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What a clusterfuck this is. Kiwis have taken all the shitty bits of Larry's vision and added pure incompetence to the mix.

Something like this: NYYC after begging back AM wins AC37. Terry H. attributes the victory to the innovative use of Cross-Fit-clors, who were a bunch of meatheads from a New Jersey gym. Rather th

We’re an autonomous collective.    (We’re still doing Monty Python, right?)

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9 hours ago, E2nO said:

A petition, to hold a Special Meeting (to demand AC37 be sailed in Auckland) has been presented to RNZYS. Signed by Farmer (who has no,  RNZYS voting rights, as an honorary member) Dunphy and Hamish Ross, the petition contains 33 signatures, sufficient to force the meeting apparently.

No response from, Commodore, Young.

If you do the numbers, it's pretty obvious the petitioners will lose the motion.

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

A petition, to hold a Special Meeting (to demand AC37 be sailed in Auckland) has been presented to RNZYS. Signed by Farmer (who has no,  RNZYS voting rights, as an honorary member) Dunphy and Hamish Ross, the petition contains 33 signatures, sufficient to force the meeting apparently.

No response from, Commodore, Young.

If you do the numbers, it's pretty obvious the petitioners will lose the motion.

Maybe someone should collect signatures for a petition to kick them out and force a meeting on that issue. I'm betting they will get more than 33.

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Just now, ChairborneRanger said:

Maybe someone should collect signatures for a petition to kick them out and force a meeting on that issue. I'm betting they will get more than 33.

I'm not in touch with any Members these days, so I don't know what a majority might think. But my gut tells me they'll collectively be saying, "Fuck off, Farmer/Dunphy/Ross and petition members"

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23 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Maybe they didn't want angry Aucklanders booing when the venue isn't announced.

Whot is the "fairy princesses" making another announcement.;)

 

Oops I see this was covered a few posts later, should read more before posting, plus I am 23 hours slow.:unsure:

 

There's so much love for this "person".

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

A petition, to hold a Special Meeting (to demand AC37 be sailed in Auckland) has been presented to RNZYS. Signed by Farmer (who has no,  RNZYS voting rights, as an honorary member) Dunphy and Hamish Ross, the petition contains 33 signatures, sufficient to force the meeting apparently.

I doubt that even if in the remote chance that they succeeded in passing the motion that they could make it legally stick.

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Cyclors are back in the America’s Cup game.

The revolutionary cycle-power concept that helped Team New Zealand win the Auld Mug at Bermuda 2017 was outlawed for their successful defence at Auckland 2021.

But a move to reduce the crews on the energy-sapping 75-foot foiling monohulls from 11 sailors to eight for the next edition of the Cup, means cycle power is again legalised.

“We are opening the door on human power,” Team New Zealand designer Dan Bernasconi, who helped write the latest version of the AC75 Class Rule, confirmed as the America’s Cup protocol was released on Wednesday.

 

“Cyclors are back, if you want them … you can go with grinding or cycling.”

Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton wryly noted how this could be a major temptation for Sir Ben Ainslie’s challenger of record Britannia who have a strong link to the famous INEOS Grenadier cycling team through their mutual sponsorship links.

”They are in a good space with the cyclors if they want to go that way,” Dalton said. “They’d have access to the best (cycling) training and aerodynamics.”

Bernasconi said new aero control systems would also ease the power equation.

Bernasconi, the mastermind behind Team New Zealand’s winning Te Rehutai, believed the AC75 boats could take a significant leap forward with their performance at their second turn of Cup racing after making such an impact in Auckland.

There had been a real emphasis on improving the light air performance of the boat, which was one area that was exposed on its debut.

“There’s still a huge amount to learn on the AC75,” Bernsconi said.

“We have been working on refining the rule, just tweaking it, that will make for better performance, particularly in light airs.”

A lot of that was about weight reduction, helped by the removal of three sailors.

Team New Zealand and Team UK were reduced to a crawl on their hulls in Auckland at times.
RICKY WILSON/STUFF/STUFF
Team New Zealand and Team UK were reduced to a crawl on their hulls in Auckland at times.

They had also dropped the massive Code Zero foresail that was never used in Auckland, judged to be surplus to requirements given the remarkable speeds these boats sail at.

“Taking away the Code Zero removes a lot of weight and with other tweaks we are getting the boats about one ton lighter. In the light air they will be able to get up on their foils that much quicker.”

Also helping that will be increasing the span of the foil wings from 4m to 4.5m, making them more efficient across the wind range.

The foils themselves have also got reduced weight limits.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

What is the reason for this new 'LEQ12' yacht definition? The term appears all over the place in the Regs. The term surrogate is also used, apparently they are different. And: Can teams use their old test-boats?

11.78 LEQ12 yacht Any sailing yacht (or platform towed to simulate a sailing yacht) including an AC40 Class Yacht, that exceeds 6 m LOA, is less than or equal to 12 m LOA (including all fittings when sailing such as rudder struts and bowsprits) and that is capable of producing meaningful design or performance information for use either directly or indirectly in the design, construction or sailing of an AC75 Class Yacht, excuding yachts of classes existing on 17th March 2021, providing they are used only with their standard equipment for participation in and preparation for their in-class racing

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9 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Weight? Salaries? 

Yes to both. On weight, Bernasconi said the V2's will be a ton lighter, to help with earlier takeoff TWS conditions - something that screwed a bunch of AC36 races. There will also be no genoa... So why have a bowsprit at all?

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

image.thumb.png.4bab163e66aef2cf0b5e2d2b044f409a.png

Buying a V1AC75 and being allowed to sail it for just 20 days seems a very expensive proposition. Is it conceivable then that competitors (other than INEOS) will wait until 31st July to enter? This way previous challengers would be able to sail old boats at leisure (like LR’s doing right now), plus they could lease/share them with new teams. I’d love to see Alinghi setting up camp in Cagliari

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6 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Buying a V1AC75 and being allowed to sail it for just 20 days seems a very expensive proposition. Is it conceivable then that competitors (other than INEOS) will wait until 31st July to enter? This way previous challengers would be able to sail old boats at leisure (like LR’s doing right now), plus they could lease/share them with new teams

Interesting question.

The legal beagles are going to have a lot to think about, and this is a 'draft' and COR/D can apparently change the Prot and the Rule without competitor consent until... I forget the dates.

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting question.

The legal beagles are going to have a lot to think about, and this is a 'draft' and COR/D can apparently change the Prot and the Rule without competitor consent until... I forget the dates.

This is from the draft Technical Regulations:

6.1 These draft AC Technical Regulations and the draft AC75 Class Rule may be amended at any time by COR/D prior to the first official version being published. The AC Technical Regulations v1.0 and AC75 Class Rule v2.0 shall be published on 17th February 2022 NZDT.

 

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4 minutes ago, accnick said:

This is from the draft Technical Regulations:

6.1 These draft AC Technical Regulations and the draft AC75 Class Rule may be amended at any time by COR/D prior to the first official version being published. The AC Technical Regulations v1.0 and AC75 Class Rule v2.0 shall be published on 17th February 2022 NZDT.

 

Thanks. Does it take a majority-vote to make further changes after that?

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes to both. On weight, Bernasconi said the V2's will be a ton lighter, to help with earlier takeoff TWS conditions - something that screwed a bunch of AC36 races. There will also be no genoa... So why have a bowsprit at all?

Bingo

from America's Cup: 37th America's Cup begins with Protocol and Class Rule announcement (sail-world.com)

There are significant changes in the AC75 Class rule - chief of which is that the AC75 becomes the AC67.5, with the removal of the bowsprit - which has had the effect of shortening the boat and reducing weight.

 

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

from there too. What?

 

Tough nationality rule

Generally, all sailing crew will be required to be nationals of the country of the challenging or defending club or been resident in that country at the time of the finish of the 36th America's Cup - March 17, 2021.

The only exception will be for "Emerging Nations" or new teams which are defined as a country which has never previously been the holder of the America's Cup. That eliminates Switzerland, Australia, USA and of course New Zealand.

However, a lot more countries are caught by the second criteria, which precludes challengers from a country who has not submitted a challenge since the final race of the 30th America's Cup or the 2000 event sailed in Auckland. That catches Italy. France, Sweden and Great Britain.

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38 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Cost.  

I feel like I'm just shouting into the void here, but I remain opposed to a sailing event where about 3-4 guys control the boat while the rest grind/pedal continuously. In AC35 a bunch of the ETNZ "cyclors" had never even sailed competitively before. And this is the most elite inshore sailing event we have.

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

However, a lot more countries are caught by the second criteria, which precludes challengers from a country who has not submitted a challenge since the final race of the 30th America's Cup or the 2000 event sailed in Auckland. That catches Italy. France, Sweden and Great Britain.

That's an awkwardly written paragraph, but I assume that also precludes China, South Africa, Spain, Germany, and Japan. Odd, because surely a few of those should be considered "emerging" for the purposes of the AC.

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4 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

That's an awkwardly written paragraph

Sure is.. I wonder where he got this 'second criteria' from? What I saw said none of that.

edit: from the Prot

30.3 Emerging Nations

(a) A Challenger or prospective team who has advised the Defender of their intention to challenge for AC37 (a “Prospective Challenger”) may apply to COR/D for:

(i) a ruling that the country of the yacht club will be considered as an Emerging Nation for the purposes of this Article 30; and

(ii) a dispensation from the crew nationality requirements of Article 30.1 to allow a specific number of approved non-nationals to compete as crew on the Competitor’s AC75 Yacht or AC40 Yacht.

(b) Such applications shall be determined by COR/D in its sole discretion.

(c) If a country is approved as an Emerging Nation by COR/D, the number of nonnationals approved to compete on the yacht of that Challenger will be determined by COR/D based on the following factors:

(i) the experience (including America’s Cup racing) and skill level of the Challenger’s or Prospective Challenger’s sailing team;

(ii) the experience and skill level of each non-national sailor either engaged or whom the Challenger or Prospective Challenger proposes to engage for AC37; and

(iii) other relevant circumstances of the Challenger or Prospective Challenger.

(d) Approvals under this Article will be given for specific sailors and may be amended or reviewed by COR/D, at their sole discretion at a later date upon application by a Competitor if there is a change of personnel or a change in other relevant circumstances.

(e) It shall be the responsibility of COR/D to ensure that the decisions made under this Article are as far as possible equitable in relation to other Competitors. 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Sure is.. I wonder where he got this 'second criteria' from? What I saw said none of that.

From the Protocol:

Emerging Nation means a country which:
(a) has never had a yacht club be the holder of the America’s Cup Trophy;
(b) has not submitted one or more challenges for the America’s Cup since the final race of the 30th
America’s Cup Match; or
is otherwise considered by COR/D to be an Emerging Nation for the purpose of Article 30.3;

Always nice to just build in a loophole or two. "You're an emerging country if you haven't held the AC or haven't challenged since 2000 or just kidding it's whoever we want."

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2 hours ago, Xlot said:

I notice it’s still Emirates Team New Zealand. Implications?

It has been Emirates TNZ since they won... Every communication from the team has had that.. I understand that people want to believe Emirates was going to drop the team because the airline industries woes, but from what evidence we can actually gather, that never happened.

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Buying a V1AC75 and being allowed to sail it for just 20 days seems a very expensive proposition. Is it conceivable then that competitors (other than INEOS) will wait until 31st July to enter? This way previous challengers would be able to sail old boats at leisure (like LR’s doing right now), plus they could lease/share them with new teams. I’d love to see Alinghi setting up camp in Cagliari

Seems a lot cheaper then hiring designers to design one, and builders to build one. Probably EXPONENTIALLY cheaper overall. 

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A comment from Ben Ainslie: ‘This is my best shot at winning the America’s Cup for Britain’ | Evening Standard

Of the potential hosts, which will be decided by the defending champions, Ainslie added: “For our team, Cork would be amazing – it’ll almost be like a home race, just an hour across the Irish Sea.”

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Buying a V1AC75 and being allowed to sail it for just 20 days seems a very expensive proposition. Is it conceivable then that competitors (other than INEOS) will wait until 31st July to enter? This way previous challengers would be able to sail old boats at leisure (like LR’s doing right now), plus they could lease/share them with new teams. I’d love to see Alinghi setting up camp in Cagliari

If you are willing to pay whatever the 'late fee' is, then it seems to me you can do whatever you like before entering (and so then becoming an 'existing team') up until May 31 2023. 

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35 minutes ago, Sisu3360 said:

That's an awkwardly written paragraph, but I assume that also precludes China, South Africa, Spain, Germany, and Japan. Odd, because surely a few of those should be considered "emerging" for the purposes of the AC.

I read the emerging nations language as relating to crew nationalities not to challenger countries

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

If you are willing to pay whatever the 'late fee' is, then it seems to me you can do whatever you like before entering (and so then becoming an 'existing team') up until May 31 2023. 

Hmmm... from here, bold mine. edit: oh, this may not relate to entering late

Lights, Camera... ACTION! 37th America's Cup Protocol and Class Rules are here! • Live Sail Die

Entry Fees

Get ready to raid the piggy bank!!!

The first installment of the initial entry fee is US$1,000,000. And then the second installment of US$1,250,000.00 needs to be paid by the 1st September 2022.

And then there are the additional fees.

ACPI contribution – US$25,000
Website contribution – US$150,000
Performance Bond – US$1,000,000

And you wouldn’t want to be late with the payments because you will be hit with a late payment fee of US$100,000 per month! And then there are the fees for the preliminary regattas.

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1 hour ago, Sisu3360 said:

I feel like I'm just shouting into the void here, but I remain opposed to a sailing event where about 3-4 guys control the boat while the rest grind/pedal continuously. In AC35 a bunch of the ETNZ "cyclors" had never even sailed competitively before. And this is the most elite inshore sailing event we have.

If you are going to have most of the control systems on the boat be hydraulic, and the hydraulics be charged by human-power, then cyclors are the correct solution. It is >40% more efficient.

Saying they have to do it with their arms because grinders on sailboats use their arms is actually illogical, because this role is not a “grinder”. They are not on a winch pulling lines. They should not call them grinders; maybe “human pressure generators”.

But I actually agree with you, because I just don’t identify with hydraulic (or battery) controlled wings, foils and rudders, or human pressure generators on America’s Cup sailboats. 

It seems like we’re moving toward software flight control in races and then it’s a hop skip and jump to software control of all the hydraulics, and you end up with four guys pedaling, a guy steering and one or two guys on the computer. Is that America’s Cup sailing?

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from here, bold mine America's Cup: Grant Dalton throws out his lure. Who will he catch? | Stuff.co.nz

Startup syndicates are able to purchase a first edition AC75 and Dalton confirmed Team New Zealand had “two offers on the table for their first boat”.

Both were from new teams, which he saw as a promising sign.

“There are always two barriers put up when it comes to entering the America's Cup - money and technology,” Dalton said.

“But teams will always spend what they want to spend, you can’t control that. The British, Swiss and Italians will spend a fortune, and good on them, they are able to.

 

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1 hour ago, atwinda said:

It has been Emirates TNZ since they won... Every communication from the team has had that.. I understand that people want to believe Emirates was going to drop the team because the airline industries woes, but from what evidence we can actually gather, that never happened.

If that is the case, why is Dalton crying about funding?

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49 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

But I actually agree with you, because I just don’t identify with hydraulic (or battery) controlled wings, foils and rudders, or human pressure generators on America’s Cup sailboats. 

That’s what I was getting at.

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45 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I like the evolution of the boat - seems sensible to me.

The lower limit TWS was too low for AC75 V1's in AC36. Since they want to stick to that wind range it makes all kinds of sense to lighten the boat and to increase foil size. 

But the boats are still a touch too energy-hungry and cyclers look ridiculous. Solid wings would have solved much of that.

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There is a $20,000,000 poison pill in Section 23.2(d) for any team that wins the cup this time around and refuses to use AC75's in AC38. To wit:

"(d) an obligation to pay liquidated damages of twenty million US Dollars (US$20,000,000) (or the maximum sum which may otherwise be permitted by applicable law) into a bank account nominated by COR/D to be shared equally between the non-breaching parties to the Deed of Participation;"

I think you can make a credible argument that Section 23.2(a) and (b), which require the winner and any challenger in AC37 to use the AC75 in AC38, violates the Deed. But the liquidated damages provision would be fine, and it's not small. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Thanks. Does it take a majority-vote to make further changes after that?

Here's all the amendment language from the draft rule. You can figure it out from this.

6.2 The AC75 Class Rule may be amended: 

a) at any time by COR/D whilst in draft format;

(b) at any time by unanimous consent of Competitors, either:

    (i) via the mechanism described in Rules 6.5; or

    (ii) by another process;

(c) at any time by the Rules Committee, with the agreement of COR/D and the Regatta Director (if they have been appointed), for changes relating to:

    (i) supplied or specified components;

    (ii) the supplied ultrasonic transmitter specified in the “Foil Wings” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (iii) standard pressure relief valves and the supplied high-pressure accumulator specified in the “Hydraulics” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (iv) the use of Samsung Knox management software specified in the “Crew information system” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (v) safety;

    (vi) media specifications; or

    (vii) event branding, including their impact on masses and centres of mass controlled by AC75 Class Rule.

In making any such amendments, the Rules Committee shall consider the impact of their proposed changes on all Competitors, taking account of the state of their design and construction programmes, so that any burden imposed is commensurate to the need for amendment.

(d) by COR/D alone for the items listed in Rule 6.2 (c) if the Rules Committee has not yet been appointed.

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8 minutes ago, porthos said:

I think you can make a credible argument that Section 23.2(a) and (b), which require the winner and any challenger in AC37 to use the AC75 in AC38, violates the Deed. But the liquidated damages provision would be fine, and it's not small. 

How would it 'be fine' if (and I agree) it violates the Deed?

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

How would it 'be fine' if (and I agree) it violates the Deed?

Liquidated damages by definition give a party a choice: stick with the contract or opt out for a price. That choice can convert an impermissible restriction into a permissible one, as the restriction is no longer mandatory. Here, the attempt to control AC38 through the AC37 protocol violates the Deed, but the control provisions are essentially optional as a party in AC37 can ignore the AC75 requirements and use whatever boat it wants in AC38 provided it pays the fee. There is nothing inherently wrong about getting the agreement of a challenger to pay a fee if it wants to use some boat other than an AC75 in AC38.

The other wrinkle is that under New York law, a liquidated damages provision has to be a reasonable estimate of the actual damages and cannot be so large as to be a financial penalty, which is probably why the liquidated damages clause can be modified to the "maximum sum" permitted by law. Given that this is the AC, the $20,000,000 may fly, but a court could certainly reduce it.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

This looks new

from New deadline for America's Cup venue | Stuff.co.nz

In a significant development, the new protocol allows defender Team New Zealand to sail in the initial round-robin phase of the challenger series, giving the Kiwis invaluable insights into their opponents and racing practice ahead of The Match.

 

Hold on, wasn't that a point of contention for Alinghi's thwarted AC33 SNG defense, and something people were screaming bloody murder about?

What happened to the separation of challengers and defender?

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Just now, CheekyMonkey said:

Hold on, wasn't that a point of contention for Alinghi's thwarted AC33 SNG defense, and something people were screaming bloody murder about?

What happened to the separation of challengers and defender?

Am I remembering correctly that Oracle sailed in the round robin in Bermuda? 

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12 minutes ago, CheekyMonkey said:

Hold on, wasn't that a point of contention for Alinghi's thwarted AC33 SNG defense, and something people were screaming bloody murder about?

What happened to the separation of challengers and defender?

Like with Oracle in Bermuda, ETNZ has decided to participate in the RR's but with no points scored, leaving their Challenger opponents free to back off should they choose. It seems in this case like an attempt to provide more racing for TV, something that was badly lacking in AC36 given only 3 Challengers and the AM wipeout. Some Kiwis here attacked the Bermuda format but will do another sudden about-face on this :)

Like in Bermuda it does not include the semis and finals, the actual knockout series.

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Like with Oracle in Bermuda, ETNZ has decided to participate in the RR's but with no points scored, leaving their Challenger opponents free to back off should they choose. It seems in this case like an attempt to provide more racing for TV, something that was badly lacking in AC36 given only 3 Challengers and the AM wipeout. Some Kiwis here attacked the Bermuda format but will do another about-face on this :)

Like in Bermuda it does not include knockout series.

As long as it doesn’t carry points over to the match like it did in Bermuda, it’s fine with me. No one gains anything, no one loses anything. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

A comment from Ben Ainslie: ‘This is my best shot at winning the America’s Cup for Britain’ | Evening Standard

Of the potential hosts, which will be decided by the defending champions, Ainslie added: “For our team, Cork would be amazing – it’ll almost be like a home race, just an hour across the Irish Sea.”

Biggest problem for Ainslie's team this time around, is he's drinking from the, CoR poisoned chalice. Ask the Italians about that one.

As an aside, GD gave the Italians an elbow to ribs, when he was talking with Shirley this morning about relationships with the CoR. ;-)

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Biggest problem for Ainslie's team this time around, is he's drinking from the, CoR poisoned chalice. Ask the Italians about that one.

As an aside, GD gave the Italians an elbow to ribs, when he was talking with Shirley this morning about relationships with the CoR. ;-)

Yes, noticed that too but: Wait for it... :)

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17 minutes ago, CheekyMonkey said:

Hold on, wasn't that a point of contention for Alinghi's thwarted AC33 SNG defense, and something people were screaming bloody murder about?

What happened to the separation of challengers and defender?

Where the hell were you back in March this year?

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It has been a lot of fun here speculating about team progressions and maybe the new 'spies commercialized' coverage will make it even better but: This 'shared recon' thing by ACE with Dalts probably in control is almost certainly going to go haywire somehow! 

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46 minutes ago, accnick said:

Here's all the amendment language from the draft rule. You can figure it out from this.

6.2 The AC75 Class Rule may be amended: 

a) at any time by COR/D whilst in draft format;

(b) at any time by unanimous consent of Competitors, either:

    (i) via the mechanism described in Rules 6.5; or

    (ii) by another process;

(c) at any time by the Rules Committee, with the agreement of COR/D and the Regatta Director (if they have been appointed), for changes relating to:

    (i) supplied or specified components;

    (ii) the supplied ultrasonic transmitter specified in the “Foil Wings” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (iii) standard pressure relief valves and the supplied high-pressure accumulator specified in the “Hydraulics” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (iv) the use of Samsung Knox management software specified in the “Crew information system” section of the AC75 Class Rule;

    (v) safety;

    (vi) media specifications; or

    (vii) event branding, including their impact on masses and centres of mass controlled by AC75 Class Rule.

In making any such amendments, the Rules Committee shall consider the impact of their proposed changes on all Competitors, taking account of the state of their design and construction programmes, so that any burden imposed is commensurate to the need for amendment.

(d) by COR/D alone for the items listed in Rule 6.2 (c) if the Rules Committee has not yet been appointed.

So unanimous, rather than majority.

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It has been a lot of fun here speculating about team progressions and maybe the new 'spies commercialized' thing will make it even better but: This 'shared recon' thing is almost certainly going to go haywire somehow! 

Ha, ha. Is 'no secrets' America's Cup really going to be a thing? Some how, I doubt it. Looking forward to 'shared recon' though - if for no other reason than not having to wade through all the 'arms' shit that usually gets published on these boards. ;-)

Will also give @weta27 some competition

Edited by Sailbydate
Call out to WETA
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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ha, ha. Is 'no secrets' America's Cup really going to be a thing? Some how, I doubt it. Looking forward to 'shared recon' though - if for no other reason than not having to wade through all the 'arms' shit that usually gets published on these boards. ;-)

I think the analysis here will continue to be fun, and likely better too if they (as they say they will do) make public a bunch of observation data. We have spent endless hours triangulating stuff, trying to figure boatspeeds and such, guessing windspeeds by the whitecaps, etc, etc, but this could take us to a better-informed discussion-space.

Competitors are no longer allowed to run their own on-the-water recon teams who can focus on specific items of interest but they, like anyone else, can of course shoot from the shore... And if they 'cheat' then maybe from 'spectator' boats too?  

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

I think the analysis here will continue to be fun, and likely better too if they (as they say they will do) make public a bunch of observation data. We have spent endless hours triangulating stuff, trying to figure boatspeeds and such, guessing windspeeds by the whitecaps, etc, etc, but this could take us to a better-informed discussion-space.

Competitors are no longer allowed to run their own on-the-water recon teams who can focus on specific items of interest but they, like anyone else, can of course shoot from the shore... And if they 'cheat' maybe from 'spectator' boats too?  

And don't forget the, seagulls! :P

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Sounds like the AC is trying to cash in on f1's success with Drive to Survive, but how exactly are they going to regulate teams spying on their own?

Also, this whole thing about new teams being able to sail more than existing teams... is there anything stopping, say, Luna Rossa from becoming Luna Rossa 2 and getting the perks of being a "new" team?

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8 minutes ago, crashtack said:

Sounds like the AC is trying to cash in on f1's success with Drive to Survive, but how exactly are they going to regulate teams spying on their own?

Also, this whole thing about new teams being able to sail more than existing teams... is there anything stopping, say, Luna Rossa from becoming Luna Rossa 2 and getting the perks of being a "new" team?

Seems to me that you are not an existing team until you enter AC37.. Yes, this gets interesting. It's possible that ETNZ and Ineos will be hampered by sailing and other restrictions for a lot longer than teams who challenge much later.

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11 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Speaking of swallows, had a beautiful, juvenile Welcome Swallow dive bomb one of my ranch sliders this morning. Its speed and the impact broke it tiny neck, sadly. Maybe the teens need to be fitted with crash helmets. Or, maybe I won't wash the windows again! :(

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Speaking of swallows, had a beautiful, juvenile Welcome Swallow dive bomb one of my ranch sliders this morning. Its speed and the impact broke it tiny neck, sadly. Maybe the teens need to be fitted with crash helmets. Or, maybe I won't wash the windows again! :(

I have birds hitting my windows too sometimes, sad for sure but my Siamese loves it!

Maybe flexible windows are in order?

 

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from Rule69 at Protocolour – Rule69.blog

I’m extremely fortunate to have been given the draft of the AC 37 Protocol under embargo to mull for a few hours before its issuance to the world and that’s given me the time to pore and ponder over several details. On reflection, it’s good. It’s fine. It’s highly professional. It moves the dial forward. Does it go far enough? The jury’s out. But the America’s Cup is happening in 2024 and that’s just an eye-blink away.

...

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55 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It has been a lot of fun here speculating about team progressions and maybe the new 'spies commercialized' coverage will make it even better but: This 'shared recon' thing by ACE with Dalts probably in control is almost certainly going to go haywire somehow! 

Time will tell, but if COR agreed to it, it can't actually be that bad and must have merits.

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57 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Biggest problem for Ainslie's team this time around, is he's drinking from the, CoR poisoned chalice. Ask the Italians about that one.

As an aside, GD gave the Italians an elbow to ribs, when he was talking with Shirley this morning about relationships with the CoR. ;-)

The Relationship between the Kiwis and Brits seem to be better though mate. Both Teams really took their time to negotiate this Protocol. They took more than twice the time the Kiwis and the Italians did which was only 3 months. AC37 Protocol took 8 months to be finalized.

Remember: There were around 40 Cases headed to the Arb Panel during the AC36 Cycle which was the most during modern AC Cycles where you had a Multi-Challenger Event.

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51 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ha, ha. Is 'no secrets' America's Cup really going to be a thing? Some how, I doubt it. Looking forward to 'shared recon' though - if for no other reason than not having to wade through all the 'arms' shit that usually gets published on these boards. ;-)

Will also give @weta27 some competition

It could be great, plus people need to actually watch Drive to Survive, unlike TE, who said it was bland and did nothing for F1.

They don't show the secrets or the tech, but still make a great show about the secrets and the tech. 

AC can do the same with a good production company.

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3 minutes ago, ChairborneRanger said:

Did anyone else think Ben didn't have a full grasp of the details of the protocol, while James Allison did?

Know bugger all about JA, but he's impressed me already in that presentation this morning. 

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6 hours ago, ChairborneRanger said:

Maybe someone should collect signatures for a petition to kick them out and force a meeting on that issue. I'm betting they will get more than 33.

Classic example of the intolerance and ignorance that is so pervasive in our society.  

Not all members have to agree and they are perfectly in their right to bring up the discussion.  It can be discussed, voted upon and then move on with what the major determine the outcome.  This automatic, knee-jerk reaction to hang whomever disagrees with you is so immature.  The strength in our democracies is the differences in our view points and our ability to compromise and harness the commonly agreed upon points out of all ideas.

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3 minutes ago, Varan said:

Diversionary tactic. ETNL already figured out it is a no go. The beauty of keeping the protocol secret for as long as you can. 

But hats off to them for publishing wind limits before naming the venue. Gosh... 21kt upper limit? Where is the fun in that?

No need to fit an electronic speed limiter, with the published Rule speed of 52 knots, that way. ;-)

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Classic example of the intolerance and ignorance that is so pervasive in our society.  

Not all members have to agree and they are perfectly in their right to bring up the discussion.  It can be discussed, voted upon and then move on with what the major determine the outcome.  This automatic, knee-jerk reaction to hang whomever disagrees with you is so immature.  The strength in our democracies is the differences in our view points and our ability to compromise and harness the commonly agreed upon points out of all ideas.

I take it the USA is your shining example of a democracy? 

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