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hull deck joint resealing


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This winter I want to fix an issue with my H-boat I always postponed or temporarily adressed ever since it came out the yard with a new paint job. This time for good.

Yard painted both hull and topsides seperately and then sealed the small gap where coaming meets the hull with some 3M. Which worked but only lasted a few years. Redid it once and used some lesser compound so it lasted an even shorter period.

My plan is to remove all the sealant, let the boat dry over winter in case there is any moisture at all(unheated warehouse), and then run a bead of thickened epoxy in spring for a lasting seal.

My question is if there are any obvious pitfalls I should be aware of and if using only one epoxy is a viable idea or if I should accept that I'll need to paint it afterwards for UV resistance? I still do have a small bottle of the 2k paint used for both the hull and top sides.(occasional scratch repair)

Doing a second pass shouldn't be that difficult since while going around the boat is quite some distance, the area that would need scuffing is ultimately small. More pain redoing the masking tape and later polishing than anything else.

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Use UV resistant caulking 

Sika... can’t remember the number ...UV 

 

if this is simply a cosmetic bead of caulking ...teak deck systems .. TDS deck caulking is UV resistant and available in most marine stores 

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6 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Use UV resistant caulking 

Sika... can’t remember the number ...UV 

 

if this is simply a cosmetic bead of caulking ...teak deck systems .. TDS deck caulking is UV resistant and available in most marine stores 

Sikaflex 295 UV.

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Pretty unanimous for simply using sika295uv then.

Kind of hoped for a different outcome, but advice has not steered me wrong here yet!
Besides that was probably what they used the first time around and it was my mistake to take off the shelf  sika that led to early degradation.

Going to post pics when the boat is out of the water and I've started removing the old crap. Until then I want to ask about opinions about bead... width?
Personally I'd like to go for a small radius, say 4mm.

Save myself some additional work and material. Also wondered if I could then just run another bead on top with a larger radius, 10mm, once the first one starts degrading so that I only need to deal with removal every other time.

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an overlooked detail, that can make a lot of difference to the durability of the boat. Replace the sealants every couple of years. also check the sealants at the hardware.

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4 minutes ago, JMOD said:

also check the sealants at the hardware.

How would I do that without removing everything?
For reference, I do keep an eye on moisture as well as stains or the like to find any potential leaks (also no sandwhich core on the boat, just full laminate). And it is all bone dry since I redid the V-berth hatch.

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7 hours ago, allweather said:

Also wondered if I could then just run another bead on top with a larger radius, 10mm, once the first one starts degrading so that I only need to deal with removal every other time.

Attempting to stick any sort of adhesive to a degraded surface is a recipe for failure.

As a short term bodge to get out of a jam, O/K but otherwise?

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Just to be sure, no go to have a larger fillet that overlaps enough to also touch 2-3mm pristine hull? The hard way it is then...

Though I am still considering to clean up the "crack" with epoxy and then add the fillet with Sika afterwards. Is there any reason why epoxy could be an issue? UV stability aside.

Bit difficult to explain until I've opened up the joint and took some pictures. But right now the actual, not watertight, gap is 1-2mm wide. I'd like to seal that with epoxy(no fillet) so that just in case the sika ever fails before I got to replace it the area would still be watertight.

Reasonable or idiotic idea?

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As noted upthread, you are unlikely to be able to get the joint clean enough for epoxy to bond properly. It like virgin surfaces.

Pics of the joint would help.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Pics of the joint would help.

I'll provide those. Boat will be lifted end of october and removing old sealant as well as dropping the rudder will be the first tasks.
Until then I already have a roadmap on what to order.

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I don't know, I think that if you ran a carbide ball or some other abrasive of the appropriate shape for the gap in question, you could expose enough virgin surface to get good epoxy adhesion. If we were talking about a hull-deck joint that was leaking into the boat, it's absolutely the way I'd go. If we're really just talking about filling a deep channel, it would be a lot less work just to run a bead of sealant but with an abraded surface, I think the epoxy+paint solution would be a good one and a lot longer lasting even if it's more work up front.

In either case, some pictures sure would be a good addition to the thread.

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Sika used in conjunction with the sika primer and proper prep is a very effective long term goop.

TDS white is also very resilient, more flexible and holds it's color better than most.

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So your talking hull-to-deck joint, but only talking about replacing the sealant bead on the exterior of that joint?  Do I have that right?

If so, I'm not sure you can ever "fix it for good" without lifting the deck clear of the hull, cleaning all the old goop off, and starting new.  That, of course, would be a "HUGE" project.  But no amount of replacing goop (no matter how great the goop is) on the outside of the joint is going to permanently solve the problem.  You face a choice of goop every couple of 5 years or so, cleaning everything to be spotlessly clean and glassing the joint with epoxy (then re-painting), or opening the actual joint and redoing it - which as mentioned, is a HUGE undertaking...

Or, living with a small leak or two...:unsure: 

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I resealed the hull/deck on my previous boat (a Pearson 28-2) with butyl (from Maine Sail) after reading that c&c used it. It worked great for the time that I owned the bot and solved a bunch of leaks that I had. 

I think butyl’s lack of drying out and ability to bridge big gaps works well in this application.  It’s not perfect for all applications.  
 

My current boat has a glassed hull/deck joint with tape and epoxy around the interior and maybe exterior. I think that would be hard to retrofit. 

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9 hours ago, allweather said:

Just to be sure, no go to have a larger fillet that overlaps enough to also touch 2-3mm pristine hull? The hard way it is then...

Though I am still considering to clean up the "crack" with epoxy and then add the fillet with Sika afterwards. Is there any reason why epoxy could be an issue? UV stability aside.

Bit difficult to explain until I've opened up the joint and took some pictures. But right now the actual, not watertight, gap is 1-2mm wide. I'd like to seal that with epoxy(no fillet) so that just in case the sika ever fails before I got to replace it the area would still be watertight.

Reasonable or idiotic idea?

Use caulking 

if there is movement in the joint epoxy will fail 

if you go with caulking use a beading profile  tool

i prefer the  45 degrees profile  over a quarter round for longevity 

the quarter round is to thin for exterior joints 

 

 

 

CCD43A35-626B-45D7-9F84-F529BB4D8221.jpeg

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10 hours ago, Crash said:

your talking hull-to-deck joint

Poor phrasing on my part. The proper joint of deck and hull is glassed solidly. No issues or need to do anything there.

It is however a polyester boat and there is a small gap between deck and hull paint that leaves laminate susceptible to water and eventual osmosis.
That is all the bead is there to prevent.

 

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On 9/27/2021 at 8:34 AM, slug zitski said:

Use UV resistant caulking 

Sika... can’t remember the number ...UV 

 

if this is simply a cosmetic bead of caulking ...teak deck systems .. TDS deck caulking is UV resistant and available in most marine stores 

As usual Sluggo weighing in with the wrong advice.  TDS deck caulking is great stuff FOR A TEAK DECK. However, it contains silicone so you wouldn’t be able to paint it.  

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4 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

As usual Sluggo weighing in with the wrong advice.  TDS deck caulking is great stuff FOR A TEAK DECK. However, it contains silicone so you wouldn’t be able to paint it.  

Sure 

any painter knows how to deal with silicone 

TDS is easy to use and leaves a superior  long lasting bead 

It requires no paint to protect it 

 

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5 hours ago, allweather said:

Poor phrasing on my part. The proper joint of deck and hull is glassed solidly. No issues or need to do anything there.

It is however a polyester boat and there is a small gap between deck and hull paint that leaves laminate susceptible to water and eventual osmosis.
That is all the bead is there to prevent.

 

Well, now I am confused. It sounds like you are describing a deck placed on an inward hull flange and the edge of the deck laminate is exposed? Pics would help. Otherwise, some good, practical advice above.

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4 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Sure 

any painter knows how to deal with silicone 

TDS is easy to use and leaves a superior  long lasting bead 

It requires no paint to protect it 

 

Assuming white topsides paint and white or a light tan or gray deck paint, you’re going to put a black bead of caulking between the two?  Maybe on the shitboxes you sail on. 

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6 hours ago, Al Paca said:

Assuming white topsides paint and white or a light tan or gray deck paint, you’re going to put a black bead of caulking between the two?  Maybe on the shitboxes you sail on. 

It's comes in white and as above lasts along time without discoloration.  I used white TDS in the seam between our cabin house and the deck.  Have not redone in a whole lotta years still looks fine.

Some runabouts use white too on the fore deck.

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16 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

It's comes in white and as above lasts along time without discoloration.  I used white TDS in the seam between our cabin house and the deck.  Have not redone in a whole lotta years still looks fine.

Some runabouts use white too on the fore deck.

I did not know that. It is good stuff. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, that looks worse than I thought on the picture. Was one of the areas I opened up to take a closer look. Boat will be out of the water in a week and in a hangar where I'll remove everything fully and set things to dry for some time...

Misremembered how it was in part...

As is the "joint" is just an ugly line where the two paints meet. However the job will be slightly more work intense because in some areas the paint came off. So I'll be checking everywhere for any lose chips, cleaning up the area and repaint those while I am at it.

In most places however it is more a question of aesthetics than exposed laminate(second picture). So my current plan is to simply prep the surface and paint over, sand and polish to a mirror finish afterwards and leave things.

2021-10-15-balu-deck_joint-4.JPG

2021-10-15-balu-deck_joint-6.JPG

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5 hours ago, allweather said:

Well, that looks worse than I thought on the picture. Was one of the areas I opened up to take a closer look. Boat will be out of the water in a week and in a hangar where I'll remove everything fully and set things to dry for some time...

Misremembered how it was in part...

As is the "joint" is just an ugly line where the two paints meet. However the job will be slightly more work intense because in some areas the paint came off. So I'll be checking everywhere for any lose chips, cleaning up the area and repaint those while I am at it.

In most places however it is more a question of aesthetics than exposed laminate(second picture). So my current plan is to simply prep the surface and paint over, sand and polish to a mirror finish afterwards and leave things.

2021-10-15-balu-deck_joint-4.JPG

2021-10-15-balu-deck_joint-6.JPG

That bead of caulking is Uv burnt


the bead looks cosmetic 

painter like caulk beads… they hide the paint transition 

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3 hours ago, slug zitski said:

painter like caulk beads… they hide the paint transition

No kidding. I even get the feeling but really, really annoying on the boat since it does leave me with needing to fix it all...
Especially since when the yard did it we asked for it to be done properly but ended up with this. Took the price drop back then...

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