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The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?


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I got my booster shot this morning and now totally understand the anti-vaxxers!  For starters, it took almost ten minutes from start to finish. I don’t have time for that. On top of that, it was free.

An excerpt from an excellent interview covering almost everything Covid https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/health/article/covid-expert-ben-neuman-vaccines-can-beat-variant-16412468.ph

Got home to Florida from Maine Sunday night. Walked into the Publix supermarket pharmacy five minutes from our house this morning with our vax cards in hand, got our Pfizer boosters, and did our groce

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

Paranoia , hysteria ?

they are getting ready to vaccinate 5 year old children 

Don't know where you live, but I suspect you had any number of vaccinations by the time you were five.

Here's a link to the CDC's recommended vaccination schedule for infants through adolescents by age, beginning at birth:

CDC childhood recommended vaccination schedule

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Just now, accnick said:

Don't know where you live, but I suspect you had any number of vaccinations by the time you were five.

No experimental vaccines 

And children don’t develop Covid disease 

why do they need an experimental vaccine 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717.amp

 

  • Around 15 had life-limiting or underlying conditions, including 13 living with complex neuro-disabilities
  • Six had no underlying conditions recorded in the last five years - though researchers caution some illnesses may have been missed

8A51A608-F474-4E39-99F5-7614D8B49AB3.png

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

With experimental vaccines ?  ..

What "experimental" vaccine has been trialed on over 300 million people?

  

12 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

... And children don’t develop Covid disease ...

^ a lie ^  

Dumbass

- DSK

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

No experimental vaccines 

And children don’t develop Covid disease 

 

In the USA, 8,300 COVID-19 cases in children 5 through 11 years of age resulted in hospitalization

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5 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

 How many of those children were healthy ? 
how many children are there in the  US ? 

None of them were healthy....they were all sufficiently sick that they required hospitalization.

Feel free to revise, your previous statement that

1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

children don’t develop Covid disease 

 

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38 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

None of them were healthy....they were all sufficiently sick that they required hospitalization.

Feel free to revise, your previous statement 

How many kids have died of COVID-19?

Of the 73 million children in the U.S., fewer than 700 have died of COVID-19 during the course of the pandemic, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

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4 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

How many kids have died of COVID-19?

Of the 73 million children in the U.S., fewer than 700 have died of COVID-19 during the course of the pandemic, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Well, I'm sure that the parents of every one of the 700 are pleased to hear that so few have died.

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10 minutes ago, accnick said:

Well, I'm sure that the parents of every one of the 700 are pleased to hear that so few have died.

If you call this a pandemic you are a moron 

in addition the majority of the children who died had serious co morbidities  

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37 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

If you call this a pandemic you are a moron 

That makes me a moron in your eyes. 
 

Let’s just agree to disagree on the nomenclature that we would use to describe a global virus that has killed approximately 5 million people, sent many times that to hospital, permanently changed the working habits  of nations and cost trillions of dollars 

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8 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

That makes me a moron in your eyes. 
 

Let’s just agree to disagree on the nomenclature that we would use to describe a global virus that has killed approximately 5 million people, sent many times that to hospital, permanently changed the working habits  of nations and cost trillions of dollars 

I believe that you are fanning the flames 

already children in the US are in poor health 

science has no data concerning the long term effects of these vaccines on children 

poor health may get even worse 

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21 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

I believe that you are fanning the flames 

already children in the US are in poor health 

science has no data concerning the long term effects of these vaccines on children 

poor health may get even worse 

Or not.

Are you a public health expert?

What are your credentials for making such a statement? What is the source of information that makes you believe this?

You certainly are an expert at gross generalizations and pure speculation.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, accnick said:

Or not.

Are you a public health expert?

What are your credentials for making such a statement? What is the source of information that makes you believe this?

You certainly are an expert at gross generalizations and pure speculation.

 

 

I can read 

 

 

A6A993C7-8052-440C-840A-223B0FFE4820.jpeg

 

F43F750C-84C1-417C-BB47-566088518C36.jpeg

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1 minute ago, slug zitski said:

I can read 

 

14ECB804-503C-4358-B506-4C79B15423D2.gif

Care to elaborate on the meaning and relevance of that 20-year-old graph--which actually goes back 70 years at its point of origin-- to the current situation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

science has no data concerning the long term effects of these vaccines on children 

Yes, we do.  We know that the children that die from covid do not come back to life.   We believe, based on the studies done already, that the number of children who may get very sick and/or die from being vaccinated is several orders of magnitude less than the number who will get very sick and/or die from covid.

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4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I believe that you are fanning the flames 

already children in the US are in poor health 

science has no data concerning the long term effects of these vaccines on children 

poor health may get even worse 

OTOH science has great data that covid DOES have serious long term impact on children, from clotting disorders to organ damage.

How long would you wait for "long term data" and how many children should die before you think a vaccine is a good idea?

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Yes, we do.  We know that the children that die from covid do not come back to life.   We believe, based on the studies done already, that the number of children who may get very sick and/or die from being vaccinated is several orders of magnitude less than the number who will get very sick and/or die from covid.

Sluggo has absolutely no understanding of how this vaccine works….

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Doesn't anyone feel uncomfortable with taking booster shots, when what you have will stop you from dying and when developing countries still are hugely unvaccinated?

Whether from altruism or the risk of another serious variant springing up?

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4 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Doesn't anyone feel uncomfortable with taking booster shots, when what you have will stop you from dying and when developing countries still are hugely unvaccinated?

Whether from altruism or the risk of another serious variant springing up?

Yes. Phillip Krause ("retires" from the FDA today) wrote in his article in the Lancet 

Even if boosting were eventually shown to decrease the medium-term risk of serious disease, current vaccine supplies could save more lives if used in previously unvaccinated populations than if used as boosters in vaccinated populations.

It was co-signed by Marion Gruber, head of OVRR, various senior WHO officials and a number of highly respected vaccine and infectious disease specialists from around the world.

He went on to conclude at the end of the article:

The vaccines that are currently available are safe, effective, and save lives. The limited supply of these vaccines will save the most lives if made available to people who are at appreciable risk of serious disease and have not yet received any vaccine...If vaccines are deployed where they would do the most good, they could hasten the end of the pandemic by inhibiting further evolution of variants. Indeed, WHO has called for a moratorium on boosting until the benefits of primary vaccination have been made available to more people around the world.

One suspects that the article was not popular with the White House who were strong advocates of booster shots. (Krause announced his retirement shortly thereafter)

Nevertheless, it was a pretty searing inward look at the booster debate and the widespread availability of the vaccines in the US.

The article was also very critical of so called observational studies of the effectiveness of the vaccine...see next post.

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A number of us have been critical of @Kate short for Bob using the increasing absolute number of breakthrough cases as some kind of metric to measure the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines. Various other posters have tried to point out to him that it is only to be expected that the number of breakthrough cases will increase as the number and % of the population vaccinated increases. To no avail!

Krause et al, are critical of such observations, even when based on relative populations.
 

Quote

 

Without any change in vaccine efficacy, increasing success in delivering vaccines to large populations will inevitably lead to increasing numbers of breakthrough cases, especially if vaccination leads to behavioural changes in vaccinees.


Randomised trials are relatively easy to interpret reliably, but there are substantial challenges in estimating vaccine efficacy from observational studies undertaken in the context of rapid vaccine roll-out. Estimates may be confounded both by patient characteristics at the start of vaccine roll-out and by time-varying factors that are missed by electronic health records. For example, those classified as unvaccinated might include some who were in fact vaccinated, some who are already protected because of previous infection, or some whose vaccination was deferred because of COVID-19 symptoms.

..reduced efficacy among people immunised at the beginning of the pandemic could also arise because individuals at high risk of exposure (or of complications)were prioritised for early immunisation ... immunocompromised individuals are plausibly more likely to be offered and seek vaccination even though its efficacy is lower than it is in other people

 

 

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5 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Doesn't anyone feel uncomfortable with taking booster shots, when what you have will stop you from dying and when developing countries still are hugely unvaccinated?

Whether from altruism or the risk of another serious variant springing up?

Be sure not to get one then. Guess you think UK is doing the right thing rationing and only giving kids one shot of AZ.  

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/10/29/world/europe/uk-britain-covid-surge.html

No, I don't.  Selfishly, I prefer a better quality of life than "not dying when I get it." Luck of the birthplace draw. 

BTW, not an excuse but developing countries need cash for public health delivery infrastructure to deploy vaccination not just vaccines. Sending them my 3rd dose does not solve that problem. 

 

 

20211031_104037.jpg

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23 hours ago, TheDragon said:

You volunteering to be part of the unvaccinated control group of covidiots? If so, just please don't ask for medical assistance when you get covid.

Hospice for intentionally unvaxxed / non masked / non distancing severe cases?  Of course, those hospices would not require masks for family and friends.  

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6 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Doesn't anyone feel uncomfortable with taking booster shots, when what you have will stop you from dying and when developing countries still are hugely unvaccinated?

Whether from altruism or the risk of another serious variant springing up?

Three cheers for the vaccine reluctant in America! They are putting all our bodies on the line for altruism. Oh wait, are their shots going anywhere?

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The lack of vaccines in the 3rd world is yet another indictment of the complacency and selfishness we demonstrate in the 1st world.  As the saying goes, none of us is safe until we are all safe, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

Perhaps Elon Musk could use the extra $28B of wealth he accumulated last week to tackle this problem. 

"Looking at data coming from Duke University, just for example, the US paid for enough vaccines for twice its population, the UK paid for enough for four times its population, and Canada for five times its population. So even though the world will have created 11 billion total doses by the end of this year, almost 9.9 billion of those doses have already been promised to higher and upper middle-income countries."

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/podcast/2021/07/30/-absolutely-unacceptable-vaccination-rates-in-developing-countries-the-development-podcast

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6 hours ago, Rain Man said:

The lack of vaccines in the 3rd world is yet another indictment of the complacency and selfishness we demonstrate in the 1st world.  As the saying goes, none of us is safe until we are all safe, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

Perhaps Elon Musk could use the extra $28B of wealth he accumulated last week to tackle this problem. 

"Looking at data coming from Duke University, just for example, the US paid for enough vaccines for twice its population, the UK paid for enough for four times its population, and Canada for five times its population. So even though the world will have created 11 billion total doses by the end of this year, almost 9.9 billion of those doses have already been promised to higher and upper middle-income countries."

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/podcast/2021/07/30/-absolutely-unacceptable-vaccination-rates-in-developing-countries-the-development-podcast

The first defense was containment- that failed

The second defense was public health- worked some places, but not others

The 3rd defense is vaccinations & that is kind of up in the air

So what’s next- free for all zones and safe zones?  Mass migrations between?

 

 

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On 10/31/2021 at 8:41 AM, slug zitski said:

How many kids have died of COVID-19?

Of the 73 million children in the U.S., fewer than 700 have died of COVID-19 during the course of the pandemic, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Kids are like rats.  They might not die of Covid or even get very sick, but they do carry if from place to place and pass on the infection. 

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And the US is letting unvaccinated kiddy tourist rats in to wander freely with their vaxxed parents, just a test 3 or 5 days after arrival. Then what? Like they all are gonna self isolate in a Disney resort? This is politics not public health. 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/Vax-Order-10-30-21-p.pdf

Brits and their rats are all booked for Orlando. Not kidding. Stay away from there if you can. 

 

20211031_195040.jpg

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

Kids are like rats.  They might not die of Covid or even get very sick, but they do carry if from place to place and pass on the infection. 

Fully vaccinated Covid positive people carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated Covid positive 

this is why you have a mask mandate 

vaccinated children are no different 

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42 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Fully vaccinated Covid positive people carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated Covid positive 

this is why you have a mask mandate 

 

Not quite the full story.

We know already that when breakthrough infection occurs, and actual viral load is measured that you can have similar viral loads in breakthrough cases as you do with primary cases.
 
‘However, within days of infection, the viral load in vaccinated people drops much more rapidly and therefore makes them much less likely to transmit and much less likely to be hospitalised or die.
 
‘At diagnosis there may be a similar load but there are dynamic occurrences after that point which lead to vaccinated people having fewer symptoms and being less likely to transmit.’

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/cdc-covid-report-no-cause-for-panic

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5 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Not quite the full story.

We know already that when breakthrough infection occurs, and actual viral load is measured that you can have similar viral loads in breakthrough cases as you do with primary cases.
 
‘However, within days of infection, the viral load in vaccinated people drops much more rapidly and therefore makes them much less likely to transmit and much less likely to be hospitalised or die.
 
‘At diagnosis there may be a similar load but there are dynamic occurrences after that point which lead to vaccinated people having fewer symptoms and being less likely to transmit.’

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/cdc-covid-report-no-cause-for-panic

So this means that the fully vaccinated Covid positive children only have a couple days to infect their home 

sounds good 

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

And the US is letting unvaccinated kiddy tourist rats in to wander freely with their vaxxed parents, just a test 3 or 5 days after arrival. Then what? Like they all are gonna self isolate in a Disney resort? This is politics not public health. 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/pdf/Vax-Order-10-30-21-p.pdf

Brits and their rats are all booked for Orlando. Not kidding. Stay away from there if you can. 

 

20211031_195040.jpg

When was the last time you went to Disneyland?

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34 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

As someone who is immunocompromised you'll be pleased to know that the CDC has approved you getting a fourth dose of Pzifer.

I want Moderna next.  I've had 2 or AZ, 1 of Pfizer.  Only seems feel to share the Australian tax payers money equally between the various companies.  Also makes for an interesting cross ref between side effects.  So far AZ 1 was the worst.

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2 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

I want Moderna next.  I've had 2 or AZ, 1 of Pfizer.  Only seems feel to share the Australian tax payers money equally between the various companies.  Also makes for an interesting cross ref between side effects.  So far AZ 1 was the worst.

I assume you are either taking the piss or immunocompromised or just stupid.

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18 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Doesn't anyone feel uncomfortable with taking booster shots, when what you have will stop you from dying and when developing countries still are hugely unvaccinated?

Whether from altruism or the risk of another serious variant springing up?

Not really. The doses (Pfizer anyway) are the same as the regular 1-2, and the US is tossing out a million doses a week already due to spoilage, etc. So, no, my 1 dose means absolutely nothing, just like me not eating some veggies doesn't feed some kid in Africa.

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On 10/31/2021 at 9:12 AM, slug zitski said:

F43F750C-84C1-417C-BB47-566088518C36.jpeg

Great graph, what does it prove?

Prima face it says that in about 1995, those particular diseases occurred at about 3 or 4 times the rate that they did in 1950. But statistics without the underlying data are useless. Maybe Crohn's disease has gone from one case in 1975 to two cases in 1990 to 4 cases in 2000.

 Some diseases, like Type 1 diabetes, have no known cause (maybe genetic, maybe viral, maybe both…) or cure,  so what does an increasing incidence mean? Crohn's disease is strongly correlated with poor diet and poverty, perhaps increasing incidence in the US points to serious social issues?

Or is there some attempt to correlate the increase in disease incidence with vaccinations? Where is the corroborating evidence showing corresponding vaccination levels, ages, etc.?

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

So this means that the fully vaccinated Covid positive children only have a couple days to infect their home 

sounds good 

No, it means that the fully vaccinated kids are highly unlikely to infect their likely fully vaxxed families.

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Wife and I had a Pfizer booster this morning.  No reaction so far nor did we have any reaction after shots 1 and 2.  She’s out working in the garden

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13 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Wife and I had a Pfizer booster this morning.  No reaction so far nor did we have any reaction after shots 1 and 2.  She’s out working in the garden

I had nothing for 22 hours. Then had the 12 hour general malaise

 

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

I had nothing for 22 hours. Then had the 12 hour general malaise

 

After the first shot I had a mild sore arm.  Absolutely nothing after the 2nd

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I had a 5-day blazing, blinding headache after the second shot.  

I'll be getting the third shot when it becomes available or work demands it.  Whichever comes first.  

It's been mandated by my employer: Get the jab or lose your job.   

(I'd get it regardless).

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On 11/1/2021 at 1:02 PM, Winston29 said:

I had a 5-day blazing, blinding headache after the second shot.  

I'll be getting the third shot when it becomes available or work demands it.  Whichever comes first.  

It's been mandated by my employer: Get the jab or lose your job.   

(I'd get it regardless).

Relax and enjoy  

 You will be getting plenty of shots .

the jab only lasts a few months 

 

“Between early March and Septemper, as the Delta variant rapidly became the dominant strain worldwide, the ability of Moderna's two-dose vaccine to prevent infections dropped from 89% - 58%, Pfizer's went from 87% - 45%, and J&J's single-dose vaccine went from 86% to just 13%.”

2E46016A-7AEA-45A1-AE1D-04B409FCC2CD.jpeg

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Bombed by the Booster. Got the COVID booster and flu vax on Tuesday. Rough night followed. Lucid dreams, then a fever, headache, no sleep. Napping all day yesterday was nice. Now it is merely toying with my nose and throat. Rough, but obviously better than the flu or COVID.

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Corona is just going to be another annual shot like flue vaccines. 

Spike proteins have been around for 20+ years and are well understood.  Once you've developed the vaccine, putting in the annual tweaks is easy. 

I say this as someone who uses aid viruses to program t-cells to kill cancer cells.  

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Just now, Wright Way said:

I don't remember the mandatory bit for the flu shot.

The morbidity and hospitalization rates are a bit different, too.  It should be mandatory if only to keep the ICUs open for illnesses that are harder to prevent or accident.

It's your choice to die of a preventable disease. Just don't hog the medical resources as you do so. Deal?

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3 minutes ago, Elegua said:

It should be mandatory if only to keep the ICUs open for illnesses that are harder to prevent or accident.

So smoking unfit obese people with bullet wounds get first dibs on ICU?

8 minutes ago, Elegua said:

It's your choice to die of a preventable disease

Why don't we mandate some basic levels of healthy living?

Why don't we ban selling unhealthy foods?

Dare I mention Guns?

I got jabbed a long time ago, no problem with that. The other bit, not so much.

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29 minutes ago, Wright Way said:

So smoking unfit obese people with bullet wounds get first dibs on ICU?

Why don't we mandate some basic levels of healthy living?

Why don't we ban selling unhealthy foods?

Dare I mention Guns?

I got jabbed a long time ago, no problem with that. The other bit, not so much.

Meh...good try. 

Jabs are easy to get, highly effective with a low incremental cost once developed and most people can tolerate them whereas solving obesity is hard, the causes myriad, and the treatment expensive and difficult. Solving gun deaths in the US is only partially political because the majority are suicides.  Treating mental health issues is hard and expensive. 

So jabs are cheap, easy, effective and many are already mandatory...so why not? 

I thought you folks were all about cost/benefit? 

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1 hour ago, El Borracho said:

Bombed by the Booster. Got the COVID booster and flu vax on Tuesday. Rough night followed. Lucid dreams, then a fever, headache, no sleep. Napping all day yesterday was nice. Now it is merely toying with my nose and throat. Rough, but obviously better than the flu or COVID.

LOL I just did the same thing. Booster on Wednesday, then yesterday woke up at 3am with slight chills and couldn't sleep. Ached at work all day. By last night all was back to normal.

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3 hours ago, Israel Hands said:
3 hours ago, Wright Way said:

I don't remember the mandatory bit for the flu shot.

That's because the flu isn't a pandemic, duh.

WW also does not apparently work in one of those jobs that require vaccinations or mandate certain medical treatment. For my job, for years I had to show proof of vaccines (including tetanus, I recall) and when going on overseas jobs, I was required to take anti-malaria pills.

FREEDOM, BABY!!

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Israel Hands said:
4 hours ago, El Borracho said:

Bombed by the Booster. Got the COVID booster and flu vax on Tuesday. Rough night followed. Lucid dreams, then a fever, headache, no sleep. Napping all day yesterday was nice. Now it is merely toying with my nose and throat. Rough, but obviously better than the flu or COVID.

LOL I just did the same thing. Booster on Wednesday, then yesterday woke up at 3am with slight chills and couldn't sleep. Ached at work all day. By last night all was back to normal.

That's actually good, it shows your immune system is gearing up to fight.

- DSK

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On 10/30/2021 at 12:45 PM, slug zitski said:

No experimental vaccines 

And children don’t develop Covid disease 

 

 

 

 

 Sluggo;

Shitty boat repair advice.  And now shitty medical advice.  

 

 

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On 10/31/2021 at 10:14 AM, Rain Man said:

The lack of vaccines in the 3rd world is yet another indictment of the complacency and selfishness we demonstrate in the 1st world.  As the saying goes, none of us is safe until we are all safe, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

Perhaps Elon Musk could use the extra $28B of wealth he accumulated last week to tackle this problem. 

"Looking at data coming from Duke University, just for example, the US paid for enough vaccines for twice its population, the UK paid for enough for four times its population, and Canada for five times its population. So even though the world will have created 11 billion total doses by the end of this year, almost 9.9 billion of those doses have already been promised to higher and upper middle-income countries."

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/podcast/2021/07/30/-absolutely-unacceptable-vaccination-rates-in-developing-countries-the-development-podcast

I thought I read that Canada was going to give excess vaccines to other countries- that didn’t transpire?

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

I thought I read that Canada was going to give excess vaccines to other countries- that didn’t transpire?

We gave some but reneged on some too.  We keep promising great things (73 million!) but not delivering.  3.4 million to date.  Not a good look. 

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The COVAX scheme aimed to deliver two billion COVID vaccines to developing countries this year. It's well off-target

3 hours ago
A Maasai woman in a blue face mask gets a needle injected in her arm by a female nurse
The global vaccine rollout is behind in many parts of the world, most notably in Africa.(AP: Brian Inganga)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article
abc.net.au/news/covax-scheme-two-billion-covid-vaccine-developing-world-target/100616646
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The global COVAX scheme launched with a lofty goal: Deliver two billion doses of COVID-19 vaccines, largely to the developing world, by the end of 2021.

Even accounting for that ambitious target, actual progress has been lacklustre. With less than two months until the end of the year, only about a quarter of those two billion doses have actually been shipped.

At the same time, countries in the developed world have moved beyond their initial vaccine rollouts to administering booster doses at home.

The poorest nations have not just been left in the dust, they've been lapped: More booster shots have now been administered in high income countries than the total number of doses given to low income countries since the pandemic began.

And the World Health Organisation has been very critical of the way boosters are being offered.

"The WHO had called for a moratorium on boosters until the end of the year, so we could move those vaccine doses to those countries and to those populations that are still below 4-5 per cent coverage," Chief Scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan said last month.

"Even the frontline workers have not been fully covered."

Catch up on the main COVID-19 news from Saturday, November 13 with a look back at our blog

Delta delays

COVAX deliveries were sluggish for a very long time, and only really sped up in the second half of the year.

More than a quarter of the doses delivered to date were sent out just in the month of October.

That slow beginning was largely caused by the Indian Delta variant outbreak that led the Indian government to prevent exports from manufacturers, which COVAX was relying on for much of its supply.

"The vaccines that they've been producing have all gone to Indians and we don't resent that necessarily, but it has meant that we are well behind in other parts of the world, most notably in Africa," says COVAX co-chair and chair of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations Jane Halton.

"There's a whole swathe of countries where we've made little difference yet in terms of vaccinating those people."

Portrait of Jane Halton
Jane Halton hopes Australia will continue manufacturing vaccines for the global vaccination effort.(Four Corners)

Unequal negotiating power

Another problem was that COVAX struggled against the first world in negotiating contracts.

"We couldn't get the funding we needed fast enough to actually be in the queue early enough, as opposed to some of these high income countries," Halton says.

"If we can fix that, then we can have a purchasing mechanism for low to middle income countries — they can compete on an even footing with the big wealthy countries and that will actually give those countries much more equitable access to vaccines."

One of the countries that has been waiting a very long time is the east African nation of Burundi, which only received its first COVID-19 vaccine doses last month.

"We have been waiting for this ceremony for a long time," the WHO's representative in Burundi, Xavier Crespin, said when the vials arrived. "We thank the donors."

But that donation didn't come through COVAX. The 500,000 Sinopharm vaccines gladly welcomed by Burundi came direct from the Chinese government.

Australia generous on pledges, but slow to deliver

Outside of COVAX, China has been sending its vaccines across the developing world, distributing hundreds of millions in donations and selling hundreds of millions more.

According to the Lowy Institute, it's an approach that Australia has also adopted.

"Australia has been quite generous in terms of the promises that we've made," says Roland Rajah, the Institute's International Economics Program Director.

"Australia is committed to providing roughly two doses for every Australian. That places us second in the world on a per capita basis, only second to the United States, which is promising to provide three doses per American."

But none of those doses are being administered by COVAX, with the Australian government instead making direct donations largely to countries in our region.

"The Australian Government is pretty aware of the national interest case in helping our own region," Rajah says.

"The Pacific Islands are a very vulnerable part of the world ... and of course, looming in the background of all of this is the desire to compete for influence ... with China, which is engaged in its own kinds of vaccine diplomacy throughout the region.

"The only other major donor that looks similar to us in terms of that profile, operating outside of COVAX so much, is China."

That's not necessarily the "best way" of going about things from a "global equity perspective", Rajah adds: "And also, it's not necessarily the most efficient way to bring an end to a global pandemic."

Australia has been slow to deliver on its pledges compared to other nations, Rajah says, with just 8 per cent of its promised doses dispatched to date.

"It's a bit hard to explain why we should be that low when you consider that we've had all this AstraZeneca basically sitting within the national health system going unused."

Australia's local manufacturing of coronavirus vaccines is also set to end when the current 50 million dose contract with CSL is completed.

"I would actually hope that Australia would continue to manufacture and produce vaccine for this global effort," Halton says.

"It may be that we can get enough vaccine from the very large global manufacturers ... but I do think we need to assess this going forward: if we're not hitting the targets we need to hit into the new year, I think we should give that some more thought."

Can we vaccinate the world?

Now that India is allowing vaccine exports again, and COVAX has diversified its vaccine suppliers, things are ramping up quickly. Halton says she hopes that by the end of the year, COVAX will have delivered more than 800 million doses, which would increase "rapidly" in the first three months of 2022. 

Several countries have upped their pledges to the scheme recently, including the United States and Canada, which promised an extra 200 million doses to COVAX at last month's G20 summit.

Meanwhile, the World Health Organisation has set a new target to achieve global vaccine coverage of 70 per cent by mid-2022.

Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
WATCH
Duration: 1 minute 24 seconds1m 24s
 
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WHO blames 'greed' for prolonging the COVID-19 pandemic

About 51 per cent of the world population has received at least one dose of a vaccine, according to figures collated by Our World In Data.

"Between now and the end of this year, we're going to make another three billion doses of vaccine," Dr Bruce Aylward, a senior advisor with the World Health Organisation, said in late October.

"Can we take 550 million doses of that ... and make sure it goes into COVAX and the other mechanisms that can get the equitable distribution that by the end of this year will see more lives saved, more livelihoods on track?"

Another challenge is that many people in the developed world are now just keen to put the pandemic behind them.

"There is a risk that the world basically moves on," Rajah says. "The rich world vaccinates itself, a lot of the upper middle income countries also get vaccinated and everyone forgets right until another problem ... explodes onto the world stage.

"I think we will probably eventually get there. The question is whether or not we get there fast enough and have that sense of urgency."

Rich countries acting like the pandemic is over may have the effect of prolonging the pain for everyone.

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3rd dose this am.  Arm hurt a bit.  Now…… how to put it?  I feel like one of those scientists in a 50’s sci fi movie who ingests his own chemical stew, and starts turning into… something….not…..quite…..human……:lol:.  if only I could take this like McGoohan takes things going fubar in Danger Man, which we are binge watching, but no, this is more like Altered States, ‘The Hulk’, a speedy ‘Flowers for Algernon’, ‘Ant Man’, or maybe James Mason in ‘Larger Than Life’..  My wife said if we need to do this every 6 months, we could at least get God like complete immunity out of it.  Even a minor Greek deity would be ok, like the bastard son or daughter of Apollo.  But no, we are restless spirits posting & tweeting into a breathless am.  This would have been better last night, when 4” of rain was beating the hell out of our metal roof and siding, trees whipping all around and falling down. (Why do we have a keel stepped mast, anyway?) Better emotional tableau at least… and we still need to wear our ASTM 3’s.  Oh joy.

Get your booster!

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On 11/13/2021 at 1:08 PM, ShortForBob said:

The COVAX scheme aimed to deliver two billion COVID vaccines to developing countries this year. It's well off-target

3 hours ago
A Maasai woman in a blue face mask gets a needle injected in her arm by a female nurse
The global vaccine rollout is behind in many parts of the world, most notably in Africa.(AP: Brian Inganga)
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abc.net.au/news/covax-scheme-two-billion-covid-vaccine-developing-world-target/100616646
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The global COVAX scheme launched with a lofty goal: Deliver two billion doses of COVID-19 vaccines, largely to the developing world, by the end of 2021.

Even accounting for that ambitious target, actual progress has been lacklustre. With less than two months until the end of the year, only about a quarter of those two billion doses have actually been shipped.

At the same time, countries in the developed world have moved beyond their initial vaccine rollouts to administering booster doses at home.

The poorest nations have not just been left in the dust, they've been lapped: More booster shots have now been administered in high income countries than the total number of doses given to low income countries since the pandemic began.

And the World Health Organisation has been very critical of the way boosters are being offered.

"The WHO had called for a moratorium on boosters until the end of the year, so we could move those vaccine doses to those countries and to those populations that are still below 4-5 per cent coverage," Chief Scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan said last month.

"Even the frontline workers have not been fully covered."

Catch up on the main COVID-19 news from Saturday, November 13 with a look back at our blog

Delta delays

COVAX deliveries were sluggish for a very long time, and only really sped up in the second half of the year.

More than a quarter of the doses delivered to date were sent out just in the month of October.

That slow beginning was largely caused by the Indian Delta variant outbreak that led the Indian government to prevent exports from manufacturers, which COVAX was relying on for much of its supply.

"The vaccines that they've been producing have all gone to Indians and we don't resent that necessarily, but it has meant that we are well behind in other parts of the world, most notably in Africa," says COVAX co-chair and chair of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations Jane Halton.

"There's a whole swathe of countries where we've made little difference yet in terms of vaccinating those people."

Portrait of Jane Halton
Jane Halton hopes Australia will continue manufacturing vaccines for the global vaccination effort.(Four Corners)

Unequal negotiating power

Another problem was that COVAX struggled against the first world in negotiating contracts.

"We couldn't get the funding we needed fast enough to actually be in the queue early enough, as opposed to some of these high income countries," Halton says.

"If we can fix that, then we can have a purchasing mechanism for low to middle income countries — they can compete on an even footing with the big wealthy countries and that will actually give those countries much more equitable access to vaccines."

One of the countries that has been waiting a very long time is the east African nation of Burundi, which only received its first COVID-19 vaccine doses last month.

"We have been waiting for this ceremony for a long time," the WHO's representative in Burundi, Xavier Crespin, said when the vials arrived. "We thank the donors."

But that donation didn't come through COVAX. The 500,000 Sinopharm vaccines gladly welcomed by Burundi came direct from the Chinese government.

Australia generous on pledges, but slow to deliver

Outside of COVAX, China has been sending its vaccines across the developing world, distributing hundreds of millions in donations and selling hundreds of millions more.

According to the Lowy Institute, it's an approach that Australia has also adopted.

"Australia has been quite generous in terms of the promises that we've made," says Roland Rajah, the Institute's International Economics Program Director.

"Australia is committed to providing roughly two doses for every Australian. That places us second in the world on a per capita basis, only second to the United States, which is promising to provide three doses per American."

But none of those doses are being administered by COVAX, with the Australian government instead making direct donations largely to countries in our region.

"The Australian Government is pretty aware of the national interest case in helping our own region," Rajah says.

"The Pacific Islands are a very vulnerable part of the world ... and of course, looming in the background of all of this is the desire to compete for influence ... with China, which is engaged in its own kinds of vaccine diplomacy throughout the region.

"The only other major donor that looks similar to us in terms of that profile, operating outside of COVAX so much, is China."

That's not necessarily the "best way" of going about things from a "global equity perspective", Rajah adds: "And also, it's not necessarily the most efficient way to bring an end to a global pandemic."

Australia has been slow to deliver on its pledges compared to other nations, Rajah says, with just 8 per cent of its promised doses dispatched to date.

"It's a bit hard to explain why we should be that low when you consider that we've had all this AstraZeneca basically sitting within the national health system going unused."

Australia's local manufacturing of coronavirus vaccines is also set to end when the current 50 million dose contract with CSL is completed.

"I would actually hope that Australia would continue to manufacture and produce vaccine for this global effort," Halton says.

"It may be that we can get enough vaccine from the very large global manufacturers ... but I do think we need to assess this going forward: if we're not hitting the targets we need to hit into the new year, I think we should give that some more thought."

Can we vaccinate the world?

Now that India is allowing vaccine exports again, and COVAX has diversified its vaccine suppliers, things are ramping up quickly. Halton says she hopes that by the end of the year, COVAX will have delivered more than 800 million doses, which would increase "rapidly" in the first three months of 2022. 

Several countries have upped their pledges to the scheme recently, including the United States and Canada, which promised an extra 200 million doses to COVAX at last month's G20 summit.

Meanwhile, the World Health Organisation has set a new target to achieve global vaccine coverage of 70 per cent by mid-2022.

Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
WATCH
Duration: 1 minute 24 seconds1m 24s
 
Play Video. Duration: 1 minute 24 seconds
WHO blames 'greed' for prolonging the COVID-19 pandemic

About 51 per cent of the world population has received at least one dose of a vaccine, according to figures collated by Our World In Data.

"Between now and the end of this year, we're going to make another three billion doses of vaccine," Dr Bruce Aylward, a senior advisor with the World Health Organisation, said in late October.

"Can we take 550 million doses of that ... and make sure it goes into COVAX and the other mechanisms that can get the equitable distribution that by the end of this year will see more lives saved, more livelihoods on track?"

Another challenge is that many people in the developed world are now just keen to put the pandemic behind them.

"There is a risk that the world basically moves on," Rajah says. "The rich world vaccinates itself, a lot of the upper middle income countries also get vaccinated and everyone forgets right until another problem ... explodes onto the world stage.

"I think we will probably eventually get there. The question is whether or not we get there fast enough and have that sense of urgency."

Rich countries acting like the pandemic is over may have the effect of prolonging the pain for everyone.

Is India a rich nation?  Is China wrong to distribute?  Etc etc.  This is a mess.  Most rich countries can’t deal with COVID.  Everyone forgets?  Reading this article, it doesn’t seem possible to do the right thing.  I urge my Senators and representative (Dems)  to do the right thing, they try, and the Republicans do everything they can to sabotage it.  I give money to all sorts of world organizations for COVID, and mainly what I hear is how they just can’t get it done.  But this is typical of reaction to so many world wide medical issues, and even if there’s a successful campaign, there are always groups who fight it, and things that should be dormant spring back.  I’d like to think we can adapt, but as this ^^^ points out, I fear we can’t.  Power is elsewhere.  Right now, destruction is power.  I hope that changes.  

A wifull minority is acting like the pandemic is over, and they are controlling the outcome, not the majority who understand what has been, and what will be necessary.

Containment failed

Public health only works in certain places

pandemic has become endemic

vaccines are defense, not offense

things are going to get worse

i wish this weren’t true.   But the horsemen of the apocalypse ride even on this forum.  

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Got two letters for us saying we can now book our boosters..

Went online to do so..

we were offered jabs at sites which according to them just 41 miles away....

 

Only it's not...

 

 

 

They're 241 miles away...

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3 minutes ago, Amati said:

Is India a rich nation?

Some of the Richest men in the world reside there ,

 

as do plenty of the poorest .

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5 minutes ago, The Q said:

Got two letters for us saying we can now book our boosters..

Went online to do so..

we were offered jabs at sites which according to them just 41 miles away....

 

Only it's not...

 

 

 

They're 241 miles away...

Jesus that’s awful…. 

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On 11/11/2021 at 9:49 AM, Elegua said:

Meh...good try. 

Jabs are easy to get, highly effective with a low incremental cost once developed and most people can tolerate them whereas solving obesity is hard, the causes myriad, and the treatment expensive and difficult. Solving gun deaths in the US is only partially political because the majority are suicides.  Treating mental health issues is hard and expensive. 

So jabs are cheap, easy, effective and many are already mandatory...so why not? 

I thought you folks were all about cost/benefit? 

They are moral imbeciles.  (Quoting John Drake, ‘Danger Man’)

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12 minutes ago, Amati said:

Jesus that’s awful…. 

Yep will contact our local surgery (4 miles away) directly so see what they can do..

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1 minute ago, The Q said:

Yep will contact our local surgery (4 miles away) directly so see what they can do..

It’s sad that you have to hunt around for the right people for this, of all things.  But on our way to the mass booster site this am, in crappy weather, there were unmasked anti vaccers about.  <_<

1 minute ago, The Q said:
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1 hour ago, The Q said:

Got two letters for us saying we can now book our boosters..

Went online to do so..

we were offered jabs at sites which according to them just 41 miles away....

 

Only it's not...

 

 

 

They're 241 miles away...

At the other end of the country then? :D

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2 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

At the other end of the country then? :D

Certainly out of county, it's one one occasion taken us 7 hours to reach a place nearby...

Over half the journey time to leave England , just under a third of the way to the top of Scotland.

or half the distance to lands end..

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I had to go to Puerto Rico for the booster so that my travel documents are up to date 

In the us I wasn’t old enough, sick enough , special enough to qualify 

the same routine for the initial vaccination ..in the US I didn’t qualify , so I went to Puerto Rico 

think of this when they tell you about vaccine hesitancy 

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

I had to go to Puerto Rico for the booster so that my travel documents are up to date 

In the us I wasn’t old enough, sick enough , special enough to qualify 

the same routine for the initial vaccination ..in the US I didn’t qualify , so I went to Puerto Rico 

think of this when they tell you about vaccine hesitancy 

Initial vaccinations were freed up to all adults in the US fairly early in the process. Not sure why you had to go to Puerto Rico.

Boosters have similarly been freed up in a lot of states now.

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2 minutes ago, accnick said:

Initial vaccinations were freed up to all adults in the US fairly early in the process. Not sure why you had to go to Puerto Rico.

Boosters have similarly been freed up in a lot of states now.

You are out of touch 

In the last week of February two states turned me down for the original vaccination 

residency 

age , health 

and remember …equity ?

I was vaccinated on the first week of March in Puerto Rico … no hassles 

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The same routine with the booster 

I flew from Madrid to Baltimore 

While  in Baltimore I tried to register for the booster online 

not available , I visited the pharmacy and asked in person 

not possible 

I called Puerto Rico … yes , Tuesday’s and Thursday’s 

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