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S2 7.9 - Exploding Daggerboard!


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So, over the last month the wife and I have noticed our boat seemed to be getting slower. Couldn't figure it out. Our bottom cleaner didn't tell us anything. It all came to a head last weekend when we finished a 22 mile race an hour and 15 minutes behind the first place boat. That winning boat was an S2 7.9 that walked away from us at the start. We dove the boat yesterday thinking it was just really dirty and discovered this.....

 

Keel1.thumb.jpg.c2ebc536edb4482faccc1946fbb11274.jpgKeel2.thumb.jpg.f832b23824fd469b41199fd25378dbb9.jpg

 

Any S2 7.9 owners/sailors out there in SA Land experienced this sort of catastrophic delamination of their daggerboards?  Just by the way the glass cracked off in mostly straight lines makes me think this was a failed repair?

I have a guy (Gouvernail, that's you!) who says he can rebuild it. But, wondering if searching for a used board somewhere be a more solid option?

Still kinda stunned at what we are looking at here.
 

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A 40-year-old foam daggerboard? Looks like about what one would expect. I would use a still-intact section of that to draw up plans for a complete new board, built using modern materials and techniques. The boat is good enough that the expense would be justified.

 

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28 minutes ago, Bitter Gnat said:

So, over the last month the wife and I have noticed our boat seemed to be getting slower. Couldn't figure it out. Our bottom cleaner didn't tell us anything. It all came to a head last weekend when we finished a 22 mile race an hour and 15 minutes behind the first place boat. That winning boat was an S2 7.9 that walked away from us at the start. We dove the boat yesterday thinking it was just really dirty and discovered this.....

 

Keel1.thumb.jpg.c2ebc536edb4482faccc1946fbb11274.jpgKeel2.thumb.jpg.f832b23824fd469b41199fd25378dbb9.jpg

 

Any S2 7.9 owners/sailors out there in SA Land experienced this sort of catastrophic delamination of their daggerboards?  Just by the way the glass cracked off in mostly straight lines makes me think this was a failed repair?

I have a guy (Gouvernail, that's you!) who says he can rebuild it. But, wondering if searching for a used board somewhere be a more solid option?

Still kinda stunned at what we are looking at here.
 

maybe check out the whaat boat is this rudder off thread

you don't have a PHRF out there do you ??

a little cutting, a little grinding, sum Buffing out And yer Good to Go !!

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So, what exactly is the problem?

;)

Repairing that board should not be difficult. It's parallel sides, yes? Use the intact upper part to make a mold for the lower half, make sure when you lay it out to do the actual reconstruction that the mold is aligned as perfectly as can be with the existing 'board.

The thing that would make it expensive & difficult is that it's heavy to move. Worth firguring out how to do it with minumum lifting and moving.

FB- Doug

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If that notch is the leading edge of the daggarboard, my guess is that you hit something solid at speed *hard*… like a submerged cargo container edge, and the blunt force impact sheared the outer covering off along that line of fracture which seems to originate at the notch, and peeled it down and off like a banana peel as the boat rode over the obstacle.

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1st Question:

What was the bottom cleaner using?

2nd Question:

How is it possible you only lost by 15 minutes in a 22 mile race (3hrs in a straight line at hull speed). Fix that shite and you will destroy your competition with no other improvements to your boat or sailing abilities.

3rd Question:

What did your competition do to your dagger board?

4th Question:

Your wife must have really good tits to distract you enough not to notice that you were pointing 10 degrees lower off of the starting line. Or once again the competition really sucks and they don't know how to point. WTF is the truth?

5th Question:

Where are the pictures of those superb tits? Please include pictures of your wife's ass if it's worth seeing.

 

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I’d send it to Fred (Gouvernail) It’ll be fixed correctly. If you can’t find a replacement. As Fred once told me. There’s only a finite amount of info concerning fiberglass and Fred knows all of it. 

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7 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

1st Question:

What was the bottom cleaner using?

2nd Question:

You only lost by 15 minutes in a 22 mile race (3hrs in a straight line at hull speed). Fix that shite and you will destroy your competition with no other improvements to your boat or sailing abilities.

3rd Question:

What did your competition do to your dagger board?

4th Question:

Your wife must have really good tits to distract you enough not to notice that you were pointing 10 degrees lower off of the starting line. Or once again the competition really sucks and they don't know how to point. WTF is the truth?

5th Question:

Where are the pictures of those superb tits? Please include pictures of your wife's ass if it's worth seeing.

 

Dude, grow the fuck up. 

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My diver emails photos from under the boat to prove he did the work and he does this with all his customers. I have had divers that are more adept at billing than actually scrubbing the boat. When things like this turn up, you wonder if the diver was even under the boat.

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8 minutes ago, Captain Bastard said:

My diver emails photos from under the boat to prove he did the work and he does this with all his customers. I have had divers that are more adept at billing than actually scrubbing the boat. When things like this turn up, you wonder if the diver was even under the boat.

Was the centreboard retracted when the bottom was scrubbed?  I used to have the swing keel up on the mooring to minimise growth ...

Agree that there is much silverware in your future when this is fixed!

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Bottom was clean. Good divers are hard to find in these parts. I like our guy. Just don't think he understands sailboats.

Funny thing is we never noticed a pointing problem. Just slow. Really slow.

I've been floating around SA since close to the beginning. I, as well as my wife, laughed at the tit request. Guess we need to grow up too.

We lost by 1 Hour and 15 minutes. The dude that won the race was Jeff Progelhof. Current J22 World Champion skipper. So, I think we will still have our work cut out for us once we get this all figured out.

Fred has been contacted.

 

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She is kept on a dock. Board down. 

The board was perfect when we put her in the water a year ago.  We never hit anything in that time. I imagine it would be a huge noticeable bump to do that kind of damage. The board always moved up and down in the box while sailing with no problems. Although that may explain how the glass was ripped off in such straight lines.

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6 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Bottom was clean. Good divers are hard to find in these parts. I like our guy. Just don't think he understands sailboats.

 

interesting mystery. I find it hard to believe he could have missed it if it looked like that, that either happened during sailing or during heavy weather while docked.

 

Maybe it was just a crack at first, water got in over time and it peeled off like an onion under sail. 

My feeling is that a lifiting daggerboard of this size is not common, and the casing movement might have cause wear over the years.

 

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6 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

The board always moved up and down in the box while sailing with no problems

Why would you move it while sailing?

Did you lift it downwind?

That's not recommended for safety reasons although some cheats do it anyway.

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11 minutes ago, random. said:

Why would you move it while sailing?

Did you lift it downwind?

That's not recommended for safety reasons although some cheats do it anyway.

Careful how you throw “cheat” around.  Nothing wrong with it depending on your local rules.

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9 minutes ago, sailman said:

Careful how you throw “cheat” around.  Nothing wrong with it depending on your local rules.

What local rules allow lifting the board?

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16 minutes ago, random. said:

What local rules allow lifting the board?

same as lifting the rudder....

or let me ask you this way: is there any rule that bans moving apendages? Is there a rule that allows canting the keel but lifting it is prohibited?

 

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8 minutes ago, M26 said:

same as lifting the rudder....

In a passage race in a 7.8m trailer-bailer.

The rules were that the centerboard had to be locked down.

Traversing a narrow shallow section with only one identical boat 50m in front of us, symmetrical kites up.

Said to the crew "Let's follow him, if he makes it we will.  Watch him."

SUDDEN STOP AND ROUND UP KITE FLOGGING BOAT ON ITS EAR!

The 'other boat' sailed on even closer to the shallows than we were.

They lifted the board, we stuck to the rules naively thinking that they were doing the same.

Some sailors are fucking cheats.

 

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17 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Ignore the village idiot. The 7.9 class specifically allows lifting the board while sailing. It’s rule 2.10 in the class rules. 

That's s awesome.

Eliminate cheating by making it a rule!  Farking hell let's all compromise the righting moment of our boats together shall we?

Life jackets on ... all together now ....

Ok, that's alright then.

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1 hour ago, random. said:

In a passage race in a 7.8m trailer-bailer.

The rules were that the centerboard had to be locked down.

Traversing a narrow shallow section with only one identical boat 50m in front of us, symmetrical kites up.

Said to the crew "Let's follow him, if he makes it we will.  Watch him."

SUDDEN STOP AND ROUND UP KITE FLOGGING BOAT ON ITS EAR!

The 'other boat' sailed on even closer to the shallows than we were.

They lifted the board, we stuck to the rules naively thinking that they were doing the same.

Some sailors are fucking cheats.

 

Every phrf organization out there knows S2 7.9s have lifting centerboards. The boat also has almost 1000# of internal ballast. Lake Michigan phrf is the only organization I'm aware of that says board down all the time. 

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1 minute ago, eerie sailor said:

Every phrf organization out there knows S2 7.9s have lifting centerboards. The boat also has almost 1000# of internal ballast. Lake Michigan phrf is the only organization I'm aware of that says board down all the time. 

Kool with that.

Might work on lakes but they can get wild sometimes too.

Where I sail in Oz, it's not recommended or even allowed.

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10 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Foam filler over lead. So, a bit more complicated I imagine?

Ummmm, freezing? Water in blade, a few freeze cycles cracking/shearing the glass work and delaming from lead.
I think the question is, when this first happened, did you not hear a sort of loud BANG as it all started to go south?

Best of luck with it.
Wait, Lake Hubbard Michigan or Lake Hubbard Texas? I guess if it is the latter the freezing bit is far less likely.

And pay no attention to Randummy., there is so much he thinks he knows...... but doesn't.

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I don't know Fred personally, but I am sure that is a solid route to go. As others suggested, you can do it yourself, but unless you have a ton of fiberglass experience, it will require a lot of learning: you need to fill in the gaps, have the new part bond to the old (if that is still in good shape, at least) and somehow end up with the right shape. I have messed way too much with epoxy, glass, and fillers, and I know it would take me a long time to get this right. It is not impossible, but if you would like to go sailing anytime soon, I would ask a professional like Fred.

I am sure you posted on the class site as well. You might be lucky to find one that is in good shape, but me thinks that those will be hard to come by.

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Great. Went to bed just a normal guy looking for advice and woke up a cheater. 

Lake Ray Hubbard in Texas. We had a hell of a freeze back in Feb, but the lake never froze over.

No way would I try to fix this myself. Leaving it to the professionals. My wife (aside from having great tits) makes good money. So, all good there!

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See some board damage before, mine to be exact.

Never see one with this much damage before.

Going to dive on mine this week after seeing this.

I raise the board and rudder at the dock,

The class rule has always allowed the board to be raised downwind. The boats are rated in PHRF as such.

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12 hours ago, Rouxfus said:

If that notch is the leading edge of the daggarboard, my guess is that you hit something solid at speed *hard*… like a submerged cargo container edge, and the blunt force impact sheared the outer covering off along that line of fracture which seems to originate at the notch, and peeled it down and off like a banana peel as the boat rode over the obstacle.

he's on a lake, if he hit anything, it would be slimy mud.     and why not the guys fixen boats just to the east of you?

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11 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Bottom was clean. Good divers are hard to find in these parts. I like our guy. Just don't think he understands sailboats.

Funny thing is we never noticed a pointing problem. Just slow. Really slow.

I've been floating around SA since close to the beginning. I, as well as my wife, laughed at the tit request. Guess we need to grow up too.

We lost by 1 Hour and 15 minutes. The dude that won the race was Jeff Progelhof. Current J22 World Champion skipper. So, I think we will still have our work cut out for us once we get this all figured out.

Fred has been contacted.

 

you weren't birthed at sapphire bay when everything went tits up?

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1 hour ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Great. Went to bed just a normal guy looking for advice and woke up a cheater. 

Lake Ray Hubbard in Texas. We had a hell of a freeze back in Feb, but the lake never froze over.

No way would I try to fix this myself. Leaving it to the professionals. My wife (aside from having great tits) makes good money. So, all good there!

right coast facing the dam or facing I-30

 

Never mind I just paid attention to the background 

 

also this https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/s2-7-9-hull-421-2/

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The part of the leading edge of the board that meets the opening in the hull is a standard maintenance point for an S2 7.9. Depending on how often you raise the board, it could need to be maintenanced once per year. If left unattended for long periods of time, that notch will grow and end up with your current result. You may want to contact S2 Yachts for guidance on the repair/rebuild and once it is right, be sure to look at it once per year.

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31 minutes ago, Crime Scene said:

The part of the leading edge of the board that meets the opening in the hull is a standard maintenance point for an S2 7.9. Depending on how often you raise the board, it could need to be maintenanced once per year. If left unattended for long periods of time, that notch will grow and end up with your current result. You may want to contact S2 Yachts for guidance on the repair/rebuild and once it is right, be sure to look at it once per year.

Pretty sure S2/Tiara is Tango Uniform.  I did some work with Eric years ago, you couldn't find a nicer guy and left us way too soon.

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2 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

I would fire your diver then slap him for not saying anything 

Yep, but only after he asks if the diver saw anything and if he did why he did not report it. It's possible the diver does not have BG's phone, email etc.

Or maybe the diver saw the damage and thought "He has to know about this. Anybody who hits something that hard has to take a look for damage. I don't need to mention it and cause further embarrassment"

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Eric Schlageter was a great guy. Sailed with and against him in SD for many years. He should still be with us. 

Boat is at the one true RCYC. Not that smaller club up on the other side of the northern border wall.

S2 side of Tiara is mostly dead. Luckily, I can get a template kit from Computer Keels.

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14 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

So, over the last month the wife and I have noticed our boat seemed to be getting slower. Couldn't figure it out. Our bottom cleaner didn't tell us anything. It all came to a head last weekend when we finished a 22 mile race an hour and 15 minutes behind the first place boat. That winning boat was an S2 7.9 that walked away from us at the start. We dove the boat yesterday thinking it was just really dirty and discovered this.....

 

Keel1.thumb.jpg.c2ebc536edb4482faccc1946fbb11274.jpgKeel2.thumb.jpg.f832b23824fd469b41199fd25378dbb9.jpg

 

Any S2 7.9 owners/sailors out there in SA Land experienced this sort of catastrophic delamination of their daggerboards?  Just by the way the glass cracked off in mostly straight lines makes me think this was a failed repair?

I have a guy (Gouvernail, that's you!) who says he can rebuild it. But, wondering if searching for a used board somewhere be a more solid option?

Still kinda stunned at what we are looking at here.
 

A very common method of damaging these boards is to not have them all the way down.  I.e. - we drop ours the last 2 feet to wedge it hard into the 'down' position.  If you don't do that, it's possible for the board to move some in the trunk and damage the trailing edge against the trailing edge of the dagger board trunk.  I'd take a look at your boat and see if that trailing edge of the trunk has been damaged.  This can allow water ingress to the board.

Another common way for these to fail is for the top surface (the very top horizontal surface) to allow water ingress.  Over time, water gets into the board, and then the freeze / thaw cycle can delam them and them to fail.  I've them do that twice, though never to this degree.  And neither failure was quick - they looked like they had taken years of not being paid attention to.

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13 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Although that may explain how the glass was ripped off in such straight lines.

If the outer layers were double bias cloth (fibers at +/- 45 to the vertical axis) that could explain the failure in a straight line.

The blisters in the green (foam?) sure indicate long term water intrusion

 

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We would be glad to fix it. Obviously we need the keel. Process, would foam the lead in a box mold using 15 pound foam. Then re shape, laminate and post finish. Picture lead core surfboard. 
we see a lot of failures when things cycle freeze thaw. 

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You may want to check with the class association as they may know of a board that could be laying around.  Nationals are in Holland next week.  You better bet that i'm going to dive and inspect the shit out of mine before i put it on the trailer.

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5 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Great. Went to bed just a normal guy looking for advice and woke up a cheater. 

Lake Ray Hubbard in Texas. We had a hell of a freeze back in Feb, but the lake never froze over.

No way would I try to fix this myself. Leaving it to the professionals. My wife (aside from having great tits) makes good money. So, all good there!

Depends where on the lake. I had to repeatedly break 3 - 4" ice encapsulating the boat at Captains Cove.

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14 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

Bottom was clean. Good divers are hard to find in these parts. I like our guy. Just don't think he understands sailboats.

Funny thing is we never noticed a pointing problem. Just slow. Really slow.

I've been floating around SA since close to the beginning. I, as well as my wife, laughed at the tit request. Guess we need to grow up too.

We lost by 1 Hour and 15 minutes. The dude that won the race was Jeff Progelhof. Current J22 World Champion skipper. So, I think we will still have our work cut out for us once we get this all figured out.

Fred has been contacted.

 

You ever comin back to DAGO ?

haven't seen Pop's since he moved to Better Weather & More Parties

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7 hours ago, random. said:

What local rules allow lifting the board?

The boat has been sailing with a lifting dagger board since it's inception.   It is explicitly allowed in class racing, and there is no rule explicitly states you can't lift it in handicap racing.  That is the way it has been rated in every handicap system.  It is no different than Tartans with centerboards, or any other boat that has a feature like that:  the handicap accounts for it.  This is not a lifting keel designed to only lift for transport.  It is a lifting key designed to be raced up or down.

This question has been asked and answered dozens of times, and most always raised by people who hear about and suddenly scream "that's not fair"  and want to decide that THAT'S why they got beat on the race course.  The fact remains, arbitrarily applying a non-existent rule to prevent lifting the keel would be a random penalization to a boat that's already been rated with the ability to lift it.  It's just stupid.

If you weren't such a shit-stirring twat, you could have done a search and found that out yourself without the obvious accusations.

 

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Hey Dennis. Moving back to SD is beyond our means at the moment, besides we are having too much fun here. Can't you tell?

Cliffy is still living the life in Lake Havasu. He was supposed to come out to SDYC for Opening Day, but had a Pickle Ball tournament!

The wife & I will be heading your way for the Women's Invitational in February. We will see you at Fiddlers!

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2 hours ago, dfw_sailor said:

Depends where on the lake. I had to repeatedly break 3 - 4" ice encapsulating the boat at Captains Cove.

She was in the water on A Dock at RCYC. It's about 35 feet deep there.  The damage to the keel would have been about two feet or more down. 

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9 minutes ago, Bitter Gnat said:

She was in the water on A Dock at RCYC. It's about 35 feet deep there.  The damage to the keel would have been about two feet or more down. 

could a keel with water stored in Up position in Freezing weather freeze said water

w/o freezing the Pond ??

I shall be the 1st to admit I know Nothing about actual Kold

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Fill a tray to almost the top with water and put in the freezer overnight. It will have expanded and frozen over the top. Do that with a compromised closed cell foam and ‘glass skin structure and the accumulated water will do the same under 32degrees. 
 

Improperly winterized engine blocks crack if they are not filled with antifreeze for the winter months in colder climes.

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Yup. Water expands when it freezes. 

But, expanding on what I've said above, the boat was in a deep water slip with the board all the way down. The bottom of the boat is 14 inches from the water line. The damage begins at least six inches below the point where the board exits the boat. Our lake does not freeze over. 

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BN, I’ve re-skinned more than one rudder where the outer skin has delaminated mid race due to water pressure across the blade. A small point of damage to the board may have loaded it up with water. When at hull speed, the water in your board takes a huge pressure load and a wet board will work to pull the entire sheet of ‘glass off of the side with negative pressure to equalize the pressure difference.

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The keel was all the way up when we retrieved the boat on a ramp. The crane was used to lift the board out of the boat while the boat was on the trailer. So, no, the crane did not do this.

Also, as stated above, we dove the boat while we were rafted up on the lake with friends and discovered the damage then. So...

Here's a little tidbit that helps with what Sail4beer says above. I crawled under the boat today and inspected the hull where the board exits. It is clean and shows no scratches or gouges that would more than likely be there if the repeated lifting and dropping of the board was the reason for the peeling off of the skin. In fact the bottom paint looks perfect all around the board groove.

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3 hours ago, Bitter Gnat said:

The keel was all the way up when we retrieved the boat on a ramp. The crane was used to lift the board out of the boat while the boat was on the trailer. So, no, the crane did not do this.

Also, as stated above, we dove the boat while we were rafted up on the lake with friends and discovered the damage then. So...

Here's a little tidbit that helps with what Sail4beer says above. I crawled under the boat today and inspected the hull where the board exits. It is clean and shows no scratches or gouges that would more than likely be there if the repeated lifting and dropping of the board was the reason for the peeling off of the skin. In fact the bottom paint looks perfect all around the board groove.

 How's the top look, especially where the tang goes through? 

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As I said I recognized RCYC too late after my post, edited to correct the post. Last time I was there someone hatching a plan for golf balls made out of pill gel and fish food. The thought was the balls could be hit into a body of water, dissolve and attract fish. I am pretty sure they had a press to make the balls but that was as far as it got to my knowledge, we might have been drunk as well.

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The 7.9 class assoc page has a template for the measurements of the board . . 

might as well go for class legal 

APPENDIX  B: S2  7.9  Class  Association  Rules DAGGERBOARD AND RUDDER SPECIFICATIONS B1.  DAGGERBOARD PLAN 19 9-2-2021

And furthermore . . around here we can get indoor heated winter storage for around $ 650. 

Why would you not do that ???? 

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21 hours ago, random. said:

What local rules allow lifting the board?

 

13 hours ago, Grrr... said:

The boat has been sailing with a lifting dagger board since it's inception.   It is explicitly allowed in class racing, and there is no rule explicitly states you can't lift it in handicap racing.  That is the way it has been rated in every handicap system.  It is no different than Tartans with centerboards, or any other boat that has a feature like that:  the handicap accounts for it.  This is not a lifting keel designed to only lift for transport.  It is a lifting key designed to be raced up or down.

This question has been asked and answered dozens of times, and most always raised by people who hear about and suddenly scream "that's not fair"  and want to decide that THAT'S why they got beat on the race course.  The fact remains, arbitrarily applying a non-existent rule to prevent lifting the keel would be a random penalization to a boat that's already been rated with the ability to lift it.  It's just stupid.

If you weren't such a shit-stirring twat, you could have done a search and found that out yourself without the obvious accusations.

 

The boat was designed to MORC.  MORC has/had a stability requirement that is performed with the boards up.  The 7.9 passed the test.  On a side note the Kiwi35 failed; but that's a long story.  The boat is more stable with the board locked down and there have been regattas that have required the board be locked down on a case by case basis.

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From the S2 7.9 manufacturer: "The 7.9 is self righting even with the keel fully retracted. There is ballast in the bilge...  One of the reasons that the (keel) lifting plate is such a massive structure is to keep the centerboard (sic) captive, should the boat roll completely over. This happened once on the West Coast shortly after the 7.9 was introduced. Several boats were lost in this storm. A 7.9 pitch-poled, and those on board heard the centerboard slam from full down to full up, and back down again. This same boat was on display at a boat show shortly after, and the sailors' testimonies were directly credited for the sale of a few 7.9's."

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4 hours ago, pasta514 said:

 

The boat was designed to MORC.  MORC has/had a stability requirement that is performed with the boards up.  The 7.9 passed the test.  On a side note the Kiwi35 failed; but that's a long story.  The boat is more stable with the board locked down and there have been regattas that have required the board be locked down on a case by case basis.

Did they come with a way to pin the board down or is that something that has to be added?

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AFAIK The boat was in Annapolis for a while. Then it was dry sailed in the Houston area. We purchased it in July of 2020. It went straight into our local boat shop and got bottom paint slapped on it. I'm now thinking that because the shop couldn't lift the boat up enough to drop the board all the way down, it may have had some cracks up high (likely caused by freezing, although the board never swelled enough to hinder the up and down through the slot). And like Sail4beer says above, those cracks precipitated the failure. End of story.

Thanks for the input. Don't you fret none. I'm going to keep y'all updated on the rebuild. 

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Read through this thread, 

 

We are human and screw up lots more than we admit...at least the OP is not a killer...and should check stuff when odd mess happen...

Being a sailor, and being that slow should have flagged the OP, but I procrastinate too... 

To me, fix per specs, if specific, is the real problem...what happened teaches...so let us know...

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I had a repair done on my board in 99, when a large crack appeared. Diver alerted me.

Looking at this brake closely I believe there was a repair done before and it gave way.

Fiberglass doesn't break that straight.

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7 hours ago, pasta514 said:

The boat is more stable with the board locked down and there have been regattas that have required the board be locked down on a case by case basis.

Yeah, and pretty sure that Charleston area PHRF had or has a rule that boards/keels cannot be lifted if they weigh more than 10% of the boat's weight. 

May have been done to get at the 7.9's 

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On 9/6/2021 at 7:11 PM, Rouxfus said:

If that notch is the leading edge of the daggarboard, my guess is that you hit something solid at speed *hard*… like a submerged cargo container edge, and the blunt force impact sheared the outer covering off along that line of fracture which seems to originate at the notch, and peeled it down and off like a banana peel as the boat rode over the obstacle.

Agreed. That "notch" looks like an impact mark and the rest is just a result of that. I would also check the trailing edge of the keel box for damage... 

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Yeah, and pretty sure that Charleston area PHRF had or has a rule that boards/keels cannot be lifted if they weigh more than 10% of the boat's weight. 

May have been done to get at the 7.9's 

Rules like that are often flung about but not actually to be found in the rule book. Nor IMHO are they enforceable, unless carefully written. When I raced a Santana 23D, a couple of different PHRF committees gave me shit about the daggerboard, but it turned out that either the "rule" they were trying to quote was entirely absent, or did not say what they thought it said.

FB- Doug

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37 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Yeah, and pretty sure that Charleston area PHRF had or has a rule that boards/keels cannot be lifted if they weigh more than 10% of the boat's weight. 

May have been done to get at the 7.9's 

Lake Michigan PHRF also requires boards to be in the down position while racing.

Wayzata Yacht Club has a fleet of ~8 racing one design. We also have milfoil, which requires running the board to dump weeds, even on the upwind. Downwind in 20+ with the board up can be exciting. As others have mentioned, we have broached with the board up, and the internal ballast  does it's job and brings the boat back up once the kite is attended to....

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2 hours ago, dyslexic dog said:

I always kept my keel retracted at the dock

Honestly true confessions . . . 

I used to take pride in being able to winch the board up more easily than my younger crew. 

Not any more . .  father time caught up with me. 

Still really enjoy the boat, but do not race it much. Crew for others sometimes. 

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46 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Honestly true confessions . . . 

I used to take pride in being able to winch the board up more easily than my younger crew. 

Not any more . .  father time caught up with me. 

Still really enjoy the boat, but do not race it much. Crew for others sometimes. 

I ended up with rotator cup surgery. Yep

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We always kept ours on the trailer, so we had to winch it down and winch it up after every sail.  It became a couple job, her tailing and me grinding.  It was also at this time that I grew my love (Sarcasm intended) for very heavy outboards hanging far down the transom mount. 

All that done, the boat sailed super great, I hated to see her go, but she was so water and sand logged, our really potent 3/4 ton Suburban had issues pulling her.  (That was after a pretty serious tow truck had to winch her out of the sand).  Insurance paid for her and they have whatever is left.  

Love Hurricanes.  (More sarcasm intended) Thought she was high, dry and well tied down.  The  surf crashing over the seawall, washed the ground underneath her trailer.  And that was that.  (As well as her twin sitting right next to her.)   

Still, the Kirste Family had a lot of fun sailing on that boat

B1B4B935-1A91-4A04-9C41-E884715AF8E6.jpeg

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On 9/7/2021 at 5:40 AM, sailman said:

Careful how you throw “cheat” around.  Nothing wrong with it depending on your local rules.

Now that's the Pot calling the Kettle black

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On 9/7/2021 at 8:57 PM, random. said:

Kool with that.

Might work on lakes but they can get wild sometimes too.

Where I sail in Oz, it's not recommended or even allowed.

We lift boards in SA. Specific classes like sport boats are not allowed because their design requires them to be down. I've got an 8m Kiwi Trailer that loves to have its board up. Who specifically doesn't allow it in your puddle?

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