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A Marine tells it like it is about the Afghanistan pull out.


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4 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Stu Scheller Sr. described his son as a proud American who loves the Marine Corps and has served proudly for the past 17 years. 

That's just a dad's way of looking at these actions.

'Have to question the term "served proudly" if he has been an insubordinate seditionist all his career. 

Wonder if he's a hero or zero in the brig at Camp "LeJourne." 

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3 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

That's just a dad's way of looking at these actions.

'Have to question the term "served proudly" if he has been an insubordinate seditionist all his career. 

Wonder if he's a hero or zero in the brig at Camp "LeJourne." 

Probably both. Some revere him, others dislike him for upsetting discipline standards. 

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

That's just a dad's way of looking at these actions.

'Have to question the term "served proudly" if he has been an insubordinate seditionist all his career. 

Wonder if he's a hero or zero in the brig at Camp "LeJourne." 

Object of pity. 

 He had multiple combat deployments and has probably lost some men. Seen the blown up and mutilated bodies of his brothers. Heard the screams of them and the people he and his bros killed. He seems to be one of those guys for whom all that horror being for nothing is unacceptable and it blew a fuse. He's not even blaming the right people.   

   

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52 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Object of pity. 

 He had multiple combat deployments and has probably lost some men. Seen the blown up and mutilated bodies of his brothers. Heard the screams of them and the people he and his bros killed. He seems to be one of those guys for whom all that horror being for nothing is unacceptable and it blew a fuse. He's not even blaming the right people.

This is his archived bio (the Marines took it down):

https://web.archive.org/web/20210901215255/https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Leaders/Leaders-View/Article/2692528/lieutenant-colonel-stuart-p-scheller/

I think he blew a fuse too, but I'm not sure which fuse or what the overload was. It maybe be that he got radicalized, or in the words of Steven Carillo, he became unreasonable.

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Some of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound . .  

dealing with such issues as PTSD, moral injury, CTE and more. 

Scheller needs to get some help so he can be useful to himself and others. 

He is quite right to call for accountability, but it looks as though he 

has picked out some of the wrong targets for his anger. 

Speaking of accountability, the US really needs to prosecute 

the torture enablers and practitioners in Afghanistan and elsewhere. 

That is not who we are, and those who did it must face justice. 

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8 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Some of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound . .  

dealing with such issues as PTSD, moral injury, CTE and more. 

Scheller needs to get some help so he can be useful to himself and others. 

He is quite right to call for accountability, but it looks as though he 

has picked out some of the wrong targets for his anger. 

Speaking of accountability, the US really needs to prosecute 

the torture enablers and practitioners in Afghanistan and elsewhere. 

That is not who we are, and those who did it must face justice. 

He just missed the lesson on choosing which hill to die on.  

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4 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Some of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound . .  

dealing with such issues as PTSD, moral injury, CTE and more. 

Scheller needs to get some help so he can be useful to himself and others. 

He is quite right to call for accountability, but it looks as though he 

has picked out some of the wrong targets for his anger. 

Speaking of accountability, the US really needs to prosecute 

the torture enablers and practitioners in Afghanistan and elsewhere. 

That is not who we are, and those who did it must face justice. 

This is exactly who we are. 

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Speaking of accountability, the US really needs to prosecute 

the torture enablers and practitioners in Afghanistan and elsewhere. 

That is not who we are, and those who did it must face justice. 

Who? For what? If there is one thing governments achieve exellence in, it is spreading responsibility far and wide so noone can be personally liable.

The only obvious person you could go after would be Yoo. But for what? Providing bad legal advice?

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12 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

Who? For what? If there is one thing governments achieve exellence in, it is spreading responsibility far and wide so noone can be personally liable.

The only obvious person you could go after would be Yoo. But for what? Providing bad legal advice?

John Eastman, law professor at Chapman, was held accountable for his Shitstainery and straight up fired. No need to feel sorry for him. He was quickly picked up by the Claremont Institute, a right wing holding tank. Sadly, John Yoo is still at my alma mater.

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3 hours ago, Battlecheese said:

The only obvious person you could go after would be Yoo. But for what? Providing bad legal advice?

Somehow the indispensable exceptional nation state . . 

applies different legal standards to Elk from other countries. 

That is why the US is so opposed to the ICC - 

accountability is for those "others"  

Thousands of USAeans belong in orange jump suits 

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23 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

And . . .  in the parlance those are known as war crimes . . 

Certainly, if the ICC was holding american leadership to the same standard which is applied to select other countries, they would be having serious problems.

But in terms of actual legal evidence (as distinct from the "america says you did it, so you will be shot at dawn" standard usually used at the ICC) I think you will find that pretty much everyone is covering everyone else. Responsibility has been expertly dispersed.

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On 8/29/2021 at 11:16 PM, The Joker said:

Already removed from his command   as he clearly expected.  
 

Already been locked up.  :ph34r: 

 

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Jailed for disobeying a direct order to cease posting in social media. 

What they are hoping to do is save him from himself. Instead of accepting his resignation they hope a "time out" (ideally with some shrinks) can talk him out of this tree. He only has a couple years left for his 20, and with multiple combat deployments it would be a damn shame for him to lose them due to a temporary loss of mental and military bearing.  

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It was reported early on that he had ties to one of those killed at the airport.   I’m thinking it was one death to many and he snapped.  I agree the military is looking at a way out.  Moral is pretty low right now, I met a 20 year marine last Friday   He had spent most of that time in Afghanistan and Iraq the last few as a civilian.   He tried to tell our group his feelings and almost broke down in tears.   He was one of the last ones out of Afghanistan. 

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6 hours ago, spankoka said:

He's clearly in need of mental health care, and I hope he can still get his pension. 

If he's done his 20 years, he can... unless he gets stripped of his commission. That can happen to officers but not enlisted personnel

- DSK

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6 hours ago, The Joker said:

It was reported early on that he had ties to one of those killed at the airport.   I’m thinking it was one death to many and he snapped.  I agree the military is looking at a way out.  Moral is pretty low right now, I met a 20 year marine last Friday   He had spent most of that time in Afghanistan and Iraq the last few as a civilian.   He tried to tell our group his feelings and almost broke down in tears.   He was one of the last ones out of Afghanistan. 

Military suicides rise 15% as senior leaders call for action

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8 hours ago, The Joker said:

Moral is pretty low right now, I met a 20 year marine last Friday   He had spent most of that time in Afghanistan and Iraq the last few as a civilian.   He tried to tell our group his feelings and almost broke down in tears.

Well, aren't you just the compassionate little snowflake  . . 

those bat-shit crazy Forever Wars are ON YOU !! 

Sane Murrikans have been resisting them for decades , ,  

and all we got from your sorry-assed Elk were threats to our jobs and personal safety. 

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Looks like the USMC has granted compassionate release in order to let him get the mental health treatment he so obviously needs.

 

He looks like he’s gaining some clarity though - he told TFG and his Coke addled son to go fuck themselves

 

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On 10/5/2021 at 3:48 PM, Fakenews said:

Looks like the USMC has granted compassionate release in order to let him get the mental health treatment he so obviously needs.

 

He looks like he’s gaining some clarity though - he told TFG and his Coke addled son to go fuck themselves

 

Not the likely reason. The brig at Lejeune is usually around 98% empty. Just a few guys usually, and they could get him that help there without any complications. My best guess is his lawyer convinced the Corps he would stop posting on social media.  

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8 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Not the likely reason. The brig at Lejeune is usually around 98% empty. Just a few guys usually, and they could get him that help there without any complications. My best guess is his lawyer convinced the Corps he would stop posting on social media.  

Again.

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41 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

 

 

Wow.  He's toast.  Sad that he completely fucked over his wife.  She gave up any chance of a normal career to follow him with each PCS, quitting jobs and never moving up the pay scale etc.  Never staying in place long enough to get a good retirement package.   

 

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On 10/2/2021 at 4:00 PM, The Joker said:

It was reported early on that he had ties to one of those killed at the airport.   I’m thinking it was one death to many and he snapped.  I agree the military is looking at a way out.  Moral is pretty low right now, I met a 20 year marine last Friday   He had spent most of that time in Afghanistan and Iraq the last few as a civilian.   He tried to tell our group his feelings and almost broke down in tears.   He was one of the last ones out of Afghanistan. 

So, we should have stayed in Afghanistan and keep fighting middle eastern wars  so the marines wont get sad?

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I suppose he could start with a public apology for his intemperate behaviour and recant all of his criticism of the Afghanistan withdrawal.  The guy was cheerlead on by a pile of RWNJ's looking for someone to sacrifice their career to support their crusade against the Dems.

What is a Blue Moon? - Universe Today

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23 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I suppose he could start with a public apology for his intemperate behaviour and recant all of his criticism of the Afghanistan withdrawal.  The guy was cheerlead on by a pile of RWNJ's looking for someone to sacrifice their career to support their crusade against the Dems.

What is a Blue Moon? - Universe Today

Then they found out he hated Trump and dropped him like a burning turd.

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21 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Then they found out he hated Trump and dropped him like a burning turd.

Shitlibs hate him more. 

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The Frontline that aired tonight on Afghanistan is excellent for anyone who cares - it's complicated and the suffering is going to get worse but the one takeaway  is no foreign power will ever control that country.

Think of it like Shitlibs taking over Venom's neighborhood.   https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/leaving-afghanistan/

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Then they found out he hated Trump and dropped him like a burning turd.

Sweet! I did not know this. I'm beginning to feel sorry for this guy and I hope he gets some help.

Bitter TrumpWorld donors want their money back after Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller, once an outspoken pro-Trump voice opposed to President Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal, apparently turned on his far-right supporters and slammed former President Trump in a Facebook post.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/07/accused-criminals-foundation-forced-to-refund-maga-donors-angered-by-anti-posts/

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Axios reporting he's pleading guilty to some charges in exchange for the salvage of some of his pension.

I'm guessing he will be warmly embraced as a Walmart greeter if he don't sign up for a right wing nut job talking tour about UNFAIR......

https://www.axios.com/marine-afghanistan-withdrawal-plea-deal-b4ef60e3-bd12-470e-bcb5-20d49029711c.html

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10 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Axios reporting he's pleading guilty to some charges in exchange for the salvage of some of his pension.

I'm guessing he will be warmly embraced as a Walmart greeter if he don't sign up for a right wing nut job talking tour about UNFAIR......

https://www.axios.com/marine-afghanistan-withdrawal-plea-deal-b4ef60e3-bd12-470e-bcb5-20d49029711c.html

 His odds aren't bad. The Corps doesn't want this trial and someone has convinced him (rightly) neither does he. If his lawyer plays his cards right and he can look forward to a couple years in command of latrine cleanliness and supply followed with a career doing some effing thing bolstered with a well-earned pension as a multiple combat deployment Marine.  A display of remorse and a return of good judgement may even get his wife back. 

   He needs to grasp that no, we are not entitled to some great mission or success in service. It can be all for nothing without dishonor. It's a toughie.   

 

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, Olsonist said:

Sweet! I did not know this. I'm beginning to feel sorry for this guy and I hope he gets some help.

Bitter TrumpWorld donors want their money back after Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller, once an outspoken pro-Trump voice opposed to President Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal, apparently turned on his far-right supporters and slammed former President Trump in a Facebook post.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/07/accused-criminals-foundation-forced-to-refund-maga-donors-angered-by-anti-posts/

Oh, it's okay then now that he has denounced Trump we can all feel sorry for him. 

Typical shitlib mentality. 

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38 minutes ago, Venom said:

Oh, it's okay then now that he has denounced Trump we can all feel sorry for him. 

Typical shitlib mentality.

Punkista - I expressed sympathy several times above, as did others. 

Ya little fascist 

And yeah, hope he gets some pension too.  

His early views were not very far from lots of other vets - there was a gross failure of leadership 

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13 hours ago, another 505 sailor said:

I hope he doesn't lose all his retirement benefits. 18 year of service, most of it combat.

And he told TFG and son to F off.

I will never understand why more people don’t realize how they have been mislead by bullshitters  and do the same thing. Charges prolly spur a reality check and a return from bullshitter fantasy land. 

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I will never understand why more people don’t realize how they have been mislead by bullshitters  and do the same thing. Charges prolly spur a reality check and a return from bullshitter fantasy land. 

Because most are just doing it for the paycheck or for the chance to kill some people, they don't care about the why.

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5 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I will never understand why more people don’t realize how they have been mislead by bullshitters  and do the same thing. Charges prolly spur a reality check and a return from bullshitter fantasy land. 

Low information intake, and all but exclusively from FOX and like-such elk is my guess. Pretty common for soldiers to spend a lot of time after war studying WTF happened. From inside it's all about what's up close. 

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14 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

And yeah, hope he gets some pension too.  

His early views were not very far from lots of other vets - there was a gross failure of leadership

Guess that I should add that, though the Colonel was right, he chose to use intemperate language that was not going to accomplish anything. He also exhibited a strain of grandiosity which didn't help either. 

As I wrote above, lots of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound and/or wrestle with PTSD. 

In fact, a lot of us use our VFP activism as therapy - a way of partially dealing with our guilt.  

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

As I wrote above, lots of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound and/or wrestle with PTSD. 

In fact, a lot of us use our VFP activism as therapy - a way of partially dealing with our guilt.  

Vets for Poontang works wonders in far less time.

Guilt is man-made. You can choose to accept it or not. No one is keeping score.

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7 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Normal human beans feel guilt when they do horrific things . .

"Normal" ... heh heh. Good one, Ollie. 

Guilt is learned behavior based on fear.

Characterizing things as "horrific" is learned behavior. 

Somewhere between 1:10 and 1:6 support personnel back up every combat soldier. PTSD could be reduced/eliminated by much more careful selection of combat troops.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

"Normal" ... heh heh. Good one, Ollie. 

Guilt is learned behavior based on fear.

Characterizing things as "horrific" is learned behavior. 

Somewhere between 1:10 and 1:6 support personnel back up every combat soldier. PTSD could be reduced/eliminated by much more careful selection of combat troops.

 

 

 

PTSD has to do with trauma (that's the "T"), not guilt.  This is why plenty of health care workers have PTSD after seeing all the COVID death and stress.  Fairly guilt free, but a fair amount of trauma. 

 

Not sure why AJ thinks guilt causes ptsd. 

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24 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

PTSD has to do with trauma (that's the "T"), not guilt.  This is why plenty of health care workers have PTSD after seeing all the COVID death and stress.  Fairly guilt free, but a fair amount of trauma. 

 

Not sure why AJ thinks guilt causes ptsd. 

A distinction to be sure. At first glance ... maybe health workers recover from the trauma fairly quickly. Hopefully.

We know the soldiers do not although perhaps it wasn't the combat: 

In addition to combat-related PTSD, 7.7 percent of male homeless Iraq and Afghanistan veterans and nearly a quarter of female homeless veterans from these wars reported having PTSD that was related to previous traumas, which other studies show can include childhood abuse, assaults and rape. Furthermore, 15 percent of men and 34.1 percent of women in this sample who reported combat-related PTSD also reported PTSD that wasn't related to combat.

"A lot of studies show that homeless people often experience PTSD after becoming homeless, and that many veterans experienced trauma even before entering the military," says Tsai. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/03/ptsd-vets

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

A distinction to be sure. At first glance ... maybe health workers recover from the trauma fairly quickly. Hopefully.

We know the soldiers do not although perhaps it wasn't the combat: 

In addition to combat-related PTSD, 7.7 percent of male homeless Iraq and Afghanistan veterans and nearly a quarter of female homeless veterans from these wars reported having PTSD that was related to previous traumas, which other studies show can include childhood abuse, assaults and rape. Furthermore, 15 percent of men and 34.1 percent of women in this sample who reported combat-related PTSD also reported PTSD that wasn't related to combat.

"A lot of studies show that homeless people often experience PTSD after becoming homeless, and that many veterans experienced trauma even before entering the military," says Tsai. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/03/ptsd-vets

It was worth it. :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

PTSD could be reduced/eliminated by much more careful selection of combat troops.

It has been shown that psychopaths, feeling no guilt, don't have much trouble with PTSD. 

Looks like you have little exposure to Irish or Jewish mums. 

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

It has been shown that psychopaths, feeling no guilt, don't have much trouble with PTSD. 

Mentally healthy folks don't experience much trouble either.  It's all part of the Shit Happens philosophy. The cure is Get Over It or spend a lifetime whining about the unfairness of life and hoping for change while being oblivious to reality.

Looks like you have little exposure to Irish or Jewish mums. 

Nope. Learned behavior. Not all parents lay that relios-crapola on their children. 

Betcha $100 bucks the VFP roster is full of failed fuckups.

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19 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Mentally healthy folks experience guilt . . 

those who do not are often monsters. 

No one is arguing there are no monsters. Kinda hard shaking off all that stuff learned over a lifetime, eh Ollie?

Point is the topic is or was post combat PTSD. Your insinuation was if you don't feel guilt ... probably a psycho. That's silliness your momma taught you. 

Healthy grownup adults often have unpleasant things to do. The horror is entirely up to you and your momma. The rest of us do the job and move on.

That is actually much harder than whining addiction but that's what healthy folks do.

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

Point is the topic is or was post combat PTSD. Your insinuation was if you don't feel guilt ... probably a psycho. That's silliness your momma taught you. 

You don't know what you are talking/writing about . . . and have a very strange idea of what constitutes "healthy". 

It is a fact, whether either of us agrees with it or not, that post-combat troops (especially those who have harmed civilians, opposing troops, or troops on their own side) have extremely high rates of PTSD. 

Just because YOU do not feel it, does not mean that sane people do not. 

It is a FACT that guilt plagues many veterans . .   

https://jmvh.org/article/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-and-killing-in-combat-a-review-of-existing-literature/

Here is a novel idea . .  why don't you do a little reading before you spout off ?? 

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19 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

No one is arguing there are no monsters. Kinda hard shaking off all that stuff learned over a lifetime, eh Ollie?

Point is the topic is or was post combat PTSD. Your insinuation was if you don't feel guilt ... probably a psycho. That's silliness your momma taught you. 

Healthy grownup adults often have unpleasant things to do. The horror is entirely up to you and your momma. The rest of us do the job and move on.

That is actually much harder than whining addiction but that's what healthy folks do.

@Blue Crabhonest question: do you think PTSD is just whining? Or a real, medical condition?

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

You don't know what you are talking/writing about . . . and have a very strange idea of what constitutes "healthy". 

It is a fact, whether either of us agrees with it or not, that post-combat troops (especially those who have harmed civilians, opposing troops, or troops on their own side) have extremely high rates of PTSD. 

Just because YOU do not feel it, does not mean that sane people do not. 

It is a FACT that guilt plagues many veterans . .   

https://jmvh.org/article/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-and-killing-in-combat-a-review-of-existing-literature/

Here is a novel idea . .  why don't you do a little reading before you spout off ?? 

Your article suggests that combat is not the sine qua non of PTSD.  At all. And certainly not causal of "extremely high rates of PTSD." Not so.

My guilt position is that it's learned not that it doesn't exist. Your arrogance seems to stop you from reading comprehensively.

Reading is good. Living even more authentic and educational. You're behind the group, AJ, not in front.

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32 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Hardly.

OK, it was hard to tell up thread, seemed you were minimizing it as a condition, that sufferers should just stop whining and get on with life.

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Anywho, he got off with a fine of $5000 and a letter of reprimand for the whole batch of charges. Judge reduced the amount asked by the prosecution a big chunk for time served in the brig. 

 https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-corps-lt-col-stuart-scheller-sentenced/

Interesting to me is the USMC passed the issue of his resignation up to the Sec of Navy. They could have just accepted it, so they didn't want to and they don't want to refuse it either. Just too hot a potato or are they looking for a way to save his pension from himself?  Hope it's the latter. 

With the Sec's blessing they could sit on it for a couple years, letting him sit at home or do whatever in the meantime. Simply not give him any orders for a couple years, except staying off social media.   

 

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

OK, it was hard to tell up thread, seemed you were minimizing it as a condition, that sufferers should just stop whining and get on with life.

Nah. Vet here. Always willing to call AJ on his silly cloistered view.

Interesting that so few are apparently combat-caused. 

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

Nah. Vet here. Always willing to call AJ on his silly cloistered view.

Interesting that so few are apparently combat-caused. 

Given the PTSD from first responders, nurses, etc, I'm not sure why you'd think it would have to be combat-caused?

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Betcha $100 bucks the VFP roster is full of failed fuckups.

Fortunately for us, you are not among that august group. 

We include a large number of great souls . .   https://www.veteransforpeace.org/who-we-are/vfp-advisory-board

You are not fit to shine their shoes 

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8 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm not sure why you'd think it would have to be combat-caused?

The crabster is just being stupid on purpose - that is his MO 

Nobody ever said that PTSD was only combat related. 

He might feel guilt about wasting our time if he were capable of that emotion . .  

. . . . which I and the Miracles will second  . .  

 

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Raz'r, please stop reading my posts. I guess you're in too big a hurry buzzing thru new posts ... but damn man... everything that has been said is upthread. Even then, as last week, I had to type the same point about voter registration three times before your light went on.

This time the point is about AJ's remarks re PTSD in vets in VFP. "It is a fact, whether either of us agrees with it or not, that post-combat troops (especially those who have harmed civilians, opposing troops, or troops on their own side) have extremely high rates of PTSD."

It's not a fact at all. Clove Hitch raised the other examples that Ollie would now like to hide behind because the article he posted doesn't actually support his position. 

Ollie is a missionary. And his mission is Right and True. At least he thinks so. He is a Christian soldier and proud of it. And after a lifetime in class as sage on a stage ... he's written his own reviews and believed them.

 

On 10/14/2021 at 2:59 PM, AJ Oliver said:

As I wrote above, lots of us in Vets For Peace are pretty tightly wound and/or wrestle with PTSD. 

In fact, a lot of us use our VFP activism as therapy - a way of partially dealing with our guilt.  

"... dealing with such issues as PTSD, moral injury, CTE and more. "

 

19 hours ago, Blue Crab said:
20 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

It has been shown that psychopaths, feeling no guilt, don't have much trouble with PTSD. 

Mentally healthy folks don't experience much trouble either.  It's all part of the Shit Happens philosophy. The cure is Get Over It or spend a lifetime whining about the unfairness of life and hoping for change while being oblivious to reality.

Do your own research but bottom line is:

Guilt is a learned behavior and as such, can be examined and discarded and particularly so in the wartime aftermath. In the moment, it's do or die. Later, you can think about it as Mark noted above. At that point, maybe the only remedy you see is suicide and many take that route, often greasing the skids with booze and drugs. That's the guilt and moral injury thing you were taught by yo momma and the religious. 

Pay close attention now ... main point to follow: It need not be this way. With so few troops actually in combat, I think it possible to pre-select out a high percentage of folks likely to have trouble dealing with the combat fall out. I suspect testing could easily identify the folks who will likely be more troubled by the guilt and morality phantoms. No problem. They are in to serve and 85 or 90% of military jobs are non-combative so serve they can. Moreover, Ollie's article suggests that many of these vets had PTSD before their military activity. 

Mentally healthy people have the inner resources to wrestle with and overcome thorny problems. 

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On 8/29/2021 at 12:14 PM, The Joker said:

 

Is he saying that in 17 years in the military, he never realized profit drives wars?  He never realized, in 17 years, politicians get huge campaign bribes, er, ah, donations from war, I mean, defense contractors?  And in all his life he never hears Ike's warning about the military industrial complex?

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

You've chosen to ignore content by AJ Oliver. Options

Fixes that problem immediately without wasting further bandwidth.

What did I write that was objectionable ?? 

I tried to stay on topic and mostly did so even after the abuse kicked in . . 

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13 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

You've chosen to ignore content by AJ Oliver. Options

Fixes that problem immediately without wasting further bandwidth.

I wish. I've tried several times. Last week I asked Zapata to fix the ignore for me but nothing so far. Guessing all the mods avoid PA.

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