, and clear space for our crops. Lately we have been using it to light our streets, power our cars and trucks, generate electrical power, heat our homes and barbeque our burgers. Within the lifetime of most people alive today, that relationship will end. Humans will stop burning stuff for heat, light and motion, and move 100% to non-combustion means of achieving our goals.

  • EVs for transport
  • Renewables for power generation
  • Electric heating, lighting, cooking etc in our homes

Humans will undiscover fire. 3 million years... and it's going to end on our watch... 

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44 minutes ago, slap said:

That's funny.  Toyota has been pushing hydrogen fuel cell cars - something that has far, far less infrastructure.

'Til they come out with a fuel cell/battery hybrid?

I mean, come on. Why not? Two engine systems would be sumpin'.

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1 hour ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Genus Homo has had a personal relationship with fire for about 3 million years, give or take. We used it to cook our mammoths, heat and light our caves, and clear space for our crops. Lately we have been using it to light our streets, power our cars and trucks, generate electrical power, heat our homes and barbeque our burgers. Within the lifetime of most people alive today, that relationship will end. Humans will stop burning stuff for heat, light and motion, and move 100% to non-combustion means of achieving our goals.

  • EVs for transport
  • Renewables for power generation
  • Electric heating, lighting, cooking etc in our homes

Humans will undiscover fire. 3 million years... and it's going to end on our watch... 

Next moon launch will be electric?

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1 minute ago, warbird said:

Next moon launch will be electric?

According to several other threads we are doomed.  Finding an unsullied planet is imperative. We will get there with batteries?

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1 minute ago, warbird said:

Next moon launch will be electric?

Probably not, but you have to dig deep for a niche application. It will take a little longer before we can snuff all the naked flames,  but I was going for poetry, not precision. I'm awarding myself some latitude...

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3 minutes ago, warbird said:

According to several other threads we are doomed.  Finding an unsullied planet is imperative. We will get there with batteries?

"Doom and unmitigated failure" to the doomsayers!

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2 minutes ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Probably not, but you have to dig deep for a niche application. It will take a little longer before we can snuff all the naked flames,  but I was going for poetry, not precision. I'm awarding myself some latitude...

Sonnets are sweet,

Reality realer.

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4 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

"Stop with the negative waves."

I agree. I'm getting a little tired of the reflexive negativity. It's not just here - it seems to be all through society these days from "Make America Great Again" - which starts off from the false premise that America is not currently great, which it was, is and will continue to be -  to the fear and misery associated with COVID - OK, it sucks, people died, I get it.... But on the bright side I get to spend a lot more time with my family instead of flying around the world, I can work in jeans and a t-shirt, and Amazon bring me stuff whenever I want. I learned how to fly a glider, I did some really nice woodwork including inlays and carving, my boat is polished to a shine and my honey-do list is finally under control. Life is good and I'm not going to boo-hoo because I can't spend $200 on a Saturday evening for a couple of steaks and some overpriced wine that we really didn't need anyway.

Life is good. The world is good and I don't give a fuck about Fox,  BLM rioters, crazy fuckheads with ARs in the mall. I'm good, my family is good, my business is good, my country is good (except for the Olympic sailing). Whinging negative tossers can just fuck off while I smell some roses.

 

 

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On 8/1/2021 at 12:46 AM, Ed Lada said:

Look, you can believe what you like.  You can close your eyes and ramble about EVs, the future of solar, etc.  You can hold hands with the world, pass around a bottle of Coca Cola and sing Kumbayah.

We aren't talking about a world war where idiots are killing each other for no reason.  We aren't talking about a volcano or earthquake in some remote region.  We aren't talking about some pesky virus killing a few million people.

We are talking not about the end of the world, the globe will survive.  We are talking about the well deserved end of humanity.  Since the first humanoid walked upright, people have generally been assholes.  Sure, they've had some fine moments, but they were fleeting.  The only  human behavior that has lasted, propagated and prospered since the beginning is the 'fuck you, I got mine and I'm coming for yours' attitude.  The few humans that behave otherwise are an insignificant drop in the bucket in a sea of greed and selfishness.  

Of course there is no god, no sky fairy, no guiding spirit to shepherd us along.  Humans have stumbled through life making it up as we go along and we are doing a shitty job of it.  It's probably not our fault, we are just made that way and we can't be something we aren't.  There have been many chances for humans to make different decisions, take different paths.  At practically every crossroads the wrong path was chosen.  You can only make bad decisions so long, we can not delude ourselves forever and now the time is coming to pay the price.  

In the grand scheme of things, it isn't a tragedy.  It is merely the inevitable outcome.  Nature has no feelings, no empathy, it's neutral, neither evil or good.  The only significance we have is to each other.  We aren't the leaders or in control of anything.  The earth will get along fine without us as will the universe.  There isn't anybody or anything in the cosmos to miss us.  We had our chance, we blew it.  Probably there was never a chance, just a bunch of random events and behaviors, like rolling dice repeatedly and see what happens.  

Because we have brains we deluded ourselves into thinking we could shape and control things.  In the grand scheme of things, we probably don't know shit, only our own pitiful needs.  And at some point in the foreseeable future it will all fall apart.  Nobody should be surprised, angry, sorry or anything else.  Why should it end any other way? We are only significant because we live in our isolated, delusional world.  When we die we're dead.  Whether we die of cancer, an accident or collective human stupidity it really doesn't matter.  Whether we die individually or en masse, we all die sometime, nothing lasts forever. 

Your paragraphs are really coming along Ed!

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On 7/30/2021 at 4:47 PM, Wet Spreaders said:

Cars will become more or less disposable items.  iWatch is another example - it has 1000x the utility of a Rolex, costs 10x less and is definitely not a heirloom. After 3 or 4 years it's scrap - toss and get another one with the beef to run the latest and greatest code, and the upgrades sensors needed to feed the code.

Short life, disposable cars are better for the planet how? And do I need that utility the Iwatch has?  No, it’s all in my phone.  I just need a watch to tell me the time and look good.  The Rolex wins there by a huge margin and lasts a lifetime so has a lower all up cost too.  
 

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@Melibobwill be along shortly to explain Dictator Dan's master plan regarding EVs. Let's tax the folks for driving them! It's a bit like taxing reformed smokers because they don't contribute to the tax pool through tobacco taxes any longer....

Victoria passes EV road tax, effective from July 1 2021

It's done – Victoria is the first state to introduce a 'user pays' road tax, simultaneously targeting electric vehicle owners while also offering purchase incentives

The Victorian Labor government on Tuesday night passed its controversial new electric vehicle tax. The tax is described as a necessary first step towards a broader user-pays approach to road usage – the government reasoning that EV drivers do not pay the fuel excise and should therefore “pay their fair share.”

The Andrews government further complicated the situation between the time it announced and subsequently passed the EV tax policy, by announcing an EV incentive policy.

The EV road tax – decried by EV enthusiasts, various lobby groups and policy experts – places a price on EV road usage at 2.5c per kilometre. A separate tax of 2c per km applies to plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV).

The Andrews government says the tax is fair because EV drivers don’t pay the fuel excise – 42.7c per litre – paid by drivers of conventional vehicles.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/victoria-passes-ev-tax-effective-july-1-2021

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5 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Your paragraphs are really coming along Ed!

Thanks!  

It's nice to know my effort is appreciated.

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9 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

Genus Homo has had a personal relationship with fire for about 3 million years, give or take. We used it to cook our mammoths, heat and light our caves, and clear space for our crops. Lately we have been using it to light our streets, power our cars and trucks, generate electrical power, heat our homes and barbeque our burgers. Within the lifetime of most people alive today, that relationship will end. Humans will stop burning stuff for heat, light and motion, and move 100% to non-combustion means of achieving our goals.

  • EVs for transport
  • Renewables for power generation
  • Electric heating, lighting, cooking etc in our homes

Humans will undiscover fire. 3 million years... and it's going to end on our watch... 

Thank you for posting that.

It is a really interesting point of view.

Hmmm, pondering...

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On 8/6/2021 at 2:11 PM, Foreverslow said:

and here is the word from the largest auto manufacturer 

.....Toyota

FYI: VW has been top dog for many years.

They are no longer spending $ on combustion R&D

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

FYI: VW has been top dog for many years.

They are no longer spending $ on combustion R&D

If you read the first paragraph of the article, it stated Toyota and VW swap the lead all the time and that VW's growth is due to buying companies to increase its market share.

Ask GM and Ford how that strategy worked for them late 90s/early 2000s...

 

VW HAD to do something as their original strategy to push diesels blew up in their faces when they were caught cheating by screwing with the software and had to buy back 350,000 vehicles for 7.4 billion USD (eg Dieselgate).

 

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On 7/30/2021 at 5:23 AM, Wet Spreaders said:

I'm calling bullshit on this thread.

The new generation of EVs are faster, more economical to run, cheaper to make and all together better than gas cars. And they are less polluting, if that floats your boat.

Not only that, the technology is now in the hands of the semiconductor guys (the same guys that brought you Moore's Law and computers that double in performance every couple of years). With Silicon Carbide power transistors, new developments in motor magnetics, self-driving features and fast chargers that can get you from 20% to 80% faster than you can say "Grande non-fat latte", there will be no reason not to buy an EV. We are in transition and so there's going to be short term trade offs to consider, but long term the world is clearly and definitively going electric - any current controversy is just BS from mental dinosaurs and the last thrash of the oil companies trying to Philip Morris the gullible old timers into one more V8. Light up, grandpa, the rest of us will enjoy clean power that does not disturb the ambiance of our stereo, while you're turning down your deaf-aid as you crawl away from every stoplight.

 

100% this^^.  Come on in for the big win!

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On 7/30/2021 at 9:06 AM, ropetrick said:

Long haul trucks are the most likely users of the swap system.

Standard packs and connections then away they go.

Add auto driving to that and bob's your uncle.  Seriously, anymore, Trucks are limited so they only go 5 ish over the limit on the long haul routs anyway and slowing down on the hills.  You could arguably have an Auto Train going from 7 PM to 7AM with 100 ds of them in the left lane.  If they don't have to change lanes, well there you go.  Just drove over 4k mi cross country, so this is in my head...

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On 7/30/2021 at 9:56 AM, Rain Man said:

The drive to create a self-driving car has nothing really to do with owners not having to drive the car.   It will usher in a paradigm shift in vehicle ownership.  If a car can drive itself to your door, and there is a fleet of them available at all times, why would you ever own one?  In the future, you will use an app to order up a car, it will appear at your door, and then you can either drive it or have it drive you wherever you want to go.   

At the end of the day the car will drive to a charging station and charge itself.

Car ownership will be a thing of the past, except for some who just want to own one anyway.  The kids in urban areas are already doing this with rideshare and car-sharing companies like Evo.  Owning cars is expensive and we have already made economic circumstances difficult for young people.

Your only problem is Rural...  Like Atlantic Iowa and the nothingness around it for 500 sq miles...  Fed funded charging koisks??  And farmers, How hard is it going to be to get them off the diesel teet??  

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41 minutes ago, shaggy said:

Your only problem is Rural...  Like Atlantic Iowa and the nothingness around it for 500 sq miles...  Fed funded charging koisks??  And farmers, How hard is it going to be to get them off the diesel teet??  

The vehicles in the land of nothingness are not a "problem", they are an irrelevant anomaly in addressing the issue of ICE pollution. 

And I suspect that the ingenious "off-the-grid" folks will discover that wind and solar power are better options than hoping that there is a diesel vendor within driving range after the whole rest of the world no longer is searching out fossil filling stations.

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29 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

The vehicles in the land of nothingness are not a "problem", they are an irrelevant anomaly in addressing the issue of ICE pollution. 

And I suspect that the ingenious "off-the-grid" folks will discover that wind and solar power are better options than hoping that there is a diesel vendor within driving range after the whole rest of the world no longer is searching out fossil filling stations.

Frankly, the land of nothingness would benefit the most from EV...   How many DD issues are there yearly on those long dark frigging roads.. I assume automated farm equipment is next, then trucks, maybe visa versa.  

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On 8/9/2021 at 11:57 AM, shaggy said:

Frankly, the land of nothingness would benefit the most from EV...   How many DD issues are there yearly on those long dark frigging roads.. I assume automated farm equipment is next, then trucks, maybe visa versa.  

Automated farm equipment is very much "next". There's no reason to have a human babysitting a tractor or a combine that already has differential GPS that can drive the field to centimeter accuracy. Imagine too a small fleet of robots patrolling a field, identifying and pulling weeds manually - great for places where Roundup is banned and the farmer can claim "organic", boosting the price by 20% to soccer moms worldwide. A good AI bot patrolling a hectare or two a day could figure out where increased or decreased irrigation is needed, presence of pathogens, even use an electronic nose to smell soil microbe activity and call in a drone-drop of the right fertilizer in just the right spot. It's the next green revolution....

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