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The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?


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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

I occasional take her bait, but remember, Kate is a troll

NZ Mikey is pretty much the same as Colorado Mikey. Wrong, always, and the worst mathematician possible.

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I got my booster shot this morning and now totally understand the anti-vaxxers!  For starters, it took almost ten minutes from start to finish. I don’t have time for that. On top of that, it was free.

An excerpt from an excellent interview covering almost everything Covid https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/covid-expert-ben-neuman-vaccines-can-beat-variant-16412468.ph

Got home to Florida from Maine Sunday night. Walked into the Publix supermarket pharmacy five minutes from our house this morning with our vax cards in hand, got our Pfizer boosters, and did our groce

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21 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

This is material for PA.

I am not a very political person. I live in the USA. I am glad we have a democracy. I am glad we have the separation of the powers between judiciary, the legislature and the executive.

I really think that the pandemic should not be a political issue and I regret that both parties have failed in this regard. They should be working together on this. They should both acknowledge that mistakes will be made, but that there is a common goal.

The booster is not a political issue. Lets leave politics aside for now. Please.

 

19 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

As I see it the USA is not a democracy, to have a democracy you need an active opposition, who apposes the president, governors and mayors before the next election?

 

15 hours ago, TheDragon said:

WTF, if you don't call the Republicans now, and the Democrats before and next, an active opposition then you don't have a clue. The problem with this country is in part the extreme opposition.

 

14 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Of course, the Republicans with and after Trump are making a complete mess of this pandemic and the Democrats are trying their best to rescue the situation, but Terry claimed that the US was not a democracy as it does not have an "active" opposition. That's nonsense. We have a democracy, even if it is a wacky one with the two senators per state irregardless of population, not to mention the electoral college for presidential elections. And more locally at the state and city level democracy is a more even playing field, gerrymandering excluded. And we have active opposition parties, which seeming alternate with regularity, the major issue being the absoluteness of their opposition.

The USA gives executive power to the President, Governors, Mayors and various little kingdoms which make decisions which may or not be agreed by the Senate.

The various democracies around the world do not work that way, the elected government creates law by debate with opposition and such law is signed off by the head of state who can only exercise the power given to him/her by the government. 

The head of state has no power to act from his/her's own position.

This means that all decisions are rooted in democracy with no one person able to control his/her country, state or city.

The US system allows individuals to control events in their country, state or city and that is why they have made such a mess of the pandemic, the USA would be better off if it was a proper democracy.

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11 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Just imagine where we would be now if Trump had been re-elected. Actually, it doesn't bear thinking about.

I have to laugh at the 12 or idiot sissies that post here while hiding from the world in their basement.  Gotta wonder how they reconcile the act that FDA senior staff responsible for vaccine approvals resigned over Biden and his administration's political BS re vaccines... not Trumps.

#NaturalImmunity

#ZeroIsBetterThanThree

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4 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

 

 

 

The USA gives executive power to the President, Governors, Mayors and various little kingdoms which make decisions which may or not be agreed by the Senate.

The various democracies around the world do not work that way, the elected government creates law by debate with opposition and such law is signed off by the head of state who can only exercise the power given to him/her by the government. 

The head of state has no power to act from his/her's own position.

This means that all decisions are rooted in democracy with no one person able to control his/her country, state or city.

The US system allows individuals to control events in their country, state or city and that is why they have made such a mess of the pandemic, the USA would be better off if it was a proper democracy.

As is frequently pointed out, the US is a constitutional republic, rather than a democracy.

We have three branches of federal government—executive (the President at the top of that), legislative (the senate and House of Representatives, which make federal law), and judicial (the federal court system.)

Broadly speaking, the leaders/members of the executive and legislative branches are democratically elected.

Then you add similar structure at the 50-state level, and similar structure all the way down to the local level.

It is messy and inefficient, especially for a country of over 300 million. 

But it’s what we have lived with for almost 250 years, for better and worse. 

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48 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

 

 

 

The USA gives executive power to the President, Governors, Mayors and various little kingdoms which make decisions which may or not be agreed by the Senate.

The various democracies around the world do not work that way, the elected government creates law by debate with opposition and such law is signed off by the head of state who can only exercise the power given to him/her by the government. 

The head of state has no power to act from his/her's own position.

This means that all decisions are rooted in democracy with no one person able to control his/her country, state or city.

The US system allows individuals to control events in their country, state or city and that is why they have made such a mess of the pandemic, the USA would be better off if it was a proper democracy.

Nope.  Wrong about democracies around the world, almost all who elect a chief executive with executive powers. Wrong about the US where the separation of executive, legislative and judiciary than most.    In the U.K. for one example, the prime minister has executive powers and controls the legislature. 

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4 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Nope.  Wrong about democracies around the world, almost all who elect a chief executive with executive powers. Wrong about the US where the separation of executive, legislative and judiciary than most.    In the U.K. for one example, the prime minister has executive powers and controls the legislature. 

You are confused, the Prime Minister of the UK is not the head of state, the Queen is but she doesn't have any power, she must obey the government, same with the Prime Minister, he can't do anything that has not been agreed by Parliament which debates the law with the opposition and who have the ultimate power.

That's how democracy works.

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So you think the FDA officials didn’t resign because of Biden’s vaccine policy BS (especially re boosters)? And that the Advisory Committee didn’t push back and put a stop to Biden’s previously announced (before the data was even submitted LOL) widespread booster plans instead scaling it way back? 
 

 

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7 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

same with the Prime Minister, he can't do anything that has not been agreed by Parliament which debates the law with the opposition and who have the ultimate power.

Get your head out of the out of date text books @Terry Hollis!  Haven't you heard of the Executive Council and Executive Orders in Council?

The Executive being the Prime Minister and Cabinet.  At times not even the entire Cabinet.  That very small group can make decisions without Parliament even knowing.  That's how NZ is currently bordering on being an authoritarian dictatorship. 

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26 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Get your head out of the out of date text books @Terry Hollis!  Haven't you heard of the Executive Council and Executive Orders in Council?

The Executive being the Prime Minister and Cabinet.  At times not even the entire Cabinet.  That very small group can make decisions without Parliament even knowing.  That's how NZ is currently bordering on being an authoritarian dictatorship. 

NZ Mikey using the same hyperbole as Seppo Mikey

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5 hours ago, Wess said:

So you think the FDA officials didn’t resign because of Biden’s vaccine policy BS (especially re boosters)? And that the Advisory Committee didn’t push back and put a stop to Biden’s previously announced (before the data was even submitted LOL) widespread booster plans instead scaling it way back? 
 

 

Who cares people resign all the time. Do you work there or something? Seem awfully invested in those officials and committees. 

You are such a vax wonk...when  you look at ages, incidences of "conditions," and jobs with exposure, just who and how many are left out of a Free 3rd Fizzer? Can't be that many. How many is "way back "?

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Get your head out of the out of date text books @Terry Hollis!  Haven't you heard of the Executive Council and Executive Orders in Council?

The Executive being the Prime Minister and Cabinet.  At times not even the entire Cabinet.  That very small group can make decisions without Parliament even knowing.  That's how NZ is currently bordering on being an authoritarian dictatorship. 

The Prime Minister and the Ministers are selected by the elected members of the governing party, if they don't perform they can be dismissed and changed at any time, democracy is still in control.

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On 9/28/2021 at 12:27 PM, EYESAILOR said:

...

(iv) The vaccine effectiveness appears to wane in older adults.  The jury is still out on whether it wanes for middle aged or younger adults.

More data for your study...

In a state with an extremely low vax rate, my son's fiance had a breakthrough case, not bad, but she was sick for about 9 days. She was fully vaccinated with Pfizer in January. This week my daughter and her boyfriend also had mild breakthrough cases only lasting a few days. They were both vaccinated with Pfizer last April. All cases were confirmed with C19 tests administered by their local hospitals. To date, I know of no local breakthrough cases in those vaccinated with Moderna. It would be interesting to see the percentage of breakthrough cases for each of the major vaccine manufacturers. 

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15 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

You are confused, the Prime Minister of the UK is not the head of state, the Queen is but she doesn't have any power, she must obey the government, same with the Prime Minister, he can't do anything that has not been agreed by Parliament which debates the law with the opposition and who have the ultimate power.

That's how democracy works.

 

2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

The Prime Minister and the Ministers are selected by the elected members of the governing party, if they don't perform they can be dismissed and changed at any time, democracy is still in control.

Hello Terry,

I am British and honored still to be a citizen of the United Kingdom, despite living stateside.

A couple of pointers when comparing the powers of the Prime Minister of the UK vs the President of the US.

1. The Prime minister appoints his cabinet at his  discretion. (The ministers are not as you suggest appointed by MPs.)  The President has to get the approval of the elected Senate for his appointments. The PM has the power to appoint, reshuffle or dismiss cabinet ministers at any time, at his or her choosing. The President can ask for the resignation of a cabinet secretary but any replacement must be approved again by the senate.

2.  The PM has no term limits and can stay in power for as long as he or she has a party that commands a majority. In the US, the President can only stay in power for 2 terms

The PM has power to terminate the life of a government and call a general election to elect the legislature. The US president has no say at all over the election of the legislature which hold elections for approx 1/2 the house every 2 years and a presidential election every 4 years..

3. The US President is elected directly by the people.  The candidates for President are selected by nationwide primaries, The UK electorate doesnt get to choose the candidates or vote for a PM. The PMs are selected by a small number of political insiders. The PM is always a professional politician. 

4. The PM sets the cabinet agenda and order of government business. US secretaries and cabinet members have a much greater degree of independence and can be called to testify directly to both branches of the legislature. These in depth reviews are fully staffed and can last for days.  Questions to the UK government go to question time in the HoP   ( 1 hour for 1 minister  4 days a week)  or written questions.

5.  In the UK, the executive branch proposes the nation's budget. It is debated for  4 days.  In the US the White House OMB and the President propose a budget, but Congress then gets to work drafting the actual budget bills and the 12 Appropriations sub committees of the legislature sit down with each Federal agency and go thru the agencies' budgets in great detail. The resulting bill has to be passed by both houses (elected) before going for the Presidents signature.

6. The US president has considerably less powers than for example the French president.

Yet the parliamentary democracy of the UK just seems so civilized.

The president of the USA wields enormous power but you are  wrong to assume that there are not checks and balances. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

 

Hello Terry,

I am British and honored still to be a citizen of the United Kingdom, despite living stateside.

A couple of pointers when comparing the powers of the Prime Minister of the UK vs the President of the US.

1. The Prime minister appoints his cabinet at his  discretion. (The ministers are not as you suggest appointed by MPs.)  The President has to get the approval of the elected Senate for his appointments. The PM has the power to appoint, reshuffle or dismiss cabinet ministers at any time, at his or her choosing. The President can ask for the resignation of a cabinet secretary but any replacement must be approved again by the senate.

2.  The PM has no term limits and can stay in power for as long as he or she has a party that commands a majority. In the US, the President can only stay in power for 2 terms

The PM has power to terminate the life of a government and call a general election to elect the legislature. The US president has no say at all over the election of the legislature which hold elections for approx 1/2 the house every 2 years and a presidential election every 4 years..

3. The US President is elected directly by the people.  The candidates for President are selected by nationwide primaries, The UK electorate doesnt get to choose the candidates or vote for a PM. The PMs are selected by a small number of political insiders. The PM is always a professional politician. 

4. The PM sets the cabinet agenda and order of government business. US secretaries and cabinet members have a much greater degree of independence and can be called to testify directly to both branches of the legislature. These in depth reviews are fully staffed and can last for days.  Questions to the UK government go to question time in the HoP   ( 1 hour for 1 minister  4 days a week)  or written questions.

5.  In the UK, the executive branch proposes the nation's budget. It is debated for  4 days.  In the US the White House OMB and the President propose a budget, but Congress then gets to work drafting the actual budget bills and the 12 Appropriations sub committees of the legislature sit down with each Federal agency and go thru the agencies' budgets in great detail. The resulting bill has to be passed by both houses (elected) before going for the Presidents signature.

6. The US president has considerably less powers than for example the French president.

Yet the parliamentary democracy of the UK just seems so civilized.

The president of the USA wields enormous power but you are  wrong to assume that there are not checks and balances. 

 

 

What an interesting discussion. I love when Brits and Kiwis explain to me how the US constitution works :rolleyes:......but puhlease can you take it to PA.

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5 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

What an interesting discussion. I love when Brits and Kiwis explain to me how the US constitution works :rolleyes:......but puhlease can you take it to PA.

It's not so much about how the USA Constitution works as how it doesn't work when we have a world pandemic.

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5 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

 

Hello Terry,

I am British and honored still to be a citizen of the United Kingdom, despite living stateside.

A couple of pointers when comparing the powers of the Prime Minister of the UK vs the President of the US.

1. The Prime minister appoints his cabinet at his  discretion. (The ministers are not as you suggest appointed by MPs.)  The President has to get the approval of the elected Senate for his appointments. The PM has the power to appoint, reshuffle or dismiss cabinet ministers at any time, at his or her choosing. The President can ask for the resignation of a cabinet secretary but any replacement must be approved again by the senate.

2.  The PM has no term limits and can stay in power for as long as he or she has a party that commands a majority. In the US, the President can only stay in power for 2 terms

The PM has power to terminate the life of a government and call a general election to elect the legislature. The US president has no say at all over the election of the legislature which hold elections for approx 1/2 the house every 2 years and a presidential election every 4 years..

3. The US President is elected directly by the people.  The candidates for President are selected by nationwide primaries, The UK electorate doesnt get to choose the candidates or vote for a PM. The PMs are selected by a small number of political insiders. The PM is always a professional politician. 

4. The PM sets the cabinet agenda and order of government business. US secretaries and cabinet members have a much greater degree of independence and can be called to testify directly to both branches of the legislature. These in depth reviews are fully staffed and can last for days.  Questions to the UK government go to question time in the HoP   ( 1 hour for 1 minister  4 days a week)  or written questions.

5.  In the UK, the executive branch proposes the nation's budget. It is debated for  4 days.  In the US the White House OMB and the President propose a budget, but Congress then gets to work drafting the actual budget bills and the 12 Appropriations sub committees of the legislature sit down with each Federal agency and go thru the agencies' budgets in great detail. The resulting bill has to be passed by both houses (elected) before going for the Presidents signature.

6. The US president has considerably less powers than for example the French president.

Yet the parliamentary democracy of the UK just seems so civilized.

The president of the USA wields enormous power but you are  wrong to assume that there are not checks and balances. 

I am sorry if I gave the impression that the ministers are appointed by the members, I am well aware that they are appointed by the PM as they are in NZ.

The point is that the PM can be sacked and replaced very quickly by the members of the governing party and this is democracy. In the US they are stuck with the president until the next election so he/she can act like an autocrat with little impunity.

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32 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

I am sorry if I gave the impression that the ministers are appointed by the members, I am well aware that they are appointed by the PM as they are in NZ.

The point is that the PM can be sacked and replaced very quickly by the members of the governing party and this is democracy. In the US they are stuck with the president until the next election so he/she can act like an autocrat with little impunity.

There's not as much difference as you make out.

Yes, the US President can't be sacked (absent successful impeachment) but he also doesn't really control the budget, unlike in the Westminster system. So they can make him a lame duck if they choose.

Also while a PM can be sacked, the currently ruling political party cannot (short of loss of a vote of confidence), so it's more musical chairs a lot of time than substance. As recent Australian political history can attest. This with more emphasis if there are fixed term elections.

Anyway, that's the sum total of my contribution to this here.

FKT

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4 minutes ago, Mid said:

fwiw I'll be getting the boster asap and expect an annual covid same as flu .

Fauci said yesterday you can get both shots at the same time. We want the Covid booster first to be able to judge our reaction to it. Probably get flu vaccine a week or so later.

At home in FL, we are only five minutes to the Publix pharmacy, so it isn’t an inconvenience.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I am sorry if I gave the impression that the ministers are appointed by the members, I am well aware that they are appointed by the PM as they are in NZ.

The point is that the PM can be sacked and replaced very quickly by the members of the governing party and this is democracy. In the US they are stuck with the president until the next election so he/she can act like an autocrat with little impunity.

There are many countries where the leader can be replaced by the ruling party. Most of them are not democracies. In the USA only the people or the legislature can remove a President.  For all its flaws we prefer a democracy where our chosen executive is accountable to the electorate . We get some great ones and we get some bum ones but we choose them.

The concept of a ruling political class able to replace or choose the President behind closed doors would never stand in the US.

"That this nation,..... government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

Fauci said yesterday you can get both shots at the same time. We want the Covid booster first to be able to judge our reaction to it. Probably get flu vaccine a week or so later.

At home in FL, we are only five minutes to the Publix pharmacy, so it isn’t an inconvenience.

I went to Publix last Tuesday and they would not give me the booster as I am a month away from being 65.  They did give me a flu vaccine and then told me I had to wait 28 days (4 wks?) to get the covid vaccine after the flu anyway.   And then on the evening fake news the experts were saying they are combining the vaccines or giving them at the same time.

If I had waited for the flu vax to closer to Thanksgiving, they sometimes start giving out free turkeys!

I realize this is all new and being worked out as it develops, but yeah, will be lining up for the Pfizer booster in a month.

And @Mid, I agree, we will probably be seeing this as at least an annual vax.  Hopefully it will be adjusted for the variants that show up.

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4 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

It's not so much about how the USA Constitution works as how it doesn't work when we have a world pandemic.

Try analyzing the EU and Asia too.  It's not like we are solely respoonsible for spreading it all over other countries.  And if NZ thinks it was a US person that gave it to you, that's a failure of NZ's gold standard quarantine and isolation systems.  And thank your lucky ass for the vaccines you are using which came from those plague areas.  Not from Fortress Oceania.

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

I went to Publix last Tuesday and they would not give me the booster as I am a month away from being 65.  They did give me a flu vaccine and then told me I had to wait 28 days (4 wks?) to get the covid vaccine after the flu anyway.   And then on the evening fake news the experts were saying they are combining the vaccines or giving them at the same time.

If I had waited for the flu vax to closer to Thanksgiving, they sometimes start giving out free turkeys!

I realize this is all new and being worked out as it develops, but yeah, will be lining up for the Pfizer booster in a month.

And @Mid, I agree, we will probably be seeing this as at least an annual vax.  Hopefully it will be adjusted for the variants that show up.

Ask at a different pharmacy if you are 65 before 28 days.  The 28 days is not standard.  Walgreens gave me a flu shot and I chose to wait 2 weeks since I had to use same arm, they happily gave me my 3rd shot.  

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7 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Try analyzing the EU and Asia too.  It's not like we are solely respoonsible for spreading it all over other countries.  And if NZ thinks it was a US person that gave it to you, that's a failure of NZ's gold standard quarantine and isolation systems.  And thank your lucky ass for the vaccines you are using which came from those plague areas.  Not from Fortress Oceania.

Nasty.

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10 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Try analyzing the EU and Asia too.  It's not like we are solely respoonsible for spreading it all over other countries.  And if NZ thinks it was a US person that gave it to you, that's a failure of NZ's gold standard quarantine and isolation systems.  And thank your lucky ass for the vaccines you are using which came from those plague areas.  Not from Fortress Oceania.

This thread was started when eye claimed that she was glad that she lived in a democracy. 

New Zealand was vaccinated with the German developed Pfizer vaccine.

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15 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

This thread was started when eye claimed that she was glad that she lived in a democracy. 

New Zealand was vaccinated with the German developed Pfizer vaccine.

Germany is in the EU and they had plenty of covid incentive to develop a vaccine.  Isn't the whole world a plague zone in NZ eyes?

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6 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Germany is in the EU and they had plenty of covid incentive to develop a vaccine.  Isn't the whole world a plague zone in NZ eyes?

Yes, but some countries are more dangerous than others having failed to get covid-19 under control.

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2 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Yes, but some countries are more dangerous than others having failed to get covid-19 under control.

Right. But the somewhat, kinda and really dangerous ones made vaccines for safe places to adopt at their leisure. 

Aussies are keen to travel. I think they are nuts. Brits want to go to Florida. Nuts.

I am content where I am. Hospitals not stressed, plenty of services. I even went to dinner tonight. Outside, lol. 

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Right. But the somewhat, kinda and really dangerous ones made vaccines for safe places to adopt at their leisure. 

NZ contributed finance to five different groups around the world to assist in the development of a vaccine, they also contributed the results of their on research and development free to all vaccine research groups.

Being a small safe country NZ was unable to assist in the testing of vaccines because we did not have anyone to test it on.  Just two deaths this year, we were at the end of the queue for vaccines because vaccines were more urgently required by other countries which had been unable to control the virus.

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54 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I imagine you wouldn't prefer it otherwise?

It would be nice to be further up the queue for the vaccine so that we could relax our control on the border a bit sooner, but it is what it is.  We have had 28 deaths from covid-19 so far and only two deaths this year, I find it difficult to critisize the government for it's handling of the pandemic even though I did not vote for them.

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16 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

It would be nice to be further up the queue for the vaccine so that we could relax our control on the border a bit sooner, but it is what it is.  We have had 28 deaths from covid-19 so far and only two deaths this year, I find it difficult to critisize the government for it's handling of the pandemic even though I did not vote for them.

Yep cost $120b to only have 28 deaths.  

Explain now how it wasn't ok to live with any covid deaths but now NZ is being told to expect 700 to 2,000 deaths?

BTW that Debt to GDP ratio must be close to breaking through 50%.  Would have to be one of the fastest growing rates in the OECD.

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On 10/2/2021 at 3:41 PM, Terry Hollis said:

It would be nice to be further up the queue for the vaccine so that we could relax our control on the border a bit sooner, but it is what it is.  We have had 28 deaths from covid-19 so far and only two deaths this year, I find it difficult to critisize the government for it's handling of the pandemic even though I did not vote for them.

 

7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Yep cost $120b to only have 28 deaths.  

Explain now how it wasn't ok to live with any covid deaths but now NZ is being told to expect 700 to 2,000 deaths?

BTW that Debt to GDP ratio must be close to breaking through 50%.  Would have to be one of the fastest growing rates in the OECD.

Dream on Kate, NZ has still got one of the lowest gdp/debt rations in the world.

https://www.budget.govt.nz/budget/2021/wellbeing/fiscal-strategy/balanced-strategy/lowest-public-debt.htm#:~:text=This shows New Zealand's debt,111.0 percent in the US.

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17 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

You are living in la la land.  The article you link to is political spin for the last budget.  It is already out of date.

Secondly if you actually read the detail or dive 8nto the data you will find that the increase in debt hasn't gone towards improving productivity or infrastructure.

Thirdly comparing countries ratios is misleading unless you look at where the debt was spent and what is underpinning the GDP and the countries ability to pay back debt.  Unless of course you are a promoter of the socialist mantra of just keep printing money.

NZ's GDP is being kept up by an out of control house market and people buying new motorcars.  The real sources of economic wealth are suffering - badly.

Now I'd be interested to hear from your extensive research which countries have a higher GROWTH RATE of Debt.

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58 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

NZ's GDP is being kept up by an out of control house market and people buying new motorcars.  The real sources of economic wealth are suffering - badly.

Flying pigs, we agree on one thing. Yes housing is fucked and no change in sight as the boomer voting bloc keep the rules in their favour. Their children will do the same as they inherit the wealth but after that who knows. This is the simply the pendulum swinging back from post war accords that shared the wealth around.  

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You are living in la la land.  The article you link to is political spin for the last budget.  It is already out of date.

Secondly if you actually read the detail or dive 8nto the data you will find that the increase in debt hasn't gone towards improving productivity or infrastructure.

Thirdly comparing countries ratios is misleading unless you look at where the debt was spent and what is underpinning the GDP and the countries ability to pay back debt.  Unless of course you are a promoter of the socialist mantra of just keep printing money.

NZ's GDP is being kept up by an out of control house market and people buying new motorcars.  The real sources of economic wealth are suffering - badly.

Now I'd be interested to hear from your extensive research which countries have a higher GROWTH RATE of Debt.

Ironic that an anti vaxxer is complaining about the economic impact of covid. If you dont care about the country, society and the economy, why are you suddenly bleating on about the increasing debt to gdp caused by the covid crisis.

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You are living in la la land.  The article you link to is political spin for the last budget.  It is already out of date.

Secondly if you actually read the detail or dive 8nto the data you will find that the increase in debt hasn't gone towards improving productivity or infrastructure.

Thirdly comparing countries ratios is misleading unless you look at where the debt was spent and what is underpinning the GDP and the countries ability to pay back debt.  Unless of course you are a promoter of the socialist mantra of just keep printing money.

NZ's GDP is being kept up by an out of control house market and people buying new motorcars.  The real sources of economic wealth are suffering - badly.

Now I'd be interested to hear from your extensive research which countries have a higher GROWTH RATE of Debt.

Obtaining up to date comparative data for debt/GDP and the Growth rate of debt is not possible as you probably know   The up to date data might be available for some countries but we need data which is the same date for each country.

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20 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So your post meant nothing?

 

Well, that would be 99.99% of yours. I give the remainder that I haven't read the benefit of the doubt.

Nevertheless, the S/N will be improved at least marginally by your exclusion so - bye.

FKT

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12 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

You are living in la la land.  The article you link to is political spin for the last budget.  It is already out of date.

Secondly if you actually read the detail or dive 8nto the data you will find that the increase in debt hasn't gone towards improving productivity or infrastructure.

Thirdly comparing countries ratios is misleading unless you look at where the debt was spent and what is underpinning the GDP and the countries ability to pay back debt.  Unless of course you are a promoter of the socialist mantra of just keep printing money.

NZ's GDP is being kept up by an out of control house market and people buying new motorcars.  The real sources of economic wealth are suffering - badly.

Now I'd be interested to hear from your extensive research which countries have a higher GROWTH RATE of Debt.

Yah  

asset  inflation , turbo charged by government handouts , has made growth numbers meaningless 

this scenario may last a long time 

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11 hours ago, Mid said:

gunna be fun when things reopen and the unvaxed realise they are sitting ducks ......

This! most folks in NZ and Aus seem to be just a little more sensible than the USA, and once they realize that the zero-case strategy is no more the vaccination rates will shoot up. All they need to do is pay more than a passing reference to the USA with over 700,000 dead, or peruse this site for a few minutes - https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/. Of course there will still be those who have left it too late to get double-vaxxed in time, and will catch the corona and suffer.

 

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11 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

No! your response means nothing, I may have used older data than you like but you have no data at all, you are just guessing.

I'm not guessing.  I posted accurate Treasury and Reserve Bank data and analysis weeks ago to counter your way out of date data.

You chose to ignore that just as you choose to ignore the fact that debt levels have got worse not better.

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I'm not guessing.  I posted accurate Treasury and Reserve Bank data and analysis weeks ago to counter your way out of date data.

You chose to ignore that just as you choose to ignore the fact that debt levels have got worse not better.

I not seen any comparative data between countries posted by you, pleased let me have another link to alleged data.

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10 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

I not seen any comparative data between countries posted by you, pleased let me have another link to alleged data.

It's here go search for it.  Either your age or the jab is affecting your short term memory.

Or go to the latest data and put your institutional bias in the drawer.

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From Israel.  The index case was fully vaccinated.

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.39.2100822

We have investigated a nosocomial COVID-19 outbreak involving the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant among a highly vaccinated population. The attack rate among exposed individuals reached 23.3% in patients and 10.3% in staff, with 96.2% vaccination rate among exposed individuals. Moreover, several transmissions probably occurred between two individuals both wearing surgical masks, and in one instance using full PPE, including N-95 mask, face shield, gown and gloves.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It's here go search for it.  Either your age or the jab is affecting your short term memory.

Or go to the latest data and put your institutional bias in the drawer.

This is typical of you, the comparisons with several other countries is essential to draw proper conclusions, you don't have the data.

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1 minute ago, Terry Hollis said:

This is typical of you, the comparisons with several other countries is essential to draw proper conclusions, you don't have the data.

I do have the data and I've posted it previously.  However you are fixated on GDP as a measure and it is a flawed measure.

Do you really think sustainable economic growth is driven by the purchase of motorcars and inflated house prices?  Fueled by Quantitative Easing?

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

From Israel.  The index case was fully vaccinated.

https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.39.2100822

We have investigated a nosocomial COVID-19 outbreak involving the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant among a highly vaccinated population. The attack rate among exposed individuals reached 23.3% in patients and 10.3% in staff, with 96.2% vaccination rate among exposed individuals. Moreover, several transmissions probably occurred between two individuals both wearing surgical masks, and in one instance using full PPE, including N-95 mask, face shield, gown and gloves.

I suppose Israel was one of the first countries to be highly vaccinated but the Delta variant and their hospital procedures let them down. 

It is a bit of a worry that the only two people in the group had the least severity of the decease, hopefully it is just a quirk of the tiny sample.

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8 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The Pzifer vaccine was approved with no Delta data.

It is important to look at the Israeli data post the booster shot.  That is entirely Delta data. 
 

it was posted up thread

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47 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It is important to look at the Israeli data post the booster shot.  That is entirely Delta data. 
 

it was posted up thread

But no Delta data was included in the March presentation to the FDA when they gave approval.  

Can you be more specific regarding why it is important to look at the data post the third booster shot?

Are you saying that the case I posted the index case didn't have the booster shot?  Your inference being that if they had the case wouldn't have occurred?

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Reading that report I sure don't want to be in a hospital during covid  with 3 to 4 in a room in beds 1 meter apart with curtains in between.  With patients wearing surgical masks kind of. Gappy ones probably.  

Is a mystery how the N95 hazmat person got it but shit happens.

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On 10/3/2021 at 3:54 PM, Terry Hollis said:

6,000 businesses closed down last month. The last four months has seen the number of closures surpass records for 12 months.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

6,000 businesses closed down last month. The last four months has seen the number of closures surpass records for 12 months.

I doubt that any country has survived the pandemic without some changes,

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

I doubt that any country has survived the pandemic without some changes,

Oh, that's okay then. Throw a few thousand families on the scrap heap and just label it as 'some changes'.

Still, think of the old, infirm and weak we saved instead. Must be nice to have a safe life, protected by those losing their future.

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39 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Oh, that's okay then. Throw a few thousand families on the scrap heap and just label it as 'some changes'.

Still, think of the old, infirm and weak we saved instead. Must be nice to have a safe life, protected by those losing their future.

It isn't just old people who get sick and die from Covid. If you let it run wild, you will really see what economic and social disruption looks like.

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22 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

 

Can you be more specific regarding why it is important to look at the data post the third booster shot?

 

Because this is a thread about the booster shot

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On 9/29/2021 at 7:57 AM, Terry Hollis said:

As I see it the USA is not a democracy, to have a democracy you need an active opposition, who apposes the president, governors and mayors before the next election?

On 9/29/2021 at 12:14 PM, TheDragon said:

WTF, if you don't call the Republicans now, and the Democrats before and next, an active opposition then you don't have a clue. The problem with this country is in part the extreme opposition.

Terry, you are right, we are not a democracy. We may think we elect people to work for us but we all know that Politicians are owned by Corporate interests. Occasionally they make a sacrifice of one to placate us.

It is the Media that scares me. They are such a bunch of pussies not willing to do their job without letting their party ideology influence them.

Nancy Pelosi would love to have the power that Ding Dong Ping wields and we are moving closer to that tipping point. Just look at history and the policies enacted by the Social Democrat Party of Germany (aka Nazi) in the 30's and 40's. Too many similarities IMHO.

Governments no longer want people to make decisions for themselves and sometimes, I agree. The Human gene pool is so polluted and there are just too many on this planet for us to come together.

Making a vaccine or medication that works for everyone is virtually impossible.

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12 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 

Terry, you are right, we are not a democracy. We may think we elect people to work for us but we all know that Politicians are owned by Corporate interests. Occasionally they make a sacrifice of one to placate us.

It is the Media that scares me. They are such a bunch of pussies not willing to do their job without letting their party ideology influence them.

Nancy Pelosi would love to have the power that Ding Dong Ping wields and we are moving closer to that tipping point. Just look at history and the policies enacted by the Social Democrat Party of Germany (aka Nazi) in the 30's and 40's. Too many similarities IMHO.

Governments no longer want people to make decisions for themselves and sometimes, I agree. The Human gene pool is so polluted and there are just too many on this planet for us to come together.

Making a vaccine or medication that works for everyone is virtually impossible.

Why are you RWNJs such ignorant fuck-carrots?

The USA is (for now) a democratic republic. That means local sovereignty under a federal system, with elected positions at all levels BUT not all positions are elected. The writers of the Constitution, both for the country overall and for the states, wanted the input of voters but to limit and balance the powers.

NO government really wants the people to make decisions, the question is whose interest gets served. With voters able to remove officials, that means they get a strong say in policy.

Until they are so easily hoodwinked that they no longer vote in their own interest. Say for example, a large group of voters genuinely do not believe in the principle of democracy itself, believe that ALL politicians are bad, have forgotten or never knew that this is a government OF the people BY the people, and similar idiocies.

The first step is to acknowledge the problem. You're good on that, we just need to work a little on defining the problem.

- DSK

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8 hours ago, accnick said:

It isn't just old people who get sick and die from Covid. If you let it run wild, you will really see what economic and social disruption looks like.

But what we are doing isn't working either. Lock down for weeks and it is spreading outside the porous border system they have set up. Slowed it down, sure, but we are already getting the social and economic disruption without getting any benefit.

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11 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I doubt that any country has survived the pandemic without some changes,

"Without some changes"!  Hell you have been the one saying how great the New Zealand economy was doing reapeating the BS from the Finance Minister while ignoring the fundamentals!  Record numbers of businesses going bust, GDP driven by printed money being spent on the non productive inflation of property prices and the purchase of motor vehicles.  Public and private debt levels increasing at record rates.

The chickens are coming home to roost now.  The reality is being felt by the rank and file.  All of which was predictable.

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