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here’s a letter from our County Public Health Administrator of San Juan Island Washington State, Dr Frank James. It’s going to be hard here, and we are well vaccinated.  This sounds so much like

IF the consumption in the US actually had anything to do about lack of consumption elsewhere, I'd agree with you. But like starving kids in Africa, whether Johnny finishes his veggies or not, that kid

About 2.5% of health care workers in BC are now on unpaid leave because they are not vaccinated.   They will be terminated if not vaccinated by a certain date.   Our provincial health officer: 

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I’m in Panama and spent the day in the old city with Mrs Dragon. Figured out the bus and metro system so we could do the whole day for less than $5 versus about $100 for taxis. Interesting that everyone wears masks everywhere,  including all outdoors, albeit societal distancing rules have relaxed. On the metro and bus in addition to masks, face shields are required, plus no talking! Here’s Mrs Dragon sporting a Guna-style mask and a face shield in front of one of many large posters encouraging silence on the metro, and it was deathly quiet.DBB890E6-30E2-47E6-82D2-9979DEE867AD.thumb.jpeg.b9f73afeb97a80b882cb1b210563aeb7.jpeg

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

He has been in the ICU since about April last year.

But since we havent seen him on the Covid forums recently I was thinking maybe he graduated to a higher level......I . C. U is only one above M. C. U. , the parallel universe of unreality known as Moronic Covid Universe.   MCU has been getting a bit crowded of late due to you-know-who taking so  long on her exams. 

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56 minutes ago, Joethecobbler said:

Why would catching covid change his mind? 

The " vaccine" doesn't prevent, doesn't stop transmission.

And there's questions as to the protein modifier actually furthers the virus to accelerate other strains .

Not to mention , upon recovery, natural immunity !

15 posts, 12 downvotes. Impressive. I'd say go an peddle your BS somewhere else, but you bullshitters are like horse flies. Swat and you fly away, but always come back. 

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58 minutes ago, Joethecobbler said:

Why would catching covid change his mind? 

The " vaccine" doesn't prevent, doesn't stop transmission.

And there's questions as to the protein modifier actually furthers the virus to accelerate other strains .

Not to mention , upon recovery, natural immunity !

The vax is just saline, so why won't you get it and join the crowd?

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Sorry mate, I can't hear you. I put you on ignore faster than any other in history. I've given everyone else due courtesy and time to explain their opinions, but you went straight to angry whack-job world, hence straight to ignore.

You are a troll.

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Quick update:

The percentage of the eligible population who have had their first jab has now reached 99.3%. The fully vaccinated has reached 91.1%.

I wasnt sure how parents would respond to the EUA allowing 12 -17 to get vaccinated. The response has been unambiguous, 99+% of all 12-17 year olds in our town have had their first jab  and 97.3% are already fully vaccinated. The number of cases in this cohort has tumbled. It went from being the cohort with the highest monthly infection rate (1.1%) in September to 0 cases for the last 3 weeks and 1 in the last 6 weeks..  What is interesting is that the infection rate for 0-11 has also declined sharply We have only had 5 in the last 3 weeks and 10 in the last 6 weeks and that is down from 24 in just September alone.

One possible explanation is that schoolkids from 12-18 are now fully vaccinated;  perhaps they are providing a level of herd immunity to their younger siblings and the lower grades, but Im not really sure of the causal link.

The number of break through cases was 32 in the month before school started (August), climbed to 52 in the first month of school, and has declined to 18 in the second month of school Oct 5-Nov 5.  This despite the number of vaccinated climbing between August and now, suggesting that the break through rate has declined more than the absolute number of cases.

On a casual observation, masks are still worn by most people, young and old at the grocery store.  There is distinctly more social activity, with lots of people walking at the beach and saying hi on the street. Young people and high schoolers hanging out at the delis more like they did pre-pandemic. The weather is turning colder so that will end prematurely.

 

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19 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Quick update:

The percentage of the eligible population who have had their first jab has now reached 99.3%. The fully vaccinated has reached 91.1%.

I wasnt sure how parents would respond to the EUA allowing 12 -17 to get vaccinated. The response has been unambiguous, 99+% of all 12-17 year olds in our town have had their first jab  and 97.3% are already fully vaccinated. The number of cases in this cohort has tumbled. It went from being the cohort with the highest monthly infection rate (1.1%) in September to 0 cases for the last 3 weeks and 1 in the last 6 weeks..  What is interesting is that the infection rate for 0-11 has also declined sharply We have only had 5 in the last 3 weeks and 10 in the last 6 weeks and that is down from 24 in just September alone.

One possible explanation is that schoolkids from 12-18 are now fully vaccinated;  perhaps they are providing a level of herd immunity to their younger siblings and the lower grades, but Im not really sure of the causal link.

The number of break through cases was 32 in the month before school started (August), climbed to 52 in the first month of school, and has declined to 18 in the second month of school Oct 5-Nov 5.  This despite the number of vaccinated climbing between August and now, suggesting that the break through rate has declined more than the absolute number of cases.

On a casual observation, masks are still worn by most people, young and old at the grocery store.  There is distinctly more social activity, with lots of people walking at the beach and saying hi on the street. Young people and high schoolers hanging out at the delis more like they did pre-pandemic. The weather is turning colder so that will end prematurely.

 

What happened 

were these old folks vaccinated 

 

AAB9EEF1-5C9F-4795-916B-7769AE0E8983.png

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41 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

What happened 

were these old folks vaccinated 

 

This is the New Canaan outbreak. 22 staff members tested positive. None of the elderly residents had received the booster shot. 67 residents contracted covid. 8 of the residents (over 10% of the population) died in a 3 week period as a result of the outbreak! 

The nursing home encourages but does not mandate vaccination for staff. Most of the staff have chosen to be vaccinated.

The nursing home manager made a vague comment saying "Our contact tracing indicates we had one individual — maybe it was staff — contracted COVID-19"      Frankly, I'm surprised their attorneys let him say even that. 

I will try and find out more. 

It is too early to draw conclusions from this tragedy but I make 2 comments:

1.  Anyone over the age of 65 should seriously consider getting their booster shot asap.

2. Anyone who still thinks that they are not at risk and this is just another seasonal flu is living in cloud cuckoo land. We are all going to get old!  Maybe its 5 years, maybe its 10 years, maybe its 30 years but if Covid 19 is still around, eventually you will be at high risk of Covid. Between now and then, you had better hope that those researchers (that some of you like to denigrate) come up with more effective vaccines and more effective anti-virals.

This is very sad.  Thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention Slug (and I do not include you as living in cloud cuckoo land).

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As to the town where we live, we have one assisted living facility. The staff are mandated to be vaccinated. All residents have received their booster shot. Staff are encouraged to get the booster shot but it is currently not mandated.

Touch wood. 

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We have gone from an oasis of low risk/low infection rate to as bad as the mainland, mainly because of ‘gatherings’ where COVID sick were attending, knowing they were sick.  About 1/3 of the new cases are breakthrough.  Masking and social distancing in some groups, like certain a preschool organization gathering, were thrown out the window in the ‘sheer joy’ of the event, according to island gossip. 30 people there, and that was last week.  People are arriving from all over to celebrate Thanksgiving.  The anger level against the masked is ramping up again, and I keep hearing Fauci talking about how great it will be to get together for the holidays, and people are using that as a springboard to throw off distancing and masking.  Fauci may be taking a nuanced approach, but it is not being received as that.  It’s all or nothing, throw caution to the wind.  If this gets hold here, this place will turn into a Petri dish.  At this point I don’t see many giving up extensive holiday plans. Having 85%+ vaccinated doesn’t mean a lot when people are going off island & coming back, and outsiders are coming on island, crammed mostly unmasked into ferries, planes and boats, and walking around unmasked and partying, unmasked, in groups.  Our island health department isn’t even trying to be nice about this anymore, issuing blunt warnings, but people are blowing it off. :ph34r:  Time to really hide.  But for what, 6 weeks?  

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b

5 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Hard to understand the old age home deaths 

I’ve been triple jabbed for one month 

those old folks should have had the jab troika a long time ago 

the management of that facility needs to answer to the authorities 

I am sure there will be an investigation. Relatives will demand one and there will be a political angle as well.  The organization that manages that home receives annual subsidies  from the State to take care of low income elderly people. Just prior to Covid they received a $2.2 million capital grant to build additional low income assisted living facilities.

Probably wrong to draw any early conclusions. The beginning of the outbreak coincided with a mini-surge in parts of CT (back to school?) and I am hearing them say the booster may not have become available to them. Hmmmm.....I would have thought a nursing facility should have been primed and ready to go.

 

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On 11/18/2021 at 8:36 PM, Ncik said:

Sorry mate, I can't hear you. I put you on ignore faster than any other in history. I've given everyone else due courtesy and time to explain their opinions, but you went straight to angry whack-job world, hence straight to ignore.

You are a troll.

There is a professional level to his writing that crackles with anger.  I saw it in the first post he made, and promptly axed him.

 Could be he (it?) has been assigned to our motley group?

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

There is a professional level to his writing that crackles with anger.  I saw it in the first post he made, and promptly axed him.

 Could be he (it?) has been assigned to our motley group?

One can't help but wonder if some of these trolls are paid to try to get us to generate clicks.  It would take a bit of subtlety to get SA folk to respond and not simply put them on ignore.  Joethegobbler didn't play that game right, and most had him on ignore within 5-10 posts.  

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15 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

One can't help but wonder if some of these trolls are paid to try to get us to generate clicks.  It would take a bit of subtlety to get SA folk to respond and not simply put them on ignore.  Joethegobbler didn't play that game right, and most had him on ignore within 5-10 posts.  

Well if that was the case it worked judging the number of posts that have ensued just discussing him.

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10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

b

I am sure there will be an investigation. Relatives will demand one and there will be a political angle as well.  The organization that manages that home receives annual subsidies  from the State to take care of low income elderly people. Just prior to Covid they received a $2.2 million capital grant to build additional low income assisted living facilities.

Probably wrong to draw any early conclusions. The beginning of the outbreak coincided with a mini-surge in parts of CT (back to school?) and I am hearing them say the booster may not have become available to them. Hmmmm.....I would have thought a nursing facility should have been primed and ready to go.

 

Malpractice  
It’s no wonder that health insurance costs so much 

“”Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year.” 

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While I have no detailed numbers on how my town is doing, we seem to be floating along with the pandemic becoming endemic. Steady as she goes, probably.

The country is doing worse than it could, or indeed should. The early lockdowns of 2020 kind of worked, the wide and early reopening of 2020 did not and the obvious result were the two spikes of infections last fall and winter, where we spiked at a nationwide incidence of 211 just before christmas.

This year vaccinations started, a bit later and slower as desired, but the pace picked up quickly and in the summer of 2021 we were looking at a realistic goal of 85+% of the population fully vaccinated by the mid of september. Then it all but tanked.

Today Germany has just over 70% fully vaccinated, my state with only 67% sits even a bit lower, which is disappointing. This leaves over 15 million people unvaccinated and vulnerable, and unsurprisingly it shows as we will hit an incidence of 400 for the nation, 463 for my state and 354 for my county. Mind you, some counties have raced past an incidence of 1.000, a few even past 1.500 - and a capping of the fast growth is not in sight:

incidence-germany.png.5ca8b7c077dc03fcdc8007804ba3c7cf.png

(Source: DIE ZEIT, data from RKI)

 

So, how are we doing? Not too well. People get sick and clog up the ICUs, a few counties have imposed lockdowns for the unvaccinated on top of nation wide ristrictions. The loonies get more vocal, the other anti-vaxxers keep being stubborn, and we all face another winter of restrictions and probably lock-downs. Having literally no working gouvernment doesn't seem to help - the old one is on it's way out and the new one isn't even formed yet, and neither wants to be the messenger of the obvious.

After all, it is down to individual behaviour and decisions. My family and friends are all fully vaccinated, as am I. Booster jabs are starting for us and we are getting them. Masks and some distancing are still best practice for us, especially when around other people. So far it has worked.

 

TLDR: Pretty fucking far from OK, but could be worse. We'll see. :)

 

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12 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Malpractice  
It’s no wonder that health insurance costs so much 

“”Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year.” 

I dont know who the "John Hopkins patient safety experts" are or how they define an "error" but in the USA if a patient is injured or dies due to a negligent act or omission on the part of a health care provider it is deemed malpractice. We have without a doubt the most thorough and active malpractice monitoring system in the world. The data is widely available and it is nowhere bear 250,000 per year  (it is under 15,000). The definition of error must include patient non-compliance or any death that could have somehow been avoided or postponed if the illness could have been discovered earlier.  If an anti-vaxxer catches covid and treats themselves with Ivermectin and dies without visiting a doctor- that is a medical error but it is not malpractice. Doctors can only recommend to their patients that they have a colonoscopy when they are over 50. Every year there are thousands of deaths from colon cancer that could have been avoided,. Medical error or malpractice?  Hundreds of thousands of people are ignoring medical advice to get vaccinated, many will die of covid. Medical error or malpractice?  Did a doctor recommend to the nursing home that all patients should get a booster shot?  I guess we will find out in due course.

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22 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I dont know who the "John Hopkins patient safety experts" are or how they define an "error" but in the USA if a patient is injured or dies due to a negligent act or omission on the part of a health care provider it is deemed malpractice. We have without a doubt the most thorough and active malpractice monitoring system in the world. The data is widely available and it is nowhere bear 250,000 per year  (it is under 15,000). The definition of error must include patient non-compliance or any death that could have somehow been avoided or postponed if the illness could have been discovered earlier.  If an anti-vaxxer catches covid and treats themselves with Ivermectin and dies without visiting a doctor- that is a medical error but it is not malpractice. Doctors can only recommend to their patients that they have a colonoscopy when they are over 50. Every year there are thousands of deaths from colon cancer that could have been avoided,. Medical error or malpractice?  Hundreds of thousands of people are ignoring medical advice to get vaccinated, many will die of covid. Medical error or malpractice?  Did a doctor recommend to the nursing home that all patients should get a booster shot?  I guess we will find out in due course.

Nursing home patients don’t self medicate …a. Doctor is responsible 

 

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17 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Nursing home patients don’t self medicate …a. Doctor is responsible 

 

Slug .

I 100% agree with you that something went terribly wrong at the New Canaan nursing home. When 67 residents out of a total of 70 get infected over a 6 week period? Whether the outbreak started before or after booster shots were available, all kinds of protocols must either not been in place or failed in some way.  If booster shots were available and they simply did not prioritize this low income facility, then that is ghastly.  But even without booster shots something else was not working.  I just dont want to speculate what that was.  Something continued to go wrong in week 1, 2 and 3.

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6 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Slug .

I 100% agree with you that something went terribly wrong at the New Canaan nursing home. When 67 residents out of a total of 70 get infected over a 6 week period? Whether the outbreak started before or after booster shots were available, all kinds of protocols must either not been in place or failed in some way.  If booster shots were available and they simply did not prioritize this low income facility, then that is ghastly.  But even without booster shots something else was not working.  I just dont want to speculate what that was.  Something continued to go wrong in week 1, 2 and 3.

You would think that after the nursing home disaster in New York the authorities would be later focused on protecting the old people 

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I wish we could have vaccination rates like yours, Eye. My county is barely above 50% of entire population fully vaccinated, and that means double shots, not boosters. And hence we have yet another wave of infections underway.

 

Screen Shot 2021-11-26 at 5.57.58 AM.png

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Today should be interesting,    25% of the office sick and positive for CoViD, starting Wednesday.   75% of the sick people are vaccinated.     We are scary short handed even if the county doesn’t send the unvaccinated healthy home.    Since this is Gym Jordan’s district, it will be odd for them to enforce isolation, when they discourage vaccines and masks.   I even reported the county health department on the governors mask hotline back before DeWine gave up due to attempted impeachment,  I figure its the unvaccinated people’s choice, their consequences.    If they fear a vaccine more then the virus, so be it.   Meanwhile, vaccine clearly doesn’t prevent illness for 6 months.  I paid vaccine bonuses to some of these people in May or June.

A manager went in yesterday to cancel, rearrange and lighten this morning.   A lot more will have to be cancelled over the next 10 days.   I’m going in early to celebrate.  I also worked half a day on my scheduled day off Wednesday.   
 

I think I’ll get Christmas bonuses out early for those who are going to be short paychecks.   Paid time off is mostly used up by now.   So much for next year’s remodeling fund.

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5 hours ago, Lark said:

Today should be interesting,    25% of the office sick and positive for CoViD, starting Wednesday.   75% of the sick people are vaccinated.     We are scary short handed even if the county doesn’t send the unvaccinated healthy home.    Since this is Gym Jordan’s district, it will be odd for them to enforce isolation, when they discourage vaccines and masks.   I even reported the county health department on the governors mask hotline back before DeWine gave up due to attempted impeachment,  I figure its the unvaccinated people’s choice, their consequences.    If they fear a vaccine more then the virus, so be it.   Meanwhile, vaccine clearly doesn’t prevent illness for 6 months.  I paid vaccine bonuses to some of these people in May or June.

A manager went in yesterday to cancel, rearrange and lighten this morning.   A lot more will have to be cancelled over the next 10 days.   I’m going in early to celebrate.  I also worked half a day on my scheduled day off Wednesday.   
 

I think I’ll get Christmas bonuses out early for those who are going to be short paychecks.   Paid time off is mostly used up by now.   So much for next year’s remodeling fund.

So almost 20% of your staff are vaccinated but tested positive? That's a bit discouraging. What total percentage of your staff are fully vaccinated?

I'm not being critical of you. It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing

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6 hours ago, accnick said:

So almost 20% of your staff are vaccinated but tested positive? That's a bit discouraging. What total percentage of your staff are fully vaccinated?

I'm not being critical of you. It sounds like you are trying to do the right thing

I have 10 of 17 vaccinated (full and part time), heavily stratified by education.    The county is 40% vaccinated, matching its political orientation.   Four vaccinated people are ill, at least 3 confirmed positive.   One passed out at home briefly (hypotension, not hypoxia).    1 non vaccinated person is ill and tested positive, reportedly just the sniffles.  Her response when I approached her about the vaccine bonus was 'I'm not scared of the virus'.  Frustrating.   My small sample size isn't meaningful, but doesn't speak very well for vaccination.   I knew it would hit us eventually but counted on core people to mostly keep working since they were mostly vaccinated.   

My five day exposure test is tomorrow.   I may have been case zero.   My GF (also Influenza and CoViD vaccinated) had a cough but her corporate employer encouraged her to keep working since she was in a lab by herself.   Nobody else got sick.  She wore a mask at home and isolated.   A week later I had a sore throat for a day, slight nasal congestion for a couple days (never needed a Kleenex) and coughed one night.  I called off the next day so I could test, but was negative.  I quit coughing by the time I had coffee.   Five days later the office outbreak started.   It was 7 months after my initial vaccine, they didn't approve boosters for my age until the day I was briefly symptomatic and tested negative. 

There are other possible sources.    One non vaccinated person was sent home with allergies on occasion and another issued a warning for calling off ill every time she went out for the evening.   There is regular contact with the mostly non masked public.  I would need to hire an armed guard ordered to shoot violators, and fast enough on the draw to consistently shoot first, if I wanted to enforce a mask order.   Blood from bullet holes is also listed as a dangerous work environment per OSHA, so we decided against this policy.   The employees least likely to mask are healthy and non vaccinated.   From an epidemiological standpoint, my office is as random as the whole damn pandemic had been.   

 

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On 11/26/2021 at 7:09 PM, Lark said:

I have 10 of 17 vaccinated (full and part time), heavily stratified by education.    The county is 40% vaccinated, matching its political orientation.   Four vaccinated people are ill, at least 3 confirmed positive.   One passed out at home briefly (hypotension, not hypoxia).    1 non vaccinated person is ill and tested positive, reportedly just the sniffles.  Her response when I approached her about the vaccine bonus was 'I'm not scared of the virus'.  Frustrating.   My small sample size isn't meaningful, but doesn't speak very well for vaccination.   I knew it would hit us eventually but counted on core people to mostly keep working since they were mostly vaccinated.   

My five day exposure test is tomorrow.   I may have been case zero.   My GF (also Influenza and CoViD vaccinated) had a cough but her corporate employer encouraged her to keep working since she was in a lab by herself.   Nobody else got sick.  She wore a mask at home and isolated.   A week later I had a sore throat for a day, slight nasal congestion for a couple days (never needed a Kleenex) and coughed one night.  I called off the next day so I could test, but was negative.  I quit coughing by the time I had coffee.   Five days later the office outbreak started.   It was 7 months after my initial vaccine, they didn't approve boosters for my age until the day I was briefly symptomatic and tested negative. 

There are other possible sources.    One non vaccinated person was sent home with allergies on occasion and another issued a warning for calling off ill every time she went out for the evening.   There is regular contact with the mostly non masked public.  I would need to hire an armed guard ordered to shoot violators, and fast enough on the draw to consistently shoot first, if I wanted to enforce a mask order.   Blood from bullet holes is also listed as a dangerous work environment per OSHA, so we decided against this policy.   The employees least likely to mask are healthy and non vaccinated.   From an epidemiological standpoint, my office is as random as the whole damn pandemic had been.   

 

The viral load in a vaccinated Covid positive person is the same as the viral load in an unvaccinated Covid positive person 

the vaccine  does not prevent transmission 

 

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Just now, slug zitski said:

The viral load in a vaccinated Covid positive person is the same as the viral load in an unvaccinated Covid positive person 

Unclear.   There has been European conjecture that mucosal antibodies (IgM? by memory) may interfere with viral shedding even though virus shows up on PCR or AG tests.   I am not aware of any good quantitative viral studies (vs plus / minus).   It would be very hard to cross match vaccinated and non vaccinated people in a blind fashion based on strain, duration and severity.   But even if a quantitative test picked up virus particle, that doesn't determine if its bound up by antibodies and less infectious (think of a bunch of hair clumped around cockleburs.   The cockleburs are still there, but they don't stick to your sock near as much after they come out of the dog's coat).      

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5 minutes ago, Lark said:

Unclear.   There has been European conjecture that mucosal antibodies (IgM? by memory) may interfere with viral shedding even though virus shows up on PCR or AG tests.   I am not aware of any good quantitative viral studies (vs plus / minus).   It would be very hard to cross match vaccinated and non vaccinated people in a blind fashion based on strain, duration and severity.   But even if a quantitative test picked up virus particle, that doesn't determine if its bound up by antibodies and less infectious (think of a bunch of hair clumped around cockleburs.   The cockleburs are still there, but they don't stick to your sock near as much after they come out of the dog's coat).      

The viral load statement came from Dr. Fauci 

 

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8 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

The viral load statement came from Dr. Fauci 

 

I assume he was referring to the UC Davis study.   It hasn't been peer reviewed yet, and I'm unsure what the virus measurement methodology was.   It appears they had two separate populations, one of asymptomatic positives, some vaccinated and others not.   They also had a population of sick people without segregation by severity, relying on sample size for sensitivity.   Dr. Fauci likely knows more, so his opinion has weight.   They did have a qualifier, relating to my comment:    “Our study does not provide information on infectiousness,” Michelmore said. “Transmission will be influenced by several factors, not just vaccination status and viral load.” 

Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People | UC Davis

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant | medRxiv

Edit.  One key statement I saw was no apparent change in viral load based on symptoms, so staying home when sick may not make much difference compared to the three days before you got sick or the other guy that never got sick?   I guess that leaves social distancing and masks.

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10 minutes ago, Lark said:

I assume he was referring to the UC Davis study.   It hasn't been peer reviewed yet, and I'm unsure what the virus measurement methodology was.   It appears they had two separate populations, one of asymptomatic positives, some vaccinated and others not.   They also had a population of sick people without segregation by severity, relying on sample size for sensitivity.   Dr. Fauci likely knows more, so his opinion has weight.   They did have a qualifier, relating to my comment:    “Our study does not provide information on infectiousness,” Michelmore said. “Transmission will be influenced by several factors, not just vaccination status and viral load.” 

Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People | UC Davis

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant | medRxiv

Logic tells us that vaccinated people can transmit the virus 

simply look at Gibraltar … 100 percent vaccinated yet the transmission rate is so high that they have gone back into lockdown 

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I am getting my hair cut Tuesday. Should be ok, prob not much Omicron here yet. N95 mask. Salon clients mask optional so an sure nobody else will be.

Dentist Dec 8th. Routine cleaning. Have to take crowded public transportation to get there, an hour total RT. Will see. If not now, later not better. 

 

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Just now, slug zitski said:

Logic tells us that vaccinated people can transmit the virus 

simply look at Gibraltar … 100 percent vaccinated yet the transmission rate is so high that they have gone back into lockdown 

Agreed.   If I appeared to state otherwise in my post it wasn't my intention.   Vaccinated people still are a danger to the public, whether sick or healthy in appearance.    I even argued this possibility back in the dark ages when vaccines were just a dream.    My observation from my workplace was the reality that educated and important people were vaccinated.  Most of the people in quarantine fall in this category.   It had been optimistically assumed they would be the people least likely to be sick / quarantined.   The Davis study also increases the possibility it was an asymptomatic person (myself or other) that spread the disease. 

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Just now, NeedAClew said:

I am getting my hair cut Tuesday. Should be ok, prob not much Omicron here yet. N95 mask. Salon clients mask optional so an sure nobody else will be.

Dentist Dec 8th. Routine cleaning. Have to take crowded public transportation to get there, an hour total RT. Will see. If not now, later not better. 

 

Smart.  Gym Jordan used the same haircut place I did, four days prior.  I blame him and my hairdresser if I caught something.   

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1 minute ago, Lark said:

Agreed.   If I appeared to state otherwise in my post it wasn't my intention.   Vaccinated people still are a danger to the public, whether sick or healthy in appearance.    I even argued this possibility back in the dark ages when vaccines were just a dream.    My observation from my workplace was the reality that educated and important people were vaccinated.  Most of the people in quarantine fall in this category.   It had been optimistically assumed they would be the people least likely to be sick / quarantined.   The Davis study also increases the possibility it was an asymptomatic person (myself or other) that spread the disease. 

The only reliable protection is the classic   Social distancing , mask , wash your hands , drink your beer from the bottle and stay out of the brothels 

the “ vaccine “ only helps to prevent developing  Covid disease 

40 percent of ER Covid patients are fully vaccinated 

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Just now, slug zitski said:

The only reliable protection is the classic   Social distancing , mask , wash your hands , drink your beer from the bottle and stay out of the brothels 

the “ vaccine “ only helps to prevent developing  Covid disease 

40 percent of ER Covid patients are fully vaccinated 

Err.  Regarding the brothels:   If you go for a rearward mount does that reduce the risk?   :)

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9 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

The only reliable protection is the classic   Social distancing , mask , wash your hands , drink your beer from the bottle and stay out of the brothels 

the “ vaccine “ only helps to prevent developing  Covid disease 

40 percent of ER Covid patients are fully vaccinated 

And in a place where people are 100% vaxxed, it would be 100%.

Yet, that would be a great result (since 100% breakthrough would mean 10% of the level of 100% non-vaxxed, and much less likely to die as well)

But Sluggo can't understand that. 

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11 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

And in a place where people are 100% vaxxed, it would be 100%.

Yet, that would be a great result (since 100% breakthrough would mean 10% of the level of 100% non-vaxxed, and much less likely to die as well)

But Sluggo can't understand that. 

The Slug doesn't do maths or links.  I call serious bullshit on his 40% er # and his comment on Gibraltar is misleading at best.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

The Slug doesn't do maths or links.  I call serious bullshit on his 40% er # and his comment on Gibraltar is misleading at best.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

Normally I don’t answer foul mouth morons like you 

but I’ll make an exception 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/christmas-cancelled-gibraltar-vaccinations-b966816.html%3famp

 

19D0E857-452E-41AD-B3B6-49058F71E0B3.png

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9 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Normally I don’t answer foul mouth morons like you 

but I’ll make an exception 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/christmas-cancelled-gibraltar-vaccinations-b966816.html%3famp

 

 

Canceling Christmas = lockdown.  And I am the moron.

As to the foul mouth - guilty when addressing slugs like you.

edit: Christmas wasn't cancelled ala the RWNJ claims in the US, it was Christmas get togethers out of caution.  Maybe if you could actually comprehend what you read you wouldn't appear to be such a mental slug. And if you stop posting stupid shit I promise to not point it out.

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56 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Canceling Christmas = lockdown.  And I am the moron.

As to the foul mouth - guilty when addressing slugs like you.

edit: Christmas wasn't cancelled ala the RWNJ claims in the US, it was Christmas get togethers out of caution.  Maybe if you could actually comprehend what you read you wouldn't appear to be such a mental slug. And if you stop posting stupid shit I promise to not point it out.

and it was actually only government-run christmas functions. Recommendations for everyone else to consider it.

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3 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The viral load in a vaccinated Covid positive person is the same as the viral load in an unvaccinated Covid positive person ...

 

If that were true, then the vaccine would not have done ANYthing to reduce viral replication in your cells.

Dumbass

- DSK

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Nothing new here, just reinforcing the observations elsewhere that the vast majority of covid patients in our local hospital system are unvaccinated, and almost all those in ICU and likely to die soon are unvaccinated. Our county which supplies most of these patients is just over 55% fully vaccinated, but of course the rate is much higher for older folk, and they are most of those in hospital, so while it is hard to figure out the exact percentages, that means the advantage to being vaccinated is even greater.

Data are here https://carle.org/home/covid-19-resources/carle-health-covid-numbers230633252_ScreenShot2021-12-03at8_56_49AM.thumb.png.f6f60f212c9b5bfae2abd38f3328fcf4.png

 

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ODH raising alarm about surging COVID cases, hospitalizations (news5cleveland.com)

My NPR station reported that northern hospitals were at times diverting ambulances and cancelling some procedures.   I'm west central Ohio, also poorly vaccinated but less affected (hospitalization rates about half of the state overall).   One local nursing home is seeing a bump in sick residents (vaccinated I hope).   

I've finally got most of my staff back with no new cases after Thanksgiving.  6 of 17 people were infected, half were vaccinated.    3 of 10 vaccinated people and 3 of 7 unvaccinated people missed work.   Two were never tested due to a bad case of Trumpism, but treated as positive (they tried to claim it was food poisoning with a bad cough).  Severity was mild to moderate and randomly distributed.   The sickest was 50 and vaccinated.   The county never attempted to enforce quarantine of unvaccinated exposed people.    Since nobody broke after the first wave it would have been a useless economic burden.   This may have been helped by the holiday and a few planned personal days.   The two untested people were already scheduled off to kill deer, so they weren't around to expose anybody before the cough became obvious.   Two vaccinated people weren't in the office to be exposed.   

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Our latest area figures, for a population of 104,000

Zero deaths,

Zero on ventilation,

5 new into with covid in hospital, but covid may not be the cause of them being in hospital.

Total with covid in hospital 18.

58 positive tests.

About 75% fully vaccinated  age 12 and above, 2shots, They're still working on 12-18s second doses. Which when complete will take total to high 80s percentage.

30% have had booster... Mine is tomorrow...

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On 11/30/2021 at 5:10 AM, slug zitski said:

Logic tells us that vaccinated people can transmit the virus 

simply look at Gibraltar … 100 percent vaccinated yet the transmission rate is so high that they have gone back into lockdown 

What is the booster regime in Gibraltar? Has the vax effectiveness diminished (about 5-6 months last I read), and have boosters been administered effectively to counter this?

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On 11/29/2021 at 2:21 PM, slug zitski said:

 

40 percent of ER Covid patients are fully vaccinated 

Cite that number please.  Because the fed says 3%, and Henry Ford in michigan says 15%.

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12 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Cite that number please.  Because the fed says 3%, and Henry Ford in michigan says 15%.

I’d like to see that cite too.  Would also want to know if that Henry Ford 15% number was at the Detroit hospital (wouldn’t surprise me), or all their EDs combined. Very different patient populations at their hospitals (I worked there pre retirement).

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Table 1 shows count of deaths involving COVID-19 and percentage of all deaths by vaccination status, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 2 July 2021
Vaccination
status
Deaths involving
COVID-19
Non-COVID-19
deaths
Percent of
all deaths
All deaths
regardless
of vaccination
status
51,281 214,701 19.3
Unvaccinated 38,964 65,170 37.4
Deaths within
21 days of
first dose
4,388 14,265 23.5
Deaths 21 days
or more after
first dose
7,289 66,533 9.9
Deaths within
21 days of
second dose
182 11,470 1.6
Deaths 21 days
or more after
second dose
458 57,263 0.8

 

Note the last line of figures...

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We have another two new cases.   One not vaccinated, one had three vaccines and always wore a mask.   This is 15 days after last of the first wave.  Based on us, isolating non vaccinated people wouldn't helped, they would have been sent home again as soon as they were allowed to work.   So far we've had 8 positives, four vaccinated.   Due to the small sample, any statistical benefit of vaccine is hidden.  Therefore the anti vaxxers are increasingly confident they were right the entire time, and us magnetized types were fools to trust in Fauci.   It seems clear to me the vaccine provides modest protection from hospitalization and fair protection from death.   It's better then malaria drugs.   It isn't a very good vaccine and the second generation is long overdue.   I believe it is delayed not by technology, but by economics. Pfizer and Moderna have a guaranteed market and no reason to exert themselves trying to replace their own product until somebody else is already steeling their market share.

I'm short handed again, after spending the weekend calculating what I could afford for Christmas bonuses after the last slowdown, and bonuses for key people who worked so hard to keep us going a couple weeks ago (two of which are now positive).   The economic impact of continually being short handed due to quarantines has to be one of the most expensive aspects of this virus, after medical costs for the severe cases and immediately before back orders from other people that are short handed.      

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New restrictions because of omicron for us next week.  Household + 10 vaxxed people max for Xmas gatherings, large venues restricted to 50% capacity, large sports events must be postponed to January, no NYE celebrations, unvaxxed may not gather in any numbers, but bars and restaurants can stay open for now.

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This morning’s ferry sailing to the island was cancelled because too many crew, or replacement crew, have the virus to be able to run the boat.  Major issues getting crew members to wear masks, and vaccinate, IIRR there were Union negotiations going on about it.  Don’t know if they’re settled yet.  There was a sick out in Sept-Oct, don’t know if this is the same. But rumor on the island is crew is actually sick.

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I'm in Cape Town for two months, so will report the situation here. It's a big city with disparate parts with different situations, but overall we are about to exceed previous records for daily cases, and rapidly at that as Omicron does its thing. Still no changes in rules and regulations, mask-wearing in public places has long been the norm, and many wear their masks outdoors too.

842625908_ScreenShot2021-12-18at9_26_54AM.png.7a95c076983848c13f7c3361fa7d1805.png

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That got me thinking about how my local east-central Illinois area is doing, and turns out not that good, with massive spikes in cases, but as always it is mostly the unvaccinated (still over 40%) that are suffering.

872852483_ScreenShot2021-12-18at9_54_49AM.png.0d8a2f377c812ace23a09a6f2855bb9e.png1616925179_ScreenShot2021-12-18at9_53_01AM.thumb.png.83bf949c566156410a4817d50bc611e2.png

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here’s a letter from our County Public Health Administrator of San Juan Island Washington State, Dr Frank James.

It’s going to be hard here, and we are well vaccinated.  This sounds so much like the 2nd wave of the 1918 flu, in some ways:

 

“Just to be clear. This is the quiet before the storm. Be wise and prudent and dont go out to eat, dont travel for the holidays, love the ones you are with now and have been with all along. January will be the hardest time in my lifetime. I am 70 now and lived through easy times from a historical perspective. My time in the 'uniformed services' was on Navajo in the Public Health Service. But these will be hard times. Two years in we think we have suffered, and many have but the coming wave will penetrate deeply into our society. The vaccinated will largely get bad colds and yet will be infectious and the disease will spread more quickly than every and get to the entire population.

If you are not vaccinated and are higher risk you could easily die. Our hospitals are already at or past maximum occupancy, locally running over 100% occupancy more than under. The critical element that is missing are not rooms, beds or supplies but rather personnel. We are short on highly trained people and that is a shortage that can not be imagined away or magically fixed with more money or changes in policy. We will hit a place where we move to 'crisis standards of care'-- which means some people will get care and others will not. Healthcare providers will have to choose between those with COVID and require intubation and those with heart attacks and need immediate surgery.

This is coming at us quickly but sort of in slow motion. Here is some advice:

Do not travel for the holidays. Spend time with those you love at home that you have already been spending time with.

Do not eat out, it seems safe but this disease will sweep through our communities quickly and the fact has not changed that people are most infectious in the 48 hours BEFORE they develop symtoms.

Be prepared to take care of yourself. Buy a pulse oxemiter now, give them for Christmas presents, if you run below 94 call your doctor if you are below 90 call EMS. 

Something as old fashioned as a humidifier, the old fashioned things we used when kids had coughs when they were little, will reduce the rate of pneumonia in kids and adults. In the winter when we heat our homes it dries the air out inside (yes even when it is raining outside) and the moisture in the air keep you lungs and upper airways able to mobilize and cough out the junk that otherwise clogs up your lungs. Ask an otolaryngologist if you dont believe me.

Please be kind. Especially if you are fairly sure you know the Truth and feel obligated to share your insights with others or if you are angry about not getting what you think you need or want. The healthcare folks..... they are exhausted. I see my own staff in tears fairly often these days they have been working hard, exposed to real risk to them (and their families) for 2 YEARS now, and they are literally exhausted. They are going to be a little cranky themselves at some point so be patient with them, they are still showing up and honestly they are even more 'over it' than you could even imagine.

Over the next two weeks we are going to go up a hill that will seem to go on forever. This is the beginning, not the end of the hard part. You are tired of it all, so is everyone else. We want to be over and for things to go back to normal. That is not going to happen until we get over the next 6 weeks. Stop pretending it is over. Stop the parties, the dinners out, the travel... just stop it, now. 

If we dont we are going to be in a world of hurt. In San Juan we still have not had any deaths in the county, we have half the infection rates of the second lowest county in the US. We are going to have deaths and our infection rates are going to go up dramatically. It is not about the quality of the public health response this bug is really bad. Less sever perhaps for those immunized we may just get 'a bad cold' but the immune compromised and the elders and most of all the unimmunized, they will be at that time in life when life could end, yes permanently. And they are parents that may not be there to take care of their children, grand parents that may not see the next Christmas, children than may not be in class in 2022. So damn it get vaccinated, wear a mask when you are out of the house (an N95 or KN 95 as they are no longer in short supply - finally!) If you wear cloth one a paper one should be under it.

This will sound odd but Merry Christmas! Going through a pandemic is a disaster but we can get to the other side together and with our humanity and caring intact. We can learn from this what really matters (and it is each other). My mother's sign that hung in our kitchen growing up still hangs in mine. The most important things in life.... aren't things.”

 
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On 12/13/2021 at 6:28 PM, The Q said:

 

Table 1 shows count of deaths involving COVID-19 and percentage of all deaths by vaccination status, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 2 July 2021
Vaccination
status
Deaths involving
COVID-19
Non-COVID-19
deaths
Percent of
all deaths
All deaths
regardless
of vaccination
status
51,281 214,701 19.3
Unvaccinated 38,964 65,170 37.4
Deaths within
21 days of
first dose
4,388 14,265 23.5
Deaths 21 days
or more after
first dose
7,289 66,533 9.9
Deaths within
21 days of
second dose
182 11,470 1.6
Deaths 21 days
or more after
second dose
458 57,263 0.8

 

Note the last line of figures...

Citation?

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1 hour ago, Ncik said:

Citation?

Deaths involving COVID-19 by vaccination status, England - Office for National Statistics

The ONS are a government (not political) body that analyses and publishes national Statistics, often to the embarrassment of the in power, political party of the time..

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New restrictions here in BC today.  Bars, sports gyms, dance studios etc. are closed and other indoor events (parties, weddings) cancelled.  Large sports events restricted to 50% capacity.  Pubs and restaurants open with social distancing and masks except when eating/drinking.  All surgery cancelled from Jan 4 on.

Omicron is everywhere here now, we set a new record of cases today: 1300/24 hours.

On the health care side, the concern isn't so much that omicron will fill the ICU's, it is that too many health care workers will all get sick at once.  

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Omicron spreading rapidly. See details below

Changes in COVID-19 therapeutics;  See details below.

COVID-19 Clinical Trends: Very high, record-setting community transmission, Omicron becoming dominant
• 14-day change in case rates: + 69% in CT, + 176% in Fairfield County
• ******* Hospital test positivity rate: + 26% last week (+ 14% prior week)
• ****** weekly cases: 1192 last week (384 prior week)
• ******* Hosp COVID-19 census today: total 46, ICU 4, IMCU 6 (18 / 3 / 2 two weeks ago)
• Admitted patients unvaccinated: ICU 75%, IMCU 50%, other adult inpatients 47%


• Omicron is spreading faster than anticipated, causing mild illness in most cases, with severe disease uncommon and shorter lengths of stay for most admitted patients. Unvaccinated and chronically ill or immunocompromised patients remain at risk. Outpatient sites (ED and ICC) are challenged by a very large number of patients with mild illness and those seeking testing. Our healthcare workforce has also been impacted by COVID illness and exposures; staffing shortages in many areas are actively being managed and revised models are being put in place. Please be patient.


COVID-19 Testing:
• Lab and PATH challenged by increasing demand and staff shortages, with plans underway to increase capacity and provide direct access for employees and medical staff
• Admitted patients and hospital staff prioritized; turnaround times for others may be longer
• Pre-surgical and pre-procedural testing to resume January 10
• Free home test-kit distribution (from the State of CT) to begin as early as Friday
o asymptomatic or mildly ill, low-risk patients with positive results should NOT get confirmatory tests, but should isolate at home for at least 5 days (see attached CT DPH guidance)
• Please do not send patients to the ED just for COVID-19 testing
COVID therapeutics update (see attached PDF for further details):
Prior monoclonal antibody therapies, bamlanivimab/etesevimab and casirivimab/imdevimab (REGEN-COV) are not effective against the Omicron variant.
Sotrovimab (effective against Omnicron) is now the only monoclonal antibody available in the infusion center, for COVID-19-infected patients at high risk for progression to severe disease
• Evusheld, composed of the long-acting antibodies tixagevimab and cilgavimab given IM, provides pre-exposure prophylaxis to immunocompromised patients, now available to  Cancer Center patients
• Oral rx for COVID-19, paxlovid (Pfizer; 90% efficacy in preventing severe disease) and molnupiravir (Merck; 30% efficacy) will be available shortly in very limited supply; distribution plans and restrictions are pending


New work restrictions and return policies for COVID infection and exposure (see attached PDF):
• Medical staff who are symptomatic should get tested and remain home until test results are available, regardless of vaccination status
• Those who test positive for COVID-19 may return to work after 5 days if symptoms are improving and there has been resolution of any fever over 24 hours.
• Fully vaccinated medical staff who have been exposed to COVID-19 and are asymptomatic may continue to work (and may undergo testing at the interval recommended by Employee Health Service)
• Contact Employee Health Service at 203-***-**** for guidance and assistance with testing

 Conflict of Interest Disclosure:
• Members of the medical staff are required to file an electronic conflict of interest disclosure statement annually. Watch for an email on or about January 3, 2022 with a link to the COI-SMART system to complete the electronic 2022 conflict of interest disclosure, It will be due by January 28.

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I am sorry I am not bearing better news.

The New York-Florida corridor is one of the epicenters of the recent surge. My colleagues believe that a significant contributing factor is holiday travel.

More on changes to therapy and protocols coming soon. The existing monoclonal antibody regimes are not effective against Omicron.  Sotravimab, appears to retain activity vs Omicron but supplies are extremely limited (we currently have none , and will prioritize high risk patients when more arrives)

In short, the shit has hit the fan. Thankfully most cases appear to be mild, but the hospital are having to manage resources on a very tight leash. The scenario we do not like to think about is Omicron throwing off a more virulent mutation.

My sister, who worked in front line care of covid in 2020, has resigned from hospital staff and general medicine practice today. She is done. Combination of stress and staffing levels. She has suddenly gone "conspiracy theory" on me. Anyway, another one bites the dust.

2/3rds of my staff are out, which means even if I want to do surgery, I dont have staff. As it is almost all patients have cancelled elective surgery. I had 20 examinations scheduled yesterday and only 1 showed up. I put on some music and worked on electronic records. Eerily peaceful day.  

 

 

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TO: Medical Staff
FROM: ********, Chief Physician Executive
C********** MD, MS, Director of Infectious Diseases
RE: COVID-19 Therapeutics Update
============================================================
As COVID-19 cases continue to rise in our community, there is an increasing need to utilize as many strategies as possible to prevent viral transmission, severe disease, hospitalization, and death.

While vaccination continues to be a vital tool, there have
been significant developments in COVID-19 therapeutics over the past few days and will be summarized here.


1. Changes to monoclonal antibodies availability.

Monoclonal antibodies continue to be effective in prevention of severe disease and hospitalization in patients with mild to moderate COVID-19. But it is unlikely that our current monoclonal antibody regimens, ie. bamlanivimab and etesevimab administered together or REGEN-COV, will retain activity against the Omicron variant, which is soon to be the most predominant circulating strain of COVID-19 in the area.

Sotrovimab appears to retain activity against the Omicron variant. Based on this, appointments for REGEN-COV and bamlanivimab-etesivmab will no longer be offered. All existing appointments
will be granted. Sotrovimab will be the only monoclonal antibody available for use starting early next week and appointments will be booked once we receive shipment of the drug. Supplies of sotrovimab are limited presently, and its use at ******** Health will be prioritized for patients who are at high risk for progression to severe disease. This will be reflected on the updated order form
posted on the Pharmacy intranet site.

Going forward, our ability to administer sotrovimab to patients will be limited by supply from the state, and updates will be provided when we can.


2. Prophylactic monoclonal antibody for high-risk patients. EVUSHELD, a combination of 2 long-acting monoclonal antibodies, is now authorized for preexposure prophylaxis. It is indicated for patients who have moderate to severe immune compromise due to a medical condition or receipt of immunosuppressive therapy and who may not mount an adequate immune response to vaccination, or for whom COVID-19 vaccination is not recommended due to allergy. It is administered as two separate consecutive IM injections (one injection per monoclonal antibody, given in immediate succession) with 1 hour post administration monitoring. This regimen has been shown to reduce the risk of acquiring COVID-19 for 6 months by 77%. Based on the clinical recommendations for its use and the anticipated initial supply, this drug will be administered to Cancer Center patients only starting Monday December 27th. As supply improves, a method to administer this to other patients who qualify will be formulated.


3. Oral pills for COVID-19.

In the past 48 hours, two new oral therapies for COVID-19 were issued an emergency use authorization (EUA), Paxlovid (Pfizer) and Molnupiravir (Merck). Both are indicated for individuals with mild to moderate COVID-19 who are at high risk for progression to severe disease and hospitalization. They are to be given within the first few days of symptoms onset. A plan to dispense these medications is being coordinated at the state level, and more details will follow in the coming weeks.


If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Dr. ******, MD, MS, Director of Infectious Diseases

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Locally Numbers in hospital with covid are up 38%, almost all Omicron. But, that's mostly with covid not because of covid. ( All are tested on arrival). Those few needing treatment because of covid are 90% unvaccinated.

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7 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

Rather than announcing the impending lower availability of monoclonal antibodies due to the "potential" lower effectiveness of existing monoclonal antibodies against the newer Omicron variant, why wouldn't they announce a rushed effort to produce and distribute a new version of the monoclonal antibodies tailored to Omicron varient?

Is there any reason why the process would be any more complicated or time consuming than it was to produce the first version? 

Is there any reason why you didn't go to med school yourself, so you could actually do something and understand the answers... instead of this jumping up and down on the sidelines, being a numskull anti-vaxxer and yelling about how smart you are?

- DSK

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7 hours ago, Tharsheblows said:

Rather than announcing the impending lower availability of monoclonal antibodies due to the "potential" lower effectiveness of existing monoclonal antibodies against the newer Omicron variant, why wouldn't they announce a rushed effort to produce and distribute a new version of the monoclonal antibodies tailored to Omicron varient?

Is there any reason why the process would be any more complicated or time consuming than it was to produce the first version? 

1. Its not an announcement. It is an internal memo.

2. Medical practitioners are not interested in "spin"  or false appearances of certainty. We only want the facts as we know them, and we are used to working with uncertainty.

The facts , as we know them are that, bamlanivimab and etesevimab administered together, aka REGEN-COV, appear to be less effective against omicron, and possibly ineffective. I'm sorry that at this stage we cannot be more definitive than that. If you want a definitive statement based on incomplete data, find yourself a politician. 

As of last week, we stopped making new appointments to administer REGEN-COV. Obviously we will complete the course of treatment for anyone who has already embarked on treatment. All future appointments will be for Sotrovimab. We cannot administer Sotrovimab until Monday because we don't have any.  Again, if you want to find someone who will tell you that it is  easy to ramp up nationwide production of a monoclonal antibody and that we we will have adequate supply for everyone tomorrow, find yourself a politician. I'm sure they will be happy to oblige and when the therapy is not available as promised, they will find someone else to blame. Probably us.

In the meantime, we will prioritize high risk patients with limited supplies of therapeutics and limited staffing.  If you dont like the work we are doing, then the best way to avoid us is by getting........, well you know that anyway.

 

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15 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

Sure, that makes sense.  The memo is not a global game plan.  

Correct. It is our current plan to treat patients in our community.

If anyone wants a "global game plan", you know who I am going to refer you to.  How are those global game plans working out for us thus far?

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36 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

Sure, and we appreciate you guys staying on task (treating patients in your community), but as much as it pains you to weigh in on the global strategy (COVID politics) we also need doctors to speak up if they think things can be done better or different. 

 

 

Doctors with expertise in virology and infectious diseases are providing their insights, "speaking up". They are just not including you in the conversation. SA is not seen as an effective platform to discuss and determine current and future treatment strategy. I cannot imagine why.

40 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

As far as REGEN-COV, would you agree that up until now the monoclonal antibodies were one of the more effective therapies for people who tested positive?

Yes. For those showing symptoms of progressing to moderate or severe disease.

The downside (as Im sure you realize) to using antibodies for treatment vs prevention is that it is very expensive and requires scarce resources.

41 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

And, would you agree that the most likely reason for the waning effectiveness of REGEN-COV is the increasing number of mutations of the contemporary strains of COVID making the cloned antibodies less efficient at recognizing their target?

Not exactly.  I think the question is perhaps phrased incorrectly. REGEN_COV remains highly effective against the virus molecules that the antibodies were generated for. No sign of "waning".  It will not be effective against certain variants where different antibodies are required and different antibodies would be generated by your body in response. I apologize if my answer is a bit rushed. We cannot anticipate variants characteristics. 

 

44 minutes ago, Tharsheblows said:

shouldn’t producing a next generation version be a priority for those whose job it is to think about global strategy

Yes and it is a priority, all the time.  The response speed of modern molecular medical research is simply phenomenal. Monoclonal antibodies that 10 years ago would result from 2 years of research and testing are being produced in 6-8 weeks. The testing is the key hurdle in the timeline. The law of numbers mean that shortcuts will eventually bite us....but the calculation is that we are saving more lives than we are risking.

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Correct. It is our current plan to treat patients in our community.

If anyone wants a "global game plan", you know who I am going to refer you to.  How are those global game plans working out for us thus far?

A  global plan may be impossible to achieve , regardless of industrial country hoarding  

very many countries refuse to sign off on the vaccine liability waiver . 

 

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County just went up 49 cases since 12/24, mainly one island (not ours)- looks like holiday visitors/off island travel.  If you look at the following chart, you will see 49 is a fairly large number. Tourism is big, and caught up with us in August, along with off island travel, and the holidays.

(Anyone else not taking their cars under warranty in to be serviced?)
 

 

92E94566-3A5B-427D-9708-210149A0F7F2.jpeg

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

A  global plan may be impossible to achieve , regardless of industrial country hoarding  

very many countries refuse to sign off on the vaccine liability waiver . 

 

Link?

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3 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Since You’re a know it all ,west coast little man , I would think that you would be aware of this liability issue

perhaps you should read more and talk less

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Hey, be nice. I might be last person here that doesn't have you on ignore.  I must be getting into your head, though, if a simple request for a link gets such a nasty response. 

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1 minute ago, Rain Man said:

Hey, be nice. I might be last person here that doesn't have you on ignore.  I must be getting into your head, though, if a simple request for a link gets such a nasty response. 

Put me on ignore immediately