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What do you yell at the helmsman when reversing?


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You are reversing out of a marina berth. Once your bow clears the boat next to you, you need to swing the stern hard to right as you are facing/looking back.  (If you were looking normally ahead the bow swinging to strbrd) What would be the instruction to give to the helmsman. Put the wheel hard to port or strbrd. or anything else?  Is it the direction you are going takes precedence regardless of where the bow and stern is, or  the rudder angle you want if you were going forward? 

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36 minutes ago, Tax Man said:

"Bow is clear", what they do with that information is their own responsibility.

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

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3 minutes ago, Omer said:

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

This isn’t rocket science. Port is still port, starboard is still starboard. Do you unbolt your running lights and flip flop them when you back up?

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15 minutes ago, Omer said:

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

Someone on the bow of a ship does NOT give orders to the Bridge

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Left hand down a bit!!!!

 

 

 

 

For those not remembering 1950s 60s UK radio comedies, that comes from "The Navy Lark"

Ps, all the helmsman needs to know is "bow clear", if can't manouver the boat after that, he shouldn't be at the helm.

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1 hour ago, Omer said:

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

On a large ship, the helmsman isn't able to see the stern anyway.  And you'd have tugs for turning maneuvers in tight quarters. And the third mate aft to tell you what's up.  A tidbit worth knowing--A US-flag ship, in US waters typically uses left and right as rudder commands.  For the non-US flag ships in US waters (and elsewhere) it's Port and Starboard.  The local pilots will do likewise in giving the rudder commands.  "Midships" is the same world-round.

I'd agree that trying to give any order "adapted" to looking aft, is asking for confusion and uh-oh.  Hard right means turn top of the wheel to the right,with the

helmsman "facing forward" regardless of which way he/she is actually facing (I know, duh).   Keep it simple.

 

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1 hour ago, Omer said:

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

On a Navy ship the conn (and ONLY THE CONN and NOBODY ELSE) gives orders to the helmsman.  (If the captain were to give an order to the helm, the next words out of the conning officer's mouth are "Captain has the conn."  Eventually the captain gives the conn to whoever he wants, whenever he wants.  But otherwise the helmsman is trained to listen to one person only.)  And in tight maneuvering the conn gives orders what to do with the wheel and that's all.  "Left ten degrees rudder," etc.  And the helmsman turns the wheel left until the rudder is ten degrees over.

If you decide to shout "left ten degrees rudder" at the skipper of your sailboat as you back out of a well, let us know how that goes.

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Since we are leaving a pier at our leisure, presumably not being chased by people with guns, I would talk through the planned maneuver beforehand with the steering person. When the bow clears I would ask for the the stern to be swung to starboard and let the steering person use the tiller or wheel to execute the maneuver, assuming we aren't using a line to pin the starboard stern while the port stern rotates. 

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12 hours ago, Omer said:

You are reversing out of a marina berth. Once your bow clears the boat next to you, you need to swing the stern hard to right as you are facing/looking back.  (If you were looking normally ahead the bow swinging to strbrd) What would be the instruction to give to the helmsman. Put the wheel hard to port or strbrd. or anything else?  Is it the direction you are going takes precedence regardless of where the bow and stern is, or  the rudder angle you want if you were going forward? 

Nothing.The person driving the boat is in control. He/She can deal with it. No yelling allowed. There is no shit, unless you don’t know what is going on. 

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Had a match racing client that we had to have stand on the other side of the wheel when we’d be doing back downs during dial ups..... Same guy when we were sailing sprit boats- up and down was fine normally downwind but had to go to bow left/ bow right for wing on wing action. 

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On 8/12/2021 at 12:27 PM, Omer said:

There must be a technically correct answer to that. What if you are the captain of a large ship (or worse a navy vessel) reversing into a tight channel or what. What orders would you give to the helmsman?  ''I want to park my ass there first and then get the hell out of here... do what ever is necessary'' might not be good enough.

They guy with the con on a ship gives engine and rudder angle orders to the helmsman. Ie, dead slow ahead 20 degrees right rudder.  In the case of the boat, the guy on the helm usually "has the con."  Lookouts on a ship or large yacht provide distance and closing rate at the bow and stern usually. Ie, something like, "port stern 10 feet off closing slowly".  On a boat with the guy at the helm having the con usually at the stern, it can help to have a guy at the bow calling such info.  But the guy at the bow does not give helm or engine orders.  That's the guy who has the con.  The con also calls line orders such as port bow line off or on or some such.

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3 minutes ago, bgytr said:

In the case of the boat, the guy on the helm usually "has the con." 

This is really the essence and the default, and what Naptime says:

19 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Since we are leaving a pier at our leisure, presumably not being chased by people with guns, I would talk through the planned maneuver beforehand with the steering person.

The helmsman may have the conn, but is always subject to the skipper's orders, even if the skipper is on the bow making sure the bow is really clear.

Oh, the loneliness of command! :D

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On 8/12/2021 at 11:31 AM, Monkey said:

This isn’t rocket science. Port is still port, starboard is still starboard. Do you unbolt your running lights and flip flop them when you back up?

I think this is precisely why port and starboard exist... But yeah, dude on the bow should be telling the helm which way he needs to turn. 

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Since I'm the helmsman, what I usually shout while reversing is "God, it's a handsome devil driving this boat!"  

I encourage the crew to shout that too.  

When directing the people toward the front of the boat, I still use port and starboard. Avoids confusion.  

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On 8/12/2021 at 5:33 PM, Omer said:

You are reversing out of a marina berth. Once your bow clears the boat next to you, you need to swing the stern hard to right as you are facing/looking back.  (If you were looking normally ahead the bow swinging to strbrd) What would be the instruction to give to the helmsman. Put the wheel hard to port or strbrd. or anything else?  Is it the direction you are going takes precedence regardless of where the bow and stern is, or  the rudder angle you want if you were going forward? 

The whole point of the words starboard and portside is that they are attached to a side of the boat.

If you have to yell at the helm, something is wrong!

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Get a Proa?

All instructions would relate to the operational bow, or could be to windward/leeward, not port/starboard.

On a Proa, there is a permanent port end/tack and a starboard end/tack, and a permanent windward side and a lee side. And the nav lights are duplicated. Three way rocker switch. Port end/tack on, all off, and starboard end/tack on.

Helmsman is also in the middle of the boat, can see both ends more clearly and has equal/better manoeuvrability in either direction with a rudder under each bow. You can steer either end separately, or both together to reduce turning circle or slide off sideways to windward/leeward as required.

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Old story.  Running a big race boat in the 80s in Hawaii in the Ala Wai harbor, always bow-to.  Some of my unmentionable Clipper Cup crew bought a truck reverse alarm, and wired it up with a microswitch to the Morse reverse lever.  Hugely embarrassing, and loads of laughter from near and far.

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4 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Old story.  Running a big race boat in the 80s in Hawaii in the Ala Wai harbor, always bow-to.  Some of my unmentionable Clipper Cup crew bought a truck reverse alarm, and wired it up with a microswitch to the Morse reverse lever.  Hugely embarrassing, and loads of laughter from near and far.

mine compliant .

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