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Unemployment or Vaccination ... Your Call.


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6 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Y'all still taking the troll seriously, complete waste of time, just ignore her shit. She is not only clueless, but simply prods and questions for the pleasure of a reaction. She gets a little thrill every time someone takes her bait. Don't feed the troll.

OI! KSFB is NOT female.

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3 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:
On 9/21/2021 at 5:07 PM, ShortForBob said:
On 9/21/2021 at 3:22 PM, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:
Expand  

In that context?

You know who that is right?

Expand  

I don't know who the fake blonde is.

There should be no coercion to get jabbed with anything to keep your job.

 

ldc.jpg

Here Here!

I don't "get" why some are anti vax but that doesn't make them any less a person AFAIC.

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11 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

That's a good question. If you're stupid enough to pay attention to the social media troll farms who seem to be working overtime the last month then the whole country is being victimised, oppressed and is burning to the ground.

In reality, we did a quick straw poll over a few hundred people in our circle of associates, this to date has resulted in one anti-vax couple , that's my SIL and husband. They belong to a religion that thinks women should be barefoot and pregnant though, so not surprising. 

Everyone has a bitch about wearing masks as they catch glasses/ earrings etc, but that's just bitching. Sans the odd outlier, everyone is wearing masks , using apps to geo-locate at every shop or business and hand sanitisers are at every facility. I have not met nor heard of any anti vax idiots pressuring people.

We're holding on a 7 day average of about one new case every 24 hours. 

 

 

    

So that's basically the same as here, but Here is a 5 mi circle....  The way our state is set up is 80% of the pop is on the front range(Basically where the wagon trains looked at the mountains and said fuck that)...  The rest is in the sticks..  Out there nada really, and in the cities, well you have the 30-40% that are fucking it up for the rest of us.   I think there are 2 within my social circle as well...  

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I dont understand all this angst.

Some employers will hire unvaccinated people. Many will not. Except in circumstances where it is mandated for safety reasons, it should be the choice of the employer.  

As long as the employer is not discriminating on the basis of race, gender, religion, disability etc, the employer should be free to choose the criteria they use to identify the right person for the job. In my case, I am not hiring unvaccinated staff members because we owe it to our patents to provide the safest environment that we can....and since we cannot work from home, my staff and myself do not want to work in close proximity to an unvaccinated person.  We have had this policy since March. Its done. I dont even give it any thought anymore. We also require that patients and staff wear masks.We wipe down examining rooms after each patient.  It is good for their health and it is also good for my business. I get numerous positive reviews about our covid protocols and not one negative review. Patients like to hear that every staff member has been vaccinated and see the precautions we take.  

I dont lose patients because we are vaccinated.  The anti-vaxxers dont care. KSB (who is not an outright anti-vaxxer) will come and see me or not see me based on his assessment of our skill and reputation at our craft.

I will lose some patients if we were unvaccinated. No matter how good I am at my work, Clew will not come and see me if she heard that we were unvaccinated. 

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There has been some criticism levelled at the US "At Will" employment terms in this thread.

A couple of comments.

1.  it is two way.  The employee does not need to give notice when they quit. Employer and employee are both entitled to terminate employment at will.

2.  Employer and employee can agree to a notice period if they wish, but this is generally for salaried employees.  In the hourly wage sector, employers sometimes try to obtain 1 -2 weeks notice. But the right to "quit my job" and get a better job allows the employee to turn down those terms.

3.  The US strongly protects an employees rights to transfer employment. it is very hard to enforce a contract that stops an employee from working for a competitor. 

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

3.  The US strongly protects an employees rights to transfer employment. it is very hard to enforce a contract that stops an employee from working for a competitor. 

You would think. My firm has been involved in a legal battle for 2 individuals that quit their former employer then after a few weeks came to our firm. Been going on 3 years.

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5 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

There has been some criticism levelled at the US "At Will" employment terms in this thread.

A couple of comments.

1.  it is two way.  The employee does not need to give notice when they quit. Employer and employee are both entitled to terminate employment at will.

2.  Employer and employee can agree to a notice period if they wish, but this is generally for salaried employees.  In the hourly wage sector, employers sometimes try to obtain 1 -2 weeks notice. But the right to "quit my job" and get a better job allows the employee to turn down those terms.

3.  The US strongly protects an employees rights to transfer employment. it is very hard to enforce a contract that stops an employee from working for a competitor. 

I have no issue with "at will" employment.  We effectively have it in Canada.  Notice or pay in lieu of is a fairly minimal amount since most employees terminated without cause have not been employed more than a year.  Any employee lasting more than a year or two is typically not terminated without cause.  It is generally with cause (fraud, misconduct, etc.) in which case no notice is required.

In Canada, while an employee is required to give notice, I've never seen it enforced.

We do have non-compete agreements as does most of the US (except California and a few other states), but that is a separate issue.

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8 hours ago, 12 metre said:

We do have non-compete agreements as does most of the US (except California and a few other states), but that is a separate issue.

Most often it is a non-disclosure agreement that has a fixed end date eg. x months after termination.  l had to sign one when I was in software engineering.  I don't remember the details but I remember thinking it was somewhat draconian - I think it expired a year after termination or something like that.  Difficult to enforce though.

Hard to be of value to a competitor if you can't disclose IP belonging to your previous employer.

I don't remember a non-compete clause, but it is a long time ago now.   

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5 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Most often it is a non-disclosure agreement that has a fixed end date eg. x months after termination.  l had to sign one when I was in software engineering.  I don't remember the details but I remember thinking it was somewhat draconian - I think it expired a year after termination or something like that.  Difficult to enforce though.

Hard to be of value to a competitor if you can't disclose IP belonging to your previous employer.

I don't remember a non-compete clause, but it is a long time ago now.   

My first boat was a Slickcraft.  It was a wood motor boat.  His non-compete agreement only involved power boats, hence the S-2.

Tiara yachts do quite well.  I still pine for a 36' S2.

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35 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Most often it is a non-disclosure agreement that has a fixed end date eg. x months after termination.  l had to sign one when I was in software engineering.  I don't remember the details but I remember thinking it was somewhat draconian - I think it expired a year after termination or something like that.  Difficult to enforce though.

Hard to be of value to a competitor if you can't disclose IP belonging to your previous employer.

I don't remember a non-compete clause, but it is a long time ago now.   

Non-compete clauses are more form than substance really. Hard to enforce mostly.

NDA's - yeah, I've signed a lot. I always added a clause saying that nothing in the NDA could be applied to any knowledge, skills, IP or other knowledge that I'd possessed prior to the contract coming into force and no clause would be binding absent full payment as set out.

Some people wouldn't come at that. Fine. I didn't work for them.

FKT

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5 hours ago, Joethecobbler said:

 

And people were/are Free to frequent the business or not.

And business has been busy , more than usual, and I raised my prices to almost double and nobody even winced.

 

Good to hear the shoe repair bidness is booming. It seems like shoes are built to be disposable nowadays and people just throw them away as the uppers and soles fall apart. Some things just can't be fixed.

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8 hours ago, Joethecobbler said:

And business has been busy , more than usual, and I raised my prices to almost double and nobody even winced.

 

2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Good to hear the shoe repair bidness is booming. It seems like shoes are built to be disposable nowadays and people just throw them away as the uppers and soles fall apart. Some things just can't be fixed.

 

13 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Business.

Naah...sounds more like bidness.

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10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Good to hear the shoe repair bidness is booming. It seems like shoes are built to be disposable nowadays and people just throw them away as the uppers and soles fall apart. Some things just can't be fixed.

Including a lovely pair of Dubarrys where the insole just disintegrated. Dammit.

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27 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

It is pretty much discrimination forcing vaccines on people and if they don't do it fire them.

Yes, it is discrimination... so is firing people for being incompetent, for continually showing up late, for smoking in non-smoking areas, and many other forms of destructive malfeasance.

You don't get to act like a destructive shit head all your life, at some point people start discriminating against this behavior.

- DSK

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

It is pretty much discrimination forcing vaccines on people and if they don't do it fire them.

Why wouldn’t any business want to minimise their risk of spreading Covid amongst their staff, clients and suppliers? Disrupted business, bad PR and their Public Liability insurance may not cover them if they haven’t taken all reasonable actions to minimise Covid risk, including vaccinating all staff.

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Just saw on the news that some Canadian Hospitals are contemplating rescinding their suspension of workers who are not vaccinated. It is becoming evident that there are more health care needs and less people due to isolation protocols. 

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18 hours ago, danstanford said:

Just saw on the news that some Canadian Hospitals are contemplating rescinding their suspension of workers who are not vaccinated. It is becoming evident that there are more health care needs and less people due to isolation protocols. 

And I’m sure you see this as a good thing. You sound a lot like dog/chum

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

And I’m sure you see this as a good thing. You sound a lot like dog/chum

I have no idea what you mean by dog/chum, but I was simply reporting this. As for what I see as a good thing, it is my belief that if the current Covid case growth rate is sustained and is the current policy makeup of protocols, we will be left with all the people in isolation. If/when that happens the risk to life of you and I will be much greater than currently represented by Covid exposure. 

Hopefully what I think is clear now.

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

I have no idea what you mean by dog/chum, but I was simply reporting this. As for what I see as a good thing, it is my belief that if the current Covid case growth rate is sustained and is the current policy makeup of protocols, we will be left with all the people in isolation. If/when that happens the risk to life of you and I will be much greater than currently represented by Covid exposure. 

Hopefully what I think is clear now.

Your statement and conclusion doesn't agree. The hospitals are being filled with the unvaxxed.  The shortage of healthcare workers is due to burn out primarily because there are so many unvaxxed requiring ICU care.  How to manage to work in protocols as part of the problem is beyond me, sort of an Olympic Leap in Logic as it were.

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Just now, d'ranger said:

Your statement and conclusion doesn't agree. The hospitals are being filled with the unvaxxed.  The shortage of healthcare workers is due to burn out primarily because there are so many unvaxxed requiring ICU care.  How to manage to work in protocols as part of the problem is beyond me, sort of an Olympic Leap in Logic as it were.

Chum level logic. 

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5 hours ago, danstanford said:

I have no idea what you mean by dog/chum, but I was simply reporting this. As for what I see as a good thing, it is my belief that if the current Covid case growth rate is sustained and is the current policy makeup of protocols, we will be left with all the people in isolation. If/when that happens the risk to life of you and I will be much greater than currently represented by Covid exposure. 

Hopefully what I think is clear now.

The courts are confirming that organisations that are negligent in allowing covid to spread in their workplaces are liable for workers compensation.

Insurability will trump staffing.

Welcome to living with covid.

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14 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Your statement and conclusion doesn't agree. The hospitals are being filled with the unvaxxed.  The shortage of healthcare workers is due to burn out primarily because there are so many unvaxxed requiring ICU care.  How to manage to work in protocols as part of the problem is beyond me, sort of an Olympic Leap in Logic as it were.

I don't think you really read my point.

The issue they are having in the hospital is lack of staff, and one of the significant reasons for this is staff having to quarantine due to Covid exposure. With the current isolation protocols in place, there are many vaccinated and healthy people at home due to being exposure. As Omicron spreads this problem will get worse and the health care sector has a less elastic workforce and more than average exposure levels so they are anticipating this will get worse. 

This issue will spread across all sectors and I predict the protocols will have to be amended due to high exposure rates.

Recently the province of Ontario has revised their protocols to say that exposed workers do not have to isolate as long as they test negative for 10 successive days. 

Dan

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On 12/26/2021 at 2:39 AM, danstanford said:

I don't think you really read my point.

The issue they are having in the hospital is lack of staff, and one of the significant reasons for this is staff having to quarantine due to Covid exposure deal with anti-vax idiots who are now dying an ugly death, and who's relatives still demand to see them unmasked. With the current isolation protocols in place, there are many vaccinated and healthy people at home due to being exposure. As Omicron spreads this problem will get worse and the health care sector has a less elastic workforce and more than average exposure levels so they are anticipating this will get worse. 

This issue will spread across all sectors and I predict the protocols will have to be amended due to high exposure rates.

Recently the province of Ontario has revised their protocols to say that exposed workers do not have to isolate as long as they test negative for 10 successive days. 

Dan

 

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