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24 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Playing the devils advocate;

If memory serves me correctly, a few years ago I saw interviews where several racers said that the series class was much more competitive than the proto class. Even some hotshot youngsters, intending to become professional ocean racers, would have said they were racing the series class exactly because the competition was higher level, and gave the best opportunity to distinguish themselves.

This is my recollection, at least.

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Seriously.........?¿? So from the comfort of your armchair, you have proclaimed that Teamwork is doing what is obvious, and therefore in the same vein, everyone else is just stupid. Good one.

Video of boats sailing always good. Irina, seasick for 5 days. auch. Maybe the reason for the hike to the coast.

It is starting today (delayed from yesterday due to weather)  Site : https://www.minitransat.fr/en/news/mini-transat-eurochef-j-1/ Tracker : http://minitransat.geovoile.com/2021/tr

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43 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Playing the devils advocate;
sailors in production class should not depend such ridiculous amounts on their boats, should go proto and ignore weather advice.

If you sail in production class you are an amateur anyway :)
Real racers takes a proto.
Serie is sailing with training wheels on.

But I would never dare to wear a T-shirt with that slogan to the start...

I think that is basically entirely incorrect.

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5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

 

 

The class very adamantly refused to have sat phones forced on them a few years ago, being not in the "mini spirit". You have to remember there is also no chart plotter, table, phone or laptop on them, again as they are not in the "mini spirit" (although they take pride in using manual paper charts, it surprised me how many people fudged this drawing rough outlines on GPS as waypoints) so having data only access would be useless. 

Yes I get that, but the mini class is very high tech in the boat architecture aspect, so why should they stay "retarded" in the navigation/weather/electronics aspects ? It made perfect sense some 20 years ago, don't think it's the case anymore.

Maybe they could agree on a standard package to limit budget aspects.

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53 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Playing the devils advocate;
sailors in production class should not depend such ridiculous amounts on their boats, should go proto and ignore weather advice.

If you sail in production class you are an amateur anyway :)
Real racers takes a proto.
Serie is sailing with training wheels on.

But I would never dare to wear a T-shirt with that slogan to the start...

It depends, the top end of the series fleet are definitely not looking to stay amateur, they are just investing in known solid designs (Pogo 3 etc) which will have a controllable depreciation, with much tighter racing compared to the protos where only the top couple competitive, hell just look at how Melwin is currently 5th overall despite the next proto also staying out in the weather.

 

3 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Yes I get that, but the mini class is very high tech in the boat architecture aspect, so why should they stay "retarded" in the navigation/weather/electronics aspects ? It made perfect sense some 20 years ago, don't think it's the case anymore.

Maybe they could agree on a standard package to limit budget aspects.

They've just started restricting series electronics to a known list to further limit it, (the series boats are quite very limited in sailing tech too of course), but its the ethos of the class, as a training school for offshore racing where you sure as hell need to know how to navigate without electronics, even if day to day you don't. (Everyone in the fleet is doing routing on laptops before hand, preparing, planning, building road books etc).

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4 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

After a week of racing, the time difference between 2nd and 3rd place was 5 minutes.

More crucially with a scow vs a hybrid bow foiler, the pogo foiler could finally prove foiling in minis works and end the scow dominance!

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Playing the devils advocate;
sailors in production class should not depend such ridiculous amounts on their boats, should go proto and ignore weather advice.

If you sail in production class you are an amateur anyway :)
Real racers takes a proto.
Serie is sailing with training wheels on.

But I would never dare to wear a T-shirt with that slogan to the start...

Ha!  Tell that to Charlie Dalin and Xavier Macaire!

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Just now, r.finn said:

Ha!  Tell that to Charlie Darlin and Xavier Macaire!

Ha, I bet you that if I tell that Charlie in person, he will laugh and high five me, we know each other.

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Looking at the AIS data, 969 was doing 17+ knots coming into the finish. Hopefully someone got photos or videos since it was still daylight when he finished

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1 hour ago, ctutmark said:

Looking at the AIS data, 969 was doing 17+ knots coming into the finish. Hopefully someone got photos or videos since it was still daylight when he finished

Theres a few in the mailing list

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11 hours ago, ctutmark said:

are you referring to the website or are you on some "special" list?

I meant the newsletter mailing list, I don't think its special :lol: 

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On 10/1/2021 at 2:51 PM, bajakiter said:

Amazed at how little activity/interest there is on this thread.  90 boats, 21.5 feet, solo to the canaries and then the Caribbean.

Actually, activity/interest in things “sailing” is down across the board.  Not only here but on YouTube, internet “yacht for sale” ads, and blog activity.  Blame Covid.

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45 minutes ago, hannibalhouse said:

Actually, activity/interest in things “sailing” is down across the board.  Not only here but on YouTube, internet “yacht for sale” ads, and blog activity.  Blame Covid.

What are you basing this assumption on? From where I’m sitting in Europe people have never been more interested…

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18 minutes ago, furler49 said:

What are you basing this assumption on? From where I’m sitting in Europe people have never been more interested…

Agreed.  It seems interest is up around here and boat sales are definitely up.  

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People on this site are often too busy lamenting the end of IOR and marvelling over the introduction of rope spinnaker guys. And an S9.1 will lord it over a Mini any time.

And they like their wings on the bottom of the keel to make it shallower and easier to cruise Florida and the ICW.

Actually I just think there is less notice taken of the Europe races. The Aegean 600 race was another example of a good race with a dead thread.

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26 minutes ago, hannibalhouse said:

I actually audit the postings I mentioned.  Don’t care for a person’s gut feeling.  Ask the Ed.  I am sure he counts these things too.  It is his livelihood.

 

You may well audit the postings but you've still provided nothing to back up your sweeping statement. I too don't care for a gut feeling hence why asking you to substantiate it. 

After a quick google search:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/19/boat-sales-took-off-during-pandemic-dealers-cant-keep-up-with-demand.html

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/22377/the-2020-2021-vendee-globe-much-more-than-just-a-success

https://www.yachtingworld.com/features/the-rise-and-rise-of-double-handed-racing-133804

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just disagree with you. 

 

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35 minutes ago, hannibalhouse said:

I actually audit the postings I mentioned.  Don’t care for a person’s gut feeling.  Ask the Ed.  I am sure he counts these things too.  It is his livelihood.

 

I'm not talking about interest in sailing on the internet.  I'm talking about actual interest in sailing and boat sales.  Maybe internet traffic down because people are actually out using their boats?  

We had a race last weekend where we typical meet afterwards at a dock on a remote island.  In past years we've had the dock/island basically to ourselves.  This year the dock was full, the mooring balls were full, and there were boats anchored as well.  Completely different from previous years.  

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On 10/4/2021 at 10:46 AM, LeoV said:

Playing the devils advocate;
sailors in production class should not depend such ridiculous amounts on their boats, should go proto and ignore weather advice.

If you sail in production class you are an amateur anyway :)
Real racers takes a proto.
Serie is sailing with training wheels on.

But I would never dare to wear a T-shirt with that slogan to the start...

Care to look up the number of "real sailors" who started out in the Series class?

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2 hours ago, hannibalhouse said:

Actually, activity/interest in things “sailing” is down across the board.  Not only here but on YouTube, internet “yacht for sale” ads, and blog activity.  Blame Covid.

The J dealer in he Pacific Northwest can't keep inventory in stock.  

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On 10/4/2021 at 11:48 AM, bajakiter said:

After a week of racing, the time difference between 2nd and 3rd place was 5 minutes.

and between 4th and 5th? When is the next start?

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So Jay restarted with his broken rudder (no elevator anymore), anybody knows if he will manage to get a new one for the second leg ?

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   2 hours ago,  hannibalhouse said: 

I actually audit the postings I mentioned.  Don’t care for a person’s gut feeling.  Ask the Ed.  I am sure he counts these things too.  It is his livelihood.

 

You may well audit the postings but you've still provided nothing to back up your sweeping statement. I too don't care for a gut feeling hence why asking you to substantiate it. 

After a quick google search:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/19/boat-sales-took-off-during-pandemic-dealers-cant-keep-up-with-demand.html

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/22377/the-2020-2021-vendee-globe-much-more-than-just-a-success

https://www.yachtingworld.com/features/the-rise-and-rise-of-double-handed-racing-133804

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just disagree with you. 
 

What do you disagree with?  You cite a CNBC article which only has to do with sales of power boats (not sailboats).  The other two cites have to do with the “popularity” of two yacht racing categories, not about booming sales.  Another commentor mentioned that a J Boat dealer can’t keep boats in inventory.  My appliance dealer can’t deliver appliances either, but it has to do with the manufacturer’s being unable to get parts and ship completed units (not an upsurge in demand).

Do this simple search.  Youtube videos are “dated”.  Bring up a selection of used sailing yachts for sale by name brokers.  Scroll through your entire sample and count the percent of those videos that were posted in the last year.  Then tell everybody the results.

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Just now, hannibalhouse said:

 

 

   2 hours ago,  hannibalhouse said: 

I actually audit the postings I mentioned.  Don’t care for a person’s gut feeling.  Ask the Ed.  I am sure he counts these things too.  It is his livelihood.

 

You may well audit the postings but you've still provided nothing to back up your sweeping statement. I too don't care for a gut feeling hence why asking you to substantiate it. 

After a quick google search:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/19/boat-sales-took-off-during-pandemic-dealers-cant-keep-up-with-demand.html

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/22377/the-2020-2021-vendee-globe-much-more-than-just-a-success

https://www.yachtingworld.com/features/the-rise-and-rise-of-double-handed-racing-133804

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just disagree with you. 
 

What do you disagree with?  You cite a CNBC article which only has to do with sales of power boats (not sailboats).  The other two cites have to do with the “popularity” of two yacht racing categories, not about booming sales.  Another commentor mentioned that a J Boat dealer can’t keep boats in inventory.  My appliance dealer can’t deliver appliances either, but it has to do with the manufacturer’s being unable to get parts and ship completed units (not an upsurge in demand).

Do this simple search.  Youtube videos are “dated”.  Bring up a selection of used sailing yachts for sale by name brokers.  Scroll through your entire sample and count the percent of those videos that were posted in the last year.  Then tell everybody the results.

Or wait to see your audited results ;) Might save me an hour or two! 

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On 10/4/2021 at 1:53 PM, JonRowe said:

More crucially with a scow vs a hybrid bow foiler, the pogo foiler could finally prove foiling in minis works and end the scow dominance!

A scow or spoon bow will always be preferable, especially when foiling.  Because when the foils stall, they have to land on a plane, not Archimedean.  Otherwise they nose dive which is worse than slow, it's dangerous. 

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9 hours ago, r.finn said:

A scow or spoon bow will always be preferable, especially when foiling.  Because when the foils stall, they have to land on a plane, not Archimedean.  Otherwise they nose dive which is worse than slow, it's dangerous. 

With Mini's you have to remember the proportions and that hull shape wise they're not as constrained by rules as say IMOCA. The "non-scow" bows would still be ruled illegal under IMOCA rules, they are very full, very round bows, as the fleet has tended towards planing hull forms. The full scows in Mini's are full width 3m beam bows; which has to be a lot of extra weight forward, so may not help land flat compared to a rounded bow.

There have been... 4? Mini's with foils, the pogo foiler, coconuts, what was arkea and sea air. Only arkea was a scow, but never worked so I'm not sure thats a fair test, be interesting to see if someone tries a foiling scow next go around.

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1 hour ago, JonRowe said:

be interesting to see if someone tries a foiling scow next go around.

I'm confused by what you call a scow bow. 

Do you mean that this is not a scow bow?

Or just not a scow?

pogo-foiler-mini-650-scow-bow.thumb.jpg.f544909625ab680abf97d444eb5c0e38.jpg

Photo from the Yachting World article.

 

Edited by Fiji Bitter
Scow
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10 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

I'm confused by what you call a scow bow. 

Do you mean that this is not a scow bow?

pogo-foiler-mini-650-scow-bow.thumb.jpg.f544909625ab680abf97d444eb5c0e38.jpg

Photo from the Yachting World article.

 

Thats what I call the hybrid bow, as it's full and rounded, but not full scow like teamwork:

scow.thumb.png.e61cb0676283b7205069043361c39b99.png

 

 

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11 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Thats what I call the hybrid bow, as it's full and rounded, but not full scow like teamwork:

I see, the French writer of the article does not seem to make that distinction.

Are you perhaps a product of the Solent Uni Yacht design?

Asking for a  friend bit of fun.

 

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Nah, thats just how a couple of us anglais mini-ists make the distinctions between the different designs, I have a Pogo 2 which is very "pointy" bow, the Pogo 3 is very rounded hybrid bow, and then theres the full scow maxi and vectors 

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P2 has a very fine bow. Near the 7% rule what was a standard in design world.
Add a foil and a want to counter nosediving. Something that designers hope sometime becomes reality. But hoping for 20 years now.

Jon, what is your expedience regarding watch keeping ability and sustained 35 knots winds and gusts to 50 ?
I am an oldy and pre AIS. Watch keeping in those conditions was almost close the hatch and sit it out. Counting on the fact no to be hit as the sea is big and the boat tiny.

I know the Mini Class has a database of when, where and with what wind the most damage and deaths occurred... let me guess, around Finisterre and with 35 to 50 knots of wind... hence their warning which almost all followed.

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17 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Nah, thats just how a couple of us anglais mini-ists make the distinctions between the different designs, I have a Pogo 2 which is very "pointy" bow, the Pogo 3 is very rounded hybrid bow, and then theres the full scow maxi and vectors 

OK, good on you, I'm learning.

I would almost want to swap my 39' Uldb, for the foiling Pogo...

Interestingly, the foiling Pogo only seemed to be fast in optimum conditions. Or maybe Tanguy was was just a bit unlucky with the weather, and is still developing the full potential.

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33 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Interestingly, the foiling Pogo only seemed to be fast in optimum conditions. Or maybe Tanguy was was just a bit unlucky with the weather, and is still developing the full potential.

Or he knows how to play the game. Once placed 7th when he positioned himself West. Other whise always top 4.
(though tracker had him way down due to a glitch.)

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9 minutes ago, LeoV said:

P2 has a very fine bow. Near the 7% rule what was a standard in design world.
Add a foil and a want to counter nosediving. Something that designers hope sometime becomes reality. But hoping for 20 years now.

Totally agree that you wouldn't want a P2 bow on a foiler :lol: it has its advantages up wind and thats about it.

9 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Jon, what is your expedience regarding watch keeping ability and sustained 35 knots winds and gusts to 50 ?
I am an oldy and pre AIS. Watch keeping in those conditions was almost close the hatch and sit it out. Counting on the fact no to be hit as the sea is big and the boat tiny.

Honestly I haven't seen anything much over 35 in the races I've managed to do they kept us ashore, even splitting a race in two, to avoid seriously bad weather, but the experience I have had wouldn't make me keen to be out off Finisterre in what they faced. The only thing that would keep me out when advised to take shelter is a lack of safe shelter, I would be terrified of ending up on the rocks like our unlucky friend. In bad conditions I prefer to be on deck, sheltering against the coach roof, in reach of controls, but again haven't seen 50knots.

 

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Youngest person to win the first leg and first german. (at least according to facebook)

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Interview from race site is up;

You are the first German and also the youngest skipper to win a leg of the Mini Transat. How do you feel about that?

"I don't really know yet. I never dared to hope for something like this! I was a bit lucky and probably made the right decisions too. In any case, it was hard. I hesitated whether to go to the front or not. In the end, everything went well because everything went exactly as planned. The conditions I had were totally in line with what the weather report said, as I had 30 knots of wind on average, with gusts to 40. Finally, the first front that swept through the fleet in the Bay of Biscay was more violent than this second one.

Did you know or understand what was happening with the rest of the fleet?

"After receiving the BMS notice, I heard some exchanges on the VHF but I didn't understand that some people were thinking of taking shelter thirty-six hours before the front passed. I thought it was very early to decide to put one's race on hold. I spoke with Christian Kargl. Together we decided to continue to sail as far south as possible and, when the time came, to choose whether or not to reach a port. As we progressed, we realised that, as stated in the weather report, the conditions south of the latitude of Porto were manageable and that, therefore, there was no reason to stop.

Could you have imagined such a scenario at that time?

"At no time. It's going to be a big advantage for the second stage, for sure. It was a big decision but I weighed it up. I never had the feeling that I was taking big risks. Before this second front arrived, my boat was in perfect condition, without any damage, even after the first gale in the Bay of Biscay. Thirty knots gusting to 40 is a lot but we have strong boats, the ability to reduce the sail in different ways and lots of options to secure the mast. My only fear was that it would fall over because the waves were quite big but it all worked out."

You were bold, but you also sailed perfectly afterwards, increasing your lead from 60 to 100 miles over the Austrian Christian Kargl after the passage of Madeira...

"100 miles, really? Wow! I didn't expect that much! I made my own way, without asking myself any questions but doing things as I felt them, quite simply.

You seem very intimidated!

"I can't believe what is happening to me! I was dreaming of a Top 10 before I left and now I'm the first boat to arrive in La Palma with a big lead over the second boat! It's amazing! It puts a bit of pressure on me for the second leg but nothing is decided yet. There will be a lot of downwind conditions. We'll see how it goes.

 

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Congrats to the young German, impressive first leg victory. And from his interview, it seems that he did hear the warnings, weighted carefully the pro's and con's, set a plan (go South as fast as possible, and review options when time comes to make a decision) and executed flawlessly.

 

Looking at other competitors, Hugo Picard seems to be gaining spots nicely. He was 38th when everybody was coming out of their respective shelters, and he is now 16th. He is the guy from the Youtube Channel "The Sailing Frenchman". I don't know the guy, but his videos are entertaining, and not too "reality TV" edited, if you see what I mean...

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1 minute ago, Laurent said:

Congrats to the young German, impressive first leg victory. And from his interview, it seems that he did hear the warnings, weighted carefully the pro's and con's, set a plan (go South as fast as possible, and review options when time comes to make a decision) and executed flawlessly.

 

Looking at other competitors, Hugo Picard seems to be gaining spots nicely. He was 38th when everybody was coming out of their respective shelters, and he is now 16th. He is the guy from the Youtube Channel "The Sailing Frenchman". I don't know the guy, but his videos are entertaining, and not too "reality TV" edited, if you see what I mean...

Hugo seems to never say die.  He keeps fighting back up the standings after every setback.

I'm kind of impressed how much the other Hugo (Dhallene) has overtaken Julie.  Looks like he hooked into better wind further east.

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We'll have to see what all the other skippers say when they have arrived; but I have it on good authority that those who did not stop are considered "cheats" as there was a "gentleman's" agreement that everybody would stop. Lets see :)

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7 minutes ago, littlechay said:

We'll have to see what all the other skippers say when they have arrived; but I have it on good authority that those who did not stop are considered "cheats" as there was a "gentleman's" agreement that everybody would stop. Lets see :)

I trust it will come out on the wash.  The wash being leg 2.

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6 minutes ago, littlechay said:

We'll have to see what all the other skippers say when they have arrived; but I have it on good authority that those who did not stop are considered "cheats" as there was a "gentleman's" agreement that everybody would stop. Lets see :)

That's a strong accusation to publicly state based on 'good authority' second hand gossip. 

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36 minutes ago, littlechay said:

We'll have to see what all the other skippers say when they have arrived; but I have it on good authority that those who did not stop are considered "cheats" as there was a "gentleman's" agreement that everybody would stop. Lets see :)

I'm really curious to know when this agreement was struck.  If it was arranged at the skipper's meeting then everyone is bound by it.  If it was arranged ad hoc over VHF on the water, I can't help thinking that's a different kettle of fish, and every skipper is responsible for sailing their own boat.

(Personally, I'd have headed in to port, but that's mainly because I'm a chicken.  I tip my hat to anyone who stayed out.)

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24 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

I'm really curious to know when this agreement was struck.  If it was arranged at the skipper's meeting then everyone is bound by it.  If it was arranged ad hoc over VHF on the water, I can't help thinking that's a different kettle of fish, and every skipper is responsible for sailing their own boat.

(Personally, I'd have headed in to port, but that's mainly because I'm a chicken.  I tip my hat to anyone who stayed out.)

Not to mention the language barrier and vhf range to communicate all this amongst themselves. 

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1 hour ago, inneedofadvice said:

Not to mention the language barrier and vhf range to communicate all this amongst themselves. 

They have a few boats sailing with them for safety reasons, I  expect that they relayed the BMS to the sailors as they are in satellite phone contact daily with organisation.
Nothing agreed beforehand.

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5 hours ago, inneedofadvice said:

That's a strong accusation to publicly state based on 'good authority' second hand gossip. 

On this occasion it is not gossip and relayed through one person (yes second hand if you like); so I know the provenance of the statement without doubt. 

I never accused anybody of anything.. Just passing on an interesting bit of insight.

As for whether they are cheats or not. I doubt that they are; as I assume that the agreement was made, in French, on the water and as you have stated above there would have been a distance and language barrier in play.

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21 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

And what did humanity do to piss off Orca Nation ?? 

Turns out Douglas Adams got it right, but whilst the dolphins can leave a dying planet, the Orcas would be left behind so they're trying to tell us to clean up our mess  to stop climate change.

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Just now, JonRowe said:

Turns out Douglas Adams got it right, but whilst the dolphins can leave a dying planet, the Orcas would be left behind so they're trying to tell us to clean up our mess  to stop climate change.

Totally plausible 

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4 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Turns out Douglas Adams got it right, but whilst the dolphins can leave a dying planet, the Orcas would be left behind so they're trying to tell us to clean up our mess  to stop climate change.

Orca are dolphins

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2 hours ago, Roleur said:

Major damage control, that.  But it all sounds well reasoned.

Yep, the next discussion should include some outspoken critics of their decision, which I'm sure there will be. My impression is that the language barrier did play a role, and also that Race Control should have been more precise. 

Just wondering what @ronnie_simpson, who wrote the Lattitude 38 article, will have to say about this?

He is not (yet) posting here and he usually is not engaging in forum discussions much. I guess he is not too keen on the incessant trolling going on elsewhere, but thank you all for keeping this thread as clean as one would expect from Mini aficianodos. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

the incessant trolling going on

My trolls have not shown up as yet, but it is only a matter of time. 

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11 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Yep, the next discussion should include some outspoken critics of their decision, which I'm sure there will be. My impression is that the language barrier did play a role, and also that Race Control should have been more precise. 

Just wondering what @ronnie_simpson, who wrote the Lattitude 38 article, will have to say about this?

He is not (yet) posting here and he usually is not engaging in forum discussions much. I guess he is not too keen on the incessant trolling going on elsewhere, but thank you all for keeping this thread as clean as one would expect from Mini aficianodos. 

 

I'd really look forward to that because I've been trying to figure out exactly what their case against Melwin and Christian actually is.  They didn't break the rules or do anything wildly un-seamanlike as far as I can see.

So what this seems to boil down to is that a majority of the fleet decided on an unofficial rule change three days into the race.  

I understand and admire the motivation for stopping.  By having everyone stop, it removed the pressure on trailing or less skilled skippers to keep racing into conditions that they might not have handled.  Of course this needs 100% buy in to work, and I realize that many of the leading skippers could have handled the conditions and might have won if they hadn't stopped.  

This was a gentleman's/gentleperson's agreement brokered over VHF communication among 65 multi-lingual skippers spread over 100 nm of ocean.  There's no guarantee that something like that will work.  I'm suprised it worked out as well as it did.  If ten or fifteen had kept going, most people would probably just figure that they tried something and it didn't work out.  In some ways the fact that only two skippers kept sailing makes it easier to blame those skippers.  

But like I say, I look forward to hearing from the "other side".

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This is happening right now:

 

Lava blocks the size of buildings falling from La Palma volcano

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lava-blocks-size-buildings-falling-la-palma-volcano-2021-10-10/

LA PALMA, Spain, Oct 10 (Reuters) - Blocks of molten lava as large as three-storey buildings rolled down a hillside on the Spanish island of La Palma on Sunday while a series of tremors shook the ground three weeks after the volcano erupted.

There were 21 seismic movements on Sunday, with the largest measuring 3.8, the Spanish National Geological Institute (ING) said, shaking the ground in the villages of Mazo, Fuencaliente and El Paso. (...)

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I don't know what went on with the decision to carry on or not after Finisterre. Wasn't there but I think the win will have an "asterisk".

Whether or not the German showed great seamanship, racing skills, I don't know. But it is always much easier to win a race when you have a hundred mile or so head start. No pressure from other competitors and you are sailing in different conditions than the rest of the fleet.

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best listen to the 1st & 2nd themselves:

 

they were ahead already & the further south one was the weaker the frant was going to be & the later it was to reach them (=weaker still), there was NO "gentlemen's agreement", just a lot of excited French on VHF...the Austrian stopped for 15 hours & still came in second. No question of a "restart", which in any case would have been about as fair as the safetycar in F1...

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It is Irina who initiated this talk right ? She is not only a great sailor but also a great  diplomat ! :)

Otherwise was Melwin already more south than the others (too lazy to check it out)

In the end I think Iridium go should be part of the mini package.

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2 hours ago, bajakiter said:Wasn't there but I think the win will have an "asterisk".

 it is always much easier to win a race when you have a hundred mile or so head start. 

This is so much bullshit. No asterisk, no one was forced to stop. They were ahead of the worst of the front and anyone who wasn’t was justified in stopping. 

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2 hours ago, tane said:

best listen to the 1st & 2nd themselves:

 

they were ahead already & the further south one was the weaker the frant was going to be & the later it was to reach them (=weaker still), there was NO "gentlemen's agreement", just a lot of excited French on VHF...the Austrian stopped for 15 hours & still came in second. No question of a "restart", which in any case would have been about as fair as the safetycar in F1...

Hey Tane, and others, maybe you best listen to the interview again yourself. An interview that BTW was already posted a day ago by Blunderfull.

And check the tracker, and you will see that Melvin was at best 15th, and Christian a little behind him, when they split.

And maybe reserve your biased opinion till you hear from the ones that were "cheated" out of their hard fought leading positions...

Also, don't forget that this is the Series Class, with a certain long established cameradie and fair play.

 

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Replayed the tracker. They were in 17 and 18 place when the fleet started in.

It doesn't matter now. They were awarded first and second.

looking forward to the second leg to Guadalupe. 2700 miles is a long way in a 21.5 footer. But they are fast.

 

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I see no foul here.

If RC was to stop the fleet then also the leading protos, allready well out of the danger, would have to stop too.

Otherwise it was just a recomandation and the (then) leading Serie should check in their pants for a pair of balls.

p.s. I know they have them and made out of kevlar, too.

 

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everyone criticizing Melwin & Christian: of course your French language skill would easily have been good enough to follow French native speakers discussing agitatedly on VHF, easily...

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No doubt that Melwin and Kristian were in their right to continue, as skippers, and it is normal that they get their finish.

This being  said, the controversy is legitimate  … as mentioned, there was a precedent, in 1993 same circumstances (Biscay, but much bigger blow). Organizers asked the fleet to shelter, but still 6 boats were abandonned, 1 skipper lost. Thierry Dubois did not hear the calls and finished first. The suspicion that this was deliberate always stuck, but also he got respect from what he got through. But apart from “unfairness” sportmanship question, there is a collective dimension - the French equivalent of Coast guards took a hard look at the exposure  of the fleet  (it was not the first time) and it could have been the end of the Mini. So, breaking the ranks can be seen as endangering the event. 

Then again - I wonder if all those collective training centers, coaching etc. create a “groupthink” vibe that suppress individual choices. Desjoyaux was sneering at hid Figaro competitors as “sheep”, I can believe he would say the same here…

 

 

 

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On 10/7/2021 at 9:42 PM, r.finn said:

I trust it will come out on the wash.  The wash being leg 2.

Looks like the Ministes are less stoic.

Race director has 40(?) protests in his inbox to nullify the first leg and is said to be close to erupt like a vulcan.

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9 minutes ago, Kalimotxo said:

Looks like the Ministes are less stoic.

Race director has 40(?) protests in his inbox to nullify the first leg and is said to be close to erupt like a vulcan.

This wouldn't be the first time they did that.  Maybe class mini should just start the race in the canaries so competitors don't have to put their blood sweat and tears into delivering their boats to those islands.  Throwing out this first leg almost turns this into a matter of making a shipping appointment in Guadeloupe. I hope they don't go that route.

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35 minutes ago, Kalimotxo said:

Looks like the Ministes are less stoic.

Race director has 40(?) protests in his inbox to nullify the first leg and is said to be close to erupt like a vulcan.

A vulcan with not stones, but heads rolling down the mountain!

Indeed, a restart may be a "fair" solution, if only to keep the race exciting.

Also, not sure if I would want to be a race winner, while loosing the respect of my competitors (free to Paul Elvström).

That young guy still has plenty time and potential to win it properly, and that would make him a real hero...

 

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1 hour ago, Kalimotxo said:

Looks like the Ministes are less stoic.

Race director has 40(?) protests in his inbox to nullify the first leg and is said to be close to erupt like a vulcan.

Officially there are currently only two protests, both related to events on the course (infringement of TSS and missing the gate?)

Screen Shot 2021-10-12 at 17.16.12.png

Disclaimer this is from the website via the skipper area, which I have access to as a withdrawn skipper, it may not be up to date, but was apparently issued after the time limit for protests.

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4 hours ago, Kalimotxo said:

Race director has 40(?) protests in his inbox to nullify the first leg and is said to be close to erupt like a vulcan.

Source ?

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