Jump to content

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

 

 

Fully agree with ronnie_simpson

Good seamanship is not only an essential part of ocean racing but its foundation.

To be first, you first have to arrive.

 

 

Unfortunately, little is reported about backgrounds and details. It would be interesting to know which boats had already suffered damage in the first front and could do with a pit stop.

I find it hard to believe that the "lead group" went into port solely to "keep less experienced sailors in the back of the field from sailing further into the expected second storm".

 

For me it is absurd to claim that there was an agreement among the participants that all should go to port. Seems the tail is wagging the dog.

 

A total of seven boats sailed on. You don't read or hear anything about the four Protos, so they did everything right? Karg was in port only because he had to repair some gear, Copham finished 12th among the Protos, far enough behind not to be talked about.

 

Only Melwin Fink made the "mistake" of winning the stage..............?

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 346
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Seriously.........?¿? So from the comfort of your armchair, you have proclaimed that Teamwork is doing what is obvious, and therefore in the same vein, everyone else is just stupid. Good one.

Video of boats sailing always good. Irina, seasick for 5 days. auch. Maybe the reason for the hike to the coast.

It is starting today (delayed from yesterday due to weather)  Site : https://www.minitransat.fr/en/news/mini-transat-eurochef-j-1/ Tracker : http://minitransat.geovoile.com/2021/tr

Posted Images

Quote

MINI TRANSAT: WHAT HAPPENED ON THE FIRST STAGE

The first stage of the Mini Transat, won in the series division by German teenager Melwin Fink (19) with a big lead over his pursuers, has produced confusion, as he was one of the very few who did not to stop during a big storm. Now 19 requests for redress have been filed with the jury. Tip & Shaft reconstructed the facts by interviewing the main players.

Friday October 1, 10 a.m. While the first four prototypes are already almost to the south of Portugal, the bulk of the Mini Transat fleet is in the area off Cape Finisterre when they receives a BMS (special meteo bulletin) from race management. "A front was expected [Saturday at the end of the afternoon, Editor's note], with wind of 35-40 knots, potential gusts to 48-50, and a southwesterly seaway of 3.5 to 4 metres.” explains the race director Denis Hugues to Tip & Shaft.

"It didn't seem reasonable to me to send Minis in there, so we did a BMS on the tracker – a short text received on the Yellow Brick tags - and Christian Dumard drafted a longer one, broadcast every two hours via the support boats, but also on the BLU vacation of 3 p.m. UT. Competitors positioned in the North Finisterre zone and north of the South Finisterre zone were asked to take shelter while we were advising those in the south in the Porto area."

Two different instructions, which created uncertainty for some, as explained by Julien Pulvé, coach to the La Rochelle group who debriefed the stage on Wednesday with his racers: "They had the impression of having heard different messages between a request and advice to stop. They would have liked to hear something more definitive, either we neutralize the stage, or we read the BMS and interpret as whoever wants to stop should stop."

So from the leading pack of series boats, Julie Simon (4th of the stage) says: "We started to discuss it all among ourselves, we were trying to get more information, to know if the race was going to be neutralized. We were a little surprised not to have more precise directives." Denis Hugues responds: "We had debates on whether to neutralize or not, but there were four boats which had done well on the first front and the ridge. I did not see it as very very sporting to abandon for them."

Coach of the group from Lorient, Tanguy Leglatin adds: "It's part of the game of the Mini it's not the first time that this has happened. We must also remember that there have been tragedies; given the history, then the information from the race director was justified. Afterwards, perhaps the instructions could have been a little clearer, by saying: "From such and such a time, if you are not south of such and such a place we are telling you to go directly to port from such and such a time.""

Melwin fink traces
his course

Within the top group of the fleet, the discussions are in full swing. "We were doing the calculations, we said to ourselves that for us, it would pass, but the part of the fleet further north it was going to be tougher for longer and they would have to stop,” continues Julie Simon. "At one point, two competitors Federico Waksman and Hugo Picard - who relayed the request quite a bit in French and English - offered to stop. We naturally said to ourselves that it was normal to do so also if those behind us were obliged to take shelter, that seemed fair to us, we were not going to gain for three days." Anne-Claire Le Berre (6th on the stage) adds: "We finally decided to stop, telling ourselves that it was a shame to potentially put the whole Mini fleet in danger".

During Friday all the boats headed for shelter, in La Coruña, Camarinas, and in the bay of Muros and in Baiona for those further south. That was except for a few intrepid ones, including the German Melwin Fink who was 17th in the series fleet when the collective decision was taken, and the Austrian Christian Kargl (21st). "We arrived around 10pm in Baiona, it was only the next day that we discovered that they had carried on" explains Léo Debiesse (7th on the stage). "We thought they were going to stop in Porto." This was the case with Kargl who had battery problems, but not with Fink. "It was a bit of a wet blanket it was not in the plans," says Anne-Claire Le Berre.

Why didn't the German stop? Reached Thursday by email he responded: "After the storm warning which was replied a lot of times by the accompanying boats, there was a lot of traffic on VHF where they organised in which harbours all the boats will go. I was talking after the warning to Christian Kargl and we couldn’t understand why everybody went so early to the harbour. So we continued and wanted to go to a harbour which was in Portugal 85nm away which we should arrive on 2nd at noon but before we wanted to hear the two new weather forecasts from the race committee. They sad that for the Zone of Porto will be just 30 knots in average so Christian and me decided to continue and go as south as possible to have the weather less strong. Christian had empty batteries so he needed to go to a harbour but for me was no reason to go in a harbour, because my boat and me were in prefect conditions and I couldn’t see a reason to make a stop. At the moment I was still thinking that a lot of people continuing too. The communication on VHF was very bad, just French only the basics were translated".

Weird atmosphere in La Palma

In Baiona, the group agreed to set off again on Sunday at 6 am at staggered timings taking into account the classification of Friday morning. "Finally, as it was calm no one really managed to get out on time, except Julie Simon [who explained that she had to paddle Editor's note], the only one to have respected her scheduled scheduled time, we learned that the group in Muros had left before us at 3 am and so we were a little upset ”continues Anne-Claire Le Berre.

The exit from the bay of Muros was in light winds, but the group which had stopped there subsequently benefited from better conditions than the Baiona's one. Le Berre an engineer on Team Initiatives Coeur regrets: "After the second start, when you then realize that those who were far behind are in now front of you, you have a feeling of enormous injustice."

Needless to say at and after the finish in La Palma, the atmosphere is a little weird with Melwin Fink treading a bit warily. "He went to greet everyone, that's the best thing he could do. A lot of people were correct with him, we tried to understand his decision, which was different from ours, he didn't do anything illegal", comments Léo Debiesse.

19 sailors including Léo Debiesse lodged a protest to the international jury, so that the stopover time be deducted from the race time. "We don't want the standings to be completely disrupted, it's Melwin who won, but at least the gaps would be reduced," he explains. If she did not file a protest - the race committee on the other hand claimed against her for entering the TSS at Cape Finisterre - Julie Simon adds: "I finished 4th, my best performance in two years, but it is hard to find pleasure in it. This scenario takes credibility away from everyone's performance."

"The game remains open"

"It's hard to swallow for those who arrived in Baiona and had nothing to fix but then at the same time we see that others took advantage of the stopover to repair," said Jean-Marie Jézéquel, who left Muros an was 5th on the stage. "The first front had done a lot of damage, many were very happy to stop to fix. There is not one that has did not fix their boat in some way," confirms Denis Hugues, that includes Hugo Dhallenne, finally 3rd on the stage, who confirms: "I was in a position where I had repairs to do, the stopover allowed me to start again at 100%."

The protests will be studied from Monday by the international jury of five members, as explained to Tip & Shaft by its president Yves Léglise. Is a stage cancellation possible? "It is in the rules, but it has to be the last resort there it seems that other solutions can be considered, the trick is to find one which is least bad."

If the requests for redress are dismissed, Melwin Fink will attack the second leg with a cushion of 19 hours ahead of Christian Kargl and nearly 26 hours over Hugo Dhallenne. A tenable margin? "It's a lot, but it will depend on the trade winds: if it is strong enough, I think I can recover some time in speed, if it is around 12-15 knots, it will be more difficult.” Léo Debiesse adds: "If we look at the serial gaps in the last two editions of the Mini Transat, there are about 30 hours between the first and the tenth, so the game remains completely open."

https://mailchi.mp/tipandshaft/142-mini-transat-what-happened-on-the-first-stage-jrmie-beyou-we-have-a-bit-of-a-spirit-of-revenge?e=bb6a1198ac

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, yl75 said:

"It's hard to swallow for those who arrived in Baiona and had nothing to fix but then at the same time we see that others took advantage of the stopover to repair," said Jean-Marie Jézéquel, who left Muros an was 5th on the stage. "The first front had done a lot of damage, many were very happy to stop to fix. There is not one that has did not fix their boat in some way," confirms Denis Hugues, that includes Hugo Dhallenne, finally 3rd on the stage, who confirms: "I was in a position where I had repairs to do, the stopover allowed me to start again at 100%."

The race between Jézéquel and Dhallenne (just for example) would have been quite interesting without Dhallenne´s stopover repairwork.

14 hours ago, yl75 said:

19 sailors including Léo Debiesse lodged a protest to the international jury, so that the stopover time be deducted from the race time.

Those sailors who have been prudent to not damage their boats in the first front would be punished, while those who where in need of repairs (result of bad seamanship???) would be awarded. That´s not the way I´m looking on offshore racing.

One (theoretical) solution would have been to order all of the fleet in port, to strictly not allow any repairwork carried out in port and then starting the race again. Even this would put some sailors in disadvantage. The most clever way trough a storm is not necessarily the shortest way to the line. I for me would prefer to be in position 20 with my boat undammaged at the end of the front instead of beeing first with a boat which will not make it to the finish anymore or is limping. Winds are shifting, in particular at the backside of a front, quite often the first will be the last then and vice versa. To get an answer in which order the boats would have to (re-)start to take all this into consideration, one would have to go to Delphi.

ciao

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, yl75 said:

Holy sh...

That must be nasty for the deck hardware and everything ...

I'm quite sure that friction clutches don't respond well to shit loads of ash, nor winches... 

 

I wonder how this will affect the next leg in terms of breakages etc...

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2021 at 9:14 PM, Fiji Bitter said:

Bula Vinaka, Ronnie!

It looks like you made it safely back to Hawaï, must have been a bit of a long slog...

 

Bula Vinaka turaqa,

Yeah I sailed back to Hawaii in mid-May, arriving in mid June. It was 29 days hard on the wind, and it was fucking miserable, but the mighty Peterson 34 slayed it. I sold the Peterson and my Reynolds 33, and took a job on Maui driving charter catamarans. I just write for Lat 38 and SA, and others, on a remote and freelance basis, as I have done for many years. 

Sorry for the thread jack. 

Boats covered in tons of ash, crazy! The American proto skipper Jay Thompson pulled his keel and was doing some work related to the keel bearings. His instagram is quite interesting to follow. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2021 at 9:42 PM, Bulkwark said:

A total of seven boats sailed on. You don't read or hear anything about the four Protos, so they did everything right? Karg was in port only because he had to repair some gear, Copham finished 12th among the Protos, far enough behind not to be talked about.

The reason you don't hear about the four Proto's is because they had effectively made it to Cape Finisterre before the ridge of pressure that arrived before the 2nd front. Those leading Proto's basically sailed around Finisterre and made a grand escape and were in no danger from the 2nd front, while the rest of the fleet was stalled in a high pressure and lumpy seas and awaiting a second beating. 

It is a fascinating race to follow. A lot of 'coulda shoulda woulda' scenarios and surely some lessons learned. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree DTM.  In his case the OA stuffed up, they should have abandoned the leg for the non Protos (its just a delivery after all).  If the jury awards any redress for the boats that stopped it shows how weak the OA is. Fink sailed a great race and deserves to be days ahead going into the next leg.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at Tanguy’s boat on his IG page and I discover there is a pronounced bow chine.  

Do any Series boats  incorporate this or is that specific to his Proto?

Does the chine run around the hull completly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s 2021. Everyone wins a prize. 
 

Rgds,

 

CovBoy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So it appears you can be half pregnant.  If the RC made an error or omission then the boats that stopped should get 72 hours.  If the RC did not make an error or omission then there should be no redress.  By giving the boats 24 hours you have neither your arse nor your elbow.  If Fink does not win the race due to this decision this Jury should all hand in their Judges badges.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, peterbike said:

It's a very diplomatic & adult response.

Good call.

Diplomatic in the sense the diplomats to ponce about trying not to commit to anything or upset anyone.

At best this was a bodge job, at worst a brush it under the carpet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, trt131 said:

So it appears you can be half pregnant.  If the RC made an error or omission then the boats that stopped should get 72 hours.  If the RC did not make an error or omission then there should be no redress.  By giving the boats 24 hours you have neither your arse nor your elbow.  If Fink does not win the race due to this decision this Jury should all hand in their Judges badges.

72 Hours?  They stopped for 36 hours tops.  Typo?

Can/t see any way to give redress fairly in this situation.  Some boats who stopped effectively got a 'free time out' period to do repairs, that otherwise would have had the clock running.

Has anyone seen the actual text of the message sent to the fleet?  Is the jury decision posted anywhere (the minitransat site just has the time adjustments)?  I'd be curious to know the details that went into the decision.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Corryvreckan said:

Has anyone seen the actual text of the message sent to the fleet?

You'd probably need to ask individual competitors, any text would be sent individually as texts, unless you mean what they read out on vhf?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless it was requirement to stop, in which case those that didn't should get tossed, there should be no redress.  This was not a jury decision this is decision my majority vote.  Next they should investigate who made repairs during the stop over, who get extra sleep, who ate a meal not on the boat... I mean if we are going to assign redress based on nothing then lets take it away on the same basis.  Bad decision.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The International Jury clearly said the RC fucked up.

They had to make the best of all the possible bad decisions, and they did just that. You can moane forever afterwards at the bar, if you are so inlined, legend or not.

I'm just looking forward to a more exciting next leg.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

The International Jury clearly said the RC fucked up.

They had to make the best of all the possible bad decisions, and they did just that. You can moane forever afterwards at the bar, if you are so inlined, legend or not.

I'm just looking forward to a more exciting next leg.

 

I was definitely excited to see Fink try and Squid Game his way through the second leg.  This is just a restart.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

The International Jury clearly said the RC fucked up.

They had to make the best of all the possible bad decisions, and they did just that. You can moane forever afterwards at the bar, if you are so inlined, legend or not.

IMO some redress would have been fine, close the gap, but the podium should have stayed the way it was.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, r.finn said:

I was definitely excited to see Fink try and Squid Game his way through the second leg.  This is just a restart.

For Melvin Fink and now second Hugo Dhallenne (979 – YC Saint Lunaire), it is almost a restart, not quite for the others.

Melvin now has to proof that he has got what it takes to win, and he can be proud if he retains a podium place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...I see great potential for ALL sorts of racing with such "decisions":

marathonrunners or cycle racers get time allowances if stopping  because of rain-of course no allowance if only stopping to  tie shoelaces/change tires.

F1: time allowance  if box for wet tires

ad infinitum...

totally ridiculous!

(btw. @gentlemen's agreement: so if a majority "gentlemen-agrees" - this is binding for the non-agreeing minority too? interesting definition of "gentlemen"...)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2021 at 4:11 PM, Fiji Bitter said:

The International Jury clearly said the RC fucked up.

They had to make the best of all the possible bad decisions, and they did just that. You can moane forever afterwards at the bar, if you are so inlined, legend or not.

I'm just looking forward to a more exciting next leg.

 

Let’s get on with the racing.   This is not the America’s Cup.   No more lawyering.

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.minitransat.fr/en/news/de-petits-ajustements-pour-plus-dequite/

Despite the title, link is in English, the TL;DR; is they've further adjusted the time compensations, its now the length of your stop over up to a maximum of 24 hours, so 75 racers received 24hours, 5 more in the 20-24 hour range and with 14 hours for Christian Kargl acknowledging his stop over putting him back on the podium albiet in 3rd.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, r.finn said:

Bump.  Who else is running routing models for leg 2? 

http://minitransat.geovoile.com/2021/tracker/?leg=2

Is there any routing on te tracker? I'm finding Geovoile a bit tiring on my android tablet.

Good write up on the Mini website. They are right about Irina being especially fast in the light, she is leading by 2½ mile.

https://www.minitransat.fr/en/news/cap-sur-les-antilles/

(Oh I now see, same as Varan's Sail-World reprint.)

And indeed, surprise surprise, a quick look at Windy shows no tradewinds north of the Cape Verdes, and plenty of holes to sail into if you try to take a shortcut. Surely they will all continue south after El Hiello.

So, who will come up with the proper routing, please!

 

Edited by Fiji Bitter
Sail-World
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As mentioned in that article;

Heading into the unknown

In fact, in a few days, after plunging southwards for a while, the Mini sailors will have no other option than to hang a right to make for the Antilles Arc. At that stage, they’ll have to find the best possible compromise between making fast headway and sailing the least distance possible. “We’ll have to deal with the situation according to the weather reports we receive every day via SSB. One thing for sure: there will be a range of options. The name of the game here will be to not only make the right strategic choices, but also to manage to make fast headway for a long period”, added Tanguy Bouroullec.

In the past I could find the meteo they recieve by SSB, somewhere on meteo.fr. Not any more.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2021 at 8:30 PM, LeoV said:

Nice to have time between the legs to sort the mess out ...

I had to remind myself what sorta forum I was reading here - my mind wandered!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

I had to remind myself what sorta forum I was reading here - my mind wandered!

Metoo, still trying to forget when I was high and down there, and her boyfriend got jealous and jumped me from his upper bunkbed onto my bonkbed. The result was that I hit the spot with a bloody nose, and me saying that it was soo funny. I know, thread sex drift and too much information for this serious thread, but nevertheless best lunch cunt ever. Oh, and it was in between legs too, seriously!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What a pity.

Lina Rixgens abandoned, didn't even start. The keel bulb was falling off!!!

https://www.linarixgens.de/en/2021/10/30/premature-end-before-stage-2-of-the-mini-transat-2021/

250525055_286687190124695_6196611786092867992_n.thumb.jpg.6d622015857d74c7e13c2884edbb507e.jpg

 

Pilar Pasanau also abandoned after the start, with problems with the autopilot. How cool is this: she is 54 years old, her mini is named Peter Punk, she also sails in Class 40 and IMOCA, and her day job is on an ocean rescue tugboat!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Following this leg much closer than I did the first. 

 

At the moment I'm liking how the southern group are positioned, better chance of getting around the approaching high without slowing down as much. 

Conditions very nice so far. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

Following this leg much closer than I did the first. 

 

At the moment I'm liking how the southern group are positioned, better chance of getting around the approaching high without slowing down as much. 

Conditions very nice so far. 

There's certainly a wide range of routing strategies in play out there.  Looks like it's around a 250 miles spread north to south.  It'll be interesting to see how much the main pack in the middle will angle south before the hole opens up, and whether they'll be able to skirt it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also wondering whether the southern option will pay, by the way they get rankings updates every day I think, but do they also get the positions of the boats or at least the leaders ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Also wondering whether the southern option will pay, by the way they get rankings updates every day I think, but do they also get the positions of the boats or at least the leaders ?

Positions are not given. Just ranking and distance, not sure whether distance to finish o leader.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, cifrian said:

Positions are not given. Just ranking and distance, not sure whether distance to finish o leader.

Both distances show up if you hover over the boat on the tracker.  Dist. au but is to the finish (>2000), while Ecart au premier (<150-ish) is to the leader. 

http://minitransat.geovoile.com/2021/tracker/

Of course, being an ocean race, the distances to sail are always a dubious indication of which boat is doing well or poorly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

Both distances show up if you hover over the boat on the tracker.  Dist. au but is to the finish (>2000), while Ecart au premier (<150-ish) is to the leader. 

 

But the question is about what level of info the skippers receive regarding the others

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yl75 said:

But the question is about what level of info the skippers receive regarding the others

In the past it was only DTF that was given out in the morning broadcast to the fleet

Link to post
Share on other sites

Big shout out to Arno Biston on a 2005 Manuard proto #551.  He's best positioned to lead the fleet and has done a great job of playing the left side of the course to get there.  Apparently the word "express" in his boat's name because of how last minute his campaign was to put together and make the start.  Not bad.

Irina is right with him, and unfortunately it will be very difficult to get the nearly 10 hours she needs to put on the other three boats from the first leg.  Only hope is that they all sail into the hole that will effect the fleet on the 11/4, but that is an unlikely event as they are all making their way south now.  She did a great job of escaping south when she did.  

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, r.finn said:

Big shout out to Arno Biston on a 2005 Manuard proto #551.  He's best positioned to lead the fleet and has done a great job of playing the left side of the course to get there.  Apparently the word "express" in his boat's name because of how last minute his campaign was to put together and make the start.  Not bad.

Irina is right with him, and unfortunately it will be very difficult to get the nearly 10 hours she needs to put on the other three boats from the first leg.  Only hope is that they all sail into the hole that will effect the fleet on the 11/4, but that is an unlikely event as they are all making their way south now.  She did a great job of escaping south when she did.  

Absolutely - some people just have it. 

How detailed are the forecasts they receive during the race? I know it's done over SSB, but in what format? 

 

I guess what I'm trying to work out is what kind of "picture" they can build of what's forming in front of them- can they work out how far south they need to go to skirt the high, for example. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

Absolutely - some people just have it. 

How detailed are the forecasts they receive during the race? I know it's done over SSB, but in what format? 

 

I guess what I'm trying to work out is what kind of "picture" they can build of what's forming in front of them- can they work out how far south they need to go to skirt the high, for example. 

They give you the general situation with lows highs, front and ridges positions. And then they give the forecast for the large areas in which the course is divided. Biscay, cantabrico, Charcot....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Varan said:

Fink is looking like the real deal.

Maybe looking like it, but having the best DTF is meaningless at this stage. Probably a typical noob mistake even.

But being the most Western of the NW group is commendable nevertheless.

Still waiting for some weather routing info, anyone ffs? My Open CPN is not loaded on my new tablet as I cannot go anywhere, and I'm too lazy!

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Maybe looking like it, but having the best DTF is meaningless at this stage. Probably a typical noob mistake even.

 

True.  The stock market is not the economy.  Still betting on the south group.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

Am I the only one here that hopes Fink can pull out a big surprise?

Russell, you are not the only one.  I hope he wins big, again.  Go the Fink.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am wondering what the "tactic" of the French, race organisers & competitors, will be, if again a Krautophone (or beware TWO!) shows them "where Bartl fetches the cider" (as the german saying goes...)...(MF is in 1st place & CK is well placed in the south group...)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, tane said:

I am wondering what the "tactic" of the French, race organisers & competitors, will be, if again a Krautophone (or beware TWO!) shows them "where Bartl fetches the cider" (as the german saying goes...)...(MF is in 1st place & CK is well placed in the south group...)

Yes, show them where the frog has the curls :) 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody knows whether the "long term" (let's say up to 10 days) wheather forecasts that they had at the start of the leg has been accurate, or not ?

(basically was the Southern option quite clear on it, or not ?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tane said:

I am wondering what the "tactic" of the French, race organisers & competitors, will be, if again a Krautophone (or beware TWO!) shows them "where Bartl fetches the cider" (as the german saying goes...)...(MF is in 1st place & CK is well placed in the south group...)

In Austria the saying goes: "show them where the hammer hangs"

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, yl75 said:

Anybody knows whether the "long term" (let's say up to 10 days) wheather forecasts that they had at the start of the leg has been accurate, or not ?

(basically was the Southern option quite clear on it, or not ?)

It doesn't seem to be lining up with what we're seeing on the map there, even for today.  Minis do not go downwind at 8 knots in 5 knots of wind.  That said, over the last 24-36 hours models have been consistently showing the forbidden zone of light wind being pulled further north at each update.  I think what we're seeing on the course is that it's happening faster than forecast.  A few days ago I had models pushing minis as far south as 12 degrees, so...

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Bulkwark said:

Not so bad

Not so bad until you run out of wind, and then it's too late and there is nothing you can do. And with their very limited weather info, it all depends on their pre-race weather routing, and that is only a long term prediction after all.

In the end it's a bit of a gamble, but the safest bet is to stay with the Southern boats. Something like risk-reward optimization that comes with experience. That said, the dice can still roll either way.

Hope this makes sense, early morning here, and before coffee...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the northerners are getting absorbed now.  We'll see how long it lasts, but the southern investors have to get what they can now to make sure it was worth the extra miles.  I still like where Teamwork and Irina are positioned, and they are really making up the miles at the moment.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Historically since 1990 the most southward group never won. Before that I don not know.  Could this be the year.

Possibly.  It's been an unusual forecast.  Thanks for the stats.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Historically since 1990 the most southward group never won. Before that I don not know.  Could this be the year.

I bet that if you divide the fleet in half, that one of the bottom half boats won, at least sometimes... It's all relative anyway.

And were the boats even tracked pre 2000, by Argos? Or are those possibly your personal observations?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Own observations and info from design office who kept track.
I did not say half the fleet, most southern group. Just like rumbliners will not win.
Leading minists will have a black book with top sailors and their previous strategy and willingness to take fliers.
I expect a guy like Bouroullec to have a mental picture where his main competitors are. But with every day passing.... that will be less and less. Everyone gets outside vhf range and banter gets les too.

One flier I remember was Capey. You could ask him.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Bulkwark said:

In Austria the saying goes: "show them where the hammer hangs"

both "Kraut-phrases" imho (& believe me, as an "eastern forest dweller" (quote GPOAT!) both are classes as "Piefke"). "Our" phrase would be: "show them how to plow with the goat". :-) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The "South Bunch" is winning this phase of the leg. At the last update, the top 4 are now in the South bunch, I am afraid Hugo Picard, "the Sailing Frenchman" on Youtube is going to be swallowed by the light wind patch...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And at morning call the proto sailors will know the leading group is 6 boats all in the South.
They get position and DTF, after nr 6 there is a gap.

Link to post
Share on other sites