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Is a dry bilge possible?


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My previous boat had a bone dry bilge, but the J-Boat seems to get rainwater in the bilge after a pour. It’s not a lot, but as a result, there’s always 1/4” of water in the very shallow bilge. I’ve been vacuuming the water out with a little shop vac, but that doesn’t seem like a sustainable practice. 
 

Is it at all reasonable to think I can find the source and stop it, or do I just need to resign myself to the fact that the bilge will have some water in it?

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J/95 right?  Keel stepped mast right?  Water will always come down into bilge thru the mast.  Dehumidifier will be a big help, as will your small shop vac.  It is a sustainable practice, I've done it for years and years on a number of boats with shallow bilges and keel stepped masts...J-24, Santana 30/30, J/109, S-2 9.1 all had to have some rainwater vacuumed or sponged from the bilge.  As Ed said, "suck it up, buttercup!"  

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1 minute ago, 10thTonner said:

I have a deck stepped mast and my bilge is drier than Melania Trump’s vagina. 

I hate you for that image!

I hope your bilge does not look like ... I cannot repeat those words...

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9 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

I have a deck stepped mast and my bilge is drier than Melania Trump’s vagina. 

Is this first hand information?

And I am not talking about your bilge.

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56 minutes ago, Crash said:

J/95 right?  Keel stepped mast right?  Water will always come down into bilge thru the mast.  Dehumidifier will be a big help, as will your small shop vac.  It is a sustainable practice, I've done it for years and years on a number of boats with shallow bilges and keel stepped masts...J-24, Santana 30/30, J/109, S-2 9.1 all had to have some rainwater vacuumed or sponged from the bilge.  As Ed said, "suck it up, buttercup!"  

Repeat to yourself every time it rains “keel stepped masts are stronger” “keel stepped masts are stronger”.  A Turkey Baster will work wonders,  follow with a sponge, keep a small soft feed bucket on the floor to put the rain water in, and keep baster and sponge in it at the ready.  It helps to keep the floorboards not screwed down open when you’re not using the boat, do you can get rid of the water in a minute or two.  
 

Do not steal your wife’s baster. Get your own.  (This is not trivial advice…)

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7 minutes ago, DougH said:

Just one of the many things I love about my S2 7.9: bone dry bilge (deck stepped mast).

A pox on the scumbag that referred to someone's female body part.

I'm sure he is sorry your feelings were hurt.....Sounds like your cunt is dry as well.

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PA?  I don't see the P in this A.  Now you did it, why did you have to go there??

Next time you sit down to to piss, splash a little of that bowl water between your legs....it will turn that frown upside-down.

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5 minutes ago, SEC16518 said:

PA?  I don't see the P in this A.  Now you did it, why did you have to go there??

Next time you sit down to to piss, splash a little of that bowl water between your legs....it will turn that frown upside-down.

So no problem if he had talked about Michelle Obama's dry vagina instead...  got it.

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4 hours ago, Quickstep192 said:

My previous boat had a bone dry bilge, but the J-Boat seems to get rainwater in the bilge after a pour. It’s not a lot, but as a result, there’s always 1/4” of water in the very shallow bilge. I’ve been vacuuming the water out with a little shop vac, but that doesn’t seem like a sustainable practice. 
 

Is it at all reasonable to think I can find the source and stop it, or do I just need to resign myself to the fact that the bilge will have some water in it?

One of these is handy if you have more than an inch.  Battery powered (I’m going to regret posting that), made for sucking gas out of a tank etc…. 

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56 minutes ago, Amati said:

One of these is handy if you have more than an inch.  Battery powered (I’m going to regret posting that), made for sucking gas out of a tank etc…. 

Well that didn’t take- try this

84DD33C8-3EA9-4B66-BCD1-3ABE1593AB29.jpeg

19485F29-534D-4F94-9849-ECD78D5F388C.jpeg

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and if you are really really desperate to find the source try this age old little trick coming also from building industry : you sprinkle a tiny layer of flour over the bilges, when water threads its' way down it will leave a trace on the flour showing you where it came from

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1 hour ago, Mid said:

Spartite Mast Wedge Replacement System

 

Lovely stuff.  Use it myself, but after the first time you pull the rig, or bend your mast, it will weep.  And the halyard slots and boxes will drip, and you will have water in your bilge.  Good place for it.  Think of the sailing tradition you are carrying on!

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6 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Lovely stuff.  Use it myself, but after the first time you pull the rig, or bend your mast, it will weep.  And the halyard slots and boxes will drip, and you will have water in your bilge.  Good place for it.  Think of the sailing tradition you are carrying on!

Yes, those are dripless in the same way Stainless Steel is really Stain Less Steel.

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8 hours ago, Editor said:

Suck it up, buttercup!

Quickey, I thick you rite backe wheare you started frome...........  an buttercups notte a bad nicname so..........                              :)

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6 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

It's a bilge, get over it......

 

I actually use the mini vac on mine too, but my boat doesn't have an automatic pump.

We have an automatic pump.  I don’t think it’s ever come on, and we have a 4” bilge.  When we test it, it’s fine.  The peanut sponge is way too big to get under the floor that’s screwed down.  I use Scotch brand kitchen small sponges I filched from the pantry.  That way I can get them in the bilge with my hand and move them around.  If you start with the blaster, usually the small sponges will finish the job.  Not sure what to use on the limber holes (is that the right word for athwartships drain holes in the ribs?). God only knows what’s in them.  Besides spiders and black gunk…. :wacko: Are there brushes or something for small testubes?

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10 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Quickey, I thick you rite backe wheare you started frome...........  an buttercups notte a bad nicname so..........                              :)

There’s a song in there!

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Hmmm...

Deck step with lower Dr to the gooseneck is with.

But does that silly ORC rule still prohibit  those lowers.

No worries in IRC

 

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22 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Yes, those are dripless in the same way Stainless Steel is really Stain Less Steel.

We tried a balloon once :lol:…..  I really don’t want to see the inside of any keel stepped mast that isn’t factory fresh…..

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16 minutes ago, Amati said:

We have an automatic pump.  I don’t think it’s ever come on, and we have a 4” bilge.  When we test it, it’s fine.  The peanut sponge is way too big to get under the floor that’s screwed down.  I use Scotch brand kitchen small sponges I filched from the pantry.  That way I can get them in the bilge with my hand and move them around.  If you start with the blaster, usually the small sponges will finish the job.  Not sure what to use on the limber holes (is that the right word for athwartships drain holes in the ribs?). God only knows what’s in them.  Besides spiders and black gunk…. :wacko: Are there brushes or something for small testubes?

The limber holes run fore and aft.  They are drilled through the floors which are the athwartship primary structure.  The floors hold up the cabin sole (which is what you are reaching under with your sponge and stand on).  The stringers are the primary fore and aft structure.  The ribs/frames run athwartship/vertically between the stringers and the deck.  The stringers should have weeps to let condensation and deck leaks get to the bilge.  (Ribs if you are dealing with a wooden boat.)  

Next week, we will study up on the keelson, deadwood and the garboard strake!

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6 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

The limber holes run fore and aft.  They are drilled through the floors which are the athwartship primary structure.  The floors hold up the cain sole, which is what you are reaching under.  The ribs / frames run athwartship between the stringers which are the fore and aft structure, which should have weeps to let condensation and deck leaks get to the bilge.  Ribs, if you are dealing with a wooden boat, run athwartship/vertically between the frames.

Sort of.  

Thanks.  It’s amazing how that salty vocabulary exits the brain, but limber holes are what I meant.  Yay!  The age of miracles has not ended.  I believe typing the word ‘athwartships’ reduces me to a blubbering something or other…. 

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Hull, keelboxes, floors, cabin floor, with the stringers doubling as settee sides left and right.  What's missing is the fore and aft unidirectional laminate beam, buried in the sole layup that will tie the tops of the keel boxes to all the floors when it all gets put back together.  Sadly lacking in limber holes.

IMG_0483.JPG.8a26ffeb0a986f45faa2d1ba9f8abf95.JPG

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Yes it is.

Step 1: In a heavy rain, with the crew below, hand out flashlights and rolls of tape. Have the crew inspect the underside of the deck from bow to stern (yes, someone gets to climb in the lazarette, tear off a piece of tape 6" long and stick like 1.5" to the ceiling let the rest dangle down. A few days later after dry out, re-bed those leakers.

Step 2: Install a dripless stuffing box.

It takes time, a few extra tries in those heavy rain storms, but you'll get there.

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9 hours ago, Quickstep192 said:

My previous boat had a bone dry bilge, but the J-Boat seems to get rainwater in the bilge after a pour. It’s not a lot, but as a result, there’s always 1/4” of water in the very shallow bilge. I’ve been vacuuming the water out with a little shop vac, but that doesn’t seem like a sustainable practice. 
 

Is it at all reasonable to think I can find the source and stop it, or do I just need to resign myself to the fact that the bilge will have some water in it?

I finally solved mine after 27 years. Don't give up. And don't put ice in the refrigerator or shower in the head. 

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37 minutes ago, dyslexic dog said:

I finally solved mine after 27 years. Don't give up. And don't put ice in the refrigerator or shower in the head. 

Sailing in fresh water as you seem to do, how do you differentiate between a hull leak and a deck leak?  Taste is out, it would seem….

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10 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

I have a deck stepped mast and my bilge is drier than Melania Trump’s vagina. 

This cannot be unseen.

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Now that you mention it..

How do I know if it's fresh water or sea water?? 

I first noticed this when the boat was on the hard. BUT, that was before the mast was in and I had a bucket over the hole. Now that the mast is in, I notice more water than before. That said, I also notice some water under the engine which leads me to believe at least some of it is coming from the cockpit. 

I'm reasonably sure it's rain water because the water is crystal clear. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Quickstep192 said:

Now that you mention it..

How do I know if it's fresh water or sea water?? 

I first noticed this when the boat was on the hard. BUT, that was before the mast was in and I had a bucket over the hole. Now that the mast is in, I notice more water than before. That said, I also notice some water under the engine which leads me to believe at least some of it is coming from the cockpit. 

I'm reasonably sure it's rain water because the water is crystal clear. 

 

Taste it, like everybody else does.

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Does the channel for the sail bolt rope go right through the deck? Someone I sailed with greatly reduced the amount of water getting in that way by pushing a soft rope into the groove above deck, below the gooseneck, leading the tail off to the side deck.

Also of course a mast is often cold alumimium leading to condensation inside and out..

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Well, I found one place it's getting in and I don't know if there's a solution. 

At least some of it is coming in through the anchor locker. There's no real seal or gutter around the lid for the anchor locker. Any ideas on how to seal that up?

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24 minutes ago, Quickstep192 said:

Well, I found one place it's getting in and I don't know if there's a solution. 

At least some of it is coming in through the anchor locker. There's no real seal or gutter around the lid for the anchor locker. Any ideas on how to seal that up?

Leave some mud on the anchor. I found it works nicely for at least a few hundred litres of water :ph34r:.

We had one long brisk race where at dawn we found probably over a half ton of water in the lazarette and bow locker from my lack of attention. We'd just done a  horizon job on some other 40' ers though, so I was both pissed off and chuffed at the same time.    

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On 8/23/2021 at 6:24 PM, Amati said:

We tried a balloon once :lol:…..  I really don’t want to see the inside of any keel stepped mast that isn’t factory fresh…..

That’s why you buy boats with inline spreaders and running back stays like I am!  The rigs never get more than a few years old!  :D

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

That’s why you buy boats with inline spreaders and running back stays like I am!  The rigs never get more than a few years old!  :D

throw some checks and and an inner fore for good measure :)

 

tie that sucker in knots then .

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12 minutes ago, Mid said:

throw some checks and and an inner fore for good measure :)

 

tie that sucker in knots then .

Checks are in there, but no fixed back stay makes up for the lack of that silliness up front. It keeps the rig and rigging new. 

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2 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Checks are in there, but no fixed back stay makes up for the lack of that silliness up front. It keeps the rig and rigging new. 

I must be getting old , I omitted the tipstay :)

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6 minutes ago, Mid said:

I must be getting old , I omitted the tipstay :)

No worries, this time around it’s not another IOR pig, just a go fast toy that kills masts. 

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4 hours ago, Caecilian said:
  On 8/23/2021 at 11:22 AM, 10thTonner said:

I have a deck stepped mast and my bilge is drier than Melania Trump’s vagina. 

4 hours ago, Caecilian said:

Quite dusty then?

Not as dusty as your dick, if you can find it.

Do you like being sexually slammed by someone that doesn't even know you? Lay off Melania. Did she step on your foot? Oh, it's hatred by association. TDS

Also, take this shit to PA because it is clearly political and we are sick of seeing it here.

 

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6 hours ago, DougH said:

Not as dusty as your dick, if you can find it.

Do you like being sexually slammed by someone that doesn't even know you? Lay off Melania. Did she step on your foot? Oh, it's hatred by association. TDS

Also, take this shit to PA because it is clearly political and we are sick of seeing it here.

 

Calm down, you are the one making it political. Yes you, in fact its the full on Streisand effect. 

Its a joke, and it goes like this. Mr Trumps wife who makes every effort to show zero affection towards him is highly unlikely to be having sex with him. Now the joke is that a females private parts when aroused would be described as "wet" but when not aroused described as "dry".  Stay with me here,  the term "dusty" means dry and is often used in describing the state of the bilge hence the joke. Dusty private parts, dusty bilge.

I hope that clears things up for you. Most sailors would say as dry as a nuns cunt to describe a good bilge

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On 8/23/2021 at 6:51 PM, Left Shift said:

Lovely stuff.  Use it myself, but after the first time you pull the rig, or bend your mast, it will weep.  And the halyard slots and boxes will drip, and you will have water in your bilge.  Good place for it.  Think of the sailing tradition you are carrying on!

You have to chock the mast partners solidly, so that they don't put pressure on the sealant.

Alternatively, buy some 3M 4200 in the handy family-sized tub, and go to town.

FB- Doug

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52 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

Its a joke, and it goes like this. Mr Trumps wife who makes every effort to show zero affection towards him is highly unlikely to be having sex with him.

Why use Trump's wife? Why not use your wife or girlfriend or a nun as you say?  Sorry, this is clearly political and you know it. TDS. Let's get rid of it. 

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22 minutes ago, DougH said:

Why use Trump's wife? Why not use your wife or girlfriend or a nun as you say?  Sorry, this is clearly political and you know it. TDS. Let's get rid of it. 

I think you need to learn what the definition of politics is......Talkin' shit about a celebrity wife is certainly not politics.  

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Former President....but that was not my point.  I used the term to mean in the public eye, not a some private individual.  How about you learn how to have a conversation without bringing politics into it...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SEC16518 said:

How about you learn how to have a conversation without bringing politics into it

You know perfectly well how controversial Trump as president was. You can say that wasn't a politically driven comment until you're blue in the face but we know what it was.

How about we not use specific women for such an insulting analogy? Better yet, how about we not use that analogy at all...

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I've got a 1983 very battle weary J35 that leaks like a fucking sieve and you fuckers have put more effort into this thread than I've put into water removal from that boat since I've owned it LOL

 

very entertaining though... carry on

 

 

if I wanted a dry boat, I would have bought an airplane. 

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1 hour ago, DougH said:

You know perfectly well how controversial Trump as president was. You can say that wasn't a politically driven comment until you're blue in the face but we know what it was.

How about we not use specific women for such an insulting analogy? Better yet, how about we not use that analogy at all...

How about you toughen up and stop being so thin-skinned?  How about you take your political shit to the other forum?  How about we all love to use that analogy and it's so appropriate?  Better yet, how about Doug H is a cunt?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougH said:

You know perfectly well how controversial Trump as president was. You can say that wasn't a politically driven comment until you're blue in the face but we know what it was.

How about we not use specific women for such an insulting analogy? Better yet, how about we not use that analogy at all...

You must be new here. . . .

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1 hour ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

I've got a 1983 very battle weary J35 that leaks like a fucking sieve and you fuckers have put more effort into this thread than I've put into water removal from that boat since I've owned it LOL

 

very entertaining though... carry on

 

 

if I wanted a dry boat, I would have bought an airplane. 

Good! You can actually keep one of those inside!

FB- Doug

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28 minutes ago, MaxHeadroom said:

You must be new here. . . .

Just a few months. I also know that women of all ages read these posts.

But there are some who talk like jerks because they know they are anonymous behind their keyboards while in their underwear living in their mother's basement. I will call them out for what they post.

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You have to chock the mast partners solidly, so that they don't put pressure on the sealant.

Alternatively, buy some 3M 4200 in the handy family-sized tub, and go to town.

FB- Doug

I've done both.  Currently have carbon fiber chocks, custom formed to the mast.  With Spartite on top.  Still drips. 

Once had a "boat worker" once decide that he could recreate the Spartite experience with massive amounts of 4200.  Tried to sculpt the top to slope to drain.  An incredible mess.  It leaked.

All boats leak.  That's why sponges decided to be born.

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Just now, Left Shift said:

I've done both.  Currently have carbon fiber chocks, custom formed to the mast.  With Spartite on top.  Still drips. 

Once had a "boat worker" once decide that he could recreate the Spartite experience with massive amounts of 4200.  Tried to sculpt the top to slope to drain.  An incredible mess.  It leaked.

All boats leak.  That's why sponges decided to be born.

I have a Spartite collar. Re-used several times. A bit of snot filling the luff slot. That is mostly for mechanical wedging though. That is covered with a sleeve of wetsuit-like rubber with hose clamps. Then a sacrificial wrap of mast boot tape ($$$) which needs to be refreshed every couple years. Not a single drip ever. 
 

Plenty of rainwater down the inside and into the bilge though. But I’m not a snowflake. In the tropics rainwater also comes in thru the necessarily open ventilation, sail changes, squall drenched clothing, etc.  A quart of water in the bilge…so what?

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so to answer the original question... yes if you keep drying it out... otherwise... it's a fuckin boat, so ... nope. 

 

Dehumiliators are Yahweh's  gift to most J-boat owners ...

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One thing that really improved my mast leaks was that stretchy silicone based self amalgamating tape, its what all the pros use here. But to completely seal a mast is a challenge. Even the tiniest entry point can accumulate a lot of water if the wind is in the right direction and what goes in must come out. If you identify the spar as the source and want to deal with it then there are only a few options, the first is making sure points of entry are minimised and the other is blocking the water internally. I have done this using the balloon trick but I am not sure I would do it again. The reasoning is has to be done well so that water cant sit or creep between whatever goo you put in there.

1/4" is nothing, plenty of people live with a bucket or two after hard rain. As mentioned just get a sponge or at a pinch hire a few nuns and maybe Melania to just stand in there for an hour. 

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5 hours ago, Caecilian said:

One thing that really improved my mast leaks was that stretchy silicone based self amalgamating tape, its what all the pros use here. But to completely seal a mast is a challenge. Even the tiniest entry point can accumulate a lot of water if the wind is in the right direction and what goes in must come out. If you identify the spar as the source and want to deal with it then there are only a few options, the first is making sure points of entry are minimised and the other is blocking the water internally. I have done this using the balloon trick but I am not sure I would do it again. The reasoning is has to be done well so that water cant sit or creep between whatever goo you put in there.

1/4" is nothing, plenty of people live with a bucket or two after hard rain. As mentioned just get a sponge or at a pinch hire a few nuns and maybe Melania to just stand in there for an hour. 

Do unstayed masts leak?  Like a Laser mast?  Does it leak into the mast step? Does a Laser mast step leak? :lol: I used to turn my Laser over after sailing in the rain, and water would drain out of the mast step.  Wyliecats? Do you need an automatic pump if you had a bottom sealed tube for a mast step?  The step for our Hoyt Jib Spar is sealed, didn’t leak, but always had standing water in it. Would that work as a model for a keel stepped mast?  (It would be interesting to ground a mast for lightening with that?)

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3 hours ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

Did this one never get a proper greeting here?

probably not, hence the bad manners

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On 8/25/2021 at 11:22 PM, Bump-n-Grind said:
On 8/25/2021 at 7:44 PM, Danceswithoctopus said:

Did this one never get a proper greeting here?

probably not, hence the bad manners

Juvenile manners were on display, but by just one or two. Now ain't that a daisy?

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On 8/25/2021 at 10:47 AM, MaxHeadroom said:

You must be new here. . . .

The new guys always start with such vim and vigor.  lol.  :D

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On 8/25/2021 at 11:52 PM, Bump-n-Grind said:

1983 very battle weary J35

Jenny ? :ph34r:

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48 minutes ago, Mid said:

Jenny ? :ph34r:

Nope, Was Split Decision then Pagan. Pitman thinks is was aka Kalaidoscope at one point

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On 8/27/2021 at 10:28 PM, DougH said:

Juvenile manners were on display, but by just one or two. Now ain't that a daisy?

There's no manners around here, anyone on an anarchy board is a bit of a cunt, including you for being such a pompous knob

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