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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Maybe he has help with that. Or yes, maybe (like the much bigger sums sunk into these things by $B's) it is 'an ego boost'? Wth cares, good on him.

But the article quote him as saying it was his own money.  As for comparing it to the billionaires that have coughed up in recent events - $20m over $1b is small change at 2% vs 10%.  If you were a multi-billionaire it would be a rounding error.

As for caring.  Well Stinger you are quick to find conspiracies under the bed along with Nigerian cheques when it suits your agenda but you don't question at all where Dunphy's money is coming from.

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Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.   IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards. The Wester

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

I have it on good authority (I read it on SA) 1) it's definitely Cork  2) It's definitely Jeddah  3) it's definitely not Valencia  4) though it could be Spain  5) Aukland is a

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

But the article quote him as saying it was his own money.  As for comparing it to the billionaires that have coughed up in recent events - $20m over $1b is small change at 2% vs 10%.  If you were a multi-billionaire it would be a rounding error.

As for caring.  Well Stinger you are quick to find conspiracies under the bed along with Nigerian cheques when it suits your agenda but you don't question at all where Dunphy's money is coming from.

Very well said @Kate short for Bob!

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12 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

you don't question at all where Dunphy's money is coming from.

I agree it's an interesting question and MW at Rule69 wrote an entire freaking blog post about the question of where MD's money is coming from. His post was far more 'conspiratorial' than what I had casually wondered about and posted, like about if Ratty and/or other Challenger $B's were trying to help this thing along. I do agree that there's likely someone 'big' behind most of the $80M that MD is comfortable in promising.  

Fun mystery to speculate about but again: IF it does solve GD's latest fucking money problems then who cares who-all that is in the end?

 

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21 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I agree it's an interesting question and MW at Rule69 wrote an entire freaking blog post about the question of where MD's money is coming from. His post was far more 'conspiratorial' than what I had casually wondered about and posted, like about if Ratty and/or other Challenger $B's were trying to help this thing along. I do agree that there's likely someone 'big' behind most of the $80M that MD is comfortable in promising.  

Fun mystery to speculate about but again: IF it does solve GD's latest fucking money problems then who cares who-all that is in the end?

 

The legal department also has a job to do. It’d be pretty obvious if the team suddenly fired their entire legal department and then announced a deal had been struck.

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5 hours ago, Xlot said:

Yawn. All EB’s got to do is hiring Guillaume Verdier

Ya think? What about foils and sail/control design? There's a hell of a lot more to an AC75 that an optimised hull design.

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18 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Oh my God, how is anyone supposed to 'live with that' ? :D :D :D 

MD has hinted at 'the legal issues' yes, but it's by no means obvious that GD has any defense ready on that front either.

AC37 now looks very likely to be held in Auckland whether GD wanted that or not. He has been cornered.

Not so fast, Stinger. Even a shithouse rat ain't done-in by a few slick cornering moves. Things can get pretty nasty, pretty quick. 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

can anyone copy/post this article? have reached my article-limit there

Hosting the America's Cup: Can Ireland afford the prestigious sailing event? (irishexaminer.com)

But there are also those who think that if Ireland has to host any international sailing event, it should be one with more appeal, and less cost, like SailGP — the sailing world’s fastest racing league.

Launched by former America’s Cup winners Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts in 2018 to establish a commercially viable annual global race series, it involves national teams competing against each other in a series of contests hosted around the world. SailGP teams pay around €5m to compete, far less than the €100m or so needed for an America's Cup team.

For now, though, the dream of hosting America’s Cup is the one being discussed and it’s one that goes back a while. 

In 2003, the sailing grounds of Dingle Bay were discussed in the Seanad as a possible location for the contest for the oldest trophy in international sport. At the time, there were claims the event “would bring €1bn into the economy of the west”. However, Ireland’s bid was beaten that year by landlocked Switzerland, the first European country to win the cup.

Fast forward to today and Ireland's application to host the 37th America’s Cup (AC37) in 2024 has not only been accepted by race organisers in New Zealand — the last America’s Cup winners — but until last Friday looked very likely to have succeeded. On the previous Monday, Minister of Public Expenditure and Reform Michael McGrath revealed that Minister of Sport Catherine Martin was not ready to bring an America’s Cup proposal to the Cabinet until after September 17, the date that the preferred bidder was to be announced. This date was subsequently put back, though, raising Ireland's hopes once again.

The potential economic boost from the cup is sizeable: Some scenarios put the figure at €400m to €500m, though costs are estimated to be between €180m and €190m. Apparently, in the worst possible scenarios, Ireland could lose money on its investment, much like the situation facing some Olympic host cities or countries that made large investments to host World Cups. If it did, Ireland wouldn’t be the first America’s Cup host to either lose money or end up with debts.

A few days before the September 17 announcement had been due to be made, Valencia had pulled out. The south eastern Spanish port city was a hot contender having hosted it twice previously. In June, shortly after Valencia yacht club Real Club Náutico de Valencia announced its bid to host the cup, the city’s mayor Joan Ribo was less than enthusiastic. Valencia has pulled out of the competition to host the 37th America’s Cup in 2024. And the reason for his coolness? The level of outstanding debt from hosting the contest in 2007. “We have to pay €6m this year and six next year,” he told reporters. This started in 2007, we are in 2021, and we are still paying debt". The event was important but had very high costs for the city.

The cost-benefit analysis on Auckland's hosting of the last cup contest doesn’t make for great reading either. The country’s official “post-event” report on the 36th America’s Cup (AC36) pointed to losses of more than €90m. Some of the money spent was on works that were planned regardless, but were brought forward to be ready in time for AC36. The event — which was the most-watched America’s Cup of all time — attracted 38,745 visitors to Auckland, and they stayed a total of 377,765 nights around the region. It had a global audience of 68.2m viewers in 198 countries. While the fact that New Zealand was on lockdown at the time is one factor in its losses, it’s not the only one. The report states: “The overall economic return of AC36 was much lower than forecast. This was due to the lower-than-expected number of challengers and then the subsequent impacts of Covid-19, as well as the costs being higher than forecast.” Despite the determination by the organisers to have it hosted elsewhere, New Zealand is still in contention to host the contest.

Asked about it recently, the country's prime minister Jacinda Ardern said her government is still in negotiations with organisers. But she has also made it clear there is only so far her government is prepared to go into negotiations. “We’ve put our best foot forward, but there’s also limits to what we can do,” Ms Ardern said in June.

Sailing Ireland CEO Harry Hermon is in no doubt of the benefits of an America's Cup hosted here. "It wouldn't just be for sailing,” he said. "I think all water sports would have a huge kickback from the America's Cup if it was to come to Ireland in terms of showcasing the outdoors and showcasing the water as such. It would be a colossal event for us."

A contractual dispute emerged between the race organisers and New Zealand due to issues which emerged during an audit. While allegations of financial impropriety were found to be wrong, consultants Beattie Varley still rapped the organisers for failing to maintain a "contemporaneous and documented record" that would allow for objective verification. “It attracts an increased criticism given costs are funded to a significant amount by taxpayers," it added.

Minister Michael McGrath was asked by the Irish Examiner if he had read the report. Although he said he hadn’t seen it himself, he said that “as part of due diligence being carried out, we are looking at the experience in New Zealand” and that all elements "will be considered in the round".

Among the elements which is likely to be factored into any consideration is the €60.5m economic boost the country saw from hosting the Volvo Ocean Race finale in 2012. But it should be remembered that the event left organisers Let’s Do It Global Ltd with debts of around €400,000. And when they passed on the chance to host it again, they said this was a “consequence of the present debt and lack of interest by government agencies in investing in any new application”.

It remains to be seen if the supporters of the America's Cup can keep the momentum going and save it from sinking, as it did in 2003, but the last word goes to former senator, Joe O'Toole, whose idea to host the America’s Cup in Kerry was brought up in the Oireachtas in 2003. He doesn’t think Ireland can afford to host an America's Cup at the moment and that maybe now is not the time to make a serious bid for it. “Ireland is good at this kind of thing, there's no question,” he said. “We are in the right location, we have the amenities and we have the capacity, and have the interest in doing this. It will be good for the Irish brand, that's really what I was aiming for. I think we should throw our hat in the ring. (But) I don't think we can afford to do it at this stage, maybe it's not the time to go full-blooded.” 

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19 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ya think? What about foils and sail/control design? There's a hell of a lot more to an AC75 that an optimised hull design.

True, but Verdier knows a thing or two about foils too. Look at Apivia's foils in the Imoca class, for instance.

In the end it is all about teamwork, the inspiration, brainstorming, feedback etc.

And besides, I have a feeling that for Guillaume the team is more important than the money.

Probably owns some nice property up in the Bay of Islands too.

 

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1 minute ago, Fiji Bitter said:

True, but Verdier knows a thing or two about foils too. Look at Apivia's foils in the Imoca class, for instance.

In the end it is all about teamwork, the inspiration, brainstorming, feedback etc.

And besides, I have a feeling that for Guillaume the team is more important than the money.

Probably owns some nice property up in the Bay of Islands too.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, Verdier moved on, this go-around.

I kinda got the impression he wasn't all that comfortable alongside Bernasconi's design/simulation team. Maybe he prefers his own design routines? Who knows?

I think, Dan would be a far greater loss to TNZ at this stage than, Guillaume. But what the fuck would I know, eh?

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8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, Verdier moved on, this go-around.

I kinda got the impression he wasn't all that comfortable alongside Bernasconi's design/simulation team. Maybe he prefers his own design routines? Who knows?

I think, Dan would be a far greater loss to TNZ at this stage than, Guillaume. But what the fuck would I know, eh?

With a Frenchman, never underestimate the language factor.

And no offense, but Brittany is definitely on par with the Bay of Islands

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34 minutes ago, Xlot said:

With a Frenchman, never underestimate the language factor.

And no offense, but Brittany is definitely on par with the Bay of Islands

Worked with a Bretton many years ago. Great Times.

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Faroe islanders have been pretty quiet for a few centuries now. Very suspicious

They've certainly not much to say for themselves after the latest, Grindadrap. Bastards.

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On 9/17/2021 at 12:46 PM, dogwatch said:

One would not. Delta isn't going away (unless something even more infectious displaces it), not at least with existing vaccines. You can't vaccinate your way to herd immunity against Delta, Israel has shown that.

bullcrap.

 

There was an Americas cup and an Olympic games in 2021.

Covid is going to be much easier for both to handle in 2024

New Zealand's current scare with covid is not likely to last that long. 

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

The South Africans?

Shit, they are never quiet.

The Swedes?

We can host it.

european timezone great for raceviews

lots of VIP activities for those who need it

image.png.a9e36c63915eb05b70e5540d72ff9b2f.png

Happy to fund Dalt's requests to keep ETNZ afloat too, on the condition that he'll take watertight IOUs from my Nigerian uncle who happens to be a wealthy prince running into some forex issues.

 

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10 minutes ago, shebeen said:

 

Happy to fund Dalt's requests to keep ETNZ afloat too, on the condition that he'll take watertight IOUs from my Nigerian uncle who happens to be a wealthy prince running into some forex issues.

 

I think the other foreign bidders like Cork would take a dim view of your plagiarism of their financial statements

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1 hour ago, shebeen said:

There was an Americas cup and an Olympic games in 2021.

Covid is going to be much easier for both to handle in 2024

New Zealand's current scare with covid is not likely to last that long. 

Curious how sometimes on SA you say A and someone assumes you also mean B, C and D. Did I say there wasn't going to be an AC in 2024? No I did not.

But it won't be in South Africa.

 

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44 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Maybe Sir Jim should just "buy the Cup."  Lord Dalton can't really afford it. 

 

46 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Maybe Sir Jim should just "buy the Cup."  Lord Dalton can't really afford it. 

No fun without the battle of ideas, will and actual sport on the water, surely?

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On 9/20/2021 at 4:20 PM, dogwatch said:

Curious how sometimes on SA you say A and someone assumes you also mean B, C and D. Did I say there wasn't going to be an AC in 2024? No I did not.

But it won't be in South Africa.

 

Definitely not, that was clearly a joke!

Think you're merging two issues there - All I was saying about 2024, is that covid is unlikely to be an insurmountable hurdle to hosting it in NZ. They're saying it's currently a stumbling block to viewing sites, but that sounds like dog ate my homework excuse.

 

 

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14 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Lord Dalton can't really afford it. 

^This

Underpinning this clown show is the fact that Dalton isn't rich enough to even seed fund a team!

You gotta sell a lot of logo space to make up that deficit....

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49 minutes ago, Liquid said:

^This

Underpinning this clown show is the fact that Dalton isn't rich enough to even seed fund a team!

You gotta sell a lot of logo space to make up that deficit....

but that's why  he is the greatest fund raiser in the history of like forever?  you wont be able to see the sails or hull for the mount of sponsor logos he has up his sleeve, it truly will be the boat of 5 million strong.

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28 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

but that's why  he is the greatest fund raiser in the history of like forever?  you wont be able to see the sails or hull for the mount of sponsor logos he has up his sleeve, it truly will be the boat of 5 million strong.

O-K that's going to be an empirical matter.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

but that's why  he is the greatest fund raiser in the history of like forever?  you wont be able to see the sails or hull for the mount of sponsor logos he has up his sleeve, it truly will be the boat of 5 million strong.

Just remember...

Emirates

Fly better

 

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With Cork needing another six months to sort out if they can host AC37 and the Spanish Bid apparently having the same troubles you ought to believe that JEDDAH is now the firm Frontrunner to aquire the AC37 Hosting Rights!

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38 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just remember...

Emirates

Fly better

 

must be great comfort to those in Yemen being bombed to know that GD is flying better... winning is everything right?

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19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

must be great comfort to those in Yemen being bombed to know that GD is flying better... winning is everything right?

Last time I checked Emirates Team NZ wasn’t bombing anyone in Yemen.

If you can’t separate politics from sport, that’s your problem.

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

must be great comfort to those in Yemen being bombed to know that GD is flying better... winning is everything right?

Plenty of spin pours forth from the spout of the TNZ PR machine regarding sustainability gender equality etc maybe on the long haul flight to the Evil Empire whilst dressed like Fanboyfour Lord Dalton and his minions may choose to wile away the hours reading….

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/saudi-arabia#

 

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

you wont be able to see the sails or hull for the mount of sponsor logos he has up his sleeve, it truly will be the boat of 5 million strong

Made me think - there is ad space on the team goggles just going to waste...

 

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40 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Meanwhile the USA sends in a drone to blow up civilians including children in Afghanistan.

Which is exactly why AM isn't going to play if it is in the Middle East.  Who knows what the situation with be in 2024 when teams are suppose to arrive.

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50 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Which is exactly why AM isn't going to play if it is in the Middle East.  Who knows what the situation with be in 2024 when teams are suppose to arrive.

F**k American Magic. They went home with a big fat 0 last time and got dropped by their respective yacht club in favour of another team so they’re hardly in a position to dictate terms. 

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1 hour ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Which is exactly why AM isn't going to play if it is in the Middle East.  Who knows what the situation with be in 2024 when teams are suppose to arrive.

Hello?!?!

You do realize that Saudi Arabia (if it's Jeddah) is one of the closest US Allies if not the closest in the Middle East, no?

During the 1992 Gulf War and 2003 2nd Gulf War almost 95 % of the Missions to be flown into Iraq were from Saudi Arabia namely the Dharaan Air Force Base and Riyadh Air Force Base.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hello?!?!

You do realize that Saudi Arabia (if it's Jeddah) is one of the closest US Allies if not the closest in the Middle East, no?

During the 1992 Gulf War and 2003 2nd Gulf War almost 95 % of the Missions to be flown into Iraq were from Saudi Arabia namely the Dharaan Air Force Base and Riyadh Air Force Base.

Ally in name only.  Americans in Saudi stay in walled compounds for safety.

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hello?!?!

You do realize that Saudi Arabia (if it's Jeddah) is one of the closest US Allies if not the closest in the Middle East, no?

During the 1992 Gulf War and 2003 2nd Gulf War almost 95 % of the Missions to be flown into Iraq were from Saudi Arabia namely the Dharaan Air Force Base and Riyadh Air Force Base.

Yep such great allies we are, why I remember this time a while back when some of their guys even "helped" fly "some planes".

 

Swell bunch of guys.

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22 minutes ago, animeproblem said:

Yep such great allies we are, why I remember this time a while back when some of their guys even "helped" fly "some planes".

 

Swell bunch of guys.

15 out of a total crew of 19 and wasn’t their CEO a card carrying Saudi as well.

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12 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Last time I checked Emirates Team NZ wasn’t bombing anyone in Yemen.

If you can’t separate politics from sport, that’s your problem.

Yes that’s right  because you have never been critical of INEOS involvement of the AC have you.. 

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11 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Meanwhile the USA sends in a drone to blow up civilians including children in Afghanistan.

So that makes it ok does it? 

So which Americas cup team Was sponsored  by and a floating billboard for General Automics 

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18 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Yes that’s right  because you have never been critical of INEOS involvement of the AC have you.. 

No, I haven’t. You know why? Because INEOS is a sponsor, nothing more, nothing less. It’s about winning. I’ve been critical of INEOS Team UK for many reasons. budget allocation? Yes. They had one of the biggest budgets and some of the most experienced talent both in the sailing team, design team and shore crew. They themselves said there was no excuses for not doing well. They said it during one of their “stem crew” videos. They have some of the best and most experienced people in the AC, they have a budget that allowed them to do everything they want to do, and they have all of the tools they need to be successful. Yet they turned up in Auckland with a Boat that started off as a dog, that forced the team to implement all of their modifications early, expose their hand and get demolished. So was I critical? Yes. Am I still critical? Yes. There is no reason why Ineos shouldn’t at least be a part of the match, if not be the Defender by now.

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15 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hello?!?!

You do realize that Saudi Arabia (if it's Jeddah) is one of the closest US Allies if not the closest in the Middle East, no?

During the 1992 Gulf War and 2003 2nd Gulf War almost 95 % of the Missions to be flown into Iraq were from Saudi Arabia namely the Dharaan Air Force Base and Riyadh Air Force Base.

Just because the governments may be allies it doesn't mean that rogue middle eastern people won't use the opportunity to strike Americans.....the flag flies everywhere - base, clothing, BOAT, chase peoples, gear....

Lots of people would love the opportunity to get 40 virgins by strapping on a vest and delivering SA's version of Gilmours to the base.

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46 minutes ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Just because the governments may be allies it doesn't mean that rogue middle eastern people won't use the opportunity to strike Americans.....the flag flies everywhere - base, clothing, BOAT, chase peoples, gear....

Lots of people would love the opportunity to get 40 virgins by strapping on a vest and delivering SA's version of Gilmours to the base.

When we had our last boat in Salalah, Oman shortly after the suicide attack on the USS Cole in Aden, the local police told us not to fly our US flag, as it made us a potential target.

We never flew it afterwards in any part of the Arab world.

We flew it again on final approach to southern Israel when an Israeli gunboat pulled up alongside us once we cleared Egyptian waters.

It felt good to finally be able to do that again, even with a pair of .50 cals  trained on you.

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18 hours ago, Chobani Sailor said:

Just because the governments may be allies it doesn't mean that rogue middle eastern people won't use the opportunity to strike Americans.....the flag flies everywhere - base, clothing, BOAT, chase peoples, gear....

Lots of people would love the opportunity to get 40 virgins by strapping on a vest and delivering SA's version of Gilmours to the base.

Where do you get all that science fiction from? You have absolutely no clue whatsoever about the situation in KSA, UAE or Qatar. They probably are the safest places on earth.

If the AC comes to Jiddah, I can assure you that EVERYBODY, including Americans, will be much, much safer than in NYC, Chicago or Philadelphia (https://6abc.com/philadelphia-shooting-gun-violence-philly-crime-mantua/11040943/).

How would you react if I advised you not to visit San Francisco, Los Angeles or San Diego because of the violence and killings in Tijuana?  

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7 hours ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Where do you get all that science fiction from? You have absolutely no clue whatsoever about the situation in KSA, UAE or Qatar. They probably are the safest places on earth.

Enjoy your fantasies. You probably are speaking positively in case you ever have to set foot in an embassy. "Safest" indeed. 

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  ^ Tend to agree with PoF with regards to UAE and Qatar [incidentally, pretty Al-Ain must have changed a lot since expats now live there]. Now Saudi is a gloomy, depressing place - perhaps more landlocked Riyadh than coastal Jeddah and Eastern province, several knifings of foreigners in commercial centers in the past

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40 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ Tend to agree with PoF with regards to UAE and Qatar [incidentally, pretty Al-Ain must have changed a lot since expats now live there]. Now Saudi is a gloomy, depressing place - perhaps more landlocked Riyadh than coastal Jeddah and Eastern province, several knifings of foreigners in commercial centers in the past

Al-Ain is a very fine place where your chances of getting robbed, assaulted or shot are zero, unlike Rome and Naples :D:D

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13 minutes ago, Pizza on Fire said:

Al-Ain is a very fine place where your chances of getting robbed, assaulted or shot are zero, unlike Rome and Naples :D:D

Unless of course you are homosexual in which case you could be flogged or even executed.

 

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It's a pity this forum that used to provide juicy inside info has turned into an Arab-hating platform.

It would be much simpler if you just wrote "I don't want the AC to go to Saudi Arabia because I don't like Arabs." At least, you'd be honest! 

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On 9/22/2021 at 1:51 PM, Forourselves said:

F**k American Magic. They went home with a big fat 0 last time and got dropped by their respective yacht club in favour of another team so they’re hardly in a position to dictate terms. 

who needs an American team for the America's Cup anyway? lol.

I guess American viewership ain't worth shit either.

imo, the risk right now is TNZ built the cup too big. oops, I guess this is already old news - hence "E"TNZ.

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20 minutes ago, Pizza on Fire said:

It's a pity this forum that used to provide juicy inside info has turned into an Arab-hating platform.

It would be much simpler if you just wrote "I don't want the AC to go to Saudi Arabia because I don't like Arabs." At least, you'd be honest! 

Oh don't reach for the racist card, that is bollocks. I have no problem with Arabs. I am friends with a few people of Arabian descent. I do have some problems with Saudi's appalling human rights (as do my friends of arabia descent). Their law is their own and so in that sense they can do what they want. But whilst they have the sexist and homophobic laws, plus the disregard for rule of law, human rights etc they have, then I don't think we should be sending events like this there.

 

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On 9/22/2021 at 3:51 PM, Forourselves said:

F**k American Magic. They went home with a big fat 0 last time and got dropped by their respective yacht club in favour of another team so they’re hardly in a position to dictate terms. 

Who said American Magic was dictating terms?

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More irrelevancies from the village idiot. Did I say America was the greatest country?

Do I believe America is the greatest country?

A resounding no. Unsurprisingly given I am not a yank. Nor is the UK, or NZ, or Italy

But all of those are are all a hell of a lot better on human rights, freedom and democracy than KSA

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44 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

More irrelevancies from the village idiot. Did I say America was the greatest country?

Do I believe America is the greatest country?

A resounding no. Unsurprisingly given I am not a yank. Nor is the UK, or NZ, or Italy

But all of those are are all a hell of a lot better on human rights, freedom and democracy than KSA

Human rights blah blah blah They live by their own law, Islamic Law. This is what happens when the Western world tries to impose its way of life on other countries, while at the same time they continue to oppress indigenous peoples and in the case of the US, its authorities still display abhorrent racism and discrimination against minorities.

None of this ANYTHING to do with sporting events. Sport often brings people of different cultures together. 

So enough with your "Human rights" preaching. It is NOT the responsibility of ETNZ or any sporting team or federation to solve the worlds human rights problems. Thats what Governments are for. 

Stop making dumb excuses for your rhetoric and move on from the human rights problem and realize sport is about competition, not politics.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Human rights blah blah blah They live by their own law, Islamic Law. This is what happens when the Western world tries to impose its way of life on other countries, while at the same time they continue to oppress indigenous peoples and in the case of the US, its authorities still display abhorrent racism and discrimination against minorities.

None of this ANYTHING to do with sporting events. Sport often brings people of different cultures together. 

So enough with your "Human rights" preaching. It is NOT the responsibility of ETNZ or any sports team or any sporting team or federation to solve the worlds human rights problems. Thats what Governments are for. 

Move on from the human rights problem and realize sport is about competition, not politics.

Just make sure you design an AC75 that can outrun and withstand the terrorists:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55298807

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Let sport bring people together. All for that. Is KSA going to enter a women's team in this AC40 that GD is proposing? If so I withdraw my objection.

Because it should be about bring all people together. Not just hetro-sexual males

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

Let sport bring people together. All for that. Is KSA going to enter a women's team in this AC40 that GD is proposing? If so I withdraw my objection.

Because it should be about bring all people together. Not just hetro-sexual males

Who cares? Is the US going to enter an African American team? They're people too you know.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

I care. I am sure many others do too. 

Fine. But SA entering a womens team in the 40's should not be a condition of whether the event goes to SA, especially given that there hasn't been a womens team in the AC for the last 26 years, yet only now is it a problem.

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Fascinatingly, after sending all white rugby teams to South Africa, New Zealand eventually categorized Maori players "honorary whites" to play in apartheid South Africa.

  https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2014/01/rugby-apartheid-and-the-law/

Maybe every AC participant or spectator can be categorized as "honorary cis hetero male" by the Defender.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Who cares? Is the US going to enter an African American team? They're people too you know.

 

 

I care very much. But the US allows African Americans to compete in sport. Whereas KSA only allows the minimum women to compete to stop them being thrown out by IOC.

Fwiw I am a strong critic of racial discrimination too. And you are right, KSA is pretty shit on that score too. Though not so enshrined law as the sexual discrimination

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Fine. But SA entering a womens team in the 40's should not be a condition of whether the event goes to SA, especially given that there hasn't been a womens team in the AC for the last 26 years, yet only now is it a problem.

No but you obviously don’t care about such things.

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13 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I care very much. But the US allows African Americans to compete in sport. Whereas KSA only allows the minimum women to compete to stop them being thrown out by IOC.

Fwiw I am a strong critic of racial discrimination too. And you are right, KSA is pretty shit on that score too. Though not so enshrined law as the sexual discrimination

Ah, there in lies the issue.

Most countries don't have pay equity between Men and women, so women are being discriminated against in almost every western nation as well.

The US also allows black men to shop in white neighborhoods too. Doesn't stop them racially profiling them though does it?

The US has one of the worst track records of racial discrimination in the developed world. Look at the most recent developments, Trump supporters, the majority of whom were white males, and Black Lives Matter demonstrators are both being lumped in the same boat as terrorists.

One group are radical right wing conspiracy theorists believing in a lie perpetrated by their own former President, the others are entire generations of African American people protesting the fact that the US authorities are discriminating against, and killing African American people.

If we're going to say the AC shouldn't go to the KSA because they have human rights issues, then we have to do the same with pretty much all western world countries as well. Do we just stop sport altogether? Or do we just say "well we're better than those Arabs"

 

that makes us no better than them.

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WWE owned by Trumpers, dontcha know?  Apparently not without controversy even within WWE.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_in_Saudi_Arabia

Glad to know the leading fan and advocate of all things "The Team Formerly Known as ETNZ" has established the WWE as the moral arbiter for the Defense of the America's Cup and the national reputation of NZ "sport not politics."

 

 

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10 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

WWE owned by Trumpers, dontcha know?  Apparently not without controversy even within WWE.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_in_Saudi_Arabia

Glad to know the leading fan and advocate of all things "The Team Formerly Known as ETNZ" has established the WWE as the moral arbiter for the Defense of the America's Cup and the national reputation of NZ "sport not politics."

 

 

Nope, just saying, politics and sport shouldn't mix.

The US has an appalling human rights record, as does Australia, NZ, China, and many other countries.

If sport was conditioned on human rights, sport wouldn't exist.

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5 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That was a South African determined category NOT a NZ one.

Ok the first article was unclear.

This one calls it a compromise. https://teara.govt.nz/en/nga-ropu-tautohetohe-maori-protest-movements/page-4

In any case, if the Defender got KSA to declare anyone interested or participating in AC an honorary cis hetero male, all good then.

 

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20 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Fascinatingly, after sending all white rugby teams to South Africa, New Zealand eventually categorized Maori players "honorary whites" to play in apartheid South Africa.

Waka Nathan “Black Panther” passed this week aged 81.

He never got to be classed as a honorary white the NZRU just left him at home for the 1960 South Africa tour as he was the wrong shade of human for the apartheid state of South Africa to accept and furthermore the NZRU never apologised for excluding players of colour.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Didn’t stop the NZRU shamefully acquiescing.

That's your viewpoint.  Mine is that by the NZRU  standing firm on the inclusion of all in the All Blacks based on individual merit assisted in the breakdown of apartheid in sport.

There is some irony of course in that the current Springbok team is selected on a reverse racism quota system not on individual merit.

I don't see many of you jumping up and down about that.  I guess you would call it by the euphemism of positive discrimination.

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

He never got to be classed as a honorary white the NZRU just left him at home for the 1960 South Africa tour as he was the wrong shade of human for the apartheid state of South Africa to accept and furthermore the NZRU never apologised for excluding players of colour.

I take it you were old enough to experience the hurt that has left you with a 60 year old grudge?

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