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spray vs roll bottom paint job


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I need reality check,  in more ways than one, but I am being quoted a $1,200 difference between spraying and rolling 2 coats on a 30 foot boat.  The boat was previously sprayed 3 years ago and lives in the water with monthly to semi-monthly scrubbing. Seem about right?

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which way is the price difference

there are a few factors why there might be a difference to industrial painters

 

wages v materials v plant v required site services v transport v setup time

spraying takes less time and generally uses less paint

spraying needs to have some things masked up before starting ( including )

how close the next boat / object is for overspray so how much curtaining needs to be hung

type of spray system governs how much float / overspray is produced ( airless then hvlp then the old fashioned some still use hplv )

wages for a roller hand and a spray hand are different

cost and time to set up the spray gear and clean it are  longer and higher and takes the same time no matter the size of the boat / job

transport costs for the spray gear are higher .. esp if they have to supply the air to wherever the boat is

 

need info on where it is how big the project is ( hull / hull and decks / internal compartments )

what onsite services are available

what position the boat is in

how much is around it

what spray system the contractor uses

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More costly for spraying.  I was looking at my previous cost for spraying the bottom in 2018 vs 2021 prices there has been a 26% increase in cost.  Looking now at around $120 per foot for haul, prep, and spraying (2 coats)in the yard. I understand spraying takes more skill and more prep work as well new environmental procedures etc. I was just trying to figure out is the price difference  reasonable.  Lowest published prices in my area I could find are around $105 per foot for two coats sprayed. I am not knocking the pros, I know it is skilled, hard, and dirty work.  

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if you are just doing the bottom or hull

i would seriously consider doing it yourself

it doesn't take long to learn how to spray even if it takes you 4 coats to build up to a flat surface

if you can do the math work out exactly how much surface area you need to spray and then exactly how much paint that requires ( simpsons approximation is best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvgSF8k-pxoby   but a educated measure and guess oof the area will be close enough and the grms per sq mtr will be on the can )                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               watching the container after your first mist coat ( 1 pass )  you can easily work out how much more is needed to use the rest of the paint onto the surface

 

 a 30 foot boat bottom in 13-17c temps shouldn't be a worry for the mist coat to go off before you do the built and finish passes ( a pro does them all in one area then moves to the next ) .. learners should do them separately so as  to learn how much each coat needs

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Here in good ole California it is getting harder and harder to find yards that will let you do your own bottom work.  Environmental containment, storm water and other issues make it more difficult for the DIY'r around here.  I know of only two in the bay area but there are probably more which are not that close to my boat.  Time is money they say.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTX-ik_8i-k

a better explanation

or the rough method

you know the length of the boat

you know the depth of the boat

 

stand back and picture a rectangle that covers the length and depth ... how much of that rectangle is missing ( 20% 50% etc )

work out the area of the rectangle ( 30 foot x depth ) take off your estimation of how much is missing add some for the curvature

or measure the depth of the boat with a tape measure going around the curve so keeping it flat on the surface and use that as the depth it will take out most of the curvature addition

thats close enough for the purposes of how much paint to use ( + plus or minus 20% of the paint thickness recommended should be well within tolerance before sagging or slipping )

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2 hours ago, phill_nz said:

spraying takes less time and generally uses less paint

Other way around. Overspray is a thing.

From Interlux Micron CSC: 8L of paint for a 10m fin keel racing sailboat if sprayed, 5.5L if rolled. 45% more.

https://www.interlux.com/en/us/support/boat-painting-tips/how-much-antifouling-paint-do-i-need

Average expected coverage of  InterProtect 2000E  is 60 sq. ft. per gallon kit when brushing or rolling and 45 sq ft per gallon kit when spraying

 

Add in the extra prep (tenting off topsides and maybe around the boat), extra skill of painter, thinners and time to clean the gun, etc etc.

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yes overspray is a thing

hence you should use lphv and airless ( and even electrostatic )

the amount used is a lot less and esp with electro almost no drift or overspray

i would hazard that those figures are based on worst case hplv spraying

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I roll my hard paint (Trinidad 75).

I use a quality mohair 3/16" nap for 2 coats thinned 10%  (about a gallon total on a 32 footer).

extra paint applied to water line and foils.

Stand pads are done the next day in a couple hours.

Third day I use a random orbital sander with Mirka 320 grit grids on a shop vac to lightly sand it.

Just have to be careful not to burn through the paint else you will have to patch it.

Smooth as a baby's bottom.

A bit more work than spraying, but I am abiding by yard rules.

$350 total

 

I find if you ask for a rolled bottom paint job by the yard, they usually are going to use some crap 3/8" rollers and just slap the stuff on in 1 coat as for most boaters, that is good enough.

With a spray job, they understand you are looking for better and take more time. But that extra effort costs money.

 

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14 hours ago, B dock said:

I need reality check,  in more ways than one, but I am being quoted a $1,200 difference between spraying and rolling 2 coats on a 30 foot boat.  The boat was previously sprayed 3 years ago and lives in the water with monthly to semi-monthly scrubbing. Seem about right?

With spray , you can antifoul your bottom , with the correct film thickness …in one day 

roller takes two days..two coats 

Spray wastes  perhaps 30 percent of the paint in overspray 

with spray the painter , his gun , must be pointed perpendicular to the surface … 90 degrees.. this may require a work platform for the painter 

in the end it’s up to you 

I prefer spray …airless .. better finish and better film thickness 

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Not mentioned is roll and tip. I've done Trinidad Sr rolling with a 3/16 nap roller, then tipping off. The result is noticeably smoother than the roller alone. You have to work quickly if alone, and thin a bit to keep it from flashing off too fast if it is at all warm. Even with spray, you going to get some orange peel texture. 

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24 minutes ago, DDW said:

Not mentioned is roll and tip. I've done Trinidad Sr rolling with a 3/16 nap roller, then tipping off. The result is noticeably smoother than the roller alone. You have to work quickly if alone, and thin a bit to keep it from flashing off too fast if it is at all warm. Even with spray, you going to get some orange peel texture. 

Airless spray does indeed leave a little orange peel ..a very acceptable finish for all but the gran prix race gang 

the reason shipyards prefer airless spray is that they can complete the antifoul now .. in one shoot 

roll requires the paint to dry .. one coat today , second tomorrow …

if it rains tomorrow you loose 

if it’s a holiday the next day you loose again 

and .. here comes the weekend 

shipyards don’t like spring time pile ups and missed launch schedules 

 

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This little beauty just showed up in my local Lowes store from 3M.

In fact it is not even on their web site yet.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00051160/

 

 

After I dove my boat last week with to wipe it down, I used this with some 400 wet sandpaper.

First light stroke had a bit of friction from the original 320 sanding on the hard.

2nd stroke confirmed the bottom was perfect.

I wear gloves with little nubs that make most bottom paint feel like concrete.

after that 1st pass, it was as smooth as the topsides paint.

The handle is can be rotated to 8 positions to where it feels right in your hand and your stroke of the hull

Big ergonomic handle does not tire your hand.

If you drop it, it will slowly float to the surface.

Only issue is trying to keep the paper in the jaws as they do not use any teeth in the jaws.  They sell it with a piece of sandpaper on the 8" bias.  it will slip out. Even if you put 2 pieces like that in there it will slip.  But if you cut your paper on the longer 11" bias and crumple the ends, it works just fine.

I keep some spare strips in the bucket attached to the boat.  Changing the paper while in the water is a 20 second task.

 

For in water polishing your keel, rudder, or even the whole boat (only takes 40 mins), this baby is the cat's meow and at 400 grit takes just about nothing off the bottom paint but any roughness.  You see nothing in the water and I used red bottom paint.   

I have tried just about every handle and pad for scrubbing boat bottoms, pools, sanding wood etc over the past 20 years.  Even built my own.  This is the best so far for doing a "regatta polish".

I think it was $9.

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On 9/7/2021 at 9:23 PM, B dock said:

Here in good ole California it is getting harder and harder to find yards that will let you do your own bottom work.  Environmental containment, storm water and other issues make it more difficult for the DIY'r around here.  I know of only two in the bay area but there are probably more which are not that close to my boat.  Time is money they say.

I would be very surprised if any near the water yards would let any customers spray.... 

 

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My cans of Micron CSC say right on the label "Not for spray application".

All the bottom paint I've ever used was so thick it would have to be thinned several hundred percent or you'd need a tip the size of a garden hose to spray it.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

My cans of Micron CSC say right on the label "Not for spray application".

All the bottom paint I've ever used was so thick it would have to be thinned several hundred percent or you'd need a tip the size of a garden hose to spray it.

Perhaps they mean ….not for amateur spray application 

airless is mostly used , only the race boats use spray 

with the correct tip on a gun you can easily spray antifoul 

 

https://www.international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Micron_CSC_HS_eng_usa_A4_20110810.pdf

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So assuming I can spray the bottom paint smoothly, what do I do about the orange peely rolled on coat from last year? Do I sand it smooth then paint the new products? 

Should I sand the new paint to remove any orange peel in the new coating? This is for club racing and I really feel like the boat was sluggish this year and that it is related to the paint so I want to do a good job.

Dan 

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

So assuming I can spray the bottom paint smoothly, what do I do about the orange peely rolled on coat from last year? Do I sand it smooth then paint the new products? 

Should I sand the new paint to remove any orange peel in the new coating? This is for club racing and I really feel like the boat was sluggish this year and that it is related to the paint so I want to do a good job.

Dan 

Before you recoat  you always sand to promote adhesion, remove wasted antifoul and smooth the surface 

wet and dry 80 grit on a push stick .. like a dry wall sanding stick …is the typical way to sand

the bottom will be very smooth 

B9AB4603-A35B-4F28-94F0-CD79EC63C07A.jpeg

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1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

Before you recoat  you always sand to promote adhesion, remove wasted antifoul and smooth the surface 

wet and dry 80 grit on a push stick .. like a dry wall sanding stick …is the typical way to sand

the bottom will be very smooth 

B9AB4603-A35B-4F28-94F0-CD79EC63C07A.jpeg

Been using sanding poles for years and it's the ONLY way to go.  Best with 2 people, one to sand, one to spray.  Also, we always try to sand down through the old antifoul to avoid buildup.  Usually start with 80 grit on a 16" orbital air file, then 120 or so.  After new paint has dried, wetsanding w/ 220, 320, 400....etc.  We are a race boat and go through this every other year with out Baltoplate (regular cleaning throughout the season)

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Yah ,two man gang 

80 or 60 grit ..always fresh paper, razor sharp 

fine paper doesn’t work with the stick, to much friction 

After sanding is completed remember to carefully soap and water wash the bottom to remove all residue 

after the wash you should be able to run your hand on the dry bottom and pick up no colored residue 

and buy the highest quality sanding stick you can find 

the cheap plastic ones rapidly  self destruct 

one normal length stick and one stubby stick  for working in the keel pit 

9243A8BF-2031-4D9A-BE5B-048A52EA0E26.png

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