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5 hours ago, zymeth said:

Aside from YouTube videos here and there. Anyone knows where I can find resources for learning in one place or in more systematic way?

 

Thank you!

Take a look at Rooster Sailing from the UK.  Steve Cockerill(sp?) demonstrates small sailboat handling in various conditions. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 9:50 AM, fastyacht said:

There are a lotvof sailors on San Frncisco bay....make friends:)

Yeah, definitely.  I am just trying to soak up as much info as I can. So I can make my practice more focus. (I am member at CSC, also sail keelboats out off Sausalito) 

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Find a mark and go around and around and around the smallest circles you can.  10x.  Then go the other way 10x.  Then come up from leeward and keep the bow within a foot of the mark for as long as you can.  30 seconds us.  Them go up wind and tack 20x.  Then go back down and gybe 20x.  Repeat. 

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Lesson one: learn to sail the boat flat, zero heal. It will steer where you want it to  go.

Lesson two: never let the mainsheet stay still. Keep it moving, makes lesson one easier.

Lesson three: learn to sail with your hands in front of you, so you can sheet the sail on using your tiller hand as well as your sheet hand.

Lesson four: Practice with other people doing the same thing with the same boat type.

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2 hours ago, some dude said:

Find a mark and go around and around and around the smallest circles you can.  10x.  Then go the other way 10x.  Then come up from leeward and keep the bow within a foot of the mark for as long as you can.  30 seconds us.  Then go upwind and tack 20x.  Then go back down and gybe 20x.  Repeat. 

This ^^ is great advice.  We have channel markers here that are foam. I have spent hours playing tag with them (remote ones). Under both power and sail practice circling, approaching, stopping alongside, bow to, stern to, etc. Do it in both calms, currents and breezes, from all directions, until you have confidence.

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I don't know how it works in the USA, but in the UK I'd say find the nearest sailing club with a sailing school (not a pay for commercial, sailing school).

Like my club here in Norfolk , Horning Sailing Club (horning-sailing.club) here you'd just have to join, less than £100 a year, and IIRC the sailing lessons are £5 per session, which we need to cover the costs of boat maintenance and running rescue boats..

The RYA website  in the UK will give where sailing clubs are, leading to their websites. I would hope your  equivalent in the USA does the same.

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I think Higher and Faster, despite it's age, is one of the best training/tutorials around. It helped me and many friends a lot.

This season we started to record almost every session with a Gopro. We analyzed the footage right after sailing and set only one or two very specific goals for the next session. This brought our sailing to a whole new level. It also pushed us when we were out alone because we wanted the perfect maneuver on tape. We also went out in very tough conditions that we've avoided in the past because full speed footage is great motivation.

We also built a very basic trapeze and tiller setup under a tree to to try different wire2wire maneuvers. This gives you the opportunity to discuss movement with other people around on the dry and to train muscle memory without capsizing for every mistake.

 

 

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Find somebody that's really good like a sailing instructor or racing coach. Go out with them  in a double handed dinghy like a 420. Take turns steering. They should be able to show you in two hours what it will take you to learn on your own in a year or never. I'm that local guy. They are usually worth the $100.

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What @14berlinsaid. An action camera -- gopro, garmin or one of the many knockoffs. Doesn't have to be fancy -- but you do want battery life to cover your whole session. Put it in a safe-from-tangles spot that captures the action. Review some of your maneuvers – we often find that just watching ourselves is full of "oh duh!" moments. In particular if you also watch videos by good competitive crews -- you'll have a visual imprint of what a good maneuver looks like. Then you watch yours and you instantly know what you have to work on.

(We edit and publish our videos to music for fun and to share w friends and family – during that editing time we go uff! look at that! get that ridiculous capsize on the video! – makes for a lighthearted review).

Another useful tool is a GPS recording of your outing. You can use your phone, a cheap bike speedometer, or go fancy with a sailing GPS watch. The important thing is to upload the GPX file to ChartedSails ( @sarfata here is the creator) or similar. Tell it where the wind was from for that session and it'll give you a good idea of how much time / distance was lost on each tack/gybe. 

Befriend local sailors. And a coach. Depending on your personal style, you might be able to do well with a coach who gives you a session every 2~3 months -- that's what we do. Every couple months we go out, coach puts us through the paces, tells us we're great, tells us we are awful, and here's a list of things to do/practice. 

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On 9/27/2021 at 12:33 PM, some dude said:

Find a mark and go around and around and around the smallest circles you can.  10x.  Then go the other way 10x.  Then come up from leeward and keep the bow within a foot of the mark for as long as you can.  30 seconds us.  Them go up wind and tack 20x.  Then go back down and gybe 20x.  Repeat. 

Oh yeah definitely, small circle is something I am trying to practice in. Thanks for helping me confirm on this

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12 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

What @14berlinsaid. An action camera -- gopro, garmin or one of the many knockoffs. Doesn't have to be fancy -- but you do want battery life to cover your whole session. Put it in a safe-from-tangles spot that captures the action. Review some of your maneuvers – we often find that just watching ourselves is full of "oh duh!" moments. In particular if you also watch videos by good competitive crews -- you'll have a visual imprint of what a good maneuver looks like. Then you watch yours and you instantly know what you have to work on.

(We edit and publish our videos to music for fun and to share w friends and family – during that editing time we go uff! look at that! get that ridiculous capsize on the video! – makes for a lighthearted review).

Another useful tool is a GPS recording of your outing. You can use your phone, a cheap bike speedometer, or go fancy with a sailing GPS watch. The important thing is to upload the GPX file to ChartedSails ( @sarfata here is the creator) or similar. Tell it where the wind was from for that session and it'll give you a good idea of how much time / distance was lost on each tack/gybe. 

Befriend local sailors. And a coach. Depending on your personal style, you might be able to do well with a coach who gives you a session every 2~3 months -- that's what we do. Every couple months we go out, coach puts us through the paces, tells us we're great, tells us we are awful, and here's a list of things to do/practice. 

Thanks for the tips.  GoPro is good idea, will try it out.  Watching competitive crews' videos is great idea.  I will search for them.  If you have a few mind, please do share.

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On 9/28/2021 at 3:04 AM, 14berlin said:

I think Higher and Faster, despite it's age, is one of the best training/tutorials around. It helped me and many friends a lot.

This season we started to record almost every session with a Gopro. We analyzed the footage right after sailing and set only one or two very specific goals for the next session. This brought our sailing to a whole new level. It also pushed us when we were out alone because we wanted the perfect maneuver on tape. We also went out in very tough conditions that we've avoided in the past because full speed footage is great motivation.

We also built a very basic trapeze and tiller setup under a tree to to try different wire2wire maneuvers. This gives you the opportunity to discuss movement with other people around on the dry and to train muscle memory without capsizing for every mistake.

 

 

Thanks for the pointers on Higher and Faster. I will look for those videos.  Also I thought about the same thing with setup basic tiller on land, would love to see your setup too.

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6 hours ago, zymeth said:

Thanks for the pointers on Higher and Faster. I will look for those videos.  Also I thought about the same thing with setup basic tiller on land, would love to see your setup too.

As I said, very basic :lol:

It startet as a workout device as addition to pullup training and then we added tillers. This improved sheet/tiller handover a lot.

training.jpg.80f1abafd6b59a57fa36893d051fb66a.jpg

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Higher and Faster is still really good. However, it aims more at higher performance boats than your quest. 

I've posted some things on my YouTube channel, RS200 (2 person hiking) and RS800 (2 person trapeze). I also posted a video on using video camera's for self coaching (below). I try to make the RS800 videos on boat handling pretty generic to trapeze skiffs. However, a word of warning, boat handling tips can get very boat specific very quick (where to place your feet, when to swap hands etc). 

There are some good generic bits of advice for boat handling (flat for straight line, heel to outside to turns, release kicker for manoeuvres, minimise tiller, use main V jib balance to turn the boat, keep low, minimise steps). 

Some dudes suggestion for drills is are good. I like to have a 'standard half hour' which we use as a warm up / boat handling session to start each sail when we're not racing. 

  1. 6 gybes, drop, 6 tacks, gybe set, gybe drop. 
  2. 5 minutes doing circles around a mark (no aiming for speed, but aiming for proximity), switch direction. https://youtu.be/AfM1TkSgn_c
  3. 5 minutes holding station on a mark (including double tacks followed by 'trigger pull' start gun acceleration. 
  4. 5 minutes figure of eight between two close moorings (5-10 boat lengths). Figure of 8 with tacks, then figure of 8 with gybes. 
  5. 5 x 'rolling roundings' = bear off, hoist, drop, round up, control lines on, control lines off, bear off, hoist. 
  6. 2x downwind 360s (gybe drop first)
  7. 2x upwind 360s (tack first)

Another good exercise is to lash you tiller with some bungy and do some rudderless sailing (leave rudder down, just don't touch it).https://youtu.be/FUAqNtj_dd8

 

Linked below is an unlisted video, just and example me reviewing footage after sailing and sending ideas to my crew. It is not meant for public consumption, but it gives a decent idea to how I review the footage. 

https://youtu.be/95Ch_8AJnfM

 

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Linked below is an unlisted video, just and example me reviewing footage after sailing and sending ideas to my crew. It is not meant for public consumption, but it gives a decent idea to how I review the footage. 

https://youtu.be/95Ch_8AJnfM

 

What software do you use for drawing onto the video (live)?

I'm planning to do something similar for ther German 14 class this winter but I want to make it more like a podcast and not a time consuming "produced" video.

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5 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Some dudes suggestion for drills is are good. I like to have a 'standard half hour' which we use as a warm up / boat handling session to start each sail when we're not racing. 

  1. 6 gybes, drop, 6 tacks, gybe set, gybe drop. 
  2. 5 minutes doing circles around a mark (no aiming for speed, but aiming for proximity), switch direction. https://youtu.be/AfM1TkSgn_c
  3. 5 minutes holding station on a mark (including double tacks followed by 'trigger pull' start gun acceleration. 
  4. 5 minutes figure of eight between two close moorings (5-10 boat lengths). Figure of 8 with tacks, then figure of 8 with gybes. 
  5. 5 x 'rolling roundings' = bear off, hoist, drop, round up, control lines on, control lines off, bear off, hoist. 
  6. 2x downwind 360s (gybe drop first)
  7. 2x upwind 360s (tack first)

Do you fit that in a literal half hour? 

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On 9/28/2021 at 3:04 AM, 14berlin said:

I think Higher and Faster, despite it's age, is one of the best training/tutorials around. It helped me and many friends a lot.

This season we started to record almost every session with a Gopro. We analyzed the footage right after sailing and set only one or two very specific goals for the next session. This brought our sailing to a whole new level. It also pushed us when we were out alone because we wanted the perfect maneuver on tape. We also went out in very tough conditions that we've avoided in the past because full speed footage is great motivation.

We also built a very basic trapeze and tiller setup under a tree to to try different wire2wire maneuvers. This gives you the opportunity to discuss movement with other people around on the dry and to train muscle memory without capsizing for every mistake.

 

 

Agree - this series still has relevance today.

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You've got great learning boats. If I were you I would find a good coach/instructor/mentor to go out with you in the JY or the Quest.

The JY is simple. You learn by swimming. Having a person sitting shoulder to shoulder with you pointing out what they are looking at(conditions), what they are constantly doing(steering, sail trim)), what they are thinking about(course, how to leave/return, risk management), what are the proper ways to sail that boat(hiking, body position, rigging, depowering) Basic boat handling skills(tacks, gybes, kinetics, etc) 

Go out on your own in the Laser and practice what your mentor taught. There is really good online material & books Laser specific. Once again ask a good Laser sailor and they can show you much of it in a couple of hours. You will get better by swimming. If you don't frequently capsize a Laser as a newbie you are not pushing hard enough. Fact.

Go out on the Quest and put everything you've learned on the JY & Laser to use. 

 #1 go out regardless of the conditions right up to your upper wind limit. 

#2 Do not go out and reach around unless its blowing 20 kts constant and you are just blasting around. Plan some kind of challenging course. Doesn't matter what you use for marks, or sail in really tight areas(marinas, anchorage, rivers. Somewhere you have to tack & gybe. No choice otherwise you run aground or hit something. Tighter the better.  Two movable marks are perfect for practice. Set them up windward/leward or as two reach marks. Do hundreds of roundings in ovals, figure eights, both directions, put the marks closer and closer together. We do this every practice to warm up.

#3 the key to dinghy sailing is learning the basic rig settings for that boat. Depowering the rig is super important. Master vang sheeting.

#4 make it challenging & fun. Sail to a destination and do all this stuff on the way there for a coffee or lunch.

#5 try to learn something new everyday

#6 read/study good books ask people which are worth your time & money.

#7 ask lots of questions on SA. "There are no stupid questions. There are only stupid answers" 

#8 have fun

 

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17 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

Do you fit that in a literal half hour? 

Ha, often not. But some aspects we give up on early. Holding station often with wind and tide we don't get to 5 minutes. Also circling a mark, if there is much breeze we'll have a spin out, dropped sheet before 5 minutes. We also very rarely do the rolling roundings.

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On 9/30/2021 at 2:10 AM, Mozzy Sails said:

Higher and Faster is still really good. However, it aims more at higher performance boats than your quest. 

I've posted some things on my YouTube channel, RS200 (2 person hiking) and RS800 (2 person trapeze). I also posted a video on using video camera's for self coaching (below). I try to make the RS800 videos on boat handling pretty generic to trapeze skiffs. However, a word of warning, boat handling tips can get very boat specific very quick (where to place your feet, when to swap hands etc). 

There are some good generic bits of advice for boat handling (flat for straight line, heel to outside to turns, release kicker for manoeuvres, minimise tiller, use main V jib balance to turn the boat, keep low, minimise steps). 

Some dudes suggestion for drills is are good. I like to have a 'standard half hour' which we use as a warm up / boat handling session to start each sail when we're not racing. 

  1. 6 gybes, drop, 6 tacks, gybe set, gybe drop. 
  2. 5 minutes doing circles around a mark (no aiming for speed, but aiming for proximity), switch direction. https://youtu.be/AfM1TkSgn_c
  3. 5 minutes holding station on a mark (including double tacks followed by 'trigger pull' start gun acceleration. 
  4. 5 minutes figure of eight between two close moorings (5-10 boat lengths). Figure of 8 with tacks, then figure of 8 with gybes. 
  5. 5 x 'rolling roundings' = bear off, hoist, drop, round up, control lines on, control lines off, bear off, hoist. 
  6. 2x downwind 360s (gybe drop first)
  7. 2x upwind 360s (tack first)

Another good exercise is to lash you tiller with some bungy and do some rudderless sailing (leave rudder down, just don't touch it).https://youtu.be/FUAqNtj_dd8

 

Linked below is an unlisted video, just and example me reviewing footage after sailing and sending ideas to my crew. It is not meant for public consumption, but it gives a decent idea to how I review the footage. 

https://youtu.be/95Ch_8AJnfM

 

HAHA, I already subscribe to you since last year. It is good to see you in person

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On 9/30/2021 at 3:35 PM, CaptainAhab said:

You've got great learning boats. If I were you I would find a good coach/instructor/mentor to go out with you in the JY or the Quest.

The JY is simple. You learn by swimming. Having a person sitting shoulder to shoulder with you pointing out what they are looking at(conditions), what they are constantly doing(steering, sail trim)), what they are thinking about(course, how to leave/return, risk management), what are the proper ways to sail that boat(hiking, body position, rigging, depowering) Basic boat handling skills(tacks, gybes, kinetics, etc) 

Go out on your own in the Laser and practice what your mentor taught. There is really good online material & books Laser specific. Once again ask a good Laser sailor and they can show you much of it in a couple of hours. You will get better by swimming. If you don't frequently capsize a Laser as a newbie you are not pushing hard enough. Fact.

Go out on the Quest and put everything you've learned on the JY & Laser to use. 

 #1 go out regardless of the conditions right up to your upper wind limit. 

#2 Do not go out and reach around unless its blowing 20 kts constant and you are just blasting around. Plan some kind of challenging course. Doesn't matter what you use for marks, or sail in really tight areas(marinas, anchorage, rivers. Somewhere you have to tack & gybe. No choice otherwise you run aground or hit something. Tighter the better.  Two movable marks are perfect for practice. Set them up windward/leward or as two reach marks. Do hundreds of roundings in ovals, figure eights, both directions, put the marks closer and closer together. We do this every practice to warm up.

#3 the key to dinghy sailing is learning the basic rig settings for that boat. Depowering the rig is super important. Master vang sheeting.

#4 make it challenging & fun. Sail to a destination and do all this stuff on the way there for a coffee or lunch.

#5 try to learn something new everyday

#6 read/study good books ask people which are worth your time & money.

#7 ask lots of questions on SA. "There are no stupid questions. There are only stupid answers" 

#8 have fun

 

Thank you for the tips.  Really appreciate all of the helps from SA.  

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On 9/24/2021 at 1:31 AM, zymeth said:

Aside from YouTube videos here and there. Anyone knows where I can find resources for learning in one place or in more systematic way?

 

Thank you!

I’d suggest the app which is called “Learn Sailing Online” in the AppStore or GooglePlay. This is a free resource with all consecutive lessons in one place. Regards

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