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J/111 - Ditching the Facnor furler


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For you J/111 owners who removed the Facnor furler, did you drill a second hole in the attachment plate where the headstay connects at the bow? A friend of mine who used to own a 111 and made this change sent me the attached drawing, but the hole where the furler connects is not forward like in this drawing, its centered. He had a newer boat, I'm not sure if I have room to drill that hole. 

Also in another thread someone mentioned that the mast has to come out to swap the headstay. Is that true? In other boats, I have used a halyard to hold the mast up, gone up the mast and made the switch that way. 

Thanks...

J111_headsail_tack.jpg

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You will ultimately want to contact J-boats and get the conversion kit.  This includes a new forestay, deck bracket, and harken carbo-foil.  Nearly all of the boats I am familiar with have gone this route.  I want to say the cost was about $1,500 plus your yard labor to install.  I can take some pictures of the bracket when I am at the boat today.  Its a much better setup than anything jury-rigged like in your picture above.

Hroth

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2 hours ago, hrothgar said:

You will ultimately want to contact J-boats and get the conversion kit. 

Just for future reference, I called CCFC and they referred me to J Boats. J Boats told me this is not in stock, and they have not had any in a while. However, they told me that it's Garhauer who made the bracket for them and they are going to call over to see if they will do a one off. Maybe I'll get lucky, fingers crossed.

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Here is what that bracket looks like.  Then the forestay will have an open turnbuckle.  Then you just get a carbo-foil from Harken with a chafe guard.  I did the conversion over the winter so the rig was down.  And, I did end up getting new euro-jibs with tylaska shackles at the tack to attach.  Its not overall cheap but the set up is just much nicer than with the furler.  Especially for racing.

Hroth

 

image001.png

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That looks pretty cool, thanks. I suppose replacing the bracket should be easy enough, probably unbolt the old one and bolt on the new one. Hopefully no one bedded it with 5200. Did you have any trouble installing that bracket?  

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1 hour ago, George Dewey said:

That looks pretty cool, thanks. I suppose replacing the bracket should be easy enough, probably unbolt the old one and bolt on the new one. Hopefully no one bedded it with 5200. Did you have any trouble installing that bracket?  

Well, I had my yard do it.  So I personally had no trouble :)

Attached is the J-boats package that was offered after the rule change in 2018.  It has all the dimensions and such as it sounds like you'll have to do this from scratch yourself if you go this route.

Hroth

J111 Forestay Conversion Package - Updated.pdf

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Actually I see it is not. From the class rules:

 

Quote

C.9.4 STANDING RIGGING (a) The following forestay and associated rigging configurations are permitted for setting the jib: (1) A plastic luff extrusion system on the forestay as supplied by a licensed builder; or (2) A roller furling forestay system with aluminum luff extrusion as supplied by a licensed builder. (a) Boats equipped with roller furling are not required to be able to roll their jibs. (b) Rigging screws shall not be adjusted while racing. (Backstay adjustment is permitted.)

The "as supplied by a licensed builder" language confuses me a bit. In this context, does "as" me "like that" or does it mean I actually have to buy it from J Boats?

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Thank for the pic @Blur and, I see you have that fancy dancy Cyclops Smarttune thingy. Replacing my headstay is a good opportunity to add that. As a practical matter, do you actually the data from it, while sailing or after in log analysis?  

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On 8/11/2021 at 12:39 PM, George Dewey said:

Just for future reference, I called CCFC and they referred me to J Boats. J Boats told me this is not in stock, and they have not had any in a while. However, they told me that it's Garhauer who made the bracket for them and they are going to call over to see if they will do a one off. Maybe I'll get lucky, fingers crossed.

Okay J Boats ordered five of these from Garhauer, and they will be available earl September. So if anyone wants one it's going to be available. 

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18 hours ago, George Dewey said:

Thank for the pic @Blur and, I see you have that fancy dancy Cyclops Smarttune thingy. Replacing my headstay is a good opportunity to add that. As a practical matter, do you actually the data from it, while sailing or after in log analysis?  

forestay-10.jpg

We're displaying real time data on the mast, so that's a big part of communication between jib-trim, main and me as helmsman. Much easier to know where we are without turning our heads to look at the backstay and easier to communicate around distinct values. 

We then analyze race-logs to get baseline values, that we know are fast. Perfect at the leeward mark when the main trimmer can be in acceleration mode for the correct TWS:

Forestay-Tension---best-guess-2019.thumb.jpg.4ae6743592d7b64b23c9aeb96c7ead5b.jpg

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On 8/14/2021 at 11:22 AM, steele said:

Just an FYI but I have found Garhauer good to deal with directly in case there are issues with J.

 

On 8/14/2021 at 12:58 PM, Crash said:

Ditto

Good to know thanks!

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On 8/14/2021 at 5:41 AM, Blur said:

forestay-10.jpg

We're displaying real time data on the mast, so that's a big part of communication between jib-trim, main and me as helmsman. Much easier to know where we are without turning our heads to look at the backstay and easier to communicate around distinct values. 

We then analyze race-logs to get baseline values, that we know are fast. Perfect at the leeward mark when the main trimmer can be in acceleration mode for the correct TWS:

Forestay-Tension---best-guess-2019.thumb.jpg.4ae6743592d7b64b23c9aeb96c7ead5b.jpg

Pretty cool analysis, thanks for explaining!

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We found the load cell on the (125) headstay super useful for getting consistent setting upwind. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/11/2021 at 9:42 AM, hrothgar said:

You will ultimately want to contact J-boats and get the conversion kit. 

As I mentioned I got the deck bracket from J Boats, it looks cool and all, but... Today a friend and I tried to install it. The existing plate has 4 big 3/4 inch bolts. We removed the four nuts from under the deck easily enough but the bolts would not budge. I contacted CCF and they advised that it's probably bedded with either 4200 or 5200, as it was meant to stay for good. 

For those of you who have done this conversion, how did you get the existing bracket off? I know there is a chemical called Debond but I don't know how I would get it between the deck and the plate. 

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14 hours ago, George Dewey said:

but the bolts would not budge

Maybe try cracking loose the bolts from the sealant with slow and steady hits from an impact driver.   I am amazed on how many stuck items have given in to a Milwaukee M18 impact driver.

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1 hour ago, yoyo said:

Maybe try cracking loose the bolts from the sealant with slow and steady hits from an impact driver.   I am amazed on how many stuck items have given in to a Milwaukee M18 impact driver.

Thanks! I'll check that out. I posted a more generic (not 111 specific) question over in Fixit and the consensus seems to be whacking it, either with an impact driver from the top or a hammer from the bottom. But beating the crap out of my deck with a hammer just seems wrong! 

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They do make impact drivers that you whack with a hammer causing slow rotational force and they don't work anywhere near as well as a battery operated impact driver that slowly and repeatedly hits the bolt with rotational force.  

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I was referring to the plate/deck bond, didn't realize you were talking about the bolts.  If an impact driver can't get them out, you're fucked.  At that point you will need to grind the heads off and try to punch them through.  Did you try hitting them from underneath a little?

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If you can double nut the bolts from underneath, leaving a gap between the nuts & the hull, you can easily break the bolts free with a lot of torque. No hammers & no damage to the bolts

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13 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

I was referring to the plate/deck bond, didn't realize you were talking about the bolts.  If an impact driver can't get them out, you're fucked.  At that point you will need to grind the heads off and try to punch them through.  Did you try hitting them from underneath a little?

Not yet, I want to try to remove them by turning first. I ordered a 3/4 inch bit with a 1/2 in drive and a breaker bar.

12 hours ago, longy said:

If you can double nut the bolts from underneath, leaving a gap between the nuts & the hull, you can easily break the bolts free with a lot of torque. No hammers & no damage to the bolts

This is a great idea, I'll try this next thanks!

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