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Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.   IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards. The Wester

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

I have it on good authority (I read it on SA) 1) it's definitely Cork  2) It's definitely Jeddah  3) it's definitely not Valencia  4) though it could be Spain  5) Aukland is a

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15 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Oh, and no World Series, of course

 

Since the asking price to venues is so dang high this time (to include a bunch of GD’s fundraising) then there’s a good chance the Protocol will reflect a venue bid contract’s requirement that Challengers will be forced to live, practice and race only in that venue for 3 years. So…. Yes, agreed. It would also free up precious-few sailable boats. 

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21 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

 there’s a good chance the Protocol will reflect a venue bid contract’s requirement that Challengers will be forced to live, practice and race only in that venue for 3 years. 

In Jeddah ? :lol::lol:

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6 minutes ago, Xlot said:

In Jeddah ? :lol::lol:

Ha! Yes, maybe not for in that venue :D


from Magnus at https://rule69.blog/2021/09/06/entente-cordiale/

Auckland gets my vote in a free and fair contest. Jeddah would move the dial and rock the world. Cork would be a lot of fun and Guinness is good for you. Valencia would be great sailing.

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21 minutes ago, Frank White said:

My guess is they push the decision out to a future date. None of the current options that we know about are ideal for TNZ. I wouldn’t think it’s hurts their credibility to say we need a little more time and are still evaluating options. 

Agree, good chance since they don’t seem to have any good options solidified. Hard sell, at the asking price. The ‘Origin Sports Group’ may not have come through despite 10 months of effort. 

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The only real news besides from out of Auckland has been from Cork, and a few (unattributed) comments from Cork have led to the speculation that Valencia and Jeddah are supposedly what they are being told is their ‘competition’ and on some ‘short list.’ 
 

IF there is a wildcard possibility then my hope is that it is Cagliari. It was to be the first ACWS venue last time around and I bet PB could make that happen, with ease. Seems possible as their best or only option outside Auckland.

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Realistically, the only place that can front the type of money TNZ is looking looking for is one of the Middle Eastern oil states.

I guess we’ll find out if it is really all about the money, or if there are other considerations in play. I’m hoping it is about more than just the money.

For the sake of the people of NZ, who have supported TNZ for so long, I hope it ends up in Auckland.

But I’m not optimistic.

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17 minutes ago, accnick said:

Realistically, the only place that can front the type of money TNZ is looking looking for is one of the Middle Eastern oil states.

I guess we’ll find out if it is really all about the money, or if there are other considerations in play. I’m hoping it is about more than just the money.

For the sake of the people of NZ, who have supported TNZ for so long, I hope it ends up in Auckland.

But I’m not optimistic.

Magnus W at R69 thinks the same, that it is likely going to Jeddah.

MW was among those watching Friday's Sailing Illustrated when TE mentioned a 'One Hears' rumor that Jeddah has offered 200M (said he was not sure what currency), 100M for running the event and 100M directly to GD. My guess is that the rumor was from MW. I remain skeptical that anyone cares that much to host the event, guess we'll see.. 

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What I hope: Cork.

What I expect: a delay of a month and then, an announcement that a deal has been stitched up for AKL.

If there actually is an announcement to schedule: Jeddah. Nowhere else can click their fingers and make a deal.

 

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Anywhere but Jeddah

racing at night will be tricky… 
 

relocating teams for any kind of duration will be brutal too, if you thought staff turn over in the last cycle was high this will be off the scale. 
 

or teams will stay out at home and drop in at last minute giving precious little ROI for the cash cows/Grants new chums 

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ASO moved the Dakar rally to Saudi* for 5 years (and have done 2). The actual figures don't seem to be public, but I'm sure it was a lot of money. It makes sense for saudi, the locals love driving their cars in the sand and they have a metric shitload of it to use without going over the same tracks in 5 years. This is however a drop in event with a race village that moves.

Would it translate to sailing? I doubt it, no booze, no drugs, no bacon, no sex, no tattoos? doesn't sound like much fun.

image.png.4207894ef9d71349d241570a95a35f2b.png

If GD takes it here it just for the $$$ it would be the ultimate commercial transaction with no real appreciation of sailing culture. I'd rather they lose it in a nicer place

There is also the deed of gift issue with having to sail in the northern hemisphere summer, not sure if that is easy to move. FIFA bent over backwards for Qatar 22 football world cup, which is the biggest joke of sporting corruption we'll ever see.

 

*i have worked on projects in saudi arabia, but never made it to jeddah ~15 years ago

 

 

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1 hour ago, shebeen said:

 no booze, no drugs, no bacon, no sex, no tattoos? doesn't sound like much fun.

*i have worked on projects in saudi arabia, but never made it to jeddah ~15 years ago

If you've worked there, you will know that for expats, with a modicum of discretion, booze is obtainable and the locals aren't necessarily immune to the attractions of weed. "One hears" that sexual adventures between expats aren't entirely unknown either. As far as Saudis are concerned with what happens in expat compounds, don't ask, don't tell.

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Who really cares where it is? Fake people on here claim to care about Kiwi tax payers, but in reality, they don't give a shit.

Its the Americas Cup. Kiwi's will support Team NZ like they support the AB's playing in the US, France, Australia or where ever Kiwi teams compete. Its just what we do.

Some fake Kiwis on here will bitch about how much of an asshole they think Dalton is, but they're the minority.

Kiwi's love winners. When you win the ones that count, thats all that matters.
 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Kiwi's love winners. When you win the ones that count, thats all that matters.

 

So you don't care about good competition, human rights, the lives of the sailors, corruption or the enjoyment of fans who want to go and watch. Just winning.

What a sad and narrow outlook you have on life

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

 "One hears" that sexual adventures between expats aren't entirely unknown either.

Hmm ... definitely not Dubai. Recent “progress” is

Women aged 25 and above who wish to travel to Saudi Arabia alone can be granted a single-entry tourist visa, valid for up to 30 days. However, a family member must accompany women below the stipulated age. Foreign women are no longer expected to don the 'abaya', which was previously a mandatory requirement

In my time (did a lot of work on the then new Jeddah airport) only married women could get a visa - and some enterprising workers married european prostitutes, brought them in and shared the proceeds

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Apart from the Dunphy thing, is it fair to say there has been no hint of NZ offering a better deal? Indeed if anything the NZ govt seems to have hardened it's position and would require even that to be renegotiated?

 

So if the offshoring was a negotiation tactic to try and get a better deal it has failed? 

That is my perception, albeit with low certainty

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

If you've worked there, you will know that for expats, with a modicum of discretion, booze is obtainable 

250$ for a whiskey bottle back in my days in Yanbu...  My compund neighbor would make alcohol from sugar and then mix it with non-alcoholic beer...

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Some quite drinkable home-brew was available from a bar on the roof of a compound building. This in Riyadh. A fucking open-air bar  packed out with convivial westerners.  Don't ask, don't tell. 

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My bet is AKL in 2023, not 2024.

Giving less time to the challengers (especially a wealthy new challenger from Switzerland) is good for ETNZ. 

GD still in charge, but someone else in charge of the event (not Tina S.).

Timeframe for developing / building / shipping a new AC75 to NZ would be very limited, and that will be ETNZ card to retain their technological advantage. Since they have less money, they'll give less time to the wealthier Challengers. 

Last thing, I think ETNZ will have a new boat, they'll sell Te Rehutai to some rich challenger from one of the emerging countries. 

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If you've taken money from Emirates for donkey's years, I'm not sure why your moral compass would point away from Jeddah. UAE and Saudi aren't the same but they aren't as different as all that. IMO the prize for filthiest lucre in recent AC history was Gunvor (Artemis) but few here seemed to care.

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^ Great news, has Ireland every had an America's Cup entry...... Go Team Ireland!

 

If Dalt's is, as the team says, the master of money raising with a total haul of $500M during his tenure, what's up this time around?

Take $100M from NZ then go do what Dalton supposedly does so well, raise the other mere $100+M and sail at home...

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51 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

hope this doesn't piss on anyone's chips but a customer of mine in Cork is hearing its a done deal, it could be crossed wires with them being an option to host but he seemed pretty certain.

 

Well at least I could easily go if true. Did go to Valencia for a couple of days of LV cup for a stag do. Messy.

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54 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

hope this doesn't piss on anyone's chips but a customer of mine in Cork is hearing its a done deal, it could be crossed wires with them being an option to host but he seemed pretty certain.

 

Hope you're right, but I'm unconvinced

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EVERYONE, read this:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241421/Gladwells-Line-Time-against-11th-hour-Kiwi-bid

Dunphy is just playing "GAMES" here. I clashed with Gladwell on other things during the AC36 Cycle but he is spot on. Cork, Valencia, Jeddah, the initial 35 Cities summitted Hosting Bids at the end of February. They have done their Homework for 6 months to host the Event. A hasitly Event in Auckland pulled together in 10 Days doesn't do anyone any good.

Therefore my Prediction: It won't be Auckland.

Jeddah seems most likely followed by Valencia and Cork!

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

So you don't care about good competition, human rights, the lives of the sailors, corruption or the enjoyment of fans who want to go and watch. Just winning.

What a sad and narrow outlook you have on life

Frankly, No. I want Team NZ to whitewash the opposition, just like 95 and 2000.

 Its not Daltons job to ensure the races are close, its the Challengers job.

Its Daltons job to WIN. The bigger the margin, the better.

Human rights? Every country lives the way they want to. And they have that right. Afghans had 20 years of American occupation to leave, but they didn't because they thought their President and Military would fight for their country, but they didn't. They threw down their guns, turned tail and ran like the cowards they are, and now their President is sipping wine in the UAE while his people are suffering.

As we saw and continue to see in Afghanistan, they live by different cultural values to the westernized world. They live by Sharia law, Islamic doctrine, a religion the western world refuses to understand and continues to interpret as "Terrorist". Why is it that western countries think they can make every country live the way they do? Middle Eastern countries have lived the way they do and have for CENTURIES. Then the Americans invade and say "No, you must live like us" violating the most basic of human rights, to live the way they want to. 

By the way, look at the US, they'd rather their right to bare arms, and have guns than implement gun control laws to ensure everyone has the most basic human right TO LIVE. 

As for the lives of sailors being in danger, ya drama queen. This isn't the first sailboat race held in the Emirates, and it won't be the last. No one got killed, and no one's going to get killed. The last thing the Sheiks want is an international incident on home soil.

Remember the LV Trophy?, thats right. Dubai, there was Kiwi teams, Russian teams, American teams, Italian teams, French teams, etc so GTFOH with your NZ is endangering lives by potentially going to Jeddah BS.

Last time I checked, the Saudi's were allies of the US, not enemies. 

The US is far more dangerous than Saudi Arabia.

This is the Americas Cup, not the fucking United Nations.

Get over it.

 

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Apart from the Dunphy thing, is it fair to say there has been no hint of NZ offering a better deal? Indeed if anything the NZ govt seems to have hardened it's position and would require even that to be renegotiated?

 

So if the offshoring was a negotiation tactic to try and get a better deal it has failed? 

That is my perception, albeit with low certainty

The Government said the offer was final a long time ago.

Nothing to see here.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The usual collection of empty words, half truths and outright lies: for instance, with the possible exception of Jeddah no venue has made a formal, government authorized financial commitment.

But I do agree on this: “the America's Cup defenders risk being left financially legless and trying to both run a regatta, as well as trying to defend the America's Cup against several super teams in the Challenger group - as happened in the Kiwi's disastrous 2003 America's Cup defence”

 

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23 minutes ago, Xlot said:

The usual collection of empty words, half truths and outright lies: for instance, with the possible exception of Jeddah no venue has made a formal, government authorized financial commitment.

But I do agree on this: “the America's Cup defenders risk being left financially legless and trying to both run a regatta, as well as trying to defend the America's Cup against several super teams in the Challenger group - as happened in the Kiwi's disastrous 2003 America's Cup defence”

 

No mate,

THIS IS THE KEY PHRASE HERE:

There is a substantial risk for Team New Zealand in accepting, at the end of next week, a less than comprehensive and binding proposal from within New Zealand. Even the acceptance of a late bid from the incumbent venue would likely be viewed with askance by the other venues, who have spent months on their proposals.

The Key sentence I put in Bold. I agree with Gladwell. It would be unfair to accept a NZ offer at the last second compared to the other Cities who spent six months trying to secure it!

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The only thing disastrous about 2003 was the fact that their team was bought out from under them. At least by doing things on their own terms, they keep the core of the team together, something they could not do in 2003.

My absolute preference is Auckland (or somewhere else in NZ) but I also know under the current Government and Covid strategy, that is probably not possible.

Second, Cork. Simply because its never been there before and I'd like to see a defence held somewhere its never been held.

Third, Valencia because the Infrastructure exists already, but who knows what that offer will be. If they're still paying off the bills of 2007 it seems highly unlikely that will eventuate.

I don't think there is a middle Eastern Venue. Not a serious one. I think the Emirates are prepared to provide a fallback if all else fails, but I think thats about it. 

My bet is Cork. They seem to be the one place that wants it the most.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Karma says Cork and the YC represented by Ainslie et al wins. 

So are the Leprechauns seriously going to gift Lord Dalton sufficient funds to mount a competitive AC campaign add to that the organizing fee and shoulder the costs of all the required infrastructure.

Crikey if that is the reality what's actually of any benefit in it for the Leprechauns.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

So are the Leprechauns seriously going to gift Lord Dalton sufficient funds to mount a competitive AC campaign add to that the organizing fee and shoulder the costs of all the required infrastructure.

No. Scenario karma is NZ says no govt funding we need it for more pressing social needs, he scrapes up,what he can for a simple Cork Cup, just CSS and AC, but the NZ boat isn't the fastest boat as it turns out and Sir Ben drinks from the chalice.

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16 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

No. Scenario karma is NZ says no govt funding we need it for more pressing social needs, he scrapes up,what he can for a simple Cork Cup, just CSS and AC, but the NZ boat isn't the fastest boat as it turns out and Sir Ben drinks from the chalice.

Dreams are free, based on many past examples TNZ runs the leanest financial ship around Te Rehutai was waves ahead of the opposition and the Royal barge was a dog.

Basher Bens big budget efforts and subsequent embarrassing failure on the sparkling Waitemata further reinforces the strengths TNZ has in spades.

My pick is the Frackers will fall short again in Cork anywhere actually especially so if Ernie rocks up to play.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting, at around 01:20

"Unfortunately for Team New Zealand, in early July came Mike Dunphy, independently wealthy in his own rights, owns Greymouth Petroleum, one of the few still independently-owned gasoline and petroleum explorers and producers in New Zealand, with a bid that he has not shown the detail of but is entirely convinced or relatively convinced, on the prospect of having the $80M that is required from private New Zealanders to run the Cup. And this has sparked the most incandescent response from Team New Zealand... a level of incandescence that makes me think they really don't want to hold the Cup here because they have a better offer from somewhere else. The problem they have got is that if there were a credible bid from New Zealand it will probably revive the govt's willingness to fund. It would put a lot of pressure on the Team to explain why it wasn't prepared to continue to run the Cup in New Zealand given how many hundreds of millions of dollars of private and government money has gone into NZ defenses over the years, and therefore, ummmm, it becomes sort of a tug between, and the way it will be portrayed, is between Greed and Going offshore, and versus a patriotic defense being funded by the locals."

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Hey, it's a bet.  Maybe I hit PowerBall maybe not. 

Hah Clew, going to be a fascinating announcement which ever way it goes my old bones are telling me it's the Waitemata but nothing about the machinations surrounding the hunt for the Poisoned Chalice surprise me any longer.

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I like Gladwell in general, but he might as well give Dalts a byline on his column ever since the Dunphy thing broke.

 

The reference to 2003 is clearly an attempt to frighten people and justify moving the event. TNZ did not fail in 2003 due to a lack of money. Dalts himself knows that as he was in charge of the 2003 review and lack of funding was not even listed as a major factor.

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13 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

I like Gladwell in general, but he might as well give Dalts a byline on his column ever since the Dunphy thing broke.

 

The reference to 2003 is clearly an attempt to frighten people and justify moving the event. TNZ did not fail in 2003 due to a lack of money. Dalts himself knows that as he was in charge of the 2003 review and lack of funding was not even listed as a major factor.

RG has a good enough heart but very clearly tow's GD's line. RG refuses to even admit in his past two articles that the not-dropping of GD (from as CEO of ETNZ or whatever) has already been agreed to. For $80M!

Just the slightest suggestion that GD should not be CEO of both the ACE and the Team Challenge seems to, like with the incandescent reaction from who-the-heck-ever at TNZ, set RG off into another tailspin. 2003 was a disaster for them but Ernesto tried for a time to fund TNZ and ran into some kind of intra-fratricidal bloodbath and so after a meeting in NY with RC and BB agreed to do things, umm, differently.

 

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My preference: Auckland, Valencia, Cork

Who will it actually be? Well, whoever has the money.

If Valencia can tap into the billions of Euros been dolled out in Europe for events to stimulate the economy then they have a good chance. Infrastructure in place and a good place to press the flesh and sell NZ to the world.

Jeddah *shudder. If they want to throw a mountain of cash - chump change for them - then maybe .... I hope not though

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Cork wind is fairly typical for much of British Isles and Britany. Pleasant summer SW from 8-20 knots. Potential for a sea breeze on a nice summers day. For me the interesting question is whether they would race in Cork harbour. It looks more confined than the north head course we had in Auckland. 

There must be a local who could give the low down on that. 
 

Valencia we've seen lots of racing there. Very typical med. 

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- Venue AKL

- GD will stay on

- There will be a new Kiwi boat

- INEOS (new boat), S&S (Te Aihe), LR (new boat), Alinghi (Prada purchase), AM (Patriot). I also wouldn't be surprised for a German / Dutch / Spanish challenge based on a purchase of a Britannia or one of the LR hulls. 

I think the biggest thing on how many new boats will be what they do with the deck / mast ball height rule. Cleary top tier teams will be building a new boat, but if this rule gets a significant re-write then it could out-class several of the AC36 hulls and put off the lower budget challenges. 

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As far as I am aware there has been potentialy 3 "Harbour" courses identified in Cork, 2 Inner harbour and 1 in the outer harbour (between Roches point and the forts). Then there is at least 3 Coastal courses which typically means 2 to the west of the harbour entrance which can be very close to shore and 1 remaining course to the east if conditions require it. Obviously the actual scouts involved have a much clearer understanding of the exact course dimensions needed and this seems to be what has been identified by them. It is unlikely the inner harbour courses would see a huge amount of use as there is a fairly limited wind condition window where these would work (Typically not much breeze within the harbour in a sea breeze with 12-15 kts at the outer harbour/ coastal course areas). 

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47 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Why do Kiwis always seem to feel the need to prefix the Waitemata with that adjective?

We don't, generally. But Prissy likes too - and good on him.

My understanding is that the literal translation of 'Wai-te-matā' means 'obsidian waters' – its sparkling glassy surface resembled volcanic obsidian rock. 

So it would seem Prissy has chosen his adjective well. Auckland Harbour sure does sparkle in the bright summer sunshine.

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I'm a little bit surprised Valencia is an option again. They still haven't got round to cleaning up the crap from 11 years ago.

 

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@39.4572807,-0.3155466,3a,60y,236.84h,86.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srTz7mCp0yuQLspTLwqk68A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

For me the interesting question is whether they would race in Cork harbour. It looks more confined than the north head course we had in Auckland. 

An interview (can't remember who) indicated the plan was outside. I've done the Cork Week "Harbour Race" and it would seem pretty confined for AC75 in anything except the ideal direction (WSW iirc). Outside (coastal), on the other hand, is proper Atlantic Ocean.

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Cork wind is fairly typical for much of British Isles and Britany. Pleasant summer SW from 8-20 knots. Potential for a sea breeze on a nice summers day. For me the interesting question is whether they would race in Cork harbour. It looks more confined than the north head course we had in Auckland. 

There must be a local who could give the low down on that. 
 

Valencia we've seen lots of racing there. Very typical med. 

Crikey those Irish dolphins seeing off that Jap ocean Hoover is a cracker sight.

B6E223CF-D49E-4892-9D98-3668554F5662.thumb.jpeg.3f337960acc2507fc62a5ffffc61745a.jpeg506B0B19-3F85-4246-8F92-CA02CBE8B430.thumb.jpeg.9042728ca04e834d9e41a5623ca35ad0.jpeg

 

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23 hours ago, dogwatch said:

If you've worked there, you will know that for expats, with a modicum of discretion, booze is obtainable and the locals aren't necessarily immune to the attractions of weed. "One hears" that sexual adventures between expats aren't entirely unknown either. As far as Saudis are concerned with what happens in expat compounds, don't ask, don't tell.

yes sure, I know about the "johnnie walker bridge" to Bahrain too.

but in public? Currently no booze sponsors i can think of, and there wouldn't be a Steinlager logo on the boat either.

this sort of celebration would be taboo as well, grape juice only 

 

<p>Glenn Ashby and Peter Burling of Team New Zealand celebrate</p>

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1 hour ago, Cube said:

As far as I am aware there has been potentialy 3 "Harbour" courses identified in Cork, 2 Inner harbour and 1 in the outer harbour (between Roches point and the forts). Then there is at least 3 Coastal courses which typically means 2 to the west of the harbour entrance which can be very close to shore and 1 remaining course to the east if conditions require it. Obviously the actual scouts involved have a much clearer understanding of the exact course dimensions needed and this seems to be what has been identified by them. It is unlikely the inner harbour courses would see a huge amount of use as there is a fairly limited wind condition window where these would work (Typically not much breeze within the harbour in a sea breeze with 12-15 kts at the outer harbour/ coastal course areas). 

Ah. So outside is in fact inside the harbour and proper outside is coastal. All clear.

My finger crossed it is Cork, though I'm not an Irish taxpayer.

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

When you come for AC37 you will see why for yourself.

Then why do you need to say so? The more something is true, the less you have to remind people. The Nepalese do not refer to "the very tall Alps", no-one refers to the Sahara as the "hot dry and sandy Sahara"

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14 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

2003 was a disaster for them but Ernesto tried for a time to fund TNZ and ran into some kind of intra-fratricidal bloodbath and so after a meeting in NY with RC and BB agreed to do things, umm, differently.

 

Didn’t know - is that a fact? Hard to justify Kiwi’s hate of EB, then

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14 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

There's been not much to discuss since last week's developments but TE touched on it again today. Here is his 'Cupdate Excerpt'

 

Seems to have been overlooked, but interesting points:

- what’s this about the 15M refundable deposit being required from candidate venues?

- and, @Rennmaus , at 9:15 he makes a convincing argument about dates being non- MCable

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