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Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.   IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards. The Wester

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

I have it on good authority (I read it on SA) 1) it's definitely Cork  2) It's definitely Jeddah  3) it's definitely not Valencia  4) though it could be Spain  5) Aukland is a

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Here is what Grant Dalton said in that article I posted:

“We don’t have a proposal, just simply an indication to try and find the money. I’m not sure you’d write a business plan based on hope,” Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton told Stuff of the communication from Dunphy, delivered just two days before the expected announcement.

“At this point there is no proposal. There are fundamental questions that we asked back in August which haven’t been addressed in any shape or form. It’s nowhere in our minds.”

Further....

“It has never really been so much about Auckland, the question is, should Team New Zealand financially cripple itself to stay here and then watch it unwind, whimper and badly lose,” Dalton said.

“I’m not sure that’s the right way for the team to operate, and it’s certainly not the way the team thinks.

“This whole ‘Keep the Cup in Auckland’ narrative that is being run up in the social channels … well there is another social channel that could basically say, ‘Let’s not lose the Cup in Auckland’.

“We will get this done as soon as we can, but we have also got to make the right decision too … the right decision for the team, the right decision for the Cup,” he said.

 

“The wrong decision is just to give the Cup away. Let’s not forget we are up against some of the world’s wealthiest people and some of the world’s most powerful countries who will just love Team New Zealand weakened. If I was in their position, I‘d be the same.

“We are a sports team, we have a responsibility to each other and to produce a winning combination, and we will always go that way.

“This is about winning the America’s Cup rather than setting ourselves up to lose it.

“The team will always come as a priority, that’s how we think collectively and that’s one of the reasons why we are so strong culturally - because we believe in ourselves.”

 

That doesn't sound like someone who wants to sail in Auckland at all costs!

I know I will probably make many enemies but I am totally absolutely back Grant Dalton here!

The needle on the Dunphy Bid hasn't moved at all. Several Questions are unanswered! As I said numerous times AC37 won't be in Auckland unless these two come together which I don't see happening. There is too much rancor and bad blood between Dalton & Dunphy I think!

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Seems to me that Dunphy is happy, ready and willing to face GD once/after GD begs for that meeting. While do I credit him for stepping up to the media yesterday, the bottom-line is that GD has no cards, he is in a hard place. No bids, no venue, no money. Auckland has its arms wide open.

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3 hours ago, accnick said:

And you would know all this….how?

"As Challenger of Record we continue to support the Defender to negotiate a venue decision at the earliest opportunity, as we appreciate how important a decision this is for all teams looking to challenge for the 37th America’s Cup" - INEOS Team UK.

The second point: Well, as Dalton has already said, no one in the team has even met Dunphy let alone discussed any proposal.

They have no idea what his proposal is, who is involved, how much money they have or how they intend that money to be spent.

Pretty impossible to accept a proposal you know nothing about.

As for the clown @Stingray~ saying Dalton should just take Dunphy's word for everything he's been saying and not ask questions, which is just the stupidest thing anyone on here has ever said. 

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If Dunphy was happy, ready and willing, he would've done it already. He knew just as everyone else did, that the venue announcement was due on or around 17 September, so if had a proposal and was willing to offer it, he should have. The fact that he didn't just show's he either doesn't have the cash and/ or backers he says he has, or his proposal indeed is not complete or confirmed to put to the Team. 

By not meeting with the team, all he is doing is potentially further damaging any prospect Auckland had of hosting by giving the other bids more time to complete their bids, as well as the holding up the progress of the teams. Nothing good has, or can come from Dunphy not putting his proposal to the team. 

Dalton again, holds all the cards. He has the trophy, he has "3 strong bids" and he has the full support of his CoR. 

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19 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

If Dunphy was happy, ready and willing, he would've done it already. He knew just as everyone else did, that the venue announcement was due on or around 17 September, so if had a proposal and was willing to offer it, he should have. The fact that he didn't just show's he either doesn't have the cash and/ or backers he says he has, or his proposal indeed is not complete or confirmed to put to the Team. 

Dalton again, holds all the cards. He has the trophy, he has "3 strong bids" and he has the full support of his CoR. 

Not so sure GD holds all the cards. He's not playing solitaire is he? I think he needs to be careful not to overplay the cards he holds, but I'm sure he knows that. He doesn't need an armchair rating like me to tell him how to suck eggs. ;-)

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56 minutes ago, idontwan2know said:

Dalton holds some cards, Dunphy claims to be holding the cards Dalts needs but may or may not be bluffing. 

Yes it's a legitimate question but if Dunphy was 'bluffing' then why on earth would he be fronting this effort while exuding so much dang confidence? GD has f'ing nothing, best we can tell.

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes it's a legitimate question but if Dunphy was 'bluffing' then why on earth would he be fronting this effort while exuding so much dang confidence? GD has nothing, best we can tell.

Given Dunphy long association with Faye GD cannot trust him, GD has written a letter asking for details of the proposal and Dunphy has failed to respond with concrete facts.

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes it's a legitimate question but if Dunphy was 'bluffing' then why on earth would he be fronting this effort while exuding so much dang confidence? GD has nothing, best we can tell.

Dunphy isn't showing much confidence of late. He was very vocal for a period of about 2 weeks when he said he had the backers and the proposal as long as Dalton stepped aside. When the Team publicly supported Dalton, Dunphy was forced to back down, which no doubt put him offside with some or all of his backers, hence the proposal not being sent to the team.

Looks like Dunphy wasn't prepared for the team to push back against his condition of Dalton stepping aside. He thought he could pressure the board and team into firing Dalton, when that fell through, so did his proposal.

 

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15 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Given Dunphy long association with Faye GD cannot trust him

What the hell is GD's problem with Faye? Is the money GD needs to get down and beg from him not green enough?? Does it need a ribbon and a 'God bless your sweet heart' card included in the charity envelope?

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Firstly, there are no suitable offers on the table. If there was an announcement, with great fanfare, would have been made on 17th.

So the plan of hundreds of millions has turned to custard, covid has certainly not helped this.

Dunphy either has backing or not. If he has none, the team should know and would have curtly told him to fuck off. The fact he has not been indicates the team thinks he might, unfortunately, be the only game in town. Dalts now has to back off the whole Auckland/NZ can't afford us and change ack. Now it is becoming Auckland was always on the cards and we never wanted to leave. But he threw some serious shit at Dunphy when the whole thing fist surfaced, perhaps he still thought Cork or Spain was coming through with tons of money. Whatever, now he is looking like it may have been a bit premature and he needs to backtrack.

My guess is Dunphy is serious, he has never been overly into exposure, so why would he pretend. He is also, quite fairly in my opinion, a bit pissed at the way he was treated at the beginning and will try and get Dalton to have a helping of humble pie as part of the price. Dalts doesn't really do back down or humble pie shit we'll, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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Just now, Terry Hollis said:

It's not just GD's problem, a lot of people in NZ have the same problem with Fay and Dunphy.

Fay yes, but Dunphy? Prior to this hardly anyone knew who the fuck he was. Even finding photos of him is difficult.

Still, never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Firstly, there are no suitable offers on the table. If there was an announcement, with great fanfare, would have been made on 17th.

So the plan of hundreds of millions has turned to custard, covid has certainly not helped this.

Dunphy either has backing or not. If he has none, the team should know and would have curtly told him to fuck off. The fact he has not been indicates the team thinks he might, unfortunately, be the only game in town. Dalts now has to back off the whole Auckland/NZ can't afford us and change ack. Now it is becoming Auckland was always on the cards and we never wanted to leave. But he threw some serious shit at Dunphy when the whole thing fist surfaced, perhaps he still thought Cork or Spain was coming through with tons of money. Whatever, now he is looking like it may have been a bit premature and he needs to backtrack.

My guess is Dunphy is serious, he has never been overly into exposure, so why would he pretend. He is also, quite fairly in my opinion, a bit pissed at the way he was treated at the beginning and will try and get Dalton to have a helping of humble pie as part of the price. Dalts doesn't really do back down or humble pie shit we'll, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Great post.

If they have any fucking sense, they will celebrate the deal here soon.. Not that MD will likely care either way, he's not into it for the media.

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Firstly, there are no suitable offers on the table. If there was an announcement, with great fanfare, would have been made on 17th.

So the plan of hundreds of millions has turned to custard, covid has certainly not helped this.

Dunphy either has backing or not. If he has none, the team should know and would have curtly told him to fuck off. The fact he has not been indicates the team thinks he might, unfortunately, be the only game in town. Dalts now has to back off the whole Auckland/NZ can't afford us and change ack. Now it is becoming Auckland was always on the cards and we never wanted to leave. But he threw some serious shit at Dunphy when the whole thing fist surfaced, perhaps he still thought Cork or Spain was coming through with tons of money. Whatever, now he is looking like it may have been a bit premature and he needs to backtrack.

My guess is Dunphy is serious, he has never been overly into exposure, so why would he pretend. He is also, quite fairly in my opinion, a bit pissed at the way he was treated at the beginning and will try and get Dalton to have a helping of humble pie as part of the price. Dalts doesn't really do back down or humble pie shit we'll, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Let's be honest here: Unless Dunphy discloses his "Anonymous Backers" to TNZ Dalton is unlikely to back down and why should he.

There are Rumours that some of Dunphys Backers don't even live in New Zealand.

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11 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Nobody is going to tell you online because of the legal issues so you will just have to live with that.

Oh my God, how is anyone supposed to 'live with that' ? :D :D :D 

MD has hinted at 'the legal issues' yes, but it's by no means obvious that GD has any defense ready on that front either.

AC37 now looks very likely to be held in Auckland whether GD wanted that or not. He has been cornered.

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5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Let's be honest here: Unless Dunphy discloses his "Anonymous Backers" to TNZ Dalton is unlikely to back down and why should he.

There are Rumours that some of Dunphys Backers don't even live in New Zealand.

And Emirates is such a great Kiwi company.

Who gives a toss where the money comes from? Certainly not the team as they were/are happy to sell the event to anyone with enough.

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10 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Firstly, there are no suitable offers on the table. If there was an announcement, with great fanfare, would have been made on 17th.

So the plan of hundreds of millions has turned to custard, covid has certainly not helped this.

Dunphy either has backing or not. If he has none, the team should know and would have curtly told him to fuck off. The fact he has not been indicates the team thinks he might, unfortunately, be the only game in town. Dalts now has to back off the whole Auckland/NZ can't afford us and change ack. Now it is becoming Auckland was always on the cards and we never wanted to leave. But he threw some serious shit at Dunphy when the whole thing fist surfaced, perhaps he still thought Cork or Spain was coming through with tons of money. Whatever, now he is looking like it may have been a bit premature and he needs to backtrack.

My guess is Dunphy is serious, he has never been overly into exposure, so why would he pretend. He is also, quite fairly in my opinion, a bit pissed at the way he was treated at the beginning and will try and get Dalton to have a helping of humble pie as part of the price. Dalts doesn't really do back down or humble pie shit we'll, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Dalton hasn't even met Dunphy. None of the team have met him. He has made no attempt to introduce himself, his backers or his proposal. So if they don't know him, or his backers, how would they know whether he has the cash!? Just assume? 

The team has ALWAYS said, right from the start, that Auckland was in the picture and was their preference. Unfortunately the Government offer, while completely reasonable given the circumstances, did not offer enough confidence to the team to be able to mount a second successful defence.

It wasn't Dalton that threw shit at Dunphy, it was Dunphy that tried to pressure the team into firing Dalton, which failed and led to at least 1 of Dunphy's backers getting cold feet.

Now it looks as if Dunphys bluff to the team backfired and his backers have now lost interest with Dalton still around, which is why he still hasn't sent his proposal to the team.

 

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Just now, Gissie said:

And Emirates is such a great Kiwi company.

Who gives a toss where the money comes from? Certainly not the team as they were/are happy to sell the event to anyone with enough.

Dalton obviously wants the Names who wanted to oust him from TNZ.

Heck, if I was Dalton I would want them too!

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12 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Pray tell? 'A lot of people in NZ' want to lose the Cup Defense to some other country too, I suppose? 

Fay was a dodgy prick who scammed millions out of Kiwi. He then did his dodgy challenge which some Kiwis thought was a crap idea. After he lost, all Kiwis thought it was a crap idea.

If he had won lots of these Kiwis would have treated him as a hero.

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

And Emirates is such a great Kiwi company.

Who gives a toss where the money comes from? Certainly not the team as they were/are happy to sell the event to anyone with enough.

Obviously the legal department cares where the money comes from. Thats their job.

Obviously Dunphy doesn't have enough, or Auckland would be the Cup venue.

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

Dalton obviously wants the Names who wanted to oust him from TNZ.

Heck, if I was Dalton I would want them too!

Really? You would place being a vindictive cunt over the survival of the team? You latest posts, sadly, show you probably would.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Obviously the legal department cares where the money comes from. Thats their job.

Obviously Dunphy doesn't have enough, or Auckland would be the Cup venue.

So why doesn't Dalts just tell him to fuck off?

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Fay was a dodgy prick who scammed millions out of Kiwi. He then did his dodgy challenge which some Kiwis thought was a crap idea. After he lost, all Kiwis thought it was a crap idea.

If he had won lots of these Kiwis would have treated him as a hero.

Okay, didn't realize that, thanks. I'm guessing he's a touch hard-headed?

 

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4 minutes ago, Gissie said:

And Emirates is such a great Kiwi company.

Who gives a toss where the money comes from? Certainly not the team as they were/are happy to sell the event to anyone with enough.

I am sure the NZ Government would love to know where that money comes from!

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

Really? You would place being a vindictive cunt over the survival of the team? You latest posts, sadly, show you probably would.

Has nothing to do with been a vindictive cunt!

All what Dunphy is doing here is trying to tear TNZ apart with his shenanigans!

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes it's a legitimate question but if Dunphy was 'bluffing' then why on earth would he be fronting this effort while exuding so much dang confidence? GD has f'ing nothing, best we can tell.

Correct me if I'm wrong Stinger, but when one is bluffing, are they not supposed to be, "exuding so much dang confidence", as to sell their bluff? ;-)

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Correct me if I'm wrong Stinger, but when one is bluffing, are they not supposed to be, "exuding so much dang confidence", as to sell their bluff? ;-)

Sure, I guess so but why would this guy MD interject himself into the Fray (see what I did there?) unless he was serious? You saw that TV clip, right?

Seems to me he will be coming right after GD, no fear and no holds barred. He and his buddies want this damn thing held in Auckland, they think that come Sept 18 they were proved right and that the Emperor had no Clothes.   

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52 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Great post.

If they have any fucking sense, they will celebrate the deal here soon.. Not that MD will likely care either way, he's not into it for the media.

I think you are 100% wrong there. Dunphy is playing the media pretty well.

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35 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Unbelievable! @Stingray~ and @Gissie saying shit like "Just have it in NZ, who cares where the money comes from? you know there are laws right? lol

Just make shit up. You are the one that claims that Dunphy has no money, but the money is all illegal and although there is no money it is all a tax dodge.

:lol:

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

But you said they already know, so they have already done due diligence. Just tell him to fuck off.

No, I NEVER said, they know. You did. I said, if Dunphy was serious, like he said he was 2 weeks ago, when he said he had the cash and the backers who were prepared to fund an Auckland defence, he would have presented that proposal to Dalton prior to the September deadline.

He didn't. He hasn't even met with either Dalton, or the team. 

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Just now, Gissie said:

Just make shit up. You are the one that claims that Dunphy has no money, but the money is all illegal and although there is no money it is all a tax dodge.

:lol:

Dunphy's personal wealth is irrelevant. It was you and Stingray who said "Who cares where the money comes from"

Obviously there are legal ramifications and consequences to accepting money from anywhere.

Dunphy hasn't presented a proposal, therefor he hasn't presented any money to the team, therefor Dunphy as a backer of the defence, has no money and no skin in the game.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

No, I NEVER said, they know. You did. I said, if Dunphy was serious, like he said he was 2 weeks ago, when he said he had the cash and the backers who were prepared to fund an Auckland defence, he would have presented that proposal to Dalton prior to the September deadline.

He didn't. He hasn't even met with either Dalton, or the team. 

You said just above that it is obvious he has no money. So how do you know without doing due diligence?

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Just now, Forourselves said:

Obviously there are legal ramifications and consequences to accepting money from anywhere.

Only if the money is illegal and I never suggested accepting money from a drug cartel is a good idea.

Anyway, will leave you to it.

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Just now, Gissie said:

You said just above that it is obvious he has no money. So how do you know without doing due diligence?

He hasn't presented any, therefor he has no money in the Americas Cup game. I don't give a shit about whats in his personal savings account, but he has not presented any money to the Defender, therefor, has no money in the Americas Cup in any way. No proposal = no money.

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15 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

But, but you said and I quote "Who cares where the money comes from?"

 

Last time. This was in response to the fact some of the money people might not be resident in NZ. Considering Emirates is not a Kiwi company I don't see why anyone, especially in the team, would give a flying fuck.

Considering the team appears to be running out of options, why would they care whether it is a Saudi Prince or a Chinese emperor.

They would just need to know that it had been sufficiently washed for them to have plausible deniablity.

I don't use ignore, so will try and just skim you and dg for a while.

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30 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Considering Emirates is not a Kiwi company I don't see why anyone, especially in the team, would give a flying fuck.

Bingo. And if the donors to keep the Cup Defense in Auckland include Ratcliff or PB or De Voss? Suck it up.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Last time. This was in response to the fact some of the money people might not be resident in NZ. Considering Emirates is not a Kiwi company I don't see why anyone, especially in the team, would give a flying fuck.

Considering the team appears to be running out of options, why would they care whether it is a Saudi Prince or a Chinese emperor.

They would just need to know that it had been sufficiently washed for them to have plausible deniablity.

I don't use ignore, so will try and just skim you and dg for a while.

Yes. Considering the Kiwi Home defence Ltd organisation is run out of a Post Office box belonging to Greymouth Petroleum who's interests include Russian Gas companies, its no wonder Dunphy doesn't want to name his backers.

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1 hour ago, Caecilian said:

Will someone please take this cursed chalice from our shores

It does feel like that, doesn't it? I guess we just have to keep the faith - until we don't.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Bingo. And if the donors to keep the Cup Defense in Auckland include Ratcliff or PB or De Voss? Suck it up.

 

 

You have a very active imagination, Stinger. Keep the conspiracy theories coming. ;-)

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12 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

It doesn't matter if Dunphy is open to anything! The sole Decision Maker whether Auckland hosts AC37 rests with GRANT DALTON!

I hope that Stingray or Spineray gets it now!

Literally he isn’t. As he doesn’t hold the cup, the RNZYS does. Without them he isn’t going anywhere. 
 

Do you get that now? 

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15 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

There is no way that a Cup Defence will be held in 2023. ETNZ & INEOS said from the outset that it would be either be a 1-1 Challenge in 2022 (that's moot now because they already announced it would be a Multi-Challenger Event) or a Conventional Cup Defence in 2024.

Why is Spineray bringing 2023 up here?

If all goes according to plan we have the Protocol on November 17th, the Entry Period opening on January 1st 2022 presumably to June 30th for additional Challengers, then some Preliminary Events in 2023 after the AC40 Class has been built up and then the CSS & AC in 2024.

Who cares about preliminary anything?  This is about the America’s Cup.  There is no reason a defense cannot be run in 2023.

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1 hour ago, sailman said:

Who cares about preliminary anything?  This is about the America’s Cup.  There is no reason a defense cannot be run in 2023.

2023 is impossible! It will be 2024! Without any Preliminary Events you don't get Challengers.

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5 minutes ago, accnick said:

I would call that Q anon level conspiracy theory. It has so many holes in it that bullshit streams out.

MW is essentially talking about the purchase of Te Rehutai designs, in exchange for a sum big enough to fund part of ETNZ's next campaign. It's not that far-fetched but my question is why it would need to have any subterfuge around it. ETNZ may already have moved on to a next-gen design and be happy enough to sell their prior design for that high a price. 

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

2023 is impossible! It will be 2024! Without any Preliminary Events you don't get Challengers.

Unless you are trying to make money, which is a sisyphean dream, all that is needed is one challenger. At this rate, it would be the winner. 

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes it's a legitimate question but if Dunphy was 'bluffing' then why on earth would he be fronting this effort while exuding so much dang confidence? GD has f'ing nothing, best we can tell.

Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand.

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