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The Committee to Re-elect The President


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14 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Your boy Shitstain isn't the President. Even your boy refers to himself as the Former President.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/trumps-office-of-the-former-president-opens-in-florida

Not my boy. For the umpteenth time, I do not vote for the duopoly. I tend to vote Libertarian Party and Constitution Party. So kindly do not keep trying to pin any of this on me sir.

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Then why do you keep trying to stir the pot with your little spoon? 2nd thread on an election that doesn't happen for 3.5 years from now. That's rhetorical, we know why you are here.

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I love it - they're re-using Nixon's CREEP handle.

If anyone needed proof they are dim, there it is.

I wonder if they will reuse the Nixon "used car" thing too.

                                     Would you buy a used car from this man?         

Why We Love Trump's Face | The New Republic

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13 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I love it - they're re-using Nixon's CREEP handle.

If anyone needed proof they are dim, there it is.

I wonder if they will reuse the Nixon "used car" thing too.

 

I always thought "Nixon's The One" slogan was curious.

What is your take on how history would have viewed Nixon if not for Watergate?
Took country off gold standard.
Created the EPA, signed Clean Air Act.
Started dialogue with People's Republic of China
Ended the war in South East Asia.
SALT Agreement

A lot of pretty notable accomplishments.

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why We Love Trump's Face | The New Republic

Very presidential.  Can't wait for TFG's reinstatement - to his room at the mental institution.

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18 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I do not vote for the duopoly.

The best thing for this country would be to break up that duopoly.  But they are too big.

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7 minutes ago, Jules said:

Very presidential.  Can't wait for TFG's reinstatement - to his room at the mental institution.

He looks like he's squeezing out a massive loaf that just keeps on going... Like a giant tube of Preparation H.

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4 minutes ago, Jules said:
18 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I do not vote for the duopoly.

The best thing for this country would be to break up that duopoly.  But they are too big.

?

Both parties are coalitions. They tend to absorb compatible... or less-incompatible-with-the-other factions and independent parties.

The biggest difference used to be that Democrats fairly consistently believed that the government should govern for the people, Republicans consistently believed that gov't should govern for the benefit of business.

Democrats have become more and more in favor of business, Republicans have abandoned any principles except hating Democrats. It's all about the culture war.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

I always thought "Nixon's The One" slogan was curious.

What is your take on how history would have viewed Nixon if not for Watergate?
Took country off gold standard.
Created the EPA, signed Clean Air Act.
Started dialogue with People's Republic of China
Ended the war in South East Asia.
SALT Agreement

A lot of pretty notable accomplishments.

Nixon destroyed himself. If he had come forth and admitted that some on his staff broke into the Watergate, apologized, fired those responsible, he would have earned a pass on the event. He would have been reelected, and ended up one of the top ten president's in history. Instead he rests at the bottom forever.

Yet don't forget his other problems.

He added an additional 21,000 dead American soldiers to the wall unnecessarily.

He used the FBI to investigate and ruin his opponents.

Selecting Spiro Agnew a tax evader, twice as his Vice President.

His Southern Strategy was racist.

He killed Allende, which killed thousands.

His policies contributed to the rise of the Khmer Rouge which killed millions.

He started the war on drugs which originally targeted blacks and leftist opposition to the war.

 

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53 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

?

Both parties are coalitions. They tend to absorb compatible... or less-incompatible-with-the-other factions and independent parties.

The biggest difference used to be that Democrats fairly consistently believed that the government should govern for the people, Republicans consistently believed that gov't should govern for the benefit of business.

Democrats have become more and more in favor of business, Republicans have abandoned any principles except hating Democrats. It's all about the culture war.

- DSK

Both parties cater to the big donors now.  Republicans are just bolder about it because their loyal base doesn't bother to look at how Rs vote and how it affects the base.  Biden works for the banks and always has.  Take a deep dive into any of them and see how they vote.  Most Democrats today are corporatists.  Easy money.

The big two run the elections.  That only helps them, not the people and certainly not democracy.   They have both participated in voting in new laws that effectively make bribing them legal.  I don't think that's in keeping with the intent of our Constitution.

The Democrats now do the wolf in sheep's clothing act, pretending to care about the people and promising to protect them against the big bad Rs.  But when it comes to voting or fulfilling campaign promises, they always fall way short. 

Both are working toward a plutocracy, oligarchy, corptocracy or any government where the rich rule and they benefit.  Just look at who benefits from the majority of bills they get passed.  If that sounds hyper-critical, look back on what the Dems did in the first two years of the Obama administration when they had a super majority.  See any health care?  Gay rights?  Campaign finance reform? And then look at how today, they feed us the bullshit they need Republicans to support the bills most of America wants.  They CAN pass bills but their big donors don't want them to.  It's got nothing to do with wanting to work with the Rs.

Don't judge them by their words.  Judge them by their actions.

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14 minutes ago, Jules said:

Both parties cater to the big donors now.  Republicans are just bolder about it because their loyal base doesn't bother to look at how Rs vote and how it affects the base.  Biden works for the banks and always has.  Take a deep dive into any of them and see how they vote.  Most Democrats today are corporatists.  Easy money.

The big two run the elections.  That only helps them, not the people and certainly not democracy.   They have both participated in voting in new laws that effectively make bribing them legal.  I don't think that's in keeping with the intent of our Constitution.

The Democrats now do the wolf in sheep's clothing act, pretending to care about the people and promising to protect them against the big bad Rs.  But when it comes to voting or fulfilling campaign promises, they always fall way short. 

Both are working toward a plutocracy, oligarchy, corptocracy or any government where the rich rule and they benefit.  Just look at who benefits from the majority of bills they get passed.  If that sounds hyper-critical, look back on what the Dems did in the first two years of the Obama administration when they had a super majority.  See any health care?  Gay rights?  Campaign finance reform? And then look at how today, they feed us the bullshit they need Republicans to support the bills most of America wants.  They CAN pass bills but their big donors don't want them to.  It's got nothing to do with wanting to work with the Rs.

Don't judge them by their words.  Judge them by their actions.

If I had not spent the last 6 years increasingly sitting on local committees trying to get leaders of civic organizations to not make stupid, destructive, decisions, I'd probably agree with you. It's been a maddening but enlightening experience.

Don't attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity. Of course almost all national-level Democrats are corporatists. It's who gives them money, it's who they talk to, it's who they see as their peers and their constituents.

However, Democrats are not blatantly harming their voters with everything they do, and lying about it.

Yet

- DSK

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Nixon didn't end the gold standard. That was FDR.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard

Before Nixon 'ended' the Vietnam War, he expanded it to Laos and Cambodia. Ford actually ended it.

The EPA was a non-Cabinet level reorganization of existing agencies. Nixon didn't sign the Clean Air Act. He signed an amendment of it which had passed unanimously in the Senate. The Clean Air Act dates to 1963 and was signed by LBJ.

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Just now, Olsonist said:

Nixon didn't end the gold standard. That was FDR.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard

Before Nixon 'ended' the Vietnam War, he expanded it to Laos and Cambodia. Ford actually ended it.

The EPA was a non-Cabinet level reorganization of existing agencies. Nixon didn't sign the Clean Air Act. He signed an amendment of it. The Clean Air Act dates to 1963 and was signed by LBJ.

The war was so widely unpopular, I am leery of giving credit to any one person for having ended it.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

The war was so widely unpopular, I am leery of giving credit to any one person for having ended it.

I would give the credit to Ford, he was the only one who didn't have a death toll, and it was on his watch when it was over.

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Just now, badlatitude said:
4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

The war was so widely unpopular, I am leery of giving credit to any one person for having ended it.

I would give the credit to Ford, he was the only one who didn't have a death toll, and it was on his watch when it was over.

So basically, Q U is trying to lie about 'Nixon wasn't -that- bad, except for the Watergate thing.'

Nixon was a fucking disaster on all fronts, hello wage and price controls? etc etc etc

- DSK

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16 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Oh?
Yes, you are right, simply to annoy you.

Now fuk off.

That pretty much makes you the typical Trump supporter right there.

If you could say something right now to annoy me, that would be great.   Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So basically, Q U is trying to lie about 'Nixon wasn't -that- bad, except for the Watergate thing.'

Nixon was a fucking disaster on all fronts, hello wage and price controls? etc etc etc

- DSK

Former Nixon aide, John Ehrlichman further explained Nixon’s drug policy: “By getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.” 30

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4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I always thought "Nixon's The One" slogan was curious.

What is your take on how history would have viewed Nixon if not for Watergate?
Took country off gold standard.
Created the EPA, signed Clean Air Act.
Started dialogue with People's Republic of China
Ended the war in South East Asia.
SALT Agreement

A lot of pretty notable accomplishments.

True - and his legacy is to be remembered as a crook and the only POTUS to resign.

Nixon was the most dishonest individual I have ever met in my life. He lied to his wife, his family, his friends, his colleagues in the Congress, lifetime members of his own political party, the American people and the world.

Barry Goldwater

As some people are also wont to say "As bad as he was, Hitler did some good things".

 

 

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

Nixon didn't end the gold standard. That was FDR.

Nixon ended convertibility.

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3 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

He looks like he's squeezing out a massive loaf that just keeps on going.

It's easy and natural when you're that full of shit.

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If it had not been for the anti-war movement, and massive mutinies among the troops, 

the US would likely still be in Vietnam. 

The militarists did not give it up until they were forced to do so. 

And Nixon the traitor also blew up LBJ's Vietnam peace deal during the election campaign of 1968. 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

True - and his legacy is to be remembered as a crook and the only POTUS to resign.

Nixon was the most dishonest individual I have ever met in my life. He lied to his wife, his family, his friends, his colleagues in the Congress, lifetime members of his own political party, the American people and the world.

Barry Goldwater

As some people are also wont to say "As bad as he was, Hitler did some good things".

 

 

So I take it you are convinced Nixon knew of the plot to break into the DNC Headquarters prior to it happening?
IIRC the sentiment was he likely didn't know and his crime (if that is the right word) was to participate in a cover-up once he found out about it.

Goldwater may well have said that. I think a real lot of people hopped on that bus as a matter of political expediency in the form of distancing themselves from Nixon.

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

If it had not been for the anti-war movement, and massive mutinies among the troops, 

the US would likely still be in Vietnam. 

The militarists did not give it up until they were forced to do so. 

And Nixon the traitor also blew up LBJ's Vietnam peace deal during the election campaign of 1968. 

I have heard this theory about Nixon having signaled to Viet Cong to hold out for a different deal.

Has Henry Kissinger ever confirmed it to be factual?

I think mass mutiny amongst the troops a fabrication. That said there certainly were a whole hell of a lot of conscience objects back home.

I doubt we would still be engaged in active warfare in Viet Nam. More likely manning a DMZ much like between the Koreas.
Question. If say the bombing in Cambodia had not come to light. If that strategy was thus successful in stopping the VC from going around the DMZ. Do you not think Viet Nam would not have seen a cease to hostilities much the same as in Korea? Second part of that question, do you not think if those opposed to the war had not protested so vehemently to bombing Hanoi, that that would not also have seen an end to the war?

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9 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

So I take it you are convinced Nixon knew of the plot to break into the DNC Headquarters prior to it happening?
IIRC the sentiment was he likely didn't know and his crime (if that is the right word) was to participate in a cover-up once he found out about it.

Goldwater may well have said that. I think a real lot of people hopped on that bus as a matter of political expediency in the form of distancing themselves from Nixon.

Trying to make this a piece of revisionist history won't work for anybody that's not a blind/dumb RWNJ like yourself.

Goldwater campaigned with and against Nixon before Nixon won the Presidency. And he was also widely known and despised for his doings as Ike's Vice President.

- DSK

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3 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

I have heard this theory about Nixon having signaled to Viet Cong to hold out for a different deal.

Your post is chock full of errors, so I'll just deal with the first several. 

It is not a "theory". See Smithsonian Mag . .  

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/

Second, Nixon did not deal with the Viet Cong, but with the South Viet. government. 

Third, it was not a "signal" but direct meetings between Nixon aide Anna Chennault and the S. Viet ambassador. 

You do not know nearly as much as you imagine. 

 

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Nixon authorized the creation of the White House Plumbers (who first broke into Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office). The Plumbers were then transferred to the CREEP. After the Plumbers were caught red handed at the Watergate in the 2nd burglary, Nixon authorized hush money paid to them and furthermore destroyed evidence.

Ford pardoned Nixon for something. What was that something?

all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed

Nixon was a shit.

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Not saying he wasn't. Hey wasn't he from your neck of the woods?

Ford pardoned Nixon to end the long national nightmare.
Cost Ford any chance of re-election. Only man to serve as President that never won a national election. 

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4 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Nixon didn't end the gold standard. That was FDR.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard

Before Nixon 'ended' the Vietnam War, he expanded it to Laos and Cambodia. Ford actually ended it.

The EPA was a non-Cabinet level reorganization of existing agencies. Nixon didn't sign the Clean Air Act. He signed an amendment of it which had passed unanimously in the Senate. The Clean Air Act dates to 1963 and was signed by LBJ.

 No, it wasn't Ford. We were out of there all but completely for a couple years before it fell. The VC had settled down, or been whittled down to nothing and the NVA was doing practically zip too. It was Congress that ended it by passing legislation which prevented us from aiding the RSV ever again. That is what prevented Ford from dispatching the USAF to hit the NVA when they probed south of their border after that legislation was passed.  Ford wanted to do that. When nothing happened the NVA rolled big time.  

 

  

 

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18 minutes ago, Mark K said:

 No, it wasn't Ford. We were out of there all but completely for a couple years before it fell. The VC had settled down, or been whittled down to nothing and the NVA was doing practically zip too. It was Congress that ended it by passing legislation which prevented us from aiding the RSV ever again. That is what prevented Ford from dispatching the USAF to hit the NVA when they probed south of their border after that legislation was passed.  Ford wanted to do that. When nothing happened the NVA rolled big time.  

 

 

Correct.

North Vietnam invaded the South with more tanks than Hitler rolled into France.

And despite years of propaganda to the contrary, there was no historic force of common culture. Viet Nam has been divided into two or three seperate countries for almost it's entire history before 1975. The North and the South have distinctly seperate ethnicity and culture. The main thing they have in common was being conquered and colonized by the French.

- DSK

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6 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Nixon destroyed himself. If he had come forth and admitted that some on his staff broke into the Watergate, apologized, fired those responsible, he would have earned a pass on the event. He would have been reelected, and ended up one of the top ten president's in history. Instead he rests at the bottom forever.

Yet don't forget his other problems.

He added an additional 21,000 dead American soldiers to the wall unnecessarily.

He used the FBI to investigate and ruin his opponents.

Selecting Spiro Agnew a tax evader, twice as his Vice President.

His Southern Strategy was racist.

He killed Allende, which killed thousands.

His policies contributed to the rise of the Khmer Rouge which killed millions.

He started the war on drugs which originally targeted blacks and leftist opposition to the war.

 

He bartered w/ the NV .... Think "Chennault affair".

Sound at all familiar? It should.

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5 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Former Nixon aide, John Ehrlichman further explained Nixon’s drug policy: “By getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.” 30

I always associated heroin with white middle class trust fund followers, and Marijuana with hippie chicks and loser guys. The hippie chicks were fun.... The others, not so much.

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1 minute ago, Mrleft8 said:

He bartered w/ the NV .... Think "Chennault affair".

Sound at all familiar? It should.

He committed treason when he played his stupid game with the NV. Kissinger was even worse, in 1973, he got the Nobel Peace Prize for the settlement he helped sabotage in 1968. Johnson was ready to go public with that news, but Clark Clifford one of the founders of the CIA talked him out of it, supposedly 'for the good of the country'.

Clifford got his due when he got caught in the middle of the BCCI scandal which financed Al Qaeda. His bank account was froze when it was discovered he had made a tidy sum of $6 million in profit. The case went on until a deal was made because of his ill health. He forfeited $5 million, but still got to be buried in Arlington and got his Presidential Medal of Freedom.

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6 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Nixon destroyed himself. If he had come forth and admitted that some on his staff broke into the Watergate, apologized, fired those responsible, he would have earned a pass on the event. He would have been reelected, and ended up one of the top ten president's in history. Instead he rests at the bottom forever.

Yet don't forget his other problems.

I think that all likely true in large part.

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16 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Clifford got his due when he got caught in the middle of the BCCI scandal which financed Al Qaeda. His bank account was froze when it was discovered he had made a tidy sum of $6 million in profit. The case went on until a deal was made because of his ill health. He forfeited $5 million, but still got to be buried in Arlington and got his Presidential Medal of Freedom.

I never knew that about Clifford.

Cheers.

 

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6 hours ago, badlatitude said:

He would have been reelected, and ended up one of the top ten president's in history. Instead he rests at the bottom forever.

 

 

Perhaps you are unaware that Nixon had already been appointed (Elected) to a 2nd term when he was impeached. He could not have run for another term even if Carter himself decided to capitulate had he been up against Nixon instead of Ford.

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Just now, Mrleft8 said:

Perhaps you are unaware that Nixon had already been appointed (Elected) to a 2nd term when he was impeached. He could not have run for another term even if Carter himself decided to capitulate had he been up against Nixon instead of Ford.

Thank you, I rushed the timing.

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21 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Perhaps you are unaware that Nixon had already been appointed (Elected) to a 2nd term when he was impeached. He could not have run for another term even if Carter himself decided to capitulate had he been up against Nixon instead of Ford.

Close. Articles were drafted but he wasn’t impeached and instead resigned to a full pardon. Yet he was re-elected in a landslide after the Watergate break-in, kind of like W getting re-elected after lying us into Iraq. But in fairness to Republicans, Hillary was involved in both the Iraq War vote and the impeachment proceedings.

Americans. We’re not that bright.

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I never knew that about Clifford.

Cheers.

 

Clifford was an old...... old...... long ago GF's uncle.....

 He was not popular in the family.

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3 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Not saying he wasn't. Hey wasn't he from your neck of the woods?

Ford pardoned Nixon to end the long national nightmare.
Cost Ford any chance of re-election. Only man to serve as President that never won a national election. 

And still got a freakin aircraft carrier named after him!

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

And still got a freakin aircraft carrier named after him!

Well, at least Ford had served on a carrier unlike Reagan who did training films.

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4 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Well, at least Ford had served on a carrier unlike Reagan who did training films.

And films where he was upstaged and outsmarted by a chimpanzee.

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13 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:
13 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I never knew that about Clifford.

Cheers.

 

Clifford was an old...... old...... long ago GF's uncle.....

 He was not popular in the family.

 Clark Clifford was a real big deal. DC white shoe lawyer who was SecDef among many G jobs.

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20 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Nixon didn't end the gold standard. That was FDR.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard

Before Nixon 'ended' the Vietnam War, he expanded it to Laos and Cambodia. Ford actually ended it.

The EPA was a non-Cabinet level reorganization of existing agencies. Nixon didn't sign the Clean Air Act. He signed an amendment of it which had passed unanimously in the Senate. The Clean Air Act dates to 1963 and was signed by LBJ.

So the government could set the price of gold?

How very interesting.

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On 7/31/2021 at 2:57 PM, quod umbra said:

This aught to make all the leftist alliance's hearts go pitter patter.

Mark Meadows says 'Cabinet members' meeting at Trump's New Jersey golf club | Washington Examiner

Discuss

After dinner Stormy Daniels sang “Happy Birthday Mr Pretend President” to Trump and then blew everybody. 

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On 7/31/2021 at 2:57 PM, quod umbra said:

This aught to make all the leftist alliance's hearts go pitter patter.

Mark Meadows says 'Cabinet members' meeting at Trump's New Jersey golf club | Washington Examiner

Discuss

Mr. Meadows and the rest of the sycophants can refer to him as "The President" all they want.  Doesn't change the fact that he is the defeated ex-President.

And, you know there is nothing that irks that clown more than the fact that he lost.  Bigly.

In the words of Happy Jack - "Ahahahahaha!"

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16 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Mr. Meadows and the rest of the sycophants can refer to him as "The President" all they want.  Doesn't change the fact that he is the defeated ex-President.

And, you know there is nothing that irks that clown more than the fact that he lost.  Bigly.

In the words of Happy Jack - "Ahahahahaha!"

New York’s most famous loser other than the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets did not lose bigly! Saying so isn’t just unfair, it is SO Unfair. 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

New York’s most famous loser other than the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets did not lose bigly! Saying so isn’t just unfair, it is SO Unfair. 

Well, if we don’t count all the votes cast against him, that’s true. 

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Well, if we don’t count all the votes cast against him, that’s true. 

Well dadgummit that's easy.  Don't count the votes from the nigras, wimminfolk and other democRATS, and only count those ballots that came from true Americans, and New York's finest genius will be the clear victor. 

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18 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Well dadgummit that's easy.  Don't count the votes from the nigras, wimminfolk and other democRATS, and only count those ballots that came from true Americans, and New York's finest genius will be the clear victor. 

Many people are saying it.  The best people.  And, they are saying strongly.  Very strongly.  No one has ever said anything stronger.

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4 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So the government could set the price of gold?

How very interesting.

It was moot since civilians weren't allowed to own gold except for small amounts like jewelry, dentistry etc.

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It seems that interfering with international agreements during a political campaign is kind of a Republican cottage industry.  Nixon with S. Vietnam, Reagan with Iranian hostages, TFG with Ukraine. 

Busy little traitors aren't they.

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54 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

interfering with international agreements during a political campaign

euphemism alert !

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

Clarified in the next sentence.

nothing wrong with euphemisms - a time-honored literary device. 

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On 8/1/2021 at 11:43 AM, quod umbra said:

I have heard this theory about Nixon having signaled to Viet Cong to hold out for a different deal.

Has Henry Kissinger ever confirmed it to be factual?

I think mass mutiny amongst the troops a fabrication. That said there certainly were a whole hell of a lot of conscience objects back home.

I doubt we would still be engaged in active warfare in Viet Nam. More likely manning a DMZ much like between the Koreas.
Question. If say the bombing in Cambodia had not come to light. If that strategy was thus successful in stopping the VC from going around the DMZ. Do you not think Viet Nam would not have seen a cease to hostilities much the same as in Korea? Second part of that question, do you not think if those opposed to the war had not protested so vehemently to bombing Hanoi, that that would not also have seen an end to the war?

No, the gov't of the south was going to fall. I think if you killed everyone in the north, which seemed to be the plans of the time, it would STILL have fallen. 

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12 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

No, the gov't of the south was going to fall. I think if you killed everyone in the north, which seemed to be the plans of the time, it would STILL have fallen. 

You are discussing this with someone purports to believe that Henry Kissinger could or would confirm something relating to Vietnam or any US foreign policy as "factual".  A man who made his career based on convenient lies.  

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Just now, quod umbra said:

Is not "convenient lies" the very essence of diplomacy?

Not when you are lying to the people you ostensibly represent.

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8 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Is not "convenient lies" the very essence of diplomacy?

The very essence of diplomacy is letting the other guy have your own way.

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