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Why are people in the Fastnet race sailing with a dirty bottom?


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So I am eating my lunch today, watching a video from the Fastnet race this year, and the sight of one boat got me thinking...

What do you use to anti-foul your boat?

How often do you clean your bottom?

What type of sailing do you do, and how seriously?

How much difference does it actually make?

373463664_DirtyBottom.thumb.jpg.fe0b16ac8cbf0a71a681485d86363795.jpg

Bruh.

Video for reference.

 

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It's mid season, many of those boats will have been in the water since March.. Some will be hoping the water passing over the hull will wash off the growth off the antifouling..

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39 minutes ago, Matagi said:

'Espresso Martini Too' 

- DNF.

Need an "eyeroll" emoji for this comment. Lots of well prepped boats and good sailors DNF'ed this year, I suspect it was nothing to do with the hull finish and everything to do with the ugly conditions.

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8 hours ago, The Q said:

It's mid season, many of those boats will have been in the water since March.. Some will be hoping the water passing over the hull will wash off the growth off the antifouling..

People entering the Fastnet don't hire divers before the race?

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Just now, nogetwe said:

Some ports in Europe do not allow bottom cleaning for environmental reasons. Paint might get scrubbed off the boat. Hoists have a dedicated cleaning area with a special drain for pressure washing.

*in water bottom cleaning.

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4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I have told him repeatedly that I will only sail on weeks he had the bottom cleaned.

I'm glad I don't have a prima donna like you on my boat, unless you were being sarcastic which is possible I suppose. 

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13 hours ago, darth reapius said:

So I am eating my lunch today, watching a video from the Fastnet race this year, and the sight of one boat got me thinking...

What do you use to anti-foul your boat?

How often do you clean your bottom?

What type of sailing do you do, and how seriously?

How much difference does it actually make?

373463664_DirtyBottom.thumb.jpg.fe0b16ac8cbf0a71a681485d86363795.jpg

Bruh.

Video for reference.

 

The diver had Covid and was vaccinated

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nah my bottom sometimes looks dirty in the pics but it’s actually clean —and STAINED— from brown water.  

quick hit with zing or other evil stuff makes it pretty again once outta the water

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9 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Ugh. One missed shift? A good deal more than that in most any race.
Beer can series I sail in, owner thinks he only needs to have the bottom cleaned every other week. I have told him repeatedly that I will only sail on weeks he had the bottom cleaned.
But is the bottom cleaning the issue? Yes and no. If you are neglecting the bottom, you are neglecting a whole host of things that are all conspiring to stop you from winning.

maybe you should suit up and clean the bottom from time to time... or buy your own boat? 

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9 hours ago, quod umbra said:

 I have told him repeatedly that I will only sail on weeks he had the bottom cleaned.
 

Hopefully he can get by without a rock star like yourself on the off weeks. With your attitude and towering ego you would be about as welcome on my boat as a turd in the bilge.

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2 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Can anyone positively confirm that the picture shows a dirty bottom as opposed to a bottom that has been scrubbed and burnished so much that the bottom paint is wearing off?

Seems to me that there is a green scum line above the bottom paint line, and below the dark stripes on the hull of Aquapax.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

People entering the Fastnet don't hire divers before the race?

I've never actually heard of anyone using divers to clean the bottom in the UK but I'm no expert of Ocean going racing.. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just not common here.. Most people just launch for a season.

As Notgetwe says environmental concerns are making life difficult, they were for instance going to stop people self applying Anti foul, but that threat seems to have receded.. Antifoul of course is getting weaker, as they keep banning anything useful..

 I have seen people haul out  / crane out before a big race, which can be quite expensive. The absolute top racers yes they will getting bottoms cleaned etc.. But the majority know they have little chance of winning, they are out for the enjoyment of racing and quite often just to be able to say they have done the Fastnet race..

 

Me, myself I've long since stopped seagoing these days, preferring 1 hour races (4 or 5 per day) and prop up the T bar between, and it's a low fouling area, So there's  just one haul out mid season, just before regatta week done by myself..

 

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During my time in Sydney it was common for a single diver to clean most of the marina every week, but it's not like that back here, as far as I know commercial divers have to be a two up operation, and of course the water is colder, often more occluded, and tidal in the case of most of the marinas around the solent (the original boat in question lives in the water on the Hamble) plus a haul out for that size of boat is £400-500, so sometimes its just priorities if your goal is just to "do a fastnet". 

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In Brittany many boats will do it at least before big races, there are commercial divers but it is not uncommon for people to DIY it . I can't dive but I don't think that with the right kit (divesuit and a bottle) it is especially long or hard to do as long as you do it regularly.

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42 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

... And you all miss the point. Sailboat racing is sport, competition. Why would anyone not do what it takes to be competitive?

Because some of the things you can do to make your boat faster are expensive,  time-consuming and no fun; so maybe some folk prefer not to spend time on them and relax, comfortable in the knowledge that they could win if they wanted to.

42 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

All things being equal, how many boats that do not make sure their bottom is clean have even a remote shot at a podium position?

 Could be that they know they don't have a shot,  anyway- older sails,  weaker crew, less competitive handicap or older boat...Why bust your gut to be four [minutes|seconds|hours] back instead of six? Maybe the race is mainly a slot in the calendar to enjoy some structured sailing, get the crew together and have some fun?

Chill, dude.

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7 hours ago, The Q said:

I've never actually heard of anyone using divers to clean the bottom in the UK but I'm no expert of Ocean going racing.. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just not common here.. Most people just launch for a season.

Interesting. Here many racing boats are dived every week during the summer. Granted, the water is 80-90, which makes rapid growth unavoidable.

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We've been on a 3-week schedule with my diver all summer (first year running a "programme" if you could call it that), and by the time week 3 rolls around it's really noticeable. If he cleans on race-day, we do distinctly less shit.
New bottom paint went on this time last year, and the diver says in the 12 months, it's completely failed. Granted, we spent the winter in Florida - maybe my expectations of bottom paint are not calibrated to part-of-the-year in warmer waters..  So, what are people using  that works for 12 months 'round?
I'm not buying Black Widow - guess that means @quod umbrawon't be showing up :huh:

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19 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Since you have no idea how much I contribute to the program, in time, effort and monetarily, I'll let that slide.

And you all miss the point. Sailboat racing is sport, competition. Why would anyone not do what it takes to be competitive?
All things being equal, how many boats that do not make sure their bottom is clean have even a remote shot at a podium position?
 

Half time crew with an attitude?   I don’t need help like that at all.  I don’t care what you offer.  
I’d rather teach a novice that’s enthusiastic rather than entitled. 

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19 hours ago, quod umbra said:

And you all miss the point. Sailboat racing is sport, competition. Why would anyone not do what it takes to be competitive?
All things being equal, how many boats that do not make sure their bottom is clean have even a remote shot at a podium position?
 

Actually, no. For many if not most sailing in the Fastnet it is not sport or competition. It is adventure. I've done it several times, including organising crew so I have some clue what motivates them. 

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19 hours ago, quod umbra said:

All things being equal, how many boats that do not make sure their bottom is clean have even a remote shot at a podium position?

How many people have a remote shot at a podium position anyway? If we mock everyone who doesn't have a shot at a podium position we damn soon won't have many competitors or a sport at all and serve us right.

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1 hour ago, JimC said:

How many people have a remote shot at a podium position anyway? If we mock everyone who doesn't have a shot at a podium position we damn soon won't have many competitors or a sport at all and serve us right.

There's a paragraph at the end of one of Lawrie Smith's books in which he says most sailors at a championship are there for a good sail, a good time and possibly a few beers. adding that without such people there would be no championships. "Never forget this" he says. 

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25 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

There's a paragraph at the end of one of Lawrie Smith's books in which he says most sailors at a championship are there for a good sail, a good time and possibly a few beers. adding that without such people there would be no championships. "Never forget this" he says. 

^^^^this

It's about the taking part, not the winning.

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On 9/1/2021 at 8:00 AM, The Q said:

I've never actually heard of anyone using divers to clean the bottom in the UK but I'm no expert of Ocean going racing.. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just not common here.. Most people just launch for a season.

Most serious Solent boats are dry sailed. 

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36 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

I am sure the UK has divers who clean bottoms. 

Yes but it's not that common. Dry sailing means the boat is kept ashore and craned in by the yard for each race or regatta, either by the crew for small boats with a single lift point or by the yard. But I dare say you know that.  As PE says, race boats in the Solent tend to be dry sailed. Plug in some numbers into quotations from https://hysgroup.co.uk/ and you'd see the cost of pontoon berths and dry sailing are much the same. For race boats, the number of lifts you get in a dry sailing package tend to cover the number of regattas per year most would do. I have no idea if that's the situation elsewhere in the world but it is in the Solent.

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Leave your boat un-rubbed in Sydney Harbour for a month and the growth will be do obvious you would be ashamed to be seen.

Many years ago (so long we were racing IMS), I was racing at top level on a 42 footer,  cleaned up pretty well everything season 1 & 2,  season 3 it was a bit harder and we were constantly down around .1 to .2 of a knot,  spent a year trying all sorts of fixes but just couldn't find our speed.  Year 4 noticed in first few races numbers miraculously back.  After some head scratching owner remembers that antifoul was rolled not sprayed in year 3.  Can't prove it was the reason,  but also can't find any other difference.

Sadly by year 4 the IMS game had moved on & we weren't nearly as competitive with the newer boats even with our old numbers back!

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5 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Leave your boat un-rubbed in Sydney Harbour for a month and the growth will be do obvious you would be ashamed to be seen.

Many years ago (so long we were racing IMS), I was racing at top level on a 42 footer,  cleaned up pretty well everything season 1 & 2,  season 3 it was a bit harder and we were constantly down around .1 to .2 of a knot,  spent a year trying all sorts of fixes but just couldn't find our speed.  Year 4 noticed in first few races numbers miraculously back.  After some head scratching owner remembers that antifoul was rolled not sprayed in year 3.  Can't prove it was the reason,  but also can't find any other difference.

Sadly by year 4 the IMS game had moved on & we weren't nearly as competitive with the newer boats even with our old numbers back!

0.2 of a knot sounds like an under-statement. My old man thought they lost more than that when they rolled one of their boats a couple decades ago, after only a handful of races not being able to reach target speeds they pulled the boat back out, sanded it down smooth and sprayed it... straight back to target speeds. Roll finish is slow.

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16 hours ago, dogwatch said:

. Plug in some numbers into quotations from https://hysgroup.co.uk/ and you'd see the cost of pontoon berths and dry sailing are much the same. For race boats, the number of lifts you get in a dry sailing package tend to cover the number of regattas per year most would do. I have no idea if that's the situation elsewhere in the world but it is in the Solent.

Ouch, over 10 times the cost of mooring in my area.. 3 commercial lifts in and out would cover the total cost of my sailing for  a year. Luckily for my current little boat the sailing club has it's own crane.. Cost £50 a year, as many times as you wish to use it, but it will only lift 750Kg..

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The dry sail for my mini from HYS is a similar cost as a marina berth for a J109 down south, but I don't know what a marina berth costs up in the Hamble other than "lots" :lol: but its not that much more than CYCA prices where for self lift for a sportboat (although of course RANSA costs where half that).

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13 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

The dry sail for my mini from HYS is a similar cost as a marina berth for a J109 down south, but I don't know what a marina berth costs up in the Hamble other than "lots" :lol: but its not that much more than CYCA prices where for self lift for a sportboat (although of course RANSA costs where half that).

The link I gave has marina (pontoon) costs at HYS. If you are willing to chug another mile upriver, Universal is significantly cheaper, if you want to be right at the river entrance, Hamble Point is handy at even more eye-watering prices. Moorings on the trots cost a lot less but there is a waiting list, albeit shorter than it used to be.   

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13 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

The link I gave has marina (pontoon) costs at HYS. If you are willing to chug another mile upriver, Universal is significantly cheaper, if you want to be right at the river entrance, Hamble Point is handy at even more eye-watering prices. Moorings on the trots cost a lot less but there is a waiting list, albeit shorter than it used to be.   

Well HYS has roughly similar prices for dry sail vs berth which isn't surprising given that they want the pontoon space for dry sailed boats, what I meant was you can't get MDL marina prices easily, and I know what the marina cost is for the 109 currently (not on the Solent). In the spirit of actually doing some research now that Premier own Universal, I did there online calculator for Swannick and Universal and it comes out about a grand more than dry sailing, wow.

 

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I did have prices for Hamble Point (MDL) some years ago and they made HYS look cheap. I also know something about the prices at Sparkes (MDL, entrance to Chichester Harbour) and they are pretty eye-watering. Not going to give figures here as I'm not up to date. I've gone back to dinghies myself!

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6 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I did have prices for Hamble Point (MDL) some years ago and they made HYS look cheap. I also know something about the prices at Sparkes (MDL, entrance to Chichester Harbour) and they are pretty eye-watering. Not going to give figures here as I'm not up to date. I've gone back to dinghies myself!

MDL were famous for their extortionate prices.. 

Going back to Dinghies or in my case a Mini 16ft Keelboat makes sailing much more economically acceptable, and I find just as much fun..

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I remember watching some twat tow his Mumm 30 into the wrong end of the travel hoist behind his Range Rover. Pretty much sums up HYS. They was an almighty crash as the boat jumped in its trailer and came back down with the forestay pinned against the mast by the cross beam of the hoist.

It's very important to have considerably more money than sense on that part of the Solent.

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5 hours ago, darth reapius said:

0.2 of a knot sounds like an under-statement. My old man thought they lost more than that when they rolled one of their boats a couple decades ago, after only a handful of races not being able to reach target speeds they pulled the boat back out, sanded it down smooth and sprayed it... straight back to target speeds. Roll finish is slow.

I have wondered if this is part of our problem this year as I rolled the bottom with my GF and it is pretty textured since the VC17 dries almost instantly and going over it again with the roller pulls it up and makes it pebbly. What are you Guys using to spray the paint? My boat winters outside in a compound and I would have to bring my generator down for power and I don't have a compressor I can bring, are there suitable systems that don't need a big compressor? 

In addition, what is the desired finish? I am used to finishing wood where sanding prime coats smooth and then top coats over looking for a flat smooth texture like a table top is the aim. Similar? 

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

I did have prices for Hamble Point (MDL) some years ago and they made HYS look cheap. I also know something about the prices at Sparkes (MDL, entrance to Chichester Harbour) and they are pretty eye-watering. Not going to give figures here as I'm not up to date. I've gone back to dinghies myself!

The dry sail facility at Hamble Point costs almost exactly the same as dry sailing out of HYS (I cross-shopped them a year or so ago) but the MDL service quality is pretty "special". For a while they refused to move boats from pontoon berths to the lift dock because they were worried they wouldn't be able to ensure social distancing... outdoors... on a 10 metre long boat...

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1 hour ago, Snowden said:

The dry sail facility at Hamble Point costs almost exactly the same as dry sailing out of HYS (I cross-shopped them a year or so ago) but the MDL service quality is pretty "special". For a while they refused to move boats from pontoon berths to the lift dock because they were worried they wouldn't be able to ensure social distancing... outdoors... on a 10 metre long boat...

For the mini it was about a grand more for 5 less lifts a year at HP MDL vs HYS

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12 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Oh I get the "personal Everest" aspect of many larger events. Everyone has to start some place, for sure.
And I get that a lot of folks are out there for shits and giggles, which is fine.
IMHO a skipper, or crew, that does not seek to try and win, or more aptly stand a chance to podium, often end up with crew issues. The better crew in your stable move on and you are left with a lesser talented crew. At the end of the day those are the exact boats that stop racing. Which is sad really.

Who was it who first said, 'preparation is 90% of winning'?

IMHO, you really need to revisit the "H" in IMHO.

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27 minutes ago, AnIdiot said:

IMHO, you really need to revisit the "H" in IMHO.

99% of the people I sail with and against are out there to have a good time which interestingly involves getting better out on the course, learning more about every detail and fulfilling a role that addresses those details for success.  Not addressing the bottom is just dumb and counterproductive to having fun!!  Dragging barnacles around in the spectator fleet can be fun too, but that's a different kind of fun :-)  ( I think) 

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52 minutes ago, Snowden said:

Ouch. Can you keep the mini at RSrn? That can be cheap for smaller boats if you don't mind operating the crane yourself.

If I was a member with the fees included it would be just about cheaper but I'm not sure how happy they would be about it and on the trailer its not too "hand manoeuvrable" so I opted for the convenience of a travel lift :lol::lol:

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So lots of people in this thread are saying something to the effect of "Most people race the Fastnet for fun and the experience and having the bottom done is just too big an expense to justify."   OK, then why do these boats have expensive carbon sails?  Just in the still photo of those YouTube videos I see many multi thousand dollar sails, including the one with the scuzzy bottom.

 

Any sailmaker worth a salt will tell you if you can only have two things for your racing sailboat they'd be:


1) Good sails (big surprise, but true) on a properly tuned rig

2) Fair and clean bottom/foils

 

There are many here in the States too that really don't take the latter recommendation either. I just find it amusing that owners fork over stacks of cash for sails and don't do shit for their bottom.

 

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People up the thread saying UK sailors don’t scrub their boats. Eh what? Growth is rampant in most of the brackish rivers people keep their boats in on the East and South coast. Everyone remotely serious about racing either dry sails or scrubs regularly. There are hoists, scrubbing grids and scrubbing trolleys all over the place. Even when just club racing I scrubbed every 3 weeks and again just before any more major event. There is one boat in the video with a dirty bottom. One thing we don’t get much is divers cleaning the bottom. No idea why that is but probably because you can see fuck all through most of the water.

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Back in 2009 the regs on diving changed meaning you had to have around 3-4 people or something like that. Basically a dive used to cost just over £100 for a 30 footer and then it doubled or more. Now you’re looking at hundreds to get a boat dived. There are 2 or 3 common diving companies around. In Portsmouth there is a lifting dock to get a boat cleaned. Prices for lifting at yards can vary quite a bit, for example Cowes yacht haven can charge less than half of what HYS charge.

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14 hours ago, glexpress said:

So lots of people in this thread are saying something to the effect of "Most people race the Fastnet for fun and the experience and having the bottom done is just too big an expense to justify."   OK, then why do these boats have expensive carbon sails?  Just in the still photo of those YouTube videos I see many multi thousand dollar sails, including the one with the scuzzy bottom.

 

Any sailmaker worth a salt will tell you if you can only have two things for your racing sailboat they'd be:


1) Good sails (big surprise, but true) on a properly tuned rig

2) Fair and clean bottom/foils

 

There are many here in the States too that really don't take the latter recommendation either. I just find it amusing that owners fork over stacks of cash for sails and don't do shit for their bottom.

 

When they sit at the helm they can see the sails,  the bottom,  not so well!

And a lot of them can convince themselves that that is what everyone else sees too.

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58 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Well Tubby, a lot of people have boats for the optics, not for the experience.
I always find it curious when folks complain about why they are not competitive.
"It's my rating"
"My sails are wrong, need to find a new sailmaker"
(this one is prolific. far easier to gripe about the sailmaker then look into the mirror I guess)
"I can't afford a good (or clean) bottom"

It just makes me laugh really.
Yet I get shit from some esteemed posters because I suggest you should try and run a winning program.
Go figure.

That’s not why you are getting shit.

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17 hours ago, mrming said:

People up the thread saying UK sailors don’t scrub their boats. Eh what? Growth is rampant in most of the brackish rivers people keep their boats in on the East and South coast. Everyone remotely serious about racing either dry sails or scrubs regularly. There are hoists, scrubbing grids and scrubbing trolleys all over the place. Even when just club racing I scrubbed every 3 weeks and again just before any more major event. There is one boat in the video with a dirty bottom. One thing we don’t get much is divers cleaning the bottom. No idea why that is but probably because you can see fuck all through most of the water.

On the boats I used to race in the Solent we scrubbed before events (and during if a week regatta) or hauled out before major events (or a diver from memory). 2nd boat was dry-sailed plus all of the above when required.

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21 hours ago, glexpress said:

So lots of people in this thread are saying something to the effect of "Most people race the Fastnet for fun and the experience and having the bottom done is just too big an expense to justify."   

Don't think anyone has said that. Some have taken issue with the idea that everyone is sailing for a podium place. Not the same thing.

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I would agree, I'm quite surprised that anyone who goes to the trouble of doing a Fastnet doesn't get the bottom scrubbed.

I don't know the boat, but my thought is that it may be corporate. Load up the paying punters. The crew don't look to be putting a lot of effort in, not a lot of hiking going on. Perhaps they've just tacked, can't be arsed to watch the video to see.

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On 9/3/2021 at 7:30 AM, darth reapius said:

0.2 of a knot sounds like an under-statement. My old man thought they lost more than that when they rolled one of their boats a couple decades ago, after only a handful of races not being able to reach target speeds they pulled the boat back out, sanded it down smooth and sprayed it... straight back to target speeds. Roll finish is slow.

Depends on how bad the fouling is of course, but I would agree, understatement. 
 

I didn't lift out last winter, not normally a problem as I'm in a drying mudberth so weed never really gets a chance to start. Normally before a regatta we'd use one of those bottom brushes just to get any surface layer of mud off the bottom. 
This year however on a small cruise I had to leave the boat on a swinging mooring at Felixstowe ferry for a couple of weeks whilst I went back to work, got back after two weeks & the foils were badly fouled (surprisingly the hull seemed OK other than the waterline). Boat speed was down by around a knot and the rudder had lost a lot of its feel.
It would have completely stuffed us if we were racing. 

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On 9/2/2021 at 1:39 AM, slug zitski said:

All regattas contain a mixed fleet 

pro prepared speedsters and wannabes 

 

Or to put it another way, rich wankers who cant sail buying trophies for themselves and people who just enjoy sailing.

What would be even more surprising is if even the rich wankers would pay to have a dickhead like you onboard.

 

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10 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Well Tubby, a lot of people have boats for the optics, not for the experience.
I always find it curious when folks complain about why they are not competitive.
"It's my rating"
"My sails are wrong, need to find a new sailmaker"
(this one is prolific. far easier to gripe about the sailmaker then look into the mirror I guess)
"I can't afford a good (or clean) bottom"

It just makes me laugh really.
Yet I get shit from some esteemed posters because I suggest you should try and run a winning program.
Go figure.

No you get shit for posting like entitled, self appointed wannabe pro. 

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6 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I would agree, I'm quite surprised that anyone who goes to the trouble of doing a Fastnet doesn't get the bottom scrubbed.

I don't know the boat, but my thought is that it may be corporate. Load up the paying punters. The crew don't look to be putting a lot of effort in, not a lot of hiking going on. Perhaps they've just tacked, can't be arsed to watch the video to see.

Managing the expectations of paying punters on an offshore race is far more difficult than getting on the podium of a major yacht race.

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44 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Managing the expectations of paying punters on an offshore race is far more difficult than getting on the podium of a major yacht race.

And if you podium with punters, well you must have a clean bum

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Clean bottom makes a massive difference. Boats are being dived, hoisted out for a jetwash or on drying piles all week before the Fastnet. I used to have my boat scrubbed before every offshore race and/or typically once a month. A lot of the better boats are dry sailed, its generally cheaper to dry sail than keep on a marina berth and pay for regular scrubs. If you have time you can dry out your own boat on scrubbing piles for £30. Friends of mine used to do that before every race.

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On 9/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, Scrambler said:

Half time crew with an attitude?   I don’t need help like that at all.  I don’t care what you offer.  
I’d rather teach a novice that’s enthusiastic rather than entitled. 

+1000

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1 hour ago, quod umbra said:

Oh okay. Thanks for the clarity.
All as I said was a boat I sail on doesn't clean the bottom weekly, it costs $80 for a 30 footer. In the area we sail everyone pretty much cleans weekly, water is in the low 70's temp wise and growth is pretty fast. Slime in days and grass starts in a week or so. My comment was sincere, I told one of the two owners that they should be cleaning it weekly, and since you can feel/see the difference week in and week out, to let me know when the bottom has been cleaned and I'll race.... because when it hasn't been cleaned, it isn't racing.
The boat, a fairly popular one design, gets new sails every other season pretty much and swaps out between the three year old set and the new set depending on venue (a whole other subject). As a favor to the owners, one I have know since he was in a pram (stroller) and the other I have known and sailed with for a little over a decade, I completely re-rigged the boat, on my own dime, asking only for reimbursement for parts..... which I financed for more than a fookin' year. There is a story about how they came to own the boat, but all the running rigging had been neglected and was failing. I put in hundreds of hours renovating the boat and getting her back to top spec.
As for wannabe pro. I have been a long time industry person and ran my own rigging and electronics company for many years. Also work for a decade in membrane manufacturing..... in any event I have done similar refits and best guestimate is I put in 10k or more in labor on the boat to get her going. That is the score champ, and all I have asked of the owners is a clean fookin' bottom and a cold beer if I come into the clubhouse after sailing.
In closing you can all lick my balls.
Enjoy the day folks!
(typed with a huge smile and chuckle)

I will only lick your balls on the weeks when they are clean. Sorry, I have standards....

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On 9/1/2021 at 5:50 AM, quod umbra said:

Since you have no idea how much I contribute to the program, in time, effort and monetarily, I'll let that slide.

And you all miss the point. Sailboat racing is sport, competition. Why would anyone not do what it takes to be competitive?
All things being equal, how many boats that do not make sure their bottom is clean have even a remote shot at a podium position?
 

You said it was a beercan series. I think that is a big part of the reaction you are getting. You seem to be bringing a professional sailing ethos to a friendly run-what-you-brung Wednesday night race.

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20 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Managing the expectations of paying punters on an offshore race is far more difficult than getting on the podium of a major yacht race.

IME, many of the pros who are into the charter business are not specially good racers and relatively easy targets for an amateur crew, those who are in the business of racing for a sponsor are extremely good and uncatchable for most amateurs!

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5 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

Fair enough I guess. It is a fairly competitive bunch in any event and we tend to use the series as a means of training, practice and experimenting with rig tune and sail trim. Our start is two different one designs combined and it gets interesting at times because pretty much everyone is out there with winning in mind..... or at least improvement in mind. Not uncommon to see dial-ups and boats locked out, some protests on occasion (which sometimes get followed up, sometimes not). Some of the other divisions are also competitive, and some are not. Ya pick your poison. 
It is a Thursday series and a healthy portion of these boats race every weekend, cleaning the bottom is S.O.P.

But back to the original topic, I just couldn't imagine doing a distance race or offshore without proper prep. That was the nature of the original comment.
Enjoy all,and LB, stop trying to pull the condom over your head and face will you? We get that you might be confused as to what they are for......

Unless you’re running an epoxy bottom, weekly cleanings are a little excessive for the typical club program. I only plan to scrub my boat every few weeks or before big races, and I say that as the local bottom cleaner. That’s in freshwater with VC-17 though. 

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