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J/80 Downwind Angles....


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Dynamic question I know. 

We have been racing the 80 for a couple months now after racing symmetrical boats for decades.  

Upwind, we can go fast.  Downwind there is some frustration.

I am starting to think that there is a big range of wind velocity that you sail this boat like a soaker.

For example, in 12 to 15 with the apparent at 90 degrees, it feels like lots of pressure and fast.  We drive down in gusts or when the speedo hits 7 knots.  But the prime competition, an Olson 30 and a B25,  just square up and head dead downwind.  I think they are doing steady 6 to 6.5's, and it is impossible to make up the distance.  

So my gut says we can go equally fast or faster than the competition at maybe an apparent of 150 to 165. We can ease the tack line up and try to roll a little to weather trying for better projection.  It kinda feels like betraying the "idea" of the boat to do this though...

Any feedback on this??

Any feedback on wind velocity where the boat actually does pop up and you can make the distance back??

 

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What do the polars say for those angles/speed.   In non-planing conditions it will be hard to keep up with a boat that can square back their pole.   I assume  you are trying to run deep with a proper A2?   Easing the tack is correct to rotate the spinnaker to weather and get pretty deep but it certainly won't "feel fast".   You'll be faster in very light winds when they also have their pole on the nose or when it's upper teens and higher where you can plane.

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The 80 is too heavy to do the sportboat speed thing - you have to sail VMG style.  

It looks like a sport boat, but it is really an asymmetrical keelboat - think mini J/105, not big Melges 24.

The "idea" is not to be a sport boat it is easy to be a one design with high stability that is forgiving and delivers "sporty" performance.

The boat is great at the VMG game and once you get the technique down (up 5, down five,etc.) you will be able to hang with them in mid range conditions.

You need to sail lower and slower and focus on the net gain.

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Sail lower and try letting tack up a bit if there is enough breeze.  Slight heel to weather also helps in these conditions.  It may not “feel fast” but keep on eye on the speedo and you can sail surprising low angles at good pace.  You can also try wing on wing which can be very useful at the bottom of a run for positioning relative to inside overlaps, etc.    The poster above is spot on re: VMG mode.  

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Is the prize worth the slogging? Sail fast to have more fun. Presumably in handicapped mixed-fleet racing there in no way for a sport boat to correct out (sail to rating) ahead of the 4ktsb boats in a DDW slogfest. So not worth the pain. Have fun while losing…heat it up…

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Suggestion:

Ease the tack line 1/2 as much as people tell you AND    
get as much weight to windward and forward-ish as possible.

One example is the photo of the J122 winning the ORC Worlds in Europe.

Sail safe!

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On 8/16/2021 at 9:48 AM, esoxproblem said:

Dynamic question I know. 

We have been racing the 80 for a couple months now after racing symmetrical boats for decades.  

Upwind, we can go fast.  Downwind there is some frustration.

I am starting to think that there is a big range of wind velocity that you sail this boat like a soaker.

For example, in 12 to 15 with the apparent at 90 degrees, it feels like lots of pressure and fast.  We drive down in gusts or when the speedo hits 7 knots.  But the prime competition, an Olson 30 and a B25,  just square up and head dead downwind.  I think they are doing steady 6 to 6.5's, and it is impossible to make up the distance.  

So my gut says we can go equally fast or faster than the competition at maybe an apparent of 150 to 165. We can ease the tack line up and try to roll a little to weather trying for better projection.  It kinda feels like betraying the "idea" of the boat to do this though...

Any feedback on this??

Any feedback on wind velocity where the boat actually does pop up and you can make the distance back??

 

At the Black Seal Cup one year, the conditions were just below planing for my Elliott 770, so we were sailing deep but not too deep. we got rolled by a j80 with their kite going wing on wing dead down wind.

Don't let the asym on a J80 (or a J105) fool you - sail the boat like it's a symmetrical.

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In the conditions you're describing (12-15 kts), sail as deep as possible. That's prime soaking conditions. Above that, if you can get on a consistent plane, you chase a little and try to get that speed. The 80 is a soaking machine. We never touch the tackline, do a little bit of heel to weather, and then it's just about communication between the trimmer and driver

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