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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Why the fuck is 4 a big champion of human rights in the KSA all of a sudden? 

Oh, that's right.. :D

 

Learn to read. I'm not a big champion of human rights in the KSA. 

I'm saying they live by their own law - Sharia law, Islamic law.

They have lived that way for centuries.

The Western world, doesn't have to like it. Surely they should be free to practice their culture, just as the western world is free to practice ours.

Whether or not the AC, or any sport goes to the KSA to hold events isn't going to change the way they live or the way they practice their religion. It is naive to think it would.

If they have the means to host sports events, whats the problem? 

You don't like the way they live? Tough.

 

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Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.   IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards. The Wester

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

I have it on good authority (I read it on SA) 1) it's definitely Cork  2) It's definitely Jeddah  3) it's definitely not Valencia  4) though it could be Spain  5) Aukland is a

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3 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And Four has taught us that sport must be considered with no other context except of course $upport from $ponsor and venue.   Unpleasant memories of "this day in Kiwi rugby history have surfaced...

Not that unpleasant for all, it has to be said. At the time, I couldn't have given a rat's arse about the SA Rugby Tour of NZ. The only thing worrying me was the possibility my boundary fence was likely to be torn to bits and used as weapons against the, Cops. I lived quite close to Eden Park. ;-)

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 I'm saying they live by their own law - Sharia law, Islamic law.

They have lived that way for centuries.

The Western world, doesn't have to like it. Surely they should be free to practice their culture, just as the western world is free to practice ours.

Hmmmm. Could that same argument have been applied by the Western World to the way, South Africa lived under Apartheid? Prolly would have saved some angst. Askin for a concerned citizen of, Aotearoa.

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10 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And Four has taught us that sport must be considered with no other context except of course $upport from $ponsor and venue.   Unpleasant memories of "this day in Kiwi rugby history have surfaced...

Ah well, I guess we just don't have sport anymore.

I don't see anyone complaining about SailGP going to Australia yet they wiped out an entire generation of Aboriginal people, but that seems to be okay.

I bet there are still "unpleasant memories" in a lot of aboriginal families to this day.

I hope you're all going to boycott SailGP now?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ah well, I guess we just don't have sport anymore.

I don't see anyone complaining about SailGP going to Australia yet they wiped out an entire generation of Aboriginal people, but that seems to be okay.

I bet there are still "unpleasant memories" in a lot of aboriginal families to this day.

I hope you're all going to boycott SailGP now?

 

 

If Australia's treatment of its indigenous people were extant, I'm sure a lot of us would oblige, 4ourselves. Likely you included, I'm thinking, no?

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9 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Ah well, I guess we just don't have sport anymore.

I don't see anyone complaining about SailGP going to Australia yet they wiped out an entire generation of Aboriginal people, but that seems to be okay.

I bet there are still "unpleasant memories" in a lot of aboriginal families to this day.

I hope you're all going to boycott SailGP now?

 

 

Now Clarkey, you are going to have to back that statement about Aus with some facts.  You will be hard pressed to find any.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Hmmmm. Could that same argument have been applied by the Western World to the way, South Africa lived under Apartheid? Prolly would have saved some angst. Askin for a concerned citizen of, Aotearoa.

It could've been applied to a lot of countries, including the US, the UK, Australia, NZ, Russia, Japan.

Yet the Olympics has been to every one of those nations except NZ.

Like I said, SailGP goes to Australia, yet they wiped out an entire generation of Aboriginals, who's people are still subject to racial discrimination to this day.

I hope people on here clamoring for human rights in KSA are going to do the same for SailGP?

What about the Olympics, Beijing, Australia, London, Russia (of all nations) hosted what is arguably the biggest sporting event in the world today.

The FIFA world cup was held in Russia of all Nations. You wanna talk about human rights?

China puts children to work in sweatshops making everything from shoes to football's for mere cents an hour while those same products are then sold for hundreds if not thousands of dollars each! 

Human rights my ass! If you're such a human rights advocate, I hope you're not going to watch, support, follow any sports or sports events that are held in any of those nations, otherwise you're a hypocrite.

 

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2 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Now Clarkey, you are going to have to back that statement about Aus with some facts.  You will be hard pressed to find any.

The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen Children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian federal and state government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. The removals of those referred to as "half-caste" children were conducted in the period between approximately 1905[1] and 1967,[2][3] although in some places mixed-race children were still being taken into the 1970s.[4][5][6]

Official government estimates are that in certain regions between one in ten and one in three Indigenous Australian children were forcibly taken from their families and communities between 1910 and 1970

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen Children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian federal and state government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. The removals of those referred to as "half-caste" children were conducted in the period between approximately 1905[1] and 1967,[2][3] although in some places mixed-race children were still being taken into the 1970s.[4][5][6]

Official government estimates are that in certain regions between one in ten and one in three Indigenous Australian children were forcibly taken from their families and communities between 1910 and 1970

I think you had better dig deeper about the Stolen Generation.  As you stated it was children with mixed blood not full bloods so the Aboriginals that were involved so hardly wiped out a generation.  You could say it wiped out a generation of whiteys seeing that was the strongest bloodline.

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7 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I think you had better dig deeper about the Stolen Generation.  As you stated it was children with mixed blood not full bloods so the Aboriginals that were involved so hardly wiped out a generation.  You could say it wiped out a generation of whiteys seeing that was the strongest bloodline.

Thats beside the point. Their children were forcibly removed by the government of that time. So I guess none of them had the right to keep their children? 

The fact that you are defending the act of forcibly removing children from families is abhorrent in itself.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

And Four has taught us that sport must be considered with no other context except of course $upport from $ponsor and venue.   Unpleasant memories of "this day in Kiwi rugby history have surfaced...

Whilst it is plainly ignorant to maintain politics and sport should not mix it is usually the safe harbour for those that know from the get go the regimes they are supporting their local teams competing against are at least dodgy and at best completely dysfunctional concerning matters of fundamental human rights.

Having said that sport in many instances is a microcosm of society.

I was sitting in Eden Park 1981 watching a small black ballon drift poignantly across a much hushed paddock at half time emblazoned with the name Steve Biko as squads of trench coated riot shielded baton wielding police whirled outside in precise union clobbering all that moved within reach whilst Marx Jones in a stolen Cessna cut the engine revs to dip below the west stand as his crew of one jettisoned various items I was seated in the opposite stand as the second half of the deciding test between the All Blacks and South Africa commenced.

Nothing was going to stop that game48C97C17-D3ED-487B-BB89-E10F989817F2.jpeg.0aa6b9b777c74825ad080cbc3878aed3.jpeg

Gary Knight concussed by a bag of flour thrown from the plane.

83444371-E904-4F6F-B2FE-AEFBF46AB425.jpeg.0ef9a599fb5807e8576ca33865384d2d.jpeg
 

Oh and the score 25-22 after Alan Hewson slotted a last minute penalty.

D69F791A-8415-47C9-86EC-D75E555F52BA.jpeg.8e4a6e1e02878d65f82cfeceea8864b9.jpeg

 

 

 

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The All Blacks play the USA Eagles on October 23rd in Washington D.C.

The USA is a nation who's authorities and law enforcement, blatantly murder African American people and often get away with it.

This has been happening for decades.

Do we boycott the AB's because they are playing in the USA? Isn't it a human right to live your life without fear of being killed by those who are supposed to protect?

Do we boycott all American sports because of it?

Do we boycott SailGP because they go to Australia, a nation who's government forcibly removed children from their parents? 

Do we boycott the Olympics because they held an Olympics in Russia (A nation also with human rights issues) do we boycott Football as well? They held the FIFA World Cup in Russia.

China has human rights issues yet the Olympics were held there.

Where does it stop? 

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

The All Blacks play the USA Eagles on October 23rd in Washington D.C.

The USA is a nation who's authorities and law enforcement, blatantly murder African American people and often get away with it.

This has been happening for decades.

Do we boycott the AB's because they are playing in the USA? Isn't it a human right to live your life without fear of being killed by those who are supposed to protect?

Do we boycott all American sports because of it?

Do we boycott SailGP because they go to Australia, a nation who's government forcibly removed children from their parents? 

Do we boycott the Olympics because they held an Olympics in Russia (A nation also with human rights issues) do we boycott Football as well? They held the FIFA World Cup in Russia.

China has human rights issues yet the Olympics were held there.

Where does it stop? 

Identity politics can be a bitch.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Ah well, I guess we just don't have sport anymore.

I don't see anyone complaining about SailGP going to Australia yet they wiped out an entire generation of Aboriginal people,

 

 

with catamarans ?

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5 hours ago, trt131 said:

Now Clarkey, you are going to have to back that statement about Aus with some facts.  You will be hard pressed to find any.

Why don't you come Abo shooting, tomorrow Sunday, in Tas.

You will be hard pressed to find any, and they run so fast and hide in the bush, but you may be lucky.

If no luck, you can always come and stay in our resort at Port Arthur.  Plenty of room there since we let all your mates on the loose on the mainland.

 

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11 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Ah, there in lies the issue.

Most countries don't have pay equity between Men and women, so women are being discriminated against in almost every western nation as well.

The US also allows black men to shop in white neighborhoods too. Doesn't stop them racially profiling them though does it?

The US has one of the worst track records of racial discrimination in the developed world. Look at the most recent developments, Trump supporters, the majority of whom were white males, and Black Lives Matter demonstrators are both being lumped in the same boat as terrorists.

One group are radical right wing conspiracy theorists believing in a lie perpetrated by their own former President, the others are entire generations of African American people protesting the fact that the US authorities are discriminating against, and killing African American people.

If we're going to say the AC shouldn't go to the KSA because they have human rights issues, then we have to do the same with pretty much all western world countries as well. Do we just stop sport altogether? Or do we just say "well we're better than those Arabs"

 

that makes us no better than them.

 

6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

 

Sorry, didn't want to quote you. 

5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The All Blacks play the USA Eagles on October 23rd in Washington D.C.

The USA is a nation who's authorities and law enforcement, blatantly murder African American people and often get away with it.

This has been happening for decades.

Do we boycott the AB's because they are playing in the USA? Isn't it a human right to live your life without fear of being killed by those who are supposed to protect?

Do we boycott all American sports because of it?

Do we boycott SailGP because they go to Australia, a nation who's government forcibly removed children from their parents? 

Do we boycott the Olympics because they held an Olympics in Russia (A nation also with human rights issues) do we boycott Football as well? They held the FIFA World Cup in Russia.

China has human rights issues yet the Olympics were held there.

Where does it stop? 

You overlook a significant factor: The US, Aus etc. have anti-discrimination laws and a legal system in a constitutional democracy. Show me something similar in KSA (or Russia for that matter). 

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4

1) yes all our countries have some history we would rather they didn't. But we can't change history so that's irrelevant

2) yes, none of our countries are perfect (not even your glorious Daltistan) but there is a hell of difference between democracies with habeus corpus, free speech and laws on equality, to a corrupt dictatorship that treats women as serfs, some foreigners as slaves and homosexuals as criminals.

3) one can argue that is their choice (though the vast majority of the population have little say so we don't really know) but that doesn't mean to say we have to help them sport wash it. From realpolitik we have had to deal with them for a long time. That is coming to an end as we reduce our dependence on oil, let's not support what is happening there now.

And yes I agree China is little better. I don't think it should go there either

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Lucky bugger, Bitter promised to put me on that list. Hopefully I am number three.

Users currently being ignored.

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  1.  Pissie4ever 

    ~Stingray~~

  2. ~Spinray~~

     

    image.png.53344a3a908326121d10647e6ddfbe52.png

     

    You cannot ignore yourself.

     

 

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

 

Sorry, didn't want to quote you. 

 

Click on top left of dialogue box and then delete. ;-)

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12 hours ago, Forourselves said:

So are we all boycotting SailGP now? 

Didn't think so. 

I deleted my app and don't watch except clips on here ever since their owner became a large Trump donor as well as other RWNJs.

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4 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Hey For, guess who New Zealand's LARGEST TRADING PARTNER IS?

CHINA

And what ya import....sweatshop goods!

Best go boycott yourself.

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/br/trade/free-trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements-in-force/nz-china-free-trade-agreement/key-facts-on-new-zealand-china-trade/

What are you moaning about, NZL has a positive balance of trade with CHN. Oops - just noticed you are in the USA.

"sweatshops?" hahahahahahaahaha

Sorry, I had to laugh. China has some of the most restrictive employee protection regulations/laws I have ever encountered or heard of.

And by the way the last 19 years until I retired my clients were expat managers & high level employees of factories and other multinational business and the subject of how difficult it was to get rid of an under-performing employee was a frequent topic of conversation.

It's the communism bit that does that you know. No I am not a commie, I was just teasing but in all seriousness employees are in general well looked after in China.

You will find there is a much higher concentration of 'sweatshops' in the garment trade  in Birmingham, UK or NY, USA.

then again, propaganda is so powerful, just ask Mr Trump.. 

Oh dear, now I will be accused of being a 50 center again but in reality I just say what I see

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33 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

 

You will find there is a much higher concentration of 'sweatshops' in the garment trade  in Birmingham, UK or NY, USA.

then again, propaganda is so powerful, just ask Mr Trump.. 

 

propaganda is indeed powerful. So lets concentrate on some facts instead shall we?

Definition of a sweat shop:

Quote

a factory or workshop, especially in the clothing industry, where manual workers are employed at very low wages for long hours and under poor conditions.

Lets consider the pay first. 

The average salary in China is $884/month (source https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php)

The MINIMUM pay in the UK is £8.91/hour or $12.2/hour. So the lowest paid worker in the UK would only have to work 72.5 hours a month to reach the AVERAGE income in china. 

In terms of working conditions it can be harder to put in objective terms. Occupation accident rates are one such. Unfortunately China is not exactly open and honest at its rate, though the WHO suggest it is at least 11  per 100k per year (https://www.who.int/quantifying_ehimpacts/methods/en/takala.pdf page 3). Whereas the UK is 0.61 per 100k per year.

So looking at the best objective data we have, your claim appears to be complete bollocks. Alternatively, what passes for a sweat shop in the UK is a dream job in China.

And lets not even get started on human rights in China shall we?

 

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42 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

propaganda is indeed powerful. So lets concentrate on some facts instead shall we?

Definition of a sweat shop:

Lets consider the pay first. 

The average salary in China is $884/month (source https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php)

The MINIMUM pay in the UK is £8.91/hour or $12.2/hour. So the lowest paid worker in the UK would only have to work 72.5 hours a month to reach the AVERAGE income in china. 

In terms of working conditions it can be harder to put in objective terms. Occupation accident rates are one such. Unfortunately China is not exactly open and honest at its rate, though the WHO suggest it is at least 11  per 100k per year (https://www.who.int/quantifying_ehimpacts/methods/en/takala.pdf page 3). Whereas the UK is 0.61 per 100k per year.

So looking at the best objective data we have, your claim appears to be complete bollocks. Alternatively, what passes for a sweat shop in the UK is a dream job in China.

And lets not even get started on human rights in China shall we?

 

Probably some factories in Xinjiang have stellar working conditions too. 

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

What are you moaning about, NZL has a positive balance of trade with CHN. Oops - just noticed you are in the USA.

"sweatshops?" hahahahahahaahaha

Sorry, I had to laugh. China has some of the most restrictive employee protection regulations/laws I have ever encountered or heard of.

And by the way the last 19 years until I retired my clients were expat managers & high level employees of factories and other multinational business and the subject of how difficult it was to get rid of an under-performing employee was a frequent topic of conversation.

It's the communism bit that does that you know. No I am not a commie, I was just teasing but in all seriousness employees are in general well looked after in China.

You will find there is a much higher concentration of 'sweatshops' in the garment trade  in Birmingham, UK or NY, USA.

then again, propaganda is so powerful, just ask Mr Trump.. 

Oh dear, now I will be accused of being a 50 center again but in reality I just say what I see

I guess the Uighurs don't sew? The US and UK are heavily flawed, but it's kind of bullshit to compare them to a brutal dictatorship.

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15 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The All Blacks play the USA Eagles on October 23rd in Washington D.C.

The USA is a nation who's authorities and law enforcement, blatantly murder African American people and often get away with it.

This has been happening for decades.

Do we boycott the AB's because they are playing in the USA? Isn't it a human right to live your life without fear of being killed by those who are supposed to protect?

Do we boycott all American sports because of it?

Do we boycott SailGP because they go to Australia, a nation who's government forcibly removed children from their parents? 

Do we boycott the Olympics because they held an Olympics in Russia (A nation also with human rights issues) do we boycott Football as well? They held the FIFA World Cup in Russia.

China has human rights issues yet the Olympics were held there.

Where does it stop? 

^Well @shanghaisailor did not realize you were so knee-jerk about China. Maybe if you read what you react to more carefully eg "For" you would be better received. The above in a long wave of posts preening about NZ and sport having no politics/mores/whatever is what I was referencing and trying not to quote For because it annoys people.

3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

What are you moaning about, NZL has a positive balance of trade with CHN. Oops - just noticed you are in the USA.

"sweatshops?" hahahahahahaahaha

Sorry, I had to laugh. China has some of the most restrictive employee protection regulations/laws I have ever encountered or heard of.

And by the way the last 19 years until I retired my clients were expat managers & high level employees of factories and other multinational business and the subject of how difficult it was to get rid of an under-performing employee was a frequent topic of conversation.

It's the communism bit that does that you know. No I am not a commie, I was just teasing but in all seriousness employees are in general well looked after in China.

You will find there is a much higher concentration of 'sweatshops' in the garment trade  in Birmingham, UK or NY, USA.

then again, propaganda is so powerful, just ask Mr Trump.. 

Oh dear, now I will be accused of being a 50 center again but in reality I just say what I see

Well you don't see everything in the post you jumped on or the posts above and clearly just jumped in as an unconvincing apologist. We don't have sweatshops we outsourced them to China. 

My point to For was that he was going on about places with worse records than KSA, yet more-free sport goes there and noble Kiwis should not be fettered. He mentioned China. I pointed out that noble Kiwis trade most with China, lololol. 

Back to the soup dumplings, Shang. 

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6 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

^Well @shanghaisailor did not realize you were so knee-jerk about China. Maybe if you read what you react to more carefully eg "For" you would be better received. The above in a long wave of posts preening about NZ and sport having no politics/mores/whatever is what I was referencing and trying not to quote For because it annoys people.

Well you don't see everything in the post you jumped on or the posts above and clearly just jumped in as an unconvincing apologist. We don't have sweatshops we outsourced them to China. 

My point to For was that he was going on about places with worse records than KSA, yet more-free sport goes there and noble Kiwis should not be fettered. He mentioned China. I pointed out that noble Kiwis trade most with China, lololol. 

Back to the soup dumplings, Shang. 

Actually, most of “our” clothing sweatshops are in places like Vietnam and Bangladesh these days.

 

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1 hour ago, accnick said:

Actually, most of “our” clothing sweatshops are in places like Vietnam and Bangladesh these days.

 

What not Guam, too? Fine. Nonetheless NZ is no arbiter of social mores. 

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7 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Back to the soup dumplings, Shang. 

Yummmm. And steamed dumplings. Very tasty. ;-)

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22 minutes ago, 167149 said:

you still catching kahawai up there ?

Mostly snapper and gurnard lately.  Had an amazing close encounter with a whale just last week. No shortage of marine life about, Bream Bay.

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25 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Mostly snapper and gurnard lately.  Had an amazing close encounter with a whale just last week. No shortage of marine life about, Bream Bay.

there was (1985) a standing school of kahawai just off head rock going south toward Te arai sort of centred on where that new bar was, caught 98 in 35 mins to feed the crew building the R Tucker Thomson, ate the lot too , was a well kept secret till some prick with a purse seiner wiped them out for cat food .  Bleed them well and they're a bloody good feed which holds together for stir fries and all sorts of other stuff, Used to get Schnaps as well as gurnard too, do recall surfing head rock and being visited by Orcax2, fuck are those fins tall sitting on a surfboard, quite a few sharks used to come in and cruise as well McGregors was the place for kingies and crays, Mangawhai was a totally different harbor then, just and I do mean just squeezed the tucker out at high tide, so glad to see that new bar closed

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29 minutes ago, 167149 said:

there was (1985) a standing school of kahawai just off head rock going south toward Te arai sort of centred on where that new bar was, caught 98 in 35 mins to feed the crew building the R Tucker Thomson, ate the lot too , was a well kept secret till some prick with a purse seiner wiped them out for cat food .  Bleed them well and they're a bloody good feed which holds together for stir fries and all sorts of other stuff, Used to get Schnaps as well as gurnard too, do recall surfing head rock and being visited by Orcax2, fuck are those fins tall sitting on a surfboard, quite a few sharks used to come in and cruise as well McGregors was the place for kingies and crays, Mangawhai was a totally different harbor then, just and I do mean just squeezed the tucker out at high tide, so glad to see that new bar closed

The old Kaha is an underrated fish. Had a fresh from the water one two days ago, barbie on the grill, nam pla and rice. Better than snaps to my mind.

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51 minutes ago, 167149 said:

there was (1985) a standing school of kahawai just off head rock going south toward Te arai sort of centred on where that new bar was, caught 98 in 35 mins to feed the crew building the R Tucker Thomson, ate the lot too , was a well kept secret till some prick with a purse seiner wiped them out for cat food .  Bleed them well and they're a bloody good feed which holds together for stir fries and all sorts of other stuff, Used to get Schnaps as well as gurnard too, do recall surfing head rock and being visited by Orcax2, fuck are those fins tall sitting on a surfboard, quite a few sharks used to come in and cruise as well McGregors was the place for kingies and crays, Mangawhai was a totally different harbor then, just and I do mean just squeezed the tucker out at high tide, so glad to see that new bar closed

There were a couple of juvenile seals, all the way up the river, at Moir Point for a couple of weeks not long ago. Not sure where they parked up, when the harbour drained. Have seen, Orca in the river after stingrays, from time to time. Also a rather large Mako shark in Picnic Bay, just inside the Head. Must have been cruising over the Bar, looking for a feed of Surfer, eh! ;-)

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11 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

There were a couple of juvenile seals, all the way up the river, at Moir Point for a couple of weeks not long ago. Not sure where they parked up, when the harbour drained. Have seen, Orca in the river after stingrays, from time to time. Also a rather large Mako shark in Picnic Bay, just inside the Head. Must have been cruising over the Bar, looking for a feed of Surfer, eh! ;-)

yup, quite a place, right now though I'm into another challenge, trying to find the "right" tuck for an eye splice in  4 strand left hand laid rope, not quite as easy as you'd think , however I'll get there

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5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Yummmm. And steamed dumplings. Very tasty. ;-)

Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.

 

15 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

propaganda is indeed powerful. So lets concentrate on some facts instead shall we?

Lets consider the pay first. 

The average salary in China is $884/month (source https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php)

The MINIMUM pay in the UK is £8.91/hour or $12.2/hour. So the lowest paid worker in the UK would only have to work 72.5 hours a month to reach the AVERAGE income in china. 

In terms of working conditions it can be harder to put in objective terms. Occupation accident rates are one such. Unfortunately China is not exactly open and honest at its rate, though the WHO suggest it is at least 11  per 100k per year (https://www.who.int/quantifying_ehimpacts/methods/en/takala.pdf page 3). Whereas the UK is 0.61 per 100k per year.

So looking at the best objective data we have, your claim appears to be complete bollocks. Alternatively, what passes for a sweat shop in the UK is a dream job in China.

And lets not even get started on human rights in China shall we?

 

IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards.

The Western media is full of articles about people complaining that because of inflation their earnings don't buy as much as they used to.

Comparing apples with oranges has very little if any value whatsoever.

A couple of DIRECT comparisons from opposite end of the spectrum. 

I have just returned from a road trip to Hainan. I used a hire car from our southern home in Guangzhou to Hainan. That car, a hybrid SUV was 170RMB a day or just over 20 quid. The same car from Europacar in the UK (or as near an equivalent as I could find on the internet) had a daily rate of GBP185. I'll make it easy for you - that's 9 times the cost.

Before any counter argument comes back, it was very nice, had all the usual tricks like cruise control, air-con, handled well, was not tiring to drive, etc etc.  It also had a Euro 5 engine and, because it is exported has gone through the normal crash testing process. The ferry to the island was around 40% of Dover - Calais.

At the other end of the cost scale, breakfast, while we were there, was costing around the UK equivalent of a couple of packets of Walker's Crisps (the small packet that is) per person.

My dental work a couple of years back was around 10% of a UK dentist, my latest spectacles, titanium frame, prescription polarised and tinted were 60 quid with a free eye test using all the equipment you would find in Specsavers UK which, by the way, would have charged 20-25 quid just for the eye test come in around 100 +59 for the lenses totalling 190 ish.

However to use your own figures, $884. Fuck my admin assistant was on more than that 5 years ago PLUS mandatory payments to the state National Insurance scheme.

A UK worker has to work 70 hours to match the Chinese wages? Well by your own reckoning the Chinese worker is on around 40% of the UK minimum wage but their costs for many, if not most, staples is less than 20% of the UK

I know China is not perfect, probably better than most on these forums but virtually all the anti-China posters either have never been here, let alone lived here, or get their "information" through a third party which similarly, has never been here or uses flawed comparisons.

One thing needs to be remembered, 40 years ago China was largely a peasant agrarian society, they are indeed way behind the curve compared to countries that had their industrial revolution 150 years ago but they are catching up and catching up fast.

In the 20 years I have lived and worked here I have seen a massive increase in people's wealth, health and happiness, better cars, houses, higher literacy rates, the (claimed) eradication of abject poverty built a highway network (dual, triple and in some cases quadruple carriageway) allowing farmers to get their produce to the big cities increasing their income and a 37,000km high speed (180mph+) rail network. Air travel can be a bitch though as the number of flights have really put pressure on their air space.

However other countries continually try to put them down when they might be better served working towards solving their own problems first.

 

 

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3 hours ago, 167149 said:

yup, quite a place, right now though I'm into another challenge, trying to find the "right" tuck for an eye splice in  4 strand left hand laid rope, not quite as easy as you'd think , however I'll get there

It's all about the overs and unders, no? ;-)

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17 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Man. I can't help laughing. Yep I love them.

 

IT is not how much you earn but what those earnings will buy that is important. That is the true measure of living standards.

The Western media is full of articles about people complaining that because of inflation their earnings don't buy as much as they used to.

Comparing apples with oranges has very little if any value whatsoever.

A couple of DIRECT comparisons from opposite end of the spectrum. 

I have just returned from a road trip to Hainan. I used a hire car from our southern home in Guangzhou to Hainan. That car, a hybrid SUV was 170RMB a day or just over 20 quid. The same car from Europacar in the UK (or as near an equivalent as I could find on the internet) had a daily rate of GBP185. I'll make it easy for you - that's 9 times the cost.

Before any counter argument comes back, it was very nice, had all the usual tricks like cruise control, air-con, handled well, was not tiring to drive, etc etc.  It also had a Euro 5 engine and, because it is exported has gone through the normal crash testing process. The ferry to the island was around 40% of Dover - Calais.

At the other end of the cost scale, breakfast, while we were there, was costing around the UK equivalent of a couple of packets of Walker's Crisps (the small packet that is) per person.

My dental work a couple of years back was around 10% of a UK dentist, my latest spectacles, titanium frame, prescription polarised and tinted were 60 quid with a free eye test using all the equipment you would find in Specsavers UK which, by the way, would have charged 20-25 quid just for the eye test come in around 100 +59 for the lenses totalling 190 ish.

However to use your own figures, $884. Fuck my admin assistant was on more than that 5 years ago PLUS mandatory payments to the state National Insurance scheme.

A UK worker has to work 70 hours to match the Chinese wages? Well by your own reckoning the Chinese worker is on around 40% of the UK minimum wage but their costs for many, if not most, staples is less than 20% of the UK

I know China is not perfect, probably better than most on these forums but virtually all the anti-China posters either have never been here, let alone lived here, or get their "information" through a third party which similarly, has never been here or uses flawed comparisons.

One thing needs to be remembered, 40 years ago China was largely a peasant agrarian society, they are indeed way behind the curve compared to countries that had their industrial revolution 150 years ago but they are catching up and catching up fast.

In the 20 years I have lived and worked here I have seen a massive increase in people's wealth, health and happiness, better cars, houses, higher literacy rates, the (claimed) eradication of abject poverty built a highway network (dual, triple and in some cases quadruple carriageway) allowing farmers to get their produce to the big cities increasing their income and a 37,000km high speed (180mph+) rail network. Air travel can be a bitch though as the number of flights have really put pressure on their air space.

However other countries continually try to put them down when they might be better served working towards solving their own problems first.

 

 

Fine, let's account for local prices and use GDP Purchasing Power Parity per capita. On that measure China has an average income around 1/3 of the UK. So you are still talking bollocks. And I know that China is catching up, I never said it wasn't. It was you that made the risible and entirely unsupportable suggestion that there were more sweatshops in Birmingham Uk than in China.

Which as we have seen all measured is just plain wrong. Do you accept that it was wrong? Or won't your bosses allow you?

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6 hours ago, 167149 said:

yup, quite a place, right now though I'm into another challenge, trying to find the "right" tuck for an eye splice in  4 strand left hand laid rope, not quite as easy as you'd think , however I'll get there

Are you fitting the Tucker?

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4 minutes ago, barfy said:

Now, what were we talking about?:D

This place is hilarious, I seriously forgot what topic I was reading.

Basically how GD is running out of options.

NZ is not enough money and he has rejected Dunphy

Ireland have asked for 6 months, which would appear to be a polite way of saying feck off 

Spain is vapourware 

Jeddah we don't know what they bid. But it's either not enough or even GD won't sell that part of his soul. Otherwise he would have taken it. Unless he is desperately hoping for another bid that is more palatable but will take Jeddah if he has to

And then there are the rumours of a mystery bidder. But again if they had bid enough he would have taken it. 

So he seems to have a choice of the unpalatable, the unacceptable or the non-existent.

Worth noting that Jeddah would hardly encourage teams and the more teams, the better the exposure for sponsors.

 

 

 

 

 

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from No plain sailing with Cup | Southern Star

‘A funding package of hundreds of millions of euro will be secured if we get this as it would be like bringing an Olympics game style event to West Cork which is unheard of in Irish sporting history. The economic benefit of this would be at least €1bn over three years,’ Minister Coveney’s party colleague Tim Lombard told The Southern Star at the time.

But now it’s like the hot potato that nobody wants to hold.

 

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16 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 

I know China is not perfect, probably better than most on these forums but virtually all the anti-China posters either have never been here, let alone lived here, or get their "information" through a third party which similarly, has never been here or uses flawed comparisons.

One thing needs to be remembered, 40 years ago China was largely a peasant agrarian society, they are indeed way behind the curve compared to countries that had their industrial revolution 150 years ago but they are catching up and catching up fast.

 

My wife and I spent a few weeks in China in 2019 and I'd have to agree.  The speed of modernisation was staggering and places like Shanghai and Beijing were world-class in terms of infrastructure.  The population were friendly and helpful and younger people were pretty much the same as young people anywhere.  Ignoring the high level politics, we very much enjoyed our stay and were impressed.  Not at all like the China that most people imagine.

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Communism and '5 year wheat plans' works in some ways but we are discussing KSA. And the KSA form/culture of dictatorship is most especially nothing that I want any part of, let alone for Jeddah being an inferno-hot hell hole with no open beverages even allowed, and (far more importantly) with women confined to freaking burkas! It's just way too far-gone for many of us, I suspect for almost all of us AC aficionado's too.  

I am a firm believer in Democracy. Despite its messy imperfections, it beats the crap out of dictatorships - and most especially medieval Islamist dictatorships.

MW said when he was a guest on TE's show recently that he gets calls from GD sometimes, even one on that same morning. MW also wrote a blog post less recently about how amazing an event a Jeddah thing could be, I'm guessing that angle on it came from GD since.. who else?

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@Stingray~In Saudi it’s not burkas but niqabs. In Malaysian hotels - where the rich go for the summer, since they’re no longer welcome in Europe - it was striking to see invariably fat boys splashing in the swimming pools, while their mothers and sisters stood by clad from head to toe in funereal black.

And for inferno-hot hell hole, try inland Ryiadh, typically five degrees warmer than Jeddah ...

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On 9/24/2021 at 11:12 PM, Kate short for Bob said:

That's your viewpoint.  Mine is that by the NZRU  standing firm on the inclusion of all in the All Blacks based on individual merit assisted in the breakdown of apartheid in sport.

There is some irony of course in that the current Springbok team is selected on a reverse racism quota system not on individual merit.

I don't see many of you jumping up and down about that.  I guess you would call it by the euphemism of positive discrimination.

As a South African I can assure you that's not true.

The national rugby team is most definitely selected on merit these days, and they happen to be the world champions. There are quotas and requirements further down but not the top. Politics is very much engaged with sport, for good and bad reasons, but corruption and administrative incompetence hold us back much more than racial segregation these days.

 

Here's the winning team from the SSL gold cup test event 1 last week in switzerland. Helmed by a really talented sailor, double olympian in the 470 class. I look forward to seeing a more diverse mix of sailors coming from all the countries with the resources to make a difference.

 

eb5741c4cd911eb8a6123ba63a71f8c9ee90a5cf.jpeg

 

 

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12 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Communism and '5 year wheat plans' works in some ways but we are discussing KSA. And the KSA form/culture of dictatorship is most especially nothing that I want any part of, let alone for Jeddah being an inferno-hot hell hole with no open beverages even allowed, and (far more importantly) with women confined to freaking burkas! It's just way too far-gone for many of us, I suspect for almost all of us AC aficionado's too.  

I am a firm believer in Democracy. Despite its messy imperfections, it beats the crap out of dictatorships - and most especially medieval Islamist dictatorships.

MW said when he was a guest on TE's show recently that he gets calls from GD sometimes, even one on that same morning. MW also wrote a blog post less recently about how amazing an event a Jeddah thing could be, I'm guessing that angle on it came from GD since.. who else?

You actually believe that GD rings up Magnus for a chat? Holy fuck that’s funny. 

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9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You actually believe that GD rings up Magnus for a chat? Holy fuck that’s funny. 

Yes, GD is among the people MW hears from and as he said too, when hearing a variety of viewpoints ‘you try to connect the dots.’ 

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Just taking his word? … how does it explain his utter bullshit and getting caught out 9/10 times to the point the TE even had to disavow some of his rhetoric 

still it would explain the current shit show, too busy phoning Magnus fir a chat instead of sorting the Cup by the dates they had stated.  Where was the scoop that was going to be missed? 

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Just taking his word? … how does it explain his utter bullshit and getting caught out 9/10 times to the point the TE even had to disavow some of his rhetoric 

still it would explain the current shit show, too busy phoning Magnus fir a chat instead of sorting the Cup by the dates they had stated.  Where was the scoop that was going to be missed? 

I have no reason to 'attack' MW the way you do, I find his writing mostly entertaining and sometimes thought-provoking too. He is one of only a few producing any material at all and I will continue to post Rule69 links. Yes, he did say he occasionally chats with Dalts, said he had briefly even that morning. And yes I believe him, RG certainly chats with GD too, I'm sure a number of folks do. There was a recent blogpost by MW where he sounded all enthusiastic about Jeddah and now I'm thinking Dalts may have chatted him up on the prospect. Another time recently MW in a blog raised the possibility that there is some nefarious plot hidden behind the Dunphy effort, whereby competitors ('enemies' I suppose) and maybe EB, was trying to indirectly get hold of a Te Rehutai design.. To which I commented here 'That sounds a bit nuts as a conspiracy theory, since why would someone not just inquire directly about purchasing one.'  

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10 hours ago, shebeen said:

The national rugby team is most definitely selected on merit these days, and they happen to be the world champions. There are quotas and requirements further down but not the top.

Incorrect.  The SARU has declared racial quotas for the Sprngboks. You infer that that doesn't have an influence on selection.  I'd be very surprised if it doesn't.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I have no reason to 'attack' MW the way you do, I find his writing mostly entertaining and sometimes thought-provoking too. He is one of only a few producing any material at all and I will continue to post Rule69 links. Yes, he did say he occasionally chats with Dalts, said he had briefly even that morning. And yes I believe him, RG certainly chats with GD too, I'm sure a number of folks do. There was a recent blogpost by MW where he sounded all enthusiastic about Jeddah and now I'm thinking Dalts may have chatted him up on the prospect. Another time recently MW in a blog raised the possibility that there is some nefarious plot hidden behind the Dunphy effort, whereby competitors ('enemies' I suppose) and maybe EB, was trying to indirectly get hold of a Te Rehutai design.. To which I commented here 'That sounds a bit nuts as a conspiracy theory, since why would someone not just inquire directly about purchasing one.'  

Hmm when during the Xmas cup he was alleging that INEOS team members were jumping ship and sending CV’s  out without a shred of evidence, then weeks later sucking up to the team he had been slagging off.  
 

It suggests someone with a weak grasp of reality let alone on the phone to players in the AC. 
 

ffs Shirley thinks he is a joke as do INEOS there were posts on linked in stating as much during the AC when she was asked directly about him, yet his blog recently was all sucking up to her. 
 

people tolerate to village idiot as it’s easier and more polite than telling him to fuck off

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31 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Hmm when during the Xmas cup he was alleging that INEOS team members were jumping ship and sending CV’s  out without a shred of evidence,

That's the big beef you have with him? Sheesh.. :)

 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

That's the big beef you have with him? Sheesh.. :)

 

Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying? Erm yep that’s a decent thing to take issue with. 
 

 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying? Erm yep that’s a decent thing to take issue with. 
 

 

So you must have an issue with just about every poster here. :lol:

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35 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying? Erm yep that’s a decent thing to take issue with. 

He's just repeating rumors coming from a variety directions and trying to connect the dots in a (yes, sometimes imaginative) way. Lighten up! :) 

 

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38 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying? Erm yep that’s a decent thing to take issue with. 
 

 

At least stingers has the decency to quote and cut and paste links from two folk that

 "Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying?"

And then say just wondering, or one hears. And it's not even clear if he's making money?

 

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52 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Do they all run monetised blogs? 

No idea and don't care. If his writing annoys you so much leave it alone. Although I must admit it can be hard. I try to ignore the crap 4us spews out, but hard at times when it is so far out in left field he is lucky the world isn't flat.

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To be fair I don't quite get it why ya'll attacking @JALhazmat! He is right spot on with Magnus Wheatley. Magnus did try to slash down the INEOS TEAM UK Squad completely based out of the blue & out of unfounded claims their Morale was down which was nowhere near to be true.

And then after INEOS started winning in the Prada Cup Round Robin he did a completely 180 Degree Turn.

I tried to call Magnus out on that on his "Morale Down Blog Post" saying he should not write those things unless he has clear evidence of it.

The next Day I was booted from his Blog!

Bottom Line: You are only his friend as long as you don't critzise him but once you do he's showing you the door.

The guy can't take any critisism and I really wish he would stop his Blog and stop consistently pulling gossip!

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35 minutes ago, Gissie said:

No idea and don't care. If his writing annoys you so much leave it alone. Although I must admit it can be hard. I try to ignore the crap 4us spews out, but hard at times when it is so far out in left field he is lucky the world isn't flat.

It’s your tin foil hat, GD hating conspiracy theories that are out of left field! You don’t like GD. I get that, but to just be trolling spewing unsubstantiated, baseless shit about greed and not being Kiwi’s if they don’t defend in NZ, when you’ve been told time and time again that it isn’t is bullshit. Dalton has the achievements and the track record that proves he knows what the fuck he’s doing. He’s doing what he thinks is right for his team and the event. You may not like it, but youve never been as successful as Dalton is, so you are no where near qualified or credible, to be telling Dalts or Kiwi fans what Dalts and the team should or shouldn’t be doing.  You can say “they’re all liars” all you want, but until there is an actual lie, one proven to be one, not one you just say “he’s lying and I don’t believe him” and then insult me then say “fuck I love this place” I will call you out on your trolling accusations every time. That’s all it is… Trolling.

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

It’s your tin foil hat, GD hating conspiracy theories that are out of left field! You don’t like GD. I get that, but to just be trolling spewing unsubstantiated, baseless shit about greed and not being Kiwi’s if they don’t defend in NZ, when you’ve been told time and time again that it isn’t is bullshit. Dalton has the achievements and the track record that proves he knows what the fuck he’s doing. He’s doing what he thinks is right for his team and the event. You may not like it, but youve never been as successful as Dalton is, so you are no where near qualified or credible, to be telling Dalts or Kiwi fans what Dalts and the team should or shouldn’t be doing.  You can say “they’re all liars” all you want, but until there is an actual lie, one proven to be one, not one you just say “he’s lying and I don’t believe him” and then insult me then say “fuck I love this place” I will call you out on your trolling accusations every time. That’s all it is… Trolling.

You need to take a good, hard look in the mirror.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

It’s your tin foil hat, GD hating conspiracy theories that are out of left field! You don’t like GD. I get that, but to just be trolling spewing unsubstantiated, baseless shit about greed and not being Kiwi’s if they don’t defend in NZ, when you’ve been told time and time again that it isn’t is bullshit. Dalton has the achievements and the track record that proves he knows what the fuck he’s doing. He’s doing what he thinks is right for his team and the event. You may not like it, but youve never been as successful as Dalton is, so you are no where near qualified or credible, to be telling Dalts or Kiwi fans what Dalts and the team should or shouldn’t be doing.  You can say “they’re all liars” all you want, but until there is an actual lie, one proven to be one, not one you just say “he’s lying and I don’t believe him” and then insult me then say “fuck I love this place” I will call you out on your trolling accusations every time. That’s all it is… Trolling.

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

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46 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

Not true! For is pretty loyal to Team New Zealand and he is right: Grant Dalton will do whatever gives him & Team the best Chance for a 3-Peat which hasn't been done since the USA lost to Australia in 1983 and if that's taking the Cup offshore so be it. Every other Major Sports Team would do that. It is all about winning.

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12 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Not true! For is pretty loyal to Team New Zealand and he is right: Grant Dalton will do whatever gives him & Team the best Chance for a 3-Peat which hasn't been done since the USA lost to Australia in 1983 and if that's taking the Cup offshore so be it. Every other Major Sports Team would do that. It is all about winning.

shut up daniel you butt kisser. i used to like your posts and defend you when people attacked, now you're blathering has gotten quite tiresome.

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2 hours ago, bigrpowr said:

no, it's you. you are a self absorbed dick who for some reason can't see outside your own sand box. you do your countrymen no favors with your diatribe.

Self absorbed? Far from it! The only self absorbed dicks are the ones who come on here spouting baseless nonsense about greed and other bullshit they know isn’t true with no proof what so ever but they know gets a reaction from Kiwi’s on here, in other words… trolling. I’m just a passionate ETNZ fan which is more than can be said for the pussies on here that bag Team NZ every chance they get but don’t have the balls to back their own team. 
Grow a pair. 
we won and I hope it goes where ever Dalts wants it to including Jeddah. Fuck the haters and their excuses.

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1 hour ago, bigrpowr said:

shut up daniel you butt kisser. i used to like your posts and defend you when people attacked, now you're blathering has gotten quite tiresome.

Guess what… we won. Get the fuck over it.

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4 hours ago, accnick said:

You need to take a good, hard look in the mirror.

Why? I’m not the one spouting baseless, nonsense accusations of greed and turning their back on their country. You fuckers acting like you give a shit about NZ when we all you know you don’t. You’re trying so hard to put the boot into Dalts now because you know once the protocol is published and teams start entering, all this bullshit goes away. Who the hell cares where it’s held!? There’s nothing to see here. Dalts is doing what is best for his team and that’s all there is to it. So no, it’s you that needs to look in the mirror. Not me

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9 hours ago, barfy said:

At least stingers has the decency to quote and cut and paste links from two folk that

 "Repeatedly writing unsubstantiated shit to further his blog and earn money from lying?"

And then say just wondering, or one hears. And it's not even clear if he's making money?

 

So all the advertising just happens to appear for free does it? 

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13 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

To be fair I don't quite get it why ya'll attacking @JALhazmat! He is right spot on with Magnus Wheatley. Magnus did try to slash down the INEOS TEAM UK Squad completely based out of the blue & out of unfounded claims their Morale was down which was nowhere near to be true.

And then after INEOS started winning in the Prada Cup Round Robin he did a completely 180 Degree Turn.

I tried to call Magnus out on that on his "Morale Down Blog Post" saying he should not write those things unless he has clear evidence of it.

The next Day I was booted from his Blog!

Bottom Line: You are only his friend as long as you don't critzise him but once you do he's showing you the door.

The guy can't take any critisism and I really wish he would stop his Blog and stop consistently pulling gossip!

You were just as bad with your nonsense slagging off then cock sucking of INEOS only to have a tiff with Magnus that saw you booted. You deserve each other. 
 

although if MW doeshave lord Dalts  number I expect some a grade sucking up from 4 to scoop up the crumbs 

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15 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

So all the advertising just happens to appear for free does it? 

Maybe surprisingly, it actually is for free!

Supporters – Rule69.blog

The sailing and marine industry needs everyone to support as much as they can.

Rule69blog has a global audience. We charge precisely nothing for advertisers wishing to put a banner on the website. Rule69blog derives no income from advertisers. It’s just not what we are about. If you would like to display a banner, please just drop us a line and we’ll get your product or service up and out there as quick as we can.

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You waving his flag too? Tom will get jealous.. 

and well done you lifted that from his pandemic let’s help the marine industry post. Not his normal policy. 
 

the bit you left out? You know the pay me to keep writing crap donation section. Why did your cursor stop before that? 

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35 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

So all the advertising just happens to appear for free does it? 

You are the one who questioned this. I answered it for you... :)

 Why does there need to be some nefarious motivation going on now, on my part too? Chill :D I have f-all to do with any support MW or TE or anyone else may get.

 

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