The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

[Varan 2,137]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:46 PM, Al Paca said:

Inquired at my local pharmacy late last week about the getting the booster.  Girl said waiting for a “go” from Cent Comm. 

Weird... I live in the middle of nowhere, 1/2 drive anywhere, gasoline, groceries, vaccines, whatever. Our closest drug store, aka pharmacy, offers Moderna on Tuesdays, Pfizer on Wednesdays,  J&J on Thursdays, 10am until 2pm. First shot, second, booster, no matter, as long as you are 18+ or accompanied by an adult. 

Problem we have is finding people willing to take the shot. Made me feel real guilty getting a booster when on other parts of earth are seeking whatever vaccine they can get their arms in, or maybe the other way around.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Problem is the shot we don't take here in US will just expire. 

Send money to UNICEF or some international vaccine effort. Australia has a pay it forward thing.  

[SCARECROW 735]

5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Problem is the shot we don't take here in US will just expire. 

Send money to UNICEF or some international vaccine effort. Australia has a pay it forward thing.  

Yep when I was in the GP waiting room after getting my booster the receptionist was doing a client ring around because they’d had 2 no-shows so had two doses that would go in the bin in a couple of hours if the couldn’t find a shoulder to put them in.

[The Q 795]

On 11/18/2021 at 7:55 AM, animeproblem said:

Had go to a little clinic close to my place (cut the crap out of my left knee with the worlds most dangerous angle grinder) & was a bit dumbfounded by the gal doing the wound cleaning when she said she's already had a booster & she is 10 years younger than me.

Still, November would be the sixth month since full protection by the initial 2 pfizer doses I had so I am willing to wait a little longer, do want to have the old immune system up to max for Easter/SakuraCon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did however get a bright shiny new tetanus jab!

Ouch.. my padded winter overalls  stopped damage to me this weekend from a Bosch nano bade saw.. but wouldn't stop an angle grinder..

Medical staff were almost first on the list to be offered jabs in the first round, so they get first boosters. You don't need medicos getting covid...

Finally we've got a local appointments for boosters, 11th Dec. That's the problem living in the area with the oldest population in the UK, there's a lot of people in front of us on the list, our average age here is 58 against a national average of 40...

[animeproblem 276]

17 minutes ago, The Q said:

Ouch.. my padded winter overalls  stopped damage to me this weekend from a Bosch nano bade saw.. but wouldn't stop an angle grinder..

Medical staff were almost first on the list to be offered jabs in the first round, so they get first boosters. You don't need medicos getting covid...

Finally we've got a local appointments for boosters, 11th Dec. That's the problem living in the area with the oldest population in the UK, there's a lot of people in front of me on the list, our average age here is 58 against a national average of 40...

As dangerous as that little Dewalt is (paddle switch broken off, grinder is locked on) it's kind of amazing that I've been using it since 2003 & this would be the 1st time I got bit!

Pretty sure you have right of it regarding med staff, but she made it sound like all I had to do was ask (maybe whine a bit), moot anyway now since it's wide open for over 18.

On another front Sakura Con finally has posted COVID 19 policies which include proof of vaccine or negative test & masked at all times unless eating or drinking.

[fastyacht 2,603]

Just got mine. pril wasc2nd shot. Now Dec is 3rd. I followed the advice of my 81 year old public health pro cousin. The big unspoke. Issue really is tgat vaccine efficacy has a rouglly 6 month half life. You need the booster.

[fastyacht 2,603]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:07 AM, The Q said:

on the list, our average age here is 58 against a national average of 40...

Uk avg age 40? Surprised not higher. Thank god for immigration.

[danstanford 130]

On 11/20/2021 at 7:38 PM, weightless said:

Dunno if that's of much significance. I gather that antibody levels are one of those things where a useful signal can be found in a large population but not at the individual level. According to the CDC antibody tests should not be used to assess immunity to COVID.

It feels like a gamble on the basis of a series of WAGs to me, but now that I qualify I'll be boosting my Pfizer -- probably with another of the same.

I think if you read the info from the FDA you will discover that the real reason they don't want you using the antibody tests is that it may prompt you to take more risk in your behaviors around Covid protection. Yup, it pisses me off to live in a world with so much spin of vital information. 

[weightless 709]

25 minutes ago, danstanford said:

I think if you read the info from the FDA you will discover that the real reason they don't want you using the antibody tests is that it may prompt you to take more risk in your behaviors around Covid protection. Yup, it pisses me off to live in a world with so much spin of vital information. 

I agree about the spin from the public health folks. I think they do themselves and society long term harm when they use spin that isn't well founded in fact because they believe it will influence short term behavior. I have an epic rant on this but I'll spare you.

On the specific point, however, the discussions I've heard, mostly on TWiV, suggest to me that individual variance in antibody levels is very high and what individual levels go with what individual protection isn't well understood. Immune systems are absurdly complicated. Details of how they work differ in individuals.  Perhaps having a diversity of responses to disease in the population has had evolutionary benefits. In any case, "high" antibody levels may be better correlates of protection in some folks than in others. Or at least "the science" doesn't seem to have gotten to a good answer to what a given value of "high" is yet. In fairness to the public health folks, the science isn't likely to get to a good answer for years and public health decisions can't wait. Also, I suspect there are technical questions about the antibody tests themselves. Are they calibrated, repeatable, reliable, etc.  A cautious approach to antibody testing as a proxy for protection doesn't seem out of line to me.

[fastyacht 2,603]

The "science" is largely empirical. Hey, so is the science of naval architecture. It is still science. But it lacks rigorous understanding. We don't have time to figure it all out yet.

[dacapo 1,585]

Boosted a few weeks ago.  Ill do it every 6 months if need be. It doesn’t hurt and I was only mildly cranky the next day (built in excuse to take a day off of work) and I sure as fuck don’t want to  get Covid again

 

[fastyacht 2,603]

We will *all* get it eventually. The wuestion is whether with lomg term harm or not. This os wjy the anciety.

[TheDragon 905]

No need for anxiety, just get the shots, three or more if necessary, live life to the fullest. Going kiting again this afternoon in Cape Town, life is good. Omicron be damned.

[Grog 790]

Got the booster today, still playing for Team BioNTech, now leading Team Covid by three to naught.

Also, I still need to pick up my phone for calls, SatNav or playing music on the car stereo, service still is 4G/LTE at best. Promises, promises ... 

 

[accnick 1,753]

14 minutes ago, Grog said:

Got the booster today, still playing for Team BioNTech, now leading Team Covid by three to naught.

Also, I still need to pick up my phone for calls, SatNav or playing music on the car stereo, service still is 4G/LTE at best. Promises, promises ... 

 

Just be patient and wait for the nanobots to kick in. Reception will get better.

[The Q 795]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:20 PM, fastyacht said:

Uk avg age 40? Surprised not higher. Thank god for immigration.

Average age white British, 42

Average age black, 30

Average age asian 30

Average age other 29

Average age mixed race 18.

It shows that despite immigration, the population of the UK is 86% white. 7.5 % Asian, and only 3.3% black..

 

Meanwhile we did get bill gates chip V3.0 on the 11th, I felt quite weak for a couple of days after..

My parents finally got theirs on the 14th only after the intervention of an MSP who my sister knew. There seems to have been a major cockup with the administration of jabs for the house bound, not just in Scotland where my parents are, but in England as well according to the TV..

[Grog 790]

35 minutes ago, accnick said:

Just be patient and wait for the nanobots to kick in. Reception will get better.

OK, will do.

I just expected them to boot and connect a little bit faster, being 5G and Bill's latest and finest?

 

[accnick 1,753]

50 minutes ago, Grog said:

OK, will do.

I just expected them to boot and connect a little bit faster, being 5G and Bill's latest and finest?

 

There's the flaw in your thinking.

I got notice of a software update yesterday via my left ear. Scheduled to install overnight tonight.

 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Trump and O'Reilly get booed for getting boosted. Trump tries to spin vax as positive accomplishment. Too late you psycho fucker. 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-tells-audience-he-got-covid-19-booster-shot-crowd-boos-him-20211221-p59j5f.html

[Raz'r 5,219]

This is encouraging.  If boosted, 1/10th the risk of getting the virus, 1/60th the chance of dying, vs being unvaxxed...

[d'ranger 4,362]

6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

This is encouraging.  If boosted, 1/10th the risk of getting the virus, 1/60th the chance of dying, vs being unvaxxed...

That's because all the weak ones died from the vaccine.  (this is purple for anyone color blind).

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:14 PM, accnick said:

On 12/18/2021 at 2:20 PM, Grog said:

I just expected them to boot and connect a little bit faster, being 5G and Bill's latest and finest?

 

There's the flaw in your thinking.

I got notice of a software update yesterday via my left ear. Scheduled to install overnight tonight.

Nice upgrade in the music channel, surround sound with a subwoofer.

- DSK

[Grog 790]

17 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nice upgrade in the music channel, surround sound with a subwoofer.

- DSK

Now that might explain my acute loss of hearing in my right ear last saturday? They should spend some more to adjust the levels; really not looking forward to boost that one!

Or maybe I was just a little stressed out. Anyway, we've closed shop until 10 January '22, so I might just take in some social reefs and turn my attention to some balsa planes that are sitting on the shelves waiting to be finished...

 

[jerseyguy 1,714]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:12 PM, NeedAClew said:

Trump and O'Reilly get booed for getting boosted. Trump tries to spin vax as positive accomplishment. Too late you psycho fucker. 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-tells-audience-he-got-covid-19-booster-shot-crowd-boos-him-20211221-p59j5f.html

Those two bozos are lucky that the movement/mob TFG created didn’t January 6 them

[boomer 1,373]

We're well into the third variant, which means Covid won't be going away in what's left of our lifetime, there is no viable reason not to get the vaccine, including all straw-man arguments.

My wife and I got boosted at the end of October. When the next shot is needed, we'll be lining up.

Still isolating and limiting our trips out, always masking, and double masked when we went in for the vaccine or going inside anywhere there's people and hand washing afterwards.

Hope this new far more effective vaccine is available then. US Army Creates Single Vaccine Against All COVID & SARS Variants  It appears it gives the potential to "pan neutralise", beyond the 24. To make it simple, if you were to give spike A and B, the immune system would make antibodies specific against A and B, but also that binds area common to A and B. By having A and B on the same molecule, the "ball", A and B are close to one another. It makes antibody that can binds either A or B more efficient in binding over only A or only B. Common A/B binding-antibodies are then favored.

Now do it for 24, you increases drastically the chances to target area highly conserved, on which immune pressure will have less effects (less mutations potential). You end up with antibodies that have a higher chance to block any strains or even Sarbecoviruses. 24 means a lot of conserved areas across multiple different virus will be favored instead of 24 single set of antibodies. With the immunity favoring conserved area, you gear up for more than the 24 initial set.

 

The real beauty here is, there just aren't that many versions of the spike protein. So multiple strains will all use very similar spikes.

 

That's why the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 all targeted the spike protein. It's generally pretty stable because its hard for the virus to mutate a different shape that will still work.

That's also one of the main reasons that Omicron is scary. It has a significant number of mutations in the part that's used to bind to cells, which was the part that we protected against.

A promising material for making masks is Electroceutical fabric eradicates coronaviruses on contact.

The electroceutical technology offers clinicians a non-antibiotic solution for infection risk reduction and potentially increases its value for use in face masks and possibly other surface treatments.

[Rain Man 1,992]

Finally received my booster appointment booking invitation this morning.  Booked for tomorrow afternoon.  Maybe now a long stay in the sun may become a reality.

[Zonker 5,254]

Can I ask how old are you? Looking forward to my chance.

[Rain Man 1,992]

7 hours ago, Zonker said:

Can I ask how old are you? Looking forward to my chance.

64.  

[AJ Oliver 1,926]

40 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

64.  

Just a kid. 

[Amati 1,852]

On 12/25/2021 at 11:39 PM, boomer said:

We're well into the third variant, which means Covid won't be going away in what's left of our lifetime, there is no viable reason not to get the vaccine, including all straw-man arguments.

My wife and I got boosted at the end of October. When the next shot is needed, we'll be lining up.

Still isolating and limiting our trips out, always masking, and double masked when we went in for the vaccine or going inside anywhere there's people and hand washing afterwards.

Hope this new far more effective vaccine is available then. US Army Creates Single Vaccine Against All COVID & SARS Variants  It appears it gives the potential to "pan neutralise", beyond the 24. To make it simple, if you were to give spike A and B, the immune system would make antibodies specific against A and B, but also that binds area common to A and B. By having A and B on the same molecule, the "ball", A and B are close to one another. It makes antibody that can binds either A or B more efficient in binding over only A or only B. Common A/B binding-antibodies are then favored.

Now do it for 24, you increases drastically the chances to target area highly conserved, on which immune pressure will have less effects (less mutations potential). You end up with antibodies that have a higher chance to block any strains or even Sarbecoviruses. 24 means a lot of conserved areas across multiple different virus will be favored instead of 24 single set of antibodies. With the immunity favoring conserved area, you gear up for more than the 24 initial set.

 

The real beauty here is, there just aren't that many versions of the spike protein. So multiple strains will all use very similar spikes.

 

That's why the mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 all targeted the spike protein. It's generally pretty stable because its hard for the virus to mutate a different shape that will still work.

That's also one of the main reasons that Omicron is scary. It has a significant number of mutations in the part that's used to bind to cells, which was the part that we protected against.

A promising material for making masks is Electroceutical fabric eradicates coronaviruses on contact.

The electroceutical technology offers clinicians a non-antibiotic solution for infection risk reduction and potentially increases its value for use in face masks and possibly other surface treatments.

Sounds promising- I could find masks on the site, is this an order the patches and dyi?

How different is this from electrostatic n95 / n98 masks?

[Monkey 2,380]

I got my booster shot this morning and now totally understand the anti-vaxxers!  For starters, it took almost ten minutes from start to finish. I don’t have time for that. On top of that, it was free. I can’t afford this shit. Then, those assholes gave me a coupon for 15% off on anything I bought in the store!  Must be a scam!  Oh, and I didn’t die. 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

1 hour ago, Monkey said:

I got my booster shot this morning and now totally understand the anti-vaxxers!  For starters, it took almost ten minutes from start to finish. I don’t have time for that. On top of that, it was free. I can’t afford this shit. Then, those assholes gave me a coupon for 15% off on anything I bought in the store!  Must be a scam!  Oh, and I didn’t die. 

Has the third eye on a stalk started forming yet?

- DSK

[Zonker 5,254]

Thanks Rain. I'm 55 so probably we'll into Jan for me. 

[Monkey 2,380]

20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Has the third eye on a stalk started forming yet?

- DSK

You’re mixing up the shots. I grew the third eye after the first two Phizer shots. I got Moderna for the booster. Now I’ve grown a tail. 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

4 minutes ago, Monkey said:

20 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Has the third eye on a stalk started forming yet?

You’re mixing up the shots. I grew the third eye after the first two Phizer shots. I got Moderna for the booster. Now I’ve grown a tail. 

With the prehensile upgrade, I hope

- DSK

[boomer 1,373]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:56 AM, Amati said:

Sounds promising- I could find masks on the site, is this an order the patches and dyi?

How different is this from electrostatic n95 / n98 masks?

Yes a DYI - wise to buy 3M electrostatic n95 masks.

 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

Interesting news from Israel

I think I'll wait for my booster. It may be the last we can have for 12 months and the end of this could be years away.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-31/israel-orders-another-booster-to-fight-omicron/100730338

Excerpt

Studies have shown those vaccinated with a third shot have a stronger immune response against Omicron than those vaccinated with only two doses. 

However, Israeli researchers have noted a significant fading in immunity among the triple-vaccinated in the four months after the third shot. 

Similarly, a briefing published by the UK's Health Security Agency before Christmas suggested booster shots lost up to 25 per cent effectiveness against Omicron after just 10 weeks.

The waning of immunity from boosters has not extinguished hopes the fourth shot might give the strongest immune response yet in both the number and quality of antibodies it generates.

But the opposite could also happen. One possible scenario is that the fourth dose doesn't do anything to protect the vulnerable against Omicron in the same way the third did against Delta, according to Daniel Cohen, a professor of epidemiology and preventive medicine at Tel Aviv University.

Another possible downside to a fourth shot is the chance repeated vaccination could somehow wear out the body's immune response, which has been sometimes observed in other multiple-dose vaccines.

[Amati 1,852]

On 12/30/2021 at 2:33 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Has the third eye on a stalk started forming yet?

- DSK

I’m reading this stereo-optically behind my head!

[Amati 1,852]

17 hours ago, boomer said:

Yes a DYI - wise to buy 3M electrostatic n95 masks.

 

Have been going with Armbruster since the beginning- you might find this site interesting- they were on top of masking since the very beginning, when dyi ( here in WA USA ) was forced on us.  Oops! I’ll post the link in a few minutes…

here-

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/comparison-mask-standards-rating-effectiveness/

[boomer 1,373]

13 hours ago, Amati said:

Have been going with Armbruster since the beginning- you might find this site interesting- they were on top of masking since the very beginning, when dyi ( here in WA USA ) was forced on us.  Oops! I’ll post the link in a few minutes…

here-

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/comparison-mask-standards-rating-effectiveness/

We've been using various 3M n95 from the 9010 to the 8010 masks with a tight weave cloth mask with a filter pocket over, since 2/07/2020.

[ShortForBob 2,962]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:30 AM, slug zitski said:

I tried to get the booster , moderna , today … but was rejected 

I have no co morbidities 

no exemption for seaman who will be out of the country for several months 

this is unfortunate and overly bureaucratic 

Maybe someone there is a poster here

[ShortForBob 2,962]

I've cancelled my booster shot.

If this third shot's efficacy fades after 10-12 weeks. That will be right on my departure to Greece. A 4th shot? no way.

I'll wait and see what next month brings and take the risk with Omicron. 

[00seven 434]

1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

I've cancelled my booster shot.

If this third shot's efficacy fades after 10-12 weeks. That will be right on my departure to Greece. A 4th shot? no way.

I'll wait and see what next month brings and take the risk with Omicron. 

You're just like Randy. You hadn't had your 2nd AZ in August.

[ShortForBob 2,962]

Just now, 00seven said:

You're just like Randy. You hadn't had your 2nd AZ in August.

Yes I did. 26th

[00seven 434]

[Mid 4,425]

ain't SA romances cute ?

[ShortForBob 2,962]

8 minutes ago, Mid said:

ain't SA romances cute ?

I must have spurned Grumpy at some time, but I'm sure I don't recall.

[Amati 1,852]

6 hours ago, boomer said:

We've been using various 3M n95 from the 9010 to the 8010 masks with a tight weave cloth mask with a filter pocket over, since 2/07/2020.

What’s a filter pocket?

[accnick 1,753]

1 hour ago, Amati said:

What’s a filter pocket?

A pouch sewn into a cloth mask for the addition of a replaceable filter. Don't ask me where you get those filters: I don't know.

[d'ranger 4,362]

20 minutes ago, accnick said:

A pouch sewn into a cloth mask for the addition of a replaceable filter. Don't ask me where you get those filters: I don't know.

Way back in the old days (like 2 years ago) before masks were very available and people were using bandanas coffee filters were being touted. No idea if that was effective, of course I adhere to anything is better than nothing.

[Rain Man 1,992]

Day 3 after half dose Moderna booster.  Arm is still sore, no other issues.  Definitely not interested in another booster in three months.  Let's hope omicron turns out to be a bad flu.

[Amati 1,852]

55 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Way back in the old days (like 2 years ago) before masks were very available and people were using bandanas coffee filters were being touted. No idea if that was effective, of course I adhere to anything is better than nothing.

Actually some bandana material and wool scarves break up phlegm upon exhaling through them, making the pieces of goo smaller and instead of dropping, floating farther through the air. Coffee filters weren’t bad.  Kind of hard to breath through. There was testing at the time, of all sorts of dyi material at Cambridge U, based on SARS 2 partial size, but it was pretty much ignored. (Perils of the Internet, I guess) Tea towels & shop towels scored pretty well on filtering and breathability.  Even some paper towels.  

[Amati 1,852]

1 hour ago, accnick said:

A pouch sewn into a cloth mask for the addition of a replaceable filter. Don't ask me where you get those filters: I don't know.

We had some from Britain, but British experience didn’t go so well, since there was only partial coverage with the patches.  You could feel the inhaled air going around the edges.

[Grog 790]

FWIW, I have stocked up with 3M Aura 9320+ FFP2s which won a test of 20 or so masks because of fit, filtration and breathability (is that a word?).

They have two durable head bands made from some sort of non-allergic rubber, a sturdy piece of metal to shape a close fit around the nose and a proper seal inside the upper part. They fit firmly (tighter that just snug), seal well (Glasses don't fog up) and when clean shaven, they actually filter odors like deos or smoke.

I use them when I have to wade through crowded places and so far they seem to be holding up well.

 

For working with nasty chemicals I keep a Dräger X-plore 3500 with the "big" filters, which handle just about anything except CO and nuclear radiation, but that one still seems a bit over the top for groceries ... the Darth Vader-ish look might actually freak some people out, wouldn't it?

 

[boomer 1,373]

5 hours ago, Amati said:

What’s a filter pocket?

Another layer of cloth on the inside of a cloth mask to accept a filter. Initially till my wife found a couple boxes of 3M masks two years ago, we wore a the widest type of face mask with 600 thread count, with these extra layer of material to accept a large wide filter. We'd stick a cut down HEPA filter to size, to fit in these pockets, the pocket was a wide total face covering to match the cloth masks, there was no noticeable air escapage, because I checked.

Been using the cloth mask without a filter over the electrostatic 3M n95 mask, since the Delta Variant came on last summer, and double-masked, any time before that the past two years, when going into a building or going to the doctors office.

We didn't wait to be told to mask in March of 2020, because my wife I started masking, gloving up and carrying extra hand sanitizer in our vehicles at the end of January of 2020. My wife whom went out more frequently for groceries was stripping out of her clothes outside the utility room, before coming in the house, as would I - after my rare once a week foray's out for filming, or photo shoot or shooting HD video with a drone. When people would come over or I'd go to old friends and workmates homes, we've sat down outside, with a crossing wind - if it's cooler, we dress appropriately.

My wife and I also have North 7700 Series Niosh-Approved respirators, and both Particulate and Combo Organic Vapor & P100 Particulate Filter Cartridge, but haven't had to use then unless epoxying or painting inside or any task where a respirator is required.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

3 hours ago, Amati said:

Actually some bandana material and wool scarves break up phlegm upon exhaling through them, making the pieces of goo smaller and instead of dropping, floating farther through the air. Coffee filters weren’t bad.  Kind of hard to breath through. There was testing at the time, of all sorts of dyi material at Cambridge U, based on SARS 2 partial size, but it was pretty much ignored. (Perils of the Internet, I guess) Tea towels & shop towels scored pretty well on filtering and breathability.  Even some paper towels.  

High filtration vacuum cleaner bags. Got some, thought NAH if it's that bad at Safeway I am getting delivery. This was Spring 2020. 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

some may find this helpful

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/omicron-chart-protection-2-3-vaccine-booster-effectiveness-hospitalization-symptomatic-2022-1?r=US&IR=T

and the whole report

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044481/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

[Rain Man 1,992]

1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

some may find this helpful

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/omicron-chart-protection-2-3-vaccine-booster-effectiveness-hospitalization-symptomatic-2022-1?r=US&IR=T

and the whole report

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044481/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

Thanks for posting that.  For the TLDR and anti-vaxxers here:  

In this analysis, the risk of hospitalisation is lower for Omicron cases after 2 and 3 doses of vaccine, with an 81% (77 to 85%) reduction in the risk of hospitalisation after 3 doses compared to unvaccinated Omicron cases.

After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period). Combined with the protection against becoming a symptomatic case, this gives a vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation of 88% (78 to 93%) for Omicron after 3 doses of vaccine.

Quite a large sample group, coming from the UK which has had a lot of cases.

[ShortForBob 2,962]

9 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Thanks for posting that.  For the TLDR and anti-vaxxers here:  

In this analysis, the risk of hospitalisation is lower for Omicron cases after 2 and 3 doses of vaccine, with an 81% (77 to 85%) reduction in the risk of hospitalisation after 3 doses compared to unvaccinated Omicron cases.

After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period). Combined with the protection against becoming a symptomatic case, this gives a vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation of 88% (78 to 93%) for Omicron after 3 doses of vaccine.

Quite a large sample group, coming from the UK which has had a lot of cases.

But it also notes that like others, a booster loses efficacy after ten weeks. 

Symptomatic cases were then linked to hospitalisation data. After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period). Combined with the protection against becoming a symptomatic case, this gives a vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation of 88% (78 to 93%) for Omicron after 3 doses of vaccine. Although waning is seen in the effectiveness against symptomatic disease, there is insufficient data to assess the duration of protection against hospitalisation, which is expected to last longer.

So those that got a booster over 10 weeks ago may be due for a fourth?

 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

In the same analysis published Thursday, the agency found the effectiveness of Moderna’s booster paired with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine held at 70 to 75% for up to 9 weeks, though not many people in the study received this regimen, which could affect the accuracy of the finding.

For those fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca’s vaccine, booster effectiveness dropped from 60% to 35% with a Pfizer booster and to 45% with a Moderna booster after 10 weeks, the UKHSA said.

Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute, said on Twitter Thursday that the UK findings were a “replication” of what has been seen in Israel.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-long-does-booster-protection-omicron-covid-last-study-2021-12

[Rain Man 1,992]

1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

In the same analysis published Thursday, the agency found the effectiveness of Moderna’s booster paired with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine held at 70 to 75% for up to 9 weeks, though not many people in the study received this regimen, which could affect the accuracy of the finding.

For those fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca’s vaccine, booster effectiveness dropped from 60% to 35% with a Pfizer booster and to 45% with a Moderna booster after 10 weeks, the UKHSA said.

Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute, said on Twitter Thursday that the UK findings were a “replication” of what has been seen in Israel.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-long-does-booster-protection-omicron-covid-last-study-2021-12

Well, that's somewhat encouraging.  Most people here in BC (myself included) are or will be Pfizer x 2 + Moderna booster.  Score one for our PHO, Dr. Bonnie Henry. 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

19 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Well, that's somewhat encouraging.  Most people here in BC (myself included) are or will be Pfizer x 2 + Moderna booster.  Score one for our PHO, Dr. Bonnie Henry. 

I don't know why you find it encouraging. Anyone boosterered before mid sept is probably going to need another very soon.

I'm waiting a few weeks to see what more solid booster data from the UK and USA turns up and what AZ come up with.

[Rain Man 1,992]

6 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

I don't know why you find it encouraging. Anyone boosterered before mid sept is probably going to need another very soon.

I'm waiting a few weeks to see what more solid booster data from the UK and USA turns up and what AZ come up with.

Just got my Moderna booster on Friday.  I guess that gives me 10-12 weeks to travel if I need to.

[fastyacht 2,603]

The publiic is confused. Never were tjese vaccines goimg to keep antibody levels up for long. Never were rgey going to outright prevent infection long twrm. What they do is dramatically rwduce severiry of infection and spread.

[Leeroy Jenkins 479]

22 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Day 3 after half dose Moderna booster.  Arm is still sore, no other issues.  Definitely not interested in another booster in three months.  Let's hope omicron turns out to be a bad flu.

Half dose?  I haven't heard of this.

 

7 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Well, that's somewhat encouraging.  Most people here in BC (myself included) are or will be Pfizer x 2 + Moderna booster.  Score one for our PHO, Dr. Bonnie Henry. 

Is there data on different combinations?  How about 3X Phizer?  I know the risk of clotting from Moderna are very small, but someone close to me has had four unprovoked DVTs and will not be taking any chances. 

[Rain Man 1,992]

1 minute ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Half dose?  I haven't heard of this.

 

Is there data on different combinations?  How about 3X Phizer?  I know the risk of clotting from Moderna are very small, but someone close to me has had four unprovoked DVTs and will not be taking any chances. 

They are giving 1/2 doses of Moderna here as boosters.

The UK study posted by @ShortForBob discussed the efficacy of a few combinations, 3 x Pfizer specifically.

[Leeroy Jenkins 479]

3 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

They are giving 1/2 doses of Moderna here as boosters.

The UK study posted by @ShortForBob discussed the efficacy of a few combinations, 3 x Pfizer specifically.

Leave it to the teacher to catch me out for not reading the homework 

Thanks.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

The AZ fanfolk have some splainin' to do.  

 

[EYESAILOR 1,653]

22 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

The AZ fanfolk have some splainin' to do.  

 

Not really.  We always knew that some of the vaccines would be more effective than the others.  Anybody who says they knew in advance of the phase 3 testing that they knew which would be the most effective vaccines is full of BS.  After phase 3 test results, it was clear that the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna were ahead of the pack, but I still don't think we know the endgame yet. I think we are 1500 meters into a 10,000 meter race. One or two of the predicted front runners have pulled up winded. The early pace setters are still ahead but they are flagging, and somebody that we have not been watching from the pack may emerge.  

[Grog 790]

33 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Not really.  We always knew that some of the vaccines would be more effective than the others.  Anybody who says they knew in advance of the phase 3 testing that they knew which would be the most effective vaccines is full of BS.  After phase 3 test results, it was clear that the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna were ahead of the pack, but I still don't think we know the endgame yet. I think we are 1500 meters into a 10,000 meter race. One or two of the predicted front runners have pulled up winded. The early pace setters are still ahead but they are flagging, and somebody that we have not been watching from the pack may emerge.  

And maybe the hare the pack is trailing runs out of steam?

The front runner so far is clearly the virus, it always leads by a few months (or, like, 2000 meters?). But it seems to be fading while at least vaccinated runners seem to maintain a decent if not competitive average.

In the long run I think the vaccines will have saved a couple of hundred million lives, either by not dying in the first place or by not suffering from life altering effects like strokes or severe long covid. They were definitely worth the proverbial shot and I can only pity those who had the chance but turned it down.

 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

54 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Not really.  We always knew that some of the vaccines would be more effective than the others.  Anybody who says they knew in advance of the phase 3 testing that they knew which would be the most effective vaccines is full of BS.  After phase 3 test results, it was clear that the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna were ahead of the pack, but I still don't think we know the endgame yet. I think we are 1500 meters into a 10,000 meter race. One or two of the predicted front runners have pulled up winded. The early pace setters are still ahead but they are flagging, and somebody that we have not been watching from the pack may emerge.  

Not what I meant. I was ragging on AZ and their disingenuous PR. My fave was AZ "as effective against Omicron as against Delta." Strangely, no % given. Yeah, right. 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Not what I meant. I was ragging on AZ and their disingenuous PR. My fave was AZ "as effective against Omicron as against Delta." Strangely, no % given. Yeah, right. 

I think we call all say that all players have been putting their best side to the crease. 

They are all saying they have a tweeked vaccine in the vats.

I still dont see that AZ is any less effective over the whole 6 months we've been trialing these vaccines.

And I'm pretty sure that the developing world would disagree with you.

1 AZ or J&J or Sinovac  better than No Pfizer/Moder 

Better go get your 4th shot, you're due. It might even protect you long enough to get that trip before you need a 5th.

Meanwhile, after much grief and death , those that were denied vaccines might just win the long race

[Recidivist 949]

Wife and I got  our booster shots yesterday (Pfizer, no option).  No side effects - hell, I was hardly even aware of the jab.  

[NeedAClew 1,786]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:29 PM, ShortForBob said:

I think we call all say that all players have been putting their best side to the crease. 

They are all saying they have a tweeked vaccine in the vats.

I still dont see that AZ is any less effective over the whole 6 months we've been trialing these vaccines.

And I'm pretty sure that the developing world would disagree with you.

1 AZ or J&J or Sinovac  better than No Pfizer/Moder 

Better go get your 4th shot, you're due. It might even protect you long enough to get that trip before you need a 5th.

Meanwhile, after much grief and death , those that were denied vaccines might just win the long race

Glad to know that your original foregoing of a booster until all people get vaccinated has morphed into foregoing your trip to Greece that would require a boost. Does AusPost have a special rate to mail your dose to Papua? 

Plus your notion of sending the funds you would have spent on your vacation to buy vaccines for Greece is splendid. 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Besides for the trip I want, I will be getting a typhoid shot, topping up my TDAP, and getting a bottle of Malarone. Another booster? Join the party. 

[Keith 1,529]

booster booked for sat....

[ShortForBob 2,962]

24 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Glad to know that your original foregoing of a booster until all people get vaccinated has morphed into foregoing your trip to Greece that would require a boost. Does AusPost have a special rate to mail your dose to Papua? 

Plus your notion of sending the funds you would have spent on your vacation to buy vaccines for Greece is splendid. 

It's a bit late now. The Virus has mutated.

My objection was and still is people getting 3rd shots when half the world has had non. 

Omicron has skewed that.

But 3 months ago, triple shots were not necessary.

And I am regularly donating to WHO.

You?

https://covid19responsefund.org/en/

[Raz'r 5,219]

13 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

It's a bit late now. The Virus has mutated.

My objection was and still is people getting 3rd shots when half the world has had non. 

Omicron has skewed that.

But 3 months ago, triple shots were not necessary.

And I am regularly donating to WHO.

You?

https://covid19responsefund.org/en/

Whether or not some fat rich guy gets a 3rd shot has no bearing on shot availability in poor areas. Just like the fact that the rich guy is fat, doesn't cause hunger in poor areas. 

[hobot 4,444]

3rd Booster shot upcoming this afternoon, looking forward to getting this done.

 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Whether or not some fat rich guy gets a 3rd shot has no bearing on shot availability in poor areas. Just like the fact that the rich guy is fat, doesn't cause hunger in poor areas. 

Tell that to the irish in the 1840's

When there is limited supply and the rich guy uses his wealth to buy the bulk of that supply, that then causes a shortage for the poorer areas.

Logistics too those poorer areas is also an issue but if there is no supply you cant shift it.

As I said, that was the situation a while ago, not so much now but the damage has been done. More variants. 

 

[TheDragon 905]

Well, I'm not so sure that more variants is a problem. Indeed, it looks like Omicron is a good thing in the long run, it appears to be the next stage of evolution into a bad cold virus like at least three other coronaviruses we all grew up catching. The places that are really suffering from Omicron like the US, are places with relatively low levels of vaccination. AND we don't really know how Omicron evolved. It might have been a long-lasting infection in an immune-compromised, possibly HIV-infected, person in Southern Africa, or might even be a reverse zoonotic that spent some time in an animal and got back into humans. Who knows? I very much doubt that it resulted from a lack of vaccines in Southern Africa, and at least as of a few months ago several SA countries like Botswana where early Omicron cases were detected, were turning away batches of vaccine because so few were interested, having swallowed too much anti-vaccine bullshit on social media, which is as much a problem here as it is in the USA.